ServiceNow’s AI Control Tower and the Future of Workflows

[MUSIC] Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Tech Distropters podcast. Today we are delighted to have Amit Zaviri as our guest today. Amit is the president, chief product and chief operating officer at ServiceNow, where he leads the company's platform, products, engineering, cloud infrastructure, and user experience. Previously, he was vice president and general manager and head of platform for Google cloud for over five years, where he was responsible for product strategy, running engineering, streamlining, business operations, and building the business applications platform. Brack to that, Amit was a radical for over 24 years. On today's podcast, we'll focus on ServiceNow's platform innovation. It's emerging CRM practice and scaling AI products. Amit, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, thanks for having me on the run. So Amit, when we talk to investors who are new to the service now story, we put a lot of emphasis on how your products help enterprise in digitizing workflows. How do you explain the code business of ServiceNow when you meet somebody new to the story? Very good question, Aral. I think you look at ServiceNow. The kind of the operating system in terms of how you run your business processes across a company. So it's an AI platform for end-to-end digital transformation, with the 20 plus years of experience doing workflow automation. And what it means is that we are the system of action, where we can take any kind of request from a user, which they want to resolve, so we should then need some help, or they want to get something done. ServiceNow basically becomes that operating system, making that work happen across an enterprise. We basically connect every part of the business, end-to-end, we eat to west, as well as north to south, and allowing companies to run the business more efficiently, and automatically, in a way that they can get luck more out of the investment they might make in multiple systems. So we work across multiple systems in this heterogeneous environment, in an open platform way, and allowing companies to get benefits of everything they might want to do and operate the business more efficiently, as well. So it's really the system of engagement and action, which really makes a difference to make companies much more productive. So when we look at your financial information, you know, the product breakdown is in four main categories, technology, CRM and industry, code business and creator. Please tell us audience a little bit about what kind of processes are behind these categories. You guys, I think the way we think about a business is it mentioned earlier, it's a workflow and automation, and there are areas where we do very well to help companies automate those businesses like tech. So anything to do with IT operations, service management, security, CISO-related stuff as well, the workflow around that, in terms of how you automate those incident resolution, and change management through products like ITSM, ITOM, ITAM, and related capabilities, including things we're doing our risk and risk and security, is the tech workflow basically. The second area as you mentioned is the CRM business. And CRM for us is really helping customers manage the customer relationships for the end users. So CSM, customer service products, for field service management products, capabilities around sales, auto management for complex auto management kind of capabilities required, and recently we added a lot of capabilities on CPQ, config a price code. So any complex orchestration required to interact with customers and get them an auto, be customer resolution, maybe around auto management, as well as getting a code out to customer. We do that in the CRM part of our workflow. The third you talked about is the core business workflows, which is like digitizing internal operations, be like HR, finance, legal, and procurement, where it's streamlined enterprise-wide processes, like employee onboarding and lifecycle management. That's a third area. The creator, which is a big area for us, growth wise, because what it does is empower teams, as well as citizen developers to quickly build customers, using local tools like App Engine and Automation Engine on top of a platform. Just like what we do with our workflows, customers can build their own workflows on the platform, and millions of millions of workflows build on the creative platforms. That's a fourth area of offering. And associated with that, we have this underlying platform foundation around workflow data fabric, and connecting data together as well, which empowers a lot of this workflows as well. >> Yeah, I'm sure we're going to talk about some of these processes down in the discussion in a few minutes. But one of the most important things that I have seen since in the last two years or so is service now being one of the first companies to launch agent AI features in the code products. Now, is there a reason why you've been able to launch it at a faster pace and monetize it better than other infrastructure vendors? >> Yeah, for sure. So if you think of our business, as we connect various systems and automate business processes, a gen tick is a very, very important technology, which will allow us to automate those things even much more effectively. While you have dynamic workflows with some predictable outcomes, customers really win. So for us, AI has become the new UI in terms of how you connect all different business processes and allow you to make those value come out of it. Right, so what we have seen with our investment and the reason we have been doing a lot of work around our gen tick is that every customer I speak to are asking service now to come and help them think about where they should start with AI, how do they should adopt AI inside the businesses, and what are the use cases which make sense for these agente capabilities. And given that our platform has been this one platform with all the capabilities required integrated from ground up. So AI is part of a foundation. It's not something you put on the side. Customers really appreciate that capability because every workflow they're running are getting AI enabled to our platform. So the agente platform has been able to be able to monetize very well because we able to create value instantly people are able to get ROI. They are able to use this one platform without having to redo everything again and again for agente and modernize their environment very quickly through the same service now platform they were used to for many years and they know it works for them. So that's why we're seeing a very very good adoption rate as well as a partnership with the customers as they go down the AI journey. We're making sure that we keep them ahead of the game because of the investments we made in a platform and what that's why customers are willing to invest in service now agente AI now and we build out the full stack around this agente OS we call it in the platform itself. So you know one of the examples I gave people just when they are trying to understand the service now story is you know let's imagine that you know somebody is being onboarded in a company you may use the work day platform to get all their you know information in the system but through the service now platform it's connected to let's say you know the back and inventory system or any other you know third party so you know then you can basically say whether the new laptop is coming in the badge request etc. In this example and this is how I've explained kind of the old service now product but in when I throw a gentick on it what other things can it do to enhance productivity? Yeah I think quite a few things right you point out already right I think whenever somebody is getting onboarded or they need help you're not touching one system or rather you're touching many many different systems right and service now has been very good at orchestrating those things if you look at a gentry it really applies very well or the work we do because it's an orchestration of reasoning capability we can bring into that and what it can do now when we layer that into our it put it in a platform and layer the workflow on it we are able to now want automate them much more effectively but make it very dynamic as well so that when the business process what happens a lot of times what companies do is that they might they might digitize things but they take the old world and apply it into the new world with the same the barriers of improvements you don't really get much out of it other than we might have more let's humiliate ball what would a gentry be able to do is as we connect all these workflows we optimizing those things we able to understand what the user intends are and then connect different systems in there but also guarantee outcomes because we have 20 years of workflow data we can compare against an outcome and a gentick system is giving and we give you this outcome which is really finishing the task for you fulfilling versus just giving you information back so when a user says I want to go on a lead can you tell me what the policies they eventually do want to do something with the policy so we able to understand an intent and a gentick allows us to do that versus somebody saying now I know what I need to do now I'll go and do it myself we take that barrier out and employees productivity goes out the enterprise and goes up and the enterprise productivity goes up quite drastically and then you layer this idea of security compliance trust and safety on that so now you guarantee that what you're doing is going to be compliant with what you allow to do so we're putting a lot of intelligence into that workflows into the business processes while we automating it we also dynamically changing them as we learn more through a gentick processes as well so this you know this begs another question is a lot of companies are you know piloting or pushing out similar capabilities or it is them marketing it whether you know if I have a chatbot system not a chatbot but let's say communications whether it's teams or Slack or Zoom and you know I'm using it throughout the company to interact and I ask the same thing to the HR person that says well you know when can I get a leave or can I get an employment verification letter and they're saying well our system can do that too so is there a reason why an enterprise or customer would come to you versus you know another system of record such as an SAP worked there for a Salesforce or for that matter a white you know box agent that is completely different things so what is the value proposition why should I go with the service now compared to some of these other third parties yeah no you're a person right I think everybody is talking about some of these things today and it is confusing customers you're a person right that it sounds similar but I tell you what the differences are one we have been always in this business of integrating various things together and looking at it end to end we are not a verticalized application or a functional app like so right so a lot of this system or record or different applications whatever may be the case they're doing AI agent they're talking about genting but they're talking about that for their own process typically it's really encompassing what they can automate in their own part of the world what we do is we coordinate across multiple parts of the world inside a company so difference for us is that we when a when a user asks for as I talked about like employ on voting he's cutting across seven different systems so maybe can different system depending on the company some companies might be cutting across 15 different systems because you might need to coordinate and be able to cross various different data sources as well as business processes none of the other vendors are talking about because they can't solve the problem they never have to solve that problem they're automating their part of the world without automating the part of the whole enterprise world so we are this enterprise orchestration layer versus an application orchestration only right that's a big difference second when you compare to some of these chat bots and things like that they're more information retrieval systems so they can give you information very quickly but they are not actioning frameworks they don't do this they're not system of action so once you find out what to do now it's your job to figure out how to get it done then they land up going to us of course sometimes we're going to individual pieces and becomes a survival chair which is very painful experience even though it's automated in parts of the world but it's not automated and to end and that's where the differentiation comes up with us is that we can do that end to end when we talk about East to West that's really going across and not to start when we're cutting across every different personas and we touch every part of the department so that's how we build a product and that's when we talk about a genetic foundation we build it's AI agents for RSTAP or AI agents integrating with other AI agents agent fabric to connect all this data together then we have the orchestration engine which is managing the interaction with various systems and doing the planning and reasoning and getting you the outcome and understanding the intent and then AI control tower which is managing all your AI interfaces and capabilities so that you can have a lifecycle management trust security safety compliance so we've been very holistic in approach versus talking about hey I automate my part of the world which is might be nice no doubt is valuable but it's not enough to really talk about agenting and that's why we call it about multi agentic systems is what we really operate at versus pieces of it. Are you seeing any backlash from the you know systems of records to make it difficult for you to access the the data that resides in their system because now you know before it was nice that you know work they didn't worry about it I'm I'm just throwing work they out I'm not saying that they are giving you a hard time but you know now you're doing a lot more with it and that could threaten some of the you know system of records out there. No I think I'm sure there will be some thinking across the board but so far we've not because it's mostly driven by customers then by the individual vendors right and a lot of the data in each of these applications that customer data so they have access we were accessing through API as well custom connectors before now we accessing that and we have done direct relationship with a lot of this companies with their AI agent integration right so we do in sort of APIs in some cases we're doing agent to agent integration there are lots of standards coming out with they are part of we are part of a two-way we have the founding member of the a two-way Linux foundation offering out there so there are a lot of technologies which makes sense for us to do this interoperability they might be some restrictions we might run into but so far I think we've been able to work very closely with all these different information systems out there which is owned by customers directly because eventually they have access to it and they use us as the way to orchestrate on it and I think none of those system of records or applications are losing their value because they are doing something specific for their own world and that's what they were doing before as well it's not like they were not doing that what we're giving them is that instead of replacing those things we are getting more value out of those things as well so I think there is this coexistence which is I'm sure there'll be some vendors as you heard some of them who said you know what we will not let customers access data through third party and they're preventing I think those will disappear over time because that is not the right way to run an enterprise business because more you close yourself less valuable you become to an enterprise end of the day enterprises have to or everybody will have multiple systems this is just a reality of the enterprise is never been able to be clean and thought and we understand that reality and we want to work in open ecosystem for that are there any industries that are embracing agents faster than the others any use cases you can share yeah I think definitely industries which are seeing a lot of need for automation and better outcomes and customer satisfaction I'm telling you about a few of them I mean telecommunication definitely AI is the catalyst for telpos next-era growth we're seeing a unified AI ready foundation build we have many many telco customers today I'm going to give you an example bell and service now we've been integrating 8000 data silos for them working with Bell the unifying the CRM and field service for 22 million customers and empowering 12000 field technicians around that huge amount of savings deflecting support calls virtual repair issues automating 90% of this patch related task they have saved around 500k per customer calls with AI powered virtual repair services we delivered with service now so a lot of these things are starting to where they start with one thing it becomes very fast growth and Bell is a very typical example of other telpos who are going through the same thing but they have a large call volume the customers calling them issues they might want to do and be to be side or be to seaside they want to deflect the calls and support calls so they can indeed with customer demand they also now starting to think about how do it prove customer satisfaction and a genetic really makes that happen because the speed you can resolve things makes sense for that so that's one in public sector again huge amount as you know a lot of them are going through re-rallage and of how they automate how they become more efficient mean no doubt a lot of the Dodge work was happening in the petal government today in the US side but across the board we are becoming kind of the AI control tower for oversight and the broad IT system adoption we recently have this GSA 1.0 agreement where they are getting access to our technologies at a pre-negotiated icing and we're seeing now public sector growth go up very fast we're seeing a lot of federal agencies standardize on service now because when they reduce their staffing they need to automate and they need to connect various things together and service now becomes the kind of that core way of doing that so we resonate very much with what they're trying to solve for so that's happening we have a large federal agency serving billions of citizens on that one federal defense agency now is using service service now AI agents to automate the contract reviews she line up rules and those kind of processes so I think across the board every look at telecommunications federal we're seeing something with CRM use cases and secure insurance banking which is automated like bank for day and the test during the Brazil is using us there for watch career assurance secure and in risk again that is a big area because nowadays with AI investment companies are doing as well as the processes becoming connecting so many different things together they really want to make sure compliance is there security risk is managed some more company is a big adopter of AI platform for transforming security operations we become that whole incident management a product for them for managing any fault negative positives or any incidents they might have inside the company at the CISO level so a lot of good examples out there a lot of use cases emerging and all of them are basically trying to get that going quickly and with us see I mean something just came to my mind about the the government and anything either state or federal a large portion of the legacy tech still resides in some of these organizations so you know and again you used to work for Oracle so people soft as there's no you know stranger to you but if if a department still has an old on-premise system do they have to go first to the cloud in order to you know get some of these benefits or you know can you automate those processes even with some of the legacy you know tech frameworks well harpsine they don't have me this is we would interoperate with pretty much any IT investment company has our department has done so on-prem for sure we have hundreds of customers of a thousand so I have on-prem implementation and those applications we integrate with we provide adapters connectivity but also ability to connect and manage interaction with those applications mainframes also similarly by the way service now does provide flexibility of deployment so our product can run in cloud of course we do have customers running on hyper-steeler as well as our cloud or as well sovereign cloud so you might have your own dedicated in mind plus on-premise as well so we do provide this we do understand enterprise system landscape is very broad and very fragmented and we have to kind of meet customers where they are versus forcing our view on everything so it is it is always about interacting with existing investment customers and make but do I need to upgrade in the long run in order to get some benefits away I or it doesn't really matter this is the good thing about it today you can probably get even more benefits because another day the orchestration is happening outside with applications so as long as we've access to that application I we can read right or understand that my data in there we are able to now orchestrate the business process and that's where you don't even have to modernize everything to get the value of AI you're not saying that to get your application with AI enabled you have to move away and get to a new version many cases a lot of other vendors we pointed out earlier when they've been doing this AI native future plans they're saying moving my application to the next generation to get the AI benefits we don't have to do that with us right because I can still integrate with your old environment to APIs or direct connectors and orchestration the AI agents are happening at service now level not inside each of the applications it's a very good point I think that's a very good way to think about it I'm glad you clarified this because why this is one of the reasons I've been telling people why your growth rate is still above 20% in the current environment while some of the other world you know is still now we are we are moving into you know low double digit to even high single digit growth rates for the software industry so thank you for that clarification now assist has seen a fair strong adoption in a very short period of time now again are there any customers or verticals that are embracing this head of the curve and the second part of that is do you see any common threads whether they are going to be your ITSM customer item customers HR customers anything any color around that no it's see we have seen exceptional traction with the purpose cues the now assist capabilities where we bringing the now system AI just directly to the core workflows right I mean no doubt we will we are seeing a user amount of interest with ITSM given that we have a large install base of ITSM customer but it seems to be applied to pretty much every part of our workflow CSM because customers want to make sure the end users are getting ability to automate their request deflect some of the calls as well as answer the information quickly HR because again employee interaction now is becoming across various different departments versus saying only I want to now interact with IT here finance here separately in sort of that you try and bring it together one unified experience through HR now assist and pro class capabilities so all of these things have been growing very fast some of them are growing at 50% water or work water and today 18 of our top 20 enterprise deals include now assist and pro class products so this is always showing that we are adding value to pretty much every customer by giving them the capability to get automation with AI and now assist as kind of the foundational piece of it we are in the genetic as part of the now assist and customers like X on mobile for example are doing things with now assist AI and AI agents across all of the employee experiences streamlining the operations and improve responsiveness for all the users as well and cost savings are the big benefit of course but productivity uplifts for a larger org and easy access to information instead of very through fragmented way to find that information has been that is quickly becoming the default choice for a largest enterprise customers and I think they're very very excited about what we will deliver there and we continue to invest aggressively there to differentiate ourselves as well as help customers get value quickly yeah one of the things I tell people about service now is very few companies where the net new ACB comes from the existing customer base that usually talks a lot about the product that their company selling so when you come to something like an hour assist give us an example of what a typical purchase would be like would you know somebody like a 5% of your installed base within a company embrace it and then go over time or is it going to be more broad based and then they buy little packets and then they up skill is you know give us how you have your typical buying goes into it you know I just like our customer base is varied I think these use cases and how they get adopted and we're varied as well right so they are they are companies we talk to who start top down thinking about we want to have an AI foundational pieces built out and we want to really transform the company across the board and that would then be a full initiative where we would have provide them the now assist and the pro-proskate entities across all of the different environments they have so it's a little more broader conversation but that's why we as I said we see very large deals which cut across all those departments and different projects and becomes this foundational piece for everybody to interact through our now assist right so those are pretty the last transformation definitely happening a lot some of them start with a departmental use case like could be say I want to do this by T I want to do it for HR I might want to do it for finance and then then we start showing them our use case and how do we quickly get that going with the product helping them understand the value they get generated and then it's usually start scaling out from there as well so we see in mixture of things it depends on where the conversation starts typically and then the practitioners or the owners of those applications or departments then start saying you know what I want to expose this to multiple users and it starts blowing very fast once you start seeing one or two use cases because it is very valuable and very useful for companies to get on that journey. You know a few minutes ago you alluded to this AI control tower so please tell us a little bit about it what it is any in examples you can share of actual you know use cases right now. Yeah I think as I said you know the cost when every customer I speak to one thing no doubt AI is talk of mine but second thing that's the worry they have is how do we manage it how do we get a visibility how do we get control how do we guarantee it's secured how do we guarantee this is compliant so this is talk of mine for everybody and when they start talking to individual groups about like they might be using some AI technology through somewhere they might be having AI coming out of a particular application and then they're talking to us for connecting all these things together they want to have visibility so when we launch the AI control tower the idea was that today you know there's a lot of software assets and hardware assets service now manages for every enterprise. We have a product called CMDB which is giving you access to all of your assets and tracking of it and a life cycle around it so we're taking AI agents and every AI system and also after discovering and putting it into the CMDB so that is easy to find easy to track easy to manage the life cycle of it and then we build this AI control tower which gives you full control through a centralized environment of all AI capabilities you have inside the company not just service now delivery it could be from third party it could be something you build in the house we give it a full life cycle management of it and that is really really valuable because you want to make sure you can upgrade you can get cost management you want to make sure that you can do reporting for your compliance or you audit you can turn things off you can do a lot of other things which might be required through a control plane and that's what AI control tower allows you to do as a company and we launched this thing a few months ago and we hit our numbers for the whole year in like a few months because I need to apply like every we're going to get to this normal customers we got that in too much because it just resonates with everyone we speak to and they want some neutral third party kind of looking across all these things and working heterogeneous their process which is what we did for applications now we're doing that for AI as well and it builds up on couple of the investment they might have made with CMDB and other things like that so it's very natural progression as well. It's a lot of debate going on the industry right now a punked investor about the future of the SaaS industry and the software industry especially given the pressure on seed growth you know what's your view how the world will evolve you know seed plus usage just because you know if you're giving the amount of productivity some of the software agents are giving yeah you're not going to be able to sell that many seeds down there. No you're right I think we have to keep on rethinking how we price back here and I will monetize that's just a natural a natural thing to do on a regular basis and I think that's definitely getting more interesting as we think about how the world will evolve from you with humans and AI agents working in conjunction and the numbers might change depending on what customers are going to invest in they might be less human agents have even more AI agents or whites who are depending on whatever balancing outcome please do. Good thing is that we are very well positioned because we do have a approach of hybrid hybrid pricing model so there is this idea of giving you flexibility as a customer where you can adopt various things on the same throughout product skews while we give them predictability as well so that they know how much they're going to pay and they don't get this service fights so I think it comes with the idea is there's a base subscription which comes with the users as well as some capacity for AI and if you overexcede the AI capacity you can buy more service pack more AI capacity pass but the subscription gives you some capabilities instantly without having to worry about spikes and that means you have predictability but you have flexibility when you go run out of things you can go more get more capacity as you need to as well and so if the human agents goes down that means they're going to use more AI agents they can balance that and we can are we able to very well monetize customers appreciate that they have the flexibility and so win win and the simplicity the choice and the flexibility has really worked out so far we have not really had any issue or any concern for my customers this model is now being copied by more and more vendor because they're realizing that you have to have this hybrid structure and it's very similar to what eventually even hyper-scale has got to right you have commit structure you burn down nobody does swipe people credit card out pay as you go and enterprise and in maybe a few people do but in general that's not the preferred model because as CIOs and CFOs and all want to manage what to do the cost while they want to dial to don't really use it and this value I'll use more so we're giving them that kind of opportunity with the way we do our pricing and the hybrid pricing has resonated quite well and please remind me it is subscription plus usage right because you just yeah that's I think one of the things I tell people and which is you know I'm not that better shown it but so much going on right now even subscription with comes with some usage it's not like the start with zero so you're not doing different at time right so they can get going this value and then they get more more usage they go up on that so I think it has worked very well to go out no fair I agree with you what are customers you know saying about the use of you know third-party models into your products you know how about you accommodating them what do you think is the future going to look like and they're over there no just like I said service now for us is very important that we are open platform right and customer choices kind of the foundation of how we think about our technology stack and how we deliver products similarly thing with third-party foundational models we have support today and we give customer choice where we have open source model like Ms. Troll and Lama while we also have the front-end models like from OpenAI from Entropy from Google available as part of a product today customers can choose the default settings for few of them but what we do is we test all of them we prompt a junior them to make sure that outcome is guaranteed and then customer has choices on the same just like we did with the hyper scale are we given the choice of any model they want to choose to we also have our own domain specific model if they want to run it in an environment they want to manage as well and then we're doing work with Nvidia Nemo microservices to provide other other capabilities which brings in their model then data secure securely and at the central customer control so all of these things are really the idea is that let's make it easy make it capable and give you the options to adopt anything you want while we engineer the product to work the best with all these options out available and as it is we are just not a lot of times people talk about large-time with models like we use it and we build something around it we add so much IP on top of it the models have one small part of everything we're doing across the border that's why we'd be able to give large-time systems to customers. You know with one of the things I like about your financial disclosure during earnings is that you give headcount by different departments and gives me you know the opportunity to understand where some of the benefits are you know coming but you know in your view how's AI helping service now's productivity internally which business areas are you seeing the biggest benefits? Of course we've been very aggressive in making sure we adopt everything we build right so we have this program called Now and Now and similarly on the genetic side and the AI side we have deployed our agenda capable these across every department so in IT for example 90% percent of standard employee software provisioning is now handled entirely by AI agents zero human test required right we reduced our load on IT service decks by roughly 40% fleeing human teams to focus more complex issues and there's innovation we deflecting a lot of those calls letting do self-service and really making customer experience better so our customer support, agente work workforce results automatically 80% of the low complexity cases end to end and we've been able to keep our staffing level manageable while we are managing more and more use a more and more case volume so the customer satisfaction goes up our retention rates goes up because they're not over well while we are solving some of these things same thing was security risk productivity has gone up over 50% for server patch management the developer productivity is going out sellers are getting better prepped 40 to 40% faster when they're getting ready for the meeting for the information we can get them with the customer 360 we build out an agente as the interface for it and they also know how much they're going to get paid on the deed instead of worrying about waiting and figuring it out right so it says driven 350 million dollars of enterprise value across our organization large cost savings of course and it's really the job satisfaction as well as the ability for customers to feel better when they use the products and get support from us so we are we're definitely making sure that that becomes core of how we are on an operate and we're not going to do grand newest numbers the hey we we fired this maybe though those are not how we think about it is really how we automate how we improve customer service and how do we really give value to our customers by making sure employees feel productive and they feel excited and empowered to run and operate the business yeah I mean let's spend the last few minutes talking about your emerging CRM business there's a lot of chatter in the market about it you know to start the discussion could you please just give it a overview of what kind of products these are and how do they you know you could say you know blend with your core platform which is leading you to have some success in the area yeah now CRM is a very exciting space for us and we have been really increasing our investment and getting very very good traction and I'll tell you what we're doing there right one strategy is very simple we want to unify front and middle and back off his operations I have to deliver seamlessly i power customer experiences and the way to think about this is I was mentioning earlier it's like any complex orchestration any kind of workflow which is outcome driven not just information retrieval we do very like information retrieval of course we can do but that's like everybody can do it what we do amazing is really finishing the task and that is where it's really the CSM customer service management right you're automating and personalizing services across channels and it could be multi-channel multi-lingual multi-modal and we're making sure AI driven connecting with various different systems together and handling that request from customer and solving that issue for them so that's one fsm same idea extending service to physical operations for field service management scheduling making sure they finish the task they got the customer issue resolved and how do you do the pros loop around that that's another area sales and auto management this is where we're streamlining coating pricing fulfillment so again a very complex kind of thing you require multiple rules reviews complex kind of bomb creation order order delivering or also fulfillment on a code or whatever the case so we touch those kind of processes and make them manageable make them predictable and orchestrate those pieces which is connecting to various people and various systems together so that's kind of the core of it we are not and in CRM is a huge market right we are really focused on few areas of it be it customer service so service market is a huge biggest cam inside CRM as you know orchestration of customer orders CPQ and auto management and fsm those are the areas we continue build out because we have done those jobs before for many other areas and this is why this is one of the fastest growing area for us yeah you know when when I've tried to explain the service now's product on service management to people the example I usually give is a hypothetical example of you know you're going to a car dealership with some issue you know let's say you got to get your tires changed and the person sitting there they have a software product over there that they have to you know enter the ticket all the details and then based on what kind of service it is the service now product is going to go out to let's say the find out in the supply chain system whether that product is still there then it's going to get connected to the accounts receivables and the whole thing so you are actually you know that's a net new market for you but at the same time for this particular car dealership they're not getting red red red red of the core back off a system that they are using so in a case they're spending more on service management you're not replacing and ripping that old vendor please tell me if I'm not thinking of this the right way or do you replace the vendor no and it depends right so I think some customers are consolidating the CSM system so they might have augmented pieces depending on subsidiaries depending on different departments and different parts of the business so even if you look at this author of example you're talking about dealers and other things like that everybody might be using pieces which from different providers they might be some consolidation happening underneath the covers when they start putting and the reason they start with us in many cases is to first get the orchestration and the whole end-to-end thing working then it's easy for them to replace some of those foundational pieces where we eventually become data sources and then the data migrates into service now wherever it is so if there's a replacement plane many cases so in the CSM especially in that area we see many customers replace over time in some cases quickly in some cases after the data is migrated and they moved all the things over across to service now as well so there is a cost saving element of replacing and there's a cost savings of kind of perpetrating and modernizing as well as now having one integrated system for employee as well as customer because this case management and underlying technology which we do for case routing and resolution is the same technology we also use for IT as seminars so customers can now standardize on one versus having fragmented different technology status is painful expensive to maintain and upgrade and things like that so that's an huge amount of IT cost reduction from there so they might not get completely rid of every licenses but the maintenance the delivery the tracking all of that can be really safe so we've seen that happen with many customers where they do that as a journey you know better the same time you know you have all these systems of record that have been placed both on the front of a side and they're you know let's say customer service side are there cases where actually replacing those cloud vendors or these are just homegrown systems that you're replacing yeah we've seen that happen I mean we have quite a few customers in the B2C side and all where they might have been using other legacy vendor for the customer service as they modernize those contracts come for a renewal they're replacing them some of them be also provide a VL program called now next year right which allows customers to migrate those licenses to us and reduce those costs on the other vendors and we take over that and help them move to the modern platform so they are they are reducing that is a replacement CRM I think is more than in the other area especially customer service we do see replacement they have me good so you know well almost coming out of time thanks so much let me ask you just one final questions you know what's your view on industry specific agents down the road and also what kind of innovations are you most keen on you know for the next 12 months yes good as I think on the industry specific agents I'm sure I think we also build and I think I do believe they're going to be use cases where they're going to be domain specific things you need to do by industry or whatever it's they will be specialized offerings out there in the industry which are there's solving a problem of particular industry very very specifically we integrate with them as nest needed but we also have data model by industry today right so we do that for healthcare for finance financial services telecommunication public sector what we're doing with retail are very specific data models we build in a platform and our workflows understand that and work in that environment for the customer in that industry so we do believe that has to happen because you are doing something specific for their environment and their use cases using a platform as well while we also have very very convoices of integrating with other industry solutions which they might be using for very specific specialized use cases over so that's how we think about it we still focus on industries and we build particularize capabilities for that and integration and in terms of the other question about what I'm excited about I think this I talked to you about middle-more-around-risk management security that is a big area which we have to solve we have been putting a lot of investment we've seen a lot of good outcomes from there but there's a lot more opportunity to do things there enterprise so softness that sounds sometimes boring but if you don't get this thing right all other bells and whistles are completely useless Bayeye control tower we are very excited about I'm very excited about what we're doing in that CI I'm spaced with YCI conversational capability by directional multilingual real time you will see a lot more of that capabilities now been delivered with our CSM product and at the same products as was employee products for case manage so automated autonomous IT in a way like autonomous case resolution where I could call in and I'm talking to agent and they're filing the cases that resolving it without any human touch so autonomous IT is a big area autonomous security CSM with voice and employee engagement with voice so I'm pretty excited about what we are doing across the board and this open ecosystem we are building I think is really resonating the partnerships we are built and the point innovation we are doing now it's creating new new ideas and we continue to deliver we just have a big release from our code Zurich a lot of automated application work for do up and we have a build agent we have quite a few other things which we're delivering against that as well so great I'm with we want to thank you for joining the podcast today thank you for having me we love the conversation thank you again we also want to thank the audience for tuning in if you'd like the episode please leave a review and subscribe to listen to future episodes with marquee disruptors of the tech industry also if you'd like to learn more about our research check the Bloomberg terminal at bi go and we also want to thank our episode producer De Dittia this is your host Anurag Rana signing off