You're listening to the "South You Love Cast" dance savages, sex, and relationship show for grownups. If you're under 18, get out of here, young man. If you're stuck in a relationship quandary, Or if you're looking for sexual harmony, Well, there's nothing you can't ask on the savage love cast. Every time I think, I finally manage to kill this monster. Every time I think, I manage to drive that mother fucking stake through its mother fucking heart. Its hand pushes through the dirt and it crawls out of its grave. Like Michael Myers or Freddie Krueger or Chuckie, it refuses to die. It can't be killed, it just keeps coming. This monster does more damage to monogamous relationships than a million polymemoirs Ever could and yet there is no moral panic about it. This monster does to monogamous relationships, what killers and slasher phones do to sexually active teenagers. It tears them apart. I am talking of course about microcheating. Not microcheating itself, which isn't actually cheating. Cheating is cheating, microcheating is bullshit. I'm talking about the idea of microcheating. The concept, the meme. This time, it's the Atlantic that looked in the mirror and said, I believe in the ghost of Mary Worth's microcheating ex-boyfriend Tim three times causing the monster to reappear. Now, the Atlantic is a fine publication. I'm a subscriber. It's home to most of my favorite writers. But I don't understand how they could publish a piece about microcheating under the headline, The New Infidelity, where the Atlantic's fact checkers all stuck in long lines the airport last week because there's nothing new about microcheating. George W. Bush was still president of the United States when we first started talking about microcheating. George W. Bush. You know, the president formerly known as the worst president of our lifetimes. If you were lucky to die in the fall of 2016, that statement is true. George W. Bush was the worst president of your lifetime. But if you lived and if you can hear the sound of my voice right now, we know today there was a worser president coming. I'm actually reluctant to call our current president, the worst president of our lifetimes. Because given what we've been through, that seems jingsy. We said that about George W. Bush and we were wrong. Things and presidents, as we've learned, can always get worse. Anyway, back to my main rant. We've been talking about this thing, microcheating. For decades, there's nothing new about the idea of microcheating. So calling it new is incorrect. Just as incorrect is calling it cheating. So you who wrote the story about microinfidelity is for the Atlantic as a student at Harvard without access to Google, it seems. And you struggles to define microinfidelity at the start of the piece before recycling a quote from a couple's therapists who defined it as basically anything a deeply insecure person might want it to be. A glance, a laugh, non-sexual touching that's too familiar or too intimate. To catch microcheaters, you write people often hunt online for indiscretions scrolling through the entire list of accounts, their partner follows or watching for a partner single like on another person's Instagram post. And this insanity, as you correctly notes, is enabled by social media. In the past, people's secret desires tended to remain hidden, you rights. You couldn't prove that your partner had gazed longingly after someone else or had left their hand for a beat too long on another person's shoulder. But now every like, every follow, every text is there on your partner's phone, the whole digital dossier. All right, I sometimes get self conscious about repeating myself, but I'm going to have to read this into the record again because I really do want people in monogamous relationships to be happy and I want to see their relationships succeed. Are you listening monogamous people? A monogamous commitment means your partner doesn't sleep with other people. It doesn't mean they don't want to. They do. And so do you. And if you go looking for evidence, your partner wants to sleep with other people, you will find it. I posted that to Twitter when I was feeling weak trying to post less to social media these days, generally and to Twitter in particular. And the monogamous people I was trying to help man, they were not having it said trash panda married 18 years and can honestly say I've never wanted to have sex with other people. Do I think other people are attractive? Of course I do that doesn't mean I want to sleep with them says Nigel, you might fantasize or imagine a scenario where you're with someone else, but it doesn't mean you want to act on it says generva. It's obvious he that would be me dance average. It's obviously he has never really been in love. People who are in love may notice other people are attractive. But they're not actually attracted to them, meaning they don't want to sleep with them because they only want the person they're in love with. All right, you guys trash Nigel generva. I was talking about noticing noticing other people are attractive generally means you're noticing people you might want to fuck if your circumstances were different. I will concede something to tim take a marriage therapist who writes everybody knows there are pretty people everywhere noticing attractive people does not necessarily equate to wanting to fuck them. All right, I have to concede that that's partly true. The first time I laid eyes on Zendaya in euphoria I was like holy shit, she is very attractive. But I did not want to fuck her the first time I laid eyes on Tom Holland, Mr Zendaya congrats to the newlyweds newlyweds who are exactly the same age. So a big win there for the age gap in cells the first time I laid eyes on Tom Holland, I thought he is very attractive and fucking him is the least of what I would do to Tom Holland if Tom Holland was gay and into me and the age gap wasn't so great, but he's not and he's not and it is. All right, back to our original rant monogamous people I'm trying to help you out so let me put this another way for the monogamous people out there who want to make a distinction between noticing attractive people and wanting to fuck them distinction that is usually without a difference but there is obviously the Zendaya exception as we will call it anyway monogamous people monogamous commitment means your partner doesn't act on their attractions to other people but they will still sometimes notice that other people are attractive. And so will you and if you go looking for evidence your partner is attracted to other people you will find it and if you are the jealous and insecure type and you can honestly say your relationship wouldn't survive finding evidence your partner sometimes attracted to other people or find other people attractive maybe the sake of your relationship don't go looking for that evidence. And then maybe your beautiful monogamous relationship will survive and one day you will be able to smugly tell someone who's been married to the same man for 31 years and with the same boyfriend for 13 years that he's never been in love and doesn't know what love is now not everyone disagreed with me so a big thank you to black fill up you tweeted in response dance savage is a dumb bitch but he's right this one time. I will take it no lie detected thank you black fill up all right coming up on today show everything is looking great for woman's new relationship except for one important thing the D is not doing it for her can she learn to love this D or will this new guy in his D have to go and speaking of bodies a woman with non porn standard labia wants people to appreciate the diversity of a gin is out there and on the Magnum there's more than one polymemor out this month Natalie. Davis author of saying yes my adventures in polyamory joins me to talk about her journey from pod poly under dress to happily poly to poly memoirist my conversation with Davis is on the Magnum version of the show subscribe to the Magnum you get to listen to the show add free and hear my interviews with all of our guests and more calls another perk of becoming a Magnum supporter of the show savage love live our next savage love live is April 8th noon Pacific time 3 p.m. Eastern and 9 p.m. in my remote European hideout chat with other Magnum subs in a zoom hangout and ask me questions I love answering questions live we will send all Magnum subs an email with a link to the show on the day of the show again April 8th noon Pacific 3 p.m. Eastern 9 p.m. Europe if you're not yet a Magnum sub you can become one now by going to savage dot love slash subscribe. Alright let's get to the first call this episode is brought to you by caratham and abortion and reproductive health care provider caratham offers both in person care in Atlanta Chicago and Washington DC and telehealth options for abortion pills by mail in 21 states caratham's team of licensed medical professionals provide personalized abortion care options focused on your needs your preferences and your values visit caratham dot org to learn more that's C.A.R.A. F.E.M. dot org this episode of the love cast is brought to you by the good folks at square space they make it easy to build a beautiful website blog or online store head on over to square space dot com slash savage for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use the offer code savage to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by VB health doctor formulated supplements that work to learn more about load boost drive boost and soaking wet and to get 10% off.
Visit bb.health and use the code savage. - Hey Dan, late 30sist woman here asking about penis size. I've been dating this guy for about three months. Everything's been going pretty good. You know, lifestyle aligns, values, conversations are great. He's very loving and caring and he's amazing. The sex isn't that great and we're actually on a break from sex right now just because it's hard for me to separate the emotional from the physical. And sometimes I feel like I get confused thinking that I really wanna be with somebody but actually just wanna fuck him. So the end goal is eventually be in a relationship and I just wanna make sure that the connection's actually there without getting confused with the physical. But I guess I just wanted to know because he has a smaller than average penis, not necessarily like a tiny dick, but I'm just not used to it. Strangely, I kinda find it harder to come with just clit stimulation. I actually need PIB and it has to be a dick. I can come with a dildo but it just doesn't feel the same. I like feeling humans out of me. And his penis is just, you know, sometimes it does the trick, sometimes it doesn't. I'm used to coming every time I have sex in that way. And I guess I was just wondering for people that are maybe with in relationships with somebody that has a smaller penis size. Do you get used to it? You know, sex is important obviously. It's not the number one thing for me, I guess in a relationship but it is important. He is very giving, you know, he listens, he follows instructions. It's just he's missing about an inch, you know? I don't wanna make him feel, I like, I've obviously never said anything about him having a smaller dick. I'm sure he knows he has a smaller dick. But I also feel kind of bad because I have a medical condition that doesn't allow me to lubricate. Like I just can't get wet. But so I feel like I can't really complain about penis size when like I don't really get wet. So maybe he's not like fulfilled in that way and he's not saying anything because he's being nice because he knows about my condition. I just don't wanna be a jerk. He's amazing. And I could see myself marrying this guy eventually. I just really need to know when people that have been in the situation, does it get any better? - I don't think you're on a break from sex with this guy because you really wanna fuck him and you don't wanna confuse a sexual connection and sexual intimacy for an emotional connection and an emotional intimacy. I think you're on a break from fucking this guy because you kind of don't wanna fuck him because the sex doesn't work for you because the dick doesn't work for you. You say sex is important. It is. And if you're gonna be in an exclusive relationship with someone, sexual compatibility needs to be prioritized, right there alongside emotional compatibility those conversations you've already had with him about lifestyle values. You're on the same page about so much but the dick isn't doing it for you. And since it's gotta be dick and it's gotta be human, it can't be a strap on, it can't be a dildo, it can't be a fist. It's never gonna work for you. Sex with him is never going to be satisfying. Okay, so how long are you gonna draw this out? The longer you draw it out, the likelier he is to figure out that it's his dick. That's the problem, his dick that is barely resistible. Is it on your own as a sex break right now? And when he figures that out and he probably, he knows he has a below average dick but when he figures it out that you are just into him as a person but so not into the sex and so not into his dick that you just are keeping him around to have more conversations about lifestyle values without fucking him and fucking him is the only way you're gonna figure out whether you can get to a place where the sex is satisfying and the sex works. He's gonna put two and two together and you are in danger of leaving him in worse shape than you found him. He's probably already a little insecure about the size of his dick. So I think you should break the fuck up with him and not say it's because your dick is small. It's just, I'm not feeling it. Well, he might read that as a comment about his dick. If you say I'm not feeling it, you can just say, I really like he was a person but I just don't think the connection is there between us sexually. And maybe that's mutual, maybe that's on both sides because you say that you're taking this break from sex because in the past you've kind of mixed up, we're gotten out over your skis when the sex is great and read into the sex being great and emotional connection that was not there. And you wanted to take the sex slow but you had enough of the sex to know already that it's not gonna work for you and the workarounds that I could give you, the workarounds at other men who have below average dicks who are with women who like that filled up feeling. Yeah, I can't give the suggestions to you. You've already ruled them out. It's gotta be dick. It's gotta be human. It's gotta be bigger. And you feel like when you have that kind of requirement, you do feel a little shallow like this is just something physical that a person can't control but your need for dick of a certain size is something physical that you can't control too. So it's a bit of a wash here. Break up with the nice guy. His dick will work just great for somebody else. There's a woman out there who would prefer a below average penis. There are women who prefer below average penises. Penises can be too big or there's a woman who'll be into his dick but also into toys and also into fisting and into direct clitoral stimulation, outer course, which you are not into. So there's just no way I think you can make this actual component of this relationship work. And if you wind up in a committed relationship with this guy because you like him so much, eventually it's gonna come to tears for both of you because the longer you go without feeling satisfied without climaxing during sex, the more catastrophic the crack up, the break up is inevitably going to be. And again, the greater the odds you will leave this guy in worship, then you found him and you don't wanna do that. So dump him. - Hey, Dan Nancy, in the Tix-Aviac Rescue, I'm calling with a quick question. I don't know how real this question should be or how real my concern is, but it's something I've been, my wife and I've been thinking about and talking about for a long time. So I'm hoping you can help. We have been trying to progress towards Anon. We're curious, we're interested. You can watch a heated rivalry. So we're in. However, we're trying to figure out what the buildup and process to get there comfortably would be. We're trying to progress cautiously, fingers, building to toys, so up. I think our big question is, how long should that buildup take? Is this something worth after a few days? Which is should be good to go? Weeks, months? Everything in straight couple needs to know about anal sex. They can of course learn watching heated rivalry. Now true, but there are a lot of good best practices, dramatized, in heated rivalry. They're having sex for a long time before they progress to anal sex. Just as you and your wife have been having sex for a long time as you slowly progress toward anal sex. The first time Ilya fucks the shit out of Shane, he eats his butt for presumably a good long time. Ilya when he penetrates Shane for the first time. Shane who has before Ilya came along been practicing solo with the dildo, which is straight out of the dance savage, how to get to anal advice playbook. Practice with toys alone, have orgasms using a toy, experiencing anal pleasure or having something in your butt without any expectation from the person attached to the thing that's in your butt because there's no person attached to the thing in your butt. And it's really just about you and your pleasure and have a few dozen orgasms that way to create a positive association between the feeling of penetration of being stretched, anal, a little bit, before you move on to a live human dick attached to a live Russian hockey player. Is a good idea, also good practice in heated rivalry. When Ilya penetrates Shane, he goes very slowly and encourages Shane to breathe and checks in with him about whether it feels all right, whether he's okay. And we see all of that before we see Ilya fucking pounding Shane into Shane's very expensive looking sofa in his apartment. You and your wife, you could borrow all those moves from Ilya and Shane. Additionally, toys, fingers, you need to approach that kind of anal stimulation and play as an end unto itself. These are not just training wheels to get you to butt fucking. These are ways of experiencing and exploring anal pleasure, independent of whether or not you ever get to butt fucking. If you guys can and I hope it's mutual, I hope you're putting toys in your butt too. I hope your asshole is in play too. If you are experiencing anal pleasure, a lot of lovely nerve endings, doesn't have to be penetrative at first. You can lay a vibrator, Okay.
cross a butthole, you can press it into the taint, into the, not in, don't penetrate, just pressure on the whole during mutual masturbation sessions. You put a butt plug in and fuck the wife and forget the butt plugs there and the minute you're coming, your anal sphincters will contract and that butt plug will move a bit against your prostate. That feels amazing. Have nights where butt stuff is going to happen, but not butt fucking. And then when you finally are ready, when your wife is like, put that dick in me, or you're like, put that big fucking strap on dildo in me, the point should not be the person doing the fucking is the person being pleasure. It's the person getting fucked who's the person hopefully being pleasure. They may need to get their teeth in baritite first, the moment of penetration, but if they're allowed to breathe and relax and then control the pace of penetration, allowed to ride, not be ridden and stimulate themselves during the process, the first time you fuck the wife, you should go in with the expectation that you're going to get your dick in her and maybe you're going to move back and forth just a little bit, you're going to thrust in and out just a little bit, but mostly it's going to be about her at that moment, relaxing breathing and using a vibrator on herself or her fingers on herself while you guys kiss and make out and it'd be really about her pleasure, same if she's going to fuck you with the strap on that first time. And if you do that advance work and create those positive associations, there's a lot of fear around the anal penetrations, a lot of shame, stigma, but if you do that advance work and you just carve a really deep groove where this is not about the person getting fucked, serving the person, fucking them, although that can be hot and that can be the point for some people, that can be how they want to be fucked eventually, but about the pleasure being received by the person being penetrated, you'll get to a point where you're just dying to fuck each other's butts, but it takes time, it takes time. And remember, in heated rivalry, it took years. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. They make it easy to build a website, blog, or online store and Squarespace offers a lot more than you might think. If you're serious about your business or creative project, you're going to need analytics. 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I was wondering how you can tell the difference between somebody who's cheating to stay married and stay sane and somebody who's cheating because they're a cheater and they're feeding you a pack of lies. I think I know which situation I'm in, but I was wondering if there's anything I could look out for to be more sure. How do you tell the difference between someone who's a cheating piece of shit and someone who's doing what they need to do in order to stay married and stay sane? You can't with any degree of absolute certainty or with absolute certainty, you can't. Someone who wants to cheat will tell the person that they hope to cheat with what they think that person wants to hear and I'm doing what I need to do in order to stay married and stay sane is more sympathetic and tell of whoa, more appealing potentially to an affair partner than hey, I'm just an asshole and I would like to fuck you now. And yeah, so if somebody's just, hey, I'm a cheating piece of shit, they're probably telling you the truth. If somebody's spinning a tail where they're in a relationship and they don't want to end it and their partner wouldn't want them to end it and it's sad for all involved, but cheating in this instance or at this time in their lives is the least worst option for all involved. That could be a lie. That is, if they're telling you that, there's a chance that's bullshit. They're telling you I'm just a cheating piece of shit, that's absolutely the truth, but the tale of whoa where I come more in sadness than an anger, I come in you on you near you, more in sadness than an anger, there's a good chance. A chance that cannot be eliminated or fully controlled for, especially if while they're telling you their tale of whoa, you want to fuck them. So you may be engaged in a little motivated reasoning. I get to you to what you want, which is the dick in those guys. You say you know what situation that you're in, but you don't share any of the details of vague posting. This is the vague calling, version of vague posting. Don't be vague. Give us the details when you call in with a question like this. But if you know in your God, which it is and you suspect it's cheating piece of shit, and you want to fuck him anyway, well, then you just have to know that you're kind of cheating piece of shit, a Jason, if not a cheating piece of shit yourself cheating piece of shit, a Jason, and then rolling your dice, move your eyes, have your fun and enjoy the dick. All right, let's talk about something that's often whispered about other places. We talk about it out loud here. That is libido. If you've ever looked for a supplement to give things a boost, you know it can feel like you're waiting through a minefield, right? So many options, so many questionable ingredients, so much truck stop by Agra out there. 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Let them know the love cast sent you by going to vb.health and using code savage again for 10% off. Hi Dan, so something that I hear about on your show is about the diversity of penises, the size and shape of them and appreciation for all, but I've not heard the topic of the diversity of volvas. Since I was an adolescent, I have felt so much shame over the years about the appearance of my labia menorah, which sticks out and beyond the outer lips or labia majora, which we all should have learned in school. Partners, especially when we were younger, commented and made fun of my poses appearance, ignorantly calling it a little penis and not going down on me. Born was their primary anatomical and sex education at that age, which typically displays poses with relatively neat tucked in labia menorah. Perhaps the standard for poses like this is rooted in misogyny and even homophobia because women should be tidy and not messy or display their arousal with swelling genitalia in the way that males do. On social media, I have heard all kinds of offensive terms like wizard sleeve and the dreaded beef curtains mocking labia that looked like mine. I felt so vulnerable and would dread revealing myself to new sexual partners until I occasionally met men who were enthusiastic about the way mine looked and felt and gradually with some self-work. I began to also see myself as desirable with my unique labia too. Labia Plasty, the cutting and reshaping of the labia menorah has become an increasingly common surgery to achieve that tucked in camel toe look. The probably became, in part, associated with the trendy wearing of yoga pants, combined with what is shown in conventional porn. Women can feel significant discomfort from having long interlabia and assassinating surgery, but I sense that the primary cause for this type of genital surgery is for aesthetic reasons. Just check out Reddit. As in other beauty realms, why do we have to meet a singular ideal to be considered a great lover, sensual, desirable, or even worthy? We have choices, even in the constraints of societal norms. Anyways, I want to give a shout out to women in other vulva havers out there who have outies like mine. Labia and clits come in different lengths, textures, colors, and can be asymmetrical.
You are healthy and sexy and deserve to have your as attended to. I also hope that sex education in schools can improve drastically to highlight the fact that there is a great genital diversity. Dicks come in all different shapes and sizes and so do pussies. While some women with protruding labia have gotten surgery, plastic surgery, labia, plastic for reasons of comfort, most people who got it, it's for reasons of. aesthetics, like you said, collar. And I think it would be better if people just accepted themselves and others were more accepting of the diversity of genitals than people were going under the knife to confirm to some ideal or pornified ideal of what a woman's genitals or a man's genitals should look like. There are men out there who've ruined their penises getting penis enhancement surgeries trying to up the size. When you got the dick, you got that's the dick you got and you got to work with the dick you got. And I think everyone should, especially everybody who sleeps with women, take the same approach to women's genitals. Come in all different shapes and sizes and it's all good. I don't think, however, sex education is ever going to save us. Can't compete with porn and we don't really have it in this country. It's not good. They're not going to, which they probably should, as a part of sex education, familiarize young and inexperienced people with the full diversity of human genitals, all the different shapes and sizes, either or both can come in. They can barely bring themselves to talk about pleasure and sex in sex education in this country. Not going to talk about, not going to celebrate, diverse genitalia. So each of us advocating for ourselves and leading by example, by not being ashamed of our genitals, but also celebrating the genitals of the people that we wind up in bed with, we're going to have to do the work because sex ed curricula is not going to ride to the rescue. And you did the work, Collar, my calling in and sharing your story and your perspective. And I'm really glad that you called. We're really glad to have that. Everything that you said here on the show today. This episode is brought to you by Cara Femme. It's okay to want an abortion. Did you know one in four people who can get pregnant will have one? So it's actually more common than most people think. At Cara Femme, you can choose what type of abortion Cara works best for you. They have in office locations with private entrances in Atlanta, Chicago, and the Washington DC areas. And they also offer medically supported abortion pills by mail in 21 states with sliding scale pricing from $0 to $399. It's their mission to make sure abortion is accessible to everyone who needs it or wants it. For some people, it's more comforting to come into a private office where they can visit with one of their medical providers and leave no longer pregnant or with abortion pills in hand. For others, they prefer to get abortion pills through the mail so they can decide the best time and place to complete the process. Getting abortion pills by mail from Cara Femme is simple. Fill out an online form and a license to provider will review your medical history. And if eligible, your medication will be shipped to you in a couple of days. Cara, their text-based abortion companion will guide you through the process from start to finish with instructions, reminders, and answers to all your questions whenever they come up 24/7. With either choice, know that Cara Femme will support you every step of the way. Learn more at CaraFemme.org. Hi, Dan. I'm looking for advice around a dating dynamic. I am seeing a couple and specifically the man has been coming over for some casual sex. They live together a man and a woman and they're in a serious relationship. She's obviously aware that we are friends with benefits. And I want to create a fun and flirty dynamic before he comes over, but I'm trying to determine what's the appropriate boundary here. We've obviously discussed the three of us, what's on the table in relation to sex. Everything is on the table there. But in terms of sex, we didn't discuss that. And I'm not sure if we should have. The last thing I want is for her to see a text from me to him that is pushing the boundary. I'm friends with her. But at the same time, I think it'd be really fun to tease him a little bit before he gets here. So what are your thoughts on this? What's appropriate? What might cross the line a little bit and how to navigate that since they live together? You could ask. You've had these long and volatile, very detailed conversations about fucking and when you're allowed to fuck and how that might impact their relationship. And you've been very sensitive and solicitous of their opinions and consider their feelings. So yeah, you could just fucking ask whether sex thing is allowed. You could ask in a text message whether sex thing is allowed. You know, some people in open relationships texts from other people that you're fucking are allowed are even kind of sexy. Like knowing your partner as somebody else is really dying for your partner's dick can make partners dick that much more alluring to you can remind you that your partner's dick is great and get you back up on top of your partner's dick or it can be interpreted as that third person not respecting a boundary. When he's with her, he's with her. And if you're blowing up his phone the whole time, he's with her. You're intruding on their their time, their together time. Or one on one time. And so yeah, you need to ask them only they know the answer to this mysterious question. Only they can pick this log. How much are you allowed to text before you guys are going to get together to crank him up or should you sit on your thumbs? And even if you do get the green light to text, keep it to a minimum, a few texts. Blow up the phone, even if texts are welcome sitting next to your partner on the couch on your date night watching dozens of text messages come in from their side piece or their secondary or their very special guest star or your very special guest star, if you share. Even if texts are allowed, even if texts are usually sexy, too much of a good thing can be too much of that good thing. So show a little restraint if you are allowed to text, but you're going to have to ask them or him whether you're allowed to text. I couldn't tell you. Hey, Dan, 38-year-old gay male here in an open marriage, fun, probably for the first time. Back in December, I told my husband that this one guy who is in a poly relationship that we've been hanging out with just drinks and card games and stuff like that that had a crush on this guy. My husband was extremely supportive and told me to go for it. So I spent the next two or three weeks reading books, finding forums, listening to podcasts, all about the poly lifestyle, all how to approach it. Me and my husband, we talked about our rules, our boundaries, and we established a firm in a foundation where I felt confident enough to ask this guy on the date. So I did in mid to late January. His response was that he loved the idea of it, but that he's working through some past dating things right now and that he wanted to meet up and talk about what he is with all that stuff. And so we did. We met up, we had drinks, talks about three and a half hours, and I really got a clear picture of where he is. I left that relationship feeling like he really is open to having a relationship in the future. But right now he needs a really good friend and I am a firm believer that all good relationships start from good friendships as well. They have a good friendship as a base. So I'm totally down to explore this with him and be patient and work through it with him. We text all the time. We're actually meeting up for drinks this week and we are trying to be active in each other's life. The question for you, Dan, is how do I bring up if he's ready to pursue a relationship in the future? My fear is that I'll get friendzoned and the thing I want will be ignored and just hopped under the rug. And one thing the books do not say is like, how do you follow up when you're trying to pursue someone in a polyrelationship? I've always been really bad about just staying in the friend zone and it feels like it feels easier to do so when I have a partner and he has partners to just slide into that role. But I really would like to pursue a relationship with him and I want to know your advice on how I check in to see if he is ready for that possibility. Your interrelationship, he's in relationships. You took him out. You told him you were interested potentially being his third or fourth partner and he told you. And through some past dating things right now, which to me, and I don't want to be cruel, I don't want to be mean. I don't want to write on your parade. To me, sounds like it's not you. It's me. I'm just getting out of another relationship. I'm too busy. It just sounds like one of those little white face-saving, egosparing lies that people tell other people who have expressed interest in them that isn't mutual, that isn't reciprocated. So the question you need to ask yourself is how much time are you willing to invest in a relationship where you probably already have been friend zone? Well, I'm not sure.
in his court. You did the right thing. I mean, you did a lot of legwork in advance of asking this guy how you did a lot of homework. I think perhaps unnecessarily, but you did the right thing and you told him why it was you wanted to go out your drinks with him that you're interested in him sexually and perhaps having a relationship with him dating him. And he said, no, not right now, maybe later, which is rarely true. I'm sorry, when people say, oh, I'm not in a great place right now, but maybe later, they're just trying to be kind. And it's our responsibility when we hear something like that to read the rejection into it that was elided or left out of it to spare our feelings and to just assume it to know. And so balls in his court, if he works through these past dating things, and he's interested in you and always was interested in you, he'll tell you now, now, fuck me now or date me now, date me now, he'll say something because he knows you're interested. And right now, you're making yourself available to him not for all touristic reasons entirely, but because you want him to still be considering you as a potential future romantic partner. And you need to ask yourself, how much time and emotional energy should you invest in this guy? If ultimately the feelings aren't returned, I don't think you should make an enormous investment of time. You say you're texting every day, you're talking to him a lot. Are you becoming an emotional support animal when what you want to be is a friend and a fuck buddy and a boyfriend? And if you are available to him 24/7 for emotional support or friendship, is that consuming time and energy that you could be plowing into finding a different guy or dating some other guys if it did you're interested in pursuing another relationship with another guy and addition to the guy that you're already with? I think what you do in an instance like this, and I have been there, I've been right where you are right now, is just assume you've been friend-zoned already. And then if he comes back to you in three months and says I would like to suck your dick now, you can be pleasantly surprised that you weren't friend-zoned. And a pleasant surprise is always more fun than pining away. Hey Dan, I'm a bio curious guy in my late 30s and I'm just curious if it's possible to come too much. I am head over heels in love with my partner of about six months and she and I connect a few times a month to have the most incredible sex I've ever had because I'm out of town for work a lot. When I come home, our sexual energy is charged and ready and we fly out of the gate often both coming multiple times in a night, sometimes three or four times in 24 hours. I'm just wondering if there are any concerns or considerations I should have with that. And if that's just too much come from my body to be producing in a healthy way in a day or maybe I'm just over thinking it but and I should just go with the flow. Oh, Dan, I come too much. There's humble bragging and there's humble bragging. And this is of course a humble bragging. It's great that you come through four times. You are not going to injure yourself. It's not like you're going to have a fifth orgasm and one of your kidneys is going to fall out your deck. If you can come again, it is safe and fine for you as a multi orgasmic sort of kind of. I'm sure there's a refractory period in there but as a multi orgasmic kind of sort of in a single extended session with your lover come three times. Yeah, absolutely. This would be at the top of the list if I was going to sit down and make a list of problems that are not problems. You are fine. All right time for the listener feedback section of the show. First up a few comments. Listeners left in the comment thread about last week's show says Delta 35 loved Dr. Brindle. I'd add about kinks that are ancestors were probably much more vanilla because the current built environment is immensely more complex than in our evolutionary prehistory. There are many more types of stimuli today to get fixated on. It's hard to have a latex fetish or a centaur fetish or riding crop kink when nothing around you is more elaborate than a loin cloth. Good point Delta 35. I'm that same subject. My conversation with evolutionary biologist Dr. Brindle last week about kinks and the sex appeal of Neanderthals and other things inspired another evolutionary biologist J.R. to jump into the comment thread. J.R. shared some fascinating additional details and analysis. Not every trait is adaptive as J.R. reminds us and not every trait is even a trait J.R. is post as a fascinating read way too long to share here. And if you enjoyed my conversation with Dr. Brindle you will definitely enjoy reading J.R.'s comment under last week's show says Candace for the caller whose wife is suddenly not into kissing. I think you owe it to her and your marriage to get more curious about what's going on. How is your wife? Is she stressed? Is she depressed? Is she exhausted from having two young kids? If so, are there things that can be done to help? How is your relationship? Are you getting time to hang out? Talk. Go on dates. Do you still enjoy being together? If not, a marriage counselor would be a good first step. And finally, for the love of God, how is your breath? Great points Candace. Of course, Candace here raises the question of what the caller might be doing wrong and it's possible he's doing absolutely everything wrong. But surely his wife did something wrong too. If the issue is something that the caller could fix, surely his wife should have said that and not I'm never kissing you again ever. And finally, why so many memoirs by women and so few by men, memoirs about polyamory and literally everything else? It's not just that women are likely to write them and much likely to read them these days. Nope says nosy listener. Women's memoirs are objectively better. Women are expected to open a vein in a way men just aren't willing to. Cormac McCarthy, Constring together shit metaphors about roads and masculinity and have a best seller without revealing anything. Jessica Simpson, she gave us everything. All right, got something you want to say about something I said on this week's show. Go to Savage.Love and say it in the comment thread. And now Savage Love listeners who left voicemails on our answering machine about last week's show, they get to have the last word on this week's show. Hi, this is a comment to the multi orgasmic woman from episode 1010. You are not alone. There are many of us out there and to Dan was wondering how she could keep count. No, we don't get a clicker. And for me anyway, how it works is the orgasms come in waves. So you start your feeling aroused, get excited, then you have your first orgasm. And then it's like this big wave where it keeps cresting. So you have the next one and the next one and the next one until you kind of get to a point where it's like, okay, I need a break and you stop. And you get to know yourself and know that your waves may be like 10, 15, 20 orgasms each. So if you have three, maybe four of these waves in a session with a lover, well, multiply by your average number of orgasms per wave. And there you go. You get your 60 to 70 or whatever it is. This is the silliest of little clibble. But I wanted to address Dan your description of Beauty and the Beast, which is clearly based on how you've seen the Disney movie, which I will agree is probably the only way most people have seen with that story. But actually Beauty and the Beast is an original fairy tale of the pope. An old orally handed down folktale that got written down later was written in the 17th century by an actual woman. And in the original story, which is quite long, the Beast has perfect manners. And there is no, I mean, there is an enchanted, but there's no stupid thing that rose and tuddled and all that nonsense. And Beauty falls in love with the Beast not because she changed and ended the nice guy, but because he is a nice guy. And she learns that the outward appearance is less important than his manners than he very polite. In fact, it could be argued that this is a story that that means sexuality. If you're only a decent appearance, not in behavior and manners. And the whole point is that women want to be treated well. Hi, Dan. I'm here to add to the polyamory discourse from last week. I do agree that the next memoir does need to be written by someone with a different point of view. I truly do. But that point of view, it needs to be someone who chooses polyamory. I truly believe that opening up a monogamous marriage is incredibly difficult. And that's why I never fucking did that. I chose as a single person to choose polyamory intentionally. And that's why all my long term relationships last. It was never a discussion. Well, I mean, there's many discussions. It's an endless board meeting. But everyone who dates me knows out the gate that I am polyamorous. It's never a question of opening up. And I'm really sick about straight married people being the ones that are dominating this conversation when it's not even theirs in the first place. like let's let's be so real.
But like we love you straight married people go off keep writing your annoying books, I guess And we are going to leave it there got a sex problem got a relationship question go to savage.love/askstand Record and upload your question directly on our website or you can record a voice memo and email it to us at
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