SEAN AVERY Talks NHL Fights, Trash Talk, Christopher Nolan

- Do you think you've fought more guys or (beep) I had sex with more girls in your life? - That's a wild question. - I don't know, just think about it. Or are you not a notch on the bedpost kind of guy? I think just-- - I mean, I listen, we all had fun. - We all had fun. - I did a lot of (beep) and a lot of fighting. - Yeah. (laughing) - So cool. - I could be honest with you, yes. (laughing) - I wonder what the number is. (laughing) I went for the number is on the spreadsheet. - Oh god. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey all, welcome back to the Adam Friedland show. I'm Adam Friedland. My guest this week is former NHL player Sean Avery. Hockey puck is my favorite thing. I like the way they skate up and down the rank. He's here to promote his new book Summer Skate, which came out in September of 2025. As always, I'm Adam Friedland, signing off. I love Thomas Eisenman. - No pressure, Friedman. - Shut the fuck up, it's Friedland, okay? (laughing) - I am size 17. - Welcome to the stage. Coming up next, Sean Avery 13-year veteran of the NHL actor model. - Oh fuck. - Sex man. - Jesus. (clapping) - Hot start. - First of all, I'm not a model. And I've never modeled. - You're a top model. - No, I'm not. - I modeled once, I modeled once for a French brand. The Kouples? - Oh, I love the Kouples. - Yeah, I was like in the store window. - I'm a Mercer? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I took a picture in front of it. - Of course. - Yeah, yeah. I don't know why. I think it was some sort of prank. - Oh, oh. - I don't know why, why did they ask me? You know, they were using regular people, like the gap that I would say right there. And I'd say, I'm like intellectual, so celebrity. I've been watching too many highlights. - Really? - Yeah, I'm like catching up on an NHL from like, I'd say probably 11th grade, and I'm 38. And now I'm like locked in. - 11th grade. - I want to catch our audience up on like, kind of what your profile was, 'cause it's fascinating to me. And if I was a good at fighting and sports and ice skating, I would be you. - Yeah. - I'm describing this correctly. Your position was basically to wind up, kind of the best player on the other team, and make him lose his focus and lose his head. - Essentially, yes. - Yeah, that's what I found fascinating about it. 'Cause like, it's a sport, like any other sport, there's an aspect of, of violence, which is be woked out of the league right now. - Yes. - And, but there is this aspect of like, kind of the mental chess game. And in a team sport like that, it's like, you kind of don't see that in another. Like, you see a pitching duel, maybe. But like, you don't really see someone like you who's like a guy in the depth chart, who you bring out, and he's like, he's going to make CD Crosby cry, basically. - Yeah, I think it's funny. I've never really thought about it like this, but like, think about it as like, an organized crime family. So, and I'll use Yere Mir Yager as an example. He's the Godfather. - Right. And at some point, during a game, the Godfather's going to look down at the end of the bench, at me. - So it's not coming from Torturella. Is that coming from the coast? - No, no, no. - And really, it always came from me, 'cause I was uncontrollable. - But you guys pooled the fine? - Oh yeah, sometimes. - That's so sick. - That's, that's illegal for me to tell you that, that we would say actively in the dressing room, like, okay, somebody go and fucking kill Matt Cook. - Yeah. - And the boys will put the money on the board. - He had it coming. - Yeah, he had fun. - You know, he married. This is interesting. In junior when we're younger, like 15 to 20, we play in this Canadian hockey league. - Yeah. - You move away from home. - You cooked. I was good. - I was good, yeah. - I was watching highlights. - Oh really? - Yeah, yeah. - You move away from home and you live with a local family. - Matt Cook married. - The mom. - The mom of the family that he moved in with. - Wait, he stole the mom? - Well, yeah. - Yeah, so, all right, essentially, basically, my role was to shift the momentum. If we were going in and playing a team on the road, and it was a tough building to play in, usually, like, collectively, guys were, like Montreal on a Saturday night is a tough building to play in. - Yeah. - And I always knew that. And I would go in and I would basically try and put a fucking giant target on my back by spewing vulgar at everyone that I could from warm up till the start of the puck drop. And then, because my idea was the guys are a little, we got to weather the storm in Montreal, the first five minutes, 10 minutes, they come hard. I got to make sure that, bring it all on me. Bring it all on me and let everybody be comfortable and I want yoggs to have space and whoever else. So that, and then, at some point during the game, maybe we're going to be in a tight game, maybe we're going to be losing, and we need a little, you know what I mean? And then send me out there. And so sick. - I'm going to try and change the momentum. I'm going to hopefully draw a penalty, which is going to put our team on the power play, or I'm going to fucking make somebody go crazy and the goal is going to leave the net and whatever. - So your parents were teachers? - Yeah. - So why are you, why are you bad? - So the first time my mom got called by the school and it was in grade one and I have a five year old who's going into kindergarten next year, so I have an idea of what, like, grade one is now. She got a call from the principal saying, so Sean, we have a, we have a deaf kid in Sean's class, and he doesn't believe he's deaf, so he's been yelling in his ear all afternoon. - That's early for a grade one, that's early, to kind of go in that hard. - It's kind of like, you had a hypothesis and then you do it as an experiment, you know? - Problem solved. - And the kid was like, for attention. - No. - But like, hockey is like for us, when we think Canada, then we think that's your story. - National sport, yes. - And it is the opposite of what the stereotype is of a Canadian, right, of like a nice guy, right? And it is something that Canada can fuck up America at, right? Until the recent tournament, we almost had your asses. - Yeah. - What is it? The Tri-Wizard Tournament, or whatever it's called. - Yeah, the three nations, or the four nations cup, yeah. - I feel like that brought a hockey back a little bit. - Yeah, I mean, my idea of that was because essentially, the Kachak boys, who's dad, they call them big Walt, Keith Kachak, great American player, but he played with so many Canadians that I think by default, the boys are almost more Canadian than they are American, but what they're doing is now they're changing the culture of American hockey. - So like, what's the, what's the, what's the hang, right? So you're, it's like in the MLB, right? You have like, you have like, MAGA farm boys, and then you have like, passionate lad men, and I guess now you have like, Japanese guys with gambling debt, but like, you guys have Russians, you have like, Scandinavians, and then you have like, also you guys have like, French Canadians and then Canadians. - Which are two different things. - Are Americans and Anglo-Canadiens, is that kind of more of a group, or is it like, in a locker room? - No, no, no, no, no, no. - No, no, no. - You see somebody as American in a locker room? - Yeah, no, well, no, we see guys as Western Leagers, because Western Leagers, they don't like the hard stuff, they'll just drink like 80 beers. - Yeah. - And guys from the Ontario League, they like to mix in, they like to get the fireballs and the, so it's sort of like a regional thing where, and American guys mostly went to college. - Oh, they, yeah, they get to college. - And none of us went to college. - Did you, with the last school you went to, it was like 16, before that? - I think it might even, a little bit earlier, yeah. Yeah, 16, yeah. - And then you started playing juniors. - And that's when I started playing juniors, and that's, you know, when you move away from home, you move in with this family, some guys fall in love, some guys, I just-- - So guys fuck them all. - I just went to work, I shot Pucks. I didn't want to go to school. The break was open, I said, what do you mean? This is our arena, and the ice is there, and we, you're not renting it, and I, so I think like early on, I was one of the, I was just like, I'm not, I'm gonna go shoot Pucks. - You wanted to work. - I wanted to work. - Yeah. - So what, what are the Russian guys like? - Russian guys are incredible. - Do you guys hate with them? - New money, baby. - Yeah, yeah. - It's so fun. it down. It's so fun. Yes. And I played with sort of both generations because when I got to Detroit. Fedorov. We had Sergei. We had Fedorov. Larry Onov. We had Dotsuk. Yeah. We had a lot of great Russians. Sergei was first generation and second generation because he played for so long and he kind of - he's the epitome of like American - a Russian coming to America. He's the original Miami Russian. Okay. He went to Miami. He falls in love with Anna Kornakova. He goes on that run. But that - so Russians, we like Eastern Europeans. We like Swedes because Swedes are the most similar to Canadians. They don't fuck with each other. They don't like each other and the fins of the worst drinkers ever. What's the - what's the series I was with the fins? Are they like just like monsters? Yeah, you're like look at UC over there. What's he thinking about? And then he gets drunk and you know everything that he's ever thought in a matter of an hour. And the Swedes are like handsome legends. They're just like - they're good laughs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why Canadians are drawn to them because they're very similar to us. What about America? You know, I didn't - I didn't meet a Jew until I came to America. Right now? I mean Montreal is very Jewish city. Right, but I grew up in Toronto has one part. Now all my closest friends are from there. But growing up, I didn't know, but when I got to Detroit, Michigan, University of Michigan, Bluefield Hills. Bluefield Hills. Okay. I know all the Jews cities. Right. So that's how I - yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of - that was - that was my introduction to that. But as far as the Scotty Bowman. Scotty. He could be - I could see him - we could at least start their rumors. Yeah. Yeah. I could see it like he's got that little - he's kind of like - hello boy. Yes. Yeah. So you're playing Juniors, you cooked, right? I was good. Yeah. And your profile - was your profile similar to what - like your game was similar to what it became in the NHL or did you emphasize certain elements to make it into the league? Because you're undrafted, right? I was undrafted, so part of the reason was because of how I was acting. Because you're prick. Playing, yes. And I still have a little bit of resentment towards Canadian hockey who they have their own whole mess that they've been doing some things that they shouldn't have or whatever. Because they kept me off our national teams because they thought I was a bad teammate. Yeah. And I was just misunderstood. We didn't have felt amazing. Like, oh Canada. To put that thing on. Would you have cried? The crest. So you get side to the wings, right? Yeah. In the middle of a dynasty. Yeah. I mean, that was like a fucking - and you're about to go to Detroit right now. I'm leaving here going to Detroit for our Centennial Alumni Weekend celebration. I haven't seen some of these guys probably - I haven't seen Dominic Hasick in 15 years. Would you consider him the go - or your old friend Fatso? You go Patrick Wah, Broder, and I think Hasick. But then like, I could say Terry Sauchak. But like, I don't mean that was - That's old. - 80 years ago. I don't know. From what I understand, it's just a completely different game at this point. The skill level is much higher. And like, it's sick. It's so good. They're so good at it. It's so good at ball. Yeah. It's a very interesting, the evolution of like the last four years. Well, it's the McDavid kid. Yeah. Yeah. He's - He's nasty. McJesus. McJesus. He's so good. Yeah. Well, he's not good at the press. Like, you were. No, but he's going to have to be because he's going to sign with the Rangers in two years. Really? Yeah. He's going to have to start talking to shit like you. Are you going to like kind of bring him in, baby, breast dial? You know, I've always thought that that would be the perfect job for me. Should we write for for McDavid and or just everything? Yeah. Should we be like everything? What he wears? How he, you know, we got to help the transition. You do fashion, I'll do, I'll do bits. Okay. Yeah. I'm good. I got good bits. Oh, no, you're better actually. For a hockey contest, you're better. When you're in like a minor league team for, you know, the best team in the world. So, yeah. How do you work your way up? So, okay, Detroit, 2002, I think the greatest hockey team ever on paper. Probably. And they actually, we actually won the Stanley Cup. I say we hesitantly because I was - I didn't play in the playoffs, but I was on the team during the year and I didn't play - I think I - if I had to play two more games during the regular season, I would have had my name on the cup, whatever. This weekend. Sneaky. And just, and just say, hey, that's a tape. Well, we read, write, history, everywhere else. I know. Right? Lord Stanley wouldn't care. No. So, Detroit, 2002, I played one year in the minors in Cincinnati, but I'm lucky enough to play for a coach who's now essentially banned from the NHL. This guy, Mike Babcock, was my minor coach. And he's a lunatic. He got kicked off a - I love him. He's one of my favorite people of all time. He got fired a couple of years ago before the season started because he made all the guys on the team come in and he said, "Open your phone books, your camera. I want to see all the pictures that you have on your phone. Leave your phone with me and I'll give it back to you." This is Joseph Stalin. And they fired him. He's probably the KGB, which, who would, I mean, of all the sports, okay? Here's what I'm going to say. The hockey players would have the most fucked up pictures in their phones. Yeah. It would just be so diverse. Yeah. You know, it would be like a hand up a cow's ass, like actually working and milking the cows and Saskatchewan. And then it might be somebody having - he might have a hand in his ass. I mean, hockey players are wild. They are the wildest. I like the parallel reference. Why would you want to see that? So locker room talk, how many micros have you seen in the NHL locker room? Oh God. So, I mean, it just wore off like it. But I know who they're big. Have you seen micros in a professional sports league? Yeah, there's a couple. Dude, good for them. Yeah. Honestly. What's he going to do? If you bust it, they're fucking asses. Usually. Give it up for them actually. Yeah. Slow walk-ins. Slow walk-ins. Teeny tiny. Teeny tiny. Dude, that's what they say. They say. Really. Yeah, really. Yeah. You would walk into the sauna or the steam room after practice. And my left-winger would be shaving my right-wingers back. Really? So, you know. That's a love of a brotherhood. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And it just kind of wears off after a certain amount of time. Did you get rookie treatment? Like, and did you have a vet? Like, how did those guys like who are like literally on technically the best hockey team you've learned from the best? How do they how do they treat you? I learned from like the OGs guy like Brendan Shanahan told me a couple of things. He said never take a yellow taxi and always have more than $400 in your pocket. Was he a pin? Yeah. Now, just just ready. Yeah, he's just ready. And also, you know, the appearance of like- It sounds cool though. You don't take a yellow taxi. You don't take it. No. Sounds about broke. Yeah. And it could sound cool, but we're going the other way. Yeah. We're just going, we're going up here. A guy like Chris Chalios. I'll tell this story. What a legend. The first time I ever went out with Chalio and I was staying with him. I think during training camp. And we went out and it was Detroit. You know, there's not that much to do. Yeah. Anyways, I think we were pulling on to his street and it was like 230, 230 AM. And he pulls on to the street and then he just pulls the car over to the side of the road. He used to drive like a 68 Cadillac, like an old school that sometimes would start. Yeah, it's so long. So he puts it in park and when you crank those seats back, it's like Delta one. You're like Delta? Lay flat. Yeah, lay flat. Of course, I'm a Delta boy. And I looked over, it was like, I didn't know what was going on. And he said, listen, life is all about setting precedence, okay? If I go home now before 3am, the wife's going to think something's going on. If I come home after 3am, like I always do, there's no questions asked. you don't disrupt the system. So isn't that a, isn't that a, like that's the level of commitment? - Yeah. - It is off the charts. - So what's hard to think that he's getting pussy? - I don't know, no, no, it wasn't about that. It wasn't, no, no, no, it was about, - I'm sorry. - It was about wives, hassle, husbands. Like what the hell are you doing out? - Right. - And then you come home earlier, you've now set the precedent back. - You could do that? - Like you should be home earlier. If you came home at 230, instead of three, like you've been doing for-- - And that's what she gets. - Years, so that was sort of, I'm telling that because in all the different situations, different archetypes of guys on that team, they all had their own high level operation that they were running. - What are, our goalies like, they're weird. - They're crazy, so crazy. Like they're like, baseball pitchers are like sociopaths. - Break down the, break down the position. So they wake up in the morning, right? Practice is at 10.30. By 10.40, they've probably had 700 hockey pucks shot off of them. - Yeah. - Off of their body. - Every day for practice. - Every day, every day, every game, twice a day on game day. - Like masochists. - They're, yeah, maybe. - Weird. - Yeah. - Are they superstitious, too? - Oh, yeah, yeah. - They're like weird, yeah, weirdos. - Left skate on. Don't touch that. Don't walk through that door. Don't look at that person. I put sour cream on my spaghetti. All kinds of weird shit. Yeah. - Sour cream and ketchup. - From what I understand, you bounce around your LA. - I didn't bounce around. - But you were, you were the, you were red weight. - I played on three fucking teams. - Four. - Dallas doesn't count. (laughs) - Yeah, that was a fun one. That was a little detour. - A little detour, yeah. - You got to throw out the first pitch at the ranger state. - At a ranger state. - Yep. - And they all applaud it. They're like, this is, this is gonna work out. (laughs) - And by the way, Brad Hall, who I'm gonna see this weekend. - Yeah. - I mean, the greatest. - You guys lived together, right? - Yeah, but he was the GM in Dallas. That's why I went. - Did he cast your contract? - Well, no, he, well, essentially yes, but his boss did. - Yeah, yeah. - From what I understand, like, you got to New York and there's like, you found a home in the NHL. - Yeah. - And, but like, the, the interesting thing about you is like, the way you talk about moving to New York is like, like fucking carry Brad Hall. - Like, it was, I was the, yeah, the sex in the city. You know what I mean? - You think had a carry moment. - Hold on a second. - What was that? - Hold on a second. I don't even know if you know this. Has anyone ever walked off set while they were doing? - Was that a gun? - No, no. You know that I, that I've written a romance novel that's a best-selling hockey romance novel right now. - Really? - Yeah, we're bidding, you know, we're gonna option. This thing's so fucking hot. This is about a New York Ranger rookie who spends the summer in the Hamptons with two of his former college teammates. They fucked their way through the entire hamptons. - And this is hardcore sex in there? - Yes. - Oh, nice, dude. Can I have this? - Yes. (laughing) - You didn't know that I-- - Do you want to read a little, do you want to read, like, read some, read some of the steamy ass, we'll go. - I'll read you the, no, you know what I'll do? - You're literally carry. - Yes. - You're reading, writing fucking books. - Yeah. - Here's the first chapter of my, of my, it's three pages. - Oh my god, you have a pillow on you. - Yeah, of my romance novel. Durham, New Hampshire, two years ago. It's a snowy night in a town that is all activity and cheer, even after a loss. The cobblestone streets are blanketed and white and lined with twinkling Christmas trees. I have my red cheeked girlfriend under my arm as we walk down the street. The tails of her scarf flying in the icy wind. We walk past a bar with its door open and amateur band is playing Take Me Home Country Roads. It's 11.30 on a Saturday night and we're headed back to my apartment off campus. She's got my jacket on. We turn on to a street that's quiet. We hear only the sound of our boots on the sleeted pavement. The crunch of salt under our feet. Three big guys with beards walk towards us. Townies. - Oh no. - They're drunk. One of them looks at her and asks, how does it feel to be with the biggest bitch on campus? Clearly they watch me take that bad penalty at the end of the game. I cost my team the win and while I can't erase the past, I can predict the future. I know exactly what's about to happen. Everything goes into slow motion. I turn to my girlfriend very calmly and say, don't ask any questions. Just turn around and walk home, okay? Right now, go. I am clear, I am strategic. This is when I do my best computing in the eye of the storm. If I could choose to live in this space I would. It's where I feel comfortable, serviceable on the team. This is my role, I cause chaos for distraction, for intimidation, for the win. I've done it since I was a kid. Who did you just call a bitch, I say? - Ooh. - Before he can answer, I smack one guy, open hand slap him across the jaw, he's down. I hit the second guy on the side of his head on his ear before his hands even come out of his pockets. He's down. The third guy is six feet away coming toward me. I take two hard steps and bury my shoulder into his belly button. Wrap my arms around his legs and pick him up off the ground. Slam his head off the curb, bounce his head. Right off the concrete, he's out cold bleeding from the ears. I sit down on the curb, I've blown on my hands but they aren't shaking. At least there were three, it's easier to sell. I take out my phone, put my hand on one guy's chest to see if he's still breathing. (laughing) I call the cops. Hi, my name is Carter Hughes. I play hockey for the University of New Hampshire. I just got attacked by three men on the corner of Summer Street in Maine. One of the guys has heard badly. Send an ambulance and the police. I'll stick around until you get here. - Wow, that's sexy. That's very romantic. (laughing) - I'm a reed of books as Harry Potter ate. I think I'm gonna try to go back in on books. - And can I tell you, it's a dual perspective. So your girlfriend. - Do you sell this? - Your girlfriend can read it because they start fucking a lot in the book. (laughing) - She can, yeah, she can. - Anyways, we have a female protagonist and a male. So the chapter's bounced back and forth between Carter and his love interest. - Ooh, I like that narrative stride of ice. - Yes. - Yeah. - It's like Russia, mom. (laughing) - That was fun, right? - Yeah, I love, I'm like hood. - Can we put it on the table, though? - Yeah, let's put it on the table. - Well, just. - Oh, yeah. - It's fine. - Um, so what's it like to fight you? So you guys are just wearing ice skates and you know how to fight wearing ice skates, like. - Yeah. - What a weird thing. What a weird sport. (laughing) It's the only sport where there's like. - So you're allowed. - There's an aspect of fighting, but you're also on ice skates. - Yeah, yeah. - Did you know that's fight, like with the figure skating guys and the hockey guys, was that like beef grown up and the rig? - You know it's so funny. There's an old wives tale, Elvis Stoico, was a Canadian Olympian figure skater. I think he was the first man to do. - The five? - No, four. - Quad. - Quad, yeah, yeah. - Quad, yeah. I have been told that he, Roundhouse kicked Eric Lindross in a bar outside of Toronto in the Skokas in the summer. - It was a good question. - Okay, yeah. So that, to me, I don't know, that's so sick. - Yeah, be careful. - 'Cause they're actually a great athlete problem. - Oh, dude, they're wearing sequins. - Yeah, that's what it's a distraction. (laughing) They're also John Wake. - Yeah. - Wait, so, like how many fights in your life? Have you think, what's your body count of fights? - So God, man, dude, I fought so many fucking delivery guys in New York City. Am I, am I adding, is that a. - You can't really mad at them on your Instagram. (laughing) - I used to. - I used to. - You really mad at them. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of fights. When I was 12, I played in Nova Scotia for a few years. My dad got transferred. He worked for Sears, RIP Sears. - Yeah. (laughing) - And we had a tournament on Prince Edward Island. You take the ferry. Anyways, we won the tournament and we played against another team from Nova Scotia. When we took the ferry back from PEI, they had to put me up in the captain's quarters of the ferry because the parents on the other team wanted to kill me. - Parents? (laughing) - The parents of the players of the other team. We were 12. - You were a little fucking bad. - I was bad. - You're a bad boy. - Bad. - Do your mom try to make you be good? - You know, I once saw her at the Bay. You know, the, it's our, it's our, the Bay. You know, the blankets, the three stripes, the Canadian heritage, the Bay. She once spent four hours in a Bay until they took her return. She just wouldn't leave. She just stayed there. - Oh, so you got your ship from her? - And that was one of those like, trauma tree moments maybe or for the better. - Yeah. - And that was when I knew, yeah. So then you just you dig in you saw ideally with customer service. Yeah. Yeah, she was trying to return something They they were refusing to take it and she said to them. I will never leave. Yeah I am I am you can hire me for a bot mitzvah's I do you think you've fought more guys or fucked I had sex with more girls In your life individual that's a wild question. I don't know. Just think about it Were you not a not are you not a notch on the bedpost kind of guy? I Think just just I mean I I listen I we all had fun. We all had fun. I did a Lot of fucking a lot of fighting yeah If I could be honest with you. Yes God, oh God like is it like is it nice to fight? You know what's so interesting is that you like like it. I became I'm now Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm now a martial artist. I took up jujitsu Three years ago four years ago, maybe and now I don't want to fight ever because If you get too close to me and and something pops off I I want to embrace you and choke and I want to choke the air out of you Whereas before I wanted to like use my fists and that was that was I was a man trying to find a way to cure his urges You you had you had just a you had a guy is out of you Yeah, and you had a you had the and the problem is you get rewarded for it in your game In our game. Yeah, and the crowd goes and you and then you feel like God when they fight each other. Yes, it's so cool Yeah, now they're wokie get out of the league. They're still they're still fighting. We got to let the boys fight It's coming back is what's more dangerous like for a player? It's dirty hits have to be more dangerous than a that a mono a mono. Yeah, yeah, absolutely You did a move which I this is why I'm like we're we're kind of the same guy, which is like the Mass in the notion is if a man squares up and you have to you have to accept the challenge Yeah, but you did the move because you were a wind up guy where you'd be like what you know You be in a guy's ear and be like you fucking pussy you fucking bitch and then he'd like lose it and then you'd be like What what I did what did I do you know which is in front of an entire stadium? Just like the security in inside of yourself to be able to be like To be it. It's it's so israel of you. Just like it's so like Benny I mean no, but I mean just I call them Benny which for you to for you to like net nahu. Oh net not new I call them Benny Oh, I call them. I call them a lot of them Hey guys Caleb pits here when hair starts to thin confidence can't do that's why hymns makes it simple to feel like yourself again Inspiring stuff. I plan on taking hymns and looking like this in one year for more information Here's my boss and friend Adam Friedland take it away a dog hymns offers convenient access to a range of prescription Hair loss treatments with ingredients that work including choose oral medications Serums and sprays doctor trusted ingredients like finester item and doxadil can stop further hair loss and Regrow hair it as little as three to six months. 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I said terrible. I said terrible shit. I did research. You did that's what I was Okay, you have compromise. Yes. Yes. How did I had a dossier? What depths did you go to to like find out anywhere really anywhere? You were like Roy Cote. I was I got love RIP Roy one of the What a man what a man American American. Yes. Yeah, like you By the way, but by the way. Yeah, this is that I wear it. I only wear it. Yeah, yeah, because candle lost their identity I don't even want to talk. We don't even fuck it. Anyways. Yes, I did my research. Okay, so I would line up with So-and-so yeah, who you know I played junior against them were the same age, okay? So we've been playing against each other since we were 12. Yeah, and His sister Sarah works at the Kagan Toronto Uh-huh, and I know that two Saturdays ago She didn't get double team, but you know she took down Possibly the captain of the the Montreal kids. Okay, all right. Yeah, and I know that because I've got feelers out I got people and everyone wants to provide information and share information. Yeah, like a secret police I had a fucking dossier he was stalling Like you did have like a KGB worker for you. What was I gonna do? I mean if you're gonna do that job then like be the best at it and be prepared Do you think because you were undersized you were conceived to be undersized that this was like a marginal advantage that you could like exploit and like have a career for 13 years and in them like a Absolutely, it was survival skill. It was also Scarring from being the smallest on my team since I was a kid. Yeah, you know because Standing beside you, you might people might go. Oh, he's pretty what a big guy But we're the same. Hi, dude. I look like the same birthday. I know. Yeah, that's true But when I was playing it was a big game and guys were I mean, I took a video with you. It's No, it's not I've heard that it's not as big, but like guys were Six the guys were like, uh, you know, huge Yeah, 60 pounds 70 pounds like I I hear a mere yoga. I saw him for the first time 10 years Yoggs would just he's such a big man. He would crush me. Yeah, so how do you fight a guy that big a bigger guy? You got that fighting fighting's a different mechanism because it's all about levers and and Pushing and pulling so if you know and understand like How do you fight in general? Yeah, I fought to not get hit I fought to not get hit to make it to sell the fight To not hurt my hand and to make sure that I landed on top of that fucking guy. Yeah, so that if we were on the road The building went quiet. Oh, and now I've just neutralized one of their There's no energy and if we're at home the place it goes fucking crazy and you're a legend of the garden Very good. I mean like they your profile player. I would imagine that that just amps the fucking stadium up like yeah to a thousand Yeah, especially in New York like, you know these, you know New Yorkers They used to be hard hard in people. Yeah, you know blue collar It well, it feels like it's coming back. It's about I think I was kind of guys. I yeah, right doing shit working So in New York the fans appreciated it. I played in L.A. And like they didn't like me in L.A. Yeah, the fans Like I have more people come up to me in L.A. That go I didn't like you I you're a king. I didn't like you as the king. You took too many bad penalties. You guys are bad for us In L.A. Yeah, bullying. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh god Dusted you made fun of your your teammates list. I guess that's true. Oh, I've heard that that You know I can see post league maybe I did did you make a man's with certain people like where you like I was fucking dickhead to you I definitely what do you mean anytime that I switch teams? I had to You want to talk about awkward yeah, you know get traded from the rain to from L.A. to New York and you said Dispicable things to some bad things to some of the guys terrible guys, but they realized they realized yeah You got to have an awkward sidebar. They're like he's our guy now. Well, yeah, I feel like you could handle that awkwardness You go in it's the only way I'm able to survive and I think like the other thing is this is like going back to the original question of you being the smartest guy Yeah, like you've been around these guys your since your eight probably yeah, you know their psychology, right? Yes, and like for me getting funny What was also just I could confuse bros to the point where some of my friends even kind of realized I was making fun of them right But it wouldn't escalate to them see red. Yeah, yeah, I would be I would do it the opposite where they'd just be like walking away and they'd be like what the fuck did he say yet? Yeah, that was like my mechanism So it's just like two sides of the same mechanics of of of what we do are the same Who's the dumbest guy like like are they like Donald brochure and and and And you know like Martin brish here. Don't the Michael Jackson talking better Donald brish here He had a great-dane or some sort of giant dog and he used to shower with it at the arena Yeah, like and hockey players. We don't have our showers Yeah, we don't Hockey players have this weird culture. We don't have individual stalls. Yeah, who cares? It's one big shower. Yeah, and I well and he was in there showering with his dog Whatever, I don't like them for sure. It was not cool. Who do you still have smoke with? Do you is there a guy that you're like fuck that guy? There's a guy named Matthew Barnaby who actually played for the Rangers Oh shit, I know that guy and Barnaby was I mean, I love Matthew Barnaby as a player Matthew Barnaby now on on on X He doesn't even use Instagram, which is like such a boomer move. He's only an X guy Could be a cool move maybe actually. Yeah, yeah, could be the move is a great Instagram account by the way what is could be the move? It's could be the move. What is it could be the move is during the world series because you're a team player You're wearing batting glove to work Oh shit for your boys for the boys. Can they you send it to them and then everybody does it and everyone does it Yeah, it could be the move I got in I lost two hundred million dollars in gambling for showing. Oh, you're the guy No, I'm the I'm the bag man. No, I'm not the translator. No, you kind of could look like him I do I look Japanese if we shaved your head and and that's for respect a rude That's respect wait, so like obviously you had compromised you knew the things that would trigger them But like you knew that they're also gross like was there an aspect of the fact that you're interning a vogue You were like kind of a dandy off off ice. Yeah, was there an aspect where you like there was an entrenched maybe like I'm getting churped by like a fucking like what this guy is like So they I was a fancy boy. Yeah, I was like There's a great clip of Wayne Simmons who was a great player He was a black hockey player. Yeah, not many. Yeah, there's an incredible clip of him He's on the Philadelphia bench and I'm in the penalty box and he screams and you can see it He calls me a faggot. He screams. Yeah, so I did intern at vogue And I did it because I've always been curious, but I also think Subconsciously and now you know being able to analyze like your life You were fucking with I was fucking with I was I was the troll. I was the alt. I was genius I was so deep in the troll game because they there is amongst bros like an entrenched homophobic and you were also Oh entrenched. I mean no, yeah, yeah, you were early you were like well ahead of the curve And you like advocated for gay rights like in the league. I was the first professional athlete to really on the record Yeah, yeah in in my ranger jersey, which is credit to Jim Dolan. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, oh by the way. Can I tell you something? Yeah I I Do Jiu Jitsu at clockwork Jiu Jitsu and so how you should start doing it a man that that can't grapple It's like you like you like you like to you like to lay 30s you learn how to fight Absolutely right now. I could turn you into it. They could turn you into a fuck machine. Yeah, an assassin Would I fight like girls at first? I mean like I but you you roll with girls Really? Yeah, you ever pop what? No, no, but you roll with girls But what if I lose a girl like that's that's the point. That's the point. That's the point. It's an ego killer But what were we talking about? No, no, I know, but I was going into it for some reason. We both are idiots. We were talking about Dolan you don't know here here. Here's what's funny. Yeah, and I will say this right now because Dan Carsello who played for the rangers played for Philly want to Stanley Cup in Chicago. He's now one of the leaders in psilocybin Therapy. Yeah, okay. I have CT. There's no question. I have CT because my short-term memory is Not good. Yeah, all right. It's getting better because of what I do now for work And I'm like I've been working that muscle my fucking long-term memory I've had numerous people on this New York trip. Tell me stories. I didn't see them in a while Like wild stories that I had no recollection of I think you're probably just fucked up I was moving fast and I was fucked up But also a little bit of the CT is starting to the short goes first though well Well my short's not like it's not the best my mom and my mom and look what just happened my mom and brain cancer So she experienced like dementia and like the cool thing was like when she started the short-term went I would talk to her and I have her tell stories from before and so she tell she remember things for like Like 1981 like and that that was like a way I could like Interesting. She's still here. No, she she passed away. Yeah, she's my best. You know, I've been reading a lot of Research papers on LSD and Alzheimer's prevention. Oh, well, yeah, she had brain cancer. No, I understand but but the brain and and so sad But for you so like I want to talk about sort of relic and like that situation because like you Adam did you just say Yeah, your mom dying was obviously terribly sad, right? Of course. Yeah, was it recently? Oh, no, it was like five years ago But you're still in the trenches on it. No, it's just like um, it's kind of a nice thing You realize that you're it's just it never gets better But in a way that's nice where it's just becomes part of you now you just understand life in a deeper way Yes, yeah, yes, and so it's just like you could get used to someone not being there But I got it. I got that aspect. It's and it's so it's just like Yeah, it's like a defining moment. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I ever like believed in God or anything But like at the end of my family being together. I was like, oh, this is kind of the point like you just like a like you know sharing And it was more of a spiritual thing versus no wasn't even spiritual was like you know like if you live on earth and you have love and you give love So you have to have blood. Yeah, you have each other's back. Oh blood like you go down with the ship together I learned to appreciate like a family a lot more because we had we have family members that have like literally Sociopaths like stolen money bad people right? Yeah, yeah, and we had close family friends that wanted to like be around and helpful And we we asked them like just like Not to like they were like trying to like Let us be able to house and then like the our family that are like just like they're gypsies like uh Those were the ones we wanted there right right. No, it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean just like people we've We've had falling outs with for 20 years like those are the people There's still like at the end of meeting there. Yeah, and in a really cool way because those are your gods. Yeah You're fucking got. Yeah, I agree. I agree and I think a little bit of that I don't know. I'm like trauma is kind of good now because it's it's helpful to kind of like I feel like I never did Academy and I did a ketamine drip once yeah and it and it felt like I was in a video game like I was kind of like stepping in jello um That's how I feel now like Just sort of more open and like people have tough times and like I I What I'm okay with And part of that is becoming a martial artist. I want to feel shit now. Yeah, but also our job You can't have highs and lows when you're a professional athlete like you're not paid to you're paid to be emotional but Also unemotional and actually more more less emotions is better where there are guys that were robots that you could just couldn't you couldn't Fucking wind up. Yeah, didn't drive you nuts. Yes. There was like Joe Sackic Joe Sackic has like just he's like a Yeah, he's the terminator. He can't you you know, he's the fucking turbine. Yeah, you couldn't you couldn't yeah So yeah, the the high level G's those are like the samurai's those were the guys that like just Buddha's Buddha's They can it's like clear the mechanism and they're just they're on a different wavelength. Yeah, there's not many of those guys But yeah, I think in all professional sports those guys are always just the yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm a moto Show hey, I love the Japanese players the Kobe like when Matt Barnes is like faking the inbound and Kobe doesn't flinch Yeah, it's just like they're he wants that it's yeah, there's nothing about it where he's just like it does not need to yeah It's a human reflex to be like this and he's just a he's the terminator. Yeah, yeah, he's like shed his humanity. Yeah, he's a killing machine. No, I understand it I want to talk about the road. Well Maybe rule let's this is like this is the most me thing. This one really got me fired up because like you figured out Do you know what a pinneca is? No, is it a palindrome? No a pinneca so it's soccer, right? Uh-huh they've been shooting like a penalty kicks for a hundred years at the sport. And then this guy, I'll show you puttin' that, wait, wait. This guy, like, realized he's like, "What if I just. " Is this Reese's way? No, this is like at the '80s? Czechoslovakia. He's a Czechoslovakia guy. Yeah, so. So, it was named after Antonin Paneca. So there's just this Czechoslovakia guy. He's like, "What if I don't go left or right? If I just, like, ship it down the middle." Oh, I remember. Yeah, of course. It's a score of five penalties. While Goli only needed to save. Right. So, like. Yes. Think about the Broder moment, right? Great, great correlation, too, by the way. Right. Is that you just did something. Was it. What was the thought process? Was it. You say it's not calculated. You say you just. You skated towards. So. It was like 15 seconds. It wasn't pre-meditated. I'll say that. So, explain. For the audience. Yeah, so. Broder is a Goli. Marty, one of the greatest Goli's of all time. That's a. That's a forgot to shake my hand. Yeah. I'm a forward. Where our job is to basically get in front of his face and cause some sort of obstruction. Kill his line of sight. That's really what you want to do. As a player, you don't want. You don't want to be one-on-one with a Goli because he has sight on the puck. You want to shoot through a screen. All the great goal scores. They shoot through screens. Yeah. So, it's like. It's a CNI puck. Okay. My job was to not touch really the puck because I'm on the ice with Scott Gomez legendary. Goldmer. Goldmer. Alaskan-born. Chris Dury, who's now the general manager of the Rangers. Brendan Shanahan. And Yair Miragger, in my opinion, the greatest European player of all time. So, my job is to make sure that I can break that sight line so that one of these superstars can get a puck into the net. Right. Okay. When I go to the front of the net and Martin Broder, the Goli, who is a widely veteran, like a G, an OG. Right. Okay. He was a shit-house or two. He was a shit-house or he knew how to play the game. And I would go to the front of the net and in hockey skates, if you poke a guy behind his knees because our blades are rockered, you can use the momentum and the guy'll just go ask over T-Kettle. So Broder would do that. Back the knee. Yes. Boom, you're gone. And he wanted me to fall into him because then he would sell it and I would take a penalty. So, it's this chess game between, you know, two diabolical guys that are trying to help their team win. That's the move. Yes. Now, the moment that I made the decision, it was a power play. I knew that I had to go to the front of the net. Okay. I had like 15 seconds notice. Like, okay, I'm going out there and I know where I need to go. I jump over the boards. This is Madison Square Garden during the fucking playoffs. Cathedral of the game. Right. Pre-Renovation. So the building even moved a little bit different back there. I take two strides and I can remember like having an inner debate with myself for the next like six to eight strides, which is probably two seconds. Yeah. From the time I jump over the boards to get in front of the net, we're talking like six seconds total maybe. Like a eureka moment? I said, you know, I love risky business. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. Sometimes you got to just say what the fuck. So good. And I said, yeah, I'm going to do it. And I just went directly in front of them. And I have the luxury of seeing his eyes that no one else could see. And this guy, multiple Stanley Cups. And I just said, fuck, if I put my hand in front of his face, and every time he moves somewhere, my hand moves with it, I've just solved the riddle of a hundred years of this game, which is trying to break a goalie's eye line. So effectively, you're going to turn your back to the game of hockey happening. And you're going to just be annoying. You're going to be like, yeah, I'd be like this. Like if you, yeah. And he's going to be like, get the fuck out of my way. Right, right. Look how quick that happens. You're being annoying, right? Yeah. And the dopest part of that sequence was that you fucking dunked. I scored. Yeah. Yeah. How did that feel? Is that your favorite goal? Yeah, yeah. I think so. Do you feel like God? I think so. That must have-- the way the building fucking rocks. I think so, yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. Is that better than the-- Sex? Yeah, it has to be. It's the one thing. It's the goals. I've never chased the dragon, but-- I wish. --goals at MSG. Goals in-- Oh, God. --and Nashville or-- And you also know Andy Cohen? Yeah. You have the best life ever. Yeah. People magazine said we were once engaged. Really? Yeah. Me and Andy used to do these Miami trips at the end of the season. Oh. So he would go to ultra. You know, ultra music festival? It used to be cool. Yeah. Now it's very commercialized, like everything. Yeah. Hopefully your show. Hopefully you don't sell your soul. No, dude. I'm open for-- the highest bidder. Right. Me too. A Saudi Arabia, anyone wants to come here? What about Benny? Why isn't Benny pan, yeah? Oh. The influencer program. You didn't get it. No, I knew I was just-- You didn't get it on the high. I had a couple of things with that. Oh. All right. I think I've said a couple things. Yeah, yeah. I've got it. I think I've got a list somewhere. Yeah. Got it. So I do the thing. I score. Here's the interesting part of the whole thing. Okay? To change a rule in the NHL, you have to do it at the Board of Governors meeting in the summer. Yes. Yeah. And the union-- the players union is-- they're representing-- What's that? It's a whole thing. Fuck off, sorry. Funny it. They're talking about bullies. Oh, sorry. No, no. So to change a rule in the NHL, you have to do it in the summer at the Board of Governors meeting, which is voted on between the players union and the teams, the owners. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. We're going to do a rule change. Everybody's going to put a ballot in, and I'm sure it's on an iPad now. I did the fucking thing in front of Brodera. We won the game. I think we won the game. We lost the game. We won the series. You won the series. Okay. Nice stuff. You lost it over time. Yeah. Okay. So it was a high stakes game. I went to bed. I woke up the next morning. I had a miss call or text message. Glancey there. And they were giving me a heads up. Like, you know, they just changed the rule. And you're not allowed to do that tonight or ever again. It's kind of bullshit. Yeah. Do you think that like. It's illegal. And I want to do a 30 for 30 on it or some sort of like little mini-dock. It'd be amazing. But I don't want to expose everyone. I just want to know. Like, who made that call? Because that's a funny call. If Gary Bettman's like, okay, we're going to break precedent. We're going to do something illegal. But he can't do that again. Like, all the odors are in their pajamas. Right. And they have to get them on a zoo. Right. Like, did you see? Are we good? Can we do this? Yeah. We're going to step out of line here and do something that we've never done before. Yeah. Because of the bad kid. The bad guy. The bad guy. You were naughty. Yeah. I found a loophole. You found it. I mean, it was just like-- It's a fucking gray area. A moment of brilliance. And it's just like, that is, to me, so cool. Yes. And I don't even think it should be against the rules. I can see where they're coming from. Because then it gets a little bit of like a-- Does everyone-- Because then I would just-- Well, I would draft the biggest guy I could ever find that I could put in space. Yeah. And just bigger than Chara. Just to make sure his arms could work and say, you've got to figure out how to skate from here to the front of the net. And all you have to do is just use your, like, shack. I was-- I lived in D.C. during the, like, the Caps' pens years. And I got-- I got back into hockey. It was really fun. Yeah. Actually, my friend was sleeping with this girl. And she was-- She was also sleeping with OV. Oh. Yeah, yeah. And she was just getting a text. Like, he was like-- She was just leaving. Yeah, she was just leaving. She got a text that said, I want fuck you in acid. Yeah, yeah. He's the coolest guy of all time. OV? I love OV. You ever show with him? Nope. Then never had the luxury. There's something so fucking, like, just lovable about him. Like a show anyway. Well, he's-- Where they're, like, they're kind of, like, a big dog or something. Because you know what? They love the game. But, like, there was, like, a defenseman on the pens that was, like, he was nine feet tall. How a gill. Do you remember that guy? Do you like acid? Yeah, I lacerated my spleen and almost died in St. Vincent's because I hid him. He was that guy? Yeah. What did you try to do? No, it was-- we were in the playoffs. It was a second round. I think it was game three. And a puck got dumped in from the blue line. And I can remember it so vividly, you know, it's weird what sticks with you. And I said to myself, it was like, I'm going to fucking kill how a gill right now. But he was like nine feet tall. I know, but I'm going to, like, I'm the guy that's going-- What is it? Rules. I am going to-- That's the biggest bastard. - I'll gill right now, we're at home. I went a hundred miles an hour, I hit him so fucking hard, and I think he just kind of leaned into me 'cause he was huge, he was six foot eight. And I remember, like, you know, when you get hit or punched and you wanna pretend like it didn't hurt. So then I kind of like got to the bench and cast our trainer-- - Bounced off him. - I bounced off of him, bounced off of him. I got to the bench, I said to, it was actually Jim Ramsey, Rammer. I go, I think I just tore my abdominals. Can we go in and get a tortoise shot? So-- - Drugs. - Yeah, so I, we went in, and I got-- - You guys were like, "Future." You guys were off the perks, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you get through, right? - Well, tortoise only, you can only use it in the playoffs. That's when we're allowed to technically use it. - You get better drugs? - Yeah, you get the good stuff. You get the actual, they put a needle. It's like the perfect, you know, the sports team where you bend over the table and the needle goes in the act. Anyways, I thought that I tore my abdominals. I got a tortoise shot. It was my second. I finished the game and after the game, I got into a cold tub and I got into the cold tub and all of a sudden I felt like I got stabbed in the shoulder and shout out Doc Feldman, Andrew Feldman, good juice. He said, "Let's go." They put me in a robe. They took me to St. Vincent's. I got to St. Vincent's. I had hit Hal Gill so hard that I lacerated my spleen, my own spleen so he didn't hit me, right? Normally you get hit by a car. You get a lacerated spleen in a car accident. I did it to myself 'cause I was like, I'm gonna kill Hal Gill right now. And he and I spent six nights in the ICU of St. Vincent, which is not even here anymore. They tore it down in the West Village. Yeah, it's the nice hospital now. Well, it wasn't, it's for most of the eights, yes. And I was in the basement and I saw, I said, I'll go, I'm good with this at this point. Really? Yeah. What was that? Yeah, it was a shooting. It was a, it was a, they had to cauterize it, but they could only, it was the type of bleed that you could only see it when the scope was in. So I had to keep going in. I had, they had to scope me like four times over the course of five days. It was crazy, dude. I talked to, I'll ask you first, and I'll tell you what I've gotten in my research. But how do you think your profile player would translate to 2025 NHL? Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh my God. Well, the funny thing is if I had started taking jujitsu while I was playing, I would have won multiple Stanley Cups. Really? And I'd probably be the president of the United States. Really? I mean, it ain't, you know, you were born in Canada. Right. That's true. It's, fuck off. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Wait, so what, but like, but, but, how would you just do help though? Because it, it slowed everything down. And what I wanted, what I did, I spent everything. It was too fast. Yeah. I spent everything up. Yeah. Everything went from like zero to a hundred immediately. And guys, you know, on my team and it was warm ups, it was just always, it was constantly. Yeah. That was a soccer like some of the best players, they looked like they're going like it's so slow. Yeah. Because like, there's like a term for it, like a Spanish and Pausa. But the player, like, there's chaos around him. And they just look like they're in the eye of the store. Right. And they just, everything is just so, like, people are just falling over. It's like, looks like, like, but what they're doing is they're, their brain is doing math. Right. There's like, they're doing that. They're computing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, and you know what's so ironic? It's like, everything comes around full circle. I'm going to Detroit for the centennial anniversary alumni. Steve Iserman was the one guy that sat me down and said, just shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up and play. Yeah. And he doesn't do that with a lot of people. He certainly didn't then as a player. Yeah. And on one hand, I can say I should have listened to him. I would have had a better hockey career. Well, you sustained a career from not shutting the fuck up. Right. But that means that one of the goats believed in your skills. Yes. That's that's kind of dope. Of course. Yeah. And and he would say that I probably left a lot on the table as far as plain wise. Interesting. Now, the other side of it is that I think I was like more an entertainer than than a player. And that's, I mean, like we'll get to it because I want to say this what I've heard first. But like, that's an interesting thought to be like, well, this is, I mean, you're an actor now. I mean like, no, no, but that that's the same thing. It's I'm telling a story. Exactly. So what I've got, I talked to like an NHL insider, he said your skills that would apply better to a modern NBA or an NHL. Oh, I'd be a I'd be a I'd be a gamer right now because like I'd be I would dominate because I could skate. And also the the it was you'd be the other size. Yeah, now now. Yeah. You're a great skater. And then also like the psychological elements of the game have have actually it's kind of a coveted like a GM will seek out like we're going to play out. Not many of these guys last. Yes. And for what I understand like the Panthers are kind of like a Avery type of teeth. Sam Bennett. They have multiple Avery-esque players. I mean better than Avery. But like, they have some of my they wear the like the evil empire kind of they do. Yeah. Because they're like sorry a little dynasties. Yes. Yes. And I love watching them. Yeah. And I wish. And I'm very critical of the Rangers. And I wish we had players in New York City that played a little bit like some of the those fucking guys in Florida. Yeah. In the in the tree of like of your profile in the NHL as an agitator. Like who do you see as your your OGs? Oh God. OGs. Yeah. A lot of my peers this guy Steve Otte who I played with in Dallas who's now assistant coach in Saint Louis was a complete animal. He would he would he would he would decimate your entire bloodline if he could. If he had enough time and he was a savage. Tiger Williams was this guy that that played back in the day. They they and Eddie Shack. It was like clear of the track here. Come Shack. There's been some Kenny Linsman the rat. Yeah. Kenny Linsman was my dad's favorite player. He played for the Bruins. Yeah. They called him. He was the original rat. Yeah. So I always loved. Yeah. I you know Doug Gilmore to a certain extent but was a little bit more skilled. He was a Toronto Maple Leaf. And did you conceive of what you're doing as like playing at the heel like in like professional? Absolutely. You're like any Guerrero or almost. Yeah. And and Ronda Rousey. I think she's going to come back as a heel. Is she? I think to the UFC. Well kind of what you're doing by being a festival is like you're doing a little bit of gold dust too. Right? I was inflaming. I was like acting like a little bit a little bit spicy. Yeah. But I was also the first person that brought I mean I brought Andre Leon Talley to a a ranger game. Who's that? He was a giant gay black fashion man who worked under Anna Winter for a long time at Vogue. We're trying to distract the guys. Yeah. Well kind of maybe. Am I correct to say that NHL is the only North American sport that has never had an outgay player? Well because we're the only sport yeah. That outside of UFC like we fight and I still think there's that that macho. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I played with gay players. Totally. For sure. I'm bet. Yeah. Oh yeah. That was I gave you an opportunity to you could have came at me on that one. Well like what how do you know they were gay? I don't know. No you would ask me that. How do you know they were? Implying that I had like sexual relations with some of my gay teammates. You fuck there guys? No. See that's what I'm saying. I was already way ahead of I was already playing the bit. Were you trying to help them come out of the closet or like was it? No I was trying. Oh are you doing it? That was good. In terms of like you playing the heel and like you what like you're kind of and you realizing that your entire 13 years was a type of performance. Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Then like most of the times you got in trouble from what I saw. Yeah. Wasn't it actually like you were doing a dirty hit on the ice? It wasn't like you were trying to like you could give it a guy's spinal injury. It was a talk of the press right? I said the sloppy seconds thing which was you know. Which is it what the why that's not it's nothing. It 2025 has nothing. In the NBA there's like six girls that they all have sex with. No but yeah. But it was a it was a crass and and it was that to be just seem like Gary Benville was like just sick of you right? Gary wanted to send him out. - Now I was like, you do, there's a last straw, right? - Again, well said, yes, yes. - But like, but the problem, what I saw was like, going back to Conor McDavid, love him, we love, but like, you know, I was like, you're gonna give them an interview, right? The rest of the guys are gonna be like, well, you gotta play, you got three periods. - Yeah, we are for the puck with a puck drops it. - Yeah, hockey players have been conditioned to be some of the worst sound bites of all time. - And you're like, you're giving them, like, so the media is like, you're feeding, to some extent, you're like, you're, - One of my great quotes to the media, and this sort of ties into like, what I was doing, I was on the back page of the post when Spitzer went, and this, I got pulled into the Spitzer. - Oh, you got three and nine? - I got pulled in, and the back cover was the Ranger in the Madam, because somebody said that I was in the book. - Oh, are you? - I walked in, so when I got to the ring that day, and the hoarder of reporters, I said, guys, anytime that I've ever been to a whorehouse, I didn't use my real name. - And they loved it. - And that was it. - And they loved it. - And that was, it was done. - But like, they, they're not gonna get that out of these, like, these like, guys from all over the world. - I agree. - It says, "Scatch a wall." - I agree. - Like, they're, and so, to some extent, you were giving the NHL headlines. You were actually doing something for the league. - On a national level? - Yeah. - More than some of the stars in the league. - For sure. - Nowadays, it would be conceived in a different way, I think. Because nowadays, we understand that what you're doing is you're effectively doing PR for the league, and you're making it more popular. - I mean, you know, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are a great example. - Oh, what? - Of, of, you know, what? - White nationalism. (laughs) - Of, like, what we wanna see from our athletes. - Perfect area of school. - So when I was doing it, it was like, oh, look at this guy, he's dating, he's like, he's dating fancy, he's dating famous girls. It was sort of weird. - That's bad? - And the guy before me. - Me and Hawk Girls is pant. - Well, it's, it's an old boys club, and it's a very traditional. - Oh, like, like the shower. - Yeah, like the shower. So it's 95% gay, yeah. You're like, one of the only guys that gets pussy, and now you're getting, you got judged for it. You got suspended for getting pussy? - Yeah, essentially, right. - You decide, you announce you wanted to be a Shakespearean actor after you retired. - Yeah. And then like, you've pursued creative, like, you've been doing something from eight, so like, when did you retire? - I was 33, maybe. - So it's one thing you're holding. - Yeah. - And like, when I was watching that devil's Ranger series, that's war. - Yeah. - You're a fucking war, right? - I think, I think what happened was I was burnt out. - Yeah. - Because I was tired of being chased, you know, Gary was up my, the league. There was always something. Like, when I think of back to Eisenman saying, just shut the fuck up, it was too late at that point. - Yeah. - There had been so much heat. And like, it was- - You had a career waiting for you. - Probably as a result of that. - Well, I played it, I played long enough that I said, if I don't do it now and I stay, then they pull you back in. Now I'm 40 when I'm done. And I know I wanna do something else. - Yeah, yeah. - I gotta do it now while I'm young and energized and like, and thank God that, yeah, thank God that, I'd have more money now, I guess, you know? - You're competing against other dudes your whole life, right? Like, how do they replace that, right? - Do do it. - It's like doing like, beautiful, gorgeous paintings and like, you know, reading beautiful books. - Well, I don't. - Well, those guys are like, are they gambling? Or are they like, you know? - It gets dark. - Yeah, it gets dark. - It gets dark. - Yeah. - It gets dark. - Is there a support network, like for the last, like? - I think it's getting better for the boys. - Like the players association has something there. - I think it's getting better. - Yeah. - You know, we have great medical. So, yes, they're in much better situations than the average person, but they're also dealing with like, fuck, it's pretty dark. - Uh-huh. - It's dark because you don't know, like, you don't know anything. You've only done one thing. - Well, you're trying to kill another guy your whole life. - And then. - And then you're like, now you're like at the wood, like, you're just a regular guy. - Yeah, yeah. - It gets dark. - Yeah. - And you gotta figure out how to fucking, time is your enemy when you stop playing. - You push a cop, right? - Oh, in LA, yeah. Well, no, they-- - In Tifa, in Tifa style. - Yeah. - They said, you devoted the police. - They said that, no, they tried to come in the house. This was in Laurel Canyon, too, by the way, which is-- - Fat? - You know, very hippity, dippity, right? Earthy. Yeah, they had an LAPD helicopter on top of the house telling me to surrender. And then I think I was on the back page of the post for that. The piggies, 'cause I was-- - Whatever, all I'm saying is this. - Is that what you-- - No, you're transitioning into a real life. It must be hard not to push every cop you see. You're like a vegan in a history of ours. - Yes. - Yeah. - I couldn't, or fight club, or, you know, I couldn't go to work. I couldn't work in a regular atmosphere. When you come from an atmosphere where you're allowed to fight your co-worker, as a positive step, to then go into the public sector and what, what? I mean, I don't know, work for a fan duel, or even at a fan duel. I'm sure there would be issues. - I would punch for it, yeah, I would punch for it. - Yeah. - So do you feel like you got out of the shit? You're like, you got out of love. - I got out of love. - Yeah, yeah. And you needed some time, and I was always-- - It has to be a transition, right? - Yeah. - Because my job, like I said in the book, I felt like a protector. So, taking out my flamethrower, I would say was, I was being, it was a precautionary step. I didn't look at it as I was just making sure everything was cool out there. - Right, 'cause like the best player on one team, like Sidney Crosby's got into one fight, right? - Yeah. - Right? So, 'cause there's a night like you, and he's like, oh thank you. - Yes. - Like who comes in and handles it. - It handles it. - So the transition takes a while. - So chivalrous. - It takes a while. - Was there another guy where the two of you were like, we love fighting each other? - On another team. - Kind of romantic, I don't know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, me and Darcy Tucker did. - Yeah, you said great. - Yeah, and I love him. - Are you high five after us? You're like, no, no, but, and you know what's interesting. It's so crazy, 'cause Darcy Tucker married one of his teammates, sisters. That was something that I would approach. - I was so you tripped that. - Yes, yes. - Well, I would tell the teammate that Darcy is digging her so good to that. - That's what I would, I kept it away from him. - And then Darcy would come in and say, you would defend his brother-in-law. - Brother-in-law. - If his brother-in-law didn't snap, Darcy was coming over the top to defend his honor. So it was a win-win. - Family stuff worked best. What worked best? - I mean, sisters, you would get, the wires would get crossed. If the sisters-- - You just be the eye, folks, your sister. I'd be like, she's great, and you're great. And I would love-- - I would love it. - I would love it. - I would love it, I would give you my blessing. - Right, but that's the-- - I'm Joe Sackic. - That's like Joe Sackic would be like you. - I love that for you. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was just anything ex-girlfriend. - Ex-girlfriend. - Ex-girlfriend, 'cause-- - You're such a, who cares? - Well, 'cause she's now dating my teammate. - But that's what a bro goes through, right? - Yeah, okay. - It was like, you have sex before me! - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - The fundamentals. - Let's get it. So, you're about to be your third Christopher Nolan. - Okay, when I was done playing, I did Dancing with the Stars. And one of the producers on Dancing with the Stars, husband, is a guy by the name of John Papsidero, who I think is-- - He's a hockey div. - Well, no, he's a casting director. - I know, but it sounds like a hockey div. - Yeah, it does, like yeah, Papsidero. - Papsidero, you used to hit like a truck, like a truck. - So, because I did Dancing with the Stars, a few years later, my buddy Pete Berg put me in a movie called Patriots Day. I've never been on a movie set. - I saw it in a hotel was it. - And I took the train up to Boston, and the combination of those two events, because once I did the thing in Boston with Pete, I go, that's the closest thing I've ever felt to fighting at center ice in Madison Square Garden. I'm on set, there's 200 people, all of a sudden, they go action, and it's like-- - You're acting. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, because I did Dancing with the Stars, and now did this bird movie, now I get connected to John Papsidero, who has a history of casting and breaking, like he likes interesting dudes, okay? And he puts me in tenet, was the first one, and I did six weeks on tenet. - The last final sequence when all the shits were blowing the shit up, yeah. - Inverted. Inverted ordinances and all that I got that movie really easy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you did Really it took me like 14 times with the subtitles on and I was in the movie to figure it out but you should ask while you're there. I Then I did Oppenheimer and I auditioned for these roles. Yeah, I do the thing the sides the tape and I don't know what happened at that point, but like much like my hockey career I had a couple of mentors like Geez that guided me that that like liked what was going on Uh-huh, and I guess I just finished Doing the Odyssey and and so that's my third one And now I'm a you know a working actor like I I'll go I'll go anywhere Is he like a general onset? How's he how's he running that show? Oh, he's like he's like a He's like patent or something. That's what I imagine. He's so good. He is. He's so good. How's he he doesn't lose his cool I imagine no no, I mean I don't he's like He's like firing on a different wavelength. He's like yeah, he's like Shohei, right? He he he he sees everything happen before it happens. Yeah, or also, you know Just trust the beauty of creativity. Yeah, and hires the best people and lets them paint inside structure inside fucking Like reality because that's the other thing he builds reality I mean yeah, and he also does everything in camera everything. Yeah, the whole thing with like a fucking iMac's like Yeah, we were in we were just all over the world. So he's basically a Scotty right? He's like he's the Scotty of movie. He's the Scotty Bowman. Yeah, the Scotty Bowman of movies really he is We used to wait because I once sat in a sauna with Scotty Bowman really What was it? What was what he looked like there? He had a towel just under his I would imagine so right up to the right right up to the top Yeah, okay, so he looked like he was in fighting shape and I hope to God I do I hope to God because you know, I was a kid and insane when I met him and he he sat and he talked to me about He my dad and my dad being a teacher and what high school he would always talk about things that had nothing to do with what I think he was trying to get you to Understand really in a very beautiful way like I'd you and I think that that's how I would the comparison Chris that was a good pool. Yeah, wow. Yeah, really? Yeah, like in the ether in terms of like direct so he was directing you Scotty Bowman. Yes, that is one of the dopest things I've ever heard. Yes. I love it when sports stuff is expressed that way Yes, like in a different wow. Yeah, I love fucking sports You should are we gonna go to games together. Yes, here we go. Yeah, are we boys? I think so Yeah, can I just close I didn't know how this was gonna go by the way No, I'm a I'm a great. I'm just great to be around good. What camp did you go to Jews? No, I know which one? My donic where I think it was in southern Germany or Poland Wow, not I want to ask you one last question. You think a girlfriend will ever like like respect you If she doesn't feel like you could have if you could kill her with your bare hands. No, yeah, you're right So she suit that really that's always that you want to do it It's always in the back of her head Just that you want to like if you just and you know when I see that situation and if a guy can't I have compassion for her Because I know She's totally not Fulfilled because she doesn't feel safe. What do you mean? What? There's other types of Which is why I come back to it. Yeah, and you know why you're gonna see us be out of kill. We're gonna graph Not right now. No, don't stand up. So everybody can see the word five ten five ten and he went league to everyone Oh You Thanks for watching like and subscribe