Seagate's 2-Star General Turned CHRO: 7,000 Employees AI-Trained, No AI Agents on Org Charts

Hello everyone, welcome to today's episode of Future Ready Leadership. My guest today is Patricia Frost. She's the EVP and Chief People and Places Officer at Seagate Technology. Before we jump in, of course, I want to quickly mention the CHRO group. So if you're listening and watching your Chief HR or Chief People Officer, you can learn more about it by going to FutureOfWorkLeaders.com. I think we now have just over 40 CHROs. And our next in-person event will be January 13th and 14th in the Bay Area. So again, you can learn more at FutureOfWorkLeaders.com. Patricia, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. It's wonderful. It's a great day. Yeah, before we get into any of the fun stuff, I wanted to get a little bit of just background information about you because I was reading that you were a two-star major general in the US Army. And so, first, of course, thank you so much for your service. But I'm curious to get your story there. How did you get involved? What were you doing? I know you served, I believe, with your husband as well, if I read correctly. Yes, yes. So we were doing military family. I have a daughter that just this past weekend reported to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri for combat engineers as a Second Lieutenant. So very, very proud, proudest moment as a mom. And yes, so five generations of service in my family. So including my brother and my cousins. And if you weren't in the military, you were actually either a nurse or an educator. My mother was a school teacher and all my aunts were nurses. So just probably just a lineage of service is how I grew up. And, you know, moving all the time, which really brought me to wanting to serve as well. Yeah. So I just kind of follow, are you saying I followed in my dad's footsteps? But, you know, being the first female of the family to join and now my daughter is the second. So it's just exciting. And I would not change 32 years of just the most incredible profession anyone could ever have. And it centers on people, especially the US Army. You know, we have platforms, but not platforms like Navy and Air Force, which is very platform centric. And the army, it's about people and ground troops on the battlefield. How do you motivate influence work with allies and partners? So I think that really shaped also how I look at leadership and how do you deliver the results and the outcomes. And you're really asking, regardless of any service that you're in, you're asking our men and women to do the most challenging mission. And to serve their nation. And that's any nation too, because I'm proud of so many of the countries that I was able to serve with and serve alongside. And I think that just really shaped me for now, this second chapter at sea gate, being able to be part of people in places. And really ground it again around people, which I think I'm just so fortunate and this disruptive era of technology. That it still centers me on people at the center of everything that we do. And the technology is augmenting our capabilities and that's really going to drive our success in this new environment, which I think is different than anything we've ever experienced. I couldn't agree with you more. What exactly did you do when you were an army? So I started as an intelligence officer and then in my last about five years, I moved into cyber. So cyber security and cyber defense offensive operations. And so again, I go in this has shaped how I operate at sea gate to is you just can't look at the title of someone. You could look at my title as a military intelligence officer, but within that, I was able to do signals intelligence. I was able to work with imagery intelligence, all source intelligence. And then as cyber became a field, then move into the cyber part of our military service. So again, I always think about you have your skills, but do you really unpack the title and look at the capabilities of a person in the potential of that person? And I think the military does that so well and always pushing every officer soldier and then giving us different resources and skills to find other opportunities within the military. Yeah, the cyber space is so fascinating. I mean, that's where, you know, so many organizations around the world are concerned about cyber security threats. That's where a lot of people argue that if there's going to be a God forbid a future world war, it's going to be fought cyber, it's going to be digitally, it's going to be AI versus AI. So it's a fascinating space, especially when you keep hearing about all the different things that are coming out with the capability of these AI tools. So it's obviously I'm not going to ask you. That's the whole other episode. It's what's your playbook. Do you know what your center, we call it center of gravity in the military, but what's your Holy Grail and how do you do that ring defense and that defense and depth strategy. I mean, just the analysis that you have to do about looking at those cyber threats. It's not, it's not if it will happen. It's when it will happen. We will all experience it. Every company will have some type of cyber event that they're dealing with, but I think us even just as, you know, in our personal lives can be disrupted. So it's the world we live in. Everything is digital. So it's a different threat landscape now. And I think everyone has to pay attention to it. Yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely. When you think of a kind of organizational preparedness now. How do you think most organizations are viewing cyber? Do you think a lot of them are prepared? Are they thinking through this? Do they have plans and capabilities in place? Or do you find the most organizations are just kind of operating as if, you know, it's still five or 10 years ago and they're just kind of floating around, you know, hoping nothing that's going to happen. You always probably hate this answer. I think it depends. Like if you're in the financial institutions, you definitely pay attention to it. You're in our type of work or we have to make sure everyone's data is stored and stored securely. It's definitely top of mind. I do think a lot of companies don't understand the landscape and probably don't spend enough time. I always say you can, you will know it's where does the CSO sit within the org structure. And what type of voice does the CSO have at the table? And if they don't have a voice, if they're not presenting to the board of directors and then shame on the board for not asking the question, but, you know, looking at those practices will tell you the priority that the company puts on cyber security. Okay. And before we jump into some of the stuff you're doing internally in AI, if you were to give people kind of like a simple framework or guidance for cyber. So when a lot of people are meeting with their leadership team with their executive team, are there maybe like three to five buckets of conversations that they need to be having. It sounds like one of them you mentioned was around the CSO and where they sit, you mentioned something like the Holy Grail, like can you unpack maybe just a few three to five of those frameworks just so people can have a sense of what conversations they should be having. Right. I think again, I haven't been operating in this space truly because I've been more focused on people, but I think it's just tried and true. First, where does the CSO sit? How are they resourced? What is their background? Can they deliver? Right. Because that person and their team matters. I think the company has to make decisions of what are they in source and what are they outsource. It is really hard to keep up with this landscape. We have incredible companies out there that provide a service for companies like Bandian and others that you can lean on. So understand what you're going to spend your resources on on in sourcing and outsourcing and can your employees keep up with the changing landscape. What are you doing with their education? They're training. It's a tremendous amount of resources to stay current on what's happening to the cyber threat. Where are you working with, and I always say the public and private partnership of working with, especially a government, whether you're US government or other governments, depending on where your company sits, to understand what is the threats because certain industries are national assets. There's a lot in that share of relationships, so understanding the type of company you are, the relationships you need to have between the public and private. And then I would say it's literally just what we would call is intelligence preparation of your environment. Do the analysis of your IT and for us, we have our IT network, our information technology network, but then we also have an operational technology network, which is our manufacturing. So you really have to have a good understanding of where those networks cross each other. What is at risk, because in most companies, if they've been around, like it's been around for 50 years, a lot of our operational technology and that type of equipment is old, are detached. So how do you ring fence that technology? So again, doing that analysis and really understanding what is most important to keep the company viable. And then how do you defend it and what are the resources you put against it? So laying out that environment and understanding it and really understand how does data flow, right? Because data flowing from the factory or what could stop production and how does that go into the corporate network. You just really have to buy the type of company or how do you look at your flow of data and technology and how does your company. Did you follow the recent Binance hack? Did you hear about that? I did. I did. I'm not going to comment on it but yeah. There's like take all these use cases and say how does that fit? You could take the most recent cyber incidents and say well how would I respond? We do this every year in our enterprise crisis team management of taking certain use cases that we've read about and say how would see get respond? How would that impact us? What does that mean to us? It's a crazy story. For people who are not familiar with it, basically what happened is these supposed North Korean agents posed as recruiters from a legitimate recruiting website and they did an interview with an engineer inside of Binance and they showed them social proof, they showed them social media accounts showing that they're kind of like real people and they're legitimate and then for the second round of interviews they basically told this engineered Binance hey we have kind of like a case study or an assignment we need you to do and to do that download this file and he downloaded on his work computer they hijacked some of the AI tools at Binance it spread into other computers and next thing you know six point three billion dollars are gone and so that to me the irony there is that there's so much talk about AI capabilities and AI versus AI but it seems to me like a big weak link going forward is just going to be employees. Oh there will be the weakest link yeah always the weakest link and that has not changed and so how do you train your employees and then understand mistakes will happen but again once that happens you know just any type of fishing how do you then react to it how does your system react to it but employees have to know that they can report things and there's not going to be a backlash against them too right. Again mistakes are going to happen for us even just on the recruiting side when I look at some of these recruiting hacks you know our final step of the onboarding is in person like that person physically has to come we don't do as much remote hiring as probably some companies do but that final step make them come into the office. I heard that I can't remember if it was Gartner or PWC they came out and they said by 2028 I believe they estimate that I think it was one out of every five applicants that an organization is going to get is going to be fake and so you get I have seen that report I have to go look that one up. Yeah I think it was either Gartner or PWC I have to I'll see if I can find that one while we're speaking but yeah I mean people can engineer fake resumes you can create fake avatars you can have bots a friend of mine was telling me that he's using an AI tool that just applies for a ton of jobs for him every single day and that's what we're seeing so what's happening to our recruiters is they're getting inundated and so one candidate can actually apply to a job but several times by just changing their resume so they're using different keywords that they're bringing to the top of their resume so it's still the same person they've just let the AI modify their resume that they think will keep bringing their resume to the top so we have to use AI to help triage the resumes that are coming in but unlike some companies we have kept the human recruiter and kept a very robust talent acquisition team because we need that checks and balances when we start to get into the next phase it has to be the human in the loop it has to be the human interviewer because culture fit is so important as well like it can't just be skills fit yeah I'm a huge fan of that I mean I I even kind of my daily podcast episodes that I do where I break down the top news stories I always say that organizations need to do a better job of figuring out which areas should stay human and which ones should go to AI and the areas like recruiting and interviewing performance reviews like that stuff needs to be human for exactly this reason because otherwise you know you're not you're not really figuring out who's actually a good fit for your company or not but I mean I when Jenny I first hit you know two years ago you had a lot of folks talking about well HR is gonna go away yeah HR they HR field is is going to pretty much be upended and I'm thinking like do you not work in a company with humans because humans are really messy people humans are really complicated you obviously don't know what the average HR business partner does from a day into day I day out basis right and the things that they work on and I and I think yes Jenny I can help us in some of the tactical workflows and some of those mundane tasks but it then allows to elevate us to the things that matter the human human connection where do we want to focus our managers in the future I just think this is just a different way of us I just say technology just augments people and we're still at the center of everything we do and that's gonna have to stay important if you value the culture of your company going forward that's gonna be one of our one of our January sessions is gonna be from the CHR of one of these big big firms and it's gonna be around that exact theme are we gonna need HR in the next five years or what is HR gonna look like in the coming years surprising me when when I talked to the teachers that are part of our group this is a big conversation that comes up they're trying to figure out well you know what how is HR gonna shift are we gonna even have HR what does all this look like so these are all I think very big and important questions for people to be thinking about I think you have to put the technology in the hands of the managers and we need to do a better job of giving them tools to how do they do career mapping for employees learning and development for employees but at the end of the day some of the programs that we deliver like one of our best programs that we have at C.G. right now is called leadership velocity program and we take 35 of our employees every year it's a year long kind of immersion program and we take them and we take them to all of our key manufacturing sites and they get to so this is middle management middle professionals this is below for most part below the director level but we see these as high potential talent and we take them to these environments we just did the first cohort for this year again we took them to Singapore to our manufacturing site there and half the EVPs came in and spoke to them so it's they sign in DAs we kind of be very transparent with them but the key of that program is that's human deliver that's an it's an HR program but it's truly a business sponsored program and how can we speed up their business acumen their efficiency of really understanding because as a manufacturing company like C.G.A. it is we do a vertical line manufacturing so we're very vertically siloed and what we're trying to do is open the aperture for them to see all the opportunities of where their skillsets especially our engineers that they can be applied in many different departments across the company but because of where they sit and where they work and many of them are heads down working very hard because the demand is high we need them to stop a minute pick their heads up and go okay these are opportunities I never thought would be available to me and so very excited like I think we can spend more time on programs that have impact and it goes to what are the experiences we want our employees to have I'm I just focus on employee experience and HR owns that we we're the ones that have to make sure we're curating and caring for employee experience going forward and I believe employee experience you get it right increases engagement which equals productivity yeah so me centers on the experience side and that's something HR needs to lead which is why for AI the rollout of AI at C.G.A. I told my team we have to be front and center on this what is the experience we want our employees to have as we roll out AI tools that means democratization of the tools everyone gets access to the tools that we have available everyone gets access to the training and the resources we equip them so they don't feel they're losing their job they get to redefine their job from the ground up what how does your job look different while you're now being augmented with AI so very individually focused first and now we're moving them this year into team and function so what workflows change because that's where you get to the true efficiency yes you can gain your own individual efficiencies but the business value comes when you really start to look at those larger workflows so what how does that change and then it frees up your capacity and if you had more capacity in your day where would you go spend that time now have that conversation with your manager yeah so is this a series of workshops that you're doing because I like the approach I think it makes sense but how do you actually teach that as far as workflows you know you mentioned engagement for example I think Gallup came out recently said that in the United States where to for the last two decades or something like that we're at the low the point we've been in terms of annual employee engagement across the board. I don't put a ton of stake in those numbers to be honest, but it still kind of correlates with what you're saying. But I'm just curious about this program to teach employees how to redesign their roles, rethink through workflows. Can you share a little bit more about that? Sure. So when we started two years ago, I recognized that, again, not based on an employee's title, that we probably had early adopters that were so far ahead, as we were learning that all the Gen AI tools that they were already there. They were doing it on their personal laptops. They were at home in their home network. I mean, we have really an employees. So we said, we need business leads for every function. So we have about 35 business leads across the company. And then we said, "Okay, who wants to raise our hand to be an AI champion?" So we have over 400 volunteer AI champions that helped us design training. And everyone's gone through the training. We have over 7,000 of our professional employees that have gone through AI training, which is incredible. 7,000 that have completed it, completed all of our AI training. And you have 30,000 total, right? 30,000 total, 8,000 professionals. So 22,000 is frontline. So of the 8,000 professionals, that was where we were focusing the Gen AI tools. So of that, but we started with business leaders who really understood this AI changing environment that could speak for their function, understand workflows in their function, and then who are the early adopters that want to raise their hand, because this is on top of your day job, do the AI training, become an advocate for AI within your function, and be one step ahead of the rest of the company. And they created these Fridays. We kind of called it no staff meeting Fridays of Fridays. You get to do focus on training. We did AI and coffee sinks. You know, come talk about the best prompt. Remember when AI first came out, the prompt had to be written very specifically to get the type of result you want. Now it doesn't matter. Now you can basically put anything in there and something will come out. Maybe not exactly the result you want, but you'll get an outcome. So, you know, things have progressed. So now those 400 really become that force multiplier within the company. And they are helping us now look at workflows. But now I've got 7,000 people who have a foundational understanding of how to use the tools. So then it's just these building blocks, right? How do you get to the business value? So now we're putting them through workflow innovation training. What does it mean to automate your workflow? And more importantly, where is the human and the human decision maker in the loop of them? Interesting. What does that workflow training look like? Are you getting these 400 AI champions? Are they kind of sitting side by side with employees and saying, okay, show me how you work during the day? What do you do? Kind of mapping that and then saying, okay, well, here's how you can use AI. Like, how do you do that? So you start with something really simple. So I went through the workflow training. I've tried to practice when I preach and make go through every training and tell anyone else to go through. And so the workflow training starts with you as an individual and it walks you through a workshop. You just do it online. It's just you and your laptop. And so it was Patricia, what's your biggest pain point? Like, where do I spend a lot of time that probably could be automated? So mine is a, you know, bi-monthly update that I send to the senior leadership team. And I get all this input from across people in places. How do I make that more of an executive level product? So it walked me through walk through the steps of how that gets built today. Very manual process, a lot of cut and paste. And so it walked me through how AI would augment that. Where would the edit and review process be? Because I don't want it to just create something and then send it. I need to edit it. And I need to be the author of it, right? So that's just one small one. But it just, it starts there with what are your employee friction points? And then I can sit with some of my AI champions and say, well, at my level, this is where I see workflow issues. And how do we augment that? Some of it may be so complicated, because it's cross-functional. How HR data moves to finance or to another part of the business that I might need IT AI support. So it just depends. Okay, so it's a self-directed kind of interface that people go through and ask you a series of questions then kind of guides you through it. Yes. And then we did top down. So in May at our senior leadership team meeting, which is SVP, senior vice presidents and above, our CEO said, give me an enterprise strategic workflow that you want automated. So we all by function presented kind of our enterprise pain points. And so it was like, well, then how do we prioritize those at the C suite level? Because there's only so many, you know, resources. So how do we look at that? And so we did that. And now we have a roadmap of enterprise workflows that we want to get done over the next year. So again, I think it has to be top down. Is it a priority for the leadership at the top and bottom up driven? And then people aren't so intimidated that this is coming after my job. And I can tell everyone redefine your role. Yeah, the redefining the role, I think, is kind of a big wake up call for a lot of people. Yeah, because I feel like when it comes to AI, a lot of employees are obsessed with how do I become more productive? But there's not a lot of conversations around how do I actually redesign that role in general? Are you also looking at the role that the AI and the agentic tools are going to play when it comes to org structure, when it comes to leadership or pay, you have employees who are going to come to you and say, "Hey Patricia, I manage 10 AI agents there for I'm a manager. I should be called a manager and paid like a manager." Yes, we are not there yet. And I will tell you, we also will not put AI agents on an org chart. Interesting. Tell me more about that. The CEO and I have had this discussion because I think when I look at the complexity of building a hard disk drive and the complexity of our business, AI cannot build a hard disk drive. So do I want to demean an engineer showing, "Well, here's the engineer and here's the AI agent that's of equal importance to that human?" I don't believe the agents are there yet. And I'm not putting them on an org chart. And so that's not what you're going to see at Seagate. Now, we have an agent management system that is a different system where we have owners of agents because you want to make sure is that agent even still valid, you know, doesn't need to be deleted, you know, who's making sure that agent is still operating within its guard rails that it's supposed to. So that is managed by IT to say the purpose and owner of that agent. And then that will have checks and balances throughout the year, right? But we will not show them on an org chart whether or not someone should be a manager, per se. Right now, my answer is no. Because you don't deal with the same complexities that a manager who has to manage a team. And remember, you know, we're a manufacturing company with a lot of frontline workers. And those frontline workers are extremely important and I'm not going to take any of that value away of what they deliver. Yeah, it's an interesting take because I know there are some companies that are trying to figure out how do we put agents on the org chart. And I think it was Microsoft even was it earlier this year where they said, "Oh yeah, I think of these agents as your co-workers and we encourage you to name them." And you know, even I heard that I'm like, "Wait a minute. I don't name my RoboVac or my pool cleaner. I'm not going to start talking to these agents and say, "Hey, John, can you please get this document over to me?" I mean, these tools are very powerful. Like, I used Mews over the past few days and I built a whole new website for our CHRO group. But I knew I was engaging with a tool. I didn't say like, "Hey, Charles, good morning. Can you please. " None of that. It's like, "Okay, here's what I need." I'm like, "Go." How you manage agents is not how you manage humans. Yeah, so organizations that are kind of enter purmorphizing and they're saying, "Oh, you agents like people and put them on the org chart." Are you kind of like, "Whoa, you guys are a little wacky?" Well, especially, you're going to delete, you know, get rid of agents left and right because this technology is moving so fast. You don't shed people that fast. There's outcomes that come when you have to restructure a human workforce. That doesn't come when you have to just say, "Oh, delete agent. Don't need you anymore." It's to me, it's just apples and orange conversation. How do you manage that? Because there are some, and I agree, I think there are different types of agents. There are some agents, for example, that are just kind of like business process automation. They. take information from one document, they copy information into another document. But then for example, like in my case, when I use Muse, Muse does a lot of very different types of dynamic work for me, whether it's building a website for the community, whether it's helping me research something, whether it's designing something for me. So it's dynamic and you kind of have to manage it from a work perspective with a way that you would a person in terms of deliverables, deadlines, what's the update on this. But obviously the whole human and emotional part isn't there. Coaching, mentoring, dealing with difficult times. None of that's there. So if there's an employee, for example, who's managing several agents who are doing dynamic work, where the employee is accountable for the work, would you still say they're not a manager, but maybe they're just kind of a, I don't know, I don't know what you would call them. I think that's something I would love for you to come back from your conference and say, what is that new job role? Because this is, again, this technology is going to make us look at roles differently going forward. Job roles in every company are going to have to evolve. Just everyone's role is going to evolve. And we need to recognize that. But then what is that expectation? And again, I say for anyone using any AI, every single one of us is accountable and own the output. You can't blame that on the agent. The employee, the leader who presents that data, that outcome, that product result, owns it. Correct. So I think we have to, that might be something when we think about that job role in someone's managing agents. Then I would go back to is that person, actually one, who can validate and certify the results and be accountable for them. So that might be a different discussion of how you look at that job role. Yeah, I did a on sub-stack. I did a deep dive a couple of days ago and I put several different types of criteria. I had kind of at the bottom, I put user, which is level one, which is somebody who's just using these AI tools. Number two, I had a delegator who, somebody who can maybe hand over some dynamic work over to any agents. And they review the output and stuff like that. And then I kind of have a dotted line. And after that, I put kind of the managerial layers. And so one could be a supervisor of agents where you're running agents, they're doing dynamic workflow. You set the bar, you own the results. Above that, I had orchestrator where somebody who's designing multi agent systems. And then above that, I had agent leader where somebody who sits at the very highest level is deciding what are people doing versus what are agents doing across a function. They help build each other's capability. People are responsible for the results there. So I put together a little bit of what you would call like a ladder. Because I think there's a difference between a user of AI tools, a user of agents and more on kind of the higher layer there, the designer, the person who's balancing between humans and agents. So I find that interesting. Because I think of some of our more complicated workflows that IT will help us design and build. And then that workflow comes over into HR finance sales regardless of the function, right? But then that designer is kind of-- now it's over in the function. So now the function owns it. Yeah, it's a little messy, right? We'll complicate it. And then-- Yeah. So-- Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I suppose one stands a lot of organizations could take is like, look, technology's technology. I don't care what you're doing. It's a tool. You're using a tool. Don't talk to me about this. And it certainly knows some organizations who are taking that stance. And they're like, what are you talking about? You're not getting any promotions or salary increases for managing a technology like good for you. Everyone else has to learn how to do that as well. That's just part of your job. And then there are other organizations who I'm starting to hear murmurings where their employees are starting to ask them, like, hey, you know, can I get a pay increase? Can I be called an agent manager? So it's-- I don't know. I think next year we'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I would like to see how it evolves over the next year. I go again a little bit on that AI is not magic. It is a tool. It's how do we integrate it into our workflows and into the human workforce? And then what are those different gates that we're going to have? And I don't know that we've deployed enough to say that I have those roles defined yet, that you would need that. I definitely have, you know, when I look at-- we're just doing job roles. We're doing a big job architecture project right now across C-gate. And as I'm looking at it, I said, I don't know that I need full-time AI agent developers in HR. Maybe those actually sit-- those developers sit in IT. I absolutely need people to be technically fluent. Like, I know that a built agent, right? There may be some that can actually do some basic level of gentifying processes and build agents. But for the complex work, maybe that is going to sit outside of HR. I'm not there that we need that specific job role in HR. So I think as we do our job architecture project, we're trying to figure out what are the new roles? Where do those sit? How would we define them? And they will get to your question of, is there actually a manager? I'm not there on a manager role yet. OK, got it. But I like the sticking from to the org chart. I think that's an important stance for organizations to take, and I tend to lean with you in that direction as far as not putting them on an org chart, because they're not people. And even somebody in our last monthly CHR group, he's like, what are you going to do? We have agent 64192 reporting to this person, and then they disappear to your point. Everything gets re-organized. It just doesn't make sense in that kind of a world. So if the agent goes rogue and we're a public company, the board is going after a functional leader. Yeah. Right. How did that happen? What were the rules and guard roles that you haven't-- did you not have in place? I mean, I still go back to. I mean, that's why I put agents on the organizational chart. They're not accountable. Yep. Yeah, I agree with you on that. I know we only have a couple minutes left here. Is there anything else that you can share about what you're doing internally? I really like this portal that you made where employees can answer a couple of questions and think through their workflow. We talked a little bit about this leadership program that you have going on internally with, I think you said, 35 employees who go to all the different facilities. Anything else that you want to highlight as far as programs or initiatives you have going on? Well, we've kind of gotten some feedback from people like C-Gate. We're going back to Oswool, because I'm going back to job architecture. I call it the workforce architecture, work architecture, because I believe if we're going to amplify humans as we introduce this technology to amplify us, it is and it is augmented by this AI transformation. So if we say we're doing it and I hate the word transformation, it gets totally overused. If we say we have an objective of AI transformation, I really think that's human amplification. So I look at that starts with job architecture. And it's pretty old school, but our job roles in C-Gate had not been reviewed in a while. So really breaking down the job role, understanding the work tasks, the skills, and the competencies that go with that role. And this will be a living job architecture. It will always be evolving. And then that will allow us to get into the workflow, because that productivity is going to change. So how do you look at that human plus AI capability plus the experience, that workplace experience, which is going to equal productivity. And with that job architecture, we're working with a company out of Germany called Co-Brainer. They can show us-- because they look across the globe, scraping the internet-- they can show us in job roles today how much of that role can be automated today. So I can put any job role that exists today that's out on LinkedIn or any other job board and say, can you tell me how much of that job today has been automated due to AI or any other type of technical transformation? And it gives a manager a different conversation to have to say, listen, because everyone's going to be at a different maturity level. Some companies have already been automating a lot. Some haven't. But it gives a manager a place to start to say, in this tool, I see 10% of this role can be automated. Why don't you go focus some effort there, which frees up 10% of your path capacity to work on these tasks? And again, so then that job profile, that job role, will continue to evolve over time. Access to technology improves. But for me, that job architecture is our data foundation in which we're an SAP company. So in SAP, that's the data foundation in which every other module in SAP will be on top of. So your learning development, your career profile, how do you look at other opportunities and see-gate? What are the skills I need to have? It'll be more transparent because all those skills across 30,000 jobs will be in this job architecture. Yeah, we have quite a few members who are using SAP. Obviously, some are using Workday, you get Oracle, you get UKG, you get Google Play. Any of them where you have to build your, so I go back to principal number one of AI, is your data clean? Do you have the right data foundation? Because we're going to run any of these tools on top of it. That is step number one. So for us, if we really want to give people the right career development plans, the right learning profiles, skills, architecture, I need the job architecture to be clean. Yeah, and that takes a long time to do that. We're going to do that in nine months. Wow, that's awesome. So for people who are not familiar with the concept of job architecture, can you explain what exactly that is and what you're doing there, and I didn't really have a couple minutes. Yeah, so really basic. Think of your resume. It's your job description. It's that role of how that role sits in the company. It's the tasks that you do. The tasks are critical, especially if you're going to run a gen to AI on the top of it. What are the tasks, the primary tasks that that job role was created for? So it's kind of your outputs, right? And then the skills required to do that job role. And then there will be a competency as well. So for a professional level one engineer, you get out all these 10 to 15 skills, but your proficiency, your competency level is low. But if you want to be promoted to the second level, you know, P2 engineer, then you can actually then see, I need to increase my skill competency in these areas. So whether you're, you know, a chemical engineer or, I mean, you can name it, right? It will show you at least for C gate, where it will give more transparency of where it can be successful. And how often does that change? Is that something dynamic that changes every quarter, every year? So as we do it, we're going to do 100% now. And then what I'd like to do is your HR business partner can evolve that as org structures change. And it's going to be a living document document. So you go in and managers can say this job role, this job family, so family sits at the top, you know, like human resources, and then the job roles within human resources, these roles have changed. Some roles may disappear. But I look at that and I said that the people don't necessarily disappear. It's how do you migrate that person over into a different role? Because to me, you've already invested so much time in knowing our processes, our culture, how we run as a company, everyone brings so much passion and skills. We should be able to find another role for them. Yeah, having that picture is very interesting as far as skills and kind of mapping that out, where are the strengths, where are the weaknesses? What should we be doing? Right, having that picture I think is critical, especially in a world that is changing as quickly as it is. So I'd be very curious to hear when this is all done and what that's going to look like for you guys. My number one objective is a manager can go in the tool and have a more rich conversation, human to human, with their employee, and the employee can go in there and see very transparently how they're doing. Yeah. So I did changes that conversation. And then some managers like, oh gosh, the employees asking me a development question, where do I even start? Well, now this will give them all the cues to have the right conversation with the employee. So I really hope it changes that dynamic. Yeah, it sounds like it will. And Patricia, I know we're at a time, but where can people go to learn more about you, anything you want to mention for people to learn about C-Gate, your LinkedIn profile, anything that you want to-- Yeah, I would say we're pretty robust on LinkedIn. We're always trying to celebrate our successes. And we have really tried to celebrate our employees and things that we're doing out in the communities and which we work. So LinkedIn's always a great place. Any of the tech publications, I'm on LinkedIn a lot. I'm a voracious reader. I'm always posting about books that I'm reading where I'm also doing my own learning and curiosity. So I'm always happy to have a book dialogue conversation with anyone out there because it always stretches my mind of how I should be looking at things differently. So shout out the dialogue. Just reach out to me. It would be great. Very cool. Patricia, thank you so much for taking time out of your day. Really appreciate it. Thanks.