SECRETS OF PRODUCING ‘HER’ with VINCENT LANDAY

Welcome to the Movie Business Podcast, picking up where Movie Business book left off. I'm Jason Squire hosting a wide range of industry talent and executives to answer fundamental questions about the business today. Here we go. And we're discussing the making of her with Oscar-nominated producer Vincent Landay, renowned for his collaboration with Director Spike Jones on Being John Malkovich, adaptation, where the wild things are, and her. They've worked on music videos for artists including Jay-Z and REM and a range of commercials. Vincent has collaborated with other creatives from David Fincher to David Lynch, helped co-create vice studios, created virtual reality content for Facebook and Google, and served as executive producer on season 5 of Noah Hawley's Emmy award-winning series Fargo. Welcome Vincent. Hi Jason, so great to be here with you. Well I'm happy as well, it's just wonderful to have you on the podcast, gosh. So let me ask you, as you look back, what are the secrets of producing her? Well, the secret, which is no secret, is that it takes a village to make a movie. And I was lucky to have two great producing partners in Spike Jones and Megan Ellison, not to mention all the other folks on our team. But for me, the traits that mattered most on her were patience and trust. Like you've been nurturing the story for years, and when you finally sent me, I implored the first draft, I was blown away. It was one of the best scripts I'd ever read, deeply personal, but universally resonant. And my role was to create the space for that vision to grow without compromise. You know, that meant getting Spike Roomed experiment, protecting the intimacy of the story while managing the scale, and making sure the practical never undercut the emotional. You know, producing to me is about holding that delicate balance, so the film feels effort lists on screen even though behind the scenes it's anything but. You know, it's a remarkable movie, Oscar-winning movie, and there are so many questions I have about the making of a movie, but I'm more concerned also about process. So let's turn to Spike Jones for a second. How would you characterize his directing technique? Well, Spike directs with curiosity and empathy. He's meticulous about detail, but, but thrives on spontaneity. You know, he has this rare gift of making a set feel both playful and serious at the same time. He'll often shift a scene with like a single question or a comment that reframes everything, and it opens the door for actors to find something true in the moment. Wow, it just means also that people, of course, need to be on their toes and proactive, even though that you used to say that ideally, that should be the case on every set. What is the tone of the set of Spike Jones movie? Well, they're all all incredibly different, you know, on where the wild things are, because we're trying to get a performance from a young child. Spike wanted the set to have a playful child-like atmosphere, and so a lot of our crew have worked together for years, all had family with children around the character Max's age, see encouraged people to come to set and play around and do things so that the actor didn't turn into an adult on set. You know, I think in general, Spike doesn't tell actors what to feel. He does things like that to set up conditions where they can discover it themselves, and he is adamant about avoiding anything that might feel artificial or clinical. And even on her, where we basically had one actor for the majority of the film on camera, his approach was always about finding the human note, you know, because for Spike and most of us, the story's never about technologies, about people. And of course, preparation is typical, right? Anything unusual in a pre-production memory of her or maybe a different movie? Something unexpected? Well, I mean, I guess sadly, you don't have enough time on this podcast for all the unexpected ones. No. Oh, gosh. I think on her, I wouldn't say it was unexpected, but one of the challenges was here we have an actor who has to perform opposite a voice, not a physical human. So how do we get the performance and be out as an audience, feel about that? Like is that going to work? And luckily, you know, watching Phoenix agreed to do the film. He's the first actor we reached out to. He's so amazing. And we wanted to support him in the best way possible. So we built a portable sound booth where an actress could work from as the voice of Samantha and in that booth, what he couldn't see her. And again, this is all done in conjunction with him to make sure it's what he needs as an actor for his performance. And we felt like that was the closest thing we could bring him to what his character was experiencing. So literally in the pre-production office, we've got basically a film booth. And then so when we're filming, Spike would sit off camera quietly giving direction to the actress by a headset mid-take to hone the performances in real time. And I think I feel like that created a sense of intimacy that you can feel in the film. Let's turn to post-production. Is there anything worth pinpointing about the techniques of how you and Spike work through the essential segment of post-production? Well, you know, I started my career in post-production and that's when I was working with David Fincher and David Lynch and some of those folks. And so it's always been a very important aspect of the process to me. I think what I've learned working with Spike is it's the writing process ongoing. So as we're editing, he is constantly rewriting and reshaping the film. And we've been lucky that our films have a certain sense of leniency for that because there has been so much off camera voice work in all of our movies. But he never sees always looking to make the best film and never stops writing and trying to create that great film until the mix is complete. We've rewritten on the mixing stage. So it's that tenacity to really make the film the best it can be. Very good. When I'm including her throughout your career, what are some of the lessons learned? Well, I love what I do because I'm constantly learning something new. One big one is, no two films are alike. Each has its own DNA. There's no single formula. You can't just repeat what worked the last time. Another's that relationships matter as much as scripts or budgets. If you surround yourself with people you trust and respect, the work stays inspired even when the process gets hard. I mean, making a movie is a long and often difficult process and those relationships are what will carry you through. I also believe in perpetual optimism, overcoming challenges and achieving greatness by keeping everyone motivated towards a common goal. But balancing that with reality so it doesn't slip into wishful thinking kind of feel like that's producing in a nutshell. Specifically on her, I would say the lesson was restraint. The temptation with a future story is to lean into gadgetry, but spike in our production designer, KK Barrett, were adamant about avoiding cliches of a cold tech heavy future. I feel like we see that so often and spike was just why does that need to be the future? Why can't it be more hopeful? And so every choice you saw from a production design aspect on her was about warmth, intimacy, a subtle evolution, there were soft fabrics, natural light, the architecture that felt inviting rather than alienating. And I think that restraint reinforced the relationship being of the movie. Gee, that sounds good. Now here's a slightly different kind of question. We all have a sense of how difficult and demanding the timing is during production. How do you get enough sleep? That is a great question. I wonder if producers are related to bears. I feel like I probably hibernate between projects and sleep a lot. I'm too excited, it's exciting making a movie, so it's not just the long hours, it's like I want to be awake, I want to make this. We feel very fortunate to be doing what we do. So can I also ask the interpersonal question, certainly, you've already discussed the importance of diplomacy. What about the difficulty in having, maintaining a personal relationship while you're in a very demanding production schedule, either local or overseas? Yeah, that's a great question because a lot of times you aren't in the same place at the same time and throughout the writing process on her, for instance, Spike was writing in New York, I was in Los Angeles, and while he was writing, we spent months looking for a city escape that felt recognizable and futuristic, so we pulled hundreds of architectural references to help him out and our production designer, TK, defined the world. The goal was a near future that felt organic, not designed in a lab, and the three of us then scouted in Asia and in the end, we blended Los Angeles and Shanghai, sometimes in the same shot, and that meant now we're dealing with both a Los Angeles-based crew, many of which are familiar, they're family, but also a Chinese-based crew and we're working long distance with them. And for me as a producer, I guess I feel an ultimate responsibility to make sure that all of those relationships and pretty much the vibe of the project is one of just one that everybody thrives their best in what they do, and that can be challenging as you pointed out, given the pressures of production. And another question about production, or hiring people, if there is a list of bewares, is there a beware that comes to mind, don't hire a relative, that kind of thing, I don't know. Beware of people who haven't been vetted by a good source. Yeah, I think, you know, when you're building a team, you know, whether it's a football team or a production team, you're looking for complimentary skills and no one person shows up with everything, so as you're building it, it's like, oh, this person is great at that. But when we bring in this other person, we need somebody stronger in this or things like that. I don't know about the cautionary aspect of it, but again, going back to your previous question because you're together for so long, you know, under a pressure cooker, it's really important that everybody is in sync both creatively, but personality wise too. And I know that can sound super subjective, but it's important to getting the job done. That's really a good point, it's, there's nothing like asking these questions from someone who has done it many times that had extraordinary results. I want to ask another kind of review question about your advice that might give to those who want to become movie producers, they don't just become a movie producer, right? You got to like, there are different paths, but it's not easy and it's not a lot of money at first. Yeah, yeah, no, that's for sure. I guess my number one advice would be don't chase trends. By the time your movie's finished, the trend will be over. So find the filmmakers and stories you believe in and commit to them because producing is a marathon, not a sprint. And you need to learn the whole ecosystem, the creative, the financial, the nuts and bolts of production, you know, the best producer speak all those languages fluently. There's this old LA times cartoon that I love, I've kept it posted in the various offices that I've worked in, a producer wears many hats. And it shows the same person in a beret, devil's horns, a bride, a veil, and a monster mask. And it's pretty accurate in some cases though, I'd probably swap out a couple of those. But you know, on her, I'd bounce from conversations about performance, to the financing plan, to figuring out how to make a futuristic elevator work the way Spike wants it to work. And that's the job. So again, you know, can you someone people want to spend months or years with? Because this, this business runs on trust and endurance as much as it tastes. Very good point. Thank you. And let's so widen to ask about the future. Where do you think we're going? Where are things headed for this crazy business? Well, I mean, the business is always in flux. That's changed distribution models shift, but the appetite for original voices doesn't go away. Right. I mean, right now it's a very challenging landscape for mid-budget, distinctive films. But I believe those are the ones that stand the test of time. And films like her that feel emotionally specific yet resonate universally. So I'd say what excites me is how the younger generation engages with entertainment. It's not only where they watch like on a phone, in theaters, in virtual reality, but how they process stories. They're used to non-linear structures, fragmented narratives, worlds that live across platforms. And I think instead of resisting those changes or worrying that attention spans are shrinking, I think we should embrace that and experiment. Oh. Very inspiring, sir. This has been a remarkable, helpful conversation, and I'm so pleased you could be with us. And also want to congratulate you again on these movies that have stood the test of time, being John Malkovich, adaptation, where the well things are. And especially her, thank you so much for taking time to discuss the work on her and other projects, producer Vincent Landay. Thank you, Vincent. Oh, thanks so much, Jason, it was my pleasure.