Season 5, Episode 3: Longevity and Eternal Health - The Ultimate Luxury with Clinique La Prairie

The majority of the people that are coming out in the library, they decide that it's time to invest in their health and the longevity. I would say they know that the serious longevity takes time, is medical science and need, of course, investment. So in terms of do you really personalize, I think that we can really say that we go to the DNA of our clients. But here we are really talking about the DNA, the real DNA. We are very proud when clients is coming here, is coming to us and say, you know, the first thing that I notice is that every people that I talk with as something inside and is transferring this humanity, empathy and care. And this I think is what we should all focus on. It's about having a purpose. Welcome to Luxury on Air, where we explore the trends, innovations and personalities defining and redefining the luxury industry. Who has never dreamt about being immortal and living eternally? Or at least live a long life in perfect health? Luxury is more and more about me, taking care of yourself, respecting, feeding, resting and treating your body in the best way possible. And ideally in a superb environment. So today let's tackle longevity in our Luxury on Air podcast episode. The global longevity industry was valued at approximately 25 billion in 2020 by a light market research with a projected reach of 44 billion by 2030. This is a territory of huge potential this way and attracts numerous market players whether coming from health or even luxury space. The longevity industry can see substantial growth driven by demographic shifts, technological innovations and an increased focus on health and wellness. My name is Karin Segady and I'm thrilled to welcome Simone Gilbertoni, CEO of clinic La Prairie, the world renowned luxury medical wellness clinic located in Montreux, Switzerland. Founded in 1931 La Prairie combines advanced scientific medicine with holistic wellness and preventative health approaches. The clinic has built an international reputation for its focus on cell therapy and longevity treatments. Simone joined La Prairie in 2016 as CEO and is also the co-chairman of the longevity fund by clinic La Prairie and the founder of holistic health. When he's not working, he's passionate about writing and spending time with his family. Simone, thanks so much for joining us today. I know you're just rushing in from business meetings so it's really a pleasure and an honor to have you with us today. Thank you, it's my pleasure and thank you for having me. Let's just jump into the topic right away. You are playing in an absolutely fantastic industry, but of course our listeners are coming from various environments and I'm not sure that they're all completely familiar with the longevity industry and clinic La Prairie, so maybe you want to give us just a quick overview of the industry and the clinic itself. Sure, so clinic La Prairie has been started by a doctor, which was called Neans in 1931, so we are almost 100 years old and this doctor was a very interesting gentleman. He was he decided was asking himself how can I have LCP people living better, which is still today very few doctors are doing because we're always focused on the disease. In the 50, the clinics became very famous because of the Pope who came to the clinic and a lot of famous actor and we have been only one clinic in Montro until six years ago and six years ago we started this international development, maybe we're going to elaborate a little bit on this later. So creating what I like to call an ethical system for our clients, what we do in a longevity clinics today, you would call clinic La Prairie, longevity clinics, basically we have in our case weekly treatment, focus on helping our client to live a longer and better life. And we start with our clients, Johnny, which hopefully is going to bring them to live again better and longer. So interesting what you said in the beginning, we're more focused on treating diseases than doing preventative health. Of course this is now a tendency, people trying to live healthier longer and considering this, but it's still a cost. Who are the clients that are coming to us? Are they sent by a doctor? Do they want to care for themselves? Is it a self-defeated decision? Or is it more that more and more doctors would have preventative health initiatives and send people as well to clinic La Prairie? That's a very interesting question, but by the way, when I'm with people, I ask, do you believe that health is the most important thing that we have? And everybody's saying yes, but then you don't understand why we invest less than 5% in preventative medicine. We have, as you know, right, obesity, which is growing so fast everywhere. Majority of the spending that we have is focus again on disease in terms of healthcare. In fact, the majority of the people that are coming to La Prairie, they decide to come, they decide that it's time to invest in their health and longevity. They are very, I would say, they know that the serious longevity takes time, first of all, and also, of course, money. Because longevity is a process, which if you do it in the right way is, again, takes time and needs science and is medical science and needs, of course, investment. So medical science, so you have not only doctors, but you have several healthcare professionals with you. How does a journey look like? What can you expect to expect to be in a better health when you come out of clinic La Prairie, or do you think that you're looking more beautiful when you come out of clinic La Prairie? So let me come back. So what is a longevity process? Then you will understand also what we do at the clinic. But in general, a longevity process is made of three very simple steps. First one is what we call diagnostic. So understanding the way your body works. And today we have very sophisticated way on understanding the way you are, because I will always say superficially, we are all the same, and now we all have DNA, we love it, microbiota, but in reality, we are all very different. Not only many women, each of us is very different. Then there is the intervention phase, which is based on what you have discovered during the diagnostic. Then there is the fallout, which is understanding if what we have done in terms of intervention is working in the right way. So this is the circle of longevity. And this is what we knew, basically, in clinic La Prairie. The first part of the journey of the client is what was on again is very sophisticated test. We just launched a new set of tests that we call longevity master assessment, where you get more than 300 different markers. Genetic, epigenetic, the traditional blood test, of course, glycan, metabolomics, seramide. So it's really a perfect understanding of your situation. And then the intervention in our place are focused on what we call the four pillars. Medical, medical intervention, of course, nutrition, very, very important, well-being, which is also including the mental health and the spiritual part, and movement, which is the fourth pillar. We believe that, despite in the next 10 years, we're going to see a lot of development in the field of longevity. We believe that we will not find the care in the magic pills, which is going to solve all our problems. So the importance of focusing on these four pillars is very important. That's very interesting. Maybe we can deep dive a bit in all these topics. When you say you have a lot of data points, of course, you do a lot of tests, meaning that you can do personalization. I mean, when in the luxury industry overall, we hear, I mean, the mess doesn't want to be treated as mess anymore. The pure luxury is going to be treated for yourself in a distinctive way. So you said that you're doing a lot of tests to have data. For my first question is, how far can you personalize? And the second one, maybe on the way to this is, what about data protection? How do your clients feel for that? It's such a difficult topic currently, because I mean, who does the way to belong to? How do you work with it? And are the patients agreeing that you use their data to serve them better? Yeah. So in terms of, do you really personalize? I think that we can really say that we go to the DNA of our clients, but here we are really talking about the DNA, the real DNA. And again, there is, I think today in the field of preventing medicine, there is not a deeper personalization than what we can do. Again, I was telling you about this different test. We have been the first to do genetic tests for our clients in 2016. Maybe the first to do a genetic test in 2019. I don't know if you know the difference between genetic, epigenetic. I always mention it because it's very important. Genetic is the way we are. So if I take a genetic test to you today and in 20 years is the same, because this is what you get from your parents. Epigenetic is the way you express your genetic and is influenced by lifestyle. And today we know, and this is all over the last 10 years. And by the way, there was a beautiful study coming out just one month ago in the UK over half a million people, we know that 80% of what we are is not the gene is not what our parents gave to us. But it is epigenetic, which means is our lifestyle and our lifestyle is impacting our gene. And when I'm talking about lifestyle, you know what I mean? Are we sleeping well? Are we eating well? Are we too much stress? All things that are being generated. So again, to answer to your question, we can be super precise in terms of personalization. Then data are super important. And of course data. I think a lot of our clients, they are coming to us because we are in Switzerland. There is a very high confidentiality in the data. Of course, your question is very important because in the past we have seen a lot of company which were selling product in longevity just to get data to resell the data. Of course, the reasons that we don't do. And we use just the data for each of our single client for of course, tailoring the intervention and giving to them, especially when they leave a direction of what they have to do after again, they leave the company. So data is secure and the services are personalized and secure and in Switzerland. And you said that, I mean, it's scary for myself. I have to say, my God, I should sleep more and I should go out less and I should eat better and I should drink less. Yeah, it is unfortunately we know and work out more. Maybe let's go back on mental health and sleep. I think this is quite quite related as well. Do you take specifically do you have treated specifically for example to sleep better because there and there as well, we know how closely it's linked and we could sleep makes your life so much easier. Yeah, absolutely. By the way, it's a problem that a lot of our client ever sleep. So in fact, we in the past we had the full program which was focusing on sleeping better. Now it's a module. So you can have a treatment with our phenomenologists and with our doctor, we have a phenomenologist specialized in sleep. And it's a module that you can do whatever whatever program you decide to do a clinical breed. This just to value our importance for us. And you know, we say in longevity that if there is one things that you have to choose to do well is probably sleeping well and this is the most important things and then there is movement and then there is impression. So sleep is very important and mental health is very important. We don't have today a program which is focused on mental health, but we are launching it. We have a program which is focused on the brain, the function of the brain brain potential may be called brain potential. Maybe if you like, we can elaborate on this later, but there is a mental part that is well being part, which is in each of our which is in each of our program. So each of our program is including this very important mental part. We have psychologists, we have therapists, we are focusing also in therapies like trace and meditation, breathing therapies, because we know for our client that these are very important part in their lifestyle. So I may be and that that is for the content of the treatments. Let's speak about the consumers or your patients clients, how you call them. Who typically would come into the clinic? I mean, and have they have that your patients evolved over the years? I mean, you have been said almost around 100 years. How has it, how the demographic and maybe the geographically as well, the consumers evolved? I have to tell you in terms of geography, even looking at what's happening in the last few days, I think we are very lucky because we in the last 10 years, we really focused on the very balanced. I'm talking about the Swiss clinic, very balanced number of clients for all the region. So today we have clients which are coming from basically all the region in the world, very balanced. 10% on America, 10% South America, 25% Europe, 25% Asia, Middle East. I think this is giving us a very strong resilience. And average age is 48 day if you want to have the average, but of course more and more young people which are coming because we don't have to forget that we start aging the day we are born. So it's not true that we start to need to we start to think about longevity. We need to start to think about longevity when we are 60. The earlier we start the better it is, even if better to start, even if you are older than not to start the goal because we know and we can talk about this later with brain plasticity, with muscle plasticity that we can do a lot. Even when we start the day, it's all to take care of our health, but coming back to the client in terms of the persona carrying we have three different type of clients. What we call the wellness and leisure seeker that's the first category and you know when you talk about longevity, this is the biggest category of client in reality. Clients that wants to go to a place where they are pampered that there is a spa and there is a is not longevity, but this is the biggest category today in our field. Then there are what we call the longevity enthusiast, which are the clients that they know everything about longevity, they want to get the latest test, the most sophisticated test and of course these are the clients that come to us because of our technology. And the last category is we call it the health, the wake and the person with problems and they start to realize that they need to take care of themselves. So there has been a wake up calling these people and they say, oh my god, now I need maybe I'm I'm not fluent, I need to take care of myself. So happy and I think the categories are quite clear now, but maybe I mean you have categorized them differently. Let's say 20 years ago because there was probably no longevity enthusiast by then. Yeah, how is this clean to clear level? Yeah, it's interesting to see the evolution of the clinic over the years because there was the answer that was the doctor and then. The clinic has started to focus a lot with the creation of the cream of the delivery cream on the span of for many years we want the best by the world. So there was more this panpering aspect and then we start to build. Besides the spa, a medical full which today is a full-fledged medical hospital and so this medical part became more and more important. We created if you want to remember the concept of medical spa before longevity, we were talking about medical spa and then of course the evolution has been to add more and more medical, more and more technology and to come to. What I like to call longevity clinic, which is what we are today. Okay, understood. Yeah, of course, I mean the people are getting more and more aware and there's more and more information out there. So of course you have a lack in luxury. I mean people entering a store, no already sometimes more than the sales personnel because they've informed themselves so much about the different problems. Which is by the way a big problem because when you come from New York and you come to clinical surgery, you want to have people which are much more competent, not only the new but more competent of. Compared to the doctor or the therapist or the nutrition that you have in New York or in Chiang Gai or in wherever you're coming from. We call it 3C philosophy. Competence for us is super important because again people are spending the money that are spending clinical surgery because they want competent doctor therapist. Then there is the customization. We have discussed about the personalization. They want customized therapies for them. Then for us, which is very important. Very a point, which is very important for us, which is the third is care. Because we want to have people with empathy with care because at the end our mission is to help people. So you need to have this inside you. I like the 3C. It makes sense about feeling at home and feeling well when they come. Just to get back to consumers, are they more female? Are they more male? I'm going to be surprised to know that it's 50/50. 52% women, 48% men, but it's almost 50/50. And what is the average day of a patient or a client? You cannot stay in our place less than one week. So the average day is one week. We have clients which stay more to three or four weeks. But I would say the average day is one week. And what we see overall in the consumer industry is this silver economy. It's the motor baby boomers that are now most of them are retired, much more effluent than the parents were when they were in the retirement age. Often they're in good health. Between 60 and 80 let's say they're traveling and they're spending. Are you focusing on this tranche as well of clients and do you have any treatment specific for them? I mean I'm thinking about with age of course mental health dementia, Alzheimer coming up and training the brain is as important as health and more important at age. Let's say the majority of our clients are in this category that you were mentioning. But when you say mental brain health we in fact was a very important request coming from our clients. We have a program which is our most important program which is called revitalization which is focused on these category of people. We say 40 plus. Despite today we have more and more young people coming but they say 40 plus. But then a lot of these people and revitalization is very much focused on the immune system. But a lot of these people we're asking us how can I stay sharp with my brain right? There is this principle which is called a cognitive reserve so we know that the more you train your brain the more you can delay all the problem that you were mentioning. So we create this program it's called brain potential which is focused exactly on this again with the philosophy that I was telling you there is a very strong diagnostic part. Try to understand if you have any kind of we can anticipate a lot there is artificial intelligence there are a lot of technology to see if there are problem coming. And then there is the intervention again which is based on training as much as you can and teaching you how to train your brain. Okay so the program doesn't end when they leave but they have tools to then do things when they stop. Which is in general what people should do now a lot of people they come to the clinic with the idea I go to the point one week so I can do whatever I want the rest of the year but it doesn't work like this is very important to give continuity because it's with the habits that we create longevity. It makes sense makes sense. You mentioned shortly AI and we like to ask our podcast guests about the use of technology and now you know gen AI and everybody's mouth. How do you use technology to become sharper and maybe more performance in your space. We are working with the eye carrying on two with two different subject the first one which is already active since few days is how can we help to organize for the client all the information that they are getting when they are at the clinic. I was mentioning to you the market I was mentioned to you that a lot of report there there are doctors which are following but we have now we are using AI to help to structure in the best way possible this information because you need to live with actionable information and this is an help for the client and for our staff. And then the second things we are doing with the eye I hope I'm going to be able to announce this project very soon we are creating tool to help the GPM the doctor. To analyze the information because imagine we were mentioning the 300 market super complicated to understand all the relation between these different market and now with artificial intelligence we can do it better. On top of this artificial intelligence is much using medical diagnostic for example in the radiology I was telling you when we do also the brain program use artificial intelligence. So there is already a lot of of these technologies that we use still I believe and we believe that you need human to change human. So we believe that the human factor is very important because it's not about our business and our job and our mission is not about giving information. It's about changing the behavior and of course the technology can help but we want our people to be this driver of change for our clients. So much coming up information to my overflow of information and I think this structure is probably one of the answers that people need. And then as well to help I mean help to help the GPs analyze but similar to my other luxury clients I mean they say. The touch point with the consumer has to stay human because that's as well with distinguish luxury and you don't want to be served by a chatbot or robot or an agent. Let's look maybe at more of the competitive environment I mean you have been around since 1931 you have been probably the first and the most the most well known longevity clinic or health and well being clinic in the world. But if there is you know opportunity and we saw before in the intro that the market is growing there is new market players there's new entrance. How do you see the competition currently and how do you defend or how do you stay a number one in this very difficult space. Let me split your question first of all how do we stay relevant I think you need to go to the essence of what you do. For us the essence of what we do is being life changer so we tend to always invest and focus on what is really delivering change for our clients. So I'm I'm I'm always saying that when you come here at the clinic or when you go to the new clinic we open in China which is I believe the most amazing place in China. Seven square kilometer of deep plantation beautiful lake beautiful nature. This is fantastic but people are coming back to a genetic clinic not because of the luxury of the room or because of the beautiful view and the nature but because of the transformation that they got when they leave. So they only come back is there has been a efficacy in what we've been able to deliver to them then a so this is again focus on our mission being life changer. Then of course the competition is huge I had a journalist who came here 20 years ago I was here three weeks ago and she was telling me this is a birthday you know when I came the first time 20 years ago there were 15 players doing what you do now I counted over 3000. Now I don't know if there are 3000 or 2000 but for sure there are hundreds. If you take Dubai when we have a beautiful clinic that we opened two years ago there are probably 20 clinics opening every month focusing on longevity so the competition is huge. And the way I see the evolution you understand it's if you put together what I just told you we have this hospitality company and this medical technology I believe there is going to be a big concentration in the future because you need investment. That's also the reason why we did the longevity fund by clinical preparation because we want to stay very relevant in the field of innovation in terms of longevity. But again if if I project our field in the future I think clinic will be less and less what they call the super forest model you know a lot of clinic are doing eating very few calories just make it very long walk. And they're going to be focused much more on technology and to have technology need to have investment and in terms of hospitality like what's happened for the hotel business hospitality business. You need always better place bigger room big investment so again they're going to be concentration. So a competition coming up I mean maybe you mentioned Dubai of course there's a lot of doctors a lot of people moving and incentive to move to Dubai. But as well now businesses are being created digitally very easy you can have a fantastic website people are being attracted and behind the scene it's maybe not always as glamorous than it is on the website. How do you how do you manage to keep the relevance and your reputation intact. Yeah you know it's it's very interesting because we just launch our new brand platform and we decided not almost not to talk anymore about what we do practically in our stay because we were saying exactly what you were just mentioning. We launch a new program after three weeks we have a competitor which is putting online a similar program and of course like said people are deceived when we launch a program it takes our years to make it when we launch a program years a product. With all this against with our supplement brand we just launch a new product is calling pin on 3 years of development doctor important is a very complicated machine and engine. So we decided let's talk about the brand the history our mission which is again being life changer and our business model is functioning basically mainly carrying on word of mouth so again on the how good we have been with the clients that they come here. The best way for us that this kind they go back and the first dinner they do with friends they say oh my god big to the cleaning has been an amazing experience you have to go. Yes and and do you have a very loyal clients I mean the people that you said word of mouth so they have to talk to their friends but are they coming back as well I do you manage to have a good audience. We are returning clients almost 60% of our clients are coming back we would like them to come back more frequently we are a command to come to our place at least once a year and some of them is even twice a year but this part of the journey that's why we created the longevity of the urban center we want to have 40 urban center. Because we want to create this routine of longevity with our clients. So an urban center is a center where you don't sleep we just come in and the exact exact exact because you know the other problem in our field is that you come to La Prairie you have a nutritionist which is giving you advice telling you how to eat. Then you go back to a nutritionist wherever in Dubai and is telling you exactly the opposite no we read if you take nutrition is a good example we read everything. Integrative fasting fasting, good bed, Paleolithic diet or this kind of stuff so it's very important that we keep consistency because consistency is the most important part in Hungary. And maybe I was thinking about you know getting a Michelin star you work hard you work hard to get there you know even I mean like tech companies your number one but staying at number one always staying ahead of competition when you are already number one is quite hard. And you and now with every day I mean with social media and influencers you have to communicate differently and what worked in the past wouldn't work now. So what do you do specifically or what can you share a sustain number one how do you stay number one when you already number one. That's a difficult question as I was telling you first of all you are right there is only one thing that can happen if your number one is become number two so it's your total right. I will tell you again stay very true to what is the essence of the value that you bring to the client a second I think is a cultural is a very important culture shift. I always tell my people you need to wake up every morning ask yourself what can you do better today compared to yesterday and if you are able to put this culture in the company sometimes difficult of course because you always need to question yourself. I think that you can stay number one and then of course there is this idea of being very much focus we call it patient journey in our in our field. You can call it customer experience patient journey but really to stay very focused on this and for us personalization is a very important part of this patient journey if you are able to you know imagine that you put the client in our ecosystem you have this test 30 test biomarker the doctor that you like the service is very unlikely that the client is living ecosystem. But at the origin of this there is this idea that I've been able to take care of the else of my clients I was mentioned yesterday the conference that in 2016 came out report from I don't remember the company was saying they're over 80% of American they were not finding the right partner to take care of their health and in China was exactly the same so there is this need of finding the right. Let's call it preventing medicine partner and I think that if you have an ecosystem if you have the right philosophy is very again unlikely that you that you lose the client. Okay understood. Simona maybe under on the expansion of the group I mean is that was that as a necessity do you see that maybe consumers drawn to travel less I mean not only that you have expanded now to the buy into China but you created as well. The urban centers is that part of the fact that you clients want to see more of you and one clinic was not enough or is it just need to get a scale in order to be seen because the world is becoming more global but same at the time local people want to maybe travel less and be served locally. The starting point was the again the the client journey so we were seeing that if you are of course if you are in if you're living in China you can come one week every year to clinic. But this was not enough for us so we wanted to give continuity so now if you are in Dubai if you are in Bangkok if you are in Madrid where we have a urban center you can come once per year in the delivery but then with our center you create you create a journey and then the step was how can I give my technology every day to my clients that's how we decided to develop policy against our supplement brand because we wanted to have some of our technology. For our clients we say in every day of their life and then the last venture that we are doing which is the fund that I was mentioning to you was answering to the question how can I feed innovation and stay relevant you just mention at the beginning of the conversation how is important innovation in what we do and so that's why we decided to the fund but at the end there is always the client the need of the client and this idea of creating an ecosystem around the client. Client centricity that's the topic that we often hear in the luxury industry because you cannot just push your product the client wants to be listened and once personalization and that's exactly what we do. So maybe as almost last question what we ask our speakers is what is their vision and what is their predictions on the luxury industry I'm in starting with longevity but as well it's the it's the me taking care of myself I'm luxury. How do you see that this is going to evolve and you know the move from products to experiences is that going to continue and so what will be the luxury of tomorrow. Sure is a difficult question but let let me say I strongly believe that luxury is less status without substance with this appear in the medium to long term so which means that we have to focus on what are we giving to our clients in terms of how do how are we able to change the life and reach the life. And reach the life of the clients making the life of the clients better and of course you say yes more but in your business is easy when you sell products much more difficult and I agree with you but at the end this has to be the focus. Which is you know you were mentioning experience let me had memorable experience and if the experience is about health and making your life better it's by definition memorable and then it's also about meaning and then when we talk about meaning we talk about again the people the attitude of the people again we were talking about being life changer we are very proud. When clients is coming here is coming to us and say you know the first things that I notice is that every people that I talk with as something inside and is transferring this humanity and party and care and this I think is what we should all focus on it's about having a purpose about really changing the life of the people. And I think you have discussed it and you asked me already to work to question this I think personalization but the real personalization it's a key point for the luxury of the future. Being nice to people doesn't harm and that's what people remember and the interpersonal relations cannot be changed emotions is what I mean luxury is about emotion and it's about memories and the feeling that you create when you see something or experience something and it is a long last thing. Feeling that stays within you so that's what you create a really love love hearing that. Simone you you look very healthy you are standing while we are recording which means that you take care of your health what exactly are you doing to take care of your health and your longevity. Yeah let's say you are at the beginning of the college where just telling me I had to solve problem all day long which is what we have to do so our I'm there is you probably heard about this Brian Johnson which is now everybody is looking at him in terms of longevity which is not doing anything except exercising and taking unfortunately we cannot do it in our daily life right so we need to find a way to introduce longevity in our life. Carrying the point and this is a very important point that I'm very happy to discuss with you we all know that we need to move more sleep eight hours it more salad not get stressed the question is why we don't do it also it's it's it's changing our identity is the way we see our self in 10 years. In which as condition we see we want to be in 10 years and then it's all about the habits that we are able to create in our life related to longevity there are a lot of books we don't have time to go into it my only suggestion which is what I do. The one hour every morning and focus on on your well being personal I do to a rational meditation just something that I suggest you're listening to look at the end of the day doesn't cost anything huge scientific result then I do yoga you need to when you age you need to have three things muscle so strength training flexibility and cardio so you need to put this three type of exercise. And then for me, journaling is also very important so writing about your day about what's happened but these are the three things that I do every morning one hour and if you hope to do it at the end of the day there is always something happening that it makes you not doing it so the point is to do it at the beginning of the day that's my suggestion. Thank you it's very interesting and maybe we can can can put that your traditions in the readers notes I'm happy that I do yoga every morning so at least I take a little box with you and I think friends and nice moments in life are important as well because tonight I will have a couple of glasses of rosé with my friends I hope you don't mind because I think this is important moments in life. Don't feel guilty about this sometimes it's even worse. This was an amazing conversation in one of your unfortunately already at the end of our recording but I think we learned a lot I mean you you made a think about things without making us feeling guilty which is not an easy exercise I have to say and and I feel that we can all make a difference to our lives and we should collectively think about it and the one hour in the morning should be definitely thought about and Thank you for sharing your learnings and to tell more about longevity and clinic La Prairie really was a perfect conversation. Thank you for having me again. Thank you for listening to Luxury on Air with Karin Sagari and Felicitas Morhide. This podcast is provided to you by Deloitte Switzerland and the Swiss Centre for Luxury Research. If you've enjoyed this episode you can leave us a five star review. If you're keen to stay up to date on what's trending in the luxury industry don't forget to subscribe. As always you can find more information about the current episode in the show notes. We wish you all the best until next time.