Selling My $22M Company Didn’t Fix My Life…It Exposed Everything Wrong With It

Women are doing a disservice to themselves to not talk about money. There are formulas, there are secrets to success, and we're not sharing them because we're so nervous that there's not enough space for everyone. The build real wealth, it's not going to come from your 95. What I really learned about money was a few different things. Jacqueline Johnson, are you ready to get hot, my rich? Let's do it. Part of the success was our momentum. We have $75 million cash offers to buy the business. The wire hits my account. I should be the happiest person on earth, and my life was a mess. I'm not happy. I need to step away from everything. I got divorced. I had to reinvent my entire life. And that took me really stepping back from work to figure that out. Do you think that you can now successfully build a business without sacrificing every single thing in your personal life? That's such a tough one. No. You are very transparent around numbers. Where did that come from? I was bought out for millions of dollars of that small $12,000 check I wrote. I wanted to build the Disney Four ambitious women. And I think not raising capital stifled that. We hear the opposite so often. I would love for you to expand on why you regret not raising venture capital money. Okay, well, you were recently diagnosed with breast cancer this past year. It is not a symptom of breast cancer to have pain in your boob. It was my body giving me a wake-up call to go get this mammogram. The body keeps a score. I definitely feel like the years I didn't pay attention to any of that stuff caught up with me. What is a piece of advice you have for someone listening to this that could save their life? In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Jacqueline Johnson, are you ready to get hot smart rich? Let's do it. Are you excited to be here? I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited that roles are reversed this time. How fun. So we did your podcast. I was on. I was like one of my first podcasts almost like two and half three years ago. Yeah, really? Yeah. It's so fun. And now it's like second nature. It's my whole life. I love it. Exactly. I know. I know. And you were not just starting out, but I remember started following you in like 2020 when you were doing a lot of the angel investing. And I was like, I love this because there's not enough of this. And I loved following your journey. And it's so cool. Let's see how far you've come. Well, I can't wait. We're going to talk about all things angel investing. But I can't have you in my chair without starting because this episode is actually going to come out around near solutions. And I think you are kind of the queen of starting over. January 15th was actually the day three years ago that I quit vaping smoking. And that was like a huge thing for me, where I think this time of year, everyone's thinking through like, how can they be the best version of themselves? And I think even since that time, since I was on your show, there's been like a complete different Jacqueline. Yes. How do you feel sitting here today based on who you were when we sat down last time? I took some big swings in my personal life that I hadn't done in a while. I turned 40, which is huge milestone. I left Los Angeles after 16 years. I moved to New York City. I mean, there's a million different things. But going into 2026, I feel so good. Like very rooted in like, I made the right decision because it was a gamble. When do you know if it's time to make a change? Like, when you decided to leave Los Angeles, what was that moment that it was like, yep, this is the decision that I'm making? I look back at my time in LA and there was definitely signs of me being depressed. I was going to bed super early, like 7 p.m., waking up, not leaving my house. Like, and I don't think I realized it at the time, but I was like, oh, I was like, not in a great place. And I didn't register it because things were so good in my life. Nothing was changing. And I needed change. What do you mean when you say things were so good in my life? I mean, I had amazing friends. I have a great house. I had everything I could possibly want. The checklist, the checklist. Yeah, the on paper, good life, you know, as it were. We get really comfortable in our lives. And, you know, it's really hard to be like, I'm going to change everything and go back to the drawing board at 40. To be like, I need to make friends. I need to figure out new things. I have to like, reinvent my life, as it were. And getting there, I realized, like, I'm actually so energized by meeting new people and like being out in the world. And really just discovering new things is such a huge part of my life. A lot of people said, I mean, like, couldn't you have done that in LA? Like, why don't you just move to the west side? And I think it was like, it had to be more of a fundamental change where I needed to be out of my car, really. And like, in the city streets. And there was a very visceral moment. My friend and I were, we were meeting a friend at 4 p.m. But it was too early to meet her. And it was like 2 p.m. on a Saturday, pouring rain in New York City. And I was like, I guess, let's just go to a bar and get a drink. Like, while we're waiting to meet her, it was a Saturday. It was like, not a weekday. And we walk into the bar. And when I tell you, it was packed. This just feels so alive. And I felt like, for a few different reasons, one, it was like, dating in New York was much easier and much more convenient. And there's more opportunity there. And I also felt like just the city is so alive with business and commerce and everything that's happening. It made me feel alive again. And so I was very much like, I can do this. I can reinvent myself. And like, worse comes to worse. It's one year. I said one year lease. And I was like, I can just see what happens, put it out into the universe. And like, the rest is history, really. You mentioned dating in New York. So when you moved there, you were single. Yes. And you had just gotten divorced. It's been a minute. I got three years. I got about three years. How did you know that you were ready to date after your divorce? I definitely wasn't for a while. I think I needed to really process the relationship that I had. We were together for 10 years. It's a very long time. Learning to be alone was very hard. And then that took at least like six months to a year. I think also figuring out how to date. Again, after not dating since I was 27, which like so much has changed. I was like, oh, we're in love. Like, I was like, this is perfect every day. My friends were like, no, that's not happening. We're at work. That's not it. And I think I had to go through the ups and downs of dating and really kind of find myself. I got a dating coach, which I actually loved. And it was such a game changer for me because it really opened my eyes to my own stuff. Right of how I was approaching it. What I wanted. How I was acting while dating. One of the things that I talk with my friend Morgan Debon about, she's the founder of Blavidy. She's awesome. And she moved out of San Francisco to Nashville. Kind of similarly like, she's like, I wanted date. I wanted kids. I knew I wanted this life. And she was like, I had to get out of my mailness. Like, because growing, growing cool to pay and like being a businesswoman for so long, it's like, you're in your masculine. All day, you're making decisions. You're managing people. You're figuring it out. You're navigating, you know, the road of entrepreneurship. And so being like soft and feminine, it's like, you have to flip a literal switch in your brain. And I hadn't done that for 10 years. And so I had to kind of unlearn the bossiness and, you know, the intensity and all those things. So it was a personal journey as much as it was figuring out how to show up and dating. It's so interesting. I talk about that all the time. Like, I was very similar. And I think I was attracting a totally different type of person because I was so in my masculine. What is something that surprised you learning about yourself through that dating coach? I definitely had an anxious style for many, many, many, many years. And I had to learn how to become more secure. I think just by nature of the relationship I was in, it was a very anxiety-induced situation. And so I had to learn how to become secure again, which has nothing to do with your partner, has everything to do with yourself of like, how do you show up? How do you want to show up? How do I knock in a situation where I feel like that again? And so I think I just learned a lot about attachment styles and how I wanted to show up. And what I really wanted in my next partner, I remember like the first question she asked me when we met was what are your wants and needs in a relationship. And I had no idea. I was like, I just want someone, I don't, what do you mean? And she's like, you need to write this down and live by this. Like, is this person delivering on the wants and needs you have? And I did that exercise and I really like, workshopped it and figured it out. And like, in dating, it's helped me so much to be like, oh, this is not something that that person is going to provide. And therefore, I don't think it's a good fit for me moving forward. And you have to put parameters around, you know, and boundaries into what you're looking for. Because if you're just going out searching for the thing, you'll never find it. For someone that feels anxious and dating or in previous relationships, what are some tangible things that they can take to also feel more secure before they're ready to meet someone? I think you have to understand what your triggers are. Like, that's the first thing. Is it someone not texting back fast enough? Is it not making a plan to follow up? And like, also be able to not be afraid to speak up about what you need? Everyone's like, you got to play the game. You got to go quiet. You got to do all these things. And there is truth to that. But I think also for me, I know I'm not that type of person that's good at those things. I like to be very honest about how I'm feeling. But also just fair. Like, hey, this is my style of communication. This is like, what makes me feel good? Like, what's your style? Like, really just having those conversations up front? I think we'll just eliminate so much stress down the line. But also, I think behavior is a language. And if someone is acting a certain way, you can't change them. Like, and I think once you understand that, and they're showing up in a certain way, and you're like, no, no, no, no. But if we just hang out one more time and I try to make them feel like this, then it's all going to work. And it's like, no, Pay attention. to the behavior. They're saying something by the way they're acting and that should just be your indicator. And being able to say no and walk away and be like, not for me, I'm good is the most empowering thing you can do as a woman in dating and a man for that matter. But like I think for me, when I learned that and was able to right away be like, oh, not for me and be able to walk away was the most empowering thing that made me feel so secure to myself. But it's so interesting to hear about you talking and saying things like I was anxious attached and now I'm secure because at the time you had already sold your business for $22 million, you had sold your house for a few million dollars. Like, why do you think that you weren't that same secure person in dating that you were maybe when you were running these businesses? I think that my professional life was extremely successful and my personal life was in shambles for 10 plus years. I always had the mentality when I sell the company, everything will be fine. When I sell the company, I'll be happy. When I sell the company, I'll have the house. When I sell the company, my marriage will get better. I was maniacally focused on the business and the business was going great. In 2018, we had multiple deals to buy the company. They ended up falling through for whatever reasons. 2019 are best year ever. 2020 Q1, we have $75 million cash offers to buy the business. We're going through diligence. Q1, absolutely crushing it. COVID hits. That was such a blow to me personally and professionally because obviously it's an events business. It's COVID. I was scrambling just like every other CEO, small business owner, to be like, what is happening? How do we maneuver and change? How do we make this work? How do we also survive and live as humans? There was just so much. We ended up pivoting and it was actually quite successful for us during COVID considering. At the end of the year when private equity came knocking, it felt like, for me, I was ready. I was so burnt out and beaten down. I just knew for my own sanity, I had to do this. We ended up doing the deal. By all accounts, I should be the happiest person on earth. My life was a mess. Six to eight months after that, I stepped back. At that point, I went to run a fun, so I just kept going and then I stepped down from that. Basically, I was like, I need to step away from everything because I'm not happy. I got divorced. It was crazy because to your point on paper, it should be like, great, you're living your best life. I realized, no, that wasn't going to fix everything actually. It makes it 10 times worse. I spent a lot of time unpacking, what do I want my life to look like moving forward? How do I start to create that life? That took me really stepping back from work to figure that out because I could have thrown myself into a million more businesses and situations and said yes to everything. I didn't for a full year. I remember waking up and being like, I've no emails. No one cares about where I am or what I'm doing. I have no team. I have no nothing. I can go to the grocery store in my pajamas at 1130 and come home and just cook and hang and watch bad TV and like everything's fine. I had to experience that and just live in that quiet for a while until I was able to build it back up and start to enjoy it again and figure out who am I without creating cultivate? Who am I without a thousand emails or people wanting to speak on stage? Do I like that person? What is that person like? It was a really challenging year and also really rewarding. How did you feel when you had no emails and you felt like no one cared? Sad and weird and empty. It's a very strange thing to sell a business that's so tied to you professionally, even if it isn't your name, right? And obviously you're building very similarly with a hot smart rich. But no matter what you do, that company is inextricably tied to you. So when people were disappointed by something or didn't love the way that this was going or whatever, like I would get those emails and those texts and I couldn't disassociate from it. Like I was like I care so much still and yet I'm not a part of this. And I think I had to really try to embrace that this was no longer my life. But also like it is hard to when people you start to feel irrelevant and not part of the conversation. But also you feel this massive weight off your shoulders. The pressure of building is intense. No matter if you're a content creator, if you're a CEO of a massive company, like that pressure exists and not feeling that for a full year, I feel like I reset my entire nervous system in a way. Looking back at that experience, do you think that you can now successfully build a business without sacrificing every single thing in your personal life to get to the level that people like you and I expect? No, I think that to some degree, there's always going to be sacrifices me. I think it's very possible to build a business and a life that you love that is very balanced in all these things. But if you want to build a huge brand with lofty goals and our venture backed, like you have to be obsessive about your business. And it never turns off because we live in a 24/7 world. Part of the success of creating cold fate was our momentum. Every single day we were launching something. We had a new collaboration. We had another event. We had this person. It was so successful because it was such a roller coaster. I was watching actually the Oningman hat and like on the plane with Ryan Sirhan. And he was saying like, I can't stop because if I stop, everything falls apart. And the person who was talking to me was like, no, there will always be things. But I kind of disagree. I do think when you're running at that pace and the business is running alongside you and you're just seeing that success in that momentum, if you take a break, it will stop. And like I do feel that way. And I think it's unfortunate, but it is the reality of the world we live in. It is speed. It is first to market. It's all those things. And so it does require that. Do I think you need to do that? No. Like can you have a great business that pays you really well where you can pick your kids up from school and go to apply? Of course. It just depends on what you want to build. What about your childhood motivated you to get into a position where that took up your 20s and 30s? I think that I have always been extremely career driven. I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. My mom and dad parents. Yeah. They own a business together. So my sister and I were in the office like stuffing envelopes and like helping them. And so they were always working 24/7. Like my mom was at home working or my dad was out. So we just grew up around a really strong work ethic. And obviously we saw what they do at work is what provides for us. So it was like very clear to kind of see that boundary versus like, oh, you work for someone else. And then that's how we get this money. It was like we see you putting in the work. My sister also owns a her own business. She's a wedding photographer in our travel agent. But like we always were in that thing. And I was actually like, I don't want that. I when I went to I went to NYU and worked I worked at huge corporations. Like that's how I started. I was at IEC. I was working up the ladder. And I was like, great. I will be a VP SVP. You know, great. I'll work up. And and this is not my problem. I have amazing healthcare. We got snacks at the office. Like I am chilling. And like this is my career path. And that all changed when I was laid off when I moved to Los Angeles. So I was let go from the company I was working at IEC. I'd been transferred to Los Angeles. And I was like, I'm in a city. I don't know anyone. At the time, the only industries in LA were really gaming and entertainment in film, which I had no experience in. And I felt a huge identity crisis because I realized how important my career was for me. And I needed to get back in the game. I was also like dealing with the little shame and guilt getting laid off. It's like not great. And I ended up freelancing because I couldn't get a job. And that's when I started kind of owning my own hours and doing my own thing. I read the four hour work week, which really changed my life. And I was like, Oh, I actually have that personality type where I just can get you done quickly. And I like being in charge of like managing my own time. And then I ended up getting more clients, ended up having my first hire, ended up launching my first business. And I was lucky because I had my parents who were like, here's how you start a company. Here's how you do this X Y and Z because I was definitely not the business expert. I was more of a creative and strategist. And the rest is history. I became obsessed being in control of your own success. Worked really well for me. If you were to have kids today, what are the lessons about money and entrepreneurship that you would teach them that would be maybe similar to your parents and then different from your parents? I think to build real wealth, like it's not going to come from your nine to five. What a company offers you is stability, health insurance, you know, all of those different things. And like a little bit of a lifestyle, right? Like you're not grinding to the level you are if you own the company. But I think now more than ever, people are wanting to be in control of their own destiny. And we're seeing the ability to do that being democratized, you know, whether you're creating content or affiliate links or all, I mean, there's a million different things that you can kind of do. Consulting gig economy, like this is all coming to a head, especially with companies being like, we have to come back to the offices. I think people are like, I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to trade what I can build on my own. And I think for me, what I really learned about money was a few different things. One is like, you have to be diversified. You can't have all your eggs in one basket. Whether it's from your nine to five or your five to nine, you have to be building. And I think it's really interesting for me. I've been very fortunate in that I've made a lot of risky decisions that have paid off. I would say for the initial wealth of selling my company was what kind of propelled me. This is the first company. into starting to figure out what am I going to do with this money and how do I make this money work for me and for me That was real estate. I bought my first house right after selling my company and flipped it Which again is like how you can make real money in real estate is buying Changing the property in a really good area and then flipping it and that house really set the tone for what would be like a real estate portfolio Buying my second home. I was very lucky. I bought my second house March 2020 So got locked in an amazing rate was able to like really kind of use that then obviously buying this Napa home So real estate has been something that's helped me take that little pot of money I had and really grow it the second thing I would say is angel investing which you and I know like They're obviously it's a big risk But the way you think about it is like you're writing all these small tracks into 15 companies One is going to pay back all that money and for me I was very lucky and that my first angel investment was in a way luggage and so I was bought out for Millions of dollars of that small twelve thousand dollar check. I wrote and so that you sell it on the secondary market Yes, wow, okay for those people I don't know So there's like really two ways to get liquidity when you're angel investing into private market companies Which we're gonna do a whole section on right now you would either get bought out by a company or by a secondary Which is like someone bought Jacqueline shares So you made liquidity your first angel investment and then the other way that you can also make it liquidity as an angel Investment as if it IPOs, which is very irregular for consumer businesses, but so keep going yeah So that was a huge huge win for me as well even before selling Creighton Cultivate So I think it's all about diversification and how do you build your wealth outside of your your Business and 95 because for a long time everyone was like wow Creighton Cultivate must be doing so well But I was like I'm not making a ton of money off Creighton Cultivate I'm putting everything back into the business to then hopefully make a lot of money down the line But it was really about diversifying out my risk because if Creighton Cultivate, you know, didn't sell or something happened or like a global pandemic I would have been screwed, you know, so I think a lot of times founders I tried to give the advice one make sure you're paying yourself properly when you can when the company gets to place where that is possible And two if you can take money off the table while building do it because you're mitigating risk and you're putting your blood That's what in tears into this so I'm big about risk management but also taking risks right so I think for me Money is one of those things that can provide you a lot of calmness like I think for me of like the stakes of my life have gotten lower Which I think is such a good thing because the stakes were so high for so long And I was just operating at that like break neck anxiety induced pace to make sure I was going to build it But I got once I had like that money in the bank I knew I can breathe if you want to place in 2026 where you don't have to worry about the algorithm or the charts But you still want a profitable place to make money off of your brain and thoughts then we need to talk about beehive It's a platform I've been using since 2023 that lets you start a newsletter grow your audience and make money through a native ad network paid subscriptions and digital products all with a zero take on earnings and that's where I went to turn my Silly little tech talks into the beginning of my media empire Beehive is now a sponsor of hot smart rich what started as a simple way to share my ideas Became the place where I am my most vulnerable with my community all of you Which combined with beehive's built-in growth tools like boosts recommendations and referrals has helped me grow 100% year-over-year all while staying insanely engaged and connected to my angels It's free to start has preset templates and an AI website builder to get your newsletter and website up and running so fast If you want to give it a try head to beehive.com/hsr for 30% off your first three months But make sure you enter the code HSR 30 at checkout. That's B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com/hsr with code HSR 30 Let's talk about the perfect employee for a second because I think this is going to be really relevant to every single person listening whether they're a founder or they're actually an employee It's a really interesting dichotomy because we as founders want to bring on people that are as obsessed as we are, right? But then the advice that we're giving the people who are employees is like have a way to mitigate your risk Have side hustles when you think about hiring today like what does that perfect employee look like? It's so hard because that was something we struggled with that create and cultivate. We are a business for ambitious women to start companies And a lot of our employees left and start companies, which I actually think is a good thing I was like that means what we're doing is working. We've motivated people to the point where they feel they can go out on their own A lot of times when I was hiring what I would say is what are your goals and ambitions? Is it to grow within this company? Is it to get experience for a few years in this company and then go somewhere else? What do you want and obviously they give you the the answer you want which I want to be here forever, but when I was like no No, just be honest with me because if you're gonna be here for two years and give me your offer two years and then go somewhere else I'm fine with that. I just want to know and I will support you. I will help you I will write a letter of recommendation and I think that honesty brings people into a place where they feel like they can actually talk to you about what they're building versus like I'm gonna lie to you so I get this job and I think people do that a lot right because they think it's gonna be there forever But like that's not the reality what most people are doing and the idea of staying in a company for 10 plus years Has kind of become a relevant for a lot of people and especially in the startup world We know how hard it is and people really do typically burn out in two to four years But for me what I find now for the perfect employee Is someone who is going to come absorb learn but also Be their own boss like I have gotten to the place now where I don't want to micromanage people I did that for so long where I was like breathing down everyone's neck and I'm sure they hated me, but I was just So relentless, but I didn't let people Maximize their full potential at the at the positions and there was a few people I got to trust that ended up doing that towards the end But now I really want to empower people to be a self-starter and bring ideas to the table and then execute on those ideas And then tell me if it worked and then tell me if it didn't work. I want that kind of fluidity within the company for a few different reasons One is like I'm older right. I'm not going to be on the pulse of what's happening in the 20s 30s market of like The what's cool? What's trending now? And I don't want to be chronically online I was chronically online for a very long time But these girls are and so I'm like talk to me about what's going on in your world What's interesting? Who do you want to see speak? Who would be like? Oh my god I can't believe this person's here and being part of it So really tapping them as like the hive mind of like our company is really important And I want them to feel collaborative and like they have a piece of the pie I think now it's a little different because we are venture backed. There is a little bit more breathing room When you're bootstrapped you are every dollar counts You are fighting to build a company that is profitable Lean where everyone is overstretched over indexed and like that's how you have to build in that environment Which is not healthy for anyone now. It's like you know We have a bit of breathing room where we can build in a way that we want to let's go back a little bit to Paint people a picture of the career. So 27-year-old Jaclyn starts creating cultivate Cells it at what age? I think I was 36 or 37 36 or seven you take off that period of time Talk to me about what you do once you're ready to get back into things I launched a fundraising masterclass So I was doing a lot of consulting coaching things like that and everyone as you know was like I need angel investors. Where do I find angel investors? Or how do I raise money? What are these things like no one was having these conversations and I was like Okay, there's a formula. Here's how it goes. Here's what you need to know. Here's a terminology And it was like every call I was having and I was like I'm just gonna create a course So go and create this course and I basically like don't market it I'm like here guys here it is if you want it and it does like well But I'm just like kind of over it. I'm like, you know, I'll sell it to a few people whatever I get a DM from this girl who I'd met at a Creighton Cultivator event Marina Milton who was like hey, I saw you discounted your masterclass. Is it not selling well? I don't know if I could say it's like get out of your girl, but then I was like she's not wrong So I was like hey, yeah actually like I was like I didn't have the engine of Creighton cultivate behind me Which I'm so used to having and like I also am like not really wanting to be like salesy on the internet and Whatever and she's like no, no, I do this is what I do. I do courses. I can definitely help you Have you ever thought about doing a mastermind? And I was like no, not really I was like I feel like people who do masterminds are like not successful or like haven't like done businesses It feels like kind of Weird and she's like no, no, I think a mastermind would be amazing with you Like we should do one together and I was like well if I can get someone else who's like a true entrepreneur has Credibility to do it with us like I'm down and she's like all around the whole thing blah blah, so I call Ali Webb the founder of dry bar and I was like do you want to do this thing with me and she was like Yeah, let's do it. I love like coaching women and being part of it So we launch it and marina runs the entire business and is Abused and I'm like loving it. I'm like out of this girl is like hungry aggressive knows what she's doing is Obviously super passionate about it and like year one we do a million dollar like it's super successful I'm like this is great and I love it. I get to coach women. It's super fun all these things Parallel paths to that. I'm still on the board of creating cultivate so I'm on the board meetings But I've like definitely taken a step back. I go to the events but like very loosely involved the end of 2023 I get a call from the private equity firm which is rare Like I feel like they don't really want to talk to me and we had just had a board meeting that was Basically like okay, we're good. We're funding through end of year like everything's going well Like we're all lines great great great and I love the CEO that's running the company. She's great like feeling good And he basically is like we've lost faith in the direction of the company and we're gonna go after a secondary sale or And I was like, what, I was like, we just had this board meeting, I'm so confused. So I'm caught off guard by this entire situation. And so immediately I'm like, okay, who can I, who can I call that would be a good home for this? So that's like my initial reaction is like, okay, let me think about all the strategics that were during COVID that were interested. Like now we're kind of like have money or back, like doing things. And so he basically is like, you have 24 hours and then I'm going to start like making some decisions. And so I'm like, really? I'm like, what is going on? So he makes the decision. I was like, I can help, like let me try and figure this out. Like he's like, why don't you roadshow and raise money? And I was like, well, I don't want to go raise money on a company I haven't been involved with. Like I don't know how to speak about this. I'm also not like running it. And then he's like, come back and CEO, but they weren't going to pay me the salary I would need to come back. So I was like, this is feeling like you're kind of trying to make this my fault, but it's not my fault and not my problem. But I also care a lot about this and I don't want to ever see it go away. I call Marina. And I was like, hi. This is what's happening. I don't know what's about to go down. But if there was a world in which we could buy this back, would you want to run it? Because I knew I wasn't going to go back to being like the day-to-day CEO building this company. And she without hesitation was like 100% yes. What do we need to do? And I was like, I don't know, I don't even know if this is possible. I just wanted to have this conversation because what we're doing with Blueprint is working. It's great. We can obviously loop this into Crate and Cultivate. It feels like a natural extension. And I don't know. I don't know the answers. I need to go back and start to see what's happening. So essentially at that point, I went back and was like, if we're going out for a secondary, I would love to throw my hat in the ring to buy the company back. At which point, I obviously have to recuse myself in the board. And I'm no longer involved in those conversations. I loop in Marina. We start to have these negotiations. They are contentious to say the least. And really difficult because there's a lot of complications now that the company has had debt put on it. It's been acquired. It's now. It's like a mess, basically. And we just fought through as much as we could to get this deal done. It really came down not to the P firm, but the lender on the business who would be the highest debtor had this not gone through, where they basically said, like, we see if we give this back to you, it's our best chance at getting our money back, essentially. And so we were able to acquire the assets back. And you essentially start from zero. So all of the employees are gone, which is really heart disheartening and very difficult to navigate. Everything's gone. Here's just like the assets. Good luck. So you're starting from zero. And so we immediately went out and raised from angels because we're like, obviously, this is a very well known company that requires capital. And then we took like four months to be like, what do we want this to look like? How do we rebuild this? Where do we start? And we put together this strategy. And I had this conversation with Marina where I said, there's two options here. Option one, you and I build this. We take this as our engine for our personal brand. We launch a podcast. We run the blueprint. We do a couple of events a year, small. We have maybe two employees. And we start to build this as like a smaller business. But that is for us. And we can run. And we have a life. Like you hang with your son. We have a good life. Like, you know, it's very mellow. I was like, option two is we pour fire on this thing. We go big and we sell it for a ton of money. I was like, you have less time with your son. You've never been more stressed in your life. I was like, your marriage, like you're not here. I'm like giving her this dark picture. She's like that one. And I was like, are you sure? She's like, I am 100% sure. And I was like, okay. I was like, I'll support you either way. And we went off our venture, closed our round very quickly. We're very lucky. And I'm $2.4 million later. We were like, all right, we're building a huge festival. And we did. Why did you not want to go back as CEO? Those years by myself, I very much learned that I am like, definitely a victim of circumstance. If I'm put into a situation where I can put pedal to the metal and make it happen, I will be obsessive and I will go crazy and I will lose myself because I love building. Like it's such a deep fire. One of my employees one time was like, what's an adjective you should describe Jacqueline? She was like relentless. And I actually felt like it was so true. I was like, I am relentless when it comes to those things. And I didn't want to be like that. I'm not in that stage of life anymore where I need to be. And I also want to see someone else feel that and be excited about it and be passionate about it. And it's so hard to find someone like that. So finding Marina was lightning in a bottle on top of this whole thing happening. You want this maybe more than I do. You're hungry. You're smart. You're scrappy. You love this community because you were part of this community. And it felt like the right move where I knew I was like, I don't want anyone to report to me. I want to be able to at the drop of a dime, take a trip, do yoga, whatever. I can't live that life anymore because it physically is not good for me. And it was like that with Creighton Cultivate and it was also like that with Cherub. Do you think that some people can metabolize that stress differently? Like for Marina, it's a completely different experience being CEO than it is for you. Totally. And I think a lot has changed since when I was building like, you know, I was really coming out of that hustle world mentality of like sleep under your desk. That's how you prove yourself. Like that was what I was raised on and worked in. And then like somewhere around the five to six year mark of building Creighton Cultivate, there was that massive shift around work life balance and people, you know, not wanting that kind of relentless intense boss. And I had to unlearn a lot of that where I was like, Oh, this is what I've been taught works. And this is what I've seen work. And now I need to find a happy medium between being this very emotionally regulated balance life, like not everyone's going to operate your intensity. And like we require this intensity to be successful in finding that middle ground was really important. But I also think we've put in checks and balances to make sure that this time around we aren't running everyone into the ground. We aren't doing an obscene amount of events. And I also think that comes with not being bootstrapped by that lifestyle that I had put myself into. And one of my big regrets was not raising money that first round, that first time around. It's so interesting that you're saying that because I think we hear the opposite so often do not raise money for your business unless you have to. You have golden handcuffs now to a totally different group of people. You have investors that you have to report to. I'm glad I didn't do it early. I would have done it later where I would have had all the control and all the power because we had such a good business. We were 4 million EBITDA growing, doubling year over year, on track to 25 million, grossly profitable. We had product lines and target. We had our puck as we had our book. We had a million deals in the pipeline. And so when you're raising, when it's like that, you have a lot of control. So we could have taken on really strategic capital with very little, giving up very little ownership. And that would have changed my life because I was operating so lean and doing so much that I think I would have been able to elevate into a better CEO, a better boss and build a bigger company, longer term. But at the time, no one was really investing in companies like Crean Cultivate. Anytime I would meet investors, I was like, oh, that's so cute that you're building a women's community, it's not how it was today where people are like, oh, wait, that's a huge business. I mean, hot smart rich, huge business. Like these are things that can be massive and then we're seeing now that shift where creators now are just getting invested in for being themselves and developing new things. Like that was not the market. It was like, are you a tech platform? Otherwise, we're not interested. And I would say like that was why it was so important for me to sell was because I wanted to show that these businesses are real businesses. And they have immense value and can grow into these monstrosity media companies massive. Like I wanted to build the Disney for ambitious women. Like that was my goal and it always was. And I think not raising capital stifled that in a way and again, made my life much harder. You're such a transparent person as it comes to numbers. Like you just said, like four million EBITDA, 22 million of revenue, like you sold your house for in New York post, it was like four million dollars. Like you are very transparent around numbers. Was that learned? Or that's just because like, like where did that come from? So I feel like women are doing a disservice to themselves to not talk about money. I was someone who really had to learn this stuff on the fly. I had a business partner in Crate and Cultivate her name, Serena Panchanski. She started DBA, which was one of the first talent agencies for influencers. Really networked, really successful. And I was very lucky that she was able to really walk me through money, whether it was through the business or personal wealth, everything from like leverage. Like leverage is a term that like women just don't use, like once you have money, you never spend your money. You just leverage your money to spend other people's money. And that was something that you don't get taught. And so really being able to speak to women who had done it, built it, grown it, sold it, and then made like exponentially more money down the line. You have to talk about that because otherwise we're all just stagnation. Like we're not doing ourselves any favors and then talk about the stuff all the time. So for me, I wanted to be as honest as possible because I felt very lucky having met Reena that I got in the room. Like, there's no reason I should be in the rooms I'm in based on how I grew up and who I was. I was again relentless in getting in those rooms. And now that I've been in them, my goal is to share as much information and value I can with other women because there are formulas, there are secrets to success. And we're not sharing them because we're so nervous that there's not enough space for everyone, which I understand. understand why. Historically, that has been the case, but I actually think the more women who have money, the more powerful we become, women historically invest back into women. For myself, I invest in female founders. I hire female florist, caterers, production companies, whatever it is for the events that we do. We invest back in our own economy. It's proven. So why would I try to stagnate another woman for making money that I know is just going to have more women rise? I love that. I think that's why we've gotten along so well because we're very confident in the same cloth. Over 50% of people in this month will make a resolution about better money habits. Peeling it back to like 25-year-old Jacqueline who hasn't hit liquidity yet and doesn't know about leverage and doesn't have anything to leverage. What are some of the money rules that anyone listening can apply for personal finance to be able to make investments whether it's in their business or in their schooling or education? What are those basic rules that you still live by today? Yeah, I joke because I grew up and I'm very nervous about money household. Obviously, they own their own business, my parents. I joke that I grew up in a mini bar household where I was terrified to open the mini bar and hotel. My mom was like, "Do not touch it. Don't get an M&M from it because that is going to make us bankrupt." I cannot do that. I always had that mentality around money being very nervous and making sure I always had enough to be okay on my own. That was something that my mom really instilled in my sister and I was like, "Do not rely on a man. Do not rely on anyone else. You need your own money." I was very ingrained in that mentality going into it. My first few jobs, I was very lucky in that. My first job was at a place called Attention PR. I'm going to age myself in that they were a word of mouth marketing agency because the word social media did not exist. Wow. We were like Instagram had kind of just launched, but we were creating Facebook pages for like S-Day Lauder. It was so laughable now, but at the time, highly innovative. I was employee number three. I was along the two co-founders who were brilliant salesmen, really smart, and I got a bird's-eye view into how to run an agency from the ground up and sell to massive Fortune 500 companies. I was really early to that social media world. I then was able to get poached and go to another job, doubling my salary, which was life changing at that age, you know, it was like 21 years old. From there, I was able to grow and bounce and make more money while I was doing that. I also had a blog at the time that was highly successful and was getting brand deals early days. And so essentially for me, I was always putting money away. I was always saving and really trying to spend as little as possible, except for the things that really mattered to me. And for me, that was like having an apartment, like that was, you know, livable in New York City and being able to travel. But really, I was just saving money for the longest time and really investing back into my like 401k and all those different things. When I left the working world and I went to start no subject, one of the things that's interesting about running your own company is that you can really run your life through that business. I mean, that's why they call it a lifestyle business. Your car can be through that company. Your rent, if you're working from home, can be that company. So figuring out how to really maximize, you know, that LLC potential was a good way for me to build wealth because all of this was through my company. And as you know, the famous thing, it's a write off, you know, but it really was a good way for me to build that money over time. But the reality is is we live in this world where everyone's flexing private jets in this and that and whatever. And you can get caught up in that. And I think it's just important to be really honest with yourself about what you want your life to be. Do you want to live paycheck to paycheck? Do you want to always rent? That's okay if you do. But you have to have a really honest conversation about what you want your life to look like and what makes you feel financially secure. It's so interesting too because I think that women and men treat money so differently. Well, I will never forget this. But one of the first female fundraisers at Harvard's Endowment Fund where they're calling alumni and getting them to invest into Harvard's Endowment Fund, she was the one that told me this where she was like, it's so interesting. I'm now 65 years old. I, you know, went to Harvard, worked on the Goldman Sachs trading floor and just seeing the difference between the way that women treat money and men treat money has not changed like in this 45 years since I've been in the workforce. And she said it was because women think about money in such a finite way. And if you spend, it's like, it's gone. Whereas men think about money in such an infinite way. And if you spend, it's going to come back to you. Now that you're on the other side of being an angel investor, running a business that is encouraging women to angel invest, have raised money yourself. What are the differences between men and women and how they treat money based on that risk-reward profile? I couldn't agree with you more. It's so true. And even being on the VC side when I was getting pitches, men would pitch in such a grandiose fashion. We're going to be 300 million in the next two years. Like, we're going to be doing this. Like, this company is going to be the biggest thing you've ever seen. Women pitch in realistic goals. Like, I will definitely hit a million dollars next year. And I think we'll be, you know, the really steady growth. And I'm going to be such a good stored of your capital. And they are. Because that's how women think. But we need to think bigger. And we need to take bigger swings. It's like the BDE that everyone talks about. It's so real. Even with Cherub as we're raising money, I'll send emails that are so something I would not say. But it's just like, are you in? You out? Like, we're the fastest growing company. Like, and the reaction I get is so positive, you know, because that's what people, especially investors, want to see. Whereas women want to hit the goal. Men want to make you think they're going to exceed the goal. And then they always like under deliver for the most part. But like, they sell the story, right? They sell the vision. They sell the dream. Whereas we are like, we want to be as practical as possible. And it's interesting because I feel like I agree when you're raising money. It's like the bigger vision. And I love raising money. Like, I love fundraising. And I also then I'm like, but I have to be able to empower and educate and like make sure that the music isn't just going to stop, right? Like, we're in this bubble right now, probably with AI where it's like the amount of money that is getting funneled in their reminds us of like the dot com bubble, right? Where it's like, there will be one to two, three companies that will succeed. Everything else could potentially have really hard ripple effects for where we live and plan. So I feel like women, it's that double edge sword, right? Where it's like, you want to swing big. And even for myself, when I'm raising money, it's like, I don't want to over sell what this could be because oftentimes it's like, it works for a few rounds and then the music dies, right? When you think about people that are raising now, people that you're giving money to, like what are tangible takeaways that people listening to this can put into their toolbox when they're raising money from VCs to strike that balance between this isn't a fairytale. This is real, but it's also big and grandiose and going to get me what I need to move society forward. I think for me, like from an investment philosophy, I invest in things I know about. I think that's a good way to kind of start, especially if you're like, yeah, starting out as an angel investor, because someone can tell me that this AI robotics company is going to be the biggest thing ever. And I have no idea. I'm like, LMM, whatever, like, what are we talking about? Like, I am not the expert on that. So whatever you're telling me, I'll believe because I'm not involved in that industry. Whereas beauty, fashion, community building, all of these things, I know and love. So when I, you're talking to me, I know the reality of the situation and I also can be helpful to your business. And I'd rather invest in those companies where I understand the potentiality and the possibility versus something I do not understand at all. And I've invested in a few things. I do not understand at all. And most of them have failed to be honest. And I'm not connected to the founder in any real meaningful way. And so for me, I like to invest in things I've, like, tried and tested and I know will be successful, especially because I know how to help them. 2026 is the year we get hot, smart, and rich. But there is such a thing as being too hot. And that's what happens when you run as hot as I do when you sleep at night. I didn't realize how much of a difference your sheets make. Truly. One of the biggest upgrades I made was investing in sheets that actually keep me cool. So I can get the eight hours of sleep I need to perform at my best this year. I kept seeing cozy earth everywhere. So I finally tried them because I could return them hassle-free. H is R. Not only do these keep me cool at night, but they are the softest sheets I have ever felt. Perfect that they now sponsor my show. And now is the time. It's the new year, the perfect moment for a reset. And if you don't love them, you can return them hassle-free. I'm so excited to be partnering with cozy earth because they stand by their product with a 10-year warranty. So visit cozyearth.com and use my code HSR for 20% off. If someone wants to diversify their portfolio this year and has a resolution about money, when do they know if private market investing, angel investing is right for them? Right. So there is a accreditation around this, right? And this is really a safety net from the government to say, like, this is very, very risky. Do not bet your life savings on angel investing, which I agree with. However, I do think the most common misconception with angel investing is that you have to invest a lot of money. I was at a dinner recently with bullet pitch and my friend Felix. And I was talking to some of the creators there. And they're like, so how much do we have to invest? Like 500,000? I was like, Oh, no, no, no, no. You can invest 10,000. You can invest 25,000. You can invest 500,000, but it really is dependent on what you want to build as a personal portfolio. And I think that's how you have to think about angel investing. is every year you put aside a sum of money. Maybe it's $5,000, $10,000, $100,000, whatever that looks like for you. And you can divvy up where that goes into different companies. There's obviously things like SBVs where you can invest a much lower amount of money, lower risk, I think, for early angel investors there are great opportunity to kind of get your feet wet. And then you can diversify and say, I want to invest in one CPG business, one food and bad business, and one AI business. And I get to determine what that portfolio looks like. And angel investing is a long game. It is not typically an overnight success story, even though lately we've been seeing some of those. I do think you have to understand that you're in this for the long run. But the other thing I like about angel investing and the reason I started angel investing was social capital. The reason I started investing in female-founded companies was I wanted those relationships with those women. I obviously believed in them in their businesses, but as I was building Create and Cultivate, those relationships were extremely helpful for me, whether they were speaking on the stage or introducing me to other women in their network, it created a social capital ripple effect that helped me build my business. And then from that, launch a fund because I had a track record. So I think for women, think of it as a small thing that you can step into and grow over time. But also it's important to realize, one of your investments will pay for your entire portfolio. That is the goal, right? That will cover all of the cost of all the things that you've invested in over time. Or maybe you get multiple, which is great, but that's typically not the reality of the situation, which is why I say invest in things you know so that you can be helpful to that business down the line. For women that are listening to this or men, and they're thinking about angel investing, what is the through line looking back on your years of investing of what to look for that can spot winners? I'm big on founders because I know really when you were investing, if someone invested in Create and Cultivate when I was running it, I was going to be the one that was going to drive that to the finish line. Like without me being obsessive about it, it wasn't going to last. So I think one is founder first. I mean, most of my investments early days or friends were like, Diana Cohen from Crown Affair. Like we knew each other when she was working out of way, like back in the day. And so when we had kind of grown into each other and understood like our professional lives when she said she was launching something that was a no-brainer to me. Deepakamut Yala lived tinted, like invested in her, almost immediately. One, because of the community she had built, I knew how to kind of help her with that if need be. And also obviously it was such an underserved market. Another example, now further down the line, intro, I'm an investor in intro because I was on the platform early, I've used it, I've had success with it, I've met so many incredible people through the platform, I believe in it, I love the founder and therefore like would want to write a check into that as well. And the goal is like obviously to sell, but now for me it's more to support. I think is like really the mission with what I'm doing on the angel investing side. And you can have those different eras of angel investing, obviously for returns, for social capital, and then to support. What is the smallest check you've ever written and the biggest check you've ever written? Smallest check of ever written, $2,500, like pretty small into an SPB and then $150,000. Okay, I'll be transparent with you too. My smallest was $2,500, my biggest is $50,000. Yeah. And I feel like that is, I'm like what creator is investing $500,000 into a business, Jacqueline? Girl, they're making money. I like, but I think that's also a huge misconception about creators. Like not every single creator is making that type of money. Totally, yes. And but some of them are. And they have a ton of money that they're sitting on and they don't know how to diversify and invest beyond putting in a high yield savings account or just giving it to a wealth manager. So I always tell people that want to get into angel investing because I actually started by obviously investing other people's money, but I also started doing equity deals for my advisory services. And I actually had an exit two weeks ago from an equity advisory relationship. And I would be so interested hearing from you now who's run multiple businesses, like if someone's listening and really, really, really wants to advise, create, and cultivate for equity. Let's just say that you're doing that. What is going to catch your attention to give up the most finite resource of your business? To have them take equity, provide services for for the people that are listening that just don't have the capital to start investing this year. So my number one piece of advice I give people who are starting to raise, who don't have a lot of credibility in the space yet, get an advisory board. It's so, so, so important and can absolutely game change your business early days. I think for us or like for me, I'm like a few different things. One is like, is this going to help my business grow? Whether it's through raising money, revenue, et cetera. Two, do they have information that I need? Like how have they done what I need to do before? Or three, do they have connections I want access to? Can they introduce me to people? One of the mistakes though is like saying, oh, I want an advisor and here's equity. You really have to lay out the terms. Like my advisory contracts are intense, you know, they'll get out of them because they're giving me a lot of equity. It's like weekly phone calls, introductions to VCs, you know, inclusion and Crankold, whatever it is. And those things can really game change your entire business, but I'm huge on advisory shares. And I also think oftentimes if you're investing capital, I always now pretty much do capital and advisory as one. So people have to invest into your company for you to then also give advisory. A hundred percent. I would say we don't have any advisors for Crank and Cultivate currently, but like I would say that's important because you need them financially vested as well. I was saying for me, I also now am investing and also getting advisory shares. Totally. I think back to like me though, even five years ago, when like I just didn't have the capital, right? Like I really didn't have extra money to be putting away into these companies that are very high risk, but also very high return. And you don't see that money for five to 10 years. Totally. It's actually very crazy, like a LP of mine and an SPV asked to pull out their money the other week. And I was like, I'm not sure if you know, but like you cannot pull out this money. And I think that's really important for people to listen to, but I think that there is value for people that want to get involved in this for all of the reasons we've talked about social capital, expanding your network, understanding how to actually build businesses and maybe spaces that you're really interested in. I do think there is a world for those people that don't have the capital. It's about like shots on goal. And it's like that with everything. Like you might not get a yes from Jaclyn Johnson at Crank and Cultivate because they need someone to put in capital to be able to get advisory shares, but there will be companies that are happy to take your advising without needing capital there and just start there, totally. And I actually advise a lot of people to give advisory shares to VPs at companies that they want to be like. So for instance, like a lot of my friends that are like VPs at summer Fridays or whatever. Like those are people you want on your cap table. They're helping them build these massive companies. You're not maybe going to get Lauren or whatever, but like you can get these people who also have that credibility and that inside knowledge to help build your company. So, and it's a great way for people in corporate to expand their own diversity in terms of investing as well. - Totally. Okay, so you have three pinned photos on your Instagram. One, we've talked about buying your company back after a $22 million sale. Two, we've talked about building the riot of angel investing. But you recently have pinned a video about your recent breast cancer diagnosis. You were recently diagnosed with breast cancer this past year. What is the first thought that came to you when you got your diagnosis? - I was completely shocked. I did not expect this. Basically, I'd gone in for my annual mammogram. It was really interesting. I had moved from Los Angeles to New York. Had to restart my whole medical tribe of people I had to put together. My doctor in Los Angeles was like, you need to go get a mammogram. I moved. I was kind of like pinging me every month. Like you got to go do this. So when I went to do it, it was like, no, you actually need to get prescribed this in New York now. So I had to go find another doctor. I was like, all these different things that were kind of pushing off this mammogram. But I kept having an ache in my left breast. It was so weird for whatever reason. I was like, this is so weird. And it kept reminding me to do it. So I finally go, I get it done. I get my mammogram. I leave fine. I get an email back that's like we found calcifications. And so we need you to come back for another mammogram. I had no lump. I had no nothing, no history in my family. And so I'm like, oh, this is, so I obviously like Google it and try to find more information. Basically, like, oh, this happens with age. So it's like, okay, no big deal. I go back in for that mammogram. The woman's like, do you know what's going to happen? And I was like, no. And she was like, we're going to basically see if these calcifications are staying apart when we do the mammogram or if they're coming together. If they're coming together, that's a problem. And you'll need to get a biopsy. If they're staying apart though, then that's fine. It's benign. I go in, I'm sitting in the waiting room. Hours, goodbye. And I'm like, did they forget about me? Like, what's going on? So I go to the front. I was like, I just like want to check in. Like, oh, no, no, you're fine. Just stay here. And they bring me back into a room. And they were like, they're coming together. So you do need to go get a biopsy. But in my head again, I'm like pre-cancerous, whatever. There's no lump. So I'm fine. I go back in for this biopsy. The biopsy is very intense. They essentially vacuum out all the cells like from this area. And they put in a little microchip so that if you do need to get surgery, they know where to go. In that meeting with the doctor, she was like, okay, here's what's going to happen. We're going to take these cells. We're going to test them. It's either going to come back as benign or stage zero cancer. And that was the first time I had heard that this is possibly cancer. And so I was like, okay. And she was like, I really don't think it's that. So I felt good. I was like, okay, she doesn't think it's that. I'm fine. No big deal. I'm in Arizona on a work trip for this Zillow dinner. We're doing it with Crane Colgate. So I'm like, all by myself in Arizona. And they said my results would be up in a week and it had been eight days. So I'm calling the portal company. I'm like, hey, I'm just checking in. I'm trying to figure this out. And they're like, your results are up there. Do you not see them? I'm like, I don't see them. I'm like, refreshing. And I get a call. And I assume it's from the portal company being like, oh, this is what it is. And she's like, hi, this is Dr. blah, blah, blah. She's like, are you sitting down? And I was like, yes, and I knew. And she was like, I need you to write everything I'm about to say down. She's like, you've staged zero cancer, DCIS. All of these words I don't know. I'm writing them down, I'm panicking. I get off the phone, I call my sister immediately. And she's like, okay, okay, we've got this, we've got this, and we're researching online. And DCIS is really interesting. It's kind of best case, worst case, right? It's the best case of the worst case. In the sense that you have cancer, but it hasn't spread yet. And stage one is when it spreads, stage two is when it's gone to your lymph nodes, you know, so on, so forth. So the protocol for this is, the next step is you have to go to a specialist, right? And you start to really understand all the nuances of what goes into breast cancer. The number one thing, do you have the genes? The BRCA gene, now there's more genes they've discovered, so you have to get the gene allergy test. Two does this right in your family. And then three is like, how big is it? How invasive is it? Where is it, all of the different things? And a lot of the mammograms and the research I had done show that you actually don't know until you get the surgery. A lot of people who have been diagnosed with DCIS get the surgery and then they find out they have stage one or stage two. I immediately went in for an MRI was very relieved to find out I had not spread beyond to my lymph nodes or anything like that, so that was great news. I went to MSK Memorial Sloan Kettering. I cannot say enough about them. They are at the forefront of research around breast cancer and specifically DCIS. And I loved my surgeon who basically was like, we need to just get this out of you. Like that's full stop what we need to do and get the lump back to me to determine what the next steps are. I say all this to say, I had just moved to New York City. I had just gotten in a new relationship. We had just moved in together. I'm in Arizona by myself. I have to go to a dinner after an interview, Trisha Lee from owning Manhattan and shake hands with everyone. And I was a full, I was fully disassociating. Everything is running through your head. Like am I going to die? Do I have to do chemo? What does this look like? I don't have anyone here. How do I tell my boyfriend this? Is he going to be okay? Like what is his reaction going to be? All of these things that you're trying to just navigate. And I was like really, really lucky. Obviously my boyfriend was like, let's go. We've got this. Became like truly the foremost expert on breast cancer listening to podcasts, like downloading research papers, like such an angel. And I felt really ready for what was going to come. Sadly, I know a lot of women who had breast cancer. So I was able to pick up the phone and call Grace Helbig who had just gone through this a year earlier. Daniel Fischel, who was on Dancing with the Stars at the time, texted me and was like, I had DCI as a year ago. Let's hop on a call. Like the community was so supportive, which is part of the reason why I wanted to post about it. Did it change your relationship with money and success at all? Yes, it's expensive to have breast cancer. I'm very fortunate to be in the position I am. And obviously have the insurance I have. I can't imagine for anyone else going through this, it's beyond costly. I also felt very attached to this community. Like when everyone kind of started talking to me in that way, I also wanted to slow down. It also became this thing where health is wealth. It doesn't matter how much money you have in the bank. If you don't have your health, you don't have anything. And I really wanted to focus in on living my life and drawing every single moment, taking the pressure off myself in the situations I sometimes put a ton of pressure on myself and just understand how fragile life is. Life can change on a dime. I think even as just about this year, in the positive ways, I met my boyfriend who I absolutely love. I have been able to do a million different things because of the changes in my life that happened so quickly. And at the same time, they can also have that reverse effect as well. You really can change overnight. And it's just so important to be on top of it as much as you can be. And I'm very on top of it. I think that I was lucky that I was able to catch it so early. Did it change anything about your relationship with your body? Absolutely. I've been on health journey the last three years. When I was growing crating cultivate, I was the most unhealthyest version of myself. I didn't have time to work out. I was exhausted. I was truly not eating well at all. I was on the road as traveling as a nightmare. I barely went to the doctor. And I came out broken in a lot of ways. And I completely changed my lifestyle after selling the business, working out, eating healthy, whole foods, vitamins, testing, getting test on every single thing, per nouveau, everything. I was on top of it, but the body keeps the score. And I definitely feel like the years I didn't pay attention to any of that stuff caught up with me in many ways. And so now I'm undoing a lot of that. But also, I think for me, I'm very cognizant of paying attention to my body. The pain in my left boob, this is so weird. It's just not. It was my body giving me a wake up call to go get this mammogram. And it's interesting. Few other people, my partner, chair of also at breast cancer, she was like, I had aches in my boob too. And I think it's just intuition. Like you really have to be so aligned with your physical body to be able to notice those nuances. 'Cause you're just powering through life. You won't notice it. It's such a great time to have this conversation because it's the time that everyone's thinking about tightening up their life, right? It's finances. It's their body. It's the way that they even think about their friendships, how they spend their time. Summing up your life story so far. Like what is a piece of advice you have for someone listening to this? That could save their life. You have to know your own boundaries. And I really, I mean that in this, like really in an intuitive sense. People would always say with me, or say to me, like, you're in your flow. And I wouldn't know what they meant. And I was like, I really don't get that. I feel like I'm just doing what I'm doing. This is fine. When you get out of your flow, that's what you know what it means to be in your flow. And that's a very real thing. A good example of this is I was with a friend in LA and she was visiting. And I was like, let's go to this coffee shop. We go to this coffee shop. She runs into an old friend who ends up connecting her to someone she ends up dating. She's like, oh my God, that's so funny. What a random thing that I ran into at this coffee shop and ended up being this person. We go to this bar after and she's like, I'm pretty sure this is the woman that owns this coffee shop that's going to hold carry my matchup brand. I'm going to walk up to her and introduce myself because she hasn't gone back to me. Walks up, introduced herself. Now I was carried in all their coffee shops. And I was like, you're exactly where you're meant to be right now. Like everything is working out for you. And I was feeling the opposite at that time. Nothing was working out for me. I felt everything I was doing was having the reverse effect. I wasn't feeling great. Anything I was trying to do wasn't manifesting in the way I wanted to. And when I picked up and moved to New York, I got right back on my flow. Everything started to work out for me. It was completely different. And I'm sure that's partially mindset. But I think it's really important to pay attention to those nuances. Physically, emotionally in life, are things happening for you in the way you feel like they should be or are things not working out? And what do you need to shift, mentally, physically, location wise, whatever, to make that change happen? For me, I can relate to that. Like it was changing my environment. Like being in a new place, changing my neuroplasticity. Like, I will never forget this podcast episode of Diary of CEO when it was this person talking about if you have the same morning routine. And you go on the same walk every single day, which I was doing before it ended my relationship. If you go to the same grocery store every single week at the same time, if you go to the same Pilates class, if you go to the same coffee shop, you are not increasing your neuroplasticity. And you are not allowing for life to happen to you because you're in the same routine. And I remember it was like, if you can't pick up and move and go to New York, like go to a different grocery store, go on a different walk route, even if it means you're walking from where you usually end and that's where you start. Like it is those simple small things that can completely change your environment to a level that I don't think people really appreciate unless you've been on the other side of it. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And I think those are the truest words. You have to go to that event that you're kind of dreading and don't feel like going to. You have to raise your hand and ask that question at the panel you're attending. You have to take those risks and change it up to your point in micro ways. It'll change your life. How do you make sure you don't get back to that place that feels dark when things start to feel comfortable? Yeah, you have to keep pushing your limits. And I think for me, I do that in different ways. It's taking and trips and traveling to places I've never been to and like really getting outside my comfort zone, I'm going to Morocco at the top of the year with my three girlfriends. Like we're going to have this amazing time. I can't we're camping in the middle of the desert. Like I need to feel alive and out of my day to day comfort zone. I would also say like I am getting more comfortable with riskier type investments. Like one of my goals this year is to help me in a fund and really like get into that side of that world because I've done all the other sides. Like this is something I really want to do. And being okay with everything falling apart. Like I think once you once everything falls apart for you, it becomes much easier to get used to that. Like once you know what it feels like for things to fail, failure doesn't feel so scary. And I think you have to take those big swings, but also for you and like where you're at, go where the momentum is. If work is taking off for you, your personal life is thriving like lean in to that momentum. And when you're feeling a little antsy, then fuck around and find out. But I think like there's also beauty in leaning into what's working and just feeling good in that moment. I am so happy that you came on for one of the first episodes of 2026, Jacqueline. I have some fun, rapid fire to finish off. But thank you so much for coming on seriously. I had the time. - It's pure coffee. Jacqueline Johnson, what is the last thing you put on your credit card? Last possible thing. - It was a coffee at Soho House. - Love, okay. Last most expensive thing you put on your credit card. - Oh my gosh, so I upgraded my ticket to Morocco. And this was so upsetting because I was about to do it before I went to dinner. I did, it was $3,500 for first class. And I was like, okay, I'll do that when I get back. $7,000 to upgrade to first class. Which I was like, I really thought about it. I was like, okay, I need to really think this through, but then I was like, you know what? This back cannot, for say hours in a car to me. I was like, I gotta, I gotta do it, I gotta do it. But I put them on my credit cards very upsetting, but here we are. I love that. Wine or therapy, both depends. I think therapy may be more over wine. It's gonna give you more results. Favorite keynote speech ever at Creighton Cultivate? - Yeah, that's such a tough one. But I think for me, Martha Stewart, iconic. What year was that? 2019. - Okay, yeah. You can only pick one for the rest of your life. Couch friends or travel friends? - Travel friends. What is your favorite female founded brand that is not yours? - One kind, I don't know if you know them. Clean skin care, I'm an advisor. I've known the team for a long time. Madison's awesome and their products are amazing. - Okay, love, we off to check it out. Last one, if you could title this season of your life, what would it be called? - Abundance. - I think I'm finally in an abundant mentality where I think I was living in a limiting one for a long time. How did you make the switch? - I think I started to let go of the outcomes, like just living in the moment and really understanding, like you can have whatever million dollars in your bank account, but you don't want that there when you die, right? Like you have to live your life and spend and ways that will change other people's lives, change your own life, travel, take the trip, do the thing, and just live life to the fullest. I think I was definitely living in a, I need to hold on to this for as long as possible and now I want to let go. - I'm gonna buy you the book, Die With Zero. Have you read it? - Yes, I have, exactly. But that's not the book that's going around, like all these female founder circles, I was talking to Amy Liu yesterday and I was like, what are you doing? And she's like, I'm reading the book, Die With Zero. And I was like, literally, I just read that book. So little book to read, like it is all about experiences and giving back and being able to like contribute things, like leave a legacy, not die with a legacy, you know? - 100%, like I think it's so important, again, up to your comfort level, but like, it's so important 'cause I think founders just are like, always trying to have the most cash possible because you want to be the most successful in all these things. But really, like there's so much you can get out of to your point that is gonna come back to you in the long run. - I love that. Jack and Johnson, thank you so much. Where can people find you? They can find me at JacquelineR Johnson on Instagram, createcultivate.com, and investwithchirib.com. - Thank you so much for coming on. Have the best times. Happy 2026. - Happy 2026. (upbeat music)