SEASON 2 #1: How Technology Can Help Shift Healthcare from Reactive to Proactive, with Graham Russel from Talius

Welcome to the Regional Health Solutions Podcast powered by Stadham. We're your hosts, William Hunt and Jaden Frame. Welcome back to the Regional Health Solutions Podcast. I'm William Hunt. I'm here with Jaden Frame and we're both thrilled to be back for season 2. Over the next six episodes we're continuing to do what we set out to do. Which is shine a light on the real practical solutions that are being developed and deployed across Australia to tackle some of the most pressing challenges that are facing our health and aged care systems. We've got a great line up of conversations ahead. Kicking us off today is Graham Russell, the founder of Talias. Talias is a real-time health monitoring platform that's doing something genuinely exciting in the aged care and home care space. What Talias has built is essentially an operating system for care. It aggregates data from disparate IOT sensors, wearables and monitoring devices into a single platform. It uses AI power algorithms to move health care from reactive to proactive. So instead of waiting for a crisis, Talias is designed to identify that something might be wrong before it actually becomes one. With partnerships with some of Australia's biggest aged care providers, Graham has a front row seat to the challenges and the opportunities in regional health care. So of course Jaden I will be very keen to sit and hear his insights into the space. We're also pleased to share that Stadham and Talias are now working together as partners in the Darling Down region as part of our technology pillar. This episode gives you a real sense of why we're excited about that partnership. So let's get into it. Here's our conversation with Graham Russell from Talias. Graham, thanks for coming on the Regional Health Solutions podcast. Thanks Will. Great to be here. Maybe just give us a quick rundown of your background in the pathway to where you found yourself in the seat that you're in. Well, I'm a by trade I'm electronics technician. So I actually started on the tools. I was 19 and worked in predominantly the electronic security industry, installing sensors and so forth in banks and then financial institutions and in businesses and in homes and so forth. We then started to get a number of inquiries and calls from business owners that were having challenges inside their businesses. Usually particularly around workflows and those workflows, whereas it, you know, Graham, this is not being done. This person's not doing what they're supposed to do. How do we stop it? I used to get called in particularly when there was obviously a big expense around that. So, you know, someone had died, someone had been injured, some, you know, huge expense, something of some mistake. And that was usually things like someone hasn't checked the turbine on the power station. Someone hasn't checked the drugs fridge and we've lost all of the medication, IVF clinics all across these different sectors. And we used to implement sensors in a way that would actually ensure that that was being done. And that was sort of my evolution into healthcare. So I'm starting to do work in hospitals and aged care. When you look at regional rural healthcare, where do you see that heading in the next five to ten years under the current structures and processes? What you thought on that? Well, it's not politically correct, but I'm obviously greatly, greatly concerned. Obviously, living in regional coins land myself and seeing, like, you know, having the fortune of part of actually working in the cities, but I see the same problem in the cities as regional areas. It's all about people and we don't have enough resources. I'm not seeing that we're actually making any real change. And it's like, sort of, would probably reterize us that there hasn't been any real adoption. It's a good adoption to innovate or change how we're doing things. And, you know, it's a definition of insanity if you keep doing what you're doing. And, you know, the health systems are currently under enormous pressure currently and with the aging population coming. Like, of skills, I just see that we are going to face a very, very tough five years. I read a article from Bernard Salt, the demographer, the other day, and he, I think he went a little bit over the top, but he said that this will be the greatest crisis to humanity ever. Wow. Like, he was like, he's saying the numbers that are coming will absolutely be everything else that we've ever faced. I think the black plague might have him on that, but the thing is, but like he is talking about that when I'm experiencing now in hospitals of 110% capacity, we're putting safety solutions in for frontline care staff that are being physically and verbally abused because of wait times lack of response and resources who are then resigning. So, and we've got already about like seven or eight thousand shortage of nurses. We can't get doctors in regional areas like the wait times. I know you will know this, but it's just, I think it's probably important for the listeners to really see us as that, you know, whatever you do, stay healthy. One of the most common questions we ask all our guests is what the single biggest challenge you for see is facing rule and regional health care today. And I'm going to put some things together that you've gone through. So there's catastrophic events that you alluded to earlier that you were brought it on, which is a manual process. Yes. You're talking about a people shortage and an overwhelmed system who are responsible for those manual processes. And without, probably without putting the words in your mouth and having seen a number of tallies as presentations and knowing that we're now a partner. I know that manual process is what you see as the villain. Yes. So again, without putting words in your mouth, is that what you for see is the single biggest challenge facing everyone in every industry today? But let's specifically talk about health care. How do you frame that problem and what do you for see? Let's start to talk about some of the solutions as well. The tallies is looking out. Well, I think the biggest problem is actually preparation. We are not prepared. And we knew it was coming for 20 years. And we haven't done anything. And it's too late. The sharks are circling. We haven't got enough beds enough people or enough money. So what is the alternatives? I think it's like any challenge that we've had previously is that it usually alludes back to leads back to technology. And this is an industry in a sector. Well, you know, the healthcare sector has been very adverse to technology because this is the way we've always done it. And through that manual model is that there's nothing wrong with the manual model. It does work. It's just very repetitive. There's very poor data capture. It's very expensive. And the problem is that when you do processes like this that are very repetitive, you also become very people familiar, you know, already creates complacency. And that complacency creates some mistakes. And this is where we're now going right. Well, the first person's making a mistake. Let's get another person to check that person's work. So we now become even more inefficient in the labor resources that we have. And there's also been a number of key things that have, I suppose, happened over the last three or four years around technology. Is that the incredible increases in connectivity. So we're all seeing it from our cars and phones and homes and so forth from Starlink, which has been a transformational for rural and regional areas. And the big thing is that what Talias is about is actually trying to create real time information and data. Like Talias is really a real time health monitoring platform or an operating system. So instead of waiting for a manual process, which goes into a notes or a report, which is obviously very helpful. When we've a so time poor, we can't even look at the notes. And so I often refer that to a little bit like the black box and a plane. All that data is going into that information system and it's great. But like the plane, we don't look at it until the plane's crashed. And then we say, where do we miss it? Whose fault was it? And I can blame someone. So stripping this back to the basics, perhaps for the listener who's joining us, who has never heard of Talias before today. How would you give the elevator pitch for Talias and try and flesh that out a little bit for them? What does it do and what have you done? And go step further, what innovation is Talias bringing to try and tackle some of those healthcare challenges? So what we identify is just like the manual processes is the problem. Second thing is that data is obviously very important. We're already drowning in data. There's already already overwhelming amounts of it. What Talias has done is actually brings in real time all of that data together and aggregates it. And then we analyze it and then we create an action out of it. So to dumb that down a little bit is that we basically bring in a lot of cases sensor data. So for example, from wearables, so from sleep. monitoring from falls, from glucose. And this is the problem is that you might have an amazing, um, was it the Dixcon glucose meter, which has an app. Reggie glucose and creates an alert, which doesn't go any way. Okay. And then there's another one for your pacemaker. There's another one for your sleep. And there's another one for falls. There's another one for nurse call. And there's another one for, and you're seeing where I'm heading with this is that it's all disparate and none of it's together. And this is a problem for the healthcare spaces. How am I supposed to scale this across? So tell you some, um, primarily started off in home care. And so we saw that the, I suppose a bit of a personal mission for myself is after spending a lot of time in, in hospitals and residential aged care was how could we empower people to stay at home longer? And obviously still respecting privacy and dignity, we utilized, um, a number of IOT sensors. So for anyone who doesn't know IOT is the internet of things, which are tiny sensors that collect tiny pieces of data. So instead of a human coming in collecting and driving to a home and collecting all that information, we have a number of disparate IOT sensors. So from an Apple watch to a sleep sensor that sits on the underneath the leg of the bed to some sensors that will collect activities of daily living, vital signs, weight, movement, and also in and out of the home. That information is compiled in the Tally's platform. And then we partnered with CSIRO a number of years ago and worked with the EHealth Division of Queensland who patented a special algorithm that actually analyzes that data. And that data algorithm actually will create a preel that so identifies as that this person is struggling. And probably I'd like to reiterate is that one of the key parts that I've seen for health care and across most of your primary services is that we react. We only react. We're always the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Instead of being the options of how do we actually stop this happening. Listen, you're always going to do the ambulance and you're always going to need that reactive response. But how do we actually identify an issue before it happens? So from there we've, Tally says basically developed a B2C, the B2B2C model. And so it's really great to be here today and having Statum is one of our platinum partners in the Daling Downs area to help support this technology adoption. But we have over the last five years partnered with probably half the top 10 providers. So, Bolton, Clark, Ferris, Anglicare, Royal Frame Asans, Benetas, keep going, you're nighting. We're in New Zealand working with St John's ambulance over there. So we've already got about 50,000 subscribers now on the platform. And we're aggregating all that data, creating a proactive alert, and then identifying care teams. I'll wear that support. This is to the point where what you're saying is that how do we triage and utilize the resources, the limited resources we have to actually get them to respond to the right place at the right time. That's one of the biggest selling points in my opinion is that the spirit systems creates multiple dashboards and fragmented information in a hospital or an aged care facility or whatever organization you represent. And there's an ex-exec on a private hospital, you'd often go down that branding commitment and then it would be a buried entry. You rusted on to Drago or MINDRA or GE or pick your pool and into paraphrase what you were saying. If I got this right, it's pulling that fragmented data together agnostically to create a hospital or an aged care dashboard where you don't have to reactively treat or make decisions. You can proactively manage what data is out there so that you become more efficient and it abolishes those manual tasks alongside that. So that's a huge selling point. I'm going to go off piece here a little bit. I'm interested what role AI has to play in this, we're living in the AI revolution at the moment. Is that starting to be smuggled into the platform and what impact is that having at the moment? Yes, so it's obviously the big buzzword at the moment. All intelligence is that it needs to be measured on how affectivities. We are using it quite significantly. To give you an analogy a little bit of how we're using AI is if I could use, you often use a car analogy. We all remember our grandfather who before he drove to town used to check the oil in the water. That's what I call a manual process. He kicked the tyres and checked the cars going to be, it's going to make it town. I now sort of say I've got four kids that have them probably don't know how to open the bonnet, let alone check the oil. So what's changed is that we've advanced and put sensors in the car that comes to a dashboard that creates the alert. So talious and so like a car is that everyone's got different cars. Those car manufacturers aren't making those sensors. So they're coming from seam and Bosch wherever. But what they do is they aggregate them together to create the alerts. Now what we have found is we've progressed. This is an obviously a part of what's datum. We're excited about you coming on as a partner with your clinical experience. What's the information that we're now presenting is that we noticed, for example, last night that this resident didn't sleep well. So they slept for six hours while I normally sleep for nine. They went to the toilet seven times more where they normally go three. They haven't got this morning for breakfast and they haven't had their medication. Talious is detected that like a car would. There's a lot. Yeah, sometimes we obviously know in our car that we have to go out and check the oil. In this information it is quite powerful for a clinician to look at that and they'll understand very quickly but this is wrong. But because we haven't got those resources, this is where the AI is coming in. The AI is analysing the clinical data and actually providing the questions and the evidence and also making a recommendation to that carer to inquire or investigate what might be more underlying to the other parts on AI is I don't think like, you know, we're all using chat GPT and we're all thinking how this is amazing and it's really impressive. What we're excited about with Talious is that we think we can cut the AI the data up because we're really a massive data repository. So I can take the sleep data and put that into an AI and I can take the heart rate sleep data and we're seeing some amazing innovations. So, at University in Japan has been doing research on, you know, that and will you know this better than I do, but a lot of people die of a heart attack in the early hours of the morning. They have found a simulation is that if your rest rate and heart rate drop from 2 to 6 a.m. then you don't know exact numbers but you are 80% more at risk of heart attack in the next 90 days. So that's where I'm coming from is prediction to get that checked out so that person doesn't end up in emergency department. You go back to the challenges of the health industry and we hear it all the time. How do we get more nurses? How do you solve the workforce issue? And there's an element of what we do around attraction to the regions. There's an element around upskilling and bringing more clinicians to the table. But there's an element of we need to become more efficient and an element of we need to actually free up the beds. So going back to the free up the beds in the more efficient process, that's effectively what Tallyus is doing, isn't it? It's freeing the beds up and it's making workforce more efficient to get more out of the workforce that's currently there and getting them to do the more high value tasks and that's what you're talking around with the prediction models. It's pretty exciting here. Well, I think it's also two parts to that is that why are they leaving? And why does anyone want to come? So it's great that you work you doing about attracting people to their spokes and it's a very noble profession and I find a lot of it it uses that is the compliance and the governance that we've implemented because of the fear that's going people is like I'm always looking over my back. I can't do my job. I'm spending 30 to 40 percent of my time writing notes about what I'm supposed to be doing or what I've done instead of doing it. I don't know about anyone like if you brought these type of things into other industries, you'll have exactly the same effect. And so what Tallyus does is through the sensor data is significantly reduce that requirement. So I don't need to say a couple of use cases. So in aged care, we have a special sensor that uses a magnet that attaches to the big current business model is staff rounding. So every three to four hours, every night, the nurse is to go into every room and check if the resident is in bed asleep and alive. Now that's a compliance and governance piece which is great. Seems like a great idea. It's come from hospital and it's now in aged care which is a pretty flawed model. So the idea is that one you're now disturbing the resident's sleep. Secondly the staff are doing the same thing four times a night, every night, for the last year which then creates complacency around the familiarity and the thing is that we haven't got any real data out of anyway. So with this sensor we're saying is that you can now sit in the nurse's station. You don't get the night off because the sensor will show that every resident's in bed a sleep, breathing and alive 24/7. So your current model would take eight to nine hours of labour and you'd have three minutes of data per resident. You've now got a sensor that would have an ROI in about six days. That's continually monitoring it. It doesn't like I know this things like it will that this seems like common sense but this is the the challenge that we're facing is but we've always done it this way. This is the adoption. It's going on that the innovation barrier. There's of people to adopting is phenomenal and an example, a real example is we've presented around to a health provider around a software platform, TrendKey. Good platform does a good job when you identify the efficiencies it can be used by getting the sensor data and putting it through TrendKey. The barrier that I experienced first hand that no TrendKey is really good. You know, well it is really good but you physically got to put the data in there and if you can have that manual process automated it's going to be better and faster but yet the barrier of health institutions to adopt that is it common across industry do you think? Not I haven't seen an industry as tough as this one. So like obviously I had some experience of doing a lot of innovation across other industries. And you know, a couple of examples is one that I actually find is quite similar is that for anyone remembers in the 90s, security guards used to put little pieces of paper in the door to see if you've been broken into. That was that sounds a bit like a spot check aged care home and they would actually come three times a night and put a piece of paper in the door. It never stopped anyone breaking in. They would just wake you up in the middle of the night and tell you you've been broken into. So what has happened or changed is that that became so cost prohibitive. It wasn't effective. So the industry said well you need something better because I'm still getting broken into. I'm spending $1,500 of working on security guard. This is crazy. So we put a sensor that was on there 24/7 and then we identify and create a proactive alert to a responder to come and check it. So that's one example of an industry is that so no one sees the pieces of paper anymore and no one even sees security guards. Obviously video and artificial intelligence videos change as well. But no one wants that in their home. No one wants that in their hospital room or the residential aged care room which is understandable. So we have to use, we just utilize other sensors that collect that data in a different way. I want to keep talking about the change management process in a second but I do want to just circle back to what you were talking about before which is the efficiency that that brings and it's a double benefit. When we're talking about work for shortage, the double benefit being and probably I should have also said that the caveat is we're not suggesting that this is replacing people. This is bringing efficiency to a system on reducing the manliness of some of these tasks. So the double benefit for me would be that you get more efficiency in the tasks that are required. So fewer lab hours required for the tasks which means you can divert those lab hours to more yield or hire or more for yield meaningful tasks. The second part of that double benefit is talk about workforce attrition. Anyone who I've ever seen resign or reach burnout and I don't say that lightly, are the top of people who come in and they're consistently giving 100 percent but not achieving 100 percent. Correct. And over time that will wear even the best workforce down to the point that they feel like that they have to leave their position because they're not contributing meaningful work, not for lack of trying. So having these more efficiencies in their job and their tasks means that satisfaction and meaning for us of their job goes up and you reduce the tuition. So I can see a double benefit of why this would help. I want to come back to the affecting change in any industry but the sense you said is that the healthcare industry seems to be a little bit more reversed to adopting that change. I don't know if you've got an exact reason for this. Is it litigious reasons? Is it nostalgia or sentimentality that people hold on to tradition? What's the barrier? I think they've all had technology that hasn't worked in the past. And so that becomes a concern. It's skeptical. Skeptical? I think also is that like everyone talks about they want change but no one personally wants to go through the process. And so that's been a big part of what we've been trying to develop is that you can't implement technology that creates any more work. It has to remove work. You might say the technology is better and it's going to deal better job but if it creates more work on an already overbird in the workforce you're going to have a lot of pushback. I would say there's probably been a couple of little things that have been a problem like particularly residential aged care. A lot of them didn't even have Wi-Fi until a couple of years ago. And that was pushed through and I'd probably say a lot of the change that we've seen has been implemented has been actually government lead. So they actually forced aged care to implement electronic medical records. So we're only talking like in the last 12 months. They've actually moved from pen and paper to electronic medical records to implement that they needed Wi-Fi. And so some of the technology that we've done is that what we've been used to in our business environment is Wi-Fi everywhere. We're talking eight or eight months ago they didn't have any like assisting in saying. So they're still using paper by systems. We see them the other part is the staff turnover is a huge challenge. So you've trained and implemented this technology within 12 months. You could have nearly 80% turnover of that site. So that's a complete retraining and re-implementation of all that. And that's we see a lot of that from our workforce division that a number of nurses come because they've burnt out and they want work-life balance and they're happy to work with they are or not and they want to have the flexibility to work wherever they want when they want and get that balance. So it seems the irony I suppose that we're actually trying to stop that from a starting point of view comes to the way our Wi that we're trying to increase the livability of our regional centres by improving the sustainability and if we can take that clinical compliance and that and that love for the workplace and give that back to the workplace and they retain their staff then everyone wins. And that seems counterproductive from a starting point of view to try and reduce the agency cost in a facility. But that's effectively what we're trying to do to make it a better place to work and make them more profitable which again I always say profit and health isn't a bad word because if you're not making profit you can't you can't help it. Absolutely. It's all profit for purpose. Yeah, 100%. So when you're talking to if you had the year of government or CEOs or industry change agents I suppose what would you be asking them or what would you make around how you can improve the system? Well the government is trying to and you can see that what's happened out of the Royal Commission they have put a number of measures in place. So NCL adage you can't improve what you can't measure and what talous does is allows them to measure for the first time. As we talked about there's a lot of data already there. Yeah we're finding is that they're so busy that they're not actually utilizing the data that they're collecting. They're not actually using it. I use analogy saying is that you know we're giving them the P&L of their business the profit and loss and they're not even looking. What is doing you know the best we can and the best we can is sort of like a old care but no responsibility. I'm not saying they're not being responsible. It's just yet again is is that you know to give you an example of to your point around the profit like I wanted to give you a real case that sleep sense so that we've implemented we did it for one site. So 139 bed aged care home within four months so after the we monitored before we put it in we monitored after we put it in. We had a 20% percent reduction in labor required to do the rounding because of the sense that was doing it. We had a 24 percent, I think it was of people reduced getting out of bed at night time. So the thing is if I don't come into your room three times tonight I don't wake you up so you don't get out of bed. Now the thing is that we didn't expect is that we reduced falls by 24 percent because they didn't get out of bed to fall over. And the last one is that we got 80 percent better data of what was actually going on for that resident because we haven't got the continuity of care. We don't even know if they've slept badly was the medication working. All of these other compounding issues. But so we then said let's take that one staff member from the night time shift and move them to the morning shift where we know still the skin tears were happening because everyone was rushing. So we were able to reduce falls and reduce wound management with a sensor that took a week to pay off. So what is the the barriers? It's education about what is possible what can be done. So the implementation of this is that I go into so I travel all over OPEC every week. You know sitting next week, melon the week after meeting aged care executives and educating them about IoT sensors, what they can do and how we can actually improve their operations. Once we get past the initial barrier is quite exciting to see the care teams go this is going to make my life easier. I don't have to do as many notes. I don't have to do these you know boring tasks. They actually feel a little bit more protected because there's a lot of I've gone and seen mum and she says that you're not doing this and you're not doing that you're not doing this which creates the investigation and the staff members feel like why I'm doing that. 80% of the clients have got some level of dementia so they've done you know they don't know how they feel. So this information is just usually real data. And that's touching on the clinical benefit or the downstream benefits to the residents and the patients. We talked about the efficiency benefits and the staff satisfaction benefits which which are quite much to a dollar saving. You know as we're recording this the aged care act has been postponed but but is due to go live with its effect on November 1 2025. And arguably the biggest change in amongst that I think will be in the community care space. Those who are on support packages and the compliance to those strength and standards I think is what's keeping a lot of executives and senior leadership teams up at night. Talias and just double down on that clinical compliance base. Full master immediately helps me pretty much every standard. Yes. Yes I think we meet I think nine of the standards in the residential aged care and all of the ones in the new home care standards. As you're saying is that the problem for executives is that they have no visibility. Yeah. They don't even know if their clients are alive or dead and they're completely relying on the information that's been provided by a lot of cases. You know team members or staff members is that you know that are under a lot of pressure that they can miss things. So to come back to your big part is that Talias is about giving the visibility to obviously get the right person the right place the right time. I also agree is that community care is going to change dramatically. So where's we started is that there's not enough hospital beds. We're already 110% capacity and we haven't even started the aging population. There's not enough residential aged care facilities. I think they take around six to seven years for a DA. So there's no way we're going to be able to build them. We are going to be hospital in the home. Yeah. And this is going to compound. Yeah. Probably one of the best things I've seen is that it the Talias options thread the needle very well of giving that visibility and solace that the person is as a pretty low baseline but they're alive but they're well and that their clinical indicators are being met. But the needle threading exercise is also not overstepping and having an interruption to the person's privacy and confidentiality and dignity. So we're not suggesting you know full blonde cameras as these products. These are sensors that can pick up patterns have a baseline in specific to the individual and much to what we're talking about earlier having AI and algorithms involved that actually say hey this person is deviating from their baseline. We're just triggering a proactive response to go and have a look and assess them and intervene if necessary. Correct. That also then allows us to use all of the allied health services. So to Jadon's question before the government is actually very aware of this. You know what is what is about $5,000 a day for a hospital bed? $1,000 or a bit under a $1,000 a day for a residential aged care. So they were like if I can keep people at home as long as possible that is a huge saver for the government. So the government with these new supported home rules have actually implemented a assistive technology funding just for this technology going. I think they obviously can see what it can do and if we can get that visibility the providers from there can also then utilize the allied health services to support the person at home and also to move them through the packages system with real data to move them from a package 2 to 4 to 6. And every jungle drum is beating in that direction that I hear as well. And to your point, blindly building hospital beds or aged care beds, particularly in rural and regional spaces is not going to be the answer. We have to figure out innovative ways to look after people in their home. I want to lead on to the future because we think we've framed the problem nicely and what Talia said is a solution. What I want to try and crystal ball a little with you is what trends are you seeing in digital health and workforce models or technology that are going to have impact on the sustainability of regional health care and also you know what untapped opportunities as well do you see there that perhaps you're moving into. The law that's disappointing for me is we have used like you know obviously after COVID we all went to Zoom teams, Google Meet, all of that. And the great thing is that we've continued with it except for health care. They just implemented the technology, we're using it very well and putting it out there and then says it was finished, it's very quickly just gone again. So me is that the biggest area that we need to implement in adopt is telehealth, which is going to be just crucial for regional and rural areas is that you've got the tyranny of distances is the biggest problem for us of we can't get a doctor there, we've got people driving from you know, quilper you all the way to Brisbane for specialist appointments, which is a huge toll on them health wise, going to waiting rooms where they're going to get infections with other things and is that you know I just can't I can't believe like it will come back because it will be forced to. I see a business model in the sector that's holding on to labour hours. They're going I need to build as many hours as I can so I can get the money from the government. They're not utilizing or thinking it smartly and going okay this carer can do six home care visits today. Only if it's at that time will we spend in logistics and driving to the site and we'll have 20% of care. If they actually use the technology we could actually do a hundred visits by telehealth from an office and make more money than we did on the six but they're just not you know utilizing the data and the technology to facilitate it. You know I'm not saying that there's a lot of value in that person having this face to face. I'm just saying that we need to read frame it and so I've often said if you came to me when I'm 90 or 85 or whatever and said I want to look after your home care we're going to do four visits a day through telehealth and check on you. We've saved four hours of labour in doing that and we'll come up sick year on Friday and we'll take you out for three hours. So would you prefer 15 minutes of a rushed visit or three hours of quality time and that's the example you're not changing or using technology to diminish the care you're actually empowering a lot of life. Yeah and without getting into that trench and more of a comment than a question if COVID taught us anything we can mobilize on mass scale to problem solve. Absolutely. And I think the crisis at the moment has changed from pandemic to workforce or efficiency or in this case it's the underlying manual process which is you know crowding all these ripple effect problems so it's sad if it has to reach crisis point for us to mobilize on mass but we know we can do it. Yeah and like we are working with some really innovative early adopters that are actually seeing this as an opportunity like you know I don't want to get on the bandwagon about this but it's the like you know It's been tough, healthcare hasn't it, though, for particularly age care, we've gone through just health of COVID, then we've gone through the Royal Commission and then changes after changes and delays of laws and so forth. It's just been four years of just continual. And the reality is there's no metaphorical big red button out there that we're going to press and reset everything to 2018, 2019. So it's going to be innovation and it's going to be technology. I agree with you in my opinion that is going to solve this. Intelligence is an enormous leap. I believe to make this happen. We're incredibly appreciative of your time, Graham. I just want to wrap up by asking, is there any closing comments or thoughts that you wanted to add that we haven't touched on? No, thanks very much for inviting me along. I think it's been great. Yeah. And I think what you guys are doing is really a big part of what is needed to educate and communicate that there is another way. And I think collectively it is that to your point, we'll like everything we've done. You start with one thing and if we do one thing in a hundred days time, this is very different to where it is now. And we just start with one piece of data and how we use it. The second piece and the third piece to the current allergy. There was one red light saying there's something wrong with your car. Yeah, there's like 47 lights there. So same concept. Graham, it takes courage to innovate and courage to innovate in health care with your own dollar. So make congratulations and thank you and it's been a pleasure. Thanks, Shane. Thanks for all. Thanks, man. If you want to operate a health facility on the Dalling Damned, if you want more information on how tellers can help you feel free to call the Statum office on 4.589-0000 and ask the Jaden Orwell. Stay connected with the conversation about enhancing livability through sustainable health care solutions for regional Australia. Visit statum.com.au/podcast to learn more, connect with this and join the movement towards a healthier future for our regional communities.