Secrets Revealed! What We’ve Learned Since the Draft Ended

Welcome to the ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Shield Kapadia. Today, we are talking about secrets revealed what we have learned since the draft ended. So this happens every year. You have the draft Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then in the next two to three days, all this information trickles out where you say, oh, that's actually what was happening there or big what ifs or this team was deciding between these two players. We're going to get into the biggest storylines that have emerged since the end of the draft. My guest today is my friend, the ringer's Austin Gale. Let's take a break. We come back. We talk to Austin. All right, welcome back to the ringer NFL show. Shield Kapadia here with Austin Gale. We are talking about secrets revealed what we have learned since the draft ended Austin. Before we get started on that, something has been knowing at me all day. So you are West Coast-based. I'm East Coast-based. I was up early, you know, get ready for the pod. And I was pinging you with a bunch of slack messages about, hey, this and I worried after the fact is this Austin is a high energy guy always on. Does he have the alerts on am I dinging him at like four or five a.m. West Coast time? I haven't asked you off the air. I wanted to save it for the pod. Oh, I always have alerts on. You are doing me, but that's completely fine. I'm up or pretty early. I have no problems with it. I'm happy we were able to talk back and forth. Usually when we're doing these like the step orders kind of sat and like we already kind of know what we're talking about. We got like a grab bag of topics here today. I was happy to kind of like dip my toes in. I'm also kind of pitching a way too early power rankings. I think this is a really interesting time to kind of really evaluate the off season because these rosters are kind of set. Now, some teams are going to sign to Juan Jennings or David and Joku. There's some free agents out there that make some older free agents that can impact rosters, but really the rosters are set now. And as you look at win totals and who's going to win the Super Bowl. You can kind of start to get a real feel of the depth chart and who's starting and all that. You can do all your summer prep now if you want to. You can you by June, you can be pretty confident. Here's why things going to make the Super Bowl and who's not all right, but everybody heard it. I can message Austin at any time, any day and he's he's a but you listen. He loves balls. So he doesn't care as long as it's about ball. All right, Austin, we're not talking. First of all, executive decision. We're not going to discuss a certain quarterback whether he's going to return to the Pittsburgh Steelers. I don't care. You don't care when something actually happens. We'll discuss it. So let's get that out of the way. And now let's get to the secrets that have been revealed since the end of the draft ready for this. All right, secret number one that has been revealed. Austin Sean McVey was actually on board with the Thai Simpson pick the decision to draft Thai Simpson at number 13. So let me give you a little recap. I know you know what's happened, but for the audience, there's a report during the draft that less need is friends with Thai Simpson's dad. And he's the one who actually advised Thai Simpson, Hey, enter the draft. You're going to be a first round pick. So we have that little piece of information. Then the Rams pick and then Sean McVey has a press conference with less need and he just seems very grumpy and cantankerous in whatever other words you want to use leading to speculation that, Hey, was this a less need pick and McVey's like bond about this and he can't even get excited. So you have that the night of the draft. Then McVey does some damage control. Austin, he's got like a series of interviews on day two and day three cracking jokes and I was on board with the pick. I had some other stuff going on. Well, you guys have never been grumpy here. I was just, you know, I'm allowed to be a little grumpy every now and then. So you have that, but then maybe the biggest little nugget we got here. Thai Simpson tells ESPN radio that he had some quote secret meetings with McVey. They talk for hours and hours about football and this is noteworthy because the Rams never meet with prospects. They don't go do pre draft visits. They don't go to the combine, but McVey met with him for hours and hours. So this leads to the conclusion. I think that Sean McVey was on board with this pick. Is this a situation resolved Austin or do you still smell something funny about this whole selection? It's interesting. Is it a situation resolved? I hope so because I feel like the little leaks coming out of this, like, well, actually they have this secret meeting for hours and hours. I mean, I don't understand why like the information is coming out this way. I think what happened was Stafford was kind of surprised. And this is what I just think happened. And I'm hearing some reports here and there who knows rumors. I think Stafford was surprised if not kind of outright upset by the pick at 13. I think he was upset. And I think when, no, there's that whole image of Sean McVey, when Tyler Simpson is getting drafted, he was looking down on his phone. It looks like he just got sent a bombshell and he then goes into this post round one presser looking really upset. And kind of with every answer trying his best to show that like this is still Stafford's team and that he's not over the moon excited about the Tyler Simpson era in LA. I think what happened was Stafford was upset. You know, McVey wanted to go into this press conference, not looking like he was super excited about Tyler Simpson, but overshot it. Then when he saw everything going viral on Twitter and on the internet, he opens that day two press conference saying, do I look unhappy now? And then he kind of reaffirms that this is Stafford team. He unless need our in lockstep, their best friends, their pals, and they made the Simpson pick together. Then I've never seen this before. Sean McVey, one of the biggest coaches in the NFL, top two, is doing a day three interview on Zoom with the broadcasters on ESPN, doing more damage control, coming out and saying, oh, I overshot it. I wanted to kind of, you know, I didn't want Stafford to be, it's so weird how they've had to like publicly show their interest in both Stafford and Simpson on this. And then now we have the secret interview. What ultimately happened is I think Stafford, I think McVey, and let's need the general manager, were excited by Ty Simpson. They've also said this, that 13th overall pick in their heads was a free pick. They got it when the Falcons traded up to go to jail and walk her last year. So they felt like it was a free pick. And when any GM is like, I got a free pick. And then my best friend's son is in this draft. And I kind of like this quarterback and Sean McVey met him for a secret. They're going to be okay, quote unquote, overdrafting him, I think at 13. I think if that was their actual pick and their only pick, they had on the first round, I don't know if they make that same decision. I think it was the free pick. Add in that less. He just friends with his dad. And at the end of the day, they're like, we're comfortable taking him in this spot because they feel really good about the roster. Now everyone's saying, why didn't they go receiver? I think they should have gone wide receiver three. And I think some of that might be true. Maybe they go McHigh lemon there. But they know, we know that they want to run a ton of 12 and 13 person. No, they drafted another tight in Max Fair out of Ohio State in the second round. They got five tight ends on the roster. They want Devonte Adams and Pukinakua to be the primary receivers and rarely put in their wide receiver three anyway. So look at this roster. Could they have gone Ruben Bane or Vega, you want a or look somewhere else? I think so. But they thought about it as a free pick. They made them secretly for hours and they all felt comfortable. At the end of the day, like I think they are lockstep on this. Now I think in their minds, they hope Stafford plays another year or two at an MVP caliber level. And they're not looking at Simpson until year three or year four. But it is good process in my opinion to be taking quarterbacks when you don't need them. I think he was overdrafted for this spot. But at the end of the day, it kind of was a free pick for them. So I don't know. It's gotten a lot of hate out of the draft and maybe rightfully so there is I think still a very good chance this works out because he landed in the best landing spot for him with Sean Depeck. No, I got to speak for the whole audience here often. Are we Tyler Simpson? Are we going full? Oh, why am I calling it? I don't know why I was calling him Tyler's actual name or I don't know. Why am I calling him Tyler Simpson? That was amazing. I didn't want to interrupt you because I'm like, wait a minute. I'm like, maybe he's just calling him by his full name or something. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's full is his full name or I'm on board. If you want it to be the official Ringer NFL stance that we just go Tyler Simpson, we can do that. I think you read this situation properly. I think what veteran quarterback would be like sweet, you know, yeah, go draft my successor when I'm trying to fricking win a Super Bowl. And I played through all kinds of injuries and I played at an MVP level. Yeah, go ahead. That's a great use of a resource. It's not like it's going to get to week nine. I'm going to wish we would have drafted a guard or a tackle or a tight end or a wide receiver or someone on defense. So I would get that Stafford would certainly be upset about that. And I think that led to them being like, we don't want to act too excited about this. You know, like we don't we don't want to make it come off like we are excited about the Stafford error to end. And man, we love Ty Simpson. And when he comes in, we're not going to miss a beat like they did not want to send that message. And I think they kind of went overboard. But I am buying the fact that McVay was on board with this pick. I mean, the only way I would say make the only thought in my head, and this was we did the pod right after the draft where I thought maybe McVay is not on board with this pick. Is it less need and ownership? We're of the understanding that when Stafford's gone, McVay is gone. And they said, listen, we love you, but as you've told us before that, you know, you're going to take a break, whether it's a mid career retirement, go to broadcasting for a year, whatever, you know, if they had that information from Sean McVay, and they were like, we know you're not going to love this, but we have to do what's best for the franchise. Then I could see it. But it doesn't sound like that's the case. I mean, they've convinced me over the last couple days, Jordan Rodriguez had some good reporting in the athletic where she said McVay has significant say over every first round pick. Like they don't take a first round pick that he's not vouching for. She said she had a recent conversation with him and believes he's very high on Ty Simpson. And so I think that McVay was on board with this. I just think it was an awkward situation. Like you said, we're Stafford was upset. They tried to figure it out. They tried to then do some damage control, and that's why we are where we are here. I mean, the damage control was outright sloppy, right? And I think that it's weird how they handled this whole thing. They had secret meetings with the guy, right? Like he came out and he's like, I've never met Sean. Okay. Actually, that's not true. They told me not to tell you guys that I met with Sean McVeigh. It's weird. That makes it weird. And how about the arrogant toss and they said they didn't want other teams to know McVeigh liked the guy because if McVeigh, then they might be right about it honestly. No, it came out that the carnal's like we weren't thinking about Simpson maybe even in the second round we wouldn't even take him in the second round. Like I don't know. Like I think some of that stuff is like them kind of not not being humble enough there. A couple of things. One, this adds pressure to them winning a Super Bowl this year. People thought maybe they were the best team in the NFL. I think there was arguments for last year. I think there's arguments for that maybe being the case. But now you make this tie Simpson pick. You make the Max Clare pick in the second round guys that are objectively depth players for your team. Ideally, tie Simpson doesn't take a snap next year unless they're blowing teams out. You make those picks. You need to win a Super Bowl because there might be a time in the playoffs where you'll say Jared verse goes down and you wish you had Rubin Bane filling in in that spot or a corner goes down or whatever. Like there are going to be times in the season where they're going to be saying, man, what if that 13 we took this player or this player to help us get over the hump and win a Super Bowl this season. The other thing, everyone's comparing this to two situations. One, Jordan Love. When the Packers traded back into the first round a few years ago to get Jordan Love while they had Aaron Rodgers on the roster. Difference is there with the back end of the first round. One, two, Jordan Love was just like raw, toolsy prospect that everyone loved like what he could be this arm talent, this ball of play Simpson isn't that kind of player from a tools perspective. Three, Aaron Rodgers was coming off some bad football seasons. He was not playing well and I think that like they were thinking about how much longer does Rodgers have left. Stafford's coming off an MVP season. Now the other people comparing this to when the Balkans took Michael Penix. Difference there is their quarterback was Kurt Cousins who was hurt and they knew he was her and they probably made him a safe sign into the contract that they did because when they's trotted him out he clearly could not move. The situations are completely different. Stafford is coming off an MVP. This team probably is maybe one or two pieces away from being a firm firm Super Bowl favorite and they kind of just want to play this two timeline approach. It's a clear risk. They're betting on themselves in a lot of ways. Will it pan out? It's hard to say but like the pressure now is not make the NFC championship. It's you need to make the Super Bowl. It's not win the Super Bowl. If you're going to be getting cute with these picks with a bunch of depth guys. Yeah. I was trying to like galaxy brain this and think if you're a Rams fan maybe it might be good to use because you're like oh McVeigh is playing on hanging around for a while. He's going to be around post staffer. He's he's going to try to grow Thai Simpson but still man. I am still of the same mind I was the night of the draft where I was just like I think they outsmarted themselves. I would much rather have someone and and I think you can justify it. Like you said it is good business. It's analytically sound. You have a 30 year old quarterback. You're really like a quarterback. Draft the quarterback that I understand that's a smart thing to do. However I just feel like they didn't need to do it in this situation I've said before. I feel like Sean McVeigh could get you know another veteran. I think there are people who are going to want to play with him. I think his superpower with staffer is that they can problem solve together. They've had so many reps together. They've had so many reps individually. We're now you're bringing in a rookie who has 13 career starts where I just don't know that it's going to be the same. And by the way, MegVeigh might be the best coach in the NFL. He certainly top five on any list, anyone with any knowledge would ever make. We don't have like hard evidence that he's a quarterback whisper, you know? He had Jared Goff at first and he got really good football out of Jared Goff. Now Jared Goff has had some really good football in Detroit. And then he got staffer who's a supremely talented player. Now he got the best out of staffer. But like this idea of him bringing in a young quarterback who you just have to develop and go through the ups and downs. That hasn't happened yet with Sean McVeigh. He might be great at it, but that still is a little bit of an unknown with him. No, I think so too. And I think I am like for this idea, whether a quarterback whisper gets thrown around a lot. Now can Sean McVeigh, similar to Kyle Shanahan, take really any quarterback and create kind of a high floor offense. I think so. I also think that I know I just compared, you know, I said, Jordan Love was his toolsy prospect and Simpson isn't that. I don't want to say that like Simpson has no tools. I do think that there's more arm talent than people give him credit for. There's more mobility than people give him credit for. And if I always say this, if he didn't finish the season as he did, but instead like say he didn't play the first half of the season with the same injuries he had over the second half. But he finished the season, how he started. There would have been way more conversations about Simpson versus Mendoza. If he went on a run and the college football playoff and the health is he was late in the year because recency bias affects everyone. And if that's how he closed the season, I do think these conversations would have been closer, maybe as close as what or lofts he wanted them to be. Now another part of this that makes it kind of hard to grapple with is next year I looked at Todd McShay here at the ringer or his mock draft for 2027. He had seven quarterbacks going in the first round. I think there's like eight or nine guys. And that doesn't even include Brandon Soresby, the Texas Tech quarterback who just got, you know, he might not ever play football again with the gambling allegations all that stuff that's happening now. He said Soresby would have been in his top 10. That's eight quarterbacks in the first round. And he didn't even include Drew Mestemaker who a lot of people really like to. Like there are a lot of quarterbacks in this upcoming class that to take Simpson at 13 when there's others again, like you said, it might be getting too cute. And for this to work, it's kind of like shooting the Death Star, right? It has to kind of work out perfectly to where Simpson develops under Stafford. You were able to win this one more ring at least with Stafford having gone all in with trading for Trent McDuffy, paying Jalen Watson, all that money. It's it's it's shooting the Death Star. And if there's a team that can do it, I think it's the Rams. I think they're one of the best organizations in football. And that's why it's hard to shit on a pick with the Rams because they've done so well over the last few years. But we'll see, man, like because now all the pressure's on. All right, let's take a break. We come back. We get to more secrets revealed since the end of the NFL draft. This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker. You know, I used to wear glasses and it was so complicated and overwhelming trying to pick a new pair. So many styles to choose from and don't even get me started on the price. This is why Warby Parker is great. Their virtual try-on is a total game changer. And when it comes to price, Warby Parker gives you quality and better looking prescription I wear at a fraction of the going price right now by one RX pair and get 20% off subsequent prescription pairs at WarbyParker.com slash ringer NFL after you purchase. They will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. All right, back here on the ringer NFL show. All right, Austin. Next secret revealed is that Mike Vrable's counseling lasted two days max. I got to put max there in parentheses. So to recap here, Vrable and the team make this big deal. He's skipping day three of the draft. He's taking the, you know, his family life seriously going into counseling. It was unclear what kind of counseling he was going to spend time with his family day three of the draft. What a sacrifice, okay? So that happens before the draft. Then there's reports that, well, he'll be away, but he's still kind of kind of being touched with the team while he's away. I mean, Peter Schreger is on ESPN's draft coverage and he used the phrase constant communication to describe it. That Vrable will be in constant communication with the team, even though he's not with the team. Then everybody says, no, actually, not the case. No communication. Schreger walks it back. Other reporters walk it back. Elliott Wolf, their GM says after the draft did not communicate at all with Mike Vrable on Saturday. It was too important to respect his time away. So you have all that. Then there are these New York Post photos of him buying a sweatsuit in a Utah airport gift store, Austin, which what imagine if I would have to imagine if like two months ago, I would have to do, I would have told you, hey, Austin, in late April, we're going to be doing a podcast where I'm going to utter the phrase, the New York Post had photos of Mike Vrable buying a sweatsuit in a Utah airport gift store. We would have been very confused about what happened. And now he was back with the team on Monday, Austin. What in the world is happening here with Mike Vrable, how he's handling the situation and how the patriots are handling the situation because this just seems incredibly clunky from my perspective? I mean, it's clunky for a lot of reasons, right? One of the parties, Deanna Racini is kind of the only statement we've got is that complete denial of any, you know, bad faith relationship with Mike Vrable. And then the other side is him being completely apologetic over his actions to the point where he's taking day three of the draft off and buying what looks like his wife of a sorry gift in the form of a sweatsuit. Like, I think it's clunky for, you know, for obvious reasons. I find it a handful of this interesting. I think some of it being like, this is going to be a clear distraction for the patriots. It's already a distraction for Mike Vrable and Bill has already hit this on his pod a ton. But like, they're going from last play schedule to first play schedule. I think there's still question marks with the receiving core, the offensive line, defense has to maintain pace. And then like, now it's like Vrable with this thing hanging overhead. The thing, by the way, his family, his kids, his wife, all those things, something you didn't bring up, though, in terms of secrets reveal. I don't know if you've seen on Twitter and Pablo Torrey is getting into this as well. One of the best investigative reporters that we have, especially on the Patriots stuff. But is that someone identified that Deanna Racini on, I think it was December 19, 22, sent a user on Spotify, a playlist called "Turning the Page" with a lot of, from multiple reports, music that Mike Vrable loves. She sent it to a user name Mike. Now, this blew up on Twitter. Everyone's like, oh my gosh. What specific about that date is it's coming off of a Tennessee Titans when Mike Vrable was the head coach of the Tennessee Titans, four game losing streak. Four game losing streak. The next day, Racini sends a user name Mike, this playlist of a lot of songs that now people are saying Vrable likes. What has happened since that has been viable is one, Deanna Racini has completely wiped her Spotify. Makes sense. 2. The username Mike, change their username to Tycar. Tyler and Carter are the names of Mike Frable's sons. Now, what is going on here? - Oh my God. - They cannot clean up their tracks to save their lives. This, to me, is like, it's such a hot gossipy story. It's involving an affair, it's involving an NFL coach, it's involving a reporter, but the hits just keep coming. This is the most I've heard Page Six mentioned in any off season that I can honestly remember. The fact that this whole thing comes out that Frable is gonna be spending time away from the team and they got photographers in Utah taking pictures of him buying gifts, like they are staying press coverage on this stuff. I just think that this is gonna continue to be followed 'cause it's such an interesting story. It doesn't feel like we have closure yet necessarily. I think Frable's trying to create closure for scene he's still in denial. The other piece of this is the NFL's not investigating. Greenberg on ESPN, like really pressured, not pressure, but kind of like hit Gidele with questions like, why isn't the NFL investigating this? And Gidele's word is, this is a personal matter. And if discipline is going to come, it has to come from the team. What I don't understand is how is this just a personal matter? Like, Frable having what looks like a close relationship with the Anna Rossini, who is getting information from a ton of other coaches, right? She got a voicemail from Sean Peyton randomly about how much he likes Boeing X. She is getting information from the other teams all the time. And then she has this close relationship with Mike Frable, where is Frable getting some of that information, right? Or is he pushing that just how insiderdom works? Austin, I mean, if they were to invest, I actually don't have an issue with the league not investigating it. I mean, aren't there, isn't every insider talking to, and I am, this is different. I'm not saying, like, this is obviously crosses the line. You can't be doing this if you're a reporter, you can't have a romantic relationship theoretically with a source. I totally get that. But the, but the, but the aspect you're talking about, where I have information and I am close with co-jacks, GMX, whatever. And I'm giving them some kind of information. That's the whole way how NFL insiderdom works. Is, is she then, if she gets information from Sean Payne, she's just able to give that information to Mike Frable? Is that all information trading? That's how that's how the whole thing works. Why do you think that? You have to build trust, obviously. And if you burn those bridges, she finds out, she finds out that, you know, there's some stuff about like Morgan Moses. And her tweeting out that Morgan Moses is signing with the Patriots before he signed with the Patriots. She tweeted out and then deleted a tweet about how the Carolina Panthers were going to sign Milton Williams and delete it and then the Patriots ended up getting Milton Williams. If she is giving information to Vrable about how other players are signed and like, and she is advantageously giving Vrable information that would help them make decisions on players or even cross whatever the tampering period is now, like that, I'm not saying he has to be disciplined. Why aren't we not investigating it? Can we understand like, how much information we've seen in giving Vrable? And how, I feel like, and you're like, that's how insiderdom works. Her close relationship with Vrable, if she's picking up this other information from teams, that could be ammentations and sites. And this is just with player signings. What if she's hearing about schematic insider stuff and all this, like, what's normally happening with every other journalist? Is there a relationship with one coach? Is the same intensity with every other coach? This one feels like it was a little bit different face. I don't know about that. I don't think that's true. I think absolutely there are insiders who have favorite because what happens is let's say what you just said played out and then, you know, let's say whatever. Sean Peyton gets burned. He told there's something and now she's telling it. Then you burn that bridge with Sean Peyton. I say, you know, you know, so I feel like they don't know. Inside people do that delicate dance. Like, first is how he versus how he roseman had some information that he needed to trade a trade ahead of the Pittsburgh Steelers to get McIe lemon in this last draft. I don't think that was happenstance. I don't think like that's type of stuff. You're this is what happens. You know, you're talking to whether it's Adam Schefter or Ian Rappeport or whoever else. And it's like, all right, I kind of understand the terms of engagement here, you know, now if you, you might tell them, hey, this is really between us. This can't go anywhere else. And you don't either you either you stand by that or you don't. That is that information trading is the whole business as far as I'm concerned now, it is different. I'm not saying, I don't want to say it's exactly the same. It's not exactly the same. When you have a romantic, potentially romantic relationship with one of the parties involved, of course, that's different. But I don't know. I mean, I guess they could have, they could have been shocked. They could have been shocked if Mike Rable did not have or gain. Even a, I'll put it at small competitive advantage because of his relationship with Deanna Racini. I'd be shocked if that's not true. In terms of just the information he was able to get from other teams and how he was able to use it to his advantage in the tampering period, signing players, even looking at other teams and what they're doing. Like to me, the depth and closeness of their relationship in terms of what we're gathering, what we're seeing, to the point where Mike Rable is taking day three off to hang with his family and buy gifts for his wife. Like that's how deep this relationship was. To me, I think it's at least worth investigating what information was Rable getting from Racini at all, right? And I think these teams play each other in the AMC championship. Like, and there was a pain relationship, there's a Racini relationship to me. I don't know. I think that maybe it's kind of crazy just to, yeah, and I'm not, I'm not even necessarily saying that he should be disciplined XYZ. I'm more like, I think this is kind of interesting enough for the NFL at least to investigate, at least to understand like, okay, what information was being traded? Was there a situation here where it felt like the Patriots were getting an unfair competitive advantage because their head coach had a close relationship with one of the reporters that was talking to other teams. One of like, if you had to rank insiders before all of this in terms of NFL insiders, probably Rappaport who works for the league, Shafter who works for ESPN, who now kind of works for the league, and then Deanna Racini, who worked for the athletic and which is owned by the New York Times. That's kind of where I would set them. Now, she has all this information. And the Titans, I think, if I had to guess which coach was getting the best of it, I'd guess Mike Ravel. - Yeah, I think, I think, all right. I think that's, you sort of talked, you sort of talked me into it. I do think it opens up a can of worms. I don't think the other insiders would be in favor of that being investigated if it leads to, you know, all right, let's see what other text messages are being traded and what favorites are being done. - Oh, but investigate them all. Some of this feels like, I don't really like that. - Like the library. - And why would the league want that? This isn't like that, I don't like, all right, if you're another team, I think they got a, but the league is like, well, they understand between agents, GMs, coaches, owners, other sources, like it's mostly transactional stuff. That's being, you know, and it leads to popular conversations and discourse and the popularity of the league. Like, this isn't an issue for the NFL. I don't think. Now, if another team, I think to your point, if another team coach GM, whatever, where to say, hey, you need to investigate this, because I feel like, then maybe, but I don't think that's gonna happen. But we'll see. Also, to your point about Vrable and how clunky this has been, it almost feels like he's tried to make the pivot obviously to admitting some wrongdoing and apologizing, but it's almost like he's dipping his toe in the water, where it feels like if there was one grand press conference, once he decided to make that pivot, where he said, and I don't know the details of what exactly happened. Obviously, we're going by photos. But let's say I was unfaithful to my wife, I was unfair to my family, I made huge mistakes, and I will work non-stop to have them forgive me, because they're too important to me, and I embarrassed myself, the family, the organization. I feel like if he had one sort of five-minute statement, where he did that, then maybe he's not being, you know, paparazzi at the Utah airport. Now, maybe he still is, but I feel like it would cut, you know, the legs of this story now are just so huge, and there's so much interest in them in it for a variety of reasons that, to your point, I mean, you message when we were talking about you, like how long is the variable diaries? Are we just like on July 4th? Are there used to be photos of, oh, here he is, trying to do this with his family. I don't really know where it is. - As long as the numbers are hitting, right? - Yeah. - Page six is like the numbers, right? They knew like, okay, if we send a photographer to where we know variables going to be, and we get a picture of him doing anything, we're going to do numbers on the dot com. And I think that's going to continue to follow him. And I know I'm focusing a lot on the Brable side, on the NFL side, it's obviously like a very sad story. There's marriages involved, there's children involved. - Absolutely, yeah. - And like, there's people, like when, before Deanna Rossini deleted her Twitter and all this, like people were questioning, like, if Mike Brable was the son of her child, it's like, it's bad. Like a lot of like gossipy, rumory stuff. What I feel like not most interested in, but like what is kind of surprising me about this is the football of it all. I think that, I think, and I'm kind of confident that Mike Brable gained a slight competitive advantage because of the relationship we had with this insider. I feel that way kind of in my bones, because at the end of the day, I think a lot, like you said, a lot of this stuff is being traded, but it's being traded transactionally on like, what are you giving me? What are you giving this? This relationship doesn't feel like it was that way, right? This could have been this coach or this player or this whatever is telling me this, and they don't want you to know that. I'm telling you anyway, that to me feels like, what could have happened, and honestly, I'm kind of surprised that the NFL isn't investigating it because it does feel like, and this is a team that is often involved in this kind of a cheating scandal in a different way, where if I think that there is a chance, at least, that the Patriots were gaining some kind of competitive advantage from this relationship, and the fact that we're just like, yeah, we're not investigating. Who knows, personal matter, who cares? Like, kind of feels like a hands-off situation that would, like you said, why would the league do this? The league won't, because they know it'll look really bad if they look into Racine or even these other insiders and how this information is being traded at all. - Yeah, it's gone from a media story to a gossipy story to now a football, it is a football story, when he is, you know, wait, he's very glad the facility, is he taking time off, how's it, and it's, like you said, that's not the most important thing, like kind of who cares, you know, but like there are, if you zoom out, or if you tell this to somebody who's not in the football world, they'd be like, who cares, like the Daily Mail, the Daily Mail is speculating that he could step down, right? Prediction markets have it at like a 25% chance that he's not the coach of the Patriots week one, And that, I think. is more like with the speculation that he'll really prioritize his family bigger than day three of the NFL draft and say you know what like this needs my full attention I might need to take a year off et cetera not and I don't think that would be a football decision as much as a family decision but still like it is made it is now fully become I think a football story and I think the story that no one wants to create is that wait a second where the Patriots kind of getting an unfair advantage from this and everyone kind of shushes shushes it immediately because they don't want to step into that water all right let's balance that conversation out with the next secret reveal that is very footballly okay if you're like enough with the gossip enough with that conversation let's get to the hard core x's and those Austin's got one for for us which is the NFL is going all in on tight ends so this was an observation you had you were looking at the draft you had some numbers so give us your take your observation on what you saw from draft weekend how it relates to last season and how it might relate to a trend here going forward I was talking with our editors here Lindsay Jones and Riley McAtey who do great stuff for us on the NFL in the.com side and we're kind of talking through this and and Riley through this headline now the NFL the draft showed us that the NFL is copying Sean McVeigh again and I think you really feel that specifically and everyone's bringing this up you brought it up on your show a thousand times about like this nerd sad about how much the Rams are using 13 personnel I want to take it to league wide how much the how much the league on average was using multiple tight ends sets that's anything less 12 personnel that's 22 that's 13 anytime there are at least two tight ends on the field it was 33 percent last year that's 3 percent higher than any year since 2006 that's when pff began tracking it then you look at this draft eight tight ends were taken on day two tied for the highest since 1970 21 tight ends were taken between rounds two and round seven that's tied for the most again since 1970 with tight ends and when you look at the tight ends that were taken it was a lot of blocking tight ends right the first pick for the Jacksonville Jaguars was the sky at a Texas A&M Nate Berkature who know he has like 38 career receptions he's like a pure blocking tight end and when Gladstone the GM of the James Gladstone the GM of the Jaguars asked about he's like we know where the league is going we see that we're adopting 12 and 13 personnel trying to put more tight ends on trying to put blocking tight ends on the field that's where we're going the last time we I mean the Jets took another tight end they took one in the first round after taking Mason Taylor and the second round last year the Rams have already five tight ends on the roster they took Max Claire in the second round you felt that teams were really prioritizing tight end not just one but having multiple on their roster I think that the last time we've had real personnel shift in the NFL it was the last time the NFL copied Sean McBaee when like everyone said you know what we need to run 11 personnel like 90% of the time we need three receivers on the football field all the time we need to create explosives we need to throw the ball down field and it really it changed the league right it changed the league we started drafting lighter and faster detachels got smaller linebackers got smaller you know you're talking linebacker saying we want you to play it like 215 220 I remember talking to Drew Tranquil when he's coming out in the draft he's like they don't want me to play above 220 they want me to play light because they know this is a passing league and this was in like my home boom and all that stuff now with this shift back we're feeling it in the draft of all these tight inspect specifically the teams that are taking them and this moved to 12 13 personnel what I'm just in your take is like this has a handful of range of outcomes right we've seen like flashy things happen in the league before wildcat last like a year the cheap motion was this cool thing until everyone was doing it the push push people think they can do it they all want to adopt it this is the first time like I said a personnel shift could be happening right where you're going from everyone running a lot of multiple personnel to 11 and now this 11 personnel sinking to where we need to run 12 we need to run 13 we need to fall back all this stuff I I want to know is this going to work right our our teams beyond the Rams and I think the COX had a lot of success with the two are they going to be successful no running multiple tight ends out my take is anytime this happens like half the teams that copy do an okay job and then the other half like don't and like yes it's a copycat league it's more and I think Steve Palazolo of um check the Mike said this on Twitter like it's not a copycat league it's an innovators league and Sean McVeigh has been one of the if not the biggest innovator in the NFL over the last 10 years and he's innovating again everyone's copying him again I just don't know if it's going to work right our is everyone grabbing all these blocking tight ends going to work I think in the short term maybe because defenses of like kind of reshaped how they draft to get lighter and defend the past but I don't know I think it's like kind of a fascinating shift that we're going to kind of experience this season and probably for the next two or three see what one advantage of being an old head Austin is that you remember when you first heard about stuff like this and it was in 2013 and I'm covering Chip Kelly and he's talking all about tight ends you know he's saying it's very simple you know if they're playing nickel if they're in sub packages and we have where we're playing two tight ends we're running the football if they're in base and we're playing two tight ends we're passing the football and I thought wow that's pretty interesting you know he simplified that very easily now did it work no it didn't work I'm old enough to remember you know bill bill bill checks big spending spree John who Smith and Hunter Henry Austin go Google at him the next grunk and Aaron Hernandez John who Smith and Hunter Henry Bella checks doing again it did not work and you look at some stuff here you know if you just look at some numbers there's not real evidence that I saw I did I did some quick you know true media research before the pot it's not like teams were more successful with two tight ends sets than eleven personnel on the whole last year if you think all the teams it's all it's very similar if anything eleven personnel was a little bit better in terms of efficiency eleven personnel was a little bit better in terms of explosive play rate eleven personnel even just running the football eleven personnel was better because I think the big thing here is that you have to have tight ends that actually give you an edge against the defensive backs in the run game that you can take advantage of or you have to have tight ends that actually give you an edge against the linebackers in the past game that you can take advantage of and I don't think there are enough tight ends that do that so these teams that say oh well we because if you notice it the tight ends that were taken there was a huge like variance in terms of where this this team had this tight end ranked here this team had this tight end ranked here like he was very unpredictable those tight ends that got taken and so I think it's going to be one of the things you alluded to that yes Sean McFaes he can be able to do it sure or some of the best offensive coordinators in the NFL that really know how to set this up what they're looking for in their personnel how defenses are trying to attack them they're going to have a lot of success I think there's going to be a lot of other teams that it's going to be a disaster the imitators are going to look stupid because if you're not you know if you're not a great offensive coach and you just feel like you can do what Sean McVeigh did you're probably going to fail so I actually think that this will swing back in the other direction I don't know if it'll be it might be this season it might be your where we're on here in October November saying there's been a big swing now back to 11 personnel and three wide receivers so I don't think this is here to stay here I have a handful of ways I want to kind of push back right I think that one push back when you bring up kind of the John Smith Hunter Henry and like what they were trying to do before like that was like we want tight ends that can catch the football and we're going to run 12 personnel we're trying to throw it the way the league is drafting now and like what the Rams had last year I think what the bills have with Jackson Haas is like we need blocking tight ends when you guys that can get on the field and that like our big and actually plus blockers against well now what everyone has drafted is these like smaller linebackers that need to go out cover and it prevent explosives and I think when you look at the success rates and you're looking like well technically last year 11 personnel people more successful it's clear that these teams do have not prepared the rosters to be competitive in 12 and 13 personnel and that's why so many tight ends were drafted what a lot of them way above consensus because the consensus score doesn't do I think a really good job of ranking blocking tight ends especially with such a hard personnel shift that like multiple GM's now are talking about like this is a change this is happening I think this is also happening in in conjunction with you know and a return to maybe more under center right and like last year the Rams were under center 60 percent of the time it was the most in the NFL by a wide margin league wide the under center percentage has dropped massively right over the last few years people wanted the out of the gun people wanted throw down field explosives all that stuff do you know league wide what percentage in 2008 I'm going like 20 years ago 18 years ago league wide what was the average for teams going under center um 2008 okay 2000 what what is it what was it this slide did you tell me what it was this last year it was 35 percent which is the highest it's been since 2017 okay I would say 73 percent 73 percent is exactly right you really are you really are alleged you go back but you go back to 2008 it was 73 percent you go back to the year 2000 it was 87 percent people under the age of 30 have no idea what the league looks like in like early like early 2000s like yeah everyone was under center everyone was running play action from this and I think this multiple tight end stuff this under center stuff teams like the the Rams had the most successful running game in the league last year and they're running under center 60 percent of the time I think there's there's a couple of components of this that feel different to the cheap motion or the push or you know the wild cat like a real personnel shift with a real change going to under center and like this being now a we are we are zicking to the zag of defenses getting lighter in their front seven to where we're going to find ways to run the football more effectively with big blocking tight ends run 12 when 13 personnel less receivers on the field and we're also going to get under center and establish a running game that doesn't rely on shotgun runs where we've seen a lot of offenses crater the bills over the bangles really struggled the chiefs have struggled I really think that this is actually here to stay and I wouldn't be surprised if this is another like five to six year swing where you start to see teams being like wait we kind of want 250 pound linebackers again right we kind of want big beef in the front seven because now offenses are adding beef and they're not coming out with trench or fields and Xavier worries all the time they're actually coming out with Nate Berkerture's and these guys that come in and can kind of kick our ass running the football and then all of a sudden get open on a drag so I really am excited decided by this personnel shift because honestly, the league was getting kind of boring, running shotgun all the time and running 11 personnel like 90% of the way. Like getting back to, we're gonna run a little 22, we're gonna run 12, we're gonna run 13, we're gonna try and run the football from under center. It just makes the league more multiple and just adds flavor and change to where I feel like defenses are getting this edge, being able to run seven men boxes and keep two safes high. I think this shift is exactly what offense needs to figure out where things are gonna go. - And then defensively everyone just will imitate Mike McDonald and say, "Look, he found a way." Yeah, he can stay in those now. Do you have hybrid defenders? Is there a big nickel? Is there a third safety? Those types of players on defense end up being pretty interesting as well. All right, we'll track it here. Listen, hipsters, we're here for you. You wanna talk 12 personnel to me next year? We could do it for a little bit. I will get cranky like Sean McFae at some point and get annoyed by it and be like everybody settled down. But for now, it's an interesting trend. - One thing you can ask is can we not focus on 13 personnel length and we just talk about it. It's like teams using multiple tight ends 'cause like 13 personnel is very specific to what the Rams were able to do because they legit have five tight ends that they really like and they've invested capital in. Not every team's gonna be able to run for 13 personnel. I think teams do though want to be able to run 12 and 22 and like have a full back a lot more now than they did, let's say two, three years. - All right, that's a request to all the hipsters from Austin Gale. Let's see if you listen to it or not. We come back, we got some more final secrets that have been revealed. All right, back on the ringer NFL show. All right, next secret that has been revealed since the end of the draft Austin. Mike McDaniel has a big voice in LA. Okay, so the charges released this video, I don't know if you saw this or not, of him telling Joe Ortiz the GM and others in the draft room that he will take his shirt off if they can find a way to get Mississippi state wide receiver Brennan Thompson in the fourth round. They did get Brennan Thompson in the fourth round. I don't think video has circulated yet of whether Mike McDaniel took his shirt off. So you have that. Then they take Florida center Jake Slaughter with the 63rd pick and the Athletics Daniel Papa wrote, Slaughter quote was a McDaniel target. Reason why that's interesting. He's gonna play guard for the Los Angeles Chargers and he was a center exclusively in college. Other interesting part of this Austin is that both of these prospects were taken over 20 spots higher than where the consensus boards had them. So everybody was excited when the Chargers hired Mike McDaniel. He said this is gonna be the best offensive coordinator that Justin Herbert has ever had. And then we're saying, Justin Herbert's the most talented quarterback Mike McDaniel has ever coached. But now, you know, in this organization that has a very strong-minded head coach in Jim Harpa, we're seeing that they're not just like, all right, McDaniel here are the players go coach. They're like, we're kind of going all in. Who do you need? Who do you want? We want you to build the best offense possible with the players who you feel like fit your offense. I'm a little surprised the degree to which this is the case, are you? And how do you think this is gonna go for the Chargers? I don't know if I'm necessarily surprised, right? I do think it's interesting to be quiet how much a GM wants alignment with their coaching staff. I think that I lean toward from the outside looking in that you kind of always want alignment, especially with Graftford Supply Collar as big as Mike McDaniel is. I'm like, what kinds of players they want, especially if like these are players that the GM has got and his team has got it that feel like they can come off the board in this range. I don't know how surprised I am. I guess like one of the takeaways from this and this is something I think is gonna build over the summer is that the Mike McDaniel pairing with Justin Herbert and Harbaugh in Los Angeles is getting to the point where everyone likes it so much that I almost like need to play that as that, right? It is very much of the, I think everyone, if you ask, if you pulled every analyst, do they like this fit that everyone's gonna say yes? I think even when it happened up like this is a slam dunk, exactly where McDaniel should go, we got to stop with the excuses for Herbert, this is how we get there. I wanted to raise to you some devil's advocate arguments on how this Mike McDaniel, Jim Harbaugh, Justin Herbert combination doesn't work in Los Angeles. Okay. You mentioned the slaughter pick, right? Career center at Florida, he's probably going to play guard. Let's say he gets the start at guard. The snaps he plays at guard in the NFL, will be the first snaps he's ever played at guard. He's got 32 and a half inch arms, a little bit on the shorter side. He's a big dog, six foot four, but we'll see. His snaps at guard will be the first he's played. And at center, they brought in Tyler Biotis. He's like five years in a row, played over 900 snaps. I think that's gonna be a sound fit, especially an upgrade over Bradley Boseman. Then at right guard, they brought in Cole Strength, who was a former first round pick for the New England Patriots out of Chattanooga, a big reach versus consensus boards, right when consensus boards were starting to get a little exciting. He has not lived up to his first round caliber. I wouldn't know if he's lived up to like day two caliber, but he's coming in. They've essentially replaced their entire interior, right? Bradley Boseman's gone, Sion Johnson's gone, and McCuy Beckton's gone, they're going three new guys. I think there's still a chance that slaughter playing his first ever snaps at guard. I think Biotis will be fine, but then you have Cole Strength, who's not really panned out anywhere he's played. He played with Mike McDaniel and Miami. We'll see how it goes. This interior offense line still could be, in my opinion, a weakness for the team. Then you see in the offseason, they brought in Charlie Colar, paid him a monster deal. I think it was three years, 24 million big money for a blocking tight end, and they brought an Alec Engel, the full back who played about 300 snaps for Miami last year. Does that hint that they want to run more 12, more 22 personnel and take receivers off the football field? If that's the case, it's not what Mike McDaniel was doing last year. Everyone mentioned 13% like I did, like all this tight end stuff is going up. Mike McDaniel was at the bottom of the league in terms of how much he was under center and how much he was running multiple tight ends. And some of that I think is a personnel issue with Miami and maybe something that's shifting in Los Angeles. Mike McDaniel might be running a brand new offense that will be opposite to what Tua was 'cause he had to cater that offense to the timing and the anticipation and the actually how he could win with Tua. So McDaniel's running a new offense with a brand new interior. And I still think even adding Brandon Thompson, real concerns with speed, like top flight speed, downfield weaponry, with the chargers receiving core. Throw an injury into the mix, which the chargers always somehow find a way to do. And all of a sudden, can't you just see how the train kind of falls off the tracks here and it's not what everyone expected? Obviously, you asked the consensus, Mike McDaniel, Herbert, this is going to work. He's one of the biggest best offense of minds in the league. But I don't know. I think there is a too good to be true element to this. And I think real concerns, like palpable concerns where you're looking at the inter-offensive line and maybe some of the changes they're gonna have to make to the offense. That'll still be, you know, I always say this every off season, bed against teams that have a ton of newness, right? How much newness is happening? They have three new starters on the offense line on the interior. You're hoping for injuries again, not a tackle. You have a brand new offensive play collar. You've got a blocking tight end that needs to see snaps 'cause you paid him a ton of money. You got a full back end that you weren't running last year. There's a lot of newness here, right? Could it be clunky out of the gate and we're maybe, you know, making excuses for Justin Herbert again in January, 2027? - I think there's a boomer bus factor to this for sure. I mean, like you said, it's easy to see how this works. Talented quarterback, great, you know, what we think is a great play collar offensive coordinator. Get the offensive tackles healthy. Good, very good head coach. There's a chance. This is the team in, you know, in 2026 where we say, all right, they finally did it. You can take, you know, take your Justin Herbert jokes and shove 'em, he's playing in the Super Bowl here. That is within the realm of realistic outcomes. But I think you nailed it with some of the ways in which this doesn't work out. And by the way, just the personalities, Mike McDaniel, Jim Harbaugh, let's see, it's fun for us. It's fun for content. If they're one in two, if they're one in three, if the offense isn't working in September or four, five weeks in, is Jim Harbaugh grabbing the keys a little bit or grabbing the steering wheel and saying, all right, this was an interesting idea that this isn't working for me. So that's possible as well. And I'm with you on kind of the secondary tertiary pass catchers there. It's still not the most talented pass catch and group. I've seen it now and let the team in receptions. Right, I mean, he's not the team anymore. But yeah, you know, beyond that, it's kind of like, all right, you got some players who could work out, but it's not guaranteed to work out. So you're right, it is a big, big change there for the chargers, the indications from the draft or that there again, going all in here with Mike McDaniel and handing him the keys. But it is going to be, they're going to be must see, I think for sure, early in the season, how is this experiment kind of working out for the chargers? All right, next secret revealed Austin, the Baltimore Ravens were deciding between three different players with the 14th pick. I love these kinds of stories, because then you can track them three years, five years down the road. And we can go, what if, what if, what if they went with this player instead? So they've had a very eventful offseason. They fired John Harbaugh, higher Jesse Minter, backed out of the Max Crosby trade in very controversial fashion. And now Michael Silver of the athletic spent draft day, Thursday with Eric DeCosta, the Ravens GM. And he reported that at the 4th, at pick 14, the Ravens were deciding between your guy, Penn State Guard, Fenga Yawane, not your guy, Oregon Titan Kenyansadeek, and then Miami-Ed Russia, Rubin Bane, Jr. Those were the three players they were deciding between. And then this had me cackling, Austin, because DeCosta told Silver that they had a deal worked out with the team picking in the teens to move back, but the trades fell through. And ready for this quote, we had something on the table, but inexplicably, they told us they changed their mind. Oh my gosh, Eric DeCosta, you know what I'm saying? Inexplicably, the goal of this guy to use that word with the trade back there. But I think the most interesting thing here is those three options, Yawane, Bane and Siddiq, do you think that three years, five years down the line will say the Ravens ended up with the right player with that pick? I think Siddiq in this spot would have been, and this is just my opinion, on just what I think Siddiq is going to be on his rookie contract, I just don't think that would have been a worthwhile investment. I think that Siddiq is one of the youngest players in this draft, I think he's one of the most talented maybe players in this draft on what he could be, but I just don't think right now with where the Ravens are, that taking him over Vengeuana or Rune Bane would have been a good process. I think Bane over Uana is something I'm willing to entertain because, honestly, everything I hear about the guy, I've watched all the tape, but then you see how he took the hat off of the Buccaneer, he feels like a Hall of Famer already, and he feels like a perfect Raven. I think Bane is very hard for me to see where Bane isn't like Melvin Ingram or Branding Ingram, there's someone that plays in the league for 10 plus years and it's just very good. I think he has this ceiling chance, obviously anytime you say, he's all a Famer like this ceiling chance to be a Hall of Famer, so that's where I entertain it. But to be honest, Baneuana kind of slid in this draft because of positional value and what that is, but there's an argument that he might be the best offensive lineman in this draft, and he feels what has been a clear, clear, clear need for the Baltimore Ravens on the interior, and even more so now that Tyler Linderbaum's gone, right? Tyler Linderbaum is now with the Las Vegas Raiders, they don't even know who's going to play at center. It's a handful of guys that are going to compete for center, but at guard, now you have Baneuana and they brought in John Simpson, a former Baltimore Raven who's bounce around the league. Who I think immediately is an upgrade over Daniel Fahlele that they had last year. And then Andrew Voorhees was going to start at guard, going into the draft, and now you have you wanted. Now, center is still going to be a question mark, but I think they made upgrades at both guard spots with Simpson and now you want a, and I think that was one of the clear weaknesses of the team last year. Center is still going to be a problem, but you're going to now protect him, right, with Ewanne and Simpson. I like the pick for the Ravens. It's kind of interesting to hear that they were considering those spots. I think Cedique would have been bad. Baneuana, I would have gone on board with right away, but Ewanneu, I think, is a slam dunk at 14. Cedique would have been fun, but I'm with you that's taken on some more risk than maybe you want to take with the 14th pick. Baneuana, if I just had a personal big board, which I didn't, I would have had Baneu probably over Ewanne. It's a premium position, and I'm with you, especially with the Ravens. You could just kind of picture him sliding in there and playing really well for them. So that's one to kind of keep an eye on, but I have no issue with them taking Ewanne at that spot. There was also another Raven secret revealed here, often, and that's that Eric DeCosta gave the owner Steve Peshotti a pick. This was in that same article that sounds like they were all maybe a little buzzed. Heaven, a few cocktails at Peshotti's Florida mansion, you know, a little offseason gathering and Peshotti. Okay, three. No, this wasn't, no, this was not, this wasn't his counseling. Yeah, no, this was, this was earlier in the offseason. Peshotti tells DeCosta, I should be allowed to make a fifth round pick. And DeCosta says, all right, I'll give you a pick 174. So Peshotti's watching the tape. He's looking at the board and he says, give me Clemson running back. Adam Randall. Now, part of this is, apparently he was friends with Tabo Sweeney. And this, you know, he is, so, let me just call Tabo, yeah, this running back. What do you think? So, I just thought here, Austin, that this goes back to rule number one to being a GM in the NFL. So, like, and I, you've always talked about this, keep the job, you know, if the owner wants a pick in the fifth round, give the owner a pick in the first fifth round. But that was interesting, that that, that became public and they kind of explained the back story there. I mean, it wasn't there, like, we, in the Matt Rule era with the Panthers, like his wife made a pick and that was like, to the Hubbard or something, like, this is not familiar. Yeah. And they really wanted Hubbard and maybe that influenced the, I think that among the things owners can say, like, give me the wheel on, right? I think a fifth round pick is, I'll take that every day of the week, right? If the owner comes in, it's like, I kind of want to make the hundred and seven fourth picking. You know, let me do that. Absolutely. How many times have we heard owner step in and say, I want to make the first overall pick? Yeah. I want to make this pay. I want to make every pick. What's the point of owning a team if you can't make a draft pick? Honestly. I think, I also think this is a nice reminder, right, for the owners of these teams that this is in a lot of ways, like, just like a fun game for them, right? The teams in the league, like, you do not, I can't stress this enough. You do not need to win games to make money hand over fist as an NFL owner when you look at the last five years, how much the floor of how much they're making from these TV deals has risen. It's 84% in just the last four years. How much more money every team is making their floor just from the TV rice deals. They can just do whatever they want. It just, in the end of the day, like, win or lose, obviously, owners want to win super balls. They want to do these things, but they know that in the day, it doesn't really matter where we're ending up. I'm making so much money. Anyway, I just want to have fun with it. I want to have a few cocktails. I want to make a fifth round pick. I want to call my buddy, Davos Sweeney. Like I said, I think on the scale of owner hijacks, this is like a one out of five, but I don't think it's that surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if there are owners that are making every pick for the team. The shot, he sort of seems like he's having maybe the most fun if any owner. I will say. Yeah. Or he's just like, this is sweet. Yeah. We're just got to pick in some players, like you said, calling my friends to go on the stage, doing some of the cladding trades. He was in, I think it said he was in the Bahamas, you know, when the crossby trade fell through his golf thing when he got the call there, which, come on, if you're golfing, you can't pick up the phone. You know, we got to keep pace with playoff. No, I don't know what place. And he might have been playing at a place where maybe it's a little more secluded than the ones I potentially will be playing at in the months ahead. All right. One more secret for you. You're left over Austin Gale draft takes, if you've got anything, you got to get off your chest. But the last secret revealed here, Austin, you mentioned the consensus sport earlier. This feels like the year of the consensus sport, you know, we talked about this before, where it's a wisdom of crowds thing. You take a bunch of different people's opinions, you put them together in a spreadsheet. I think Arif Hassan was one of the first people to do this. I believe many years ago, and now you see it all over the place. And draft coverage, and then you can compare your teams pick to the consensus sport. And it's not to say you shouldn't pick the players. You like more than the consensus is to say, well, maybe you could have maneuvered a little bit. And maybe you could have moved down a little bit. If that was the player, you're going to pick right there. So the secret revealed here, Austin, is that the 49ers do not care about your freaking consensus sport, okay? They took Ole Miss wide receiver to Sean's dribbling at 33. He was 71 on the consensus board, one of the biggest reaches of day two. Overall, you look at their draft, just overall very low. If you believe in the consensus board analysis, and this isn't the first time that that's happened with the San Francisco 49ers, John Lynch was asked about it. And he said, that's where we had them on our draft board. And we had a lot of conviction. Austin, so what do you think has the consensus board analysis gone too far? Are you with John Lynch? Are you against John Lynch? Where do you stand here? I don't think this would surprise you as a data guy, but I have a lot of takes on the consensus board. I don't know. I actually don't know. I'm a huge fan of the consensus board one. I think it's, you know, the fact that every off season, you know, we go through this four month process to the NFL draft, right? I think the NBA draft is like right after the season ends, like the MLB draft doesn't matter because none of these guys play right away. The NFL draft, there's like four months where no one plays football. People like go out and shorts and throw the ball around and it changes things and run 40 yard dashes. Like four months. So what has happened in that four months because the NFL is the NFL and they try to make it at 12 month around the clock product is that a lot of people in the media make draft boards, right? Dan Brugler of the athletic is fantastic. He ranked 2,000 players in this draft class, Daniel Jeremiah, former scouts, does it for the NFL? Bucky Brooks. And I've got Mel Kuiper, who's like started it, Todd Machet here at the ringer. A lot of guys, former scouts, not former scouts, watch all the tape, talk to a ton of teams in league and they create these boards. What Arifason has done, starting 10 years ago, has taken all those boards and put them into an aggregate to say like, hey, this is kind of the aggregate of how media and front facing boards, how they feel about the draft and what has borne out in the data is right around like the first 100, first 150 picks. You actually see that the consensus board is close to, if not better than drafting players according to like NFL war, then where teams are. I think where the consensus board falls off is like after 100, 150 because media oftentimes doesn't have like the resources and the ability to scout that deep into the draft. And that doesn't even get into the full information. Yeah. They don't have injury stuff. They don't know like how this player interview. They don't know the off the field stuff, like Ruben Bay, all that stuff. Like they don't have that. So like, you have to kind of take it with a grain of salt. Why I feel like the consent, I'm calling it the consensus big board war one. There could be a future war, but maybe a world war two or a three. Why I think this happened this year? And this is something from Lance Zierlein, who he's talked to a bunch of teams. He does stuff to the NFL. He's been writing to the draft forever. He saw that teams did not have a lot of first and second round grades on players in this class. Right. The NFL is affecting this. A lot of good players are returning to school. We saw that with Dante Moore for organ, a lot of other players, nine quarterbacks doing the same thing. So teams did not have high grades on a lot of the players in this class. So the variance on who they were going to take was going to vary with need, vary with this new thing with like people wanting to draft tight ends. I think blocking tight ends like broke the consensus board. Almost by themselves. And then obviously you have this variance because this draft ultimately was not that good. I think in future years, the consensus board could get better, but this year it kind of broke it. Where I feel like I stand on all of this, is that like for the 49ers specifically, this is something they have done on trend, right? Warren Sharp had that tweet where like versus the consensus board in terms of reaches, they ranked inside like the bottom three or four each of the last four years. And when you look at specifically the skill players, they've taken on day two and day three, not a lot of those guys have panned out. And bring up Debo Samuel, Debo Samuel was a steal compared to the consensus board, right? Now, I don't think we should use consensus boards to evaluate, did they draft well or not? Is that player going to be good? Right? use a consensus board. The consensus board, how it informs you, is like, you probably took this player too high. And if you liked it, you probably could have waited. And when you compare it to, I'm going to shout out the Carolina Panthers, one of my best friends was at my bachelor party as their assistant analytics, like the number two to their head of analytics Eric Eager. They have one of the best boards, according to the consensus board of the best drafts, according to the consensus board, because it kind of sat there and took guys where they were supposed to go or kind of took guys when they were falling versus consensus. Right? And I think you're going to end up doing that. If you do that 10 drafts in a row, you're going to have better process and only bear out. I think, you know, better hit, a better hit rate than if you go all straight. Yeah, you kind of look at the teams where that, you know, that rank highly. It's kind of the teams you would say these teams generally do a pretty good job. And last thing I'll say about it too, because I'm going on here. But like the 49ers when he grand cone, excellent, excellent question, asked them like versus the consensus board, you're reaching a lot and it kind of made Shanahan and Lynch upset in that presser. They're like, we have consensus in the building. And like, that's exactly what the consensus board's supposed to tell you what other people are thinking about this draft class. So you don't just go in like you're, and you just draft guys and you overdraft versus what you could have got them for. You look at James Gladstone. He had this quote that he put out voluntarily. He's like, we put a player in every spot where we're going to draft. And this is where we're going to tell him, he literally honed in on players with all this information on how other teams are going to look at him and said, we're going to overdraft kind of like concerning that quote, Austin. It's terrible. It's terrible. This is, it's bad process to only make decisions on the draft with people in your building, right? Because this is a game. You're playing against other people. You're playing against how other teams do this class. And the consensus board oftentimes over the last 10 years informs you where these guys are going to go, right? And if you miss out on one player, because oh, we thought he was going to go later, we use, we were, we were due by the consensus board. Do not be, I always say this, one of you mentioned draft roles. Don't be over confident in your own evaluation, right? And if like, you are so overconfident that this one player that everyone has already passed on, like two times is going to be your guy, you're ultimately going to end up in a bad spot more often than not because no one really knows how these guys are going to pan out. That's the one thing we know about the draft is that really there's so many variables and how this guy's going to see the field, how he's going to develop what his off field habits are, all this stuff. No one really knows who's going to be hit and who's not. So when you're making picks, just with the consensus inside your building and not taking outside opinions, you're ultimately going to be end up where the Jags are, I think, with how they've drafted, we're with Niners or with how they've drafted on days two and three. And to your point, this is not a media versus the NFL thing. There are teams in the NFL. I don't want to just say smart teams because what is a smart team? But yes, there are teams in the NFL with smart people saying, okay, there's a way to incorporate this into our model. You heard more GMs this year saying, we ran simulations to figure out what's this guy going to be available or not at our spot. Like you said, it is a game. There are projections. Hey, we want, but you know, we have these five players ranked in the same tier. Can we move back? What would it take for us to move back? All those things, these are all the things you're trying to figure out. James Gladstone said, we did a thing where, you know, to your point where we mocked the 10 players, we were going to think get where the 11 players were going to get at these spots and we ended up with 10 of them. Like that, I don't think that's a good thing. That means that you were taking them ahead of the rest of the NFL and what players were you passing up? Could you have maneuvered more in those spots to get those players? So yeah, teams are attacking it in a different way. Everything you said, you know, about the use of contested sports. I of course agree with because we are out. You know, we like a little data. We like a little analytically minded thinking, but again, this isn't us versus, hey, this isn't how it works in the NFL. There are teams in the NFL incorporating these things into their modeling, into their process. All right, Austin, let's finish any draft leftovers. You are a person who just the wheels never stopped spin. You're thinking about what's happening in the NFL at all times. And so I figured I would open the floor. If you have something to get off your chest, one or two things to get off your chest, whatever, open the floor to you because I, you know what? I think I've mostly said what I need to say about the draft so far. You know, I wanted to open this up. And this, I don't know how close this is to like a draft leftover as much as this. Now that the roster is set, and I'm kind of able to kind of for the first time really get a feel for who I think the starting 11 on both sides of the ball are going to be for these teams when we start in September. I reminded by the idea or the fact that we have 17 new offensive play callers in 2026. We're going to be 17 teams are going to have a play collar that is brand new. Five of them are going to be first year play callers, right? That's Declan Doyle for the Ravens, Davis Webb for the Broncos, which is hilarious because Sean Payton is giving Davis Webb the opportunity to call plays. So he doesn't lose Davis Webb to another team, right? It's still crazy. Where the league is kind of going. I have some, I have some thoughts. Davis Webb, Sean Manu, who's coaching the league for like less than five years, never called plays was a former back up like 10 years ago. David Blau for the commanders who was another former quarterback has never called plays before. He's only been coaching for a little bit of time and then Brian Flurry, who's replacing Clint Cubiak, the Seattle Seahawks, he's never called plays for really young guy. Then you have a lot of, you know, the 17 or a lot of guys who've called plays before, but in new places. What I think could be happening with offensive play callers here soon. And I look at the Eagles draft where they brought in McCye lemon. And now I'm one of the first things that Danny Kelly said. I sit right next to him. He's like, McCye lemon, gentlemen, Hurst doesn't really throw over the middle of the field. And I think this really helps them over the middle of the field. And then they got Eli Stowers. I'm like, Oh man, that's another guy. They're probably going to try and play in the slot. He's going to be over the middle. That's another over the middle of the field thing. And then one of the things I think we talked about this before that I took away from that ESPN hit piece on Jalen Hertz is I think the Eagles are more committed long term to Sean Manion than they are Jalen Hertz because I think what is now in Vogue is you need to be early on an offensive play call. And that's why Sean Manion is calling plays next year. That's why David Blau is calling plays next year. And for me, with these offensive play callers becoming, you know, you're betting earlier and early on them and you're trying to fit fit to what they want what they're doing. I do think that we are in this spot now where offensive play caller might be as important as like quarterback at this point where like you're developing a quarterback, right? You're developing a quarterback trying to figure out who it's going to be. You almost need to develop an offensive play caller that you can figure out how to keep in house. If not name him the head coach or figure out what it's going to be. Or else, you're not going to have longevity in this lead, right? Josh McDaniels is locked into an offensive play caller position with the New England Patriots as long as he wants to be because he's failed as the head coach twice. Three times if you count, though whatever happened with the coach. Then you look at these other, the, the, the Buccaneer situation. Todd Boles, let Dave Canalis walk, right? He's now head coach of the Panthers. He's lifting, I think, the floor of that offense. Then Liam Cohen, he goes, he's now, I think, one of the top five offensive play callers and lead the only reason that Jaguars are relevant. Ben Johnson, he leaves Detroit, right? Detroit has a terrible offensive season last year. They couldn't run the ball successfully. Some people bling the offense line, whatever. When you look at the first year, Dan Campbell took over as the head coach. His offensive play caller was Anthony Lynn. Jared Goff was terrible. The offense was trash. Then Ben Johnson gets promoted. It changes the entire trajectory of the team for the first time in like a hundred blush years. Then he leaves. And now there's already hot seat. They're bringing in Drew Petsing. They had to fire an offensive play caller. Here we are. Having an offensive play caller that you're early on, that you're developing, that you can kind of stay committed in the thing. I mean, we brought up Sean Peyton. Sean Peyton is giving up offensive play calling duties. For the first time, I think it is career because he wants to keep this Davis Web guy who feel like could be a future offensive play call in the NFL. I honestly think so much attention and resources are being given to these play callers. And in some situations, even more so than the quarterbacks, because I think it's arguably as important as quarterback, if not one of the most important positions you have on your team. Okay, but here's the issue in terms of longevity and whether this is sustainable. I don't disagree about their importance. However, you just mentioned it. Seventeen new play callers in the NFL this season. If Sean Manion leads the Eagles to a top five offense this season, probably a head fire mix, Sireani, and you make him the head coach. I don't think we have almost that. That always never happens. That's happened. Let Sean Manion walk, though. Okay, but that never happens. That's that. That's not how it's even you're gonna. So let's say they have a good season. Let's say they get to the MC championship. Now you're firing the coach who's got new to the NFC championship game three times and the owners don't operate that way. So now he leaves and he's gonna go somewhere else, Davis Webb. If he actually keeps this job, which I've talked to me in November about whether show. Over under seven and a half weeks before Peyton starts calling play. Yeah. I mean, we've discussed this before Peyton's doing this to make himself look good. He'll take the play going back. But let's say that doesn't happen. And Davis Webb does a great job under Sean Peyton. And the Broncos offense takes this major leap. Now he's gone the next year. So this is the issue when it's not your head coach. Who's that guy? When's the head coach? Who's that guy? McVeigh, Shanahan, Laflour, whoever else you want to point to. Great spot to be in. They're calling plays. They're there for the long haul. You can bring in different personnel. You can hope you get lucky one year with defensive turnover or a great defensive coordinator. But when it's the young offensive coordinator who you hire, you do run into an issue where that guy's probably not going to be there for that one. Yeah. And I think that has changed. I honestly think that what the bucks have done with Dave Canales and Liam Cohen has hurt their football team. It's hurt them. And I think that there are going to be other teams in similar situations where I mean, I'm not saying the lion should have fired Dan Campbell to keep Ben Johnson. But at a certain point if you're a lion's fan and you had truth serum, would you say you rather have Ben Johnson Dan Campbell? Wow. That's a great question. I wonder what that would say. What a lion's fan would say right now? Shocked. I would bet eight or nine out of nine out of ten lions fans are saying I'd rather have been Johnson because it ultimately, I mean, the diners have drafted poorly over the last three or four years. Everyone's on that. Why are the diners still like a perennial playoff team? Why have they been able to figure out even with the seventh round the last pick the NFL draft to figure out quarter back? Because they have an offensive play collar that raises the floor in the ceiling. Sean McVeigh with the Los Angeles Rams. Like, these are the most valuable people in the league. And that's part because what you pay them is not tracked on the salary cap. Like, you can pay them whatever you want. You can give them whatever contract you want. Sean Bruno got a 10-year contract to call plays as the head coach for the Raiders when he came back. Like, these guys are more important to the success of your football team than arguably anybody else. Because the second you don't have one is the second this team starts to slip. And when you need to start making slips and start making changes. I honestly feel that the Sean Manion bet, the David Blau bet. Have we seen this before? Have you seen a first-year offensive play collar come in and only have two or three years of coaching experience? I can't remember it, can you? - No, I mean-- - Well, you say, this is why the league is changing. You're like, yeah, the leagues don't operate this way. The leagues have never done this before. Sean Manion, David Blau, our calling players for teams next year. Declarator Doyle is a first-year offensive play collar. Davis Webb is taking play collar duties from Sean Payton. The league is changing because they know if we don't have this guy locked in, our team can't take the top off. Our team can't go the distance. It's the only reason, not the only reason, but a driving reason why the Seattle Siac's offense was able to hit the Super Bowl the way they did. And unlock San Gronel, it's just Cubiac, was this kind of next thing. And now all of a sudden, obviously, he's gone and we're gonna have to try and do the same thing. I think there's gonna be a lot of pressure on Brian Flurry and Tru Petsing and these guys to come in and immediately do it 'cause they'll be the first to blame by fans and the team, probably, if the offense isn't working out. - And listen, if those guys are really good and they like their situation, it doesn't mean they have to leave right away. Ben Johnson stayed longer than we thought Ben Johnson was going to stay. He said, "Let me wait for the right opportunity. I'm gonna sit this year round." So that could happen where you keep a guy. I mean, it's almost like if you are able to keep one of those guys for three years, that's a great stretch, and then you have to find the next guy, can you build a pipeline? Can you have a quarterback's coach under him who's really good, who's really talented, but inexperienced, now he's the next guy you bring in. It is a big storyline happening in the NFL and the way those guys perform in 2026. I mean, that'll go a long way in just determining which teams are good and which teams. - It's over half the league. - Over half the league. It's crazy. - It's crazy, all right. His name is Austin Gale, bringing the juice. As usual, thank you to Austin. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Conor Nevans and Arjuna Rangopal. I'm Shield Kapati, we will talk to you next time on The Ringer NFL Show. 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