Season 2, Episode 4 - "Godspeed"

From the bridge of the good ship sci-fi wire, this is episode three of the churn, a podcast about the expanse. And today we're talking about episode four of the expanse season two Godspeed. My name is Adam Swedersky. I am the editor in chief of sci-fi wire and joining me as always is. Share Martinetti via satellite. From across the ether. Yeah, share got infected with the little touch of the proto molecule this week. I think it's going to clear up. She's got some robot testing. I do. It's been testing on it. But yeah, and we will be talking of course, as always, with Ty Frank and Daniel Abraham, the creators of the expanse universe. And we will also be joined this week by Hadi Macat Pants, Stephen Strait, Captain of the Rossignan Mountain. I mean, we really have to talk about this because you're starting to worry me with your Stephen Strait. Well, it's going to get really awkward when he gets on the line. And I'm just like, tell me about your abdominal work at routine. Let's talk about that for half an hour. Maybe don't do that. So you got that to look forward to folks. But seriously, if you are, thank you for joining us on the churn. And if you are enjoying what you're hearing, we would love for you to go to iTunes and rate and review us. Let us know what you think. Comment on the story where you find this. And yeah, get in touch. You can get in touch with us on Twitter as well at sci fi wire and let us know what you want to hear from the expanse and the churn. So here we go, episode four, season two, episode fours of this show so far have been kind of an episode where everything's, yeah, the episode where everything starts to happen. Because wow, was there a lot going on this week? We had a Vassarala finally starting to make her move. We have Jules Pierre Mao shaking things up with Aaron Wright. And then the big thing, of course, is the realization of the plan that Miller and Fred Johnson came up with last week to launch the Navu at Aros and push it into the sun. And yeah, everybody from Tyco kind of chipping in on that one and take some interesting twists and turns. Sure. What was your impression of this episode? I mean, I think that there's been a lot going on this season, to be honest, but I do like that you saw their plans, like come into fruition. I like that there were a couple of little funny clips by Amos. I kind of have a feeling I know where this is going. I don't want to spoil it for people that maybe don't know because they haven't like read the book, but I'm pretty positive we know where this is going. I feel like every week is going to get more anxiety and do things like more intense, which is great from a show standpoint because like that's what you want. And I feel like the way that episode's been ending with like some things about to happen next week. I think that's always a good thing because it's too much to tune in next week. You know, so I'm into it. And the space to designs were amazing. That was very cool. I didn't mean to imply by the way that things hadn't happened up to this point. I just feel like this was definitely the most propulsive episode yet of this season, really high stakes action going on. My purse, although I will say I'm not usually the biggest fan of the earth of us are all of stuff. But I loved her smiling while she was reading Jules Pierre Mao while she was giving him the business today or in this episode. That was that was fun for me because it was nice. We've seen her be hard and we've seen her be political, but to see her just kind of, you know, sitting there with that pleasant smile while she basically told him that she's onto his shit and, you know, she's not going to stand for it was really kind of neat. We had two f-boms this week. Last week we had one. I'm wondering if we're going to like be wrapping up the f-bomage. Yeah, hi, Ty. Hi, Daniel. How are you guys doing? I'm doing all right. Happy to be here. Welcome to the show once again. I think, but I'm not sure. I think maybe Steven 30 on the line too. Hello. See? Hi. Hi, there we go. Hi, guys. How are you doing? Doing good, huh? That was really good. It was like your Steven straight sense went off, Sher. I know. I know. I'm not that hot. Steven, I didn't have an alarm. That would be more Adam thing because he's unhealthy and fashion with you right now. So I'm just more awake. Oh, go. Okay. I'm ready. I'm ready, Adam. Let's hear it. It's totally and completely healthy. I don't want to scare you off of this early. Give me some time and we'll scare you off. It's not right off the bat. So anyway, so thanks for joining us this week on the turn. I guess we can jump right in with you. We're talking about episode four of season two, which is the big launching the Niveau at a eros episode. Some big moments, some big moments for holding in this. We kind of see him have to deal with his idealism versus pragmatism. What was that like for you in terms of the development of the character? This episode in particular, the ever increasing responsibility that he feels towards people that are affected by the program molecule. It's one in a series of events that continue to push hold into a greater more pragmatic moral code. And it's hard. I wanted to be sure to show how difficult it is to hold him in becoming a competent passionate leader. You see him struggle and stumble and hurt. I didn't want it to be a clean trajectory from him being this kind of slacker on the Canterbury to being this upfront, forthright hero. I mean, it's hard for him to get there and episode four, if he's just as a perfect example of that evolution happening. And that's a very clear one. I mean, I think the doctor's incident is a huge deal for holding. And there's really kind of no coming back to his idealism after that. I mean, he's well on his way. I was really struck by the fact that he pushes the button himself rather than giving the order to fire. I thought that was a nice little nod to the fact that he's willing to take responsibility for it. And his hand was shaking. You could tell that he has a sense. Holden, you know, from the very beginning, becomes embroiled in this by circumstance. I mean, he answers at the stress call, the beginning of season one, and the dominoes start to fall for him. And in this episode, you really see how large the arc is for him. He's in this crazy circumstance where he has to essentially execute this group of humanitarian these doctors for the sake of everyone else just to be sure. And I think in the beginning of season one, that would be incomprehendable to hold. I don't think he would have been capable then. But in this season and in this episode in particular, I mean, he knows. He knows the kind of guilt that one feels over the loss of other people's lives. That's what drives him from the beginning. I mean, he still thinks the Can of the area is his fault. Even if it may not be, he certainly feels that way. And the proto-mauqewel and all this stuff, he feels not wholly responsible, but definitely involved somehow. And I think he feels a more responsibility to take on as much of that bird as he can. And he doesn't want to impose that on this family that he's created, that they found themselves together. No, that shouldn't be anybody else's responsibility. And hold in things for himself. And his trajectory into a more gray character pushes itself the time after that for sure. Now, Ty and Daniel, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not remembering the 100% right, but the Mirasmus incident wasn't in the books, is that correct? No, it's not in there. It was created for the show. So specifically so we could give hold in a real crisis point that was external to himself. It wasn't something that he was going through and it's had like we do in the books where he had an external force acting on him where he had to make a terrible decision that had consequences for himself and for people around him. And I think, I mean, it's the kind of thing we would put in the book. It's definitely fits exactly with the kind of mythology we're doing and sort of how we've designed Holden's character arc. And yet was specifically for the show and specifically for Steven. We actually have a question that we got on Twitter and somebody wanted to know so that they were thinking they love how Holden is allowed to be such an emotional dude and how you prepared for his mental and emotional state in season two. Because he's obviously a lot of the stuff like, you know, Daniel just said it's not in your head or in the character's head. You're actually having it happen. Right. Yeah. And there was a lot of research to do actually on Holden's trajectory in season two. I mean, he is, he's a guy who wears his flaws in his sleeve and he's unapologetically, you know, who he is from the very beginning. You know, in this season and especially after arrows at the end of season one, you know, he's a lot of people who are in the same position as the one who is in the same position. and Miller are really the only two people left at this point who have experienced the horror of what happened on Arizona in a very personal way. And what I did in preparation for him this year was was try to plot out and execute the most realistic, the most realistic version of him going through this PTSD experience after arrows and becoming increasingly obsessed with getting rid of the pause of it. And I spoke to one of the leads psychologists in the Canadian military before we started the show, we shoot up in Toronto, so we had access to them up there. And I asked him a bunch of questions about what it was like for peacekeepers in genocidal zones and conflicts like Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Kosovo and whatnot. And what the effect was on those who were there who came back feeling somewhat helpless to stop the carnage and and also taking on the responsibility of what they've witnessed. And for me, Holden's journey this year is kind of is pushed directly by the things the experiences on arrows along with the things that happened before that with the Canterbury and whatnot. But when it gets to arrows, it stops being it's always a personal journey, but it stops being entirely personal. It's not just about justice for the Canterbury. Now it involves everybody. The greater his sphere of responsibility and the greater the sphere of the effect of the protocol, cure amongst everybody by this point, the more crushing it is for Holden. And him being an emotional and flawed guy, I think allows me as the actor and allows the audience, I think, to see how difficult these transitions are. They aren't clean. They don't just happen overnight. They stumble and fumble and he's in a tremendous amount of pain this season. And most of the research done for that was done looking through books about soldiers coming back from Moore and talking to psychologists in the military and also reading the books. And going over the books again and again and continuing to dig into Holden's psyche and why he reacts the way he does. How far along in the books are you? I've read the first three. I didn't want to go past that. I read the first two before I started the show just as a fan. And I didn't want to go past the third one just because I didn't want to know what Holden was going to become. I didn't want to get ahead of myself because I felt like I'd have it in the back of my mind as I was performing it. So I stopped myself at three, but I'm looking forward to pushing on. That's kind of too bad, Steven, because in book four is where Holden turns into a sex robot. I really feel like you would enjoy that. You know, I had a question. I felt like it was always going that direction. Yeah. The camera is there right from the beginning. I mean, it's like last week, last week, Ty, you said that that aim is your id. And it's Holden like, you know, basically how you see yourself actually because I know you write a good map of that character. Not really. It's, Holden is interesting because he and I are almost nothing alike, but I feel like I really get where he's coming from. I feel like I understand why he does the things he does. And I'm very sympathetic to his worldview. I'm much more cynical than he is, at least in the earlier books. But yeah, I mean, he and I are very different, but he's different in ways that I get it. Like I wish more people were like Holden, even though I know I'm not. I think the world would be a better place if we had a little more of that idealism, a little more of that belief that humans can do the right thing if you give them all of the information. Even if I personally don't believe that's true, I love that Holden does. You had mentioned that the the Mirasmus scene, you said at the end that it was written for Stephen. And I guess I wanted to ask like how much has Stephen's work in season one influenced the way the character is written in season two? Has there been anything we you change something or take particular direction because of what Stephen brings to the role? I mean, you can't help speaking it for the writers room, you can't help but watch the performance and say this actor is really good at this kind of thing. Let's find lots of places to put that kind of thing in. Of course, you're going to do that. You want to see, you want to see your performers do the kind of work that they seem to really dig into. And and you know, get their teeth chewing into. And so you try to write those kinds of things. We I mean, and if you don't do that, it's stupid because you have people who have these amazing gifts and talents for specific kind of work. Why wouldn't you let them turn that loose? Stephen, how do you feel that when you were reading in the books and kind of getting this first and everything? There's anything that you particularly applied direction wise to the character that you might not have seen on the page. I mean, obviously your performance brings something because it's your performance, but was there anything where you were like, I kind of want to take this in this direction? Well, I mean, I got the architecture for for Holden's art and journey from the books. I mean, it's all there, but you know, I think, you know, why I love the books to begin with him before I started on the show was the incredible sense of realism and humanity that permeates the entire story. It was unlike most any other science fiction I'd ever read before. And you know, I wanted to I wanted to make sure that there was that warmth. There was that humanity behind Holden because that ultimately is what makes him the leader he is. It's his heart, you know, because he does make he makes mistakes and he is flawed and he, you know, he has all these other qualities that could perhaps put people in danger and regularly does, but he's got this warmth of his idealism and of his spirit that I wanted to really make sure came across. I wanted him to be relatable and I wanted to show that, you know, this guy who really, you know, wanted nothing to do with the greater responsibilities of the solaceous family, how this regular guy steps up to the plate at every step of the way and it's really, really hard. And I, because it felt honest, it felt like honest way to approach it. And that was there in the books, you know, it was the feeling behind the plot that really struck me. It was that warmth. So if anything, I took that tone from the books and tried to apply it. That's like, how much of Holden would you say that you haven't commented with him? I think there's a lot of it that a lot of Holden that I can relate to. I mean, that's your job really as an actor is it? And I mean, it's to find, you know, what you can relate to, what you can empathize with, what you love and hate about each character you play, what Holden, what struck me is his vast arc from being this kind of black and white, morally idealist, logical guy who has this incredible idealism over what people were capable of and what the solaceous system and the greater, the greater kind of sphere of humanity should be like if everything were done the right way and to see him kind of shoulder more and more responsibilities and not lose the idealism. I consider myself an idealist in a lot of ways. But as you get older and as you take on more responsibilities and what not obviously, that's temperate based on just pragmatic situations and life in general. But for me, it was his idealism and his struggle to hold on to it that I connected to personally. I feel like I have that within me. It's been pointed out that you are not on and I was actually one of the questions. They wanted to know why you're not on social media. Which for the record, I think it's a very smart move, but let's hear it. Well, there's two reasons. Personal and professional. I mean, personally, I just happened to be a really private person. So the constant interaction on social media makes me a little uncomfortable and the other is professional. And you know, it's something that I thought a lot about and you don't want to know too much about the performers that are playing your roles at least in my opinion. And it's obviously a very personal opinion and then there's no right or wrong way to do it or not do it. But the more the more I know about a performer I'm watching the harder it is to just to suspend my disbelief on what year she's trying to portray. I don't know. It seems antithetical to or a bit of a hindrance to to share too much about who who you are as a person or what your life is like. If you're expecting people who are watching you to forget all of those things and take on the characteristics of the characters you're playing. So, you know, for me it's both. It's both that I'm personally just not. It just makes me uncomfortable and professionally. I can't see a way that it that it helps me as an actor. I do my job better. I mean, I see I certainly see that the commercial ramifications for the monetary ones. But that's not my priority. So I just try to do everything I can to make sure I can I can act the best I can. But think of all the cat videos you're missing out on. You're missing out on like slowly or softly falling into madness with the rest of us that he like what's going on in the world on social media. I know I know it's not something I've ever been a part of and I started you know I started acting when I was really young and it wasn't part of the business yet. And it's just not something that I've been able to wrap my head around but I'm okay with it. You know I'm gram content. I'm content not big on it. So when when Dominique was on a couple of weeks ago and I asked her who she thought would win an arm wrestling match. I'm pretty hard and Frankie. She said that she definitely couldn't take Frankie, but she said that she could beat you in arm wrestling match. So what do you have to say about that? I know better than the argue with now. I'm sure she could see the stuff. I'm sure she could. I told her I was going to instigate this because I know for the time everybody hears this this will be after the premiere but we're actually going to see you guys a couple days. So I was like I need to get this the first chance I have and since it's like I have that chance I might have to instigate this when we see you guys a couple of days ago. I'm not going to arm wrestle. I would listen to Jim work out be prepared. You do not know expect come your way. It's going to be like that amazing Stallone movie from the 80s. Yeah. But like what do they want? The one where he's like arm wrestling across America. Yes. Oh my god. I'm like what is it called? It's called over the top. That's right over the top. We're going to have an over the top with an amazing we'll get the Sammy Hagar theme song. It'll be amazing. Yeah. I love it. I am Daniel. What are the odds that you can write in a like Stallone S Rocky workout montage for season three for the crew. I think that needs the option. I think we have a lot of writers. It doesn't have 50 out. We can get the whole room on it. We'll find something. Yeah. You're the two writers that are on the pod right now. So until I have the chance to like inspect everybody with the amazing idea. I know. I'm not surprised. I really like the idea of Alex deciding that's what he needs to do. So we can we can have scenes of him flying the Rossi. Well, he's got that weight. Yeah. He's got that weight hooked up. So he's like he's like pumping weights with his right arm while he's flying. He's like Stallone had the cab of a truck. I totally want to see that where Alex just gets completely jacked in one. Yeah. It's like fast. I am. Oh, there's more than one person would like that sequence to happen. Yeah. I'm so in. Can we please make that happen? That would be amazing. I'm not sure if you're going to be able to do that. I was going to say this conversation had gone completely off the rails. We did say we would talk about Holden's work every team when we had Stephen on here. So there you go. Mission accomplished. Yeah. So here comes the key to the session part. What? No, I'm not going to say. Listen, I just think I was just like we had an episode. I think that was episode one. The airlock, you know, sexy time with Holden and Naomi. And I got to say, man, Holden's abs were the most impressive special effect on the show that week. And it sticks with you. You're very. You're very. Thank you. Is it in your contract that the first episode of every season you have to bear your ass? Is that in your contract? I mean, am I supposed to say, time, Daniel? I mean, I don't know. It just kind of fell out. It just kind of came out that way, I guess. Let's see. You know, here's the deal. When you have that amazing of an ass on the cast, you're doing yourself a disservice by not working it into as many scripts as you can. You find. You find people telling you right to them, right? That's. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you very much. My, my ass did amazing work at acting school. I. It really. I'm not going to say that. or like, you know, how much it changes kind of like personality and with everything that's coming up with Holden, how much of that you feel like kind of gets on you. And like, what do you do to kind of decompress or like, you know, I know that Thai likes to try to kill West with Tequila. So like, what do you do to try to like undo the heavy mask and show? And are you walking around ordering around the rest of the cast off camera because you're the captain? To that, I'll say no comment. I'm definitely not bossy at all. Not at all. I run. I'm a runner. I run every day. It's the way I know how to decompress. And you know, when you're shooting a show like this, I mean, you know, when I first read the script, you know, what was the initial pull towards it other than obviously being a fan of the books already was that the sheer ambition of showing and creating a sci-fi piece of this size and tone had never been done before. And, you know, we are shooting a massive amount of material with enormous sets and, you know, in a storyline that's complex and adult and, and, and conferences and, and applies to things that are happening to people today. So you want to obviously give it everything you have to make sure that you're not being disrespectful to people who have maybe gone through something similar. You know, we have, it really is an all-encompassing process. I mean, we shoot, you know, long hours, most days. I'm there most days. And then we spend the weekends rehearsing for the next week. So, you know, the little, the little moments that you get to decompress, you know, whether that's going to the bar for a drink or two after or, you know, taking a run or or whatever is, is really important to be able to step away from the kind of heaviness that's going on within the universe of these characters, just to stay sane and healthy. But yeah, for me it was, it's running. I go for a run every day. And that kind of shows me out, clears me up. Is there anybody that like on set, you guys like kind of like played jokes or anything? I think I heard like half of, I might be messing this up. I think I heard there's something that you guys like to do like accents or something or impression there's something or. Oh, well, I mean, we're constantly, we're constantly fucking around each other. I mean, Wes, Wes, it's Wes by himself is like, is like a one man like joke and, you know, he always is creating these hilarious situations. He's such as a jokes or. But we have a really kind of fun playful energy between everybody on set. It's, you know, we all really dig each other and not just the cast, but the crew as well. And we're really tight on. So we're constantly messing with each other, you know, like setting up traps and, you know, like, traps. Like you paint the time on the walk. Bear traps. Yeah. I know, I just made fun of Merkle. Can I tell you guys my favorite on-screen joke moment between Wes and Steven? Because it's fantastic. Go for it. They're filming, they're filming a scene together where they're talking to each other. And Wes is trying to make Steven laugh. So when Steven's delivering his line, Wes is like making funny faces and thrusting his hip satan. And then in the middle, the scene, Steven goes, Wes, they've turned around. You're the one on camera right now. That may be like my favorite moment on set, period. For the last two years. It's amazing. The footage of that has to come out at some point, right? We need a leaker for that one. I'm like, good times. You said you're a fan of Sci-Fi. Like, where's some other things that you like? Like, we know you read the books and you're a fan of the books beforehand. But what is some other stuff I like? Would you ever, you know, do you want to stay working in this genre? Do you want to branch out? Well, in terms of working and taking roles, I really don't take based on genre really. It's all based on character and writing and who's involved. For me, the experience is obviously a sci-fi, epic and classic. But what I connected to most about it was the people, as I was saying earlier. And for most of the sci-fi that I like and that I'm drawn to, it's usually the same. But that's the same for every genre that I watch. It could be comedy or drama or period drama, whatever. It's always the characters and the people that I'm drawn to. And in terms of others, sci-fi that I've liked in the past, I mean, you know, in literature, Philip Tadek, you know, in film, early, really Scott. I like stuff that reflects a sense of realism. Mostly because I feel like the greatest strength of science fiction as a genre in and of itself is to be able to talk about very difficult things politically and personally. That you might find it difficult to express in a present context because people feel passionately about them. But with sci-fi, you're able to make it more digestible and have this kind of honest conversation about almost anything you want, especially in the political sphere and even in the philosophical one. So, and certainly the personal one. So, you know, to that strength, there's really no limit on what where you can go and how far you can push and what you can talk about and what, and that that piece of science fiction to me is the coolest part about it. That was very cheap, I like shit. I was like, no one has to talk anymore. Everybody else is like that. Also lasers. Lasers are cool. And lasers are super, super cool. Let's talk a little bit about this week though. Like Miller's plan. It happens. So, I don't want to like, I don't want to obviously go into spoiler territory because we kind of have an idea of what's going to happen after this. But we talked a little bit about how we came up with this and where Naomi's, he's really like affected by his decision right now, which is a little surprising. But they kind of had a bond and she's the most effective and actually even Holden's, which you can speak to this seems a little emotional about what's going on. Yeah. Yes, that is all true. Everything you just said, that all absolutely happened. All right. That's all everybody. I can tell you right now. I'm like, I'm sick and you guys are killing me. Come on. That's so much fun. Yeah, you have. Good game. Good game, everybody. Good game. Good game, guys. I hope everybody, I hope everybody out there hears what I have to go through with you guys. I share tell us more things that happened. I guess my specific question is how much scientific research for you guys went into like, concocting the whole firing the Nivu at arrows and pushing it into the sun plan. Even when it comes down to the games people play on space stations, there was a lot of scientific thought that went into that. So I'm curious as to how this was concocting. We did enough research to realize that the math of throwing something into the sun is really, really, really hard. And so we said that we're very smart people on TICO and just kind of less than that. Seriously though, it's very hard to think something in the sun to really, the math on that one is extensive. Is it harder or easier than throwing? Because I think like when I think of landing rovers on Mars, when that happened, I was like, oh my god, we threw something at Mars and hit it. Is that throwing something at the sun even harder than that? Yeah, it actually is. It's incredibly, it's really easy to sling shut things around this one. But actually getting one to go into it is pretty difficult. The nice thing about being out in the asteroid belt though is it actually makes it easier. The farther you are from the sun, the easier it is to change your orbital trajectory so that you fall into it. So we did have the advantage of being out in the asteroid belt to do it. But yeah, the math is pretty complex. Most things that you throw at the sun will actually just sort of whip around the sun and come back at you. And the closer you are to the sun, the harder it is to get something to land in it. See, that's the ruins my whole plan because that was my dream when I die was to be having my body shot into the sun. So that this is branching to everything. You better get on that mask. I know. I know. What are you hunter Thompson? Like what is this? I want, I want the energy in my body to return to the cosmic forge from when it came. That's all. And you said I was deep. Yeah. You're like a model. My plan is to go back to medical. Really? So that's your plan. We guys to go back to medical. Yeah. Just hard. Is that like some kind of purgatory or is that like? I never made it to a cadaver lab. So I'm a little bit more. Ah, there you go. Oh, I got it. You can see things from the other side. If there was a good place, if there was a good place, then in your good place, you'd be in men's school. Even do you watch the good place? Because we all like we're talking about the show before. I don't know what is the good place. I've never even heard. You are one of the days lucky 10,000 did. I'm so excited. What is it? It's a show like as soon as you hang up with us, you have to go into the room and binge watch the good place. Yeah. Don't don't don't don't ask any too many questions. Just go go watch. And then when you're done, come back and talk to me. Yeah. Okay. It's by you. You like you like you like the office or parks and rack? No, yeah. This is this is this is this is this one is for Steven. This even even has a deeper philosophical education than almost anybody I've ever met. This is going to scratch his itch. Oh, your. Sounds great. If your D is your in the D stuff, by. I'm sorry. Please. Seriously. It's yeah, it's yeah, it's a. It's a sitcom with philosophy. Yeah, Steven is the one that went. Steven is the one that when he and I were getting drunk in a hotel room at three o'clock in the morning, we spent the whole time talking about Marcus, the railing. I heard about. Oh, God. This place is going to find it. I do. I do want to ask actually one more one more science slash like depiction of science question. And that was the the arrows moving away at the last minute moment. And when I read that in the book and this is probably just having to do with, you know, not having the proper image of the scope of space, it was like this sudden thing where it like just, you know, jolted out of the way and it was seemed much more stately and the way it happened in the show. Can you guys talk a little bit about that and and depicting it that way versus as this sudden, violent, big moment? The thing you have to keep in mind with the way it was shot is that it was shot from detective Miller's perspective. So sitting there on the asteroid, when it moves, the weirdness of it is that he doesn't feel anything that there's no sudden jerky movement that it just sort of seems to be in one place and then it sort of seems to be in another place. And we really wanted to play up the weirdness of that. So shooting it all from his perspective allowed us to do that. Now, from everyone else's perspective, it launched itself out of the way at high speed, but that's from the outside. If you were actually sitting on the rock like he was, it felt very, very smooth. Yeah, that did that is weird, that it did that is one of the weirds. It was very cool. I love that shot of the ship just like majestically soaring overhead. It really kind of gave you a sense of the scope of the thing. Hey off that we get with Eros moving. Eros moving is. Only a thing of awe and wonder if you have spent a season and a half being restricted to classical physics. I mean, it is this is the payoff of all of that time we spent thinking about inertia and how gravity works and has been works and having that be a constraint all the way through. Now we see something that maybe that doesn't apply to and that that should be scary. Now that if we had artificial gravity all the way through it wouldn't be scary. And it made for a great cliffhanger for the end of the episode too. Yeah, and look cool. There's nothing there's nothing like ending. So there's nothing like any of an episode on the words what the fuck like that was just really. I was like that is the perfect button on this scene. Now he actually did. He did message me with he ended with what the fuck at the end of it. So yeah, not that. So why don't we and Stephen you can like join in in this part like we do a shout out at the end of the podcast where we kind of shut out other things that are like sci-fi or genre related that we're into. So if you have something free to like contribute, but high in banal where you into right now that you want to shut out. Or don't say anything. I'll start there you guys that's the captain taking charge right there. I feel like I was the last person to see a rival and I would loan the fuck away. Arrival was amazing. Oh, that is such a good. Stephen did you meet him? What was on set? I had changed it was amazing. You made money was there. Yes, I did. It was awesome to meet him. I and you know and the director of arrivals one of my favorite directors working today. I mean, I must have seen Chicago like three or four times. It's you're looking for later. I have a very. Yeah. You know, to be honest with you, I don't. I that director, Dennis Villanuev, I think that's a front of the last name. He can do no wrong. I mean, the guy is just every filming is on. This is absolutely beautiful and arrival is gorgeous. I mean, I've been obsessed with it over the last like week or so. How excited are you for Blade Runner then? Dude, I can't even I'm trying not to think about it because I'm such a huge fan of the first one. And I'm such a huge fan of this director who's doing the remake. It's just going to be so killer. Can't wait. Can't wait to see what they do with it. He always has such original ways of showing things. It's going to be awesome. I was going to say as a sci-fi fan, it's really great when you get a director like that. Who you know has just like film chops to come in and start doing genre stuff. It's really it's it's very exciting. I think the batman, the Nolan batman trilogy is so good. For that exact reason, because he's a real director and he's been in. That's my personal takes. I haven't seen a rival yet, so I can't say anything about it. It's so good. Everyone's. You can love it. You know, love it. It's awesome. It's a great movie. Do you feel that Amy Adams was robbed in the Oscar nominations? I do actually. She was so wonderful in this movie. It was incredibly lyrical and interesting. Her performance was intelligent and layered. Yeah, she really just she really just puts you right there. This is what her. Not that would have been her fifth or sixth nomination. If she got nominated. Oh, I don't know. Even I made it a fun. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. She has that she won for. What was it out? It was out right? Three. I wish one. She won four. But was that that was supporting that best actress? Right? It's supporting that was supporting. Yeah, that was supporting. Yeah. But yeah, she's amazing. I mean, two incredible incredible actor. So I didn't mean to do it that so far this year. I'm only reading sci-fi books by women authors. I'm finishing up books right now by an author named Cameron Hurley. She's got a book just coming out called The Stars or Legion. Kind of a space opera book that's really excited to be reading. And then I just finished up some stuff by my other favorite. One of my other favorite writers, Sherry Priest. Who I just finished up her. Her series that started with maple croft. So that's what I've been reading. Is that series done? Is it finished like wrapped? Yeah, maple croft and chapel would actually wound up just being two books. She had more that she could have done, but she stopped after two. Cause I have this I have this ongoing thing with science fiction and fantasy right now is that other than the expense novels, because those are amazing, of course. But and they're available and they're and they're available on orbit book. There you go. There you go. I had to know I had to put that out there. But, but with trying to find like sci-fi and fantasy novels that stand on their own, you know, without being part of a series, that is really hard to find these days. So without being, you know, part of a 10 part run, you know, it's a tough thing. If you like Gothic, could Fulu West Corp maple croft and chapel would are two fantastic books. They tell a complete story. You will not regret reading them. Excellent. What does it say as we give a little shout out, but it's got a preview copy of our buddy Chuck Wendy's Thunderbird, his latest and his Miriam Black series. So I'm going to start that. I'm going to start out just because it's tough and we like him. He's a good guy. Yeah. If you look, the other thing I just mentioned, if you're looking for a standalone fantasy uprooted by Nami Novak, I think one the nebula last year and is the lovely book. Ah, excellent. One one volume whole story, start to finish. I'm writing that down right now. That's great. Okay. So those are our shout outs. I guess it's different. Yeah, that was that was episode three of the churn. Thank you guys for joining us. Thank you, Steven so much for calling in. Thank you. Hey, man. Thank you guys for having me, man. Really appreciate it. No problem. Absolutely. And Ty and Daniel is always. Hopefully you'll be back soon and Ty and Daniel. Yeah. We'll talk to you next time because we just do that every week. But we want to thank everybody at home for listening. And definitely please, as I said at the top of the episode, rate us, review us on iTunes, subscribe. Lots more coming as we round out season two of the, I shouldn't say round out, there's still so much left of season two of the expanse. So a lot of exciting stuff to come. And again, always hit us up on Twitter at sci-fi wire or in the comments on this podcast story. And thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next time. [Music]