Season 9 | Ep28 Blaine Daws: £1.5M Year One to £15M Today. Working 7 Days a Week to Get There.

I wanted to burn the office down, not with anyone in it, but I just wanted to burn the thing down. And I was probably saying to Carl, like, every other week, I think we should shut this down. When Blaine Doors launched, in January 2020, the plan was simple. He was going to build the biggest AI infrastructure recruitment agency in the world. For two weeks later, the world shut down. His wife was kicking him under the table. His young son in the house with nowhere to go, and every client he had, it just hit pause. So like many founders back then, he dropped his niche, he worked any market he could to start making money. And it worked. They grew to 20 people, took a huge office in central London in the post-COVID boom. But he lost the foothold in that AI niche and over a quarter of a million pounds in doing so. Then he stripped everything back. He let the whole team go. He deleted the database. And he rebuilt the whole business from scratch around the one thing you knew better than anyone. And that was it in video, AI infrastructure. The data centers quietly power in the world's most talked about technology. We actually just started to knock on the doors that I already know. And do you know what? Every door to be quite honest that I knocked on opened up. Once it is now 75 people generating 15 to 20 million in revenue, running a 100 billion GPU infrastructure deployments across Europe at any one time. They get inequity in the companies that they partner with. Now Blaine, he's only 35 years old. He's up at 5am every day. Off to the gym and then work seven days a week from 8am to 10pm at night with a wife and two kids at home. I want to make as much money as possible. Then in five years time when I'm 40, I don't have to do it anymore. When you're 70 years old, you got a lot of fucking money. You're going to look back and go, "I'm glad I made all that money." Or you're going to think, "I've missed that 10-year-old's football game." Let's see how it goes. This is a story about building something extraordinary in probably the hottest recruitment market in the world right now. But it's a question every founder driven by obsession has to face eventually. What is it actually costing you to work so hard? This is a brand new episode of the Rag Podcast with Blaine Doors. Blaine, welcome to the Rag Podcast. Thanks for having me, Sean. It's a pleasure, mate. I was looking just before. I think we've been trying to talk about this and get this in the diaries since September. We're now April. That's like seven months. I'm excited for this because I was genuinely excited about your story then. I think there's even more happened since. Mate, thanks for taking the time out of your busy day. Do me a favor before we get into the story. Just give us the birds eye view of who you are, what you do today so people can figure out who you are. Yeah, yeah. So Blaine Doors co-founder of Wanted. We're at 75 people at the center of NVIDIA. Been working with them from 2015 onwards. Building, scaling, all of the AI infrastructure around the globe. And yeah, as probably anyone listening right now and anyone using open AI and all of the platforms where the people behind building them. Wow. So you're a recruitment arm that attached yourself to probably the biggest AI player in the market and have been silently working in this space for a long time before we even knew it was a thing, right? Yeah, completely. And I think that's just a beautiful thing about AI is that most people thought it's just begun two, three years ago when people first went onto App Store and downloaded chat to you, for example, or one of those platforms where I've been at the center of it for a decade before that, which makes it really interesting because you really get underneath the skin of what's going on. And fortunately for me, it blew up because it was either it blew up or I was redundant and I wouldn't be here. The headline numbers of your business right now, because you're running some serious numbers and I want people to kind of understand the scale of what you've built with such a lean team. Yeah, so 75 people, about 15 million. There's 75,000 recruiters of all. Are they the contractors you have out on site as well? Correct. Correct. So we've obviously got, yeah, correct. So we've got two arms to our business, our statement of work, led operation, which consists of about 55 people give or take for everyone listening to this contract recruitment essentially. Is it because you've sold the project, not just the person, haven't you? You've gone in a bit bigger than just classic contract recruiters. Yeah. The whole responsibility on. Yeah, we're doing the whole delivery for all the AI factory and neo cloud platforms as they build and scale. But obviously statement of work sometimes can be one of those things people like, well, what's that? So yeah, around 55 people in that division. And then for our RPO division, we've got around 20, but that is scaling up rapidly that we can obviously talk about. Right. So you basically have a statement of working on RPO business, but that's not where you came from. Is it like you were? No, no, no. Me and you connected around the pandemic because you just launched, you just launched wanted. Was it 2020? You started the business. Yeah. So it was January 2020 and then COVID hit. In March 2020. What the fuck went three year-end when you were like, were three months in and the world stopped? Honestly, like we had my son at the time and he was only young and school stopped. My wife at a time was kicking me underneath the table because I left a good search business that was very stable like I could have retired there to literally go off on my own. So yeah, it was scary, may actually to be honest. Yeah, I think honesty is the best policy in this sort of world, but yeah, it was scary. So you, because let's go back a bit more though, I mean, if my research is correct that you started life, were you working in data centers? Yeah, so started in data centers in 2008 around October time. That's when I first started out. So my my role back then, we're going back now, I'm sure I'm my age, but back then it was like literally a stack of papers on a desk, a wired phone and you had to call call to basically generate leads for people that was interested in taking their data centers to Eastern Europe. So very niche, very Pacific. And what we done was it was a targeted campaign. So it was marketing, right? You know, it was kind of B2B marketing, essentially. And yeah, I just had data centers and that was kind of what we did day in day out. And I've done that for about five and a bit years. And what that taught me was kind of how to call call, how to get referrals, how to essentially be a good recruiter, even though I didn't know I wanted to do recruitment then. And then you got into search within data centers and artificial intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. So what happened was through a family connection, which I fell into recruitment. I didn't want to do a crew, but I just fell into it. But through a family connection, I got recommended to this search business, which was called DCL, which is obviously still going now. Great business. And their expertise were telecommunications and cyber security. And the data center business didn't really exist. And if it did, it was very small. So I came in sat next to a practice lead. He did telco, learnt from him, worked on some some big accounts like Vodafone, BT, Tartar, all the big names and helped place people that he needed me to do. So like a delivery console. And within kind of six months, I went to the CEO at that time and said, look, data centers is such a good adult to the business. And he was like, look, go for it. Like, we're not doing it. Go and build it. And that's exactly what I've done. And to cut to the numbers within one and a half years, I was top biller 2016, 17 and 2018. I was billing individually without a team all in perm, free 50, 400 and 475, a year as a 360 recruiter. So really solid. And I'll do you at that point? I was around 24 25 young lad making good money. Yeah. You've opened your own market. So where did the idea to launch your own business come from it, such a young age? So kind of become a little bit stagnated. I think my sort of ADHD personality and stuff like that. Just I was bored, you know, and my boss at the time was amazing, but I spent far less time in the room. I was always out the room because I was always walking around like a walk around like the city of London doing laps with a headset just trying to close deals like people must have thought I was psychotic just literally no notes because there was no note takers then there was nothing. It was so hard to recruit back then. And yeah, just was walking around doing laps people like always looking at me like what is this guy doing? Like when I look back at it. it now. But yeah, and to be honest, I just, I had an itch and I went and met loads of different founders and I had four different offers from all good companies. I had an offer from a big search business and I just felt like, look, someone said to me, he said, look, if you've got an itch, make sure you go and scratch it. And this guy's super successful running a big recruitment business and I was, I thought, do you know what, stuck with me in the back of the head? You know, sometimes just people say something and it just sticks. And I thought, I have got an itch and you know what, I should go and scratch it and I should actually do this on my own. And yeah, it was December 2019. I literally went to a family party. I met with my business partner that he'd already sold to recruitment businesses with, with Carl for multi-millions a pound. So I thought, do you know what, this guy knows he's stuff, sold to recruitment businesses. He rocked up in a, in a lovely poultry and I thought, do you know what, this guy's really good. And he said to me, like, why are you going to literally go and line someone else's pockets? He's very direct, you know, Carl. And he said, why are you going to go and do that? And I went, yeah, I could question. He went, well, why did you do it yourself? And I was like, I could do, but the problem is, is that the funding, everything else that goes with building a business. And he was like, don't worry about that. I'll take care of that part. You go, you go and build this business. And literally four weeks later, we was with the lawyers, drafting director contracts together. And we sat up wanted literally in January. And other client order offers. And my wife thought I was mentally insane. And then she thought you definitely were too. What did you manage to achieve before the world closed? Did you get it, get it off the ground? Were you actually building it up? No, no, no, no, we literally had like nothing because we was building, we were building the business. And looking back at it, and again, because AI wasn't around, but you could build something so quick now and we'll get on to that later. But it was painful, you know, like selecting a database, doing all these things. So for the first sort of like January, you know, we bought a database. And then after that, it was like, then what do we need on top of it? And with my background being quiet, exact search, I was very structured. And that's how I work, very structured anyway. And I wanted to make sure that all of the foundations were in place that we could really scale it because at that point in time, I wanted to build like the biggest AI infrastructure agency at that time. Do you know then when you launched wanted that it was going to be around AI infrastructure? Was it all? Yes. So no, so me personally, it was always going to be around data centers at that time. Obviously, prior to that. So it was data centers, but of course, because I was working very closely with Nvidia from their inception in Europe, like first boots on the grounds in my previous business, I knew a lot about AI already. So I knew where it was heading. So me personally, it was data centers and AI infrastructure. And they would are two core pillars that we were going to focus on. That said, we did something completely different. Because what COVID done was it put everybody in isolation. And we didn't know what to do. And physical places aren't it? Physical places, mission critical, 365 days a year. They didn't switch off. They didn't switch off, but tell what did switch off my brain, my brain switched off. And what I had done was, is I done everything that I shouldn't have done. And you learned from that because I was young. And it's good that I did do it. I've got a lot of scars along the way. But I thought, you know what, let's just go and that's market. Let's go and compete with every single agency in London because it's not saturated. And I can be different. And I can have better pool tables, better beer, better incentives, better commission plan. And let's just build something. And was it still AI infrastructure though? No, no, no, we completely, yeah. And what happened was is that every wreck to wreck was working with me because it was exciting. It was fresh. And CVs would come in and I hired people from construction backgrounds that said they knew how to do data centers, but they didn't. I hired people from big agencies in software engineering, which I didn't even know at the time. I wasn't part of software engineering at that time. I hired somebody's cybersecurity. I hired someone in customer success. And we put them all in a room. And I think at peak, we got to 20 recruiters in Monument around the COVID sort of time. And it was a disaster. But it was a boom time. 21, 22, roles were coming out of everywhere. So you weren't the only one who tried to capitalize on the fact that it came across pretty easily. And imagine you did a lot of deals and you made some money in that. We win. Yeah. Right. So from a money point of view, one thing that's really clear. When we set up, we did around 1.5 million year one as a business. Year two, we'd done three, just over three million. Year four, it was four and a half million. Year five, it was 10 million. And now it's 15 to 20 million plus. That's net fee income, not turn off. Yeah. So we've really grown heavy. Yeah. Yeah. But what I'm saying is even though the model was a bit deluded in terms of doing a bit of everything, a lot of people were getting such high volumes of work in 2020, 2021, 22, that they were just hiring and they were growing and they were taking advantage of it. So would you say you fell into that trap then? Because it was a good market. Yeah. It was exactly quite aggressively at the end of 22 early, 23. Yeah. It was a great market. Do you know it? So good point. And no one's really ever said that to me because I always just look to this, like I was a bit of a failing. But it was very true. Roles were coming in. We were making money. We built a contract based up massively with one of the biggest service providers in the UK. And we had a platform where we could really scale. And I always wanted to create a platform for people to come in. And then that platform works in several different ways. And what I was thinking was it doesn't really matter because if we've got the platform, we've got the people, then as long as we all work, it will work. The issue was, and it probably was when the market got a bit tight in 23, 24 time, probably 23, Rolls-Stide to come back. Those people that I did have, unfortunately, wasn't able to do the business development side. And that's when it really towered off. And yeah, we really went back to basics. So tell me what conversations did you and Karl have at that point? So the job flows, revenues dropping, and people aren't able to open new business. Yeah. I mean, lots of conversations. I mean, I was probably saying to Karl, like every other week, like, yeah, I think we should shut this down. I don't think we should do this anymore. I think I should go and work for a big exact search firm because I just cannot believe that we can't hire anyone that just can't do business development. Were you training? Well, training. Good question. I was training, honestly. No, probably not. But it depends. I think we were recruiting people that, like I say, were starting out on about a 60,000 base. So we was always, our bar was higher from the start. So in terms of the training, we felt that, you know, and that's good money, right? And recruitment, because obviously commissions and stuff like that. It's a good money for a free 60 recruiter. So we felt that they would come with experience, with clients, with opportunity. And we felt that if we build from the top down, we would scale something. Now lots of people said we should do it from the bottom. So higher people have an L&D person and train them. That definitely is 100% like anyone listening to it. I think that is the way forward for sure. But you've got to be on that journey with them. You've got to be able to back that up and support that and sit next to somebody and actually be in an office because if you're not in an office with these people that don't know how to recruit, very hard for them to learn from people. And as we all know, Sean and me included, I'm not an onsite guy, really, because I'm with my customers most of the time or a very external. I'm ever - You're a pretty interesting leader, like you're out with clients or-- - Yeah, yeah, and-- - We used to bring in a lot of that business in then. When you got to that 18, 20 people, was a lot of that client work coming from you. - Everything was made. - Yeah, so that's the reality, isn't it? Basically built a team of fucking 20 resources around you. You're bringing all the client work in, and if you take a day off or have a break or some of it goes wrong, it all slows down. - Yeah, yeah, it's the typical client of-- - Well, you know, the business that we're in, unfortunately, every relationship and every client all came from me. - So what was the tipping point that you made you cut the business back? - The tipping point was, I think, I had spoke to every single wreck to wreck. I had every single L&D person work with me to try and develop a strategy. We probably hemorrhaged in excess of a quarter of a million pounds, possibly more, I'll try not to think about it. And it was just like, no, like, enough is enough. And we actually completely deleted and rebuilt. And it was gonna be, it's gonna build on a platform that I know, I trust, I can do. I don't need loads of help along the way, because I know how to do it. And I can recruit a different type of person. - So when was this? - When was this? - 23, around 23. - Yeah, I've already talked about this. - I've already talked about this in 2023, and just cut the fucking thing apart as well. So I think like we went through a very similar situation. - Yeah, very, very similar. - Yeah, I've actually brought it down to 15 people in 12 months. And that was like basically deciding that a business we'd built wasn't what I wanted to run. Like I wasn't excited by it. And now there was my business, we need to fucking change it. So we did. But what did you see? Just so people can see, you're walking in, you're in an office in one, you've got all these people, you're the bread winner of all the actual work. They're all filling jobs, basically just feeding off you. They're all doing different things in different ways. And it's a bit chaotic. And then once the market turns and you lose in money, you're like, right, I'm gonna rebuild something that I know I can essentially, I don't need any of these people. Is that the mindset? - Yeah, it was, yeah. So I'm quite shrewd. So yeah, it was. I just actually wanted to go in and just strip it out. Like I wanted to burn the office down, not with anyone in it, but I just wanted to burn the thing down. We weren't going to let me get out. I was wanting to get out. But what did we do? - Yeah. What did we do? We had the office, I think, for a couple of months, it was just like, like, handful of us, look at each other. But what I've done was that side was, I just had a mission, I sat out a roadmap. I'm not a document heavy person. It was like, look, just go and do it. You know, kind of get shit done. It's the analogy I use. - What's the mission? - And yeah, and I was flying. Well, I was almost flying. I always use this analogy, but I always fly planes without wings and just hope they land. And fortunately, they have all landed, very successfully, actually. - What was the mission you said I want to do at that point? - So the mission was, so we were sat on a very, very large RPO that we stumbled across. And it was based on our work that we did as external partners, placing out an AI infrastructure and hardware software team. It was quite generic. They were based in the US and we were doing loads in San Francisco, parallel toe, New York. It was everywhere, right? And I had a girl on it and she'd done phenomenal, like, what, one million plus each year on it. Now, what happened was is that because we kind of stumbled upon it back then, we learned a lot through the journey of the things that we could have done so much better. And we also realized that contractually that there was lots of things that we should have done better. (laughing) So we, to protect ourselves. So we kind of realized that early on and we thought, right, let's go away and let's replicate a model that is solely focused on Nvidia because we know Nvidia inside out. The guys at Nvidia hopefully trust me. And we partner very closely within the Nvidia ecosystem and we go after anybody that is rolling out GPU infrastructure. So a very niche part of Nvidia, but the most talked about part on Wall Street right now, which is data centers and AI infrastructure. Most people use them very lightly and don't really understand it. If you thought right, with someone that knows it from 2015, someone that's inside the Nvidia ecosystem, someone that can actually execute, not just finding people for these organizations, but actually taking a step back and having external lens as a bit of an advisor and say, well, actually, have you thought about this data sense or have you spoke to this partner? Have you, are you aware of the supply chain kind of constraints right now of, you know, yeah, you want to deploy it, but how are you going to buy it? Because there's long lead times. So it was having that whole lens and no one was doing it literally nobody. And there's like one or two other people to do it right now and they're like really big consultancies that just, you know, they're on another level to what we're doing, you know, and I'm happy for them. And that was the time really, you know, it was a great question. Do you know what, I love this podcast because it's just me thinking like off the cuff, like there's no script or nothing like that. So it's making me think. But you're starting out, you're right. You spotted a genuine gap. Did you make the redundancies first, then sit down and plan it or did you do it? I was planning. I mean, I'm just a thinker. I overthink everything. So I'm just thinking all the time. I'm always thinking like, what's next year going to look like? What's the year after? And that's just my head is like a propeller in a side. But yeah, car was definitely aligned. It took a lot for me to consistently speak to him about what we're building, why we should build it. Remember, he's used to big companies, you know, 100 person plus and flipping it. Yeah, he just buys sales, buys sales, you know, that's what he does. This was the long game. And we were betting against this actually takes off. Now, kind of AI infrastructure, really, if you look at like the Neo clouds in general, they didn't really take off until sort of 2024, realistically. So it hasn't been too long. It's only like two years in the making. So this is a very, very new world. And again, the reason why I talked about so heavily and you know, they reckon it's going to be, you know, the next decade's going to be trillions and trillions. There you go. 17, I think, I read 17 trillions of the day AI infrastructure in the next 10 years, which is, which is really interesting because us personally, we are actually working on a hundred billion dollar worth of GPU build right now. What do you mean that is what? What does that mean? GPUs, so yeah. So just Nvidia deploying GPUs into these data centers. So 100 billion GPU infrastructure deploying right now in Europe. The GPU is like the product that you buy from Nvidia. Right. Yeah. So you identify that there was a real issue with talent in this ecosystem, specifically the Nvidia ecosystem. You know, there's no one advising people and you know, finding top talent, et cetera. So what was, what did you, what was the next step? So you know, you've had to get rid of, did you actually make all the redundancies and drill it right down to you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we just stripped it out. I mean, no, no one was billing. No one was profitable. So and everyone was with us for less than two years. Did you get a lot of work still coming in that you had to turn away that was outside of this? Yeah, yeah, there was. There were not loads, I mean, I would say we probably turned away by 20, 30 opportunities, like in terms of jobs, it wasn't loads. What did your day to day look like when you were like, right, I'm going to go and build this? Well, it was literally completely built from scratch. You know, changed the website, changed the marketing decks, completely re-build a business. I actually deleted my whole entire database and switched and bought something completely fresh. It was like literally re-build the business. But what was the initial sell then? If so, if I'm an Nvidia partner or what were you saying you could do? Everything. Was it up or down? Yeah, so no, no, two solutions. So we led in with statement of work. because that was that advisory lens, securing a long-term project, and also securing a project that had deliverables. So the client felt at ease that what we say is what they get on the tin, for example. So that was the first part. So it was to go out to, and remember, we weren't new to this space. So we were already tried and tested. The issue we had is that we weren't knocking on those doors. We were knocking on like every other door that we didn't know. It was like that classic sort of scenario. So yeah, we actually just started to knock on the doors that I already knew. And do you know why every door to be quite honest, that I knocked on, opened up, and it was like, yeah, you've caught us at a great time because we're just about to secure funding, or we have secured funding, and we want to scout. And what you knew. This market was hot. There was money coming in. Yeah, you knew it. I knew it. You didn't have any delivery power at this stage. So who was the, surely you had like a statement or work like lead a next to you that was an actual industry practitioner that you could, yes, or could stop project. You're not going to do that bit, right? So yeah, do you have a big one on permanently? Yeah, so we have a guy that works with us as a kind of exec within Monzit. And he's role was to do exactly what you said is to basically go out. He comes from a, you know, he was the CTO, UBS, CTO of Elseg, and he would help us out on doing that. Then I have, I had another guy that I knew that again that we worked together really closely. He was on the Infinity Band architecture side that we tagged up with. And then I had a platform guy that understood how the platform, how you can actually build the platform to actually. Platform, do you, what do you mean? Like actual platform? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. So the software layer of the Nvidia kit because obviously you have the data centers. And then within the data centers, you'll have, for example, loads of different GPUs within that data centers that they're doing. But then obviously once that's in there, then obviously to actually run it. So for me and you, to actually work on it, for example, their, their incline has to have a platform. And obviously the platform has to be a certain grade to get some customers and stuff like that, right? So you've said, yeah, and I don't fully understand it. And I don't, I don't think I need to. But I know, you've built a team around you that cover the basis of what? Who are the, who is the actual client? What are they? Are they, are they just, are the AI companies or who are you selling this to at this date? Yeah, yeah. So they're in video partners. So they're, they're called NeoCloud provide. Is the actual term. So many is that. Well, you've got, you've got quite a lot now. They're just popping up all over the place because VCs and asset managers are just, you know, pumping billions into this sector. So you've got a lot, but you've got the, you know, the obvious ones, like the, the partners like CoreWave, Annebias, EndScale, FluidStack. For most people, I don't know if these companies are, I don't know these companies are. Cruzo. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's your in this space, you know, yeah. It's a close, yeah, you, yeah. How many companies do you think there were in 2023 when you were like, I'm going to go and knock this store down? How big am I? Oh, there, there wasn't many. It was tiny because most of these have only just started to kind of wake up in kind of 2024 because you've got to remember most of these companies came from like crypto mining backgrounds and Bitcoin. Right. So they were mining the GPUs, right? So they had all of this stuff sit in there, but no one actually doing anything with it because obviously that, that dried up for a lot of companies. So yeah, if you look at kind of like a lot of these companies, yeah, they're young, they're like less than two years old. So it was, it was new, it was fresh. So what was the, what was like the specifics or the benefits of going out specifically for a statement of work and then RP up? What was it? What was the, what attracted you to turning all the old school, traditional work down and focusing on this? If you're going to hire someone off shore, make sure you pick the right partner. Today's sponsor remote recruitment are my partner of choice and the reason is they put every single South African hire through a 15 point vetting system. They run a bespoke trial, built with you. So you see what they're like before they even enter your business. They do the final interview after proof of performance and there's a free 12 month replacement if they're not right. So there's no like seeing random CVs and loads of interviews. It's just a really seamless process that is stringent, it's organized and it works. And if they don't work out, look, they'll replace it really, really quick. So you don't need to worry about nation insurance and I setting up companies, they manage the whole piece without you worrying. Now if you're a rag listener, you get 5% off your first hire, you get a free remote hire and roadmap and they've got an ROI calculator that you can look at back office and business development roles and see the impact they can have on your business. If you'd like to access this amazing offer, filter www.remote recruitment, according to K forward slash rack, I think what it was is that we had to go off of what I knew and what I knew was just Nvidia technology. So the attraction was at that time because like I said to you, when you've got an you know, an army of people but no one's kind of like billing, that's a big issue. And what we never had was anyone that actually knew a market inside out, now outside of me. So it was you know like what Carl said, we're playing place your strengths, you know, and if your market is the Nvidia ecosystem, then you go and do it, you go and build it, you know, and that's how we will create a great business. That has to be founderled because if you're not at the forefront of this and you're not singing every day in the shower and running to work type of thing, we will never grow because how can you expect someone who doesn't kind of get it to know it if they're not around you. So yeah, and it was a tight market like I say in 2023, 2024, there was probably no more than 200 companies, but 200 companies were just me. It's a lot. Yeah. You can assign big statements. You're not doing like spot business. So what was the first, what's the size and scale of the first project you want? First project we won was a really fast quick build with one of the Neo clouds and that was to work very closely with the leadership team in the US to deploy many GB 300s at the time across Europe. So it was cut in edge tech. It was like almost like, you know, iPhones, they've just been launched in September. We need every single talent partner by December to have them in their hands operationally. So it was fast, yeah. Did you personally staff that? Like you with a recruiter on that? Yeah. Yeah. So what we done was our model was that we had a number of embedded TAs working with that business really closely. So for example, when the data center team they needed project managers, data center technician solution architects within that team, we deployed them rapidly. When they then needed to like on the platform side, we deployed them rapidly. When it was on the security side of it, we deployed them rapidly. So it was just an elevator of people. But I'm honestly, I'm talking so fast. That's crazy. Well, instead of going to work, I might be wrong, but you're not waiting for for them to interview everyone out? - No, no, no. - You're not in that responsibility. You're thinking, if we think they're right, they're getting put on site, so you. - Oh yeah, completely. They go through our assessment. So there wasn't just you doing that assessment, there was a, you built a team. - No, no, yeah, it was team at TMAs. Not many like, you could count them less than on one hand. You don't need loads, because it was niche people. It was people we already knew, LinkedIn's such an amazing tool now, right? You know, so quick, you could use it. AI was around then, you know, chat GBT with life changing, automation was life changing at that point. So yeah, it just gets really fast. - It's not a project. - That one across two years was probably about two million. So it's a completely different scale of customers, isn't it? If you're going in. - Yeah, that wasn't massive either. Like that, you know, some people listen for everything. Well, that's not a lot, but you gotta remember, where a small niche player? - I think that is, I mean, a million a year for one client. That is a big project. - Yeah. - A big, now there's obviously a little bit more risk that goes into it than just putting bombs on seats. - Yeah. I mean, as a, you were up. 30, less than 30 years old at this point or 30 years old at this point. Like, what, how did you get the confidence and the knowledge to go and do this without a track record of rolling out statement of work? Because it's not like Carl was that guy? I had a car was true. No, I shouldn't, do you know why it's really interesting? And it's a great point. I think, look, age is just a number, right? I think when people, when you enter a room and, like, I'm trying to grab a beard right now, normally I'm clean and shaving another look like, I look like Timber. I'm trying to give a beard a go. Like it's kind of trendy. Let's see how it goes. But anyway, when you're kind of clean shaving, you look 10 and you rock up and they're like, yeah, who are you? And you tell them about kind of the journey that you've been on. And I'm super open and transparent about my strengths and weaknesses. They seem to be very, very interested, you know, because it's not like blah, blah, blah. It's almost like, look, I've been there. I've done it for the T-shirt, but I'm super young because you're right. I was like 25, 26 working with like a multi billion dollar tech company that everyone talks about right now. And the only reason why AI is actually working is because of them. So at the time, I was probably on paper, 35, 40, because I was with like exx, earning millions of dollars and they were speaking to me every day. They were advising me on what's going on. And it was just like, you know, two years, one mouth. And I didn't really speak very much to be honest because I used to take it all in. And that just become, but the beard really, really interesting. You didn't know, right? You'd never actually gone in and sold a project. You'd sold, you put bombs on seats in a strategic exx search. So did you need to go out and I imagine if it was me, I'd be like, I'd be picking the brains of everyone I could get my hands on to figure out what this is pre-AI as well, being like, you could probably put it into Claude now and pull out a plan of a statement. But then how did you come up with the right? Again, do you know what it was? It was like, you know, who we were touching shoulders with. You got to remember throughout my whole career, I've always been at like the top, top end, so program director, CTO, CIO, CIO. And when, for example, all those people knew that I was going on a journey, I was sitting up on my own, everyone backed me from day one. Like they were like, look, you are going to absolutely smash it. Whatever help you need or whatever you need, just let me know. And I recommend to everyone that if you need help, you just tell people, like, don't pretend that you can do it when you can't. Just actually say, look, I want to execute on this project. And I know there's risks to it, but I need your help. Can you help me? And you're, you're seeing like most of the senior people in this space are super nice. And if you're genuine, they will really help you. And if it wasn't for those mentors of mine, I wouldn't have done what I could have done because you're right. Me, I couldn't have done it without them. So let's go back a step to that then. Why do you think they backed you when you quit? Why were you, why were you someone that they were like, yeah, anytime you need help? What did you do at a foundational recruitment level that meant that you, you had that gravitas and that trust with them that they would give you that back? Yeah. I mean, if it wasn't just for the RSUs that they got, like $40, $50 that are now worth $2,000, that might have started to do with it. I got them into businesses very early. It's what it was then. So you, you were helping them for, for, for, I mean, them, I mean, when we were working within video, it was like, you know, $40, $50 a share. That's now $2,000 a share. Give or take. I don't know what he's going to do. No. It's waiting for the front line. Yeah, nobody needs to work. If I did, I would not be here. That's probably pretty like if you did, you did. So all right. So you, you in not only did you do a good job of recruitment wise, you introduced into organizations and buying shares that, yeah, and you know, you had a good eye for, for an opportunity then. Yeah. And you know what, they all, they all, they all, they all stayed, you know, best company in the world to work for. And, you know, it's kind of a company that you state, why would you leave, right? You know, and they all stayed. And even outside of that, because remember, we recruited across all of the, the data centers as well, like the actual operators itself, but it's quite a small space. That's, that's the thing. My space is very small. So you kind of get familiar with the same faces, same people. And what I did do, which kind of worked really, really well, is I presented it like the AI world, the cloud exposed the data center world. And I was up there as sort of like a four leader, right? Talking about where this face could go, what was happening? And what I got taught early on was like, you know, a sponge, put it in the bath and be one of those. And it's like, well, what do you mean? Like super young, super naive is like, well, just soak up all of the information. And that's it. And that's what I do. I do it really, really well. I'll soak up all the information. And then I'll make sure I execute again, sort of those things. And you don't need to kind of know everything, right? No, you need, I mean, my whole career has been built on listening to people say things and being able to regurgitate it on the next call as mine. In recruitment, I was able to listen to a project and then get on a call and talk about what I heard on the last call and make it sound like I understood it. And the more you do that, the more you do understand it. But you're always, you've just got to be one step ahead of the market that the people you go to, right? And so let's get back to where we are now. So it's 23, 2024. You've let go of your whole team. You've won that first big project with two million a year, two million over two years. You've got more team. You can count on one hand delivering on this. How have you took it to the next level? So there's like 17 people now in the business. Yeah. Running, you know, you're running multi million pound contract retained deals, statement of work. You've got RPO. You could be the bottleneck. If you're too embedded in one project to doing it, tell them, I'm just finishing. Did you realise that was that something you maybe like, did you get that wrong at any point? No, I mean, you know what we didn't actually. So the first project we've done was just absolutely amazing. And it just went to plan. We got a great case study. We, you know, continue to work with that partner, you know, still today. And it was just amazing. And that was the case study that we needed. That carried so much weight. And then what happened was is from that straight away, two other things landed very quickly. And then it went to three, four, five. And it, and it just kind of like, continue to really build. And because of the space went from like zero to 100, literally from like, you know, 20, 24 to where we are now, it really went in our favour. Okay. And it just scaled, you know, and look, I'm not going to sit here and say to anyone that, oh yeah, no, it's only because I know. Right time, right place. Yeah, you were, you're incredibly, incredibly. fortunate in the fact that you took that time. You mean you made the decision, but you did it the right time. So how much have you been able to focus on new business acquisition, networking and not being sucked into delivery of projects you've sold? Yeah. So it's been an interesting one because when we, when we, when we go in like I act as the client services director. So I'll oversee the project from start to finish and kind of call it cradle to grave in the data center. Well, and the thing is is that we don't again, our business model now isn't to have like 10, 20, 30 clients. That's not what we want. We're super needs, super focus. Do a great job become ultra sticky and partner with these companies. And we don't just partner with these companies. There's some companies out there partners that we work with where we are like we get equity within their organization. That is how much they value us like from the, from the inception to really trying to go to an IPO of level really IPO. They want us as that long term partnership and we are part of their team, you know, like it's not one's hits on site. You know, we are wearing their t-shirt, their badge and you know, be in them. And I think that's what they like. I think, you know, they, they don't really like that external and so much because you can't, you can't trust that as much, right? But when you're embedded and you're there and you're, with the culture, it's really interested. And like I say, the reality is today, I don't know precise numbers, but there's probably only between, I don't know, two 200, 250 neo-cloud operators globally right now, maybe it's more because they're popping up, but I wouldn't say it's massively saturated because 23, it was like early stage of it, 24, it started to kind of like pick up a bit and now they're moving, you know, now they're really starting and obviously if you've seen like a couple of the big ones already on the stock market. So yeah. - So how many projects can you guys handle if you are the client service director across the board? - Me personally, just one. - So you're only ever on one project at a time? - Yeah, me personally, yeah. So if I'm, - So have you now got someone to replace you as that? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we all have like client services director, you'll have me doing one dedicated for that duration. Of course, you know, I'm not a cheap resource, so you know, it's got to work for the client, you know, for them to really want me involved personally. But yeah, if they want that, then yeah, totally. Just one strict NDA, strict work, and we've just sold it out business and just scaling that business. But let us say you're talking like tens of millions of dollars like going into this, it's not like small amounts of investment. So one client you get at the beginning, you've got other founders at the front, right? So yeah. - What have you got around you that means, if you're dedicated to that one project, your business doesn't stop at, I mean, you might say, what I'm okay with it stop isn't because it's worth X amount of a million. But what have you built around you that means you're not the bottleneck to growth? - Yeah, so great question. And we have an amazing kind of platform now where we wouldn't want to take on probably no more than 10 projects at a time. That's kind of the sweet spot. And with the tech team that we have now in place, we are program director can oversee and do an amazing job on those and build our teams within those. So in terms of the answer to question 10 is the magic number, you wouldn't want no more than 10. Where my role is so kind of like, I am almost like the property of that individual because my role is so, you know, I'm in the grave right from them getting funding, like who the funding partner's gonna be, how much we're gonna get, where we're gonna IPO like, you, it wouldn't make sense for me to be across lots of different clients. But yeah, from a business point of view, tensed the sweet spot, we are making some good, good hires. We've got a really good join us starting, you know, she comes from an out and out statement of work background for 10 plus years. She joins me in the next couple of weeks. She's gonna be managing one of our biggest service providers. So again, she'll be another me, for example, but in that world. And yeah, you know, the team we've got now is, there hasn't, there's no failing points now. Is that hard for that? - Is that the hardest thing though? It's gonna be to find you again, like to get a good enough person that sits at the top of these RPOs or sits at the top of the East Aimanow work project. That must be the challenge. - Well, if you find another me, I might get redundant. - There is another me. (laughing) - For you personally, obviously. - Even to get to Penn, you're gonna need an infrastructure of people around you, you need an infrastructure. - Yeah. - Yeah, no completely, completely. And yeah, we're always looking, if anyone knows AIM for structure and they're at that sort of level, we're always trying to talk to those people. We do have a dedicated partner that works with us on a day-to-day basis. We've actually bought a in-house recruiter from them that is now looking at talent. - For you? - Yeah. Full time. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So what does a week look like for you? What does a blane week? What are you up to Monday to Friday? How'd you break it down? - So up at 5am, Jim, literally by the time it opens, at 6am, quick cross-fit workout, saunas every day, 20 minutes without fail. Then Eva on-site with a client or on site in one of our offices. And then I would say from 8am till 9, 10 o'clock at night, back to back calls. - Wow. - And what about-- - And it's not even five days now. Currently I'm working a seven-day week. - You're working the weekend? - Yeah, Saturday, Sunday is normal. - What about your kids? - Yeah. She's very forgiving. - Your wife is? - Yeah. - How many did you go? - Two kids. - And I'll go. - Or in a girl. Four and 10, be 11 in July. - Wow. - But you're missing that, right? - So you're-- - I'm missing it. - I'm missing it. - I'm missing it. Issue is this market is moving so fast, and there's so much money to be poured into it. If I'm not working seven days, I'm not doing my job properly. - Yeah, but what you're going to think when you're 70 years old, you've got a lot of fun. - No, no, why don't we do it? - You're going to be like, "I'm glad I made all that money." Or are you going to think, "I've missed that 10-year-olds football team?" - No, do you know what? The good thing is, like, where the world works now, and you probably see like on my socials and stuff like that, and we pop out like football games, like, look, I can be there, right? You know, when-- - You're waiting the time for the thing. You can adjust your calendar to be at the thing you're going to be. - Yeah, yeah, when you say, like, work in seven days, look, if it's at a football match, and I'm watching the game, responding to emails, jumping online, if I need to, speaking to clients, I'm doing that. Look, I truly believe that you can make tens of millions of pounds in this market right now, if you really want to work hard and work smart. Now, the smart part is that, why would I only work five days when I'm just missing two days, like, every day of the week, just to kind of just sit there and, you know, do family time, right? I want to make as much money as possible, so, then, in five years' time, when I'm 40, I don't have to do it anymore, because I've made tens of millions of pounds. I'm ready to work. So, between 40 and hopefully 200, because that's why I should live called into AI, and my whoop, I am literally with my kids all designed. And the name of the kids, they won't be kids then. They won't be kids, but they're never gonna produce more kids. You can't get that back. I'm telling you now, I don't disagree that you've got to run your shit your own way. I'm not here to judge you, right? But I'm the opposite of you. I'm absolutely, because I think your kids are going to be 10, up until the age of 10, you're the fucking hero. Like, you are everything. You know, I've got a daughter who's two and a half. I've got a 12-year-old step daughter, and I've got a 11-year-old step son. And the difference in my 12-year-old now, compared to a year ago, it's night and day. If you get a shit about her mate's opinion, not my wife's opinion, anyway. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I walk in the house, and I thought it was like, daddy, every time I'm there, and I'm like, you're never getting that back. You can have a lot of money in the world, with you, by that. So, but I'm not here to make you feel uncomfortable about it. But I just, I don't know, it worries me a little bit. That kind of mindset, because money can't buy you what you've already got. It can't buy. Yes. You can make tens of millions, you can't buy it. Yeah, yeah. Well, you take, no, no. And that's not what I'm going into. No, no, no, no. If you know what, look, it's a great point. I think just where I am at the moment, and the stage I'm at, what the clients are so demanding, and there's just so much going on. There is no room for failure. And the thing is, I just have to have a plan to execute. Give us an example. Like the pressure that you're under then, and what the problems kind of rise on these projects, because up until now, I'll be really honest with you playing. It sounds fucking amazing. You've hit the crack the market, you sign in multi-million-pound project. Your team's quite lean. It's going to be incredibly profitable. But since in the last five minutes, you've opened up a bit. You're working seven fucking days. You just pressure on you. Even you see the absolute goal mind that you can hit. What's it really like? Like, back to back to the nightclub. What problems do you face it? Well, I mean, burnout. That's one, you know, that's probably the number one thing. You burn yourself out. You get tired, you get anxious. You get raris, especially for me. I'm an overthinker. So yeah, you do have burnout. I think as well with kind of the way I'm wired, it's just all or nothing. I can't stop. I'm just consistently. If it's not doing laps in 2015 around the block in the city, having four coffees a day, I don't really drink, but if it's not doing that, it's kind of like just doing stuff that just wouldn't normally be human possible, right? Which is like fitting in so many means in a day. So that's just me in general. Like, I'm just always busy. But yeah, but-- What are the problems you're facing? So is it projects that we off track? Like people aren't delivering against time. I was like, what are you? you dealing with that keeps you so occupied every day? - Yeah, I mean, it's just a change in the market. So for example, like you might be doing a cluster one minute in Belgium, then Sweden, then San Francisco, then France, then the UK. So it's the change of the ecosystem, changing all the time. What's that caused by? Certain things that are just out of your control, power constraints, good constraints, supply chain issues, not being able to get certain products on site on time. So things move. So operational bottlenecks, for example. So obviously something. - Just like the statement of work, stuff though, surely the kind of technology leader should be thinking about solving those problems and usually you would like, yeah, you would like to think so, but that isn't always the case. You do get involved and my job is to de-risk that. And yeah, you could have, for example, teams in certain places and then teams have to move to other places, for example, because you don't just want people on a bench, right? 'Cause otherwise you, you know, it's costing you a lot of money. You don't want that. So yeah, there's that issue. And then do you know what? The biggest thing that keeps me up at night to be quite honest is the talent behind all of these projects. That is the biggest thing that keeps me up. Because we're working such a niche market. If you imagine there's only say, look, just say 200 platforms, for example, just give or take. And out of that 200 platforms, say like, Devoney got like, you know, 100 people, 200 people, 300 people globally. There isn't a huge talent pool of people that can actually do it. And that is the biggest issue. So it's almost like trying to get to the people far quicker than everybody else that's trying to get to them. So the demand is insane. So the number one thing that kind of keeps me up at night is talent. And I thought that would change. So it's a real pain in the ass, because I thought that was just trying to find recruiters. But now it's not. It's in another market. So that's the biggest thing. And also the other thing is, is look, you know, you're dealing with people. Me and you today are perfectly normal and fine. And we're on this podcast and we absolutely love it. But tomorrow, for example, I just might not like podcasts anymore. And I don't want to do them anymore. And that's what happens. You know, yeah, do you really want to do this project? Yeah, everyone does project. I've done it 10 years. Oh, do you know what, Blaine? I'm so sorry, but that's nice. Mom, that's my wife said, coffee shop. I'm going to buy a coffee shop. What? That is talented. What kind of numbers are we? You say, do you say 20 to 25 million this year? And is potentially, I mean, being, being massively like, big on the number this year. But yeah, it's going to be a big year. We're, we're, we're, we really, really are kind of at a stage now where AI is scaling so fast that the demand, like it's not like what you said, 17 trillion, if that's the figure today, but it's not. But us personally, 100 billion AI infrastructure build out over a three year period of time. I would be very disappointed if we wasn't doing 20 million of that. Got you. And what? This might be a difficult question to answer, right? But you mentioned before about when you get to 40, you'll take time off the Navi, where your family and stuff like, what's the number? Like what are you trying to hit? Because, you know, you do 20 million in a year. I reckon you, you're going to bank quite a bit of profit. I might be wrong, but the team's quite lean. I'm what profit margins will be talking. And you probably, you probably would be a lot lower than you think, actually. I wouldn't, I wouldn't know precisely of the number, but there's a lot of overhead and costs to that. Are you talking like seven figures plus in net profit? Yeah, it should, it should be, yeah, I mean, you should, you should walk away with a fair amount, but, but I wouldn't say life change in because, you know, it's not just my business. Yeah. It's other partners. Yeah. So what's the number that, have you got a number in your head that you're trying to get to that suggests that you're done? And you, you're operating from a position of freedom, not fear. 100 billion. That's not done. So, seriously, like, you're going to get to what's the number that is? It's a blin. Do you know, do you know what? No, my, my, my mind shawl, honestly, it just doesn't work like that. It's so chaotic. It, I'm, I'm not one of those guys that, like, let's get five million in the bank and let's stop. I really don't think that I'll stop. I just think, no, in me, I'll just continue. So then, you've got to forgive him. Why if on the premise that five years time, you're going to take some time out? Is that true? I mean, I hope I'm not setting you wife by. Seriously, like, this is a serious boundary. I have a lot of the time. You know, when they get to this, I'll be, yeah, then it'll be, but when are you working? You've been doing seven days a week when you've got 50 million in the bank. Like what? What's the reality? I think it's tough. I mean, I mean, Carl, like I say, he, he done very well very early. And he still works. That said, he makes a lot of time for his own personal health now with, you know, he does try our flons and I am man's, he does loads of Iron Man's. I think he does like, you know, late 50s and he's doing like two free Iron Man's a year, like a guy's a machine. So he has time to do that. So that's his hobby, like, but obviously that takes a lot of time up. I think where we are at a moment, I don't look at this as work, like I absolutely love it. And just every day is just so different and it's evolving so quickly. I think at 35 years of age to say what the number is before you kind of like give it up completely and just like take a back seat. I'm not too sure, but I think probably money, money's one thing, right? But it's not everything, like for me, it's not everything. I think as long as like I remain healthy and healthy as well. And I stick by that. And I'm still able to go to the gym and my children are, you know, super healthy, super happy. All my family are, I'm happy with that. I just want to provide just a platform that works for everybody. And the thing is like within my household, you know, I'm that figurehead, you know, and also I'm the, you know, the breadwinner, as you would say. So, you know, full flexibility and, you know, my wife just literally lives and breathes around my children, you know, and since setting one to the she hasn't had any issues around like her being able to work or, you know, we've had like that financial kind of dependency. You've got that relationship where you have core roles each, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sort of, I mean, you know, but it's sort of like it's a good thing. But I think I don't know. I just thought I'd come too young to really say like, yeah, I'm going to, you know, 40 or 45 or 50 retire. I think as, you know, I think you don't have to be retirement, does it? Like I'm knowing. Yeah. I started off sort of 30. I'm turning 40 this year. My business part is 40 today. And we were 30 when we set it up and I've got zero interest in retiring. Like, and I don't. Yeah. I can't imagine a world by ever will, but I do have an interest in not working eight hour days. I'd rather do four hours. Yeah. I'd rather wake up and go to the gym and take the dog for a walk and have lunch with my wife and then do a few hours in the afternoon or vice-first and morning. Like, I've got this world where I get more time to watch live sport. I get more time to do things with people. Yeah. Isn't fucking chain to the desk. But I know I've got a number. I've got an exact number that I need to be able to generate a level of income that is what I'm used to now without. I've got a lot of assets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the bit that the clarity I've got. And actually, it's enough. The lifestyle I have now for me is enough. So there's zero interest in a fucking private jet or business. Yeah, yeah. More of the world. Yeah, yeah. How to work less and have the same lifestyle now be around people. Like, that's how I see. Yeah. I get the feeling you're going to strive for a lot more than me. You're going to have a bigger goal. You're going to have a bigger plans. And there's nothing wrong with that. I just like to understand. Yeah, I think, do you know why? It's a good question. I've never really thought about it because you know, you just caught up in a moment. You didn't know this is not a podcast. This is a counseling session, right? Yeah. No one's listening to this. Yeah, just me. Yeah. No, do you know what? I've never really thought about it like it just feels just so young and it just feels like my baby at the moment. And I just don't want to let go. Just make sure that you don't lose the family on the way. I'm not going to, I don't know nothing about your family. I told you no, I know, I know no founders that have gone healthful ever five, six, seven days a week for 10 years, thinking they're building it for the family. And then at the end when they fucking sell it, the family have moved on. The wife they split up and their kids are, they're not even living with their own kids. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, I don't know anything about that. No, no, no, I get that. I mean, we're joined at a hit. We're like rocks, but you know, let's see in 10 years. Maybe you'll write me, everyone's fucked off. And I'll just be here trying to build out AI infrastructure and Jenkins probably retired. You're having AI, why? I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm going to build one. So I'm going to try and do it now on, on, on, Claude. I actually watched a program, right? Um, on Channel 4, and I forgot the guy, but if you, if anyone listening, it's definitely what it worth watching, right? But it was on Channel 4, it was last week. Um, I presented when out, um, to all of the different AI startups around the US, right? And basically, one of them was exactly that. This lady had an AI wedding, but she was still married. And this guy basically comes up and she's like, hi, darling, how are you? And he's like, you're looking really fine today. Yeah. And they're having interactions. They had an AI wedding. It's a subscription based service and tons of people are doing it. And he said to her, but how does your husband feel? Like, and he said, basically, she said, well, he doesn't care because we never had that chemistry. So now I have the chemistry with the AI. And it's actually making us so much better. And then he moved on from that to another thing where he went into a factory where robots were doing like coffee making, picking clothes up, folding them. And it was all these people in San Fran, where they were like young founders and they were like teaching a robot how to eat, how to pack stuff. Honestly, if you want to like see kind of like what it's like, it's honestly, it's scary like on some of these things. Obviously, I'm so caught up in this part. It's scary. Yeah, it's scary. And we could do a whole podcast on what else is happening with AI that we do and don't like. And it's nuts. My final question, Blaine, look, it's been a very interesting episode. I knew it would be like, you're building something impressive. You've got, you know, you've got a seriously cash generating fast growing business in possibly the hottest market in the world. Where do you think this could go? Like, where do you, if I brought you back on in a few years time, like what are you hoping we'll be saying? Well, I'm hoping that at least 10% of the AI infrastructure that's built is done by us at least in Europe, in your not the world. What would that mean? Well, that would mean would be massive just recognition and it's just paid off. You know, for me, you know, if you could just get 10% of just in Europe, AI infrastructure build would just be amazing, right? You know, what an achievement. Something just a retire off of, you know, when you just think about it, it would just be amazing. Wow. Well, look, if anyone's listened to the show and wants to put your brains on, you know, what you've done, how you've done it, statement of work, RPO, we've not really gone into the detail of these things, but you've given enough of a flavor that you're running a business this way, because you're not doing any traditional like recruitment anymore, right? It's pure. Two- Stavesman at works. Your contract. So long term. Yeah, it's not, you're not doing any spot business, one of fees. So if anyone's listening to that and wants to put your brains, are you okay if they reach out to your LinkedIn? Yeah, 100%. I'd love to talk to him. And mate, I'm excited to get you back on in the future. I want to see what happens next. I think, yeah, we met six years ago, a summer and you were energized, you were, you were going to build something, you've kind of gone up, you've gone back and now you've got a unique model in a unique way, you've got massive goals. I wish you the best of luck. Yeah, no, again, thanks for having me. Pleasure. Thanks again for listening to today's episode of the REC podcast. If you haven't already, please do subscribe wherever you listen to this show. As the more subscribers we get, the more people will listen and the more recruitment on as we can help. As a recruitment founder, you must know that things are changing. AI is everywhere. Cold outreach is getting harder and job boards will learn what they used to be. But personally, despite the negativity, I believe the future is the greatest opportunity of our lifetime in recruitment, because for the first time ever, a founder with five recruiters with a clear niche and the right systems can build the kind of influence, reach and profitability that used to take 500 recruiters and a global office network. The agencies that are winning right now aren't necessarily the biggest, but they are the most visible, the most trusted, and the ones building inbound demand. A hoxo, we're working with clients who are running multiple six and seven figures in net profit outperforming the negative noise and headlines. So to explain what these guys are doing, I've created a brand new free masterclass video for rag listeners. In this video, it's less than 10 minutes long, I'm going to show you what these businesses are doing differently from the rest. So the link's in the description. Fill in the form, watch the video and see exactly how this system that these clients are using could work for your agency. Good luck.