SECRETS OF MY ‘JAWS’ JOURNEY with PETER SAPHIER

Welcome to the Movie Business Podcast, picking up where Movie Business Book left off. I'm Jason Squire, hosting a wide range of industry talent and executives to answer fundamental questions about the business today. Here we go. We're celebrating the 50th anniversary of the release of JAWS with Peter Safier, a veteran producer and creative executive at studios, including Universal and Paramount. At Universal, he acquired JAWS, co-produced Scarface and supervised over 150 movie and television projects. Career highlights include working with Stephen Spielberg, Clint Eastwood, James Cameron, Al Pacino, Oliver Stone. Sylvester Stallone and Michelle Pfeiffer, among others. Peter is a member of the Motion Picture Academy, evaluated screenplays for the Academy's Nicole Fellowships in screenwriting for 20 years, and runs a consulting firm for producers and screenwriters. Welcome Peter. Thank you very much. Well, thanks so much for being here. You know, I guess we should start by, as we celebrate the 50th anniversary, we should turn back the clock and ask, "What are the secrets of your JAWS journey?" The best way to talk about the secrets of my JAWS journey is to tell you chronologically how the property came into my head. In April of 1973, 52 years and two months ago, but who's counting? Who's counting, Peter? Yes. I got a call from an agent friend of mine and he said, "Peter, I've got a wonderful property. It's in manuscript form. It's called JAWS." And I said, "John, what's it about?" And he said to me, "It's about a shark that menaces an east coast town." And I said, "John, you just don't go into the water." He said, "Peter, read the book." So I read the book over a weekend. On the following Monday morning, I brought it to my then boss, Jennings Lang, who was a movie mogul at a top executive in Universal Studios at the time. And I said to him, "I found this wonderful book and I'd like to recommend it to you and recommend that we buy it." And he said, "Here's what I want you to do. I'm going to first talk to my friends over at the William Orders Agency and see if we can get Paul Newman interested." He said, "I'll read the book over the weekend. I want you to go to the head of physical production at the studio to see, based on your description of the book, what the production problems are. And lastly, I want you to bring it to the studio's story department, to get their evaluation tomorrow on everybody's executives and producers' tasks at the studio. And so I followed those orders. But first, he said to me, "I'm going to call Lou Wasserman, who is the head of the studio. And I'm going to tell him that you're going to bring him the book. And I want you to write a memo to him." So he called Wasserman and then I wrote a memo. And the essence of the memo was that the agent who gave it to me told me there were substantial interest in the property around town and that he felt there would be a deal by the middle of the week. This was Monday. The middle of the week would be Wednesday. And I said to Wasserman that I found the novel to be very exciting, one which suggests an enormously commercial film. And it could possibly be something that Alfred Hitchcock would be interested in. Now that's so much I knew, back in 1973. And so I brought the book up to Wasserman with the memo. I went to give the book to the head of the story department and on the next, the next morning I got a call from the head of the story department, Mrs. Deeter, please come down and talk to me. I went to see him and he said, "The reader did not like the book." This is the first secret of the Jaws saga. Story department of Universal Studios did not like the book. So therefore they did not stamp the nine pages in options with recommended across the top. They didn't even stamp it as a possibility. They sent it out to everybody. And like 95% of the memos that we got to the story department, they'd be put into the circular file. Well, it turns out that the next day on Wednesday, I heard the following. He produces David Brown and Dick Zannick who had a contract at Universal, discussed it because David Brown was on a plane going to New York saying, "Dick, they're all talking about this book Jaws. We've got to find it." And Zannick and Brown called up Wasserman and said, "Yes, I have it. I got it from Peter Safier." And they said, "Well, we want to buy it." And so that is actually how it unfolded. And within a couple of weeks, there was a deal. And the second secret that I'm going to reveal to you is that upon the conclusion of the deal, Dick Zannick and David Brown came over to my table and the Universal commentary and they said, "Peter, thank you very much for bringing this book in." And I said, "So how do you see this movie?" And they said, "Well, probably we'll do it for about three quarters of a million dollars." And I said, "With a shark, with kids, water, well, medium million." So that's the story of how I brought Jaws into the studio. So they really saw it as a lower budget movie? That's correct. I mean, a million dollars, even in that decade, there was still a low number. Pretty astonishing. It is. It is. But that's the movie business. That's exactly right. So you had the honor and pleasure of following the progress up to that and giving it to Spielberg and having it all set up and all the issues during production that we are learning much more about through the journalism and material online, celebrating the 50th anniversary. It must give you a really big kick. Congratulations. It gives you a big kick because, frankly, I don't think that the studio would have done the movie had it and not brought it in. Yes. So somebody else would have just snatched it up and it would be a totally different movie. The other thing I'll mention to you, Jason, is that they told me, those agents told me, when he gave me the book, that the paperback rights were going to be auctioned off probably that following Wednesday for half a million dollars. And at that time, paperback rights were a gigantic car venture of what they expected the book to do. Therefore, it was just about a guarantee that this book would have been off the market in two days after I talked to Jennings Lang about it in Washington. And Stephen Spielberg was on the lot. So that was a very helpful way of making the deal with the director. Absolutely. He was on the lot and he had done a movie or two already. He had done dual, which everybody had been raving about and he did another movie, Sugar Land Express. He was an addict and Brown and as a result, he got charged. Wow. This is such a great history. It's really illuminating. Thank you again, Peter. Looking back over your really impressive career, what are some of the lessons learned? The primary lesson that I learned as a young executive working my way through the ranks at the studio is to stick to my opinion, not let other people dissuade me because of this side of the other thing. There's one short story I'll mention to you that I like to recount because it has to do with that very thing. I used to attend with the movie department Wednesday morning meetings with the whole department about 15 of us. And one day I pitched this wonderful property. I won't tell you what it is until I finished the story within two minutes. And people said, oh, it's a television movie. Forget about it. The next week, I brought it up again. Each time I got up and walked around the table, I said, this is a book that you really have to get your hands on. It's fantastic. Now, we don't see it. The third week in a row, I did the same thing. And finally, my boss said, Peter, come up to my office. I went to his office and he said, you really want that book? I said, yes, I do. And he said, OK, you got it. In other words, passion was able to deliver the goods, even though a lot of people tried to talk me out of it. The property turned out to be ordinary people. Oh, man. We never thought ordinary people because it was that Viking books, they held the rights and made an offer. And then a day later, he said to me, bad news, Robert Redford is coming in to see the head of Viking. And he ended up offering half the amount. And therefore, we did not get the property because Robert Redford ended up with it at paramount. Anyway, the point of the story is stick to your guns. Don't change your mind, don't let other people influence you. A second lesson I learned, don't play politics. When you're in a large bureaucratic organization, it's very easy to get pushed to and fro by political wins. When I was proposed a novel of John Aspie, he said, well, who do I go to? Do I go to the sky? Do I go to you? And I said, well, that guy over there is, somebody who's always fighting us with properties. And he will not get to Lewasch from the boss. I will get to Lewasch from the boss and give it to me. What's interesting, Jason, is that the university was bought by MCA, the agency, and the agency dictated that time was, have the executives compete with each other, they get better results out of them that way. And that's the way the agents worked and that's the way the executives worked. Therefore, I had to steer clear of those political wins by just basically sticking to my guns and telling people honestly what I could do. And the third, I wanted to repeat, because they don't compromise your taste. If you really, really like something, stay with it, don't alter it. Just to satisfy what you think the political or taste wins are at the time. Well, you certainly have fabulous commercial taste because, of course, ordinary people went on to be best picture of the year. So these are the ups and downs of being an executive at a studio, Peter. I know. Well, I went through those ups and downs, but I was there for 20 years, so I have to say it was mainly enough. That's wonderful. Oh, good. Good. Now, you've already discussed some of the lessons learned. Can we convert that to overall advice to those who want to enter the business? Yes, I can, as a matter of fact, my first piece of advice, Jason, would be for a young person to do a very honest self appraisal of what her career goal should be. In other words, the brutally honest, are you a creator? Are you better off somebody who would work in the executive ranks? You have to be honest with yourself. I found that a lot of people, younger people, were idealistic about their writing ability whether they want to be a director or why be an actor. I found that when I looked at myself in the mirror, I did not think that I would be a particularly great producer. I'd probably be a better executive, and so that's the route that I went. So being brutally honest with yourself in your self appraisal. If you want to write, if you want to become a writer, don't hesitate. Start writing immediately. This is really, really good advice, because as you write, script after script, you hone your craft, Jason, you know that better than anybody because you were a writer. If you want to produce, look for material, or an idea, or a book, or a notion, or a news piece, any kind of story that you think might be good for television or movies. And then find advocates, see if you can find the advocates that will support your idea. If you want to act, take classes. If you want to direct, start with an iPhone and do something a five minute piece with your iPhone. If you want to get into the business side, then go into a mail room of maybe an agency and learn the business that way. That's exactly the way Barry Diller did it without a college education. That's my advice. Very good. And there's a great Barry Diller autobiography that's out now, as you know, and so that's really good advice. And is there anything else you would advise to screenwriters specifically? And don't shy away from a good story, you know, no matter how peculiar the business gets in terms of what is now currently playing in a movie theater and what, you know, used to be wonderful two hour dramas from movie theaters, don't play there anymore. Don't give up on your idea. And I think that as far as I'm concerned, no matter how our business evolves, whatever direction it takes, there's always going to be a room for it. There's always going to be room for a good story. This is a very good advice indeed. Let's, let's look at the crystal ball for a minute and ask about how you see the future of the business. Where do you think things are heading, Peter? Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking about that. And as far as the movie business concerns, I'll speak to that, I'll speak about that first. As we've seen, there's always going to be room in movie theaters for spectacle. Marvel movies, probably made 33 or 34 of them, and they generated a ton of money. They're beginning to fade now, but they're being replaced by DC Comics. And with Warner Brothers and DC Comics has Superman out now and they have, you know, rather high hopes for some of their other spectacles. So I think the large spectacle movie will continue to work. The other type of movie that I think will work in movie theaters will be horror type films. There's nothing comparable to being in a closed dark environment than a movie theater to get an audience excited about horror. A good example to sinners, which is a film that's out right now, which has done very, very well, a very unusual vampire story. Right. So there's hope for the movie business. In that sense, however, there's 39,000 screens. And unfortunately, there's too many screens for the amount of movies that really are allowed by exhibitors to be played. So there's going to have to be some real invention decided on in terms of how to use those theaters or what to turn those theaters into because this type of product will not support 39,000 screens. As far as television is concerned, I think television, generally speaking, has gotten exponentially better with dramas being played out in many series. I was always frustrated at Universal during those years I was there when we were doing very well with one-hour series and sometimes 90-minute series. And they were experimenting with movies of the week and did not allow for the proper adaptation of books except for occasionally long form, missionary type books like Centennial and some of the others that they did like roots, which did play out. Now, this has become a regular feature of quality television, which is known as streaming. So in that sense, I think that there's a very nice future because it's an enormous amount of content that is being allowed to be played on that medium. The other thing I should mention is that the taste in the younger audiences that used to go to the movies now is turned to tablets and iPhones and stars now are influencers. This has completely changed our business. So the demographics of the people going to the theater or even watching television has changed. The younger generations, the Gen X's and the Gen Alphas, they're not as interested in movies or television. They're interested in their tablets and that kind of communication and that kind of entertainment. So as far as the evolution of that, that's unpredictable. Lastly, there's AI. AI has changed everything, changed the whole creative dynamic of our business and everybody's kind of on the defensive now. And so it's impossible to predict in this industry and in most industries where AI is going to take us. I think it's an existential problem. That's such a good review of what's going on. Thank you, Peter. It's true that the industry is in a perplexing transition period and it's being guided by the current end users who are the younger generations. As you say, I'm just repeating for emphasis who really don't have the first choice going to the movies and it becomes generational and it's not going to turn around and this makes theatrical a more of a challenge for anybody who is aiming for theatrical. But on the other hand, there are more screens, meaning personal screens, more access for creators and the sky's the limit. But it is a very exciting period of transition at the moment, isn't it? It is. In the bottom line, as I said to you before, Jason, as I say to everybody who's listening, story is king. If you have a good story, you're going to be able to figure out how to make it work one way or another. Well, this has been terrific advice and I'm so glad to be able to chat about all this with you, Peter. It's been a pleasure and congratulations on all you've done and all you are doing. It's time to just went by much too fast. It's been great talking with you. Thank you again for being on the movie business podcast, Peter Safier. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed it. It gave me food for thought, honestly. Oh, thanks again, Peter. Bye-bye, Jason.