Season 1 Review - So, What is Social Work?

(upbeat music) - Hey there and welcome to the Social Work Cafe podcast. This is a light-hearted educational series fueled by coffee and conversation where we answer the question, what is social work? So go brew your favorite drink, tell everyone you are doing some professional development and come join me, Dr. B, in the Social Work Cafe. (bell rings) - Welcome everyone to this very, very special episode and the final episode of season one. It is my great joy to introduce you to a very dedicated listener, Casey Henshaw. How you doing, Casey? I'm good, Bernie, how are you? - Fabulous. Although we were just before we had recording, we did talk about rather than having say, cut the tea or coffee, maybe we should have made up cocktails or mocktails. And that's really on my brain now, that idea. 'Cause we are recording this in the evening. It's a heatwave here in lovely Australia. So yes, some of joy to be had isn't it? Great time of the day and eat you to be doing this episode. So to give people some context, why am I here with Casey? Basically Casey emailed me earlier this year, when I can't remember, it was many months ago actually. It was actually pretty early on when the show even started. - Yeah, I'm a bit of a go-getter. Let's just do it. (laughing) So Casey basically sent me this absolute lovely email and anyone who sends me a lovely email, I've caused fire a little way to keep for future reference anyway. But she said that she's enjoyed listening to the show and if I ever needed guests, she'd be happy to come on. And I of course responded saying, "Well, funny, you should say that, Casey, because I had an idea about wanting to invite a listener on for the last episode to do a bit of a review of season one and to look at the theme of season one, so what is social work?" So Casey, I put that back to you and you said, "Sure, let's do it." And so here we are. - Yeah, I'm so excited. I've been really looking forward to it 'cause I love a chat. I love any chance I can to have a chat. So I'm here for it. And thank you so much for inviting me on. I was sent that email, expecting no response. But I was like, you don't know unless you try. And then you responded and I was like, okay, oh my God, this is happening. - Yeah. And I got really nervous. And here we are. - Oh, well, we can both be nervous together. - Okay. - So, well, I don't want to give away all the good news. I want you, I think you should tell us a little bit about yourself, Casey, and your good news. 'Cause you've got some amazing milestones coming up. You're like, so close. So tell us about that and tell us a little bit to about what motivated you to become a social worker. - So, I'll answer your first question and sense that I am a social work student. I mean, my fourth year, so for anyone that knows social work in Australia, that means I'm in my last year. And I have finished all the study side of things and I've got 80 hours left of my final placement. So that's my exciting use of burning, as you were saying, that I am almost done. So in the new year, I'm planning to finish my placement by middle of January. And then I'll be ready to graduate, ready to go out into the little social work world and, I should say, the big social work world. And what motivated me to be a social worker and get into the human services sector, I guess, would be as a young person, when I was younger, like a young teenager. I went through a couple big life events and I wished I had someone like a social worker there for me. And I, as I grew up a little bit, I got to like 16 and I was like, I'm, I love to talk to people. I love to help people and like, people tend to come to me for advice. I was like, how can I do something with this? - Yeah. - Yeah, and I knew that I wanted to help people, whatever that meant at the time. And I got into community services at TAFE, got into uni at 17 and here I am, not even 21, ready to graduate soon. - Soon to be 21, that's the other big news, isn't it? - Yeah, that's my other big news, is I'm almost 21. Yeah, as I was talking to you about before, I'm going on my cruise tomorrow. So, and that's for my 21st. So I'm very excited. - Yeah, I think I answered both your questions there. - That's beautifully. - Yes. And it's so, and your answers are actually so consistent with many of the guests that we've had. Like to me, I feel like I am just talking to a, you know, a social worker who's been doing this for years and we're just looking back on where you're out to and what you've been doing. And so many of us have that, yeah, we've had our own journeys, often being clients ourselves, the services, or perhaps not, and needed that. And somewhere along the way we learn, hey, I'm pretty good at this helping or wanting to help. So what can I do for you? Actually, it sounds a little similar to me, like those stepping stones I got you into social work, like I did youth work, you did community services. And it just, again, leads you onto the next phase, you know, which is now at the precipice of getting your bachelor degree, which is just so exciting. - Yeah, and other exciting things that I didn't tell you before, but I'm also about to, so in February, I'll start a Masters of Counseling, but that's gonna be a Torrance, so. - Oh, Bill, that's all good. (laughs) - Yeah, so I thought one day I'd like to do like some more of the therapeutic practice. I think my placement, there's like a clinical team. And so I realized that that's something I'd be interested in, doing like some of the behavior support, or like if I wanna do school social work, which is where I see myself going in the next couple of years. I'm like, what can I do that will like help me get to that early? And I was like a Masters of Counseling, I think would be good because it's like slightly different to social work, of course. But I still have some of like that knowledge already there, in terms of micro skills and stuff, so yeah. - Yeah, you're off to a great start there, now you can start specializing, but you're not gonna take a break from study, you're just gonna dive into the next degree. - Yeah, I'm a little bit crazy, no. (laughs) - No, you were one of my PhD participants was called by her friends, a perpetual student. She was the same, just kept studying, you know, finished one thing onto the next. - I came about because it was kind of in the back of my mind that I wanted to do a Masters. And then with my job, when we were planning for next year, they offered me four days a week. And I was like, well, I have a day off, and I don't like being bored. So I was like, what can I do? And I was like, I know a Masters is gonna take me more than a day a week, but it gives me that bit of extra time to study some more. And I was like, I think that's my sign, and if it's too much, I'll stop. Like I'm not. - You know, there's other signs, you could get a hobby rough. - No, I'm kidding. My only way I'm saying this is 'cause like, when I got to the end of my bachelor, I was exhausted with study. I couldn't, the thought of writing another essay made me feel sick in the stomach. So I'm just absolutely an oranew, that you've got this energy, this path to keep going and do more. It's wonderful. - I think like, yeah, I'll see how I go. If I get into it and I get like a semester in, and I feel like I'm gonna burn out. Like I will stop. I know that that's possibility, especially working four days a week and studying, I think that will be hard. But yeah, I wanted to take a break, like when I thought about it at the start of this year. And as I've kind of been creeping up to actually graduating, I'm like, I think the momentum might be good for me, 'cause once I get out of that momentum, I might just never go back to like a university. I'll probably always be a learner, for petitions, totally. But I don't think it would be like as easy for me to continue on in university doing another degree of sorts. So yeah, I might regret it, but we'll see how I go. - I love how you're approaching the whole thing. And I do hope you'll let me know how you go with it all as well. And I think that's a good then segue into, like 'cause you're about to get your social work degree and you've been spending the last four years, like even unpacking and looking at this question around social work and what does it mean? A building of professional identity. And they're gonna go into a master's, it's not social work, but it's certainly adjacent and in the social work feel of counseling, but also counselors can have their own professional identity. So yeah, it just brings that real good questions about what is social work and also being a social worker and a counselor and unpacking this thing. What is, yeah, what is social work? So tell me, like you said, keep in listening to the episodes throughout season one. Are there a few that really were highlights for you that stood out? I think for me, my favorite was the, like not my favorite, 'cause I loved all of them, but like one that really stood out is the, I don't remember who it was with, but it was talking about, it was, sorry, I was looking at my notes there. The one that you spoke about, what does trauma inform social work really? mean with Andrea? Andrea's Gideane. Yeah. Yeah. I was just trying to remember the name. I knew what I wanted to talk about, but it's just the name. But yeah, so I think that is something I've been really interested in doing my placement in the out of home care space. Oh gosh. Yeah. Thinking about what is trauma-informed social work? What does that look like? And so like podcast, I think it came out at the similar time that I was thinking about it. And I was talking to my like external supervisor, a bit about trauma-informed social work and that theory to practice stuff. So I think that one really stands out to me talking because it was talking about the different ways that a social worker can be trauma-informed. And like what are the determinants if you're not trauma-informed? And I think that's very interesting. I think all social work is trauma-informed in some way or not, whether it is implied. Like it's sometimes it's just implied, but it's performed. It's not a theory that they say they use, for instance. Yeah. I feel like we've been trauma-informed for many years or tried to be, but now we've just got this language. It's sort of organizing framework or I'm calling it also a world view. It's not just principles. It's a wave seeing the world. Yeah. Yeah. That we can speak to the language of it. You're right. We're using trauma-informed and now we just have that language and we can call it trauma-informed. But for me, before I even knew what it was, that felt like almost like common sense because of my lived experience. To look at someone and go, okay, how do we match them almost with a case worker or social worker? You kind of have to go through a process of elimination. Sometimes it's like if you've ever had your own psychologist or counselor, like as a client, you want someone that works well with you. I think that social workers often, there's like limited resources and that can make it hard. But that's just like an example. I think it's important to look at the client and go, okay, they might be a woman who's experienced domestic violence. You don't want to place them with a man who comes across, like they might be the most amazing worker. But if they look very stern, they might be re-traumatizing, just for a woman to enter that space with that experience. So I think, yeah, for me, that was common sense to think about those nuances of the profession. And we can instead ask people, what is it that you need? What kind of relationships? What does safety look like to you? Yeah, rather than we don't need to assume that they can go here or there or need this? Yeah, exactly. I think it's easy to assume, because like I said, with the resources, we just go, well, that's what we have for the funding for. That's the tension, isn't it? Yeah. I think that is something as well, I've run in my placement as much as you hate to admit it, a lot of the stuff we do is about funding. Oh yeah. And the legislation and the policies and procedures, and so you can't always be as trauma-informed as you'd like to be, I think, but how do you work within that? And that's what social workers do well as we work within the systems. And get quite skillful. Yeah, sometimes we try to push the boundary is definitely, I think that's also another really good thing, but how do you navigate being trauma-informed? And sometimes really difficult systems, especially like out of home care. We've got to tick all these boxes, but still work with the child as an individual who's experienced trauma. And that lived experience, that we're presented with. It's so interesting that you mentioned Andrew's episode, because just before we logged in and got all set up for this interview, I was looking at the episode like rankings. I don't watch, look at them that much, just every now and then. Mainly to make fun of my, to pit will, my, and we'll do it in Berlin to cash off each other, because we have our own group chat and then competing against one another with, you know, ranking, like how many episodes, viewings are listening to get. But anyway, that aside, but it's the trauma-informed episode is number two out of the 19. And number one is the number one is Katrina's, which is the very first episode. What is social work? And that's not uncommon from what I've heard with podcasts where the first episode often does. But yeah, like it was interesting. Every time I've logged in, Andrew's is just kept getting, you know, creeping up, creeping up. And now it's family-placed at number two. So I was going to say, sorry, a lot of people also question that what is social work? And so to see a podcast, like episode known to that, you got to tackle that question. Hopefully some of those listens of from people like yourself, like myself, where we were like, yeah, I want to help people. So what is social work about is that the kind of profession for me? And so hopefully there are a few people getting some benefit out of that. Is there another particular episode that was a huge highlight for you as well? Yes, it was, I don't remember who it was with, but it was the one where you were talking about social workers in, okay, it was the title, why are social workers hanging out in public libraries? And it was with Patrick Lloyd. Yeah, Patrick Lloyd. That's another hot. Yeah, that's one of my favorites as well. Because that was just like something I had never thought about. Yes. So I think like I'm a big advocate and believer in like utilizing community hubs. In the sense of like a school's community hubs, the libraries as community hubs, like where do a lot of people go? That can be like essentialized, but for me support. I live in a regional community. So I think that is also really important. And so looking like listening to the one about social workers in libraries, I was like, that is genius. I know, right? And that was my thoughts to what I first learned about it. And I've got colleagues like Sabine Wardle, Karen Bell, who have been doing a lot of research in this space, Sabine in particular. So when I got the chance to interview Patrick, I was just like, why are we doing this decades ago? You know how many? Like it just makes so much sense. Yeah. Because it's like, well, we have social workers in hospitals. Yeah. Why don't we have social workers in libraries? Yeah. And you make a good point about schools being community hubs. You know, so what are the other places in our community that are those, you know, well, civic places as well. And I think Patrick made a great point about like libraries are sort of one of the last free places people can come to and just hang out. A lot of people that maybe can't afford Wi-Fi, now it's not just about books now. Like libraries are places to use the internet to sometimes like guess a port from the librarians for different things. Yeah. To go and hang out. If it's a really hot day, people don't kind of afford air conditioning, they might go to the library to get the aircon. Yeah. Like those things, I think like that, that would make a library a good place. And I think that's what Patrick was talking about is like the ways you can utilize why people use the library to bring social work in. So like some people that are homeless might hang out in the library because it's a safe space. Yes. And then it's like a work-arcan, go and talk to them and connect them into services and stuff. So that podcast episode, I really liked. Yeah. There's such an eye opener. And I also left with the impression it is quite a dynamic field of practice in that in each library can be different with what it presents and what the library would like, how they like there is a bit of attention about what the library wants social workers to do and then of course what social workers want social workers to do. But I just got this feel that you know, they scope for the role to be shaped, according to what the community really needs. Whereas often we were shaped very strongly by the funding body, the job description. And I'm sure that does happen here as well. But it just felt so much, I don't know, I just felt like a dynamic kind of field to me. Yeah. Yeah. It was really eye opening and I think about like the local library where I live. And I'm like, I wonder if they have a social worker or like do they want a social worker? They want one. Yeah. Can I be the first one? Yeah. I think like all of the episodes have been super eye opening, but those were the main truth that stood out. There's a couple others that I could talk about, but those were like give us one more that really stood out. Again, I wrote down the names because I am really bad remembering titles. So how can newly qualified social workers set them up for success? Of course, that would be. Of course. A favorite one. Surprise. Surprise. You never would have guessed it. I think, yeah, because I will be newly qualified next year, I think that was that resonated with me because yeah, because of my circumstances. And also like when you're an online student, it can be really hard to feel connected and supported through that next step. Because once you finish this, you just kind of go like, oh, that's it. It applies to any more. And you don't really have connections with any of your like tutors in that like, I don't think to a lot of my tutors because like classes over now and everything I, I couldn't attend them often because of my work and traveling around. And so I would watch them later on so I didn't get to interact. So yeah. easy to feel a lack of support. - Yeah, and that is quite distant from the whole community. - Mm-hmm. - And a lot of people like where I work in my age of my placement, either at my work, there's no social work, it's so they don't understand what it's like to come out of that degree. - You don't have that like- - I find a person to really connect with. - Yeah, they're amazing people, but they just don't understand like the new grad of being a social worker, like they have university degrees and other things. And then at my placement, I will talk to them about like all the social workers, which is most about team, about their experience in new grad and what that was like, but it's not the same. It's just not, I don't think it's the same as like that actual university, like bubble of people. - Yeah. - Totally. - Oh yeah, and university is its own bubble. - Yeah. - And it's kind of in a way, the way you're describing it, it kind of gets popped, doesn't it at the end in a way? Like you get into this bubble, and you kind of fly to around, it sounds like in some ways, like you've been immersed in the bubble, but on the periphery of aspects of the community. But that's something that's been on my mind ever since I did, my PhD, 'cause these are the kinds of stories that my participants came up with. It's my story too. I remember finishing that last year, and I was just like, oh, so that's it, right? I handed in my last assignment, like, oh, and like all your norms are about to change. Like, - Yeah. - And the people who, particularly if you had, did make good connections, we say lecturers, like people who you're used to seeing their names, even if you didn't talk to them on a regular basis, but they were still your, say subject, or no, you're like, oh, bye. I guess, like, - Yeah. - It's quite interclinatic, the end. - Yeah. - I think that's like, I think, I was reflecting on this the other day, as you do. Where I was like, - I think the social worker. - Yeah, I think, university in that sense is changed, where everyone used to go on campus, and you'd be really close to your lecturers, your unit coordinators, that like even like the head of the uni, like you know a lot of the people who, like you have a good circle. - Yeah. - And I think as uni has moved online, there's still really good supports in place, but it's, - That's a different kind of connection. - It's so different. I don't think that's what uni was probably set up to be, like the institution itself, was meant to have more support. - Yeah. - And not like in person, because I think online, yeah, you hand in an assessment, sometimes I hand mine in at like 1159, for example, and then June. - Or like 10 o'clock or something, and I'm like, oh okay, and I handed in not too long ago, probably a couple, I don't know, I'm on the so okay now. I don't know. - Yeah. - I handed in my last like assessment, aside from my placement, for my whole degree. And I was like, okay, I went and I was like, - Where's the confetti? Where's the parade? - I was like, congratulations, you've done it. Like I know I'll get back when I get my, like conferral and stuff, but I went out to my parents, 'cause I just wanted someone else to like, celebrate that moment. - No, no, I used to do electro-owness, right, for the final years. And clearly, I need to get back into doing it. Like it was titled The End Is Not I, where we were done pack, and I would do it at the intensives with students when they'd come on the campus, so we talk about an unpacked stories from the PhD around this, my own story, but also just, and then their experiences of study, and talk about how to prepare for the end, 'cause there is a bit of a gap between like, I finish and then, yeah, what do I do at the end, to honor, to celebrate, to mark the occasion? - Yeah, because it is important, but we don't really have the infrastructure put in place at the university to do that. We even used to like, way, way back in the day, when I really got into this, we do like our own new or mini graduation ceremonies, at the end of that last intensive, just to mark that, and invite my colleagues to come and be up on stage and students would write up their own certificates. It was so corny, and actually a lot of fun. We'd even dress up in the academic gowns, 'cause it was so much fun. - Have you seen Gilmore Girls? - I'll totally. - Yeah, it's giving like, when Rory graduated, and they wanted to do like, the fake one for the people in their stars, stars hollow. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they couldn't all go to her graduation, and they were like, "No, we wanna be there, we wanna see you." - We wanna celebrate the part of it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Most of our students don't come back to the graduation ceremony itself. That's partly why I wanted to do, like let's have our own celebration. - Yeah. - You know, so it's great that you've got that on your mind. - Yeah, I, when I did my intensive with Will in August, and we'd like, you know, you speak about the end, but not everyone is at the end when you're doing that. - Yeah. - Yeah, like theater practice for, because some people do them all earlier in their degree. - Totally. - Yeah, and that was something I always found as well. - Yeah. I met some people who were kind of around the same as me, like kind of getting ready to graduate, and we all echoed at the same, like things of feeling like it, it's like, it's kind of lonely. - I have a good circle around me to support it, but it's, it's not, yeah, it's just not the same. I think COVID changed a lot of that as well. - Yeah, that's a good point. - And you're giving me a lot to think about and take back, you know, to the discipline as well, and see what we can do, because it's changed. - So, okay, you've given us, yes, three particular highlights, and they all, they're, yeah, I agree with you. I've loved, I don't think there's a single episode here that I have not enjoyed. - You'd hope so. - You'd hope so. - You'd give him the person putting it together. You never know, right? But I feel like I feel like we've nailed it with all the people we got and talked to, and those ones that you mentioned were highlights for me, among others. I mean, I certainly have a particular bias towards Sue Wilkins and her stuff on practice frameworks, 'cause I feel like that fits so beautifully with just her whole topic about professional identity, and Jacqueline, Jack McNamara. Like, so hair's was episode 19, he's social extremist enough, and that is like climbing up these episode rankings. - That was number four. - I wasn't making between my three, and I was like, that is up there, 'cause when I learned about, especially like eco feminism, - Oh, yeah. - I was like, get into that. - Yeah, I was like, this is like right up my alley, and listening to that podcast episode, I was super interested in it, and it's up there. - Oh, and I feel like we even barely scratched the surface, 'cause I get the pleasure of being a co-supervisor for Jack's PhD, the conversations we get to have. You're just like, oh, let's, I feel like you just need to record all of these and put them out into a whole podcast series. - Yeah. I think I was listening to that episode with Jackie on my way back from Walker. Oh, this is a fellow student? No, sorry, without the one where it's like, Ezeko is social work feminist enough. Oh, for Jack. Yes, yes, yes, yep. - Yeah, I'm sorry. - That's okay. And I just forgot the name. But on the way back from Walker, I was listening to it, and I was like, this is so interesting. I had purposely not listened to a couple of the episodes so I could listen to them, 'cause it's a five hour drive for me. - Yes. - I do the same thing. I've got a road trip. - Yeah, and you just like jogged my memory. I was like, he got us in the car, like driving back from Walker, and I listened to that one. Oh, that's so cool. Okay, we've talked about episodes. How about we go with your favorite definition of social work that was given by guests? And you're still in student mode, so give it your rationale for why it's your favorite. Okay. So my favorite definition was from Andrea. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that was one of my favorites too. Yeah, and she said, social work basically is any work that anyone does that works towards improving the wellbeing, the health, or the social and political state of one or any group of humans. I think that was just a house you put it. - It is, yeah. - Beautifully said. - And I love that because it looks like it's holistic. Like that's, I think social work is holistic, and so that encompasses that really nicely. And people often assume that social work is either physical health, so like we work in hospitals, or it's mental health, and we're working like community mental health, but it's everything. It's actually put it, it's like wellbeing, health, social, political, and it's not just for any one group of humans, like age care, like it's anyone. - That's a good point too. I mean, we must also commonly work with people experiencing, say, oppression, I've been, I've been marginalized, but actually it is also anyone in general who's experiencing distress, yeah, as well. So it really can just be any group of humans, which is, yeah, I think that, now that you've said that, it sort of sticks in my mind more clearly. I think my brain had overlooked that component of it. - Yeah. - Of her definition, but that is well said, isn't it? And that stuff around the social political state, and I like the use of the words that works towards improving, because we're not gonna fix it. - They keep, yeah, yeah. - We're not gonna fix it. We help them, we help them as in people, which is a fence client. - Yeah. - We wanna call them community members to improve their wellbeing, their overall wellbeing, but we don't necessarily fix it. We can't just take their problem and make it better, but we can help them, hopefully, view it differently, or feel supported to work through it. So I like, that's why I like her definition, because, it encompasses all of that beautifully without using 100,000 words. It is concise, right? She nailed the brief, you know, the try to be one sentence, keep it concise. And I like that's why it's worked towards because it also suggests to me that there's always more improvement to be had. I don't think we're going to say, yep, social week's done. We nailed it. We'll see you guys. Let's let's pack up and go home now. Like there's, you know, it's a continual process of striving for social change or for well-being because society's change and we, you know, need to change with that as well. And who was I think now you're also kind of touching on, well, Vicky Shavelin from the episode you really liked about, nearly qualified social work. I mean, her official definition was helping communities help themselves, but she also gave a secondary definition around, but sometimes it's about social work is getting out of the way. And I think you just kind of what you were saying before touched on that or was alluding to that. When we're doing it, like, yes, we're working towards improving well-being, health, all of those things. And sometimes that work looks like getting out of the way as well. All story. And knowing when to do that, when to go, you know, what, like this is no longer within my own, like capacity, like sometimes it's just like, where you're, whether you work, you can no longer do that. Yeah. Maybe you're taking on too much work or that it's just simply, they don't need a social worker right now. And it's up to me to know when to step out of the way. Yeah. And it's a hard school because you, it's not like you don't want to work yourself out of a job. But I think that's what social workers should be looking towards is worth it. You're aiming to do. Yeah. Yeah. And not keep people dependent on you. Yeah. Or communities. Like, we want people to be up, yeah, to be doing their thing. I think, and why, and there is what I like, Andrews, is, like you said, it's holistic. It's multi-dimensional. And there were a few definitions out there that really captured that. Like that we work, you know, often with individuals and communities, but we also work for that broader change. Like Katrina in episode one, she got that beautifully with her. Like, I like to hear a definition about working alongside people, families, communities in a holistic way to meet their needs, as well as advocate for wider societal change. That was one of my favorites. It's kind of nice. Like you do, do the first episode and you're like, Oh, okay, that's, that's it. We got it. It's a great definition. But I think my, even, it's probably even more concise. My other main favorite was Sebastian or said Kodoba from episode 18 and his macro work, you know, talking about the UN commission. I just, and he's passion for it. But he said something similar with like social work being a profession that works in partnership, that would I like, in partnership with people to address social and emotional well-being, and in doing so, challenges barriers and inequalities. Those last two words just really, really get me. Yeah. I, um, I also, I really like that one. And I was just looking at Fredrick's. Yeah. I love to that episode as well. And when I was at Woggle, Fredrick, I can't remember whether he came in or was like on Zoom, but we'll go up Fredrick there. I think it might have been on Zoom. I don't know. Oh, not he'd be there in person. Sorry, it might have been in person. I really, there was that whole week as a bloze. Yeah. So much happens when you're at intensive. Yeah. But where, like he's, he's spoke about the ability to work with compassion and empathy and to like, I'm trying to like summarize what he said. Like, and it, so it's working with compassion and empathy, but it's like a values-based profession. So when I think of that, I think it doesn't just have to be like compassion and empathy. Those, those are the core of it to values-based profession. So where do our values sit? Where do the companies value sits? The communities values? Like, I think that is a really good way to put it as well. Yeah. Because then you get into the idea of it is going to be different. Whoever your social worker is, whatever company or organization they work for, whether they're in private practice. Like, it is so varied. Like, we all have the same qualifications, probably from different universities as well, but the same qualification at the end of the day. But it's so, like, it's variable. And I think that's like a beautiful part of social work is, is it's just like, you know, it can really blossom from that, from the degree onwards. And that diversity across this. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I agree with you too. And I've been starting to sort of think about that more deeply with my professional identity research. Because these narratives, we've often gotten tongue tied around, oh, but social extiverse, you know, sort of that mean we can have a common identity or, you know, all parts we can't I just think, well, I think we should embrace that diversity. It exists and it's a beautiful thing. But we still, we do. It's about both an end for me. Like, having a code of ethics, like the Australian code of ethics is often a starting point for us. But we also have like the global ethical statement at the International Federation of Social Workers. And that's derived from worldwide consultation. You know, we have these structures, you know, these frameworks that articulate the common professional identity. And then there's that beautiful variability and diversity of the individual, but also across education programs. And yeah. And that's to be embraced and celebrated. Yeah. And I think like you were saying, you know, we have these codes of ethics that a part of what makes us professionals, like it is a profession, which I think that's like what is a profession? It's a question you have to ask, but it is, it is a profession in the sense of the word. But it, like you were saying, it really is variable. So it's almost like, yeah, it's getting me both. Yeah. And or either depending on the social worker, like, yeah, we'll don't have a registration with the AISW. They choose not to, but they're still social workers. Yeah. And they probably still have it. They use the code of ethics. And I have that accredited. Yeah. Totally. Are there particular words in terms? I mean, I do love all the definitions. But I also think some of them would work well in some contexts and not others. Like because the whole purpose of this question for me is not just for our own benefit, but also for the people we're working with who don't understand social work, who where our public image is not that clear or strong. So we have to be our own best advocates is kind of my, you know, the soapbox I've been on during season one. So do you think like, let's keep in mind the people who are trying to communicate with like you've been working in placement in out of home care, potentially doing school work with, you know, young children and as well as families like, so do you think there are particular words we should be careful using or perhaps avoiding when we're trying to explain social work to others? Yes. Oh, okay. Quick to go for it. I have a couple and I might come up with more as we're talking. But my first one is and I don't, I'm not taking a dig at any of the other definitions because I think everyone has their own opinion on the use of words and they're thrown around so easily that you don't actually think about the words you're using sometimes. Sure. But I think my first one would be like vulnerabilities. Oh, yeah. I think that puts it back on the individual. And I believe that social work is about the individual in there. Like is a product of their environment? So the individual isn't vulnerable, they're disadvantaged. Does that make sense? Yeah. And people don't, they don't like being characterised in that way. Some people won't mind, but some people absolutely do. It's sort of like even the word victim. Like I've noticed, like we often use the term victim survivor, especially in the domestic violence space or others. And I think it's a good reminder that yeah, some words will mean more to others. And some people really don't like how they're framed. Yeah. And we have to, yeah, be mindful of that. Yeah. And like I was saying, it's that labeling of that it's their fault. Like they're vulnerable. It's their fault almost. Whereas it's almost never the person's fault. Something has happened to them. And that's the question that we have in our mind. Are there some other terms? Something just like more from a technical point of view is like the word social. People will say we help like people's social and emotional wellbeing. Yeah. And that makes sense if you're thinking of social as like in their personal like their family, their relationships, their friends. The system social system. But now social means on their phones. Oh, that's a good point. So you're talking to younger people about social wellbeing. You're not just talking about how the person interacts with their other people in their lives, which is what social I guess means. It's how they're interacting on mind, how they're and that is, of course, part of their wellbeing. But I think it can blur the lines a little bit. Yes. What? Social workers do is it it's more yeah, thinking of like how we're defining it in the actual words we're using because yeah, I think as a younger person or someone if I didn't know what social work was and I wanted to go into it or I was trying to like or someone was trying to explain it to me and they said I'll look after people's social wellbeing or social and emotional wellbeing. Thank you, maybe a social. media was, I am learning so much from you right now as an old millennial. It's like, okay, I like that. So I'm being schooled. Like it makes sense. But like, yeah, there's some people that would go, huh, I wonder whether like they mean like online, like that online social. Yeah, which it can be included in that actually. Yeah, but it's yeah, it's not exactly what we were necessarily meeting though in the first case. Yeah. No, I think it's like important to use words that that you actually mean. Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it's often been the bigger loftier words. I have, I get, and I think I've probably mentioned them throughout this season anyway. So I'm probably repeating myself. But you know, like in our more formalized definition, like the FSW, we've had the word liberation in there, you know, or even empowerment. I feel like, you know, if I'm talking to a person like when I was a counselor, like if I talked about liberation, like so, I don't know if it would have the same meaning or the same impact, like I know what it means, or you and I get it. But it's, I don't know, some people might think, who is this full? What? They would have reveraged me or yeah, I don't have issues with the word empowerment because it suggests that we have a certain power that we are transferring to others. Like, yeah, I like to have gen through rights and critiques the notion of empowerment is probably where I'm more coming from there. It's just a word that still works me. No, I hadn't really thought about that. I don't use empowerment a lot because I think it can be a bit confusing. But I think it's not so used in that way. Oh, I give you, I'm giving you power. Here's some power I'm just going upon you. It depicts a power transfer. And I think part of the social worker is that we, it's important to recognise that there is power and privilege in the role of being a social worker, but you try not to have power over other people. Yeah, yeah. You try to recognise those power dynamics and navigate it. Yeah. And access the power that person actually already has. Maybe they just don't realise it. I think those are the two main words that like I personally would avoid using in writing a definition or like explaining social work to someone. I say writing a definition because I've had to do that in uni. And also like my social work framework, you know, you think about the language you use and how that's important and even like empowerment, that means to transfer power in a way. And so it's like that's not what we're trying to do. Yeah, so it's just been something that I have thought about and that'll probably change. Like, Mark on this and go, why did I say that? But you've just also given the perfect example of change that has happened with the word social. Like I know I was saying earlier, like societies evolve, we evolve with it and that word social has evolved. And so that's something we have to be mindful of. It's yeah, so I think that's a beautiful example. Okay, well, we've unpicked some of these definitions, talked about our favourites, we've also talked about some words. I think it's time to go to our last question where you and I give our own one sentence definition of social work. So you want to kick things off with yours? Sure. So I wrote it down. I don't know how good it is. But I think for me, like I did think about this for a while because and it'll probably change as I was like that. I changed mine just before we started again, like you know, so it's just going to keep happening. Because I was trying to write it when I first started writing it based on my social work framework, which is different to what a social work it is. So yeah, I think that's very struggled. But anyways, my definition is that social work means to look at a whole person in their environment and then walk alongside them, providing support to navigate that environment where both the client and worker feel necessary. Well, I like that because it's about combining to the expertise of the client as well as yourself. But you're utilizing or drawing upon your expertise in a far more balanced manner, like could you say, it's walking alongside, it's not about a hierarchy, even though there are inevitable power differentials that we can only minimize so much. You're positioning social work in such a way that minimizes that. So it's about elevating their expertise, but also bringing alongside your expertise where relevant and but pursuing the change that they want. I love it. And as I said, and then walk alongside them, providing support to navigate that environment. So the environment where they're in at the time. So it's not their whole environment, they're only ever in the cell being, it's that specific environment that they're experiencing right now. Because I think it yeah, the ludes to the fact that that will change and their environment will change. And then I put where they're both the client and worker feel necessary because you know, we try to talk to our clients about what what what do they think needs to change or what do they need support with. But also we will probably have to be ticking boxes for funding or legislation stuff. And so it's where we both feel necessary. Sometimes that's coming to a compromise. I'm saying professional judgment. Yeah. Yeah. And you're you're navigating an environment yourself as a professional. Yeah. Yeah. That that inevitably enters into that relationship with the client. Because you've got a job description that yeah, behind all of that is an organizational context and professional context. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Thanks, Casey. I've got I've actually got two definitions to give. The first I'm going to give is actually from a former student that I have used. So way back in I think in the launch trailer early on I explained that I read I used to run this activity with students. What do you social work and get them to do this? And it's nice to hear that it's still happening because I'm not teaching in that those final you know, the theory and proc fall subject anymore. But I also ran this with the first years back in 2016 when I did theory and proc one and I taught it on campus. And one of the students, so her name at the time, I don't know if it's still her name, but was Teagan Pollock. So full credit. This came from Teagan. I asked with her permission if I could write it down and keep it and cite it because I was very impressed with it. It's not the perfect definition, but it's always a definition I fall back to that I feel would be quite useful, particularly explaining to people, no matter what context I'm working in. So her definition that I really like is a social worker is a professional who advocates and promotes well-being of those in need. So I just think I just I've always liked it because it's simple. It's got the word advocacy in there, which alludes to social change, but also people understand the word advocacy like, oh advocacy, I like yeah, you know, it can mean something, but also that promoting well-being and of those in need a little bit like Andrea like that can be anyone really like any group of people. So and of course, I love the fact that she uses word professional like we are as in we're a profession. So that's my shout out to Teagan. I'm still referring to that definition, you know, still making use of it to this day and I hope others find it useful, but I did then step I thought no, I can't just cite someone else's work and wash my hands of it and walk away. I do need to work on my own definition. And like I said before, you've been hit recording, I was changing it and as you were talking Casey, I even thought, oh, I can see that I could change it again. So this is mine based on a lot many years of having this conversations and reflecting on the definitions given in season one. What I'm attempting to say is that we are a profession that works alongside individuals and communities to address needs related to the well-being, which includes pursuing social change. I love it. Yeah, I love it. I love that. I think it's concise, but like long enough that it's not too simple because I think social work is never going to be simple. That's kind of where I feel like I'm landing actually with this whole season. It's I want that definition to rule them all, but I think I need to settle with multiple definitions that depend on the context, right? Yeah, as we were saying before, it depends, yeah, on the context and the values, the lived experience, like everyone's idea of social work, even if we all have the same degree or under the AASW, like have that title, we see social work differently. And I think that's like amazing. It's nice to be able to put it into words for people that aren't in the profession, but I think that variety is what makes social work such a cool profession to be in. Yeah. I think that's a beautiful note to wrap things up on and to just reiterate, to celebrate, yeah, the diversity of our profession and what it means to be a social worker and that we can all have our own unique definition that we use to explain to clients or communities or service participants, but whatever language you prefer, as long as it's not consumer or customer please. Yeah, but we also have those overarching professional frameworks that give us that common mission and that common kind of direction overall, but we're each, as one of my PhD participants said, and her surname was Julia, she said, you know, we've got this overarching mission, but we're each pursuing it in our own way and with our own unique definition, that really reflects us at the end of the day. Yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah, I like that. It's, yeah, it's going to be ever of the world. evolving, I think, as society, as you were talking about before, as well as society changes, the profession will change. Absolutely. Okay, so I want to thank you again for reaching out to me, emailing to say, "Hey, what am I being on the podcast?" And then actually green to do it. And I think you gave a little bit of good, a nugget of advice in there to listeners of, "Hey, sometimes you just got to give things a go and see where it leads you." And here it led you to coming onto the final episode of season one and helping me do a bit of a review. And it's been so insightful for me to learn what you got out of this season. And I'm just also incredibly excited about your future and where you're heading and all the amazing milestones that you have coming up. So I do hope you'll spend plenty of time celebrating. Maybe it's about grabbing your mum again, you know, when you finish placement. Whatever you need to do. And I think that's great advice for any listeners who are soon to graduate or are very close to graduating like yourself. Like prepare for that and prepare for that, you know, the time when you're going to do that last assignment or say goodbye to say your lecturers and think about how you want to do that in a way that will be meaningful for you so that you can go onto the next phase of your fabulous career. Thank you so much for agreeing to have me on the podcast. It is like, I think such a beautiful way to wrap up my studies as well like to end on a note where hopefully I can provide some insight to maybe some other students or make other social workers look back and go, oh yeah, that's like an interesting way to put it or maybe make them, yeah, think about what it was like when they were finishing up and how they would have viewed the profession at the time. And I definitely will take on that advice of celebrating the end. One, yeah, one end. I have a couple ideas in mind of like trying to do some stuff and maybe going on campus to graduate to commemorate that because I'm the second person in my family like the world one to have graduated. So I think it's a big deal. It is. It's a huge deal. Yeah. And I echo what you said and hopefully some other listeners, other students take that advice on as well and celebrate because it can be lonely, especially if you're doing it online still like a lot of us are. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, celebrate in your own way. And for some people, I remember my PhD participants. Some of them, it was about buying a box of chocolate and giving it to another person who was graduating at the same time or doing your own little graduation ceremony or as one person did. They went off to India for, you know, I think it was a month. You know, there was one who did nothing who just went on back into their job and they regretted it. Can I just say they actually said, I wish I had stopped and taken a moment to celebrate. So he had our warning people, celebrate social work, celebrate yourself, celebrate what you've achieved because it is a huge deal. So thank you so much, Casey and I think we'll have to have you back on maybe at the end of next year for a season to wrap up because we will have a totally different theme. I will just, I'm not going to give it away. There will be a launch trailer but it preparations are underway. I would love to be back on. I think we can make it a regular thing. Yeah. Should be co-hosted. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Thank you so much, Casey. Thank you. Thank you for joining me today and I hope you enjoyed the episode. You are most welcome to get in touch and tell me what you gained from the show. You'll find my website details and email in the episode notes. Be sure to check out the notes for other links that you can follow up for further learning and development. While you were there, tap the subscribe button on your podcast app so you don't miss out on the next episode. And feel free to rate and review the podcast so we can reach a wider audience. See you next time in the social work cafe. [MUSIC]