Season Preview: A’ja's MVP Case, Fever-Wings Showdown, Phee’s Free Agency, and the New-Look Liberty

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For more information, visit GatorLite.com. GatorLite.com. Welcome to the Rigger WNBA show. I'm Sirid Sohi. I am joined by Sabrina Merchant of The Athletic. And we are so, so, so close to regular season WNBA. WNBA basketball, the WNBA's 30th season, tipping off in, if you're listening to this, probably 24 hours or less. I can't believe we actually made it here. I feel like we were just, it was just a bunch of different forces going against this actually happening. You also get to the place where you talk about the start of the season so much that it almost kind of feels surreal that we're actually here. Sabrina, how are you feeling? Are you excited? I'm stoked. I mean, I feel like the minute the WNBA announced its schedule in a very passive-aggressive, hey, we're going to get a deal done mode, that they had Dallas, Indiana on the first weekend was a real clear indicator of, oh, we have to get games on, you know, May 9th. So, by hook or by crook, we got to this point. We're here. Lots of fun stuff happening this weekend. Lots of fun stuff happening for hopefully the next four months. Yeah, they really launched that grenade. Straight into the players' union's laps. Hey, like, we're going to give you the opening slate that everybody has been wanting. You have the Aces playing the Sparks. You have the Valkyries. The Valkyries are playing the Storm, which actually wasn't going to be a game that you would think had any heat before the season started, but now it is officially the Flage Johnson Bowl. You know, the Valkyries play the Mercury after that. Oh, Marta Suarez. Oh, oh. Matt, sometimes the basketball gods, just give with both hands, don't they? Where do you want to start? You want to start with Fever Wings? We could talk some MVP and get into that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I don't know that I've ever seen a game with the last four number one picks on the court at the same time. So, it's pretty cool. It is. It is. I hadn't even considered that until right now, which I should have because I actually think the ESPN talk show, they talked about that when they played against each other in the preseason. So, that's my bad. But yeah, let's, well, let's start, let's talk some MVP. That's part of the reason I brought you on. This is one of the last predictions that I haven't done yet. We did three episodes of Power Rankings. We talked a little bit of Rookie of the Year. Today, we'll talk MVP, Coach of the Year, talk about some of these games. Shockingly, my favorite for MVP is the player who's won four times. And it's currently the odds on favorite and is probably the best living basketball player on earth, perhaps the best women's basketball player of all time. And you can actually take the perhaps out of that. And Asia Wilson holds three of the top five PER seasons of all time, all time leading scoring season per game in 2024. Won three of the last four championships. You can stop me anytime because we could just do this. We could just do this for the entire episode. But at this point, I'm going against the grain of wanting to go in the direction of novelty, because I think that Asia Wilson is just, she's in a league of her own. She's in a league of her own. She's better than everybody else. And I really want to plant my flag on this before the season starts. Because I have watched in the NBA, the greatest player of all time lose out on MVP awards because people get sick of watching greatness. The media gets sick of talking about the same storyline over and over again. And if you go back in history with a lot of different sports, this happens all the time. Oh, there's MVP fatigue, voter fatigue. I am not going to be in the business of getting sick of knowing that I'm watching the best player of all time play in her prime heading into her 29th year on earth, which is when your athletic skills, your basketball ability, your skill refinement, and your cognitive ability all collide. I think Asia Wilson is going to give us a season for the ages. I think she's going to give us something that makes it even hard to deny that she would end up being the MVP. Yeah. I wish I had something to disagree with you on, but she is also my pick for MVP. And my only real concern is voter fatigue because LeBron James never won three MVPs in a row. We had a weird Nikola Jokic thing with three MVPs in a row on the NBA side. That didn't happen. No WNBA player has ever won three in a row, though, unfortunately, I'm not entirely well versed enough in the early years of the W to know if that's a travesty or not. But yeah, I think it's going to be hard for Asia to get there. Because people like a narrative. They like a story. And I think being the greatest player of all time and showcasing that dominance on a night-to-night basis is a pretty damn good story. But apparently it gets boring for some people. So, yeah, I think the fact that like the Aces have kept the band together, that they, you know, come in as the overwhelming favorites. Maybe not the overwhelming favorites, I don't know. But that they come in with the same team that just swept through the finals, maybe it's going to make what Asia Wilson does. Look less impressive because, hey, you have a team that has already won three of the last four titles. But no, I think she is the greatest player alive. I don't think we need any qualifiers there. And if she does what she is capable of doing, you know, if she plays like at least 38 of the 44 games, I see no reason why that wouldn't be an MVP worthy season. Yeah, the Aces are actually second favorites. The Liberty are the favorites. And that's that East Coast bias. Goodness gracious. Well, it's like every every year we look. We look at this Liberty roster on paper because they're stacked with talent and we tell ourselves that they're unbeatable because how could you possibly be a team that has a big three and has also signed Satu Sabali or last year was Emma Mieseman. But somehow they managed to find a way to beat themselves. I do think that this is the final year that that happens. We'll talk about that more when we talk about coach of the year. Little teaser there. But yeah, I mean, it is kind of strange that the team. That won three of the last four titles is not a title favorite. Maybe that works in Asia's favor. And I do think that when you talk about what we can talk about is perhaps the kind of season that Asia will have, the ways in which she she will dominate because every year she brings something new to the table in the past few years. It's been her playmaking. She was a 42% shooter from three on low volume last season as well. If she starts taking more threes, how does that open the floor up for her? Does Becky Hammond start to generate more place for her from the three point line? Does that allow her to get to the free throw line even more than she already does? Especially with it seems like refereeing this year is going to be coded more towards offensive players. So I think Asia Wilson will definitely be one of the the winners of that. But a lot of it will come down to her teammates. She has this ability to just sort of mold into what the team needs on and off the floor, right? Like if she's getting triple teams. All over the place, she can find a Jewel Lloyd. She can find a Chelsea Gray. She can find a Jackie Young. That's always been the aces formula, right? Like use Asia's gravity to try to create three point shots. So a lot of it will come down to also how defenses choose to cover her. Do they want it under any circumstances to let her be them single coverage? Because I mean, the dirty little secret with doubling Asia is it just doesn't make a difference. Like think about the signature shot. Of her career, right? Like it's very late double. I don't really think it matters all that much. It was a late double and it was, you know, this is me playing into the narrative a little bit too much. I guess it was a late double against players that were shorter than her. We have seen some players be able to do a pretty good job of defending her, but they are few and far between. And I am just generally interested in seeing what this iteration of the aces look like. Are they going to be the team that's closer to 500 or are they going to be the team that that ripped off 16 Street Story Wednesday. win a title. Yeah, I do think what's interesting about the Aces is because of how thoroughly they dominated the finals, we've kind of forgotten all of the hiccups that came until that point. Like they were under 500 at a very late point of the season. They did almost get knocked out in the first round. They did almost get knocked out in the second round by an Indiana Fever team that was struggling to put bodies onto the court. Like Kelsey Mitchell fell just like to the floor during that game, like gave everything she had. She hit zero. That was literally what the people were working with. So the fact that they dispatched the Mercury so easily, I think kind of colors our minds of like, oh, they were just the best team in the league convincingly last year. And though I do think they are going to be this year, I'm not sure that it's entirely true because of all of the struggles they had during the regular season, all of the difficulties they had during the postseason. But it almost like adds more fuel to Asia Wilson's fire, which I feel like is never a good thing for opponents, right? Like when Asia Wilson feels like she has a score to settle, that is the. Most dangerous version of Asia Wilson. And she literally said during her media day, she exists to make people mad. She likes proving people wrong. And that is quite the thing to just put out there, you know, especially after you're coming off of a MVP co-defensive player of the year finals MVP season. When she just like hibernates basically for six months while everyone gets to talk about like, oh, look how much fun these people are having at Unrivaled. And don't we love this combination? Hey, USA Basketball. And Asia's just minding her business, you know? Getting back in the lab, adding little things to her game. So yeah, I think I would expect to see a very different version of the Aces, whether that means that we still see the same box score level stuffing for Asia Wilson is a different question, but she's going to be what I expect the best player on the best team. And that's usually a good MVP formula. Yeah. Yeah. It does. It does add a level of intrigue to the Aces season to go into it, not knowing which version of them that you're going to get. And they have players. Like a Chelsea Gray, who seems very motivated to win a title. She is talking about cementing the dynasty. She name-checked Rebecca Brunson, who is the only player in the WNBA who has more rings than her. But she is a little bit older now, and we've seen her not necessarily be able to keep the same consistency through the course of the regular season, which was an Aces issue at large. They also added Kennedy Carter, who is just could be the best thing that could happen to happen in the world or the worst thing. Pretty much definition of uncertainty in a person right there. The volatility is incredibly high. The upside is incredibly high. But so is the downside. I'm rooting for her. And I think the WNBA is a more entertaining league when Kennedy Carter is in it. But there's certainly a question mark. There's for two years in a row now, a bet on their culture as well. Bringing in Jewel Lloyd last year after Seattle, the way things ended there, her having, you know, finishing the season on the bench to then going to the Aces and becoming a real contributor and willing to come off of the bench. And they also added Janiyah Barker as well. So Becky's willing to do this, right? She's basically willing to take your like Melissa Smith also like, you know, with the fever in the wings on and off the court, there were certainly moments that were questionable with her. Nothing, I think. I mean, Melissa, I think was nothing with her really added up to the level of anything with Kennedy. However, still a bet. And she's kind of just like she's like the Statue of Liberty. She's like, I will take your I don't know the quote, but you're not American. It's fine. It's fine. And they're willing to do like they're willing to do things like that. But they're not the best front runners historically, right? I don't know. Twenty twenty three. I feel like they carried it quite well. They did the like they still had this chip on their shoulder. Now that everybody just unanimously agrees. Vegas does not believe in them. I shouldn't say Vegas. I should say the odds makers do not believe them. Vegas doesn't believe the odds makers. Like the odds makers don't really exist in Vegas as much anymore, as much as they're an amorphous, omniscient part of our lives. But yeah, you're right. Vegas doesn't believe in Vegas. Maybe that can be their bulletin board material. They always find something. One of the things that they do invest in, if not more front office storytelling, that is a key part of the Vegas myth making. This is true. You can be sure that they will have a theme, a narrative that works for them. OK, if you're Vegas. What is on your bulletin board right now? Let's make up some slights for them. Let's see that Asia Wilson was a co-defensive player of the year. Yes, that's number one. Yeah. Other slights. You can say that probably that like Becky finished. Second and like the best coach in the GM survey. Yes. And is like pretty low for odds makers on winning coach of the year as well. The best coach has never won coach of the year. Like it's it's a stupid award. I'm not on like Team Joe Mazzulla or anything. Oh, my God, that's so true. No, I've actually never thought of this. Coach of the year literally always goes to the coach that has like the most like Thomas the Train and like the little engine that could. It's never the team. It's like it should if coach well, coach of the year would then always just go to the same coaches. Historically in sports. Doesn't MVP always go to the same people? It doesn't. It should. It should, but it doesn't. There is a smaller pool of people who win MVP than there is that win coach of the year. This is true. This is true. Becky Hammond should I she's she's definitely on my list of like she's a dark horse coach of the how she's a dark horse candidate because no one is going to be impressed with what she is able to do with the A's this year. And that's and I think that's a stupid reason. That's a damn shame because this team doesn't necessarily like that. That's number two on the bulletin board. And I think like the third one would just be like, you know, we can prove that Kennedy Carter and Janiya Barker, most of the Kennedy. I'm not sure how much Janiya is factoring into this actual season, but we can prove that Kennedy Carter is a winning player, right? Like that's bulletin board material there. It is good to bring in, I think, fresh blood that has something to prove when you've won a title before. I do think that like Jewel Lloyd in particular added an edge. Refresh helps. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to have it's good to have players with something to prove that have an edge. Cheyenne Parker ties also coming back from her pregnancy as well as is another player that like, of course, she was part of that like, you know, sometimes you're like in the title run, but you're not of the title run. And she has a real role here. Like there's no more Kia Stokes, no more Megan Gustafson, Bree Turner. Yeah, she's a backup center. But like, if you want an offensive backup center, that's only CBT here. Exactly. There's a real role. Exactly. The action's on the court. And as the official beer sponsor of the NBA, Michelob Ultra is getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside seats, merch and more. 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Side effects may include a fuller, deeper night's sleep and the sudden urge to host the watch party again. Blinds.com isn't a medication, but it can improve how you feel about your home. Shop Black Friday all month long at Blinds.com. Don't miss huge deals dropping every week. Alright, here's a player who I actually think has some reason to feel slighted. And I think it's weird. To say about it. Because she's still the most remarked upon and popular player in the WNBA. But Caitlin Clark has become somewhat of an afterthought. Last year, she was voted by 50% of GMs that if you were starting a franchise today, you would start it with Caitlin Clark. Now, a lot of those GMs have moved on to Paige Beckers. And Paige Beckers, also rightfully so. I mean, I'm very much on the Paige Beckers-Dallas Wings hype train myself. But she is sort of. The way we were talking about the fever last year is very much the way that we're talking about Dallas. Like, Arike Beck, she's like the Kelsey Mitchell. They have this huge free agency. They bring in, quote-unquote, the right free agents. And now, all of a sudden, it's all sort of about Paige now. And, you know, you have to sort of temper that with the fact that ultimately, like, people are thinking and talking about Caitlin all the time. But it does feel a little bit different. It's strange. It's strange. It's strange. It's strange. We're kind of flying about as under the radar as a Caitlin Clark team ever possibly could, I guess. I think the parallels with their college career is so interesting because Paige was all anybody could talk about when she got to college, right? The next great UConn player, you know, the next cog in the. What's the word I'm looking for? Machine. Wheel. Yeah. A cog can actually be part of anything. That's a beautiful part of that word. That's why I like using it in my writing. so much and you know she was all you know the national media could talk about her first couple seasons she gets injured and caitlin just assumes that vacuum of the spotlight and i think that's what we saw last year where caitlin got hurt now page is back in her what she would consider the rightful spot atop caitlin in the hierarchy and i think it's fascinating because yeah they're separate draft classes but they were the same high school class right like i really think we should think of them as belonging on the same uh schedule in their wma career because like if anything page is a few months older than caitlin so i like that there's been this back and forth because of you know how they came into college they've their careers have intersected with each other at so many points whether that was their two wednesday tournament appearances or time spent in usa basketball at the junior levels now like they both get their own number one pick they're both trying to revitalize these markets um i think i think it's great uh i do think it's really funny just how quickly the shine came off of indiana though especially when they just ended a season where they arguably exceeded any possible expectations for that team to lose all of its uh like collective glow is very interesting to me yeah especially after bringing back their big three and you know i have some questions about i think they they indexed on fit more than talent this year and i think that they are kind of emphasizing a play style that is is more attuned to kind of what caitlin was doing um in iowa you draft raven johnson that allows her to play off the ball more we'll get into that a little bit later but i do really like the point that you made about this sort of reversal and the way that these two have always been in conversation with each other right um their play style as well they are very much foils for each other um and you can kind of see it like when i was thinking about the gm survey when the more i started thinking about it i was like well this actually kind of makes sense because page has so much technical proficiency she has so much technical proficiency that she's she is kind of a coach's dream she's always going to make the right play um she can score from anywhere on the floor it opens up her game to be able to do a ton of different things because she just has so much predictability in what she does and i think when you add that with her selflessness her iq um the fact that like other other players really seem drawn to her as well well you could understand why she would be like a coach's dream and she has always been like the insider's pick right like i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point and i think that's a really good point right like she was anointed at uconn and and she has lived up to it i don't want to make it seem like she hasn't like she's every once in a while the industry plant is like the right choice right um but then you have this player in caitlin who just uprooted all of that um and she's changing the way the game is played entirely she's a risk taker she's a type of player that makes coaches probably a little bit nervous if you want to do a good job of coaching her you have you have to have a strong stomach in order to allow her to actually be herself and take those risks take those logo threes take those half uh those full court passes and things like that so i i celebrate both like i am such a huge fan of both of the way the way that they play and the way that they approach the game because they ultimately kind of want to do the same thing they're both like very unselfish players who i would imagine if they were like watching a match they would just like the same things but stylistically they are so different um and i like that the wnba made this sort of like the marquee matchup to open up the weekend because it will be a very basketball focused in its rivalry um and allow us to have conversations like this um and it's just like there's there's there's an organic nature to it these two have always kind of been circling each other they've played with each other in like team usa settings against each other they had the final four matchup um they also played against each other i believe it was in caitlin's freshman year as well so there is their freshman years yeah both of them yeah both of them yeah yeah yeah so like it's yeah yeah exactly both of their freshman years like that's they are very much they came in together yeah exactly exactly exactly yeah yeah no i'm excited to very much get into the basketball of it all because uh the wings really dissected the fever during that preseason and i don't try to read too much into preseason basketball but it was not a great look for indiana's perimeter defense and admittedly i don't think alia boston was playing in that game a lot of what you're able to do there but uh i kind of think like which is again a weird thing to say like there's some pressure on indiana to perform early to like remind everyone that hey we are still like this big three we are still the team that made the semifinals last year we still have steph white one of the best coaches in the wmba who's proven herself at this level um so yeah i think i think it's an awesome way to start the season and i hope that this i'm not gonna call it a manufactured rival but like this rivalry that the wmba is foisting on us works out better than indiana chicago did here well it feels less foisted yeah i think it's an awesome way to start the season and i hope that this i'm not gonna call it a like we can just start there like i think that's that's a big part of it but there are other interesting matchups in this game as well to your point um i think it's going to be a really good interesting test for the fevers front court that is the aspect of their roster that i have the most questions about um we saw it without alia boston in the preseason um obviously alia boston in the picture you know top 10 player all wmba player changes a lot uh however this is a thin front court um they lose natasha howard they bring in a lot of new players and they bring in a lot of which i think is a much better um on court fit uh they bring it bring back dantas who i don't know we'll see how much she kind of has left in the tank um and then they bring in maisha hines allen who i don't want to be mean but maisha hines allen is kind of who you bring in when you can't get like somebody else like for the last few seasons we've kind of seen i know there was a time that predates my like watching of wmba basketball where she was on a title team um and was like an important contributor that but it does feel like the modern game has passed her by to a degree the minnesota links tried to bring her in as their like front court piece off of the bench and ultimately just didn't end up playing her a lot because she couldn't really fit in with the modern style of basketball that they wanted to play um then you see the same thing sort of happen last year as well both of those teams by the way then they end up bringing in jessica shepherd so maybe that's what happens and down the line maybe indiana just brings in jessica shepherd but i'm gonna give maisha a little bit of grace for that minnesota run because i don't think they beat connecticut without her in that semi-final series so you gotta you gotta win that series to get to the finals in the first place um i mean that was a series that suited her particular skills against that yes yes i guess in that you know what that's a good point because i do think that that that the league while so much of the league has become more um kind of like modern oriented there are some teams out there that are just going to be able to destroy you with size the smash mouth helps a little bit in some matchups it does it does you're right you're right like again she's going to be important in like an atlanta dream matchup she's going to be important in like a in a new york liberty matchup she'll she's actually she'll be important in this dallas game i think you know what she she might be sort of like outside of like the the stars like kind of the player to watch in this game yeah i mean i also think if maisha hollins is a next factor for you you probably don't have enough depth on your roster so yeah so both things kind of apply exactly exactly um then the other end i think i think for dallas it's a huge uh test for their perimeter defense as well it'll be kind of az's first shot at seeing um you know her ability to to hold up and i think kelsey mitchell's unfortunately that's that's definitely like a welcome to the wnba type of player to have to go against in in a moment i do have a question about dallas for you yeah sure i'm not sure i'm not sure if jose fernandez has answered this and i've just missed it but how would you start their perimeter like who would be your three guards uh in your starting lineup for dallas i mean what do you think they're going to do i mean i think you start with page az and arique and then like you just have to you you can't i think if you eventually like i think maybe you're getting it maybe that's not not not enough defense that they might have to make a change later i also just think page i realize she can do a lot of ball handling i always feel like she's played better with the true point guard next to her so i like odyssey sims next to her in the starting lineup even if that means maybe you bench az uh but yeah i think it's just i'm not sure what direction they're going to go because i think the page odyssey combination has worked quite well so far again preseason i'm not trying to read too much in preseason but watching page historically i've always liked her next to a traditional like one that's really interesting because i think as much as you definitely want the ball in page's hands as much as you possibly can and to me she is she's a point guard i think i think both sides of like the cc page stand them have this like sort of argument where they where they kind of are low key shading the other player by being like oh well that that player is really a shooting guard not neither of them are shooting guards they're both point guards let's just get that out of the way um but to your point and i think this is a point that i think is really important is that applies to caitlyn as well they both are really good at doing things off of the ball so you do want to have somebody on the court to maximize them that will be able to handle the ball and allow them to play off of it like give up the ball so they can get the ball back at some point because page is one of the best cutters in the league she's one of the best spot up players in the league she is great off of screens she's also great off of pick and rolls and isolate so you want to get her like a mixed out a balanced diet of everything but maybe maybe the onus is a little bit on a rike because she is more of a primary ball handler who can handle that pressure to become that player but you can also i'm interested you can you can hear the lilt in my voice when i say this early injury to arique where she didn't play in the preseason sort of enable jose to bring her off the bench to start just to like ease her back in and then maybe you've settled on something that works going forward i don't know if she's but she's playing again she's playing though i would assume she's playing right yeah yeah she just hasn't played all preseason okay yeah it's a good excuse i mean i think i remember the warriors did this with like david lee got injured in the preseason when steve kirby became the coach and they're like i guess we'll start raymond green and then secretly what everybody wanted to see happen and then like then they became a dynasty and there was no looking back like everybody else had to get on board so i could see some him pulling some potential chicanery here but at the same time though jose has been so open like he's been so upfront about arique i want you here like she did an interview where she talked about the first time they talked he was very clear that like her skill set is something that you know despite like my narrative to the contrary is very much what he feels like can fit and then she did an interview with unrivaled where she kind of just like had a throwaway line of like you know we'll see what happens in the offseason i don't really know where i'm gonna end up he called her after and was like just to reiterate we want you here so i i think that he's definitely gonna like he's i imagine he's got some plans for her that we probably haven't seen yet i imagine he's gonna try to give that the old college try and then we'll see what happens though if it if if because of the perimeter defense because of the on uh you want that's what makes this matchup so interesting is because both of these teams like i would not say perimeter defense is their strong suit but man can they score and yes you also have to try to guard them yeah well the fever have the same sort of dynamic totally same dynamic as well like they have at least you have lexi hall who's kind of like your de facto stopper like yes if you're playing page az and arique i feel like you're going to have to play a little bit more like making az your de facto stopper as a rookie is just rude to her well isn't page your de facto stopper or you make her do all of that yeah i mean that's what page does and that's also why you have two really good players you can say that's what page does but like that's what like kk arnold was for you know like everybody else that's like she's okay maybe she's not like your de facto de facto stopper and like but i do think that there are aspects of of defense that she was yeah that she was really good at but like i don't want her as like my primary she's probably not your isolation defender but she's yeah you're right like they have i like her quite a bit yeah i mean they have i mean az is a good off-ball defender too that's really that is actually the one element that they are missing is is like yeah that's a good point that's a good point yeah maybe we see that happen at some point this season you also have so much room protection with jess shep and alana smith maybe you're just you're just going to funnel people into them and hope you can live with that um yeah indiana has the same issue i have like with with with caitlin um i just wrote about this today you want to be able to play her on and off the ball there's this huge sort of argument of okay like what's the best way to play and build around caitlin clark right and for me it's always been play her on and off the ball do the same thing you kind of want to do with page so you can take advantage of her incredible spot-up shooting ability um and i think that's a really um her gravity she is despite the fact that she hasn't done it a lot in the in the wnba she was a great cutter at iowa um and you also just want to take the load off of her a little bit too now the argument from fever fans has always been well she did that at iowa because she actually got the ball back now that's where you you take out natasha howard who famously had that post up where cc is like begging for her for the ball um and you bring in an actual point guard in raven johnson who that is what she's doing right now and she's like oh my god she's like oh my god she's like oh my god she did for four years at south carolina she was the distributor she's i think for all the things she's underrated at somehow as a point guard her passing might be the most underrated aspect of her ability i think there's this like misconception that she was just setting up all these talented posts in in south carolina and yes she's a great post-up passer and she will once again be throwing up post uh throwing post entries to alia boston at the same time she became like just a really good creator for other players by the time by the end of her journey in uh in south carolina so like that's why she's that's a big part of why she's there in my mind is to allow caitlin to kind of play on and off the ball as well i mean kelsey can just let caitlin play off the ball too like you can rotate between the two of them so i realize kelsey isn't like your traditional point guard but she can like at least initiate some actions that allow caitlin to not have to do everything all the time yeah yeah but we don't see that happen as much like as much as kelsey has maybe yeah well kelsey has grown a lot as a playmaker she's still more of your like i'm gonna drive in and i'm gonna bring the defense to me and i'm gonna dump it off to a big which is obviously incredibly valuable and she's actually become a really really great nifty passer in that regard she's still somebody that i think is thinking like i'm a sicko i'm gonna score 25 points per game and i i would prefer that like i actually just don't like let's not turn kelsey mitchell into like a a passer for caitlin clark like i want her to be a she she can continue doing what she's doing in that regard um yeah is there anything else about this matchup that that intrigues you i mean i feel like we've really gotten into it but um you know we've had all of these new coaches come into the w over the last couple years and jose fernandez is the latest from the college line uh he's just incredibly highly regarded you know um like the kind of thing a casual fan wouldn't recognize from having just seen his bio like oh he can't do that he can't do that he can't do that he can't do that he came from south florida mid-major school but no he is very very highly regarded among his peers and i'm admittedly as someone who didn't watch a ton of south florida when he was in college i can raise my hand on that too so can literally everybody else yeah yeah it'll be what is like what is his style of play here when he has this level of talent you know how is he going to try to work with page um what does he envision her as right like is it more of that on and off um yeah i just wonder like what is his style of play here when he has this level of what this all works what this all looks like in his system yeah it'll be really interesting uh page has already compared him to gino i also do think that he came with the gino endorsement as well the fact that they're buds absolutely helps it totally helps um i've also been really impressed by his training camp which is like the most like pre-season polycock ever however at the same time i do think that there's been a structure and he's very clear in what he wants from his players like he wants page shooting more threes he wants him to be a better player he wants him to be a better he wants az letting it fly he wants lee uero um improving her post defense like those are all like and and rebounding a little bit like those are all things that like i don't think we always hear coaches like very straight up communicate hey this is what i need from you at least like in a public way and i think that from what i've heard from like the like the player interviews as well like there has been that structure and that clarity in terms of like this is what we need from you so i am optimistic not even cautiously optimistic i think he's going to be a pretty good coach um there's a lot of interesting coaches in this year though um one coach that i think can be a bit of a dark horse coach of the year candidate i texted you about this and you were kind of like i don't know uh but sonja rumman is someone who is certainly not like i wouldn't give her like the the top odds but just watching them in the pre-season she has started to uh to to put in this system that empowers guards to do things that from two players in particular i have just not seen them do before the first is lexi brown and if you remember about a year ago lexi brown said that she was working on her creation game and i think a lot of people panned her for it um and now fast forward a year later sonja rumman wants pretty much all of her guards to be able to off of the dribble there have been moments in pre-season where lexi brown has like asked for a clear out and been like it's it's gonna be me this is like a career spot-up shooter and it has gone pretty well and then you have zia cook who honestly looked like she was going to be out of the wnba i have not seen her play with this level of like confidence probably since she was in south carolina then you add in i think she can do some really interesting things with dominique milan and awa fam uh seattle's positionless basketball style her integrating nba concepts into the game i'm not saying she's gonna win coach of the year i'm just saying she's a very interesting coach that i have my eye on and if at some point seattle which i don't expect to win a lot of games if they rattle off like a four or five game win streak i'm gonna start a conversation i'm gonna tell you with 100 certainty that developmental coaches do not win coach of the year you gotta make the playoffs it is uh unfortunately just a fact about the voting process here um which i i think is a mistake you know i i loved what sydney johnson did last year for example in washington no love in the coach of the year situation despite developing two rookie all-stars so uh i don't disagree with what you've seen out of seattle during the pre-season again god i hate to put so many caveats on this pre-season basketball but I just can't equate that with the coach of the year conversation. I just don't. it's going to happen. I feel like this award is Jose's to lose, honestly. Like if Dallas just does like a four or five seed, you know, like he's going to get the lion's share of the credit for that in terms of the coach of the year vote. It's just always like whoever exceeds expectations, right? So Carlos Masco had his year last year. Natalie Nakase had her year last year. You know, this could be, uh, it's like Chicago, you know, gets into the six, seven playoff spot. Like all of a sudden we're talking about Tyler Marsh, right? I'm just telling you, this is what's going to happen. I'm not saying this is how we should view who the best coaches in the WNBA are. I forgot my Chicago side square jar at home. And actually also none of my Chicago IRAs should be going to against, against Tyler. That was just, that was just habitual of me. That was, if they do get a six seed, he should absolutely be in the conversation. You're right. Um, well, thank you for walking me back a little bit on the preseason stuff. I do think I'm going a little bit crazy. I think I need regular season basketball games to start soon. Don't we all? Here's a, here's a more kind of just, you know, down the middle pick for potential coach of the year, another first year coach, but Krista Marco coaching the New York Liberty. I think that there's obviously a lot of eyes on him. There's going to be a lot of pressure because the Liberty fired Sandy Brandello who had won a title with them the year before. Um, and what a weird situation, first of all, for Sandy Brandello and that coaching staff to walk into where you don't even really get an extension after winning a title. You're like lame ducks coming off a championship lame duck after the titles is tough. I would be calling my agent. Oh man. Yeah. I would be, I would be on the phone with my agent if I was a lame duck. Um, I like the situation she ended up in, but yes, let's get back to Krista Marco Liberty. Very talented. Yeah. You think he has a chance here? Well, if they, if they end up like, if they live up to their expectations, because like I said, this is always the on, paper team. If he can actually get them to live up to their potential on, especially on the offensive end, which I think there's a legitimate shot for him to do that, then yeah, I think they're going to end up winning a ton of games. It could be the number one seed. They are currently the title favorites. Um, as we learned, as we, as we learned on this podcast, um, and just to reiterate, that is a little insane. However, um, this is a world. Um, I think that there's a lot of interest in him. I think there's a lot of interest in him. I think there's a lot of interesting things that he can do with a Liberty offense that I think the Liberty front office was left wanting with, with Sandy Brindello, right? Like there's a lot of potential for versatility here. And I think it's an interesting, like sort of larger WNBA conversation where the league has gotten more versatile, right? Like players have gotten more versatile. You do have players that are starting to step out of their positional roles. However, it is not like super charged yet. And Nate Tibbetts is a perfect example of a coach who advantage of that last year where Alyssa Thomas has always been one of the most, you know, modern, unique sort of WNBA curios, a player who, you know, handles the ball and is a point guard, uh, while, you know, kind of having the dimensions of, of a power forward. And, um, she did that in Connecticut with, with Stephanie white. However, there was still some sort of like conformity to positional convention within that, right? Like, and then Phoenix just decides, Oh, you are a primary ball handler. We are going to like, just run, pick and roll through you in a way that we've never done before. As a result of that, Alyssa Thomas basically has like a career year, like a Renaissance, um, at age 32 or 33. And I think John Quayle Jones could potentially be in that, in a similar category there. Um, she is initiating pick and roll more. She's always been a player. Look, she's tall. She has good touch. She's very skilled. You can throw Alyssa Thomas in that sense and that you don't want to put her in the post at all. Like you want her to do some of that, but she's not really an isolation player. Um, and I think that she's kind of always gotten a little bit lost in this New York team where, because she's not necessarily the player that you like have to throw the ball down in the middle too, but she is a center and yes, she's a playmaker. Um, and she's a three point shooter. She's kind of, she's had to just like get in where she fits in. And even while doing that, she's like been a finals MVP and at this time around, I think she's actually going to be like highlighted. And that's just the, that's just the start. There's a lot of different things that Liberty could do. Yeah. I think JJ is the right place to start here because Stewie, just no matter what system you run, Brianna Stewart is going to find a way to excel. She is like one of the most malleable players I've ever seen in the WNBA and just consistent. Her floor is about as high as any player I've ever watched. Um, the ball's going to be in Sabrina's hands a good amount of time. Like let's be clear, Chris DeMarco is a Sabrina Nescu hire. So like, she is going to be prioritized in this situation. Um, JJ was the kind of player who. I just want to, just a second there. So I think that there's a perception that she is a Sabrina, that he is a Sabrina Nescu hire. And yes, I do think that there's a connection there. She's a Bay Area person. She has a lot of connections with the Warriors. She shares a trainer with Steph Curry. I definitely, and you don't, you just simply do not approve on a Chris DeMarco hire without Sabrina Nescu, um, being, you know, involved. At the same time, I think, um, the Buddy Heal, Jonquell Jones connection was also a big part of Chris DeMarco, um, joining the Liberty. And also I think something that was taken into account because out of all the free agents that you saw leaving, Jonquell probably had the highest chance of leaving. So I do think that they both had like, I don't, I don't know what the, like where the pie chart is on who had the most say, but I definitely think that both of them were like very much on board. Yes. Totally. Yeah. Go ahead. I look at the 2025 season with New York and they, uh, sort of re-imagined their offense at the start of the season, more five out. And you can understand the logic behind it because when you have a center like Jonquell Jones, six foot six, but can also shoot the lights out of the ball, it makes sense to optimize your spacing. And for whatever reason, like Jonquell just felt so lost in that role, like didn't know where her touches were coming, kind of floating from three point line to three point line, uh, in that offense. And I think getting her on board right away is like the most important thing Chris DeMarco can do because, uh, like the gap between Jonquell's floor and ceiling, like I talk about Stewie have like the highest floor in the WNBA, the gap between Jonquell's floor and ceiling is probably bigger than any player in the WNBA. Like it can go in a lot of different directions for JJ when she is invested, she is invested. And when she's not like, you're just struggling to wonder why this incredibly physically talented player is just not making an impact on the court. So her being involved in the offense, her having clearly defined roles and understanding like where her shots are going to come from, where she's going to get her touches is far and away. And I think that's, I think that's a really important thing. I think that's far and away, like what Chris DeMarco has to figure out. And I'm glad you mentioned the Bahamas connection again, because like he did serve as the head coach for the men's national team. Right. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's to me, like Chris DeMarco's number one role is like, I understand how Sabrina is going to get used. I understand how Stewie is going to get used. Satu is new. Like I understand she's incredibly talented. Like one of the only all-stars to change teams this off season, but like, she is not as high on the pecking order to me as Jonquell Jones because of what Jonquell has done for this franchise already. Like the finals MVP and their lone championship. Right. So if Chris DeMarco figures out how to use JJ and they win a lot of regular season games and yeah, I think that coach of the year case makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Well, the other thing I think he can do is, is, is protect Sabrina on defense and Sabrina has improved a lot as a defender. So I don't want to make this like, like as far as a weekly goes, like she's, she's, she's improved so much, especially as an isolation defender, she has gotten stronger. She's even stronger this year. You can see that in her screen setting. She is setting screens in this offense. And I mentioned that because that is basically her doing Steph Curry things. And this is a guy who coached Steph Curry. This is a guy who was also like, he was a bigger part of the defense and he was the offense. And I think one of the things that the Liberty were looking for was a tactical coach who, when teams decide to target Sabrina, like the Mercury did in the post-season last year, it can't just be like, okay, now we're done. Right. And this is a guy who figured out different ways to protect Steph Curry throughout the course of four different title runs. Whether that was scram switching, whether that was, you know, like just, just playing junkies own defenses, whether that was like just getting him away from the ball, there were so many different things that they did in order to not make it so that every possession down the floor could be, Hey, like, let's just switch a big, let's switch a Satu. Let's switch onto Sabrina Yanescu. And then that's it. Like we have no solutions after that. And I think that's, that's potentially going to be a big part of it too. So yeah, like he's definitely out there for me. Steph White is another, another person who just has to be up there, especially if it's Caitlin on ball experiment works. Becky, we talked about Carl Smesko. There's a, it's a, it's, it's a wild field. Lynn Roberts, Lynn Roberts, Sabrina. I think this is our main point of disagreement at the start. I think it is. I think it is. So listeners, Sabrina and I feel very differently about the Los Angeles Sparks and our level of optimism about their season and how we feel about the trades that they made. You have heard plenty from me though. So Sabrina, I'll let you go here. Yeah. I like the Sparks starting lineup quite a bit. I think their bench could be the worst in the WNBA. I am terrified of what I've seen out of Cameron Brink in the preseason. I don't think they know what they're doing with her on offense. I don't think Lynn is really involving and spend like the Portland preseason game. was, uh, shocking to be clear. Um, and like beyond those five, like Kelsey Plum or, uh, Ariel Atkins, Ray Burrell, Neko Gumike, DRK Hamby, I think it's going to be perfectly, can go up against pretty much any starting lineup in the W. Although I am a little concerned about the size in that front court, because neither Neko nor D is like really a five in terms of rim protection. Uh, but like once you hit that bench, I mean, you're relying on rookies, Tenaya Ladson, Chance Gray, um, June Park's probably gonna be a part of this team. Cameron Brink is like the only real rim protector. And, uh, she like needs to be insane defensively to make up for the fact that again, they're just like not using her on offense. Um, and like either that's like pick and popping or like figuring out how to use her as a roller, because like the screen setting just isn't working that well. Um, I, I have, I have concerns about the overall depth here and like, it's not an 82 game season. But 44 games is a lot of games and you've got to get through them. And, uh, that means like Erica Wheeler is like the only bench player who I know I'm getting what I'm getting out of her in, uh, in Los Angeles. And that's, that's just concerning. I think you need a deeper team to really succeed in the WNBA right now, especially with expansion, more and more teams are going to miss the playoffs. So, uh, yeah, I, I have some concerns about the, uh, the upside of this sparks team. Okay. Okay. Valid. I do think that, uh, Cam Cam Brink is, is definitely the biggest X factor. And that is to your point, scary, especially in a post less physical, um, play allowed refereeing world where she was already kind of struggling with staying on the court. That's sort of been the story of her career thus far. I also just think it's a lot of pressure to put on a player, to have them be like your sort of primary rim protector, uh, you know, coming off of an ACL tear and only being in her second year trying to, or her third year. Um, but really she's, she's functionally only played like, I think a year of basketball, right. Um, a little less, I think even so. Yeah. Only about 34 games. Yeah. So totally heard. Get it. Um, I think while I have concerns about the team, while I think on paper, I am not a proponent for giving away young players to bring in stars. I'm not a proponent for giving away young players to bring in stars. To try to accelerate a title run. I just find myself understanding why they did it. And I think that they, my biggest thing is they brought the right people in, um, the Ariel Atkins for Rekia Jackson trade is one that I just, the more I think about it, the more okay I am with it. Um, and it seems like the more okay Rekia herself is, I think we've now since like found out that it's something that she kind of wanted, uh, as well. And the sparks worked with her to get her to Chicago. Um, and I think that's, I think that's, I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good because as much as she had started to integrate herself into a Lynn Roberts offense, I emphasize this three and D she is somebody who wants to dominate that sort of like eight to 14, 15 feet area of the rim that Lynn Roberts is not necessarily the biggest fan of. Now she's going to have to become a bigger fan with Nneka Ogumike in the picture. Um, but even Nneka like stretched her game out a lot when she was in Seattle. Yeah, for sure. She's certainly not the same Nneka who played with the sparks years ago. Um, but on that point, I think bringing in Nneka shores up your defense. I can't remember the last time a Nneka Ogumike team missed the playoffs and she was healthy. I think there was, it was really only those Derrick Fisher teams. 2023. I mean, well, Derrick Fisher, not Derrick Fisher, Kurt Miller, Kurt Miller. Okay. Oh, right. Yeah. That was a, but it was like with the stink of, of like all of that. Like I think, I think, but that's really it. Like every, every other year she's made the playoffs like since like being like in the second or third year, I think she just gives you a floor because of, I just think she's one of the most versatile players that we have in the league. She's a great defender. Um, and I think she's kind of an underrated player. Like I, she should be like a dark horse MVP candidate. She's like, she should be kind of every year. She should be in that conversation and she kind of never is. Um, and I think Ariel Atkins is kind of in the same ilk where it's like, you know, two players that can do a lot of good things. On the court that we don't necessarily talk about in the way that maybe we talk about some of their contemporaries. Um, I think Atkins in particular just shores up their defense so much. And I think that she's going to have a bounce back year. Um, because the defensive improvement from Azariah Stevens and Rekia Jackson to Ariel Atkins and Neko Gumake is like night and day. It's incredible. It's incalculable. It is incredible. It is incredible. Um, I guess the other question I have too, when we talk about depth is this is going to be an interesting question for the WNBA at large this season, because now we have two new expansion teams. We have developmental roster spots. I think last year you didn't have depth. If you were like, you had like smart, like interleague personnel scouting, you could, you could like find players on the waiver wire to get your, to get some depth. You know what I mean? Um, and I don't know if those opportunities are going to be there. And I am similarly like you, I'm very concerned. I'm more concerned about their front court depth. I think like, I feel pretty good about their depth. I think like, I know some people disagree, but I think like Kelsey Plum, Ariel Atkins, Ray Burrell, Erica Wheeler, and then like maybe one of Chance Gray or Tenaya Ladson, if they hit, like I, I'm really just, I'm good with that. But the, yeah, the, the front court, it's certainly, it's certainly a problem. There's no real wing depth either. Yeah. I guess like they'll probably just go with a lot of like, like Atkins will be your backup three. Yeah. Well, Atkins, I think they play Burrell at the three sometimes last year. She'll be starting at the three. Right. Yeah. And then, I mean, they'll probably play Hamby at the three as well for when they play, um, Hamby and Nneka together with Cam. And again, that is a spacing challenge lineup. It is a challenge. You're making points. I just, I feel good. I like, I, I feel good about it. I feel good about it. You know, I'm wearing yellow. Like I live in LA. I would love to have some sunny optimism about the You're just not there yet. You're just not there yet. Um, on the note of Cam Brink, I wanted to talk a little bit about, um, the new emphasis on reffing being less physical. Um, Nafisa Collier talked about this in an interview with NPR in the morning edition. It was certainly illuminating interview. Very illuminating interview. We'll certainly get into, into all of that show. We've talked about it. Other players have talked about it. Cleo Copper has talked about it. Satu Sabli has talked about it. There was a sense last year that the physicality of the game and the ref's ability to control the game had just gotten out of control. And I agree. There were way too many dustups last year. You just simply cannot have a league that, you know, going into its 30th year, you kind of like, this is your glow up year. We just, the league simply cannot be defined by, um, these plays anymore. Like that, that just can't be what it's going viral for. Um, at the same time, there's been some pushback to it. Like defense should still be a part of the league. And there, the way that reffing should go is like, there should be some, like, it should be like a vast ecosystem of different sort of players that should get to exist. Right? Like, I think like one player I'll be watching is Alyssa Thomas. How, how much is she impacted by this? Because I like it. I like a WNBA where a player like Alyssa Thomas can thrive. I like a WNBA where a player like Cody McMahon, after she comes back from her injury can thrive. Um, so to me, it's going to be all about finding that balance. But I do think that there are definitely some players who are losers here. Like there's like the Alyssa Thomas, there's, um, there's a lot of Cody McMahon, there is Cameron Brink, and there are also some, actually, you know what, sneakily, Ariel Atkins is kind of a loser here. Cause she, she foul, she, she be fouling on the perimeter. She is hand checking out on the perimeter. Like, like it is her day job. Um, so there are some, there's some, there's some sneaky, um, it'd be funny if my sparks, sparks argument just completely falls apart on the, the new reffing rules. Although Kelsey Plum is going to be a as well as well. So it'd be interesting, but good. Like the, we've seen obviously a lot of NBA influence seep into the WNBA in recent years, whether that's through the coaching hires or some of the general manager hires. And now all of the new teams coming in are under NBA ownership. And I kind of wonder if they're trying to standardize the officiating processes too, because for a long time, the WNBA has been a more physical league than the NBA. There's more contact that's allowed. And I do think it crossed a bad point last year, you know, like when the most notable play of the post-season other than Asia Wilson's shot is the piece of collier, like breaking both of her ankles. I don't think that's how you want your product to be advertised. Right. I think like there was a tipping point, but I also just don't believe that like there were preseason games, not on national TV that took two and a half hours. This is a 40 minute game. Yeah. Okay. Like I think the onus is also on the players to adjust to how the game is being officiated because, you know, clearly there have been significant changes in the type of contact that is allowed now versus last season. But I don't necessarily think that we need to reach like an NBA regular season level of style of play. You know, like I think it is okay that this is a more physical league. I don't think that's a problem. I think there's some middle ground that needs to be achieved between what happened last year and like what men's basketball looks like. So I would just hope that like with all of the cross pollination between these two leagues that like, we're not just getting the exact same style of officiating because frankly, I just don't think that the WNBA needs that during the regular season. No, I completely agree with you. My hope is that the preseason refereeing is sort of just an attempt to get players to recognize that things are changing. I hope that they're just overcorrecting a little bit in games that don't matter so that by the time they do, everybody's kind of with the program. I also think if we're going to cross-pollinate, let's cross-pollinate in the quality of referees as well, right? That's a big part of this. The NBA gets the best referees. I agree. I think one thing that's interesting too is whether you're going to have this conversation in the lens of like, do you want the gameplay to be better? Which, yes, absolutely. Do you want the refereeing to be better to prevent injuries? That too, but I think it gets complicated when you start talking about that. There are certain injuries that are preventable. Like the fee injury I don't think happens if the game is being officiated differently. Certain concussions, Satu Sab, like there's certain things that don't happen, especially down low. And on drives that are, you know, kind of like that are issues that players get injured over. I feel like this is like a constant criticism that I have with basketball in general. Like the amount of contact allowed in the paint versus on the perimeter is just wildly disparate. We need to figure out how to address that first. Yeah, and I think the WNBA is over-indexed on that to a wild degree. Like things are allowed in the paint that are just like, how? Like it just stops feeling like basketball at a certain point. But the other thing is like, look, these players got paid. Now, if you are anybody that has a financial interest in this league, this is like the players have gone, I don't like to refer to players as assets, but you want to protect your asset now. If you're paying somebody a million dollars, suddenly you care a lot more about how hard they get hit on a screen. Like, or about like their landing space. Like that's just, that's just human psychology. That's just how it goes. So it's like, there are things you put in a safety deposit box and there are things you don't. Have you heard about the status of this officiating committee that was being formed in response to Nafisa Collier's injury last year? I personally. I did see a release about five new officials being hired all with G League experience. Well, all WNBA refs have to go through the G League, which is another thing that doesn't really make a lot of sense. That kind of destroys the piping, the pipeline. But I'll tell you, if anybody's interested. Another conversation. I can definitely dig into that at some point. The other thing that Fi talked about that is breaking the internet today. So Nafisa Collier was asked about her decision to only sign a one-year contract with the Minnesota Lynx. And look, her response was very down the middle. It certainly wasn't something that inspired confidence. And I think that it's something that has sort of gotten me. I think now we're a little bit off to the races with conversations that were starting to percolate a little bit behind the scenes. But all right, let's play the clip first, and then we can get to it. Why did you sign for just one year? I am so focused on the now. Like, I just came off two ankle surgeries. I'm trying to get back on the court. And, like, this was such a whirlwind. We had, with the CBA going on and all these things, like, everything was happening so fast. I just wanted to be able to focus on getting on the court with my team this year and winning a championship. But you are the team leader. They would have given you three years, five years, whatever you wanted. Again, I think just, like, not looking too far into the future in that way, in that I want to be able to stay focused on my recovery. I've never had surgery before like this. I've never had to come back from injury. This is new for me, and I wanted to be able to give it my all and focus on the now. I don't know. We haven't talked about this offline at all. I don't know what you've been hearing. This has been percolating for a little while now. There have been conversations. The fee-leaving Minnesota conversation has been quietly loud and quietly quiet at different points in probably, like, the last over a year or so. There could be many reasons for that potentially happening. I think that the most interesting thing to me is a new CBA context and a new ownership group in Minnesota. I do think that the ownership group has made some personnel decisions that players have not agreed with. I think that if you're fee, you're probably thinking about your marketability in Minnesota versus another franchise. This is also not something that's ever been lost on Cheryl Reeve, who has simultaneously advocated for Minnesota getting more media coverage while sort of chastising the media itself for not covering Minnesota. The other thing, too, is that I don't know what Minnesota's advantage is as a destination if they are not the highest-functioning franchise in the WNBA anymore. That's always been their advantage, but they've never really been a free agency destination. They are a place that builds through the draft and that everybody applauds. But even we saw it this offseason, right? Gabby Williams had a choice between going to Minnesota to play with Fee. She also could have gone to Phoenix. She chose to go to the Golden State Valkyries. She does have a lot of personal connections to the Valkyries and the Bay Area. And, like, the French national team basically forms half of Golden State's roster. So, you know, lots of decision-making factors there. No, for sure. For sure. For sure. I think, oh, look, I think Cheryl put it best today. I think Fee is going to be a free agent for the first time. And I think 15 teams are going to be vying for her services. And I think the Lynx will be one of them. And I think other teams, actually, particularly the Valkyries, who, if you look at some of their decision-making, I think one of the best ways to make sense of it all is maybe they thought that they were going to be able to get ahead of what will probably be a sweepstakes for Fee and try to trade for her this summer. Like, they say that they. You know what would have been a nice trade asset for a piece of collier is Flage Johnson. Well, it's interesting. I mean, I think, so, Golden State, they waived Marta Suarez after, you know, trading Flage for her, which obviously raised a lot of questions. In the 2028 second round. Thank you. You're always keeping me, you're always holding me accountable. They end up. So, they end up waiving. Ohema Niyanen talks about it on Media Day and says that the trade was made to maintain cap flexibility. They still have a whole bunch of cap space and a Nafisa Collier-shaped hole in their roster. And. You don't think Janelle Salon is a power forward of the future? I think Janelle Salon is a small forward of the future. I think she's going to be a three-level scorer on the wing. Cool. I think she can very much fit into that kind of roster. But, the reason I talk about the roster is because I was thinking about, before free agency started, I was thinking about who would be the perfect point guard that was available to pair with Nafisa Collier. And the player that kept coming into my mind that I knew they weren't going to be able to get because she was restricted was Veronica Burton. So, the basketball fate is there. Gabby Williams, who she tried to recruit and is her really good friend, is there. This is a franchise that's owned by Joe Lacob. They are going to swing for the fences. They were the team that, you know, this is a Kevin Durant team, right? Like, they're going to try to make plays like that. And I think that they are, you know, despite the kerfuffle of this offseason, still going to be up there and very highly positioned as a team that could potentially be in the sweepstakes for her. They also just waived Kate Martin, who shares an agent with Nafisa Collier. Which is interesting because, A, it's. Why would you waive Marta Suarez if you're going to waive. Waive Kate Martin anyways is certainly a question I have if I'm a Valkyries fan. But also, I wonder if that's a bit of like a, hey, Accel, we haven't really been. We don't really necessarily have a role for your girl. Maybe we'll set her free as a bit of like a, just a way to get, to getting good with you guys. I know you don't want to engage with this. There's just like so much going on. Like, we went from Minnesota, the Golden State to, you know, agency conspiracy theories. The one thing I do want to hit on, I think the change in ownership in Minnesota, like, can't be overstated. For as much as I think the Minnesota Timberwolves love having Mark Lurie and Alex Rodriguez around, and, wow, has that franchise taken a real step up in the last couple of years? I don't think A-Rod at WNBA Board of Governors meetings is going to go for quite as well. So, I am intrigued by how all of that plays out on the link side. I still think playing for Cheryl Reeve is a real draw. And I do think, you know, you mentioned they developed through the draft. They've actually done very well in free agency, not at the superstar level, but like at the all-star level, you know, bringing in Kayla McBride. Courtney Williams had been an all-star before she joined Minnesota, although her value was a little bit depressed because she was playing for Chicago. But, you know, the team that they built that went to the finals was, a lot of it came through free agency other than a piece of collar. And I do think playing with Olivia Miles is going to be a draw. Like, if you have a superstar in fee, like, that's going to be a draw. But, obviously, like, keeping her is the main part. And I, I think it is interesting that like she and Jackie young chose to maintain their flexibility. where they can't be court next year because of the new CBA rules. Like they actually can really have unrestricted free agency, uh, for the first time in their careers. And maybe you just want like the freedom, you know, it's not even so much like I need to move. It's just like get that stupid core off my contract. Like I just want, you know, to have a choice in the matter. Um, but yeah, I, I think it'd be very easy for fee to just say like, I love Minnesota. It's been a big part of my career. Like I would love to have a future here. And she didn't say any of that. So, uh, you know, something to keep an eye on. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think the ownership piece matters. Um, for all of Glenn Taylor's faults as an NBA owner, he was always a champion of the Minnesota links. Totally. Um, and if you're fee, maybe you, you're just trying to be a little bit of an operator here of, Hey, like a rod, Mark Laurie, it feels like we've become an afterthought for you. And I do have freedom and flexibility now. Yeah. I just think this is fun. Because like, we've been able to have conversations like this about the WNBA very often. Like the players really had this level of like freedom and maneuverability and like leverage and leverage to be able to say, we've seen what the players are able to accomplish with some leverage. Hey, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Specifically in a physical year. So I think it's going to be something to watch. I'm not saying like she's leaving or anything like that. Um, I look, you have show a review of Olivia miles. You have this season. Um, you have, you have a year to get your shit together, listen to her superstar, give her some of what she wants. If she comes back this season, go real heavy on the MVP push, show her that she can be just as big of a star in Minnesota as she can anywhere else. Um, and Hey, look, she's on NPR. She's on, she's on the good morning America circuit. She's doing podcasts with Kamala Harris, right? Like, but is there an X, is there an extra level? And so much of that for her has been self, created as well. Um, so, and Hey, look, that's also on the media as well. We got to care about the small market teams, um, as, as much as we care about the other ones, but, uh, look, we're entering pretty interesting and I don't want to say uncharted territory for the WNBA. There's a Candace Parker, uh, deal that certainly exists, but this is a new era. This is a bit of a new era. Yeah. Jackie Yang was a good name check as well. I do think it'll be very interesting to see what she does next year as well. Um, yeah. All right. Um, is there anything else you wanted to get into before I let you go? Let's see. Um, I made all of my preseason predictions at the athletic and on our podcast. So, um, if you're in the mood for more women's basketball content, listen to that one. Uh, but yeah, I think we've, you know, hashed out our major disagreements here. I guess just last thing. I feel like we've really hyped up Olivia miles. She's your rookie of the year pick, right? Maybe, maybe. Okay. I'm going to be honest. I didn't listen to Monday's show because I didn't want any devil wars product to spoilers. So it came up on that episode. We didn't talk about it on Monday. Um, so I think that Olivia miles might go through some growing pains early this season. Um, I think she will probably get targeted on the defensive end. She's also going to be sharing point guard duties with Courtney Williams. Um, and while she's shown an ability to do that with Hannah Hidalgo, uh, did she? Well, I don't think their problem was on the court. I don't, I don't think their on-court offensive chemistry was necessarily the issue, but I do think, I think, I think miles wanted to be the one, right. Um, be the one and be playing the one and we'll see how that part of it shakes out in Minnesota. I, I also think that, you know, because they're a team that's like trying to make the playoffs, the leash might be a little bit shorter on her as well. Whereas, um, there are some other rookies that are just going to have way more of just like a sort of like empty the clip. I can do whatever I want sort of season. I think, um, Georgia Amor is kind of, I kind of, I kind of, I'm going to plant my Georgia Amor flag here. I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I really think that she can do it. Watching her run in offense is absolutely beautiful and she has done it beautifully in the preseason. Um, it was a great pick for the Mystics last year. And we, then she tore her ACL. Um, her chemistry with Lauren Betts has been fantastic. Lauren Betts is playing with now the best pick and roll creator that she's ever played with. That makes her a candidate in my mind too. Um, yeah. If I were to pick a Mystic, I would go with Betts. Either one of them. I like the Amor pick. Yeah. Yeah. Either one. I think, I think like the rookie, it could be like a co-rookie of the year. Do you pick Sonia Citron or, or Kiki Iriafin? Yeah. Them cannibalizing the vote did not help their cause last year. No. And then they split the vote and it goes to like, um, well also Awa Pham and, and Flagey Johnson could also cannibalize each other as well, which then actually just brings us back to Olivia Miles. Olivia Miles is going to be the only middle. Or AZ Fudd. Or AZ Fudd as well. His number one picks, spoiler alert, usually win this award. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. I do think that this year is going to be way more of a horse race. So kind of like the way that the WNBA draft was where we just didn't, there was no consensus W, a number one pick. I don't think there is a consensus rookie of the year. I feel like ESPN was telling us all year that it was going to be AZ Fudd and we just refused to listen. I had, I had my reasons. I had my reasons. I was, I was among the people who refused to listen. I was very much refusing to listen and then was pretty surprised to be honest. Um, yeah. Oh, you know what? Let's do a quick, since the Valkyries are playing the Storm. I have like five most improved players, candidates on there. Well, not, Ileana Rupier is no longer on there because congratulations to her. She is pregnant. Um, but she was going to be one of my candidates. Janelle Salon, most improved candidate for, for me, for sure. Um, I think she has, an opportunity to evolve into a three level scorer this year. Gabby Williams, like really being given the keys to an offense, hopefully getting more shots at the rim than she got, um, in Seattle. Um, and some more touches too. I talked about Lexi Brown and Zaya Cook. None of these players are the players that like the odds makers think are going to win most improved player of the year. However, that award is a total crapshoot. So I'm just going to go with who I think is going to have a great season. Uh, Jade Melbourne is another player that I think we should be looking at as well. Do you have anybody you're really over indexing on the two teams? Like I'm, Sonia, rum and truth there. Okay. Uh, yeah. You know, I don't, I don't give most improved a lot of thought before the season, because if I knew who was going to improve, then why would you watch? Yeah. Pick them for all W at this point. Yeah. No, that's a good point. I just say like, I mean, I look at the odds for it and it's like Dominique Malanga. Well, she's a second year player like coming out of her. And you just say Janelle Salon. It's different. It's different. She came in halfway through the year. She wasn't like the number two pick, whatever. You're just, you know what? You're absolutely right. You're poking holes in a lot of my logic today and it's, it's going to make me crash out. But you're not wrong. I would just love to not have the conversation of like, Oh, somebody jumped from all-star to MVP candidate. Like they can't be most improved. I think that's a far more impressive improvement than incredible. Yeah. Shout out to Alicia gray out of the league to wrote, you know, fringe players. So I think there are all kinds of improvements and I don't want to be shaded for preferring one kind of improvement to another. We should just have like different categories for the most improved player of the year. Like we should do the player who's like, it looked like they were out of the league. We should do like the role player that becomes an all-star. And then we should do the all-star that becomes like an MVP candidate because they're all impressive and they're impressive in different ways, but there are also like kind of functions of very different things happening. All right. Okay. I'll let you get out of here. Um, read Sabrina's piece on Asia Wilson that came out today was about how she resigned with the aces and that sort of set the table for them to be able to run this team. Back, um, read her coverage on you guys did coach of the year. You guys did rookie of the year. I'm assuming MVP is probably coming out at some point. Yeah. Uh, those are out too. Yeah. Okay. And then on Friday, like some, uh, random predictions are coming out. Okay. A little, a little teaser, a little spoiler. I like it. Beautiful. Okay. Uh, I'll plug myself briefly here as well. We did power rankings for all five teams across three different podcasts. It was five podcasts per team. So we got a chance to really dig into it. Um, and then we did a little teaser, a little spoiler. I like it. Everybody, we talked a little bit more rookie of the year, um, with Steve Jones. Um, and I think that's it. I think that's all a plug. Oh, the devil wears Prada preview. You have, if you have, if you hadn't seen it by, um, by the time we put it out completely understood, but we did a really fun WNBA preview that was, um, in the theme of devil wears Prada, me and my three were, uh, sunglasses for the entire episode. Um, and we basically pitched each other different predictions. Um, and we basically pitched each other and it was a lot of fun. There aren't too many spoilers really until like the end of the pod where we actually talk about, uh, about the movie itself. Um, we spoil a little bit at the start, but we spoil kind of like the first sort of like the introduction to the first act. So it's like not really a spoiler in my mind, at least. However, if you are a purist, um, then, you know, I'd probably stay away from it. All right. Um, we will see you guys soon after these games start. So I can stop obsessing over preseason basketball. Um, yeah, we'll be back on Monday. Uh, thank you for listening. Thank you to Sabrina Merchant. Thank you to Steve Allman. Um, thank you to Jamie. Thank you to Sarah Reddy who helped us with some technical issues, uh, before the podcast began. Thank you to Ben Cruz, Connor Nevins, and Alexa Huval for additional production assistance. And we will be back on Monday. 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