Season 4 Episode 11 Joe Bandelli

What is up everybody? Welcome to set stories podcast yet again. What is up? How how is everyone doing out there? I'm going to give you a moment to answer because I hope it's good. I'm doing it with with with with be good. Charles, you're here. Oh my God. I know I'm alive still after all this nonsense. I like your shirt, by the way, really do. I know it's not Halloween anymore, but I love. I mean, the Simpsons during Halloween is like the best, I think. Treehouse or maybe yeah, I was never allowed to watch the Simpsons growing up. My mom was told not to show it to me, but I did. I have watched all the treehouse horror episodes and I was like, this is the bomb. This is so funny. That's a very weird isn't it a kids show? I don't know. It's no, it's it's both. I don't know what it is doing now since Nancy bottom up, but yeah. Oh, we did. Oh yeah, that does. On Disney+. Anyway, and enough of our banter, you guys. We have a very special guest. And his name is Joe Bendelie. He's a writer, director, producer, and he's on our show now. Yeah. Oh my God. It was a Joe Bendelie. Let me start off by saying that was the best intro. Oh my God. That's great. I want you guys to bring me in the conversation so I could start talking about treehouse and horror. We got to the whole podcast about that round. Keep your willy as as Freddie Krueger. The shine England. I like the haunted house one. That was funny. Bitch in. We're just talking about that. Oh my God. You started with your shirt, bro. You know, it's we try to break the funnyness. Keep it real. I wake up to funny and try to step today because we do live in the crazy industry. As Joe knows, Mr. Director, Freaking directing feature films. Holy shit. Yeah. Tell us tell us about this because you have a job that literally like we all want. So how how does it? How does it tell us how you got into it? All your your stuff. Sure. Well, I was a baby boy. Now that's not how it starts. I grew up. I always wanted to work in the entertainment industry. And I would kind of grow up in one of those households or not household, but like immediate family where everyone was like, you don't look like Brad Pitt. You're probably not going to be successful in the film industry. So I got a lot of that growing up. So thanks family for that. But but so I I went to high school and college and did this whole thing trying to be in law enforcement. I wanted to work for the federal government. Apparently, if you guys ever saw a little Miss Sunshine. Yes. No, you know, the whole Paul Dano, like colored blind can't be a pilot thing. That same thing happened to me with me. Really? So yeah. So I decided to take a quick left turn and say, fuck it. I'm tired of like doing anything because people told me I can't do it. So I'm just going to go be a filmmaker and I kind of was like, do I want to be an actor? Do I want to be filmmaker? And I realized I'm such a control freak that there's no way I could just act and let someone else handle everything. I have to I have to direct. So yeah, I went to film school. I you know, worked on features works as a grip work doesn't electric work does. Yeah, it did. I did all that stuff. And then I started realizing that every contact that I had only saw me as like a first AC or only saw me as a grip. And I was like, shit, I'm like, I think I have to start turning jobs down. So I just had to say no to everything unless it was writing, directing or producing and, you know, 15,000,000 through the same thing right now. Oh my God. So yeah, you just got to say no and you just got to keep doing what you're doing. I know the drugs and no drugs. And no drugs. Yeah, but you have to like follow your heart, right? It's like where your passion lies. And like if you once you get caught up in the that gig, like that one position, they're going to keep calling you for that until you're like 45 and retired. So, you know, I was very lucky because I, I kind of found an in in the live production industry. And I, I used to work for this company called live stream that eventually got bought by Vimeo. And I, I sort of work, I do work for this company called sweet spot now. And pretty much I work in live production. So live directing, live producing, but I, when I started it was like 95% of my, like week was taken up by live and 5% was taken up by film or television. And now it's sort of the drifting in the direction of like it's probably 60% film and television and 40% live. You know, keep, keep pushing to get that live out the door. But that job, man, it really is. Yeah, I've read many times. I know people doing this for 20 years plus some of them and they're still not in the position they want to be in. And you know, the hard thing about it is getting married, having kids, buying houses, or that kind of stuff really just like, you got to find, you got to have passion for it. And you got to be in a good situation because one of those things, and not to shit on any of those things because I just bought a house and I'm getting married and all that shit too. But you, you really have to make sure that you understand like what your passion is and what you're going to follow because you're going to have to make sacrifices here and there to make those things happen. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. You're going to love that shit. Yeah. That's understands obviously. That's what my film school told me. They're like, it's, it's like being like in, in the, it's like being in a cop, you know what I mean? Like work crazy hours. You know what I'm saying? It's maybe hard for some people to grasp. 100% to. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely takes a different breed and also like aside from the music industry, I think it's the hardest industry to like make it in like. And the thing that I always tell people is you could be talented. You could have the right team. You could have the most drive, but you still need to be lucky. Like you could have three of those work. Oh, yeah. And you literally just struggle the rest of your career. You do need a little bit of luck. You do need to kind of catch a break here and there. It is a very big industry on who you know and how you know people. So, um, yeah, I mean, you just got to keep working. And my, my motto is, this is what I always say to people. I always say, I never thought that I was the most talented person. And I never thought I was the smartest person, but I know for sure I'm the hardest working person. And I know that I can, I can take no more often than most people can. And I can keep hearing no and keep hearing no. And it just drives me to want to get that. Yes, where I think a lot of people like I went to film school. I think there were 30 of us in the film school that I went to. And I think to this day, maybe three people still direct. You know, that's a shitty percent. Man, yeah, the same same with my school too. Yeah. Give me wrong. I'm sure like half of them are still in the film industry, but they picked a trade and like stuck with it. Like they're a script supervisor or they're in the camera department or, you know, production manager, something like that. Same same here, man, Littler, that's so far all my friends. Some of them, you know, they, they just started traveling or they got other gigs. Yeah, or they're doing what they were doing. And, you know, on art thesis project in film school, I'm like, damn son. Yep. You know, yeah, aspirations. What I say is my, my solution is get rid of all the working actors. All right. I'm sorry, working directors now. No working actors. Right. I see in the 40 and slip. Right. Like all of a sudden, wait. I'll know that directors are disappearing. What's happening? We don't know, but we take their jobs to take their jobs. And you know, it's funny because everyone thinks that because of streaming platforms and because of all the way content is available that like that's just another opportunity for people to make movies. Oh, it's true. It's 100% true, but also it's a ton more competition. And it's like, oh my man. You guys, if you guys flip on any streaming platform and pull up one movie, I guarantee you're going to be like, I'm a better director than that director. I know. I'm not going to be. We've all done it. We've all done it. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. 100. Oh my god. So it's a tough industry. Do you guys watch the, um, um, the movies that made us and the games that made us and the TV shows that made us that documentary? I have. Yeah. Oh, that's a duck. Yeah. It's a good series. Um, they do like short little doc recaps in like 40 minutes of like a very famous like movie that like is part of our childhood or something like that. Like a forest gone back to the future Halloween things like that. But I was watching the, I think it was the back to the future one. And it was, uh, I was just like blown away by the opportunities that directors back in the 70s and 80s had. Like they could make flop after flop after flop. Yeah. But the film industry was technically considered like a dying industry in the television. Oh, really? Like, yeah, like I, there's some like like Robert Zemeckis had like three flops before he had one decent. That's true. And back to the future. And it's like, you know, it like I, the first movie that I ever directed, uh, the first feature that I ever directed, which is behind me over here, um, seclusion, cabin fear, whatever. It's on Amazon crime. Feel free to watch it. Represent. I'm watching. I'm watching. I heard you know, such as podcasts. It's like, I made that movie on a shoestring budget. I wrote, I directed, I produced with my partner. I did so many different things and I learned so much, but the movie's like, it's okay. You know, like there are so many things that I learned that I know I could have done better. And I know that there are people in the industry that still judge me based on that one movie. And I'm like, you know what? If this was the 70s, I would have been given millions of dollars to make another movie, but not the world we live in. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. I remember seeing that documentary like hearing. I'm like, well, how did, then how did back to the future get so good? Like become what it was now. It's a different time. They have to reshoot the whole movie because they've been shooting it once. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And they went over budget by a. - Yeah, it's a ton. - Back then? - Yeah. - Can you imagine getting an opportunity with a studio and then like here we'll give you two million dollars and you shooting the whole movie and then being like wait, after recast or you fucking being like fucking Spielberg and shooting on the waters and going like 150 days over budget and like wow. - That shit doesn't happen nowadays. - Oh no. - Did you go one day over? - Yeah, you get one chance and if you and if it's if some people don't like it, it's like fuck you, there's another person waiting out to look you. - Yeah, it's pretty scary. Yeah, but we still do it. - I have talked to many young independent film directors and they always say they're doing very successful but they say at the first film was like fucking the hardest thing ever. But that got them their next film, their next film. - Oh, you always learn something from like any filmmaker will say this when you ask them what's your favorite movie that you directed. They're always gonna say the next film. 'Cause by the time you finish it, they didn't do it yet. - Yeah, by the time you finish making a feature, you're already like that could be better, that could be better, that could be better. And especially when you're talking like studios, like talk about when you talk about like the last duel, when Matt Damon and Adam Driver are promoting that movie, they're going around and doing press for that movie. Probably a year, maybe two years after they got done filming that movie. So when people are asking them about how their characters are this and that or whatever, they're probably like I'm such a better actor than I was two years ago. And it's the same way with directors. It's like you're already onto the next story, onto the next thing when something becomes somewhat successful. And yeah, I would just lie to the audience. So like you know what? - Yeah. - Yeah, I was just in the moment, bro. I'm just kidding. Adam Driver, no, I'll be Ben Affleck. I was just there, bro, in the moment. - He's in the trailer for like one second. - Yeah. - That's it. Like all right. - He's like right about to say something. - Like, no. - No. - Ben Affleck wants to have a story with my-- - Oh yeah, we'll have them on next week. - Yeah, yeah, whatever. - Right, he's the next guest. Yeah, I'm just the warm up for him. (laughing) I'm the opener. - Joe, I want to hear some of your stories that you have. - Okay. - Some of the amazing stories. - We're kinda stories from here. - And any kind. Any kind of about prepare. - So I'm gonna tell a funny story first because this is something when our, you guys interviewed Amy Clewitt, who's a good friend of mine. - She's awesome. - And Amy told me about you guys. She said you're funny. She said blah, blah, blah. So my immediate thought was, I gotta think that's something really funny that happened. - Funny is always the best. - Yeah. - So I have some good stories that are not funny, but this one I'm just gonna tell you. So I was working on a film, recent film. And there were plenty of times where, I'm not gonna knock sound people, but like the usual thing about a good sound person is they're seen and not heard. You know what I mean? Like they're super quiet. They're always kinda like in their corner. And then when you're ready to roll, when you're ready to rehearsal, they're all been ready to go. So there were, we worked with this guy and he just wasn't ever ready. Like ever. Like he was never watching monitor whenever we were doing rehearsals. He was like, he was never paying attention. So we'd be rehearsing at the actors, getting lights, tweets, and then we'd be ready to go. And then he'd be like, wait, where am I supposed to be? And he was the loudest person too. So I remember having conversations with him 'cause I produced this film, I didn't direct it. So I remember having conversations with him and be like, hey, you're doing a good job, but you need to like, you need to not speak as much. (laughing) - Shut the fuck up. - Shut the fuck up. - Yeah. - And what I noticed was whenever I gave him a note or whenever I gave him something, they'd be on set. And I'd either be in the other room watching on monitor or doing something else. And the A/D would say something. And he'd be like, oh, I wanna do this instead. And she'd be like, why the hell would you do that? And he'd be like, well, Joe told me to. Like, what? - Whoa, you just wanted to bust? - Yeah, all the time. And I was like, that's not even close to what I said. So this all kind of culminates on one day, which we're shooting in the woods and we're shooting a car scene. And it's two characters in a car talking and they get out of the car and they walk off into the woods. So it was a skeleton crew. There was only a few of us there. And we happened, the area that we were shooting in, there was a lot of traffic, there was a lot of noise. So like the whole time we kept having a hold for sound and doing all this, now that we're out in the middle of the woods, it was really quiet. So we're used to at this point, we're like three quarters into the shoot at this point. We told the sound guy, like, hey, this is happening. Get room tone of that, get room tone of that, get room tone of that. So we're in the car and we have a shot. It's like behind the seat facing the one of the female leads and she says her lawns and gets out of the car and then walks off. So we're in the middle shooting it and I'm right behind the director and the cameras here, the booms here, the directors here, the scripties here and I'm here. Like we're all like on the car. - Yeah. - No, no, we're all the prestanding outside the car. - Oh, we're in the driver's side. I guess the backseat driver's side, shooting through to the passenger. - Oh, okay. - Okay, but we're all like, we didn't have like a monitor, we didn't have stuff because it was a skeleton crew. So we're all kind of crowding and like very tight. So underneath us all and kind of weaved in as the boom. The boom's kind of set in there. - We've been there. - And the girl starts talking and the wind starts picking up like tremendous. - Of course it does. - So she is a great performance. She gets out of the car, slams the door, starts walking and then the director, we both have context on sort of both listening. The director goes, he like taps the boom and looks at the sound guy and he goes, which is universal for keep it the fuck rolling. And then he starts kind of like pulling the boom out to like get the on of like of the area. And it's like, okay, everyone understands what's happening right now. Like he's the director's not yelling cut 'cause he wants to get room tone of the wind picking up so he can use this take. - Yeah. - So he pulls kind of out and he starts going and this was, we were shooting out of 8K. So it was like every second that we were rolling that we didn't need to roll, we were just burning through hard drives and stuff. - 8K. - Yeah. - Wow. - So I'm sitting there and I'm like, when he pulls the boom out, I go, let's cut camera and our DP goes copy and cuts camera and then we're sitting there and I'm not kidding you. It's like 90 seconds and we're like, the director's like this, I'm like this, scripties like this and then everyone else is kind of just sitting there. And we're all sitting there. It's like dead silent, no one's talking. And then we're getting towards the end and all of a sudden there's a house nearby and a giant fan goes on. So I see the director, his back is to me and he's starting to do like, like I know he's about to yell cut. He's like doing that whole thing. (laughing) - You can see what? - Yeah and so I grab his hands and he turns and looks at me and I point to the fan and I point to the sound guy and I do this and he gives me a little nod and then we sit there for probably another 60 seconds. So we're standing there for two and a half minutes of silence. - It's like forever for right home. - And then we're getting towards the end and I go, all right, let's cut. And he looks at me. The sound guy looks at me and goes, wait was I supposed to be rolling that whole time? (groaning) - No, are you kidding me? - No, you're not saying. - You're not saying. (laughing) - I'm like, what the fuck do you think we were doing? Of course that's not what I said. I just said, you said that what you're looking. - All right, cool. - Let's just move on. - Oh my God. - Oh my God. - That was a good move. - Room tone moment. You guys got like three room tones in that. - Seriously. - Yeah, and that's the film school and you coming out 'cause it's like, get room tone. - Yeah. - Yeah. - You got room tone. - You got it. - Yeah. - And it didn't help that literally two days before I was talking with our sound designer and he said to me, he goes, hey, I know that usually a lot of people don't ask for this stuff but can you make sure you get extra room tone? - Oh yeah. - I need it for certain sequences and I was like 100% and I talked to this guy and it was like, cool. So that was sort of how that whole thing went. - Oh my God. - Room tone is such a signature thing, man. - But it's so important too. And like when I trust me, I've seen films where they don't have it and it cuts from room to room to room and it goes, (imitates gun) - You can hear the AC stuff. - You can hear the AC stuff and I'm like. - And here's the thing, here's the thing. Any decent sound person knows how to do that and understands what you're doing it for. And any decent like film set is gonna have someone, it's like at this point it's not even like a, hey let's make sure we get it, it's like we get it. Like it's part of the fucking deal. Like everyone knows it and I don't know. It just, - It does have to be reminded though. I'm not gonna lie. I don't know. - I use the shoot and grip and electric and I work on a lot of these independent short film or independent features like lifetime movies and asylum, no any more. But yeah, and yeah, right. We were right better than that, those guys. And they still get them jobs. They could flop on asylum movies and they'll continue to give you jobs. But yeah, they still didn't have to room tone most of them. You know, or the sound person, a good sound person will have to fight for it. - Yeah, that still sucks. It still happens. - The way I was explaining it was like, you don't notice it when it's there. But you notice it when it's not there. - 100% 100%. - And it takes what a minute, just 60 seconds of like everyone understands so trust me, I do a lot of sound on student films I used to. And it's such a fight. It's like sometimes the director says, yells out, that's a wrap. And I'm like, I just told you five times I need to get room tone and everyone is pissed off at me. - Yeah, you gotta work with the good AD 'cause a good AD will be like, I got you. I'll take care of it. And then at the end when everyone's like, that's Art Maritini shot or we're done. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. one, shut the fuck up. - Yeah. - That gives a room. - Yeah. - Whatever. - Seriously. - Yeah. - So I had to lead off with that because that was the weird, and it was, that was the 10th room tone moment. Like I get-- - In the middle of the woods and everything. - Yeah, you do have to get that, you do have to get that dope. Yeah, there's plenty other things with this guy that happened, but I was just like, what are you doing? I sound people. - Robin, Robin also had a good sound story in her episode. - Yeah. - And the last season, which was hilarious. Like he came to work with a Hickey, and that was not right. - Gotta hide it. You gotta wear a turd. - Yeah. - Gotta hide it or something. - When you shoot-- - You shoot up on time? - Yeah. - I just know this because most of the movies that I've shot, especially the bigger ones are all horror films. When you shoot, when you shoot horror films and you shoot low budget films, when you shoot films that you're in the woods with people, that whole group becomes a family. It happens on other films too, but when you're secluded and there's no one fucking else. - Yes, sir. - Oh, my god, yes. - You can't hide that shit. - You can't, man. It's like who was doing what, especially the AirBeebbees. I worked on a movie with I was with Jason Lemmo and these other actors. It was a pretty big movie. We were in the desert. I ran into, I hired, I gripped, but I hired another grip. I did a great job. I did a great job. I did a great job. I did a great job. I got a good job with my friend. And this guy, yeah, we're, we're basically in the desert for six weeks. Great. It was a great shoot. It was a good story too. But when the desert for six weeks were in AirBeebbees living with each other's roommates. And this cat decides to invite someone over. And we kind of heard them the whole day. Yeah. Inside the house. And we were like, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. as I would 100% not produce it. I would 100% hire an outside producer to handle everything else so that I could just concentrate on directing. - Yeah, but even on the end when she has the fan, it's good. (laughing) But so, but listen, I mean, it kind of created good experiences Matt, Matt, is a casting associate at Warner Brothers. - Oh, shit, that's nice. - He loves casting, he's so fucking good at it. - That is so important. We're always talking about that 'cause it's like, don't under the bus so many times. And he liked genuinely, I think that experience made him realize that he didn't want to act anymore. And obviously, there's the like, you know, my partner, but I think that opened that door for him. And for me, it was like a really, really, really good example of, I'm not trying to chewed our own horn, but I remember being in rooms with him on whiteboards 'cause it was a who-done it. It was eight people go to a cabin in the woods for murder. They got to a cabin from the cabin in the woods for a wedding ceremony and one by one, each person in the wedding party starts getting killed. And it's like, who's the killer? Is it one of them or is it someone else stalking them? And I still think what we did with the script, the script is so far superior to what the actual execution of the film is. - Oh, yeah, the execution. - Yeah, so the man, you know, and like we had injuries like our first day, one of our grips, we were shooting exterior in the woods and one of our grips had like the Matthew Sand come down and clamp on his thumb and broke his thumb. We had-- - Matthews? - Yeah. I think he had like a 4K on it when it came down on it. Oh my God. Yeah, the T-handle probably got loose. - Yeah, boof. - Yeah, so that happened. We had a fog machine, like a big fog machine that I spent a fuck tone on broke right before we're getting ready to shoot all these two nights. - Oh no. - Our first 80 fell down the stairs and broke his toe. - Oh my God, man. - Yeah. - It just hurts me. - Yeah, and I think, and our production designer broke her toe too. It was just like so many things. - Those are the gods of shit. - Yeah, and listen, I just got done producing a film last month and we had another small group of people, but the people, like there was something different about it. We had the right people. I was producing, we had the director directing. We had the right people and the right roles with the right experience and it was easy to make the film. It wasn't a hard film to make. - That is. - It's like a game changer. - Yeah. - It really is. It's not the amount of people. It's the right people for the job. - Yeah, and listen, I mean, my first feature, I had people that I'm still friends with, that I love, that I will continue to work with for the rest of my life, that it was like, hey, are you good at this? Can you do this? It was like kind of that whole thing as opposed to being like, let's go higher someone who's been doing this for years. Let's go higher someone. - Yeah, I was like, that could bone you, 'cause you could be getting, and I've seen it too. Like where DPs will hire these like big gaffers, and then DPs will be like, so do this as this and gaffers like, nah man, 30 years, I gaffed all these movies. I know what it is. It's like, bro, listen to your guy. - Yeah, I think, especially when you're doing low budget, and especially when you're doing something that isn't five days of opportunity. - That's exciting. You need to work with a team of people that walked to work on that set, not people who are doing a Just for a Paycheck. You have to be able to care about the projects. - Absolutely. - And that's the thing. I think that was my biggest learning is, I hired people because I just needed people. I didn't hire. - Oh man, I've done that. Oh my God, I've hired my friend, my magician, my magician, my musician friend, he plays guitar. I hired him to do sound like three times. Oh my God. I don't have a sound, like in film school, it was weird, like wearing groups. And like, and all my classes, I would help them do their shoes, and be like, yeah, we'll help you. And then they never came and helped me. And I'm like, fuck. So I ended up like asking my friends, I'm like, hey, I need you to help me shoot. Like, I had never done this. Remember this one time, I was doing my 16 millimeter cinematography shoot. I literally wrote something, I had the meal. - Am I sensing a New York film academy graduate right there? - No, I went to, I grew up in Arizona. I went to Scottsdale Community College. - Got it. - Yeah, in the desert. I literally learned like in the desert. But we got this guy to do sound, and he kept falling, he was like, the dumbest guy, I don't know what he was doing. He couldn't hold the boom pole. Like the only job is to hold the pole. And it was like, it's like shots like this. - Yep. - And he kept falling, and we're shooting on film. Look at Dippin in the frame. And I would have to cut, I'm like, yo, like, you're one. - Just think of it. - And you know, it's crazy. There's a hundred of those stories for every one story where like, that is the case on like, it would be like paranormal activity that turned out to be like a billion dollar franchise. Like, there are a hundred percent successful stories of people who hired friends and people who worked on film. - Oh yeah. - All of five that actually turned out to be something great versus the whole platter of us who had to go through all the hard times of being like, "Whoa, that's my mistake." - There goes a hundred years. - That was a lot of just dumb drain. - Yeah. - I had a question. I buy a film. How was it doing to see the swimming scene in the cold? - So it wasn't a swimming scene. It was, there was a lake. We didn't actually have anyone go in the lake. The girls were fucking freezing. And you know, the guys were cold too, but like, I mean, every member of that cast is a fucking trooper for going through what they had to go through. Like East Coast 40 degree weather in a bikini. Like, that's the kind of stuff that I don't tell you in acting school. - Yeah. - Whenever they see actors, you're amazing for, like the Revenant, like Leo, it's like, bro, like. - Oh man, I don't want to be an actor, all of us like yet, but like, you don't need to be like, you guys still being character. And it's funny. So the two big movies that sort of created my, like filmmaking experience or started me on a path was the same year that I directed my first feature, was the same year that I was hired to produce my first feature as well. And the guy that I worked with is the guy that I just produced for a month ago. We've, I've produced four movies for him. And him and I did two completely different things. And even when we were like looking for sales agents and distributors or whatever, we, like, it was almost like, it was a cool experience to be like, we're gonna do this, this way. And then being like, well, then I'm gonna do this one, this way to see what it does. And like, I mean, the other film was far more superior, but that film, like, you know, you're talking about, like someone making a movie for the first time and having like such success, that film has tremendous amount of success and like has gotten us to make a second movie, a third movie and now an fourth movie. - Yep, you did that leap. - Yeah, and so him and I, this is Steven Cognetti, him and I work together pretty much all the time. And yeah, it's just crazy to see like, we, I need two movies that year. And one of them occasionally someone will be like, yeah, sorry, movie. And the other one, everyone's like, oh shit, that's that, I've seen that, that's awesome. Like really? - Yeah, that's such a good feeling. How do they make you feel like real? - I mean, honestly, like, good and bad. It makes me feel good because I'm a part of the two-person creative team that's coming up with this stuff and working on it. And that's amazing. And like, we have amazing fans. And I think anytime you make something that inspires someone to either like it or want to make something like it, I think that's tremendous experience. - Oh yeah. - So I feel great about that, but I also feel shitty about that because I'm just like, man, I directed a movie at the same time and the movie sucks. (laughing) You know what I mean? - That's your opinion, man. - Yeah, I know. - That's what I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, if you guys, I'm sure you guys know this better than anyone, but it's the whole, the industry is a hard industry. So anytime you know someone getting success, there's always a little bit of like a, like this director, I know this director, and they got that and it's like, you're happy, but then you're also like, - Yeah, you look at what they're doing, like, I'm not there yet. - I'm not there yet. - Yeah, it's all, like, constant thing. And like, it's hard to, like, I know a lot of people who like literally like can't be friends with other people who are directors or writers or anything like that, which I think is awful. - But, wow. - Yeah, I mean, I believe it, man. - It gets industry. - It gets industry. But at the end of the day, I think every film that I've worked on has paved the way for the next film and the next film. And I have so much appreciation for working on the things I did. I have so much appreciation for meeting Steve and working with him on the movies that we've worked on together. - Yeah, I just-- - Is Hell House LLC one of them? - Hell House LLC is the film that I'm talking about. - Oh nice. - Steve wrote, and Steve Cognetti wrote and directed, and then I produced a forum. And yeah, we made the Hell House movie. I remember we were giving the first day Steve kind of gave a speech to everyone. Like, we always do our little opening speeches when the whole cast and crew got there. And Steve gave us opening speech to everyone. And it was like, he said, we're aiming for Blair Witch. It may not be as good as Blair Witch, so we're aiming for Blair Witch. And I remember like right afterwards being like, you've been kidding me dude, I'm like, Blair Witch, I'm like, we're not gonna do that. And of course we didn't do that. But man, the following of people that love this movie is incredible. Like it's-- - Wow. - People do horror fans are committed, and they're the best. - And you know, I say this to Steve all the time. He was so genius because he picked Anish in a genre. He picked Found Footage Horror, which for horror fans, like we know of like, Grave Encounters and the Taking of Deborah Logan and VHS and all these other films other than the Big Two. But for the most people, like general population, when you ask them about a Found Footage Film, it's either Blair Witch or Paramural Activity. Those are the new films that they know. So he picked an industry that like, I'm not kidding you, every Halloween, if you Google like best found footage films for Halloween to watch, I guarantee you, Hell House is in the top five or top 10 every year. And it's insane. - Wow. saying to us that that's that like people watch it. We're interested. And it's it's on Amazon Prime. So go ahead and watch it. Yeah. It's the trailer looks super creepy. And luckily we had so we made the first one completely independent. And then we brought our sales agent. We brought terror films on to help us kind of distribute it. And it was a great it worked out so well. Such a great relationship. And how that film kind of proceeded. Then we made the second film. I don't think the second film was as good. But we made the second film and then out of that we got to deal with shutter and then shutter shutter shutter licensed us to make the third film. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so we made three movies for an SN shutter. But they're on shutter. They're on Amazon Prime. And the thing if you do look up how how stuff is there's this whole Abadon tape thing, which is a series that Stephen Eyre trying to get picked up, which is sort of a prequel series that tells kind of a lot of the backstory of the things that you miss in the in the films. Oh, I love that man. You start I'm jelly. You got to draw to go to everything. Am I sad? See is a competition. Come on. We've got to beat him. We're trying to do a genre with set stories. And so far, it's just me and who he come up with. Well, and and a little I know it's not Halloween, but like literally me and another friend of Arles of Charles and mine of Arles. Of Arles. Sorry. I'm going to take to a. We can mess up. We can mess up on this podcast. See I do it again. My God. But no, we're like writing like a five, like five minute short films like an anthology horror comedy type thing. And that's I mean, I never ever thought I would write horror. And it's like my favorite thing to write now. Like the last, the last few things that I've done have been thriller or like horror related. Oh, I mean, I tell you the two best acting feelings in the world is the first off, the fact that you can elicit some type of emotion from people by watching a screen is fucking amazing. But the fact that for me, it's always been I always call it joy giggles and scourge giggles and scared shitless. If I can elicit someone to laugh out loud where they are trying or someone to be so scared from the screen, like I've done my job. Like that's the coolest fucking feeling in the world. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, definitely. So, but you know, it's weird. Like I will, I will tell you this, the two things that I will say that I've learned even as recently as like last week are one, especially when you're starting out, especially when you aren't like a very one director or you're getting paid big money to make these things, you have to write what you know. You want to reason have to write what you know. Don't pick a space movie and do interstellar. Like you can't do that when you don't. Like you can't do that. Like, um, picks the content that you know and then also write for a budget. Like they tell you in film school to do that. People, this was what my mistake was. I wrote a movie for a budget. I didn't execute it as well as I had hoped for it. And then after that, I was like, I made my $100,000 movie and every script I wrote since then up until the most recent script, script. So like six scripts. All of them are like $1 million, $2 million, $3 million. And like, then you get into the script. And then you get into the room with someone and they're like, what do you have? And you start showing them and they're like, yeah, but what can you do for like 300,000? Where can you perform? Oh, man. Oh, that's what me. It's like I skipped a lot of steps there. And that's where, you know, I credit Steve, my, I guess my partner. He, he wrote his first film for $50,000. His second film for $60,000. Just third film for $300,000. So if they off you $100,000, you're like, kick ass. He's back. You got me. You guys ripped you off. He, he's been writing. He wrote two features that he's been kind of thinking on. And one of them, which is the one he wanted to do next, was probably closer to like the million dollar range. But he started talking to some people and we got an opportunity to make his most recent film, which we just shot, it's called 825 Forest Road. And the budget's not a million dollars, but it's somewhere in between. And it's like, he says it to me all the time. He's like, you, he's like, you upgrade ideas. He's like, you just need to make sure that you're not writing too big for what you actually can afford at this point in time. Because again, I think I'm such a nostalgic person. So I think it's like, it's like, you can show people that you can make one movie. And then all of them will throw money at you and it's like, that's not how it works. Well, here's also the thing. I mean, it falls in like, you know, working on set and like your daily rates. If you do a movie for, I don't know, $50,000, then the students can be like, well, that was good. You can do another movie for $50,000. You know, like how much is that? You're asking like, I need a little bit. Exactly. Like we were probably taught when we were younger. It's like, if you can make a movie for $50,000 and make a lot of money off of that movie and let's say bring in $250,000, the thought processes, what can that director do if I give them $500,000? Will they be able to bring in $2.5 million? And that's what it's always been. But now it's kind of in a model because there's so much content out there. It's like, oh, you did that for $50,000. Let's tell everyone that we're giving a million dollars that we're cutting their budgets in half. Oh, Lord. They should be able to do it for less. Look what these guys did for $50,000. Yeah. That's an auction. I'm going to be able to do a movie for $50,000. Yeah. And you know, the pandemic did not help. Obviously, people died. That's the most important thing. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing in terms of the industry is it didn't help because all of these people that were kind of in these like mid-low range budgets that were kind of getting into like mid-range budgets of working on things, that model doesn't work anymore because theaters want to weigh. So it's like, in horror, for instance, the only reason why you should be making a horror movie for a million dollars or $2 million plus is because you have a theatrical distribution attached to it or you have an A-list like after it. That's a star, yeah. If you're doing anything else, you're not making your money back if you're making a movie for a million dollars. But you're not. You're just not making it. You need to make a movie for $200,000 and potentially make one or $2 million off of that. Yeah, it's not a, things are constantly changing because of streaming, because of the pandemic and a lot of the different things. So I'm curious to see where it's going to go next, but yeah, it's a- Well, we know it's not going anywhere because people are, no matter what happens, people are always going to watch movie shows and their taming. People are going to want to watch their tiger kings, right? Yeah. Yeah. You want to be distracted in the world. Yeah, seriously, distraction. And the other thing, the other thing that I, because that was all one thing, not two things, the other thing I would say is don't be afraid to like be open to like new things. Like I can tell you, I never enjoyed found footage films. I saw Blair Witch when it first came out. I didn't like it. It kind of made me sick. I saw paranormal activity when it came out. I loved it. I thought paranormal activity was phenomenal. And I never really watched a lot of found footage films. And Steve brought me on to produce Hell House. I started getting into the found footage lore. And three films later, I pretty much were seeing almost every single found footage film out there and I have a much different appreciation for it. But, you know, I was always like, I'm a narrative guy. I'm a narrative guy. I'm a narrative guy. In making the Hell House movies, I got an opportunity to direct a documentary. And I'm saying thing, I like, I've always been like, I'm a narrative fiction guy. I'm a narrative fiction guy. Documentaries are good, but I don't really love documentaries. And in the last three or four years, all I've been doing is watching documentaries. And I'm like, these are great. So, but I never would have said I'd make a found footage movie. I never would have said I'd make a documentary. And like, I'm going to guess that Hell House is the movie that I was a part of that has probably been seen by the most people. The documentary comes out next week. And I would venture to guess that movie is going to be seen by a lot of people because it's a documentary about paranormal activity. Oh, no shit. Wow. Wow. I didn't want to see that one because I thought it was the way I love paranormal activity. Yeah. And I really impressed with their return of investment, man. Would they spend like $15,000? $15,000 movie? Yeah. When it's funny. Yeah. It's funny. This isn't in the movie. Billions? I cut this part out of the movie because I was told not to put it in, but they kind of joke that like the $15,000 that they actually spent on the movie, most of it was the filmmaker Ornpelli redoing his house and like putting wood flooring, putting in a banister, buying a computer with editing software, buying a camera. So like most of that budget is that like really the-- Not even Tora's production. Just like-- The production budget was like 4 grand or something like that. Oh, damn. Well, that was production design, wasn't it? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, true. No order to put that money. That's great writing, man. That's the thing. You have a blank page. No order to put the money to make a good story based on the budget. Yep. Yeah. That's how I always write my script. I mean, I don't write. Obviously, I don't write things with like a submarine or like a mechanical shark that would break down every five seconds or like, you know, a helicopter because those are just $100 million that I'll never see that nobody will ever give me. So I always write according to budget. I'm like, OK, let's see what we can do with like one location and great dialogue and like a couple actors. You guys both live in LA, right? Yeah. Where are you guys originally from? You're from Arizona, right, Charles? Yeah. Well, I was born in Los Angeles, but I was raised in Arizona. Gotcha. And where are you from? Born and raised in the city of Angels. OK, then never mind. I was going to say, where are you? One of the things-- I'm from New Jersey. So one of the things that I will say is like beneficial is I can shoot stuff in New Jersey that I can't shoot now away. I can shoot stuff where I grew up that I can't shoot in New York because you were gonna get a production value like like in the Hell House movie we did an entire sequence where there's 150 people in this haunted house and there's this shit going wrong and all these different groups are going crazy and they let run outside and the ambulance shows up the fire truck show up the police show up we did this whole sequence which if we didn't LA or New York would probably have cost us two or three million dollars and we did this whole thing for free because of where we shot it we shot it in a town of people who were like so excited that people wanted to shoot a movie in their town so they were like we'll do anything like the part of this let us be an extra the cops were like yeah well like can we can we like arrest someone in the movie like no but with the ambulance you can bring out the body bags of people with the EMTs and they're like yeah 100% and like the only thing I think the only thing was the fire department was like well were the only fire truck in the town so like if an fire takes place we have to leave but otherwise so we got a ton of production value and like shooting in small towns in this country and shooting in places like that you'll get a much better bang for your buck in terms of production value by shooting and I've heard of that because people in LA it's like we know we know what movies are we see trailers blocking our streets all the time and they're like well where's my money yeah we've got so many stories about like the neighbors coming into the set saying I want you guys to leave where is your permit all this stuff and like but people from like Jersey or like Ohio or like in the middle of nowhere don't know what like yeah I'm sorry but guys let us shoot in your town for free no but seriously because they think it's so cool and we're and yeah so that's awesome I've heard of I tell you what where I'm from Mesa they didn't want movies to be there I'll tell you why why because we had a film incentive now and we're trying to get it I know why they're in the area like New Mexico close area who Mexico's good but this was like laughing the face because they're like hey we're gonna get a film incentive we're gonna build a studio and I remember seeing Blueprints of the studio I'm like great there's a hope nobody said anything because they didn't get the position so but we what we did we got a whole the people because we're like let's let's push towards this let's make a video you know and like get interviews from people because we were very well known in the film industry in Arizona it was small so we got interviews from people that were actually working actors directors and we even got a hold while you just get a hold of like the film whoever does film out here and we found the film office and Tucson an hour away from us they showed up at our little thing because they got we're like hey we heard you guys we do like a little event to like help promote the film incentive to get signed that we're gonna edit and send in or whatever and they showed up and there was three I love everyone but they're like hippies they were like the some of the three of the dirtiest people I've ever met like hey where's the food coalition coalition we're the ones that try to get the we're trying to get the incentive and all this stuff and I'm like you guys are what I'm like you guys help us to like we'll support you and they sat there and this like talk to us given us good company and then we got a serious conversation with them and then we spoke to joint and they're like all right thanks guys thanks again and for your help and I'm like what just happened here I like that I hear like that you're like man these fucking people are weirdos let me see they were like they're weirdos they're all we haven't filmed to get this thing I left that's crazy you left you just left I just left I'm going back to LA yeah oh my god yeah I brought back to memories but anyways you you have the really good information that would really like to like pick a little bit one thing is distribution and return of investment for the movies that you make of course we all want to make money like you know make money yeah blame blame make it movies or have a comfortable living you know what I mean how is your return of investment for these films how do you like set that up like do you make a living from directing or you live in that dream be filled yeah I mean I'm almost there I'm not fully there yet but like I I think I think the projects that like like I get paid pretty regularly from three hellhouse movies and the um and it's called cabin fear from the movie that I directed I get paid regularly from all four of those so visuals so so when you what do you say is it residuals is that what is no no it's I like I'm the like I own percentages of all of them so like like cabin fear I own the biggest percentage of and that's obviously the one of the four that does the worst but the other three movies I own percentages of so I'm getting paid regularly from the distributor from the sales agent but it's it's yeah I mean the good thing is and this is how I think indie filmmakers like will it's it's not necessarily residuals it's more of just making your return because of the percentage or however back and however many points you own on it but like if you make so I think this is you guys know Troma right the the horror trauma oh Troma no yeah they're like the horror film in the horror company in New York they make horror films are like $15,000 they did toxic avenger like they do like really really cheap movies they're probably like our asylum yeah but they bang them out they bang them out so like the guy who owns it is making a ton of money because these are movies getting seen all the time and he makes money off of all of them so I guess that's kind of the way if you're making small independent films and you are working on the creative side of things is make sure you get your points because over time you know 10 years down the line you're getting paid from five or six or seven movies regularly and that's kind of that's kind of the way to go especially if you're gonna start saying no to other jobs if you want to write if you want to direct you want to produce that's what you're doing and you shouldn't be doing that stuff like you shouldn't necessarily be doing that stuff for free because everyone needs to eat but like you could say no to a paycheck but say yes to points and again I know probably in the 90s and the 2000s everyone was like I'll take the points because it's like these are gonna get seen and then they're went through like a wave where it was like yeah most people feel like I'm working on this movie they're offering you points no we're gonna fucking see this I'll never get points on this but now you're in a market where people probably can like it's easier to self distribute we did that for the original Hell House movie and we made a ton off of Amazon so Amazon changes Amazon changes their models since then so you don't make you don't make that much money anymore if you have any ins like if you know anybody in like Amazon in these studios or you just like nope just just a couple couple kids going for it yeah yeah we didn't have anyone that's why like the Hell House story is such a great story because it's like we didn't know anyone we didn't have any connections we just put it out there and it just got a following and people just kind of latched onto it which was great that's what's up you just gotta do it get that first one done yeah yeah yeah but like I said different experiences I know people have made their first homes and they bond and they never direct again like it's it happens people should on you for things especially like directors aren't actors like you can you can act in something and be bad in it and next week act in something else and it'd be great in it if you're making a feature and you're directing you you're gonna make you know one movie every like three years every four years five years like James Cameron it's about 15 years yeah exactly and I think Malik about 20 years I think directors that are like of like the best directors of our time like Quentin Tarantino or Martin Scorsese like they really only make like 10 to 20 films like in their entire career so you know by that standard I've already made six so yeah yeah you a hundred million dollars if you do Irish man I bet you would have done better shit to say that all you're gonna come on set stories podcast and just bash me Robert De Niro was gonna punch you so hard I've had nightmares about Robert just like he did in that team where he looked like a geriatric eating night dude out time to put it oh my god don't even I told I called him robot De Niro about De Niro he wrote like a robot while doing it yep crazy he's gonna hate me I was gonna say poor guy but no not really poor guy I'm not really nice oh my god well do I have to say it Charles well I'm looking at zoom and it says it says sick of the 40-minute time oh okay I thought I said stick with the stick with the 40-minute time limit it's like I'm king for this I don't know what you're talking about I thought I said stick with the I think I'm just like sick I can't see these glasses oh my god Joe well I have to say it but that's a wrap on your up so damn it man I wanted to pick his brain more because he's like bro like the way you're going I like the way you're going about doing your films yeah because that's the way that I I was told by valid sources distribution you know and like working with the but I'm not trying to write it direct I just wanted you know it's you know I'm a cinematographer I just want to shoot I know and like do set stories but it's the same kind of thing I guess but directing like getting out there directing I love talking to them because first of all some talk for you guys are like mine clients I want you know one gets hired me so in third of all you know I just want to know the process because I would like to eventually direct in you know one day yeah yeah yeah successfully 100% I mean listen every every single cliche you've ever heard is a hundred percent true like hard work determination patch and all that kind of shape you're right it's a hundred percent true but there's also luck you know you got it like you got to meet the right people you got to kind of put yourself in that position and yeah at the end of the day like I always talk to people about like people who invest in real estate and people invest in stocks and Bitcoin and all that other kind of stuff like when you're a film like you're investing in yourself like here hopefully you don't go sin bad and go broke but you're investing in your thought. - I'm missing him. - But you are in essence, like that's your investment, your films, your, their, your babies. That's what you're putting your money on and hoping that, you know, it gets you the next job and the next job. You're, I think it's foolish for anyone to think that they're gonna make a movie that's gonna make a billion dollar franchise like Paramurimal activity. I think if you go into things thinking that's what you're gonna do, you're probably already failing. But I also, I have really good friends in the industry who are the exact opposite. I have one good friend that I work with a lot. He always tells me that his goal is to direct better than Stanley Kubrick. And that's how he is every single time. And I tell him, you're not ever gonna be him. Like, I can't believe you, I can't believe you're into someone like that. I thought he was really in it. So it's the same thing to me, but Alfred Hitchcock and I just shut up for the red card. - And it's like, well, here's the thing, like I understand their motivation. It's like, achieve to be better than the best. And that's what you're going for. And I always say this, I get that. I understand that my place in the film industry, I am not making movies to show everyone that I'm better than someone else. That is not what, and I'm not saying that's what my friends are doing. I'm just saying, I am not looking at other people's work and being like, I can do that better. I can be better than that. That's not what I'm doing. I am in this industry for one reason. It's when I was a kid and things sucked. Things weren't good in life. When things weren't good at home, I went to a movie theater and I could escape. And whether it was being scared or crying or laughing or whatever, I could escape. And as I know, it's a very selfish industry. But what I tell myself is if I can give that to someone just for a second, it's all worth it. So unfortunately, unfortunately, we are in an industry that like money and fame do come with success. So it's hard to be like, I'm successful, but no one knows who I am or I'm successful and I've never made any money. Unfortunately, those things are tied together. But yeah, I-- I'm going to use-- He can do any of that. Exactly. Oh my god, Joe, seriously, it's been like such a-- I am loving this season. We've had such good people on the show and Joe, you're one of them. So thank you, Amy. Thanks, Amy, for coming. Thank you so much. Thank you, Amy. Just wish for your wisdom. I knew you were going to be legit because Amy was hell legit. I was like, man, girl, like, this season New York and shit. I'm like, yeah, you're in New York doing big things, man. Yeah. Yeah. You just go swimming down. Do you work with-- do you know a company called Do All Camera? I do, yeah. I love those guys. I used to work with them a ton when I was-- when I was actually shooting film in New York. Really? Yeah, I used to do a bunch of stuff using that. I like those guys. Yeah, they were great, but obviously I don't use them as much anymore, because, hey, I moved to the West Coast. Are they even here? I'm sure they are, right? They're in Jersey. Oh, OK. Got it. Never mind. Yeah. And also, again, not to beat a dead horse here, but when I started making movies, it was all like, I have to understand how to like it. I have to understand how to shoot it. I have to understand all that kind of stuff. I have one phenomenal cinematographer that I usually work with, and I've met a couple others that I'm going to work with. Really? I try not to get into that world. I try to stay away from like, I want to accomplish something. I'm going to talk to my team and be like, well, you think we need to accomplish this, because I feel like you can't do any of this stuff alone. You have to have a good group of people around you. You have to have a good team. Yeah. Nobody's talking to me. So exactly. Yeah, awesome. Well, Joe, I hope you had a good time. I did. This was great. I'm glad you guys, thanks for going over the 50-minute mark and letting me chat with you. Oh, man, of course. That's OK. When we have the guests that we like, and we want to talk to more, we keep them on. Longer. Beautiful. And since you told me when this is coming out, the film that I just directed will be out by the time. So everyone who's listening, go listen to Unknown Dimension, the story of paranormal activity. It'll be on Paramount Plus from October 29th. Nice. Oh my god, I'm so excited. Thank you. That's amazing. And can people find you on Instagram if they want to follow you? Yeah, yeah. I'm on Facebook. My name. I'm on Instagram. Instagram. The chosen Joey. Nice and simple. I love it. I love it. You want to know why the chosen Joey? It's really stupid reason. I want to know why then. So I think my first ever tag or screen name or whatever when I was in AOL back in the day was like Willie 1311, but there's one eye and the E is capitalized and it was kind of a thing off the ground to keep her willy. It was a weird thing. Yes. And I remember in college, I remember being a freshman, I remember going to parties, and I remember people being like, I went to a lot of the movies. And when I went to college, was when Facebook started. I was a freshman when Facebook started. And I remember people being like, what's your screen name, what's your aim screen name, what's that kind of stuff. And I remember being like drunk and loud, like fraternity party, like setting me like, Willie 1311, and I remember sitting there and I'm like, what the fuck? And then I was like, just going to calm myself the chosen Joey. I'm like, I like Mortal Kombat, chosen one. There you go. I'm going to call myself the chosen Joey. And then I would go to parties and to be like, what's your tag? And I'd be like, the chosen Joey ever. That's me. That's me. Right. I remember my AIM username. What was it? It was hoodie loves H2O. I mean, I guess I loved water. Sure. I still drink it to this day. You know, I'm a water alcoholic. Water. Water. Yeah. You've been spitting facts for a year. I just want to get a collection of all your bad joke, Tudy. Just like edit them together. I'll take that as a compliment. I guess so. Well, to wrap this episode guys, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, set_stories_podcast. And we have a website setstories.com where you could buy merch, all the good stuff. Thank you so much for listening guys. Have a happy holiday. Happy New Year. Hope 2022 is better than 2020 and 2021 combined. Hopefully it will be. Keep making movies. Be kind. Stay positive. We love you guys. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you.