Sebastian Steudtner: The Risk of Sitting Still

Who is crazy enough to surf down a ten story house? pursuing a dream I love surfing. I love being out there the world record doesn't mean I have arrived anywhere to me the experience of Surfing the wave and of having my closest friends in that environment would be and coming out There years later talking about hey remember that moment. How do you measure the size of the wave? One of the most asked question is why you risk your life so rather than reckless it's more calculated if if it's worth it What do you make it out of life? So what is the risk? Only a few people in the world can say that that's for sure. I Remember the fights I had with mom or my dad and even with my wife like some of my best friends laughed at me If I look at you and some of the things you said before you're more of a boxer you have to be prepared to die because That is the force of the nature behind you. Yeah Welcome to this episode of going mental and today we have a guest who goes mental Certainly in my definition of the word a little bit crazy a little bit out of the comfort zone to say the least He is the current world record holder in big wave surfing an all-round good dude I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times and I'm really looking forward to diving into the world of Sebastian Stoydner welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you. Yeah, I'm very well just finishing up the winter season Sebastian, we start the show here traditionally by figuring out your definition of going mental. It's a word that obviously can mean all sorts of things What does going mental mean to you when you hear it? Where does your mind go? It could mean a lot of different things that going mental to me is It could be having a normal job that would drive me mental or it could or could mean pursuing a dream or you know doing something that is That takes literally going mental So I think there's a lot of different going mental It's funny. We haven't had that one yet and I can so relate because people think that as athletes what we do is crazy Right, but a 9 to 5 for me would would driving absolutely crazy like it would be a hard thing to sit still and focus on doing the same metrics over and over. Yeah, it would kill me. I had this this press through recently and one of the most asked question is why you risking your life and Why did you why you choosing to take some of your risks in life and I always I always look at it from from the exact opposite view which is The risk of sitting at a desk or or Doing something for somebody else consistently for 20 30 years neglecting health not knowing your body not knowing what you're capable of and then Maybe ending up with a sickness or ending up with a you know unfulfilled life or looking back and saying oh I could have should have That to me is much greater risk and you can still die in a car accident or I don't know something Falls of a construction site in lands in New York you go aparting somebody punches you in your face and you You're vegetable like that is a knock that's Not most people's risk right so like to me it's allocated differently Do you think in general that People don't take enough risk is that something that you would advocate for Yeah, I mean I think for that to answer first we have to define what is risk that what you know For me risk is Something that is it's it's a real danger um Or it's something that could affect me in my life Like heavily In a negative way that that's my definition of risk um So rather than reckless you would say It's something perhaps more calculated Yeah, it's if it's worth it so life is risk or or the Whatever the what's the saying that we're nobody makes it out of life well dying Right so like the It's the the staying alive forever will not happen for anyone So what is the risk the risk to me is Not doing what I want to do and then looking at actual risk Um, it is yeah to calculate all the factors that I can calculate but then also not care about it or not being um Stop by it to pursue what I want to So quick note and I guess technically yes this isn't add but as a founder I just Can't say it feels like one today show is brought to you by Ryzen performance of Harold It is a company that we started over 10 years ago to race fast and feel good and regardless of if you're out there racing training or just moving we have got the best fitting and best looking kit in the game Check it out Ryzen.net and with the code athlete 10 you get 10% off the entire collection Anything that's not already discounted until May 31st. I'll pop that link in the show notes below Check it out Ryzen Dot net and find your best fitting gear It's interesting because the one person that thinks he can Not die or whose life motto is not to die Brian Johnson you know the guy who basically is documenting the whole Story and does all these health things as actually identified that fear and that kind of instinctive moment where your whole body is going through the motion of fear and real danger is An essential health factor Which is so contrary and right because it could all go wrong, but you actually need it And I guess from an evolutionary sense to to be whole yeah Yes If so then yeah if we look at it from a perspective of what's natural to us humans we used to chase mammoths or whatever gigantic animals would stick and if you break your ankle you you're dead So like and now we come to sitting like this and and like this and zero risk zero Nothing If you want to you you you think you can save yourself until whenever but Yes, that's a bigger risk to me It is a big risk. It's funny because I see your background I think behind your head it says one up right which which I believe if I'm memory remembering correctly is From Mario Brothers the The saying for getting an extra life so in video games you're so that if you kind of if the character dies you get one more life Which I think is quite fascinating. What's your take on one up? Well, I can't say who they are Um, they've been here and they they put it there And so it's just friends who were behind this and it's it's to I didn't know the meaning of it Yeah, to me was like I'm more of a motivational thing like one up like let's go one more time one more One up the next guy or one up yourself one up I love when when my closest people or the people I'm with um excel I think more than then for myself Yeah, that's it's interesting from a sport that seems so individualistic that you know really is You writing down the face Much of what you speak about is your team, but Before we get into that maybe let's just start the very beginning for those people who I knew to your journey. I think it's just important to set the context You grew up in landlocked Germany moved to a white and an early stage just Yeah, if you don't mind briefly share your journey your early journey and And how you actually got to where you are right now I'll just summarize it in real short is I grew up in in Nuremberg um Water was always my element that I loved and Adventure and action was what I was looking for in life and when I um discovered surfing I realized that's what I want to do and um being in Nuremberg in Germany it wasn't much surfing going on So I became a huge fan of a TV show called "Gangnam Wind" against the wind. I don't know if you remember it. Yeah, I grew up in South Africa. So we got it every now and then because it was like satellite TV came in around about that time. And I remember it was one of the early shows. Yeah, so these two dudes who were wind surfers and they always ran into trouble and solve these cases. So I got really hooked on wind surfing. And that was the only kind of surfing sport that I could pretend to do on the lakes around Nuremberg when there was a little bit of wind. And when it was 13, I discovered through a surfing magazine which was studying religiously. I discovered there was this school in Hawaii that you could go and wind surf and be in. So I decided to go to Hawaii. At 16, I actually went. And then, yeah, it took up from there. I learned how to wind surf quite quickly. I stopped everything in Germany and moved there. And then I saw the biggest wave. Back then, the biggest wave was in Onmawi, a wave called Piaj. And I fell in love with that. My mentor, Nelson Amitage, was the head of a big Hawaiian family. And then the rest is what happened. Fair enough. But before we get into the rest, I mean, moving at 16, and from Germany, Hawaii is exactly 12 hours of time difference. It's literally the other end of the world. I mean, I look at my kids and I give I think of my boy doing that six years from now. It's a little bit freaky. How did you come to be so sure? How did you just pack your bags and get yourself a ticket and move to a way? Actually, I don't know. I have this in me. I do believe that every human has an element that comes natural. And that we're attached to. And that's the only way I could explain it is that water definitely is out for me. Other than that, I've read on it. I've never had to think about this. It was just I knew I wanted to do it. And I did it. Yeah, I mean, fair enough. If you know that early on, that is probably, I mean, again, for surfing. If you're not familiar with surfing, I myself grew up surfing in Cape Town. Never quite had any gift or any further gap of it. But it's something that draws you in and it's something that's super addictive. And Hawaii really is the mecker of that sport, right? And so for you to find your way there, it's not like it was handed to you. I mean, you came there, you struggled, you had to go through the motions. What kind of effort did you have to go through to become a professional surfer in Hawaii in that kind of culture? Surfing is the sport of kings. And it's heavily rooted in the native, the original culture of Hawaiians. And then it was taken by Californians, Australians, and Europeans, and the rest of the world as kind of this, this, this blonde white sport. And but the origins of surfing are from Hawaii, have a culture meaning a lot to do with the community as well. And so me being a white blonde guy from the other side of the world, getting there, not knowing anything about that, just wanting waves and wanting to surf. Of course, was a culture, a cultural clash. Let's call it that. And it obviously wasn't easy to first to integrate myself. And there's a double conflict, which is that you have the industry, so like the commercial surfing industry. And then you have the actual Hawaiian surfing community. And I was lucky that I was taken in by Nelson Amitich who rests in peace, but he was the head of one of the biggest families in Hawaii. And he was the foreign minister of the reinstated Hawaiian government, which means he was very, very politically active and fighting for the rights of the Hawaiians. Hawaii is under occupation since 1892. So there's a lot of social issues going on. And so just to paint the picture of the environment that I was in on the flip side of that, I was fortunate to be taught by native Hawaiians, their sport, their culture, which allowed me to integrate myself to understand the meaning behind it, to understand the values behind their culture and surfing. And I got to surf with some of the people in my sport that made the sport what it is today. So yeah, it was good in the battle. Yeah, I can somewhat relate because obviously both our sports meckers are in Hawaii. So Iron Man, triathlon, for those who've never heard of it, they may have heard of the triathlon in a way. And you get that cultural difference, a lot there, right? Because it's the same thing. It's a rich white sport coming into the island. But we come in once a year and kind of take over the island in a culture that is very often mocked. There's an underpants run, which is now a fun thing, but that's how the locals used to mock the triathletes because they thought they were all running around in their spandex. And you can feel that tension, right? Because it is very much a localized tribe. And I think it's just important to highlight. It's no mean feat to be accepted by one of the local families because they, you know, it takes time and it must obviously speak to your character to be welcomed there. Fast forward a little bit. You make your way as a pro surfer. It sounds like a fairy tale in terms of how quickly you progress, how much, you know, you obviously find your passion. You get to the very top of the sport and kind of celebrate your first world title and have this elated feeling, I guess, of arriving. And then at the very awards, you're mocked as the foreigner who can't paddle and greeted with a Nazi joke, which I mean, how does that feel? I mean, that has a very, there's a lot of backstory to it to that moment, but I think it just it showed my, my position in the sport. And to me that that moment, you know, call it whatever you want to call it, racism, fear of, you know, somebody arriving that did better quicker, but wasn't part of, you know, of the, of that community. But it, yeah, I mean, the aftermath of it, I think, is more important to highlight, which, which I didn't expect to happen what happened, which, which was basically the, my own industry, even in, in Germany and Austria and, you know, close the doors to me instead of looking at what happened and, and, and condemning that. So it was basically, if you compare to a different sport in a different scenario, let's say, you win it. And because an Australian says, you know what, he won the Iron Man. But he, he doesn't squat, squat enough weight, you know, and then because of that, all the, the cycling brands and the, you know, the, the, try them brands say, oh, we want nothing to do with him. You know, one has nothing to do with the other, I served the biggest wave. The category was the biggest wave, the biggest wave, nobody else paddles into the biggest wave. And he always, you know, assisted with a, with a jet ski. And because of that, that was their angle, like, okay, what can we take that he, that we can say he's not one of us. Yeah, that was it. And then obviously the Nazi jokes, which should have been kind of an obvious one for everyone that, yeah, you, you shouldn't look at that. You should look at the, the, the, positive in the sport, not at like take their word for it. But I guess that's just, that speaks for the industry. It's a very close industry, a very close-minded industry. I mean, wetsuits are a good example. All the wetsuits in surfing are black, with like a tiny little logo on it, and they've never changed. And if you ask any surfer like, "Hey, what would you like to wear?" They always say, "Oh, we would like some color. "We'd like it to change, but it never changes." So for me, it was a really bad aftermath because I was well championed. I was celebrated by the media. At the same time, I couldn't get any deals. I couldn't get any sponsorship, any commercial support. - Totally right, that it's absolutely wild, that some guy who seemed drunk on stage as well, can have such an out-sized impact. But then you look at surfing, and it's exactly like you said, like I struggle from the outside with the whole concept, and localism, and I know that's a whole debate in its own, but it's basically speaking to the point that, if you're not born there, you don't have the same rights as the person who does, which is a very strange kind of concept. But the really interesting thing is that you've come out, and you have one more world titles, you've smashed world records, you're going out, and you've built something in a different spot altogether. And it makes me wonder what you do with that kind of hostility towards you. Is it kind of fuel? Is it something that really motivates you? And if it is, how do you deal with it? So I think localism is actually, it's necessary in many ways, and it's actually a positive thing for surfing, but there is different types of localism. So there's like the surfing has, or the Hawaiian way of looking at the ocean, and the Hawaiian values have a lot to do with respect. And so respect for the community, respect for each other, respect for the land, for the sea. And because surfing has become very popular, and because when you surf a big wave, especially, you get a lot of attention. It attracts a lot of people that don't do it because they love it, and they have a lot of respect, and a lot of connection to it. They just want the picture. And so there is, and how do you, so how do you deal with it? There's no race track, there are no rules, there's nothing to regulate it. So in some way, the local community has to take care of their own spot. Now, how it develop and how people use it, to say, "Hey, I'm from here, so you can't surf here." That's completely wrong. And that's disrespectful people using a good value in something that is culture important in surfing, for the benefit, but doing exactly the opposite of what it actually should be. But do you question how to deal with the hostility or if somebody doesn't, if I'm disrespected or like, whatever I've encountered? It's, I think it, I don't really care about the people. I don't really care about the, I'm not like, "Oh, he said this to me, and now I'm a God." And what are they thinking about me? I have my own logic in my own way of judging what's, who's important and what's, who I should listen to and what is, like, what's valuable information and what is just bullshit. What I hate is being treated not fairly. That really gets me going. And actually, I perform the best if, if, if, if I'm angry or if I'm like, thank one up. If I have to have one up on you, then I'm, I'm a, I will win. Like, if you pissed me off before a big day, I'm winning. - I have the saying that you, that's, that's always guided for me, which was 98% of the right reasons and 2% is left for the assholes out there. And, and, you know, that, that ratio isn't always accurate. It can shift, I know exactly what you mean. But were you like this as a, as a 22 year old, when you won your first award and when this came, or is that something that you developed over time? Is that really something, you know, speaking from personal experience? - Yeah. - I used to very much get blocked. I would just get angry and just have this ball of energy but it, it took me ages to learn to channel this energy. How was that for you? - So, I was very lucky. I didn't hear what they said on stage because back then, I was very, I'd say I was a bit out of control. A lot of times and like, I would take anger into fights. I was, I was a physical, I was expressing. I was probably to obviously, like I wasn't blocked, I would, I'd, I'd go out with my anger. And, you know, growing up in, in this Hawaiian environment, your respect is on the top. So being disrespected, if I had heard it, and I'm lucky I didn't hear it because when they were speaking, everyone else around me was hugging me. And so, I went up like, hey, like, all good, smiling, shaking their hands, like, I just heard the hitter thing, like a little bit, I couldn't make sense of it, but it didn't, I didn't have enough time to process the last part before I went to the mics, and I was so happy. Had I heard it, it probably would have been really, really, really bad for me. And actually Nelson took us aside 'cause I was there with Nelson, with Bobo, who's in the movie as well. And they, yeah, they, I don't know how much I can say here publicly, but the guys on stage had a lot of risk. And not just for that night, but in, in for a long time. And Nelson was the one who pulled us aside and said, hey, we're not giving into this year to champion. We just, you know, you accomplish what you want it to accomplish. And we're going to have dinner and go party. And it's, we celebrate you. We're not letting this influence us, which was the opposite of how I know him. He made the first one to lead the charge and confront him, but in this case, he, yeah, he, he, and this sticks or stuck with me as a lesson to really in any kind of situation, pay attention towards really important and not let outside dictate what, what we have in here. All my life I have had Achilles problems. It is something I've spent months and years on trying to rehab and recover. And finally, in 2022, my wife introduced me to pillar performance. 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That's code goingmental for 15% off first time purchases. Yeah, to have enough time for the right reaction, right? Because in the end, you've heard to bear the brunt of it. But history shows the fletcher. It's Nathan and what's his brother's name? Christian. Christian. As, yeah, as definitely being on the wrong side. But yeah, do you? sometimes think back to that moment and back to what happened and realize that you are now living your dream in Portugal, not in Hawaii. You've basically made Nazare famous as a place and formed a team around you, you're redefining the sport, you're sending new boundaries all also because of that moment. No, I don't think so. I do what I do for the love, I really love what I do. I really, really, really enjoy experiencing those the size of waves. I love thinking of ideas how to go faster, how to make it safer, how to get my big way team around me motivated to develop that kind of partnership that my Jessica driver Eric, my big-growth partner, I see the same. We have these moments, it could be chaos, rain and wind and storm and barely can see, but we both see if it's a good wave and we both have this reaction, we look at each other and we're excited and he starts racing with the jet ski and those moments to me and that experience, that's why I did. I generally have nothing to prove to any human. I've made, you know, where I'm at, I've done everything that you can do in the sport, I'm well off, like I'm, there's nothing in me that needs to prove to somebody else through, I mean, this would be the worst thing to risking my life and through you going crazy, I generally love it. I'm not done in that for a second but you were kind enough to share your movie that's just come out on the wave with me and I watched it with the whole family and it was glued to the screen and I just very much always have this thing that people like you have a drive that comes from somewhere and I'm not even saying that it's something toxic but it's definitely something that changed your trajectory. Right, it obviously it wasn't a pleasant experience but it forced you to come up with new places, you went back home after that experience, went to Ireland of all places to go surfing. I mean, you know, after growing up in board shorts on the beaches of Hawaii, it certainly had a key impact, wouldn't you say? Yeah, 100%. But you know, in the movie that is like as a pinnacle moment, as shown as a pinnacle moment, but to me personally, that's not the pinnacle, like this one moment that defined so much. You know, when I was 13 and I decided I'm going to Hawaii, my dad, he said, keep a great idea and then like check how much a ticket is and check, you know, where it is and check, like come back, show me how you're going to do this. And I remember the fights I had with my mom, my dad, and even with my, like some of my best friends laughed at me, they were like, yeah, you're going to go to Hawaii, sure. And I was, you know, I ripped out the schoolbooks and glued up surfing magazines in it, you know, just had the cover of the schoolbooks or the teacher would think I'm reading. And it's in the last row and I was like studying every, like I was looking at a picture for one hour, just like studying every single detail of it because I love this so much. And I think that was, that was the time when I understood nobody, nobody believes in what I'm doing or in what I want to do. And I have to be the one, you know, leading this, I have to be the one taking responsibility for it. And I started working in the only surf shop, win surf shop in the region. I started, you know, having side jobs after school and I was very dedicated since I was, yeah, 13, 14 years old. And I don't know why, but to me that's, yeah, it's, I guess it's a blessing because it means I can do a lot of things where other people stop because they have an expectation or they think that, you know, there needs to be, I can keep going without my own energy. And I can go long enough to where then the energy grabs other people to understand, believe, and walk with me. The sign of, yeah, of a leader, I think is exactly that. You have this vision that's kind of a little bit outside of the grasp of yourself, but it's a long way out of the grasp of those people around you and then bit by bit through your actions, through your dedication, through the path that you walk, people realize you're serious about this. And, and I find it really interesting that you were kind of instinctively visualizing at the age of 13. I mean, yeah, that's kind of, it must be the, well, one of the keys to success. And if you look at the science and you look at the evidence behind it, every time I get, I got injured, I would use visualization to see myself running more efficiently or swimming and, you know, drilling techniques. Is visualization still a key part of your routine? Yeah, I mean, I wish I could go back to those times, you know, just because I didn't have much else to think about. But quite easy. But yeah, it is, I actually visualized, I do, I do biking, for example. I get into my own zone or running. Or I do, I'm really hyper. So I'm really hard time and sitting still and like, okay, I'm going to meditate and think about this now. So I have to do it in movement or free diving. So if I prepare for free diving and do the breath ups, then those are moments I visualize. But I visualize, I used to visualize by looking at something. And now, like looking at something and then my mind would start processing it and then, you know, it would become a movie basically. And now it's, I'm visualizing feelings or I'm trying to get the feeling and then the image. Okay. And that is, I think I'm doing it less than when I was like 13 to 16 or whatever. But I think I can tap into the source of it quicker or in a shorter time. Do you ever visualize the feeling of having accomplished it before actually accomplishing it? Yeah. Oh yeah, that's, I start with that. Yeah, that's, I mean, it's a very common. You find it with a lot of athletes, but it's, yeah, it's kind of you start with the end in mind and then build your way there. Yeah. It would be a mess of me not to go into some of the extreme situations. You talked about free diving. Yeah. I did a deep dive, obviously, in the last last week or so and found some articles where you teach or you say you teach yourself to be able to pass out underwater. Take us into that relationship of looking for the extreme. Well, I actually learned that on Big Island on a free diving course. And I would say it's the least extreme thing that and something that everyone actually everyone probably can quite quickly learn. I think the meaning behind it is is a more extreme or the purpose behind it is the more extreme extreme thing. So the biggest risk in or the biggest fear is to be under a big wave not coming up and being powerless because the wave is, yeah, it's always stronger than we are. And so I think that's probably the most common fear of surfers and especially with bigger surfers is to be held under and be being tumble, tumble by those waves. So my logic was, okay, if I can just hold my breath until I pass out, I don't have to worry about that because then when I'm being tumble, I'm just holding my breath. And if I come up, I'm coming up, if I'm passing out, I'm passing out. Like rationally, it's it's not as you can do. It's not extreme at all. I mean, you're talking about about the fear of drowning, which is probably on many people's radar, the most extreme thing, but keep going. Exactly because of that. So my logic was if I can learn how to control my mind and I can physically experience how it is to hold your breath until you pass out and then learn exactly what happens or to diaphragm and you're lunging the contractions and all those things that give you that fear and that panic in the moment, if I can learn it and if I can go through it, then when it happens, first I'm not surprised, second I know how to handle it and I can tick a box which is okay, I know how to drown. So if I am drowning, it's not traumatizing. Yeah, again, the fact that you don't describe it as extreme, like I get it in a sense, like that people always, you start off small and then you work your way up to be bigger and bigger and I guess it's exactly the same journey for you where you started off on a lake with barely any wind and now you're kind of facing these giants. But again, yeah, it's illogically, it sounds wonderful. It's just how do you actually manage your instinct and your fear because in sports in general, we're always taught to never have fear, to have respect of everything, but you don't have fear. Whereas if I look at you and some of the things you've said before, you're more of a boxer, like you have to be prepared to die in a sense because that is the force of the nature behind you. Yeah. And I actually don't look at fear as something bad. I really think that fears are back to the point. Why do we have fear? It's natural for us to have fear. And back in the day, if we were running, if we wouldn't be scared of the, whatever the mammoth or the falling rocks or whatever, whatever the danger was, then we probably just die because we stand there, oh yeah, it's just running past me and boom, you're, you know, it kills you. So fear is enhancing your senses, is helping you to pay attention to be sharp, to be focused. And fear, for me, in a, especially in the off season, I think I've a lot more feared and during the season. And why? Because I can think about everything that could go wrong, everything that we're not prepared for everything. I have a lot of time to analyze, to look at what happened to, you know, try to, by trying to improve, improve things, seeing what we're actually not prepared for. And so when it comes into motion and when, when, when I get going, when the waves are happening, then I know what I have done. I know exactly every single way that I can die. I know exactly every single thing that is prepared for me not to die. And from my team, from, you know, from everything that I go through and I go through a lot of things to prevent any kind of risk. But then that doesn't mean that I'm not, that I'm going into the big wave day and I'm fearful of all these things. It's more like I've taken care of them and I don't need to think about them anymore. So I actually take more risk because of that. That makes sense. Yeah, I guess it does. I mean, in, in cycling terms, I guess people can relate a lot easier as when people started wearing helmets. But it's just thinking about having a mobile ambulance travel with me all the time, which would be the ideal preparation every time I go down. I'm purely in mountain climat 80k's an hour. It would make sense, but nobody does it. And I guess nobody else does it in your sport either. No. And is, is that a control thing for you? Is that something that allows you to maintain more control? Or is it really an analytical thing to be like, okay, I've done this. This is in check. And then like you say, I can go full send. I can risk it all the more. It started with the necessity of having something because in, in, in, in Nazare, when I first came here, there was literally one lifeguard on my foot with, with one of those lifeguard boys. Yeah. Good luck. And you have a beach that's, you know, a few kilometers long. The next hospital, which isn't great, is like half an hour away. And you have like a empty ambulance, like you don't have the, you know, the, the, the German kind of ambulance that comes fully equipped with a EMT. It's just a dude in a, like, an a stretcher and he'll put you on there and then slowly start going. So you will die if you need any kind of urgent medical care. Not even like you're, not even like the five minutes or the, what, three minutes type of situation, but like a, you know, you have a punctured lung or something that you need help within 30 minutes or 40 minutes. And you have nobody that knows what they're doing and no way of getting off that beach. You know, bleeding that you could just stop or, you know, like something that would be a fairly simple medical situation. We didn't have a solution for it. So that's why I started looking at it. And then I think, and this is my way of controlling or of dealing with my fear, I think, or of dealing with, with all the factors that I think are related to me being free to do what I want to do. And that, call it control or call it, I don't know, preparation or whatever, whatever it is. But I can, I love, I love to improve it. Like now we're, we're probably the fastest shoreline medical rescue system with this type of medical technology and, and abilities in the world. There's nothing like that and Hawaii or in any other beach. So I love the process of developing those things. It's really, yeah. You're ruining my childhood memories here. It has to be Baywatch. Honestly, it has to be Baywatch. Nobody can be faster than Baywatch. Well, it's dangerous beach. Yeah, it is really funny because I grew up as a lifeguard and that's how I made my first cash right back in Cape Town. And literally that dude with that plastic buoy, that was me walking around the beach and like, you know, the rip tides going off Cape Town, the closest thing we have to Nazare or, or George or any of these is a spot called Dungeons, which is, I'm sure it's, it's nothing special to you, but it was really, really impressive to see that kind of power that the ocean can produce. And, you know, you essentially being one person, you know, I was, I was a decent swimmer, but exposed to the strength and the power of the ocean and seeing how necessary that actually is. And brings me to trying to describe the feeling that you must have. And I wonder what you think about this because I know you, you have a relationship to skiing or the ski preparation. I've recently started skiing. And the best thing I could come up with is skiing, icy moguls with an avalanche chasing me. And literally you wait at the top of the mountain until you see the avalanche go and then you send, send off. Like, is that roughly the rush you, you must have? Plus, the mountain is not static, but it's, you see it growing before you start descending. Yeah, if you, it's, it's a really hard feeling to describe, actually. But just to give it a perspective, sometimes the storms that bring us the biggest waves in, in Portugal there, about a third half, half of the Atlantic becomes the eye of a storm. And that storm starts pushing an energy towards the coast of, of Portugal. And then when that energy unloads, it becomes a wave and it crashes. That's when I'm part of it. So the, the whole magnitude of the energy, the physical energy that is moving, it's really hard to comprehend. And it makes me feel really small, meaningless, like nothing really. And it's a very humbling, very, very humbling experience. And then at the same time, it's an athlete I'm performing. I'm hunting the wave. I'm chasing the wave. You know, I, I was surfboard, that's called a Castador RS. Castador is a hunter in Portuguese RS, you know, for the racing sports edition, which are made to be quick enough to catch those waves. So on the other hand, it's a, it's a very, yeah, very powerful feeling. And it's like, it's surreal because it's a meaningless, it's crazy. It is like the whole. oceanism, movement and the other side I'm performing, I'm setting my lines and doing stuff. And you prepare all of that. I mean, you're second to none in terms of the preparation, not only the medical side, you've got jet skis that have somewhere around 400 horsepower, setting new speeds. Your current world record is 26.5, 26.2, something like that, metres. You surfed a bigger wave over two years ago. Can I just randomly ask, why on earth does it take two years to ratify a world record? Well, it goes back to, I guess, my position in the sport, which I think it's still the same as it has been back then for who is in control of measuring or of giving those titles. And obviously, the success of being having is not something that made them like me more. So when they need to decide to give me a world record, it takes more time than if it's somebody from Brazil or from California. Interesting what happened on the last world record. So the general topic is, how do you measure a wave? How do you measure the size of a wave? And the way it has been done is basically, like, imagine this is the wave. Let's say, this is me. And then they say, okay, the wave is, it finishes here. And then his shin bone is like 40 centimeters, 50 centimeters, whatever. So how many times does his shin bone fit in here? And then the real question is, where does the wave stop? Where does it end? And because there's no way of looking at a picture and saying, oh, yeah, it's right here, like, to the centimeter, it's here. That's where the margin of, you know, I'll give it to him or give it to him is that's number one. Number two is the, how do you select the images that are being measured? And then number three is, how do you give a number, which is like 26.8, whatever, you know, to the centimeter? Like, you know, so that's, that's kind of the, where we come from. And so I was thinking, all right, so that's a way of, there's ocean signs, there's wave signs, waves must have been measured before. So let me see if there's a solution. So I did, you know, a big reach out to universities and institutes and I discovered that there has never been any ocean day, any wave data of coastal waves breaking, being measured as they're breaking. So not static on like a, a, a, a, a, a, oil platform where like a wind, wind farm where like from a, a big vessel, you know, out to sea. And then I decided, okay, I'm going to build my own measuring technology and because the technology's there. So I started with this kind of homemade, huge drone with a big radar block under it and spent like half my season budget on it. I was so convinced that this would work and it's like this breakthrough thing. And it ended up crashing and, and sinking on the first actual wave day. And then, yeah, and then some things happened like in 2018, I wrote a wave that until now is like the, the most seen wave ever has billions of views and it was never measured. It was never, you know, never taken an account. It was mistaken for a world record that was given for somebody else or somebody else was was being celebrated with that wave. With your wave with my wave, yeah. And yeah, it was quite, it was, it's, if you go with like Steve will repost it and then realize that he tagged the wrong person and then he was really cool about it and reached out to me. It's like, dude, I'm so sorry. Like, how can I, what can I do? And then the other guy, when he corrected it, then texted him and saying, Hey, why did you change it? Like this whole thing. And, but I picked it up again in, in 2022 when we started a science project where I was trying to understand where I started to get data from just from everything from my body, from the surfboard, from the waves, just to understand where we are and how we can make it better, how can we make the surfboard faster, how can I train my body in a more scientific way, specifically for my needs. And also, what are we actually writing? What are those waves? Not just the size, but the speed, the volume, the energy that it's given out. And so we did it again. And this time it was, you know, with, with more budget, with more, more of a professional approach. And so that second, the last world record from 2024 was then measured by a scientific wave measuring drone with a lighter system. And it was not just for, for surfing or for big wave surfing, but in wave signs, the first time that the biggest wave or a big wave was measured as it was breaking. And it was 28.5 something meters. It's, it's obviously we had coming from such a binary sport as triathlon, you know, we have times, we have set distances, we have these kind of records. And, you know, it's there, it's black and white. And then to think that somebody has to decide and has to have a jury on something that is really objectively measurable. Is that something that crosses in your mind? Does that enter the 2%? Is that something that gets you up at four o'clock in the morning? Yeah. And not just, I mean, for myself, definitely. And what happened in the past, like how many, you know, it's not fair. It's not fair to, to, to have a sport which produces so much views, so much value. And then and athletes are risking everything and are doing everything. And we're not in a rich sport. Like our sport is not, it's not an organized sport. Everyone is their own team, you know, but it needs a big infrastructure. So big wave surfers are very, very dedicated. And to me that that disrespect to saying, hey, yeah, you surfed this, you went there. You went where three, four, five people went and you made it there. And then now we're just going to judge you. We're just, we're not going to tell you how I'm going to tell you who, but we're just going to and then hey, please fly to California on your own and maybe you'll get something. Like that to me definitely got me up in the morning. And on the other hand, also the, just the fact how little we know about waves. Now how little we know about what we're actually, what we're doing and what we're dealing with. And then the, the vision and the idea of how we can differently look at these waves and at what we're writing and what we're doing, if we would understand it better, that really got me, got me hooked on, on the science, science part of it. And that's amazing how you managed to always, sorry, go on. Yeah, I don't know, just to wrap this up. So what happened? So the first world record took two years, two, two years to measure on the, um, the second interracial, like the most advanced traditional way of measuring photos because it came from literally judging. So they would have a judging panel and then they would judge the size of the wave. And then it became like the shin bone into the, you know, how many times it fits in it. And then they had an institute validating it approximately. And what happened since I proved you can do it scientifically. And I mean, the, you know, again, his world records and their measuring entity, which is the world surf league or was the world surf league, they should have the most advanced, um, measuring technology. So I proved it's possible. Um, and they, and I actually, before like a little bit, I thought, I can't, how they're gonna get on it and they'll, they'll, they'll do it. But what actually happened is it was another two year back and forth where they were trying everything they could to find reasons why not to, um, accept it. And what happened is they stepped back. They said, we're not measuring waves anymore. And so it went back to the dude who invented the, the, the, the first system, the, the judging system. So now it actually went backwards. Yeah, because locking yourself in a room with a bunch of mates and having five beers and saying, oh, no, that's at least 20 shins is so much more fun. Man, that's, yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. It's again coming from a world where everything is so binary and timed and easy. It makes me think, do you remember asterix and obelix? Yeah. It's one of my all-time favorite comics for those of you that don't know it. It's the a Gauley and Village that resists the Romans and all of, you know, the world is taken over by the Romans except for their little village. And it sounds a little bit like you are creating your own village, your team of people who are just there to do cool shit, really. Like you're creating a world inside surfing that can't be denied and that is, you know, objectively breaking every sort of boundary and you seem to almost thrive on that. Yeah, I mean, I started this because I thought it was the coolest thing ever and because I loved every experience I had and I think surfing is such a great experience for humans and especially for young people. We learn so much about ourselves. We have a connection to, you know, to the environment, to one of the most important elements on this planet and sport is such a physical activity with others. It's such a great mentor. I don't think I would be where I'm at with our sport. Like I think my life would not have been as great as it is. And all these options or all these opportunities that we have and all these things to explore, of course, that's, I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer that's cool and cool shit has to be done with it. It has to be used in a cool way, in a limiting way or in a controlling way for the people in it. As we wrap this up, I would love to know when you have one of these titles, when you get one of these records, you're living your dream in some sense and yet you've announced you want to surf away almost twice the size, 50 meters. That's kind of, you know, this North Star, if anything. Do you feel like you've arrived? Do you feel like are you content with where you are? You mean content like if I had to quit tomorrow, it'd be all good? Yes. No, definitely not. You know, the thing I really don't care about the world record. It has never been my ambition and it will never be my ambition and you know, it's right here. The plaque thing is right here and it basically is a piece of paper. That's where it is. Yeah, I've got two of them. I don't know where they are. Yeah, so and I actually have to put it down because my friends who made this said, no, no, no, you can't put that on the one. You've got to show it all piece if you show it. So the world record doesn't mean I have arrived anywhere. To me, the experience of surfing the wave and having my closest friends in that environment with me and coming out and years later talking about, hey, remember that moment? And you know, being that is what really what makes me content with where I am at. As far as like the biggest wave and you know, saying now, okay, there is so because in 2018, we saw waves probably 50 meters in size. Here in Nazarene, we've only seen that once in 15 years. So I don't know, you know, it might be 55 when that happens again. Will I want to surf that wave then? Will I be ready for that wave? Because it takes a lot of physical physical readiness and mental readiness and you know, it's a big operation to be ready for that. So I don't know if I will get to surf a wave twice in size, but I want to be ready in the time that I have and if it happens, it happens. And also, I don't think that Nazarene is the end of the line for the biggest waves. I think there's so many big waves out there that we haven't seen yet, haven't heard about yet and attacking that frontier. It will going going beyond Nazarene. I think it's also something that has to be done and it's something I've been working on for quite a while already. Yeah, of course, spending eight hours a day on the water waiting for that one wave and then searching all around the world and a 50 meter wave is not quite enough yet. So, Asian, that's why you're an inspiration. I would love to know before you go when was the last time you went mental? We had a giant storm here, like a hurricane strength storm. You always know it's bad when they give it a name. Yeah, it was the highest winds ever recorded in Portugal, like more than 200 kilometers an hour. I really got into, got attached to my trees and the plants that I've planted a few years ago. I was in my house here and the wind was shaking everything. The glass of the balcony was ripped off and things were flying around. It was proper, proper, proper man. The only thing I could think about was my trees. In the next day when I went out and I saw every single tree taken down, gone, broken, I think I went like mental. I went mental. I spent three straight three days just taking care of the trees. I didn't care about the host, but nothing. Did they make it? Some made it. Some were still looking if they're reattaching or not. Fingers crossed. Asian, thanks so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it. I know the surface cranking and what it means for a surfer to actually show up when the waves are happening. So, I don't want to torture you any longer, appreciate it and see you next time, buddy. Thanks for having me on.