Season 2 - Episode 6 : The impact of culture on work relationships

Welcome back everyone to a new episode of red flags, green flags, modern psychology for everyday drama. In season two, we are focusing on work relationships, specifically looking at red and green flags in the workplace. As most of our time is consumed by our job or profession, workplace conflicts are an inescapable part of everyday life. Now the aim of this season is to help you better understand the drama that happens at work and to provide you deep insights to why people behave the way they do. Also we will discuss different strategies on how to deal with workplace drama from working with difficult colleagues and managers to surviving toxic work environments. By using a psychological lens to interpret real life experiences at work, we can gain better insights on how best to navigate the complexity of a modern workplace. In today's episode, we will be talking about intercultural management and the red and green flags to watch out for when viewing behaviors through an intercultural lens. We all know that managing people is very different than managing tasks. But how does culture play a role in influencing one's management style and behavior? The role of culture has a huge influence on how people manage others and what people believe is acceptable behavior. Being in a country like the UAE, where there are so many cultures working together, it can be hard to manage others effectively. We will explore what some of the challenges are of being a good manager here in the region, in Dubai, and of course the wider and at least, and we will also explore other management styles in different parts of the world. What are some red flags and green flags of bad and good management behaviors and which strategies can we recommend to improve work relationships in a diverse workplace? So joining me on my podcast today to talk about the cultural aspects of management is Muhammad al-Hakim, a strategic procurement expert with over 15 years of experience in the supply chain field in the UAE. Muhammad, welcome to the podcast here in Dubai, great to have you on my show. Thank you so much for having me, Dr. and I'm honored to be sitting here in front of you today and to touch upon such an interesting topic. Super, thank you for being here, absolute honor. So before we get started with the show and I'm going to ask you many, many questions of course about management specifically here in the Middle East, why don't you introduce yourself to the audience, tell them who you are, what you do, where you're from. So my name is Muhammad al-Hakim, I'm from UAE and so I started my career in supply chain when I used to work for Emirates airline engineering, before that I used to work in the bank and so I had an up and down so till the age of 23 and 24 I was working here and there and jumping from multiple jobs due to various reasons and coming down I will disclose some of the reasons why I jumped so many jobs so I kick off my career and became a little bit serious with my career when I joined Emirates Airlines, Emirates engineering where I used to look at the performance of the suppliers and the contracts from a procurement point of view. So I worked there for five years and when I was working there so gradually I was taking steps so I started low and slowly slowly I ended up having 40 people reporting into me with four different groups and if you know the engineering environment it's mainly male driven and high volume, high pitch, everything is very loud. So I used to work in office or we used to have an airside and then we used to have a landside. So I used to work at the building first, so first two years was amazing, flowers, everything I used to go and work dressed up like this clean. Then I got promoted and then I went towards the landside where they used to repair the aircrafts and believe me this one survived there even an hour to be honest doctor. So I worked there and later on I reached to the level where I thought that I need new challenges. So I started exploring and then I got a call from Abu Dhabi and before it used to be known as Farah experiences, now it is called morale experiences, they manage a lot of theme parks. So you can see the industry switch from very technical and very OEM driven and zero mistakes to complete shift towards the entertainment side where everybody is chilled, not chilled from the back of office but it is an entertainment which you put smiles on people faces. So very different kind of industry to work in, right? Exactly. The office environment is completely different as well and the interaction with people is completely different as well. Because before I used to deal with my team consists of almost 60 to 70% were male. And only 20 to 25% were only working in the aviation sector because when I went down towards the engineering side of it where we used to work on the reverse applied chain of the materials for the repairs of the aircraft. It was very male dominant and we could speak to each other freely. And I created a very interpersonal relationship, I created the very personal bonds with these guys and they were all young. And then when I moved towards the entertainment industry, believe me, it was the first three or four months I was just reading people like am I going to say something wrong or because you're paying attention to things. Yes. I was on observant, like I was observant, it really used to drain my energy because if I cannot be myself, I get tired very fast, like drain energy. And I have to put on that corporate face because it's all like how do you say blue-collar people and anything you say can be perceived differently. But we're in the aviation industry, I used to joke around. There were days like I used to hang out, we used to party with my stuff. And that was also a problem, once you get personally connected to your stuff, then they sometimes forget the boundary as well to perform. And then when you put on that manager head, they were like, it's hard to accept that again. What happened to him? Are you not in the mood, I have to finish the job and you have to perform a task, we have to finish those. Excellent. So I just stopped here because I just wanted to kind of get a brief introduction. But what you've explained so far is you kind of explained your overall, your career involvement and how you've changed industry. But also what I really like what you said was that when you moved into a new industry, you showed that kind of emotional intelligence of observing and being more mindful of what you say and thinking twice before you say something. Yes. So I think that was great. We'll get more into the details of that. So before we go a little bit further into talking about management styles here in the UE, I also like to ask personal questions. And here's one personal question I'd like to ask you. It's like, how would you describe your management style? I've kind of got a bit of a taste of it right now, but how would you describe your management style? From the look of it, when people look at me, I have a straight face, which doesn't help me, to be honest. But to be honest, to describe my management style would be, it would be friendly. I just become friends with people. And if I cannot become friend, then I keep a very professional space between the people and me and which reflects that how would they perceive me because I don't want to cross that line. So there are instances like when people perceive me wrong, so I tell them clearly, please let me know if I'm crossing a line. If I cross the line, you just either stop me right there and then, or take me on a side and tell me. I'll be mindful of it. So you're saying that your management style is more of a friendly social wanting to build strong relationships with people that you work with, and what do you see the benefit of that is? What have you seen in the past? That's been a benefit of building strong relationships that work for you. To be honest, it is a high performance team, which I have seen it with my first-hand experience. People are willing to do the tasks which are not even part of their job description. And I have experienced it first-hand, even here with my current job as well as in the previous organization as well. But if I come as in, oh, that I am the boss, and then you have to obey me. With the younger generation, especially, it is going to be a, no, it doesn't work. They're going to be like, they can literally, plus after the pandemic as well, they can literally say, no, I'm tired to deal with this there. I have to say that gone are the days that people will be told what to do, right? Yes. Because maybe 30 years, 20 years ago, people's values about what work is and what it means to them and their life has changed. Not only for the younger generation nowadays, but I think the pandemic has also had a huge impact on how people view work, especially because now work-life balances become a very hot topic for a lot of people and people take care of parents, people take care of maybe an elder or have a cat or dog nowadays, they want to take care of multiple reasons. And so one thing that I see happen a lot is that a lot of people don't feel as resilient anymore also. Well, resilience is not as big word, but maybe don't want to put in the extra effort to go the extra mile, which is so important when you're working in a high performance team. And so there is that evaluation that people put into much more that they have now about their work than they had in the past. But that's interesting. So when you talk about high performance teams and building strong relationships and creating a positive climate in that environment where people, you want them to go the extra mile, you want them to kind of, well, extra mile, I think that's a bit of a way of describing it. Giving their all, I think that's really important, having a positive climate. What else do you do to ensure that people want to work through their best, want to really show up and be motivated? Is there anything else that you do in your management style or approach that really makes something to give their all in the workplace? The first thing comes to my mind is lead by an example. And if you want, if, for example, I want something to be done, I will do it first myself. So at least my team, they can look at me first. So they don't feel shame by performing that task. I have cleaned the floors of the repair hangers. And I don't feel shy in doing this. And when my team looked at it, and there were people from other teams, they were willing to come to work with you, rather than working with their own managers. Which shows that the autocrat style, which they're like, okay, I'm the boss, you have to do top down, it doesn't work with some people. People will absorb it because they have bills to pay, they will absorb it, but deep down, they won't accept it. They won't be happy. And so that's a great example what you give, the more laissez-faire, supportive, serving leadership style versus that of the top down, more controlling style. Is your management style very common here in the Middle East or in the UAE, or do you see also other management styles that are very common in the workplace? I have seen couple of management styles, when my current position now is there are people who are like, when you reach to a certain level, like the power, like the power can corrupt the brain. Yeah. So it's really, if it's my way or highway. So I've seen this first hand, and I'm experiencing it first hand as well. So like in UAE especially now with the cultural change which is happening around us, it's moving very fast. And to preserve that family, because for us family is number one, like family, like generosity and then looking after people, it's the first thing. But with the pace which we are moving on, it's really to preserve that, so it's like to balance it. It's very challenging, it's very challenging. Because we as an Emirati culture, we are very accommodating. And then I've seen that. I've experienced that. Like we will greet you, if you come to my home, I will make sure that you put on like five to six kilos. It starts with a coffee. And then the dates and then the food. Exactly. So it's like, this is in our culture, but now with the fast pists and the environment and the business which we are trying to achieve, to keep up with this is very difficult. So I like, I like that you mentioned that, so I didn't think about it that way. So in one way, you know, you try to preserve certain values that you, you know, and you're talking about family values, cultural values that you also try to bring back. And then again, at the same time, you're saying that those values are being challenged by how fast things are happening and how agile you need to be and, you know, how forward thinking you need to be. And that maybe sometimes those values hold you back from being as, as quick. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. A simple example would be, personally, I love to take my team. In a week, two or three times, we go to lunch down to the park, either to hotel or to the mall. And, which slows their work down? Some people, they literally tells me then, like, one of my staff, she's like, I have a lot of work. Yeah. I would love to come. Yeah. But I cannot because I have a lot of work. I'm like, if you have a lot of work, why you didn't tell me, I will help you out. Like, no, it's not that a lot of work, but it requires a lot of attention. Right. So I'm out with lunch for one hour, one and a half hour with you, it's going to consume my time. Right. And then I'll not be able to leave early. I'm like, no, you have a family. You have to leave early. Even though if you have your lunch, I'm going to bring it to you. Yeah. Like, this is in our culture. I can't, I can't stop myself not to have that personal connection because when they are with you on, on the table, they speak freely. Right. And then I feel one of them. Yeah. You're right. Yes. Interesting. You know, what I thought was also very interesting that you mentioned is that how sometimes power can corrupt people, and it's true if you look into the science that when people, they rise in power and organizations, they achieve a higher position and what can happen is that power psychologically can change the way you think and also change the way you feel. And so it's interesting that sometimes if we've come from an environment where we've always been suppressed and all of a sudden now we've been given power, sometimes those kind of suppressed feelings can come out and then people can express those feelings onto other people or treat people in a different way. So I like that you mentioned that because with gaining more power and a higher position and stronger position within an organization, there comes a huge responsibility with that. And not everyone deals effectively. Can I ask you, because you said that you've seen that experience to that, how did you deal with very power driven, highly controlling, maybe sometimes aggressive managers, how did you deal with that? When I first had experienced that, to be honest, I couldn't breathe properly because I had to suppress my feelings and to put on that corporate mask and basically to keep my mouth close rather than something wrong is going to come out even though if he's sitting higher the CEO. So I try to avoid such kind of conflict because I have bills to pay as well. So I protect your family and your brother, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I have to absorb and it's a cut-drop culture when you go up, so sometimes I think that, okay, he's acting in such kind of way or she's acting in such kind of way, might be, I don't know the complete context around it, but the games are playing or on the higher level because of course it's always the case. I don't associate with those kind of games a lot. I try to pull myself out of the loop. That's why I'm neither side, I'm on my team side, neutral side, yeah, it's very difficult to maintain the neutral side. If he's your boss, you have to agree with him, right, yes. But you also find ways how to navigate that, right, yeah, yeah. So yeah, maybe also because of the personal relationships that you build because sometimes when we bring it back to power, power is not something only that is given to you based on position, but you might also have what's called personal or connection power, and you can have power by people who you know in the organization outside of the direct command and control, like the hierarchy of your boss and their bosses, you can be connected to other people. So the more connection you have, the more power you might also have in terms of being protected or being supported or promoted. And then sometimes this also something called expert power or information power. So if you hold a lot of information or you're an expert in a certain field that is very valuable or critical to the organization, then that also kind of gives you some kind of protection and an authority in the organization, right. So yeah, so maybe that's what you've also done. Maybe you've built power in different ways because you know that you can't go directly against your boss, you find other ways to diffuse it. And then there is something called we have it in here in UAE, which you put it in right words. As a doctor is Wasta. Wasta. Exactly. Can you explain to the audience because a lot of people don't know what Wasta means? What is Wasta and why is that important? Wasta is completely, depending on who you know and the information what you can achieve, just on a phone call. For example, if I have any issue, I'll pick up the phone, I know a guy let me call my connection. So it's basically as simple as a connection, how socially active you are and how much social credit you have between among the people you know. So that is generally called Wasta. And then for example, I'm looking for a job, you have a position over there, let me call my connection. So if you have Wasta, the higher the Wasta you have, the stronger, the better connection you have. Yes. Yes. I like how you call that social credit, right? Often it's what they say here in the Middle East is that you need to invest into 10 relationships to get one Wasta, you know, output out of it. And so a lot of people spend a lot of their time here building social connections during work and outside of work because it's a way of just making sure that you can leverage yourself. And it's an interesting point, right? That Wasta is really, really important. I've been here many years in the UAE and I've seen, you know, I've seen how important investing in Wasta is. And again, you know, people think, well, Wasta, you know, is that right or is that fair? Look, everyone has the importance of social connections is important everywhere. In China, it's called Guangxi, you know, in Japan, June cuts to you and other countries around the world. They have their other meaning, you know, the other ways of kind of elaborating the importance of your network. You say your network is your net worth, right? Yes. In that perspective. And so, like you said, oh, I lost the job. Okay. I'm going to get fired. Well, for some people who are not local, you're local, but a lot of people that are not local, they'll have to leave their country, leave the country to go back if they don't have another job. And so in that context, having that social connection is really important. But there's maybe also a downside to that, right? And when we bring it back to management style. So let's say, for example, you call your friend up and you say, hey, baby, how are you doing? I'm doing well. I said, listen, I've just got fired. He said, no, no, no worries, no worries. I have a new job for you. You can be the new manager over here. But sometimes the new manager over here is because of that friendship, that kinship, right? But it doesn't always mean that you have the right competencies. Yes. And have you experienced that? Have you seen that people have been given jobs that, you know, because of the social connection, but don't have the skill sets and it might have had a negative impact on the work environment? And to be honest, I have done it. I have hired people because of foster, but the connection, the skill sets can be taught at the job. Like whenever I'm onboarding someone, just want you to know that, okay, whatever happens in the back, happened. Now you have a clean slate, new page, you're coming from, let's say, XYZ or you're coming in from Dr. Ali Fanwick-Sight, so you called me and said, "Mohamed, this is the guy I want you to hire him. He's good, but he has done something wrong." So he got fired or he lost his job due to company whatever it is. So once you will refer him to me, of course, you have like a greater place, like we are connecting on many levels, for sure that guy is going to get hired. And people tend to have a lot of connection with, they say a lot of foster, they will never jeopardize their team because their name is much more important than the person itself. Then the person itself. And it depends how close that person is to you as well. Right. Now, I'm really happy you share this with the world because a lot of people, the audience is very international and in some countries they say, "Well, that's not fair, you know, why is that, but that's part of this region, that's part of the culture and how things happen here. It happens in Turkey, but it also happens in Anglo-Saxon environment, such as the U.S. and in the UK, but it's not spoken of, right? And I think that's, and I think in the Middle East, it is spoken of. That's just kind of a way of managing and dealing with the business environment and social relationships, but it also happens all around the world. Some are more explicit about it. This is how it works. And some are less explicit, but they still do it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that that often does not get said. And people are easy to point fingers, "Well, that's not fair. You should hire on the basis of competency." I agree. You should hire on the basis of competencies, but we also have to look into how, how businesses really run, you know, and bringing that to life. But also, I can also see the issues that relates to that when you hire people that are not as competent, right? And that does have a huge impact. So maybe we can touch upon very briefly about, you know, being effective manager and the skill set. You know, some managers just get hired, or sometimes because there's nobody else, right? You get hired because no one else is in your organization, but you don't have the right skill set to be an effective manager. How is that solved here in the specific part of the world? And this specific part of the world, there is, I have, like, I have work on multiple jobs. The skill set can be taught, but the personal, the personal behavior, for example, recently we had a head of a department coming in from Canada. He was French Canadian. He brought him all the way from Quebec in Canada. And the only, he was, he have zero skills in Middle East now. He had been working in Canada and oil and gas company. And we brought him to the managed entertainment business and the supply chain of it. The skill set, he was able to adopt within first month of the, when he joined. So this is the system. The housework, these are the workflows, these are the policies, one, two, three, and right there and then. But the cultural aspect, he missed it. And today he's not with us. He couldn't complete his probation period because of the cultural and the behavior aspect of it. Like the way he was speaking to the female colleagues and the male colleagues and the language which he was using. So it affects a lot, like the skill set is okay, but the behavioral part of it and the cultural part of it here, especially in Middle East, it's, it's number one priority. And maybe you can give some examples, I think this is an interesting case study. So what, what did he miss out on? What was he not picking up on, for example, which is specific to this region that he was not able to grasp? For example, our team is multicultural, right? He couldn't grasp about, like, yeah, there was a good example of, oh, he said it out loud that, oh, you are Balkan, that's why. You're Balkan? Yeah. Okay. So we can't say these things, there's an actual law for it. You can't say to someone about the rationality, like categorizing it, oh, yeah, you are Filipino. Oh, no, you are Indian. He's like, you are Balkan and she got offended and she got offended. Rightly so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then what else he, what else was the major issue, yeah, there was another one. He said that, oh, I'm coming in from Canada because you know, it is our, our structure of organizations are hierarchy-driven. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes my boss is going to send me one line of email and look, I can't accept this, this is delayed and I know from where he's coming in from. But he said that, oh, if this would be back in Canada, this is going to be an HR issue for him. Yeah. Get it. Yeah. So the difference between hierarchy and flat cultures, let's say, interesting, interesting. So he was not able to understand the hierarchy and the power distance, as they call that, right in culture, the power distance between the manager and the employee and how do you respond to that? I think that's very understandable. And the person who was sending that email, he's having a very good waspah. Right. That's why he couldn't survive there as well. Okay. Yeah. So waspah can be used in positive as well as in negative as well. Right. Yeah. Okay. And I find that very, you know, kind of, you know, like the cultural aspect of management is invisible, right? You don't always, you don't always see it. And I think when we hire people as being, to be in a manager, sometimes we look at them purely from a technical perspective and say, you know, managers are great because they have the technical expertise. But when you're dealing with a multicultural environment, which is very diverse and look the UAE, as you mentioned already, is extremely diverse in that perspective. You need to be culturally sensitive. You need to be able to navigate the intricacies of how this environment works. And again, the UAE is not Saudi Arabia, it's not Kuwait, it's very different in itself, right? As you mentioned, it's a melting pot with a lot of people coming here. So respect for different cultures is extremely important. And I think that's one thing that really, you know, as I started to come here and be more engaged in, you know, working wise. And I started to see, hey, there is this, you know, you need to be aware of your environment. You need to be aware of different cultures. And, you know, I've worked, I've worked, you know, for example, people from India and, you know, in the Netherlands, it's, you know, where I originally come from, it's all about everything is laissez faire, it's kind of like everyone you should treat equally and respectfully. And I remember having a conversation with one of my Indian colleagues, peers. And he said, you know, yes, that works well maybe in your country, but in India, like sometimes you really, because he's also a boss of people, a manager of people, so I need to show I'm the boss. And I have to say this because otherwise they won't respect me. And that's really interesting and not understanding those kind of, those differences in terms of culture and management style and can really hurt you, right? Especially when you're moving to a new environment, new country, you think that what works for you in one environment is going to work for you in another environment, but that's not always the case. Yes, that's not, that's not Dr. And plus here in UAE, I don't know how, how, how it works in, back in other part of the regions, like different countries, well, in UAE, specifically talking about, yes, there are some instances like people on my level, like there's a new lady got hired and she is reporting to an Indian boss. I think the culture over there, when they try to bring it over here, sometimes it doesn't work. And, but there is some element, which they do about it. For example, she came to me, she was like, I'm on a probation period, you let your stuff to work from home. Yeah. On the probation period. Yeah. Why doesn't he allow me? Yeah. Because he's your boss. What can I do to report to you, I'm like, this is going to create problems for me between me and him now. So it would be much better if you speak to him directly. Yeah. And the way she went and spoke to him, she's like, he's like, why are you asking this? You are on a probation. You should be, you should know it. And the culture, which is coming in from India, for example, they have this like, I'm the boss, you have to write, but it doesn't work over here, it doesn't like. Even here, the police cannot tell you what to do, like, they are so respectful. Yeah. You can go in, even like, I know a couple of girls, they have been living here. I know a teacher, she lived here like for almost 20 years and she was shouting at the police guy and I was sitting beside the car, I'm like, you can't do this, but he's respecting you. And he was so chill about it. Like, Madame, you're angry, blah, blah, blah, and this, and then I'm like, you can't do this. Imagine if you are in the UK, they won't, like, I don't know, if any other part of the world, they will not allow you to speak. Yeah. Because I was in Brazil. Like, I tried to speak to a beautiful lady cop. Her head was up in the sky. This is really good. In a sense of, I think maybe what we could touch upon is, you know, when we talk about these differences, right? Because people come in, they don't have the right understanding yet. What do you do in terms of helping managers to be more effective in the organization, especially around, you know, the intercultural aspects of managing a diverse workforce? Do you support your employees in any way like that as a company, do that? What do you do specifically around that aspect? So onboarding any employee in any organization, especially in UAE, there's a special session about the culture and the do's and the don't, like, you can't extend your hand to shake hand with the girl, unless if she does it. So there are do's and don't, which they, which in the induction programs, they showed and they tell them that, okay, in round one, do not wear revealing clothes, do not drink in front of the people, or do not eat in front of the people, dress, dress, cover your shoulders and all this thing. So there are induction programs and all the organizations they give. Yeah. So I'm aware of it because in each and every place where I work, even as an Emirati as well, I had to attend it. That was these were mandatory programs. Right. Yeah. Thank you for not really. Thank you for that. Because I think that's really important. Because, you know, as you can imagine, we have a diverse audience listening in, different cultures, different perspectives. And for, you know, for what they, you know, what we or you or whoever might see as a green flag, other people then see as a red flag. And they're like, because that cultural lens influences, you know, our evaluation of certain practices and management styles. And I think that's why it's really good that you kind of share with us kind of the intricacies of the local environment. And I like that you talked about the induction program where you get people to get to appreciate the culture. And, you know, again, the UAE is such an open country in that perspective. It's well welcoming to so many different diverse people into this country that, you know, having, but then again, you also have to know how to engage also with the local environment effectively and respectfully. Right. And I think those induction programs are very much necessary. And I think that maybe there's, besides just the cultural induction of the local environment, maybe also more sometimes a business induction style because every organizational environment is different. Even if you come from the same industry, you move to a new country. You work in the same industry, even for the same company, there could be a completely different culture there, right? So understanding those differences and being able to read and observe, I think is really important. And not all managers do that, right? Some people just come in, default thinking, they come in and they say, okay, this is how I'm going to do things. I've been successful out there, but it doesn't work over here, right? So that's something that we need to be more mindful of. And there's a lot of managers listening now, maybe transitioning to a new position. I think this is also very interesting and very effective for them to start thinking about their own styles and what they might need to change. Let's talk a little bit more about management styles here in the UAE or specifically in an organization. Like, you know, sometimes bad managers are effective, right? And there's something called the Peter Principle in organizational behavior. And that the Peter Principle means that you are promoted to your level of incompetence. So basically, at your level of incompetence, you should not be promoted any more unless you have Wasta. But sometimes we do see managers that are not effective managers. And so examples are people that micromanage or manage is that they take credit of other people's work, you know, managers that sometimes also move the goalposts. They promise you this, but then you get the target and then they move it away. Yes. Give me some examples of bad management styles that you've seen in the workplace. Or I have plenty, we should be here for two hours. So I will start with the people who just stepped into their management roles. So I know a girl, she just, she just became ahead of the team. And she came in from very low and then work her way off to the management level, to the executive level. So she is in the team and the team, there are people sitting in the team. They have much more experience than her in procurement. It's just that she got, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say like she got hired because she was a female because we are diversifying our team and all this stuff. The problem when I see in her, she is micromanaging the team. For example, the same team has reported to me as well, now we have, because I'm completing my studies, so I was like, I just want to give up on some of the responsibility. She's on board. These people are going to report to her. So the people who are already working with me, they were, they have been like 80% of my job is like autonomy. I don't even ask until and unless there is a disaster. So they have to notify you. So I provide them with such type of autonomy. You are the decision maker, so they feel responsible for what they are doing. Now she came in and the first thing first is like, oh you, you are coming late to work. I have never told anyone that you are coming late to work. As long as they are performing, I need performance. I don't need their time sitting either on the computer. It's like, yeah, but if I have gone through this much and achieved, they will be able to do the same. I've told her clearly, not everybody is here to grow. People are here to enjoy their life as well. So not everything should be like, oh no, it is there on the time. It should be there. Everything should be on the time and she is micromanaging even though like all their live approvals should go through her and then she created a separate calendar for them. Like when you are going on leave, you have to appoint the handover as well and then you have to let me know and then we will sit one week earlier before prior to going on leave. Well, on me, I'm like, then when you are going on leave, find yourself a replacement and do whatever you want. Right. But those are the differences in my management style, but I do think that that kind of micromanagement is a lack of competencies in my perspective. And the reason why is, first of all, it's not being able to delegate, it's not being able to trust other people that they can do the job that they should do. And so if you don't trust your employees, of course that micromanagement will have negative effects and impact on the morale of the employees, of course, and how willing they are to work and how much they trust you. And micromanagement can also happen sometimes when things have gone bad and you just want to have more control over the situation and I see that happen a lot, why people want to micromanagement. But overall, I think that micromanagement is a lack of skill set and maybe sometimes also a lack of management maturity if I can give that a name because it is this kind of like fear of, or maybe wanting to be a being complete perfectionist and wanting to make sure that everything goes the way that you want to go, but that could also be something that was imposed on you. Maybe that was the kind of style that you always had and what I thought was very interesting what you said is like, you know, I've had to go through so much hardship everyone else should do the same. And again, I find that a lack of skill and it just shows like, you know, I've had to go through this, you need to go through that, but that should not always reflect, you know, what is a good management style or how to get the best out of people because, but again, in some environments or how people have been brought up can be seen as the only style they know. And so it's really interesting to talk, you know, it's to go deeper on these examples. And in lice of time, I just, I want to wrap up with, and I've loved this conversation with you, Mohammed, I want to wrap up with, of course, what are two red flags, clear red flags that you should, that you think people should watch out for? Maybe you can be specific here for the region in terms of management, behaviors and styles. And what are two green flags that people should definitely look out for in terms of good management? What is some examples of that? So start with two, one or two red flags and then we can go to one or two green flags. Yeah. So the first one, the red flag would be the person and then office if they are praising you, love bombing you a lot, you should be careful from that. Oh, love bombing in the workplace. Yeah. Oh, how does it elaborate? The praising is like, oh, you can do this. This is the only thing that you can do it. Like, I don't know how you fix it. Yeah. They keep on praising you, they keep on praising you, but you don't know what is behind the scenes, they are telling people, so it's like this, they will assign you a project. It is sitting with you. Ah, it's okay. Don't worry about it. I'm not in a hurry. It's fine. But that's again, the connection around you, you have to know the people, what they are telling you as well. So they will go behind and tell that, ah, it's spending with Muhammad, you know, that it's spending with Muhammad. Nobody can call Muhammad, it's Muhammad, you know, they're just going to say like this kind of stuff. So this is one of the, whatever the task, you just be clear, the set the expectation from very start, not to be like cut throat, like, ah, you want it today, you want it next week, you let them realize, for example, okay, this is the project I'm doing for you, you need to purchase this kind of, ah, technology. Yeah. This is not available. Yeah. So we will be developing, we will be looking for the suppliers outside the countries. This is going to take some time. So in other words, you're saying being realistic, managers who are realistic about setting goals and how to achieve things, but watch out for this overpraise all and being extra nice to you. Because sometimes extra nice can mean that there's something else happening. I love that you mentioned love bombing in the organ, I've never heard of that before. So I talk about love bombing when I talk about romance and dating, but I've never thought about love bombing in the organization. So that's truly first and what would be a second red flag? A second red flag would be the person who is the communication, ah, they're going to be sending the communication to everyone and excluding you. You have to be very careful from that person. Yeah. And why do managers do that? Why do managers exclude or like keep your way for certain people or information in your organization? What's your perspective? It's the power of information, like for example, they're going to be introducing a new process and then keep you completely in the dark because they know that this is going to be impacting Mohamed's work or this is going to be impacting Mohamed's team. Yeah. So it's like everybody will agree, ah, and then they will in the last moment they will call you. So everyone is saying yes on the table and you will be the only one saying, you know, ah, that's where the red flag is. Yeah. You have to know your people, like the stakeholders, yeah, who can do this? Like there are some people, there are experts, yeah, in this kind of style. Yeah. Very manipulative. Yeah. Yeah. Where manager will come in and he or she would basically say, yeah, no, you don't need to come in on Monday. Work from home. It's fine. You know, you think, oh, work from home. Hey, that's great. You know, it's today's world with hybrid work. It's all great. And no, no worries. Monday, you can work from home. And then Monday, they actually have a really important meeting where your manager is actually presenting your work as his or her work. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's something you have to watch out for. You can't always keep track of that. But I think what you said is very interesting that look at the pattern of behavior, right? Watch how people behave, not only to you, but also to other people as a way of finding out if you can really trust the person for doing that and have your allies, have your connections with you. They were speaking to. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And the person who is older in the company, they will let you know as well. Yeah. Yeah. You'll be careful from that. Right. So tell me about two green flags. What are two green flags that you think in terms of that, that's really, that's, that's a great hallmark of a good manager. A green flag would be if a manager is angry with you, they resolve it right there and then not to keep quiet. Like, for example, if you are, if you are my boss, you tell me, "Mohammad, you want to treat wrong." Yeah. Not like just keep quiet of it, then one day you're going to come and then dump it all together at once. Like the constant feedback should always be there. Right. Yeah. The green flag would be, you did this wrong. Yeah. I'm supporting you with this. Yeah. But the constant, the open feedback and the communication should always be there. Right. I love that. Yeah. I love that. I think the feedback loop should be there. Super. Very good. I'm reflecting on my own experience that I've, you know, I've had a manager or a boss when something happens and they don't tell you about it. And then like six, seven months later, they bring you into a review. You have no, you didn't even have any understanding of that review. And then they throw something at you. Like something really toxic or and you're like, "But why did you not tell me this sooner? Why did you wait all this time to tell me, right?" And so they can, so you can almost imagine that they use that strategically to try to hurt you or maybe their personal interest like, you know, reviews in terms of your performance. They have something against you holding up to it. Yeah. They're holding up against it or maybe because they tell you immediately, it might hurt your performance and therefore their bonuses, for example. So I hate that. Really. It's like, I really appreciate, sorry, I'm just getting very emotional about this one because it's happened to me. And I really agree. Like good management, like example of good management for me as well, is when they just tell you, like, this is what it is, right? And then you deal with that. So I think, you know, I don't want to interrupt you but I personally have experienced that. A couple of times and I definitely think that that's a whole mark of a good manager. And what's your second green flag? A second green flag would be spend time with the team. Yeah. If you are coming into the office closing the door, just saying good morning and the evening going out, that's a complete red flag. That manager can never be trusted. He can flip it to you at any time and style you. Right. So a green flag would be someone who builds connection with the team. Exactly. Yeah. Are you describing yourself now? Yes. Excellent. Mohammed, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you also for your perspective on management here in the UAE and in the Middle East in general and your stories and your insights have been so inspiring and informational because I think, again, a lot of people that are listening to today's show, you know, they're probably listening and thinking, what, what's the connections and is that fair and what not, but that's how that's how management and business runs here specifically in the region. And so bringing that example to light is great because we can also hear examples how things work in China and maybe in Japan or, you know, maybe in different parts of Africa and South America, which we haven't spoken about yet. But this is just one example of many that I think, you know, just helps us to kind of provide us a much more broader perspective to what is really a green flag and what is really a red flag. Yes. You know, in an organization in terms of management. So thank you again for being here on the show and sharing your perspective. Thank you, Dr. Thank you so much for having me and such an honor and lovely to see you always. Good. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So in today's podcast, we spoke specifically about the intercultural aspects of management and leadership and how maybe, you know, when we view management and how people behave specifically in the organization, how sometimes that cultural lens can influence us to see it as either a green flag or a red flag. And so in today's discussion with Muhammad, we spoke specifically about, you know, management styles and different approaches here specifically in the region, but at the same time, we also looked at, you know, what are some, you know, examples of bad behaviors, how to address them, and also what can be done about them? How can we train managers to be more effective, especially in a region where there, it's like a melting pot where there are so many different cultures and understandings of, you know, how to behave and what is correct and what is not correct. And so the, we talked also about the importance of, of training and helping people to further develop and, you know, also to be able to see the unobservable truth of the world, which is the cultural aspects. And I think not only for here, but all around the world, it's such an important thing to do. And so hopefully today's podcast is being able to help you better understand and maybe even reflect on your own experiences in terms of how managers have treated you specifically in a very diverse environment. So I'll be making, I'll make sure that we have all the links and contact details of Muhammad in the show mentioned so that you can reach out to him if you want to or get in contact with him. And also I also want to make a quick mention of my new book called Red Flags, Green Flags, which I'm very excited about, where I talk about, you know, what are good behaviors and bad behaviors, specifically in a modern day world, right? So the world has changed so rapidly today and today's world that, you know, so what we maybe even believed was a green flag 10 years ago might now be perceived as a red flag. And why is that? And so in the book Red Flags and Green Flags, I talk about the intricacies and the drama, of course, in not just only work relationships, but also friends and family, romance, and of course dating. And I talk about, and I provide a psychological lens to better understand why people behave the way they do. What are the reasons behind it, but also more importantly, what can you do to actually deal with these difficult situations, improve your own personal development, but also become much more better at building relationships and also understanding when you're the red flag. So if you are interested, please definitely buy the book. Let's help make this book a bestseller. And I look forward to seeing you again on my next episode of Red Flag, Screen Flags.