Season 2 Episode 4: Empire State of MFT: Inside Iona University’s #1 Program (Dr. Christiana Awosan, PhD., LMFT, Marc Fernandez, LMFT, Ina Qema LAMFT)

Welcome to the New York Marriage and Family Therapy Network Podcast. Hosted by Kellyanne Harney, this show features insightful interviews with professionals in the field. Our goal is to use our platform to promote the common professional interests of marriage and family therapists and discuss local and national fields. We invite systemic thinkers from all career stages to join us and be a part of our community from across New York State. This is your space, your home, your growth. Welcome back to the New York Marriage and Family Therapy Network Podcast. I'm your host Kellyanne Harney. And today we are joined by three incredible leaders who are shaping the future of marriage and family therapy in New York. Not just in their own institutions but across the state. So first we have Mark Fernandez, who is the clinical director of the Iona Family Therapy Center, where he oversees training and community-based clinical services with a systemic equity driven lens. And joining him is Dr. Cristiana Awasan, Associate Professor, Program Director and Chair of the Department of Marriage and Family Therapy at Iona University. She's a nationally respected educator, condition and researcher focused on trauma, race and relational hearing. And then we are rounding out our panel with Iona Chima, who is our appointed chair of the New York Marriage and Family Therapy Network. And she's also a statewide leader who's deeply engaged in advocacy, equity, and advancing the voice of MFTs at the policy level. Together we are exploring Iona's number one ranking as the top MFT program in New York. And we're also talking about how curriculum shapes and is aligned with diagnostic privilege, which is a high topic. And what the next generation of systemic, just and driven therapists will need to lead and thrive in this movement. So thank you so much. This is feeling very nostalgic. We do have to mention Inna and I, we're alum. What year? 2022? Yeah, so this is a reunion for us. And I believe it all came in around the same time. Right? So this is special. I want to jump right in. So Iona University, we're now university during that time when we first started off. We got to upgrade. We got to upgrade. So Iona's MFT program was recently ranked as number one in New York state by the counseling psychology dot org. So what does that recognition reflect about where MFT education is headed in New York? That's a really good question. First, I want to say like all three of you actually Iona MFT alumni. That's a little happy family. That's awesome. And I think that speaks to the testament of the MFT program at Iona, right? The program started with a group of people with Dr. Robert Burns starting it off in the early 80s. I would even say before. Yeah. Yeah. The 90s. So she is. Yes. He is. He's still a faculty meetings with us. And we really appreciate his wisdom and his guidance. And I think really the MFT program being ranked number one in New York state. We're very grateful for that. And it's also because of the amazing work that has been done over like decades and recently the work that we've been really doing to strengthen our curriculum. And now also must say that we have incredible alums, right? We have people working in the field and in the state of New York and outside of the state of New York New Jersey Connecticut and even nationally. And people are recognizing the work that we're doing here at Iona and the training that we equipped our students with not only to know the theories of systems very well. But to also be able to integrate it with like assessment, diagnostic and also to really have a cultural like lens and awareness that's connected to that with a strong emphasis in social of the therapist. And I think all of that combined with just the passion and the commitment to the field. It's really showing out there and people are like, hey, what's going on at Iona in the MFT program. And so we're very, very excited about that. And like we feel like our future is really bright as well. You know where we've been seeing it too is the interviews. And when we're interviewing new students, we do a group interview format and then one on ones, of course. But a lot of the new students, they're coming from all over the country and that was not necessarily the case beforehand. And so clearly somehow maybe in some reddit threat or in some sort of other forum. They're talking about the Iona MFT program. And it seems like for a lot of people say on the west coast or Midwest that are have maybe always been planning to move over to the east coast and are seeing the name. Yeah, for sure. And it's not only that we also have international students. And I mean, this is students who some of them are right out of college. We do get some students right out of college. However, majority of our incoming students are like, this is their second career, their third career that they've done some incredible stuff in the world. And they're coming back to say, hey, this is a field. This is a profession. And Iona is the program that I want to train me in my region family therapy and in the field of mental health. So very excited and honored by that. And consider with the work that we do a lot of the international students are actually moving here on their own. And so their family is back home. And a lot of them are looking to build a career here and hopefully bring family over. That's great. And I, you know, you mentioned second their career and that that was me. That was me. And talking about just internationally students coming over, one thing that I recognized during that group, that group interview was representation. And it's nice to see that there were people who have been in the field, right, that were pre-licensed and then also students that recently graduated, then students like myself who second or third career. And it just brought a lot of perspective into the program. And I felt like it was an intentional effort not only the students, but also representation culturally across the staff as well. No, I mean, you're speaking to something that we've as a faculty, we've kind of like love to do now even though it does take a lot of work. When I think three years ago, no, actually like five years ago, we used to do our interview as individual interview and by like one on one with one faculty and like candidate. So we decided to change it. This is based on like my own experience and my own master's interview at a circuit university. And I thought that I thought that interview was very powerful and moving for me because it helped me to solidify and be confident in the fact that I was going into the field of marriage and family therapy. I was going to a program that will really train me well as a therapist. So I really wanted to bring something like that to Iona. So one of the things that we talked about is how do we reflect what happens in the classroom also in the interview process so that people will know what they get in themselves into. So one of the things that we've done is to really give people a chance to do group interview and after the group interview, we do individual interview and the group is interviews a way to really help people see themselves right and it's a way to to really show up like you show up on paper like people are like paper. And tell you like qualified to do this work. However, we're also looking at your interpersonal skills while you're able to listen and even like how well you're able to give space and hold space for not only yourself while other people as well. So it's kind of like a simulation of the classroom in a sense and I interview ease of really appreciated that because it helps them to have a what they've told us that is that helps them to have a good sense of what they what they should expect in the program and we really appreciate that. I think that's fantastic and the only little thing that I'll add is just you know we keep it relational from the moment that you interview to the moment that you graduate from that group interview to your coursework where so many relational experiences are having had in the in that learning experience to the clinical work as we do. Co-therapy teams from the role plays all the way to the clients that you see here we really try and keep that keep each student's mind thinking relational every step of the way. Yeah, definitely link into the core of what the mission and the philosophy of the program is is to take relational is to train relational systemic clinicians so we do it all throughout. I just had an idea we need MFT I want to MFT hoodies that say keep it relational. Yeah, and I just wanted to add like Yuri Mark and Dr Austin talk about like the Iona the experience and the mission. And I think that interview was really a reflection of do I really want to be in this field and the importance of the field to it was representation like you said I was trying to find the word I was like but you nailed it it was a representation as I was asked like but why but what's wrong with your community you know because I wanted to come in and you know being I would have found the therapy and those the goal to bring in community here and then transfer back home and three the relational part it was very acceptable which I came from like a 9 to 5 state agency job where you really had to be professional ever my six months old daughter to cry and Dr. Bern actually interviewed me and he's like it's OK you can have her you can give her the press will we have this interview you know this is a family therapy I was like wow you know and then moving along through like the years of master the leadership of the faculty it's really like a lead by example motor like our professors here had a career and not only just talking to prepare for the world but the world that seen the broad it in so we could become better and really think and analyze every paper every book every discussion that we have just to take the field further and this is where I'm very grateful to like really have gone through I own a program. I definitely feel proud and I'm a little jealous in a way because the next class the next question we have so the program is going to curriculum redesign and what inspired those changes and where were you hoping to achieve for students with the design and the profession. I saw some things I was like oh man I was I don't know how that would be with their. You know you are correct and it's it's been a lot of work and things to incredible teams of faculty member people like Mark Dr. he we had also Dr. T. C. I. Wells was around with us as a as a visiting professor and Dr. Burns myself and also like let's also shout out the dean of the New York New York Pacific area in the school of our sciences Dr. Cavitor and the matter she has been very supportive of the program and so I mean she came on when I became the program leader and in the middle of us I mean became the program director which is a program leader I guess in the middle of us making that transition we are we're also in the middle of like getting recredited for cool and empty and so I mean one of the things that people really appreciate about our program is also because it's one of the accredited programs in New York State and so every seven years we have to get reacredited and the process is very rigorous and it's very very rigorous and we had to really show them that what we're saying we're teaching in our curriculum is matching what the curriculum is showing and what's been done on ground. However there was a lot of changes that needed to be made just because we wanted to make sure that we get reacredited and at the same time in the middle of all of that New York State brought up this whole like all mental health professional programs needs to be 60 credits and at that time we were 54 credit so we needed to like revamp our program right so there was a lot of change that was happening so we had to decide do we do bits by bits changes or do we just do a wholesale change under curriculum so when Tuesday afternoon we're like okay wholesale changes which is a lot of work because we had to basically read and figure out all of our courses align them with just really the core empty competencies right in terms of really training systemic relational theories right assessment and diagnosing making sure that we're also teaching our students who have like to work with diverse and all of this we already have in our curriculum but we needed to strengthen it more so we have to look at courses that we have and courses that we don't have and courses that we need to strengthen so we did a lot of that work and then we have to take it to the state as well for the New York State board to also approve it so it was a process of a year I feel like we are for two years we're always like what next what next do we need to do we have deadlines we have deadlines so I mean I feel like we did a really good job because we really wanted to strengthen the program right I have to just hearing all that it I have to acknowledge is all the hard work that Dr. Allison has done during that time in having stepped into just a space where there was such a learning or stepping into program director role on her own there are a lot of programs out there that have an assistant program director maybe two or some other support and at the time it was her and I had somewhat recently stepped into the clinical director role so we're like hi nice to meet you we have a lot of work to do here but I so I just really want to acknowledge all the time and energy and effort and lots of difficult conversations that were had around that time to get the program to where it is now and I think we also left out the piece that we moved campuses right during all of this as well and and to also just go back to the whole keeping it relational from start to end for students even through a lot of this as best as we and really mainly you could the efforts to keep the changes that were happening relational in terms of using and and asking for student feedback was really vital we couldn't always do it yeah that's just the nature of the work that we do and all the layers of it but a lot of these adjustments and changes really came through the work here and the feedback of the students and a lot of students who are in this time period of major change and they really worked with us very well to kind of push through a lot of hard challenges because you both know the sacrifices needed in a program like this where it's a clinical graduate training program not just a graduate program yeah thank you Mark for saying that I appreciate your kind of word and I also want to just really thank you for being there like Mark said like we really didn't know each other and it was just like hey we got this work we need to do and just really working together we've been he's been a great team member I really appreciate that and like as a team we've really worked well together so look at the look how we deliver the flowers here I love it yeah and all this is important yeah and I also wanted to add in terms of like I mean I really appreciate it that time with the students who are now alone right it was I remember we had to have several difficult conversation about schedule changes and about what the students want and what the program can actually deliver and also we're listening to the alarm too because the reason why we move from a just in person program to a hybrid program was because a lot of our students in years before some of them live in Connecticut, New Jersey so driving along this dance of people like to take them two hours just to come to campus right and people are staying with staying late till 10 o'clock sometimes on campus and students were like can we kind of change that so we thought okay now that we know that we can do like therapy virtually and we can teach class virtually because of COVID we're like okay let's move to hybrid right you still get that sense of in person and also be able to like also learn online in which we know a profession is moving towards that mental health is moving towards that already where therapy is done virtually so we really wanted to train as students of the dexterity of both right being able to like actually do therapy in person at the IFTC clinic and online at the IFTC clinic as well so so I did visit the clinic that's that's one of the areas right you know I'm jealous about that too I was gonna ask like what was your first impression walking into the Bronx go can't my first impression well I had I had the motion of jealousy first I share we can process you know my first I was I was really blown away it's it's a beautiful site and you know I was gonna ask if you if you could paint the picture for some folks that are listening just from the moment you walk in you know what do you see how do you you know for therapists clinicians merging clinicians how would they feel walking into that space and being their clients in that space that you have the plate therapy room you also have you know I can tell the room for families in terms of space I can tell that it was well thought out but if you could paint a picture for us just describe it take take me back I will always start something like this with a shout out to facilities at Iona and all the support that we've gotten from the dean and everyone else and the development of the center that was involved in that because without them it wouldn't be what it is you both remember you can call and seeing clients there and it was a was the right word planes cozy a time cozy slightly haunted creaky space that's very loved very loved that served many families for many years I mean decades back when it was a maybe even before it was an MFT program I know there were some other sites but when we started working on the design of the space there was this whole section of the downstairs of what's called secret hall now in the Bronxville campus that were I think a bunch of old office office spaces that were kind of broken up in very awkward angle so we worked with facilities to mate to maximize what was already there to create a seven session room clinic where every session room has the ability to be an observation room or an actual session room with the one way mirrors if you remember that's where we had one up there upstairs and so all of them are now equipped for that they are all equipped with the same video recording system so when a student walks in and I've seen a lot of first impressions through open house or just bringing the first years during pre-practic course that haven't seen it before they walk in and they're like wow this is like this is real this is real this is real this is official you're going to be on the other that watching me I'm really anxious right you know they get their anxiety comes up but out of a lot of excitement of from what I've heard students saying that they feel like they really made the right choice in being here because of course there are many programs where students are doing their internship outside of it but to do this work and sometimes see their first clients here at Iona with the comfort of faculty that they have already gotten to know viewing their work and processing all of that before they actually start with their private practice internship or agency internship it the transition of it all I think is really wonderful to hear and to see their response from it. Yeah it's definitely definitely beautiful I do want to go into diagnostic privilege we were talking about some of the changes in your curriculum so what can you speak to with your curriculum to prepare students emerging clinicians to ensure that they have the credentials for diagnostic privilege. That's a good question I will say just that with that we've always had diagnostic training and assessment training course I think you took this. Remember that very well. The combination of like I tried with me and we had to really go through like differential diagnoses and like how do you actually assess a mental health behavioral issue and then we also took relational assessment course to get together where we really went through like how do you know from a systemic lens in both classes how do you assess and diagnose individually relationally as well right so we've always had it I think with this new regulation it just makes us as a program and as a faculty to really look deeper into the curriculum and talk about like what are the stages right in terms of competencies and what we want our students to learn from first year to second year to third year in terms of like assessment and diagnostic skills right and so we've already been doing that I know in the course that mark teachers there. Pre-practice come we we he does a lot of role play so we release that way from that beginning really teaching students. Yes the basics of assessment but however assessment within a relational contacts right when there's mental health issue and now we have I mean the psychiatrist course is still psychopathology right so we really are trying to find that and really trying to even incorporate AI in which the ways in which AI can help you to really learn the processes of differential diagnosing and then in the third year there's a lot of trying to understand relational assessment more like practically and so one of the great things that we have here I you know that we have the interprofessional education your did some of that and so that's working mental health counselor social work and students and speech. So the role team right nursing and working collaboratively so that each student can the dependent on the case right each student independent on their profession and have the scale to be able to connect professionally and really assess and diagnose a case family a couple and individual that might be struggling with mental emotional and relational element or issues that they bring in to the office so I feel like we strengthen it and I think with the help of AI and also the IP we can even do more of that work and we'll continue to do more of that work. No I don't really have too much to add to that it's I think you covered a lot of it yeah. Specific skills or mindset or experience do you believe are non-negotiables for therapists who are being trained in today's world so thinking about your curriculum you know some of the adjustments that you've made to strengthen the program and you know as you see students from their first year and give them their wings they get their wings they fly out there right where some non-negotiables where once they graduate from this M.F.T. program at Iona you they should be able to do competently. I want to touch on one thing you mentioned with AI and I think that there needs to be a very strong respect to what AI can do in good ways within our field and what it can really just take away from helping develop a confident and very good therapist out of here. You know the program has stepped into AI like just myself I'll use it in my class as a ways of being much more efficient in organizing the way that say like I create vignettes for the role plays and the pre practicum students will ultimately do during that class and so they'll play out five sessions worth based off of that vignette that storyline the diagnosis the background all that stuff and being able to use AI really allows me to cover a range I mean a range of contextual factors and things that really blend in well and allow me to focus even more so on the one on one time with each student on processing self of the therapist issues that come up processing how they are looking at differential diagnosis assessment all these other factors so so so there's a good thing there of course and with when we look at progress notes right I think in our field one of the first things that really came out with AI is making our progress notes a lot quicker all of that right yeah and so that's where I get very nervous because we want our our students to be able to think critically and know the steps in the process of how to write notes competently for insurance companies for all of these other things and these are things that we've been trying to add to the program more recently so that they can graduate with a lot of those skills so that those skills can be taken further now when if we don't have too much oversight around this we have to make sure that you know no one is just stepping into chat gbt to do their work and that's that's been a challenge not just for our program for any program to make sure that we're on top of that I think I mean the if I focus on some of the core foundation of the program and of in our mission statement we talk about really training ethical MFT ethical clinicians and I think that's part of it right like really helping our students to have not only understanding of what their obligations and roles are as professionals as mental health professionals who are literally taking care of people's lives people's relationship people's mental emotional and relational well being is really helping them to understand that this is a big responsibility and you need to take it seriously so like one of the non negotiables is and with this misstudents for this like if ethically you're not doing the work that you need to do and you're not you're into the professional course of ethics and just really treating your client with dignity then you don't we don't graduate you right because we don't stamp your your certificate right because we really want you to do go out there and do good work that you're ready doing right and that goes into with the AI too right like not not treat in human beings as if their machines and like getting information from like wherever you want to get it from AI while you're not actually doing that relational and and and healing work with them so we're very big on that and as students actually know this already and they're very open to that as well I think the other non negotiable is like we really want students to have a good identity a confident identity as MFT by Jim family therapy mental health professionals by because this is what is important in terms of really helping the mental health field understand the perspective that we're coming from that we see emotional mental and relational health and even physical health to be all into trying and connected together so that means that our students have to have a good understanding of the systemic theories a good understanding of how their interventions their assessment their diagnosis is connected to systemic theories concepts and understanding and also another non negotiable will be that the students have what is becoming more and more diverse so you have to be able to work with diverse group of people right because you never know who's going to walk into your door it was going to work walk into your office and what they're going to tell you so you have to be able to understand where your own biases are coming from and understand the need that as professional you have the most power in the most responsibility and so therefore you need to be able to really connect for your client by finding out more information about them and so that goes into the self of the therapist work that we do here and I wanted to add that that's very impressive where I only think the program with an AI as a stage representative of like marriage and family therapy I see a lot of the program they have a scarcity was there any process that I own a program where we saw AI as a threat first and how did you move forward with that process just to give me a message to other colleges that are still going under the programming insane that's enough for our therapy students that's a really good question yeah especially because we did that whole fellowship thing you know I don't really have a direct answer for that unless you do but I would be curious to talk a little bit about that fellowship piece yeah so I mean I think when AI became like big I mean people have been known about it as a faculty will like okay this is happening right so what do we do with it yes just like I don't know if you remember it went like Google started and nobody can use the Clif notes anymore the yellow one no wow what are you talking about an undergrad or an ice school no worry I know I know and and then like professors and teachers were like oh no yeah and Wikipedia like all of that right you were really scared about it and I felt like the same thing happened with AI where we're like oh my goodness like people are going to literally students are going to be copying and like you don't even know if that the paper is their paper and we did talk about that I yes this is scary and how do we know like if students are actually doing their work on their own or if they're using chat GPT or other like AI platform to help them and at the same time we saw it as this is also an opportunity to figure out how we can actually train as students to think more critically one of the things I really appreciate about our profession and our and our programs specifically is that we do a lot of process work right like it's like you have to actually think about it yourself you have to have that critical understanding so we're now talking about how do we how do we increase that level even more and the one we're asking for papers right it might be a personal reflection paper versus a research paper how are we asking our students to do that in the classroom and also to like ask them yes you can use AI but what percentage of AI you use and right and to really be transparent about what we expect from them and what they express from us to regarding AI I might tell you about us you know how I have student do creative moments in class so I had I had them do a creative moment on it was a diversity class and so they a group of second year data creative moments on AI and mental health and I thought it was just very informative and like just very helpful to feel because they really talked about yes the importance of AI because people are actually using like chat GBT in order if they have mental health issues right and is that AI therapy that people actually can go through and students really talked about how yes that can be helpful at the same time if we're looking at the cultural aspect of it in terms of like who develops this like the prompt and all the information with AI does it include everyone right and how that can be detrimental to some some clients who might not be represented in terms of like those were developing the systems as well so we can talk about the good aspect of it and the part that might be disadvantages as well and I think that's the way we approach the as a program focus in on the good part and also the part that might be disadvantages so but we can talk about the belly yeah generally we have this opportunity through the university to work on and present on bringing AI into our field we focused on assessment and Gene and Gene of grants more particularly we were looking at what gene of grand programs are out there on on like on a digital platform and we didn't really see too much that was I'm sure you've all exploded to at some point and so ultimately the result was that there isn't something that uses AI that is to a standard that we would be like wow we would want to actually adopt this and teach and show and model to students how to use something like this effectively so we're actually working alongside some partners to develop something within that space and see if that could be piloted through our program so that again out of efficiency and organization and not removing the critical thinking that comes along with that level of assessment right right and I loved it everything that you shared and how accepting and integrating it to like our field a young program was with it but also what you describe if anyone wants to like replay back and listen carefully it's a true example of like open communication is the key right we're not walking away we're not using it as a threat versus like well let's talk about it what are the pros and cons and how we can use it in the best of our field interests like aesthetically and efficiently it's like Dr. Austin said AI is here and it's not leaving yeah yeah and I think if we think about what we do as family therapists is systemically thinking right like this is a new information that's coming into the system right if we decide to say let's just close off and engage with the system we know what's going to happen and we're going to do it. What's going to happen right like we're going to basically collapse right so we need to be able to engage with the new information that's going on and have the ability to say how much information do we want come in in terms of how we use AI and how much do we want to kind of move out from meaning like creating parameters right and we also need to like help our students to be able to engage with it because it's already here. We're going to use it so how do you engage with it more effectively ethically and efficiently so we being transformative also you know having a conversation about how to leverage those resources and that was a great point because there are people who are training you know these these bots and their responses because I've had people mentioned that oh you know I don't have to pay for therapy because on what what's that they have and they have like different tiers of these oh my friend or like my chat like whatever they call them and there's someone that's training and I have to say I did test it out but I was curious I started asking some questions and while it wasn't it was impressive it was impressive up into a certain point where I can tell there's nothing that can be placed on the human connection and just having someone be able to relate to from their own experiences and you know we talked about self of therapists and you know how much we also want to share and relate with our clients that's that's also important so yeah but I did test it out I was like okay you got this one let me ask you this yeah and it doesn't really do the whole systemic relational so there's no there's no MFT behind that so I at least for my experience I'll say that right yeah and I wanted to add that there is already a collapse wave coming through to people by using the AI chat for a therapist where most of them are coming and saying well now you're just telling me what I want to hear because people have tested for so long that they're realizing that there is no replacement no this is going to be I think this is this is an area that I filled mental health feel and specifically we're talking about the MFT field and professional have to come 10 because the relational part of it the systemic part of it is very important we definitely something that as a field as a world we have to really continue to struggle way and find a balance and I appreciate that about training as an MFT the relational and systemic perspective and you know sometimes people ask for you know MFT, social work, mental health and all the same thing I'm like no well it isn't a setting step but no this is what we're trained to do and you know it's not one is better than the other but this is how we take our approach and how we support our clients and so with that being said as we're starting to wrap up this episode what would you say is the proud like your best moment for this program what sets this program apart maybe something you've been hearing from students right I know they get the oozing the eyes when they go into the clinic and you know I mentioned just the diversity and also something that I do want to mention is the work that you're doing outside of Iona right and being able to speak to I remember the first year where students say my goal is I want to become the high-biased private practice and thinking about what platform or path can you set up so that I can establish my own private practice and there's different branches everybody's going into different fields I know there's a lot that was a loaded question there's a lot of things going on I'm just thinking out the top of my head but just think of like a proud moment of proud opportunity or something that sets Iona University's MFT program apart something makes you feel good that's not a face like yeah I did that yeah I was part of it I guess I could see that so one thing that comes to mind is now happen recently just given the time of year that we're at with the pre-practicum course and essentially that's where I help students prepare to see their first clients so we do some classwork we then I then bring them to the clinic like I was talking about before do the role plays really simulate that as real as possible where their classmates are the client actors as a couple or a family and then we do those the whole switching there's what you can imagine there's a lot of nerves lots of anxiety lots of all of this stuff I'm recording all of it I'm giving feedback every session after each one self of the therapist work so it's a very very packed five to six weeks of the end of that semester now for those that then opt to start seeing clients in the summer that's going to be session number one we all remember our first hour right that we get to log the moments that really hit me hardest and why I love this work is to get that text message from a student I just had my first client you know whether it's a thank you to the work I was doing with them or just a comment of it all clicked all it all clicked all at once or I found myself rambling but I do understand what I have to do for session two or you know all these other things just hearing that from the students just really reminds me that I'm doing what I want to be doing in this training space in this field to really help in my little part of the next generation that's moving forward I appreciate sharing that mark mark has done an incredible job and like so amazing like the role play the role play the students really look forward to it and it's been a joy to watch the excitement and to also watch their confident grow as they do the role play and like them of feedback that you give them and to say hey I am ready and I am prepared to actually see my first client even though I am nervous but I'm still I know I've gotten what I need and I feel like it's also one of the things that makes me excited the third year because as students everyone that wants to just graduate and this may just they just feel they feel prepared they felt like they know what they get in into and they feel like they have the tools and we've given them the tools and they've also developed the tools because they have it within them already we're just like help them to like amplify some more so they they feel like they're prepared so that makes me excited thinking adding to that is just really the diversity of the program like when I think about it I feel like this is the type of program that in terms of diversity that I experienced but then when I think about my own education like being able to see myself in my professors and also in my other classmates that was very very important and it's really incredible to see how our students in terms of their ethnicity, their race, their class, their lived experiences, sexual orientation, religion, it's very diverse which brings an incredible level of like richness and human learning in the classroom right because we're talking about human experiences as therapists that's what we're dealing with we're dealing with human experiences and the dignity of humans right and in the classroom we have all of that and it's so incredible to see the richness of it and to also see the clashes right because there's always going to be tension but to be able to walk through it together and still be in relationship with each other which is what we're training the students right that there's always going to be a relational difficulty and how do you still be in relationship with the people that you might disagree with so it's incredible to see that and to see that reflected on flip side with the faculty member like we're very diverse I really appreciate a level of like lived experiences and a level of expertise as well which also as a faculty I think every single one of us like since Marigain Family Therapist and so we also have our own clinical like experiences and like expertise and and some of us are researchers as well so it's incredible to see how we're able to connect both the clinical work that we do outside of training, be able to bring it here and it informs our research as well so so those things like make me very proud of like this program lots of exciting things to come see these smiles over here a lot of fun and I'd like to add just thinking back to the program one of the errors that I really appreciate and valued was you all pushing us right not being afraid to push us and that's something that I really go by now just stepping outside of your comfort zone so yes bearing through those uncomfortable moments of silence and those difficult conversations to essentially challenge some of your thoughts right because at the end of the day it's really when that client is sitting in front of you how do you not project that first thing is identifying that you have that certain type of bias or whatever the case may be but really challenging us to be better versions of ourselves first right because I believe that has to be in place before you can really become a really good clinician and there are plenty of moments are I sat there I said this I walk out it was yeah I was the one commuting to Connecticut it was that home and getting back but on the drive home I just remember always feeling empowered and it was a hour of moments of empowerment on that drive back and it felt good because that's that's where the growth happens and that's you know what I would share is just one of my most valuable moments graduating from the program she didn't have some missing yeah any moments definitely moments and I was thinking I was like hmm maybe there are like students that that had my experience like you said like when you drive home you were very empowered I was the one student when I'll drive home I'll be very challenged or frustrated I'd be like you know because I was that person maybe that I came to a point of my life where I was like okay I'm ready for this I'm ready for this and I thought that everybody else was trying to be to turn the lights over me which was really good and I really appreciate that because if I hadn't done that work through the program is like where else and how would you be able to perform now I see like the performance but like being a student was very refresher you because I had to deal with my own emotions but my own life things that I didn't want to see just I will need to grow professionally and if at the time is a student I thought that everybody was working against me to hold me back when I graduated I remember working to the campus and saying you know what I came here so small and became so big you know like that was like my empower moment and specially going in the field and being trained and challenged like you said that's where the growth really happens and I truly appreciate that like I said like during the program was like really a challenge but everything it's not against you but it's for you to really step out the comfort zone definitely great great moments here well I thank you all for being here with us in this episode we'll be sure to send or have the link to one the article congratulations again and also some additional information about the program and the upcoming upcoming year awesome thank you both thank you both for having us nice see thank you for being here and sharing the experience and welcome thanks for joining us on the Empire State of MFT with my co-host Inetimo who's the chair of the New York Margin Fund third-party network today's conversation with Dr. Christiana and I was on and work for Nandez at Ijona University gave us insight into what makes the MFT program the number one ranked in New York for 2025 to learn more about Ionis and the T4 round check out the links below and if you enjoyed the episode please like share and subscribe to stay updated with future conversation thanks for listening and we'll see you next time