SATHI - Affiliate marketing is broken, Yash Chavan built the fix

How do you quantify when literally for some of our brands, our 100 influencers post about them every week. If 100 people post about you, naturally, there's going to be so much of awareness in the market that your Google ads are going to perform better. Your Facebook ads are going to get clicked on more. Your organic search traffic is going to increase, but none of this impact is quantified because you're tracking influencers using last click attribution, which is ancient, like it was invented in the 80s. So we're treating a very modern channel that has a lot of potential using a performance lens from, frankly, the 1980s. Right, and that doesn't work. And that's the problem we saw. That's what we seek to solve with Sati, which has a bunch of functionality that combats this problem. But that's the story. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] and you're right, like I think when we first spoke, it was just me and an outsourced contracted deaf team to build the initial version of the product. So, yeah. Definitely can have come a long way from that three years ago. Yeah, I love. And I noticed also that in the last year, so although I know I think I saw a post that where the war has just caused some travel destruction for you, but I mean, I love to see you at Shop Talk and all the other places in the last few years. So, that's great. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see because I think you were in San Diego and I couldn't drive down. It was like a two hour drive for me or something like that, two or three hours. So, we couldn't see each other. But again, that's just one of the things that I've seen you grow and that you've been out there and the trade shows and events and so forth. So, that's pretty cool. Yeah. So, okay. So, let's get down to business here because I know you have this big announcement and I kind of want to back into it a little bit because I want to give some context around it. So, one of the problems, one of the problems, well, maybe we should back up for a second. If you want to just talk a little bit about for those who may not know what Serala is, mention what high level of what Serala is. And then let's talk about the problem because one of the problems you've seen or one of the challenges you've seen with brands out there is around affiliate marketing. And so, you've decided to do something about that challenge that you've seen a lot of brands have. So, let's start off first high level Serala and then let's talk about the challenge and the issue that you've seen brands struggle with around affiliate marketing. Yeah. Totally. So, Serala for those who don't know of you are an influencer marketing platform. So, if you need influencers promoting your brand, Serala is one of the simplest platforms that you can join and then get influencers posting about you, driving affiliate sales for you, creating UGC or ads for you, all of that. So, Serala is like a one-stop shop for all your influencer marketing related needs as a brand. So, that's what Serala is. And then we'll talk about it, but then we're launching a sister affiliate marketing product and then we've, there's an entire deep, long reason why we started that product and why we want to serve brands that way along with Serala. And I can talk about that, but then that's what Serala is. Serala is an influencer platform. If you need influencers promoting your brand on UGC or if you want to work with influencers, So, I'm going to make sure that we link in the podcast description. Our first couple of episodes and where we go through your backstory in the first one, and we talk about, you know, you building Cirol, and the second one, we talk more deeper about the insights and the lessons you've learned around influencer marketing. But I'm really, you know, today I really want to talk about this new endeavor that you have. I'm going to talk about the new idea of the marketing. You know, today I really want to talk about this new endeavor that you have. But as I mentioned earlier, let's start first with, what was the challenge that you saw brands struggle with around affiliate marketing? Yeah. So, I may be backtracked from affiliate marketing a little bit and just talk about what we saw at Cirol, or what we, like, even frankly, still see with Cirol. So, we've worked with, at this point, at least 500 brands on Cirol, and generated, I mean, I have the numbers about, right, at this point, 59 to 60 million dollars in revenue for all of them combined. With that enormous data, what we saw was every brand that was successful, or was like trying to be successful, faced the exact same problems with influencer marketing, was that everyone now wants influencers as affiliates. And it makes sense because affiliate marketing is like this dream channel, right? It's performance-based, you only pay when you make sales yourself. It's like you can keep it as small or make it as big as you want. Plus, you have these influencers who already have an audience, so you can tap into their audience. It only makes sense to get exposure on a paper conversion basis. But what we saw were the same problems, like if you run, even if your program does work, you're very likely under-attributing the success of your program, because here's what happens, right? Let's say five influencers post about your brand. If you're using affiliate links and discount codes to track, what happens is the consumer, which is your customers, and they're going to use one person's link or discount code to buy. That guy gets all of the credit for the sale, and he or she makes commission. But the other four people who posted, who introduced someone to the brand, who nurtured them, who maybe like DM them back and forth and educated about the product. Nobody gets credit except the last person who drove the last click or used like give the discount code out, right? That was a massive problem. So what that did is it left those other four influencers not compensated and not incentivized for their work, which means they eventually dropped off, which means at scale, this led to influencer programs not succeeding. So there was this like misattribution, under-attribution problem. And then on the flip side, there was this like, we're over-attribution problem, where even if you are successful, once your program gets to a certain scale, your discount codes start leaking or honey.com gets hold of your affiliates, and it starts injecting its own codes. You have a lot of frauds. You have these like scammy affiliates joining your programs, and then doing self-refraffable orders or driving paid traffic and getting like try to hack the system in some way to take your money. So it was almost as if the system is designed right now to under-attribute the people who are actually performing and give fraudulent commission to the people who are not performing. So these were sort of like the two broad themes that we saw. Obviously this means that brands are then consistently going out recruting new influencer affiliates to join their programs because the ones that are performing don't get incentivized. So they leave a case, stop posting or stop mentioning the brand, and then you're stuck on this recruitment treadmill of consistently finding new people to get on your program or you're stuck like with follow ups, like you're forcing people to post or coming up with new hacky ways to post. But really the fundamental problem was there was a truth problem. It was either under-attributing sales or over to the right people or over compensating the bad people. So that's what we saw and we saw this over and over again across brands. We have even data to say that roughly about 70% of the impact of your influencer affiliate program is not showing up on the program. It's not showing up on your affiliate dashboard. And that's because how do you quantify when literally for some of our brands are 100 influencers, post about them every week. If 100 people post about you, naturally there's going to be so much of awareness in the market that your Google ads are going to perform better. Your organic search traffic is going to increase. But none of this impact is quantified because you're tracking influencers using last click attribution, which is ancient, like it was invented in the 80s. So we're treating a very modern channel that has a lot of potential using a performance lens from frankly the 90s. That's what we seek to solve with Sathi, which has a bunch of functionality that combats this problem. That's the. Well, I mean, in each one of those problems that you mentioned are huge. I mean, brands are having a lot of issues with. I mean, any one of those, if you were able to solve it, I think it feels like it would be a huge win for a brand because they're really big, right? I mean, we already know attribution has been a problem in not just in this area, but in other areas, especially with the cookie issues that they've had in the last few years and so forth. But it's interesting. One more thing I want to mention, because you said it yourself, cookie issues, we don't know what's going to happen with cookies, right? Some browsers, block cookies already, if you use Brave or one of these other privacy-focused browsers, I use Brave and cookies are disabled by default, right? You don't know if Google consistently keeps saying that they're going to stop using cookies, or third-party cookies on Chrome, right? And affiliate tracking basically works on cookies, right? So if you're creating an affiliate program, and if in six months Google decides to just ban cookies permanently, all affiliate tracking breaks. So one of the things that we've done, and it's like frankly a breakthrough, is we've figured out a way to do cookie-less affiliate tracking. So our affiliate tracking does not rely on cookies at all. So tomorrow someone, one of these big tech giants, decides to ban cookies, or even currently, if somebody's clicking on an affiliate link on a Safari or a Brave browser, or if somebody has an ad blocker enabled, Sathi is a affiliate tracking. We'll still track them in a fully compliant way. So fully cookie proof. Well, and we'll get to that. That sounds like an exciting feature. But I mean, any one of these issues, I think, if you were able to solve it for a brand, it would be huge. You mentioned there were equipment treadmill, and I don't even know. Sometimes people have problems, and they don't really think of them as problems. They think of them as, like, this is just the way it is, right? This is just how the process works, or this is just like we're stuck with. And then you kind of just, people just kind of learn to live with it, and so forth. But that's also one of the frustrations, is like constantly having to recruit people, constantly having to do that. And the way you described it a second ago, I thought it was just really, really a great description, because I think a lot of people don't really think about, think about it strategically that way. They're thinking like, okay, I sign up some affiliates, and these guys are performing, and these other people are dropping off, and they're not, we don't know, they, like, it's not performing, but they're dropping off. But in reality, there's more to that dropping off. There's more to that, you know, not being compensated for their work. There's more to that. And so instead of trying to look into this, just so overwhelming for a lot of brands, they just say, oh, what the heck, we just recruit more, we just have recruit more. So, like, they're stuck not being able to solve the problem, and having this issue and being frustrated, but at the same time, though, they just continue doing what they're doing. So I think it's really interesting how you've broken down the problem, or the problems you've broken it down, and then you started addressing those, like the cookie one. So let's talk a little bit about, so right now you've mentioned a couple things. You talked about under-attribution, you talk about how brands are over-compensating, potentially fraud or bad actors, who don't really have the brand that's interest as hard. You're talking about last-click attribution, which is an old way of looking at this and measuring this. And then of course you talk about the potential for a calculus world. So there's a lot to unpack there, but let's start off with how, let's talk about the, well, let me take a step back here. So it sounds like these are the issues that had you and your team thinking, okay, we need to figure this out. And why build a whole new platform for it? Yes, all of this functionality directly plugs into SIRL. So brands who are on SIRL, already have access to all of this technology. But what we realize also working with so many brands is often brands don't want all of the peripherals that comes with SIRAL. So for instance, if you don't want to aggressively seed or gift new creators or if you don't necessarily need a CRM, if you don't necessarily need social listening, all you need is a simple, profitable affiliate program, then you need an affiliate app. You don't need an influencer platform. For instance, if you just want to lose some weight, you don't necessarily need to get an entire gym subscription. You can just buy a bicycle or a treadmill and then just use that. So it's different goals. So they warrant different products. Well, yes, if you do sign up for the gym, you can still ride the bike or the treadmill inside the gym with an entire suite of different other tools. But if you just need the bike, you can buy the bike. So we're releasing a sister app because it's an important channel that is tangential to influencer marketing. You don't have to work with influencers as affiliates or you don't have to have like a ad skier. SIRAL is really good for brands who want to do high volume seeding and build like an ambassador to program. Do some of those traditional influencer deals, whether paying them their white distinct content on ads, all of that. But before you get to that stage, maybe you just want to simply test it with enough affiliate program and see how it does. Maybe you don't have enough resources. Maybe you're just getting started and all you need is some profitable sales through your affiliate network and then you can get Sathi for it. So that's why I separate app. Yeah. Well, and that's a great answer. So you've looked at all these problems and these issues that brands were having. You've decided to build Sathi for the reasons why you just mentioned a second ago. So now walk us through what Sathi does and how does it how does it solve these potential problems. And by the way, so Sathi just so everyone knows it is spelled S-A-T-H-I. The website is mySathi.io. So my, the, you know, M-Y, in the word Sathi, S-A-T-H-I dot I-O, my Sathi. What does that mean? Remember what we've created. Great question. Just for context, Sarel is the Sanskrit word for simple, right? So it's like, hey, it's, like I said, it's the simplest answer platform, not complicated. You don't need experience to use it. So you're like, what can we name? So that's our ethos. That's our, so we're like, what can we name an affiliate platform? Well, the word for affiliate or long term partner or companion in Sanskrit is Sathi. It basically literally translates into companion. So the meaning is almost twofold. One like yes, Sathi, the platform itself is your own companion in your affiliate marketing journey. And two, we want to frame your affiliates as long term companions or partners in your program and not just because the word affiliate tends to be a little bit eke and transactional. We wanted to be relationship-focus. So that's also, you almost have your own Sathi's, so to speak, inside of your app. So that's, that's what the name means. That means companion. Yeah, I love it. It's a beautiful word. Okay, so let's go through the different feature. Well, and let's do it from the way you described it, right? The problems. How does it, let's go through each one of these problems. So let's, let's go if you don't mind through the problems that it solves and then what the features are that solve for it. Yeah. So the floor, I mentioned two broad problems, right? Charity with respect to attribution. You can have five people post about you, but one person who drove the last click or gave the discount code gets the credit. We solve for that. We've again, this is the world's first, literally. I know people say that, but this is quite, I've never seen anybody do this. It has cookie las I'll get to. It also has multi-touch attribution, which means if somebody clicks on three links before they buy using a fourth discount code, he will show you data for all. So multiple affiliates are performing and guiding somebody nurturing someone towards a sale. At the tracks that versus literally every single other platform, big or small in the market only tracks the last click, which is like I said, pretty, pretty ancient way to track, because very naturally, you're going to work with dozens of affiliates. Some of them are going to introduce someone to your brand, right? Some of them are going to nurture through their post, through their educational content, and then one fine day, one person's content is going to show up at the right place, right time, and the person's going to click on their link or use their discount code and buy. Everyone else ignores everything I just said and only gives credit to the last person. Zasi will give credit to everyone. We'll see the data for it. That's one very important way in which we drive the Unity. Second, yeah, go on. I'm sorry. Having the ability to see multi-touch, multi-click or multi-touch journey, I think it's huge. I'm just brainstorming here. So you can correct me for wrong. So if I am an affiliate manager, if I'm at a brand and how this helps me is, again, I'm just assuming here. So correct me. If I see now that I have this data from Sathi that I can see more of the journey that an affiliate is conducting, they're nurturing. I'm seeing this journey. I'm seeing multiple clicks and multiple so forth. So now I see that affiliate is doing a lot of work to bring us business and to introduce and build awareness of our brand. So now I have the ability to maybe start counter-garizing my affiliates and say, okay, they're doing this. They're bringing a lot of awareness. It just gives me a lot more data to make decisions instead of saying, this is the last click and that's all that matters. Now I can see where the challenges may lie or I can see who's doing a lot of work and building the brand awareness. Maybe they're not doing the last click, but I can see where they're going and I can put together maybe a sub-program to help them or encourage them or I can maybe compensate them some amount of money for the work they're doing, but not maybe the full amount. I mean, it's kind of endless. I mean, it's just up to you and it's customizable. I'm sure, but now this data gives me a lot more ability to strategize around my affiliate program. Is that correct? You nailed it right on the head, Ramon. That's it's like giving you the clarity so you can make the best decisions. For instance, if 10 affiliate on average drive approaches and we all know this is a marketing fact, it takes at least 7 to 15 touches, at least 7 touches for some you to convert someone from not knowing your brand to becoming a customer. So if even 5 or 7 or 10 affiliates are contributing towards a sale, you want to know who those people are. Currently, your dashboard is only showing you the last person. Sathi will show you everyone. So you can then make the right decisions on who to work with, which affiliates do we scale because what happens right now is everybody sees the last click person or the people who drive the last clicks or the discount codes and then they're like, hey, everyone else is useless like they're not doing anything, right? But now I can see like, hey, these people are actually nurturing the same customer into buying. Right. So you can make better strategic decisions. And like you said, you can choose to compensate them. So Sathi has one of these things called every affiliate program is CPA based of which we cost for acquisition. You pay someone when you acquire a customer, why can't there be a cost or click affiliate program because you do pay other channels, cost per click, you pay your Google ads, cost per click, why can't you pay your affiliates, cost per click. If someone's driving a lot of clicks because they're naturally tending to drive a lot of top of funnel awareness for you and not conversions, you can maybe pay a 20% commission on the sale. But maybe you could pay $2 for a click, right? I don't know, based on your Google ads, for instance. So that's one of the ways you can a new innovative way you can compensate affiliates with Sathi. So it opens your program up for a lot of this new innovative ways of not just tracking, but also measuring your program level success and then compensating your affiliates accordingly. Yeah. And I can see that many brands potentially and probably do miss out on really great partnerships because they don't have that data. They see like, "Oh, this person's not doing anything so they're useless or whatever or they're not helping or whatever." But in reality, there's probably a lot of affiliates that they just let go of because they think they're not performing, but in reality, they may be doing a lot more than they think they are and they can be valuable for the company. Correct. Yeah, so, okay. Okay, so I'm sorry I interrupted you on that one. And then, by the way, that feature I would imagine also helps with the potential fraud or enough fraud, or I guess it could be fraud, but for bad actors who don't have the best intentions and are doing that. Does that also lead into that as well? Imagine 100 influencers constantly talking about your brand. Sounds great, right? but getting there seems hard. Not with SIRAL. SIRAL is the all-in-one influencer platform that finds brand-ed-line creators, automates outreach, and manages everything in one place. Plus, it has a built-in, affiliate tracking, and social listening, so you'll save on multiple tool subscriptions. You also avoid hefty agency fees and hours of manual searching. Plus, SIRAL's customer happiness team will support you every step of the way. Try at risk-free with an extended 14-day trial exclusively for the story of a brand podcast listeners. Visit storybrandoffer.com to start today and now to the interview. Yeah, yeah, there is a fraud engine that I'll talk about, but the second thing about attribution charity that I want to dive into is the cookie-less nature. We spoke about it, but this is completely agnostic of cookies, which means of some, I mean, it is foolproof whenever Google decides to say ban cookies or whatever, but even now, a lot of affiliate clicks happen on Safari, which default doesn't track cookies. Happen on Brave does not track cookies. Most people have ad blockers enabled, does not track cookies. So your affiliates are literally working for clicks and for sales that you're unable to track. That is now solved because Sathy does not use cookies. It's completely cookie-less. So that's another way in which we actually help you see what's happening with your affiliate program because other platforms or other ways of measurement don't. And then that leads me to the second point, which is the fraud handling. There is a lot of fraud in affiliate marketing still. Then all, I mean, Sathy does the basics, right? So for instance, one of the most common ways of fraud is affiliate scammy affiliate signs up for your program, places an order himself or herself, and then not only do they get a discount, they also get a commission for an order which they place, right? That's called a self-referral. You want to block that, obviously. So a lot of apps block that, but then most don't go beyond. So we have an AI we built and trained an AI to detect fraud that works directly with Shopify's fraud detection engine and has its own lag. So for instance, it'll look at things like geo location data for the traffic. So for instance, if 90% of an affiliate's traffic is coming from a location where you don't typically get sales from on your Shopify website, it'll flag that's a for instance, if like most of your sales are from North American region, but then suddenly you start getting sales from issues, start getting clicks from Asia, for instance, right? Maybe that's a click farm, right? Sathy will flag that. If an affiliate certainly starts performing really well, maybe their code has leaked. Sathy will flag that if there is a code injection on the check out page, Sathy will flag that. So it has a lot of these very interesting unique, especially with AI now, ways of detecting and preventing fraud that it just does on its own. So you don't have to go as an affiliate manager, what that means is you don't have to go scouring Google or sign up for like a separate code leakage detector tool. Sathy will just do that for you. It'll flag and then all it takes is one click to the deck commission or maybe like sometimes it is actually, sometimes maybe you are actually doing a promotion in Asia and that's what you want. And then you can just say that this is not fraud. So Sathy flags everything for you. So you can sit back relax. You don't have to go scouring for leak codes or suspicious orders on anything. So yeah. Well, I mean, I love that tool or that feature. And then regarding the leak, the leakage is that how you is that how you would combat the leakage, you know, like if someone, I don't know, it gets onto honey or one of the other discount or code platforms. Yes, that's that's that's already handled. So we are consistently listening for if any of the codes on Sathy are detected anywhere else on the web, except for obviously if they're on Instagram or TikTok, that's fine because the influencers are promoting it there. But if they're on honey.com or one of these coupon websites, Sathy automatically flags that it runs or check every six hours, something leaked, it'll flag and with just one click, you can delete the code and recreate a code for that affiliate. Or if you think that that affiliate is like scamming themselves, you can delete or ban them from your program. Well, well, I mean, this is this is such a useful tool. And the whole cookie list component of it, I think, you know, what do they call it forward thinking? Because we don't know when, I mean, like you said, there's already browsers that do this already, but we don't know when like Google's going to fully participate if they participate. What will happen? And this I think kind of gives people a little bit of peace of mind, you know, to be able to to feel like, okay, that you guys have have this part of it covered. And so now we just have to, now we don't have to worry about investing in this platform or investing our time and energy in this platform. And then having to move to something else or have it to be, you know, not working later at some future day when cookies no longer available on Google or whatnot. So this is pretty cool. What what else about the platform did you want to talk about? Yeah, these are the two major things. The other thing that really saw with Sural was pretty much all the affiliate platforms were not, well, some of them say they're creator focused, but they're not really creator focused. Everything about the, because there are actually two sides to an affiliate program. There's a brand side and there's a affiliate side, right? And pretty much all of these dashboards look like they were built like 2012 or something like that. Really ancient, very chunky, not up to the standard of what a modern app should look like and what real people are used to using it. Every single app on your phone is like, has to be the most simple, most efficient. You can do everything in two simple click. There's like big buttons with bold colors that you can click on and get what you want. Every single app is that way. Except when you log into the affiliate portal or off one of these affiliate apps and it's like a really ancient web 2.0 looking experience. So we've just revamped that entire thing, super mobile friendly and importantly, it focuses everything in Sathi, focuses on again, staying true to the name, making your affiliates companions and not affiliate affiliates. So what that means is it has this interesting ways of running challenges. So hey, if you make, you know, five posts in the first 30 days of joining the program, you get a bonus or if you drive at least $300 in sales every month, you get a free product every month. So there is a bunch of these features, it'll automatically flag on the other side. It'll automatically flag for you if somebody is not performing. So you can do one click as an AI that'll write a follow-up email for that person, you hit send and then they'll remind it to post about your brand or to drive sales. Or you can choose to remove them or forge them from your program. So one of our things is a really good, you want a hundred affiliates who post about you every single day than a thousand affiliates who just like sometimes post about you. So every single, everyone talks about like nowadays scale and how you need to be recruiting and getting these affiliates and how like this big DTC darling brand on Twitter has like 15,000 affiliates in their program. But then what they don't tell you is that only like really 300 of them really perform because it's pretty much always a 80 20 with affiliate programs. So we were like, why not just focus on the 20 that do all of the work and then ignore the rest. So we've built these minor features that incentivize that 20% to work even harder for you and make it easy for you to forge the low performers from your program. So you're going to not, you're actually not going to build a large program with Sathy, you're going to build a small but lethal really effective program that actually drives the revenue and scale and sales without being hard to maintain because you're not dealing with a lot of noise with a big affiliate program. So yeah, that's another thing. Yeah, and you mentioned like, you know, people can get on the recruitment thing. And the only reason why you do the recruitment thing, at least not the only but probably a big reason is you don't have the strategic data to look at whose performing who's not really performing not just the last click but who's actually going out there and then nurturing and building and trying to build an audience or trying to nurture an audience for you. So having this Sathy gives you all of that really strategic data, that knowledge, the ability to make better decisions. I am curious one thing, you know, obviously I do with a lot of brands and so forth. Is this how difficult is this and why aren't all brands doing affiliate marketing? Like is it is a very challenging? Is it a challenging channel? Because it just feels to me sometimes like I don't want to like bug brands to know that much about it. But sometimes I wonder like, is it so difficult or is this whole process so difficult to spin up like a affiliate link and have affiliates and encourage people and ambassadors and you know, things like that? Yeah. Is it so difficult for them to do it that they they they stop doing it or is it because just you know they've got a million other things to do and so forth? I don't know because I just there's one person I know on LinkedIn. and that is always promoting products. And I always think she should really be an affiliate. And then brands and I think like, hey, I would post about your brand more because I really believe in it. And if you have an affiliate link, that's actually even more beneficial to me. But I would do it anyways. Like, Callocurb, for instance, I lost 18 pounds on Callocurb. It's like an organic plant based version of like, ozempic, right? Yeah, okay, no shots. It's just, it's a supplement. And I will tell them, and I always think like, wow, you know, they should just spun up an affiliate. But then I think, well, maybe it's more harder than I think it is. Like maybe it's just harder to manage. I don't know, what are your thoughts? Yeah, that's actually that's such an example to use. Honestly, like based on what we've seen working with all these brands, that's all brands. Yes, like, yes, it's hard. And it's a little bit unnecessarily hard. It's like, it's like you're trying to run them. Yes, it's running a marathon hard. Sure, do brands want to do run like one or another marathon? Yes, but then if you have a turn in your shoe and then you have this heavy backpack that you have to now run with, it's much harder. So I think what we're doing with Sathy is taking the tower out of your shoe, lifting the weight off your back and just letting you run the marathon is what you're doing. And like, yes, like to be specific, it's, they deal with a brand deal with a lot of noise in general. So attribution noise, like, hey, you're giving credit of sales to people who are maybe not driving the sales. You are measuring things. You should not be measuring. You're under attributing. So there's noise that way. You have like, 7 to 80% of your affiliate network is just not performing and you're busy like following up with them. You're doing a bunch of operational work. By the way, that's another thing. It's like, you've got to, if you're paying these people, you've got to do all the taxes, the compliance, get their W9 info, submit the 1099s, all of that. And like, there's so like the payments are an entire issue. Like, how do you pay these? Because if you have like 300 people that you need to pay $50 each, it's hard to do that. It's like, you're not going to sit there wired everybody money. That's a sati takes care of a lot of this. But then without that, it's hard. Like, it's just like, yeah, I want to build an affiliate program. But then it's almost like running a marathon with a tournament in my shoe and a heavy backpack on my back. And I don't want to do that. So then they maybe just focus on something else. And it's not like they don't have things to do. They have other things to worry about. So why would I take on this huge problem? So I think we're a lot of the work we're doing with satis just lifting these unnecessary friction points, unnecessary headwinds. And then maybe even giving them a tailwind with some of our AI and automation. So yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like to me that satis is a great tool for a brand that hasn't really started doing affiliate marketing. Because they think it's just so much work and it's so many things. So this is a-- it sounds like it's a great way for them to start dipping their toe into it. And I'm assuming that sati, like Seral, has a lot of great content, instructional content. Because I know that you do a lot of videos and so forth. So I'm assuming that you have a lot of content for people to learn about how to improve in their affiliate marketing and so forth. And it sounds like it's a great tool for someone to dip their toes into. There's a lot of brands on this show who I don't have an affiliate program yet. So I definitely-- if you're listening, I would definitely look into this. And then I think it also sounds like a tool for someone who's already has an affiliate program and just needs something that has a lot of these features around fraud or on cookie list, around the other features that you mentioned, around issues with leakage and getting attribution issues. So I think it sounds like it could be a good app for both sides of the equation. 100%. Yeah, we're doing some early-- I know we're recording this before the app is live. We're doing some early tests. And it's been phenomenal. Like, as a brand, you can, if you're already having an affiliate program, you can upload your affiliate orders from your other affiliate platform. And sati will tell you how much of it was fraud. So sometimes you're uncovering thousands of dollars worth of fraud for someone and say, hey, that's the revenue you could have just saved and protected if you were on sati. So a bunch of things. So yeah, like you said, for somebody who's brand new and wants to start the right way or somebody who's made a way through a marathon, wants to drop the heavy backpack, they're also welcome. So yeah. And like I said, any one of those issues is to be able to solve it as a huge win for brands, especially the fraud. The people who are using affiliate and those links have complained-- I've heard them complain about that. I mean, it's a big complaint for a lot of people, the fraud, the leakage going on to discount codes and things like that. It's just another pain to worry about. But now that you've sort of automated the AI or have the AI that is detecting this and working with Shopify's AI, I think that takes a lot of the work out of what they have to do. So anyhow, this just sounds like it's a great tool. And I love that you've built it for people. I also love the fact that you are always building tools that not only meet what people want, but also exceed their expectations. You're always thinking about how can we take this and make it better and solve the actual problems that people have. And not try to force people into using what you think they should be doing. But looking at the actual problems they're having and then building a solution around that and making it easy for people to do it. So I think it goes to you and your team for doing that. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate you mentioning that. We work very closely with all of our customers. Even now, we are doing early tests. There's feedback, my engineering and product team, takes that feedback. And at this point, we've gotten so good. We literally ship all improvements within a 48-hour cycle, literally 90% of the things that people suggest. We're able to ship in 48 hours. So it's almost unreal, the pace of development that we're seeing now with AI programming and things like that. So it's just a great time to be in software, I believe, because you can talk to people, see the problems they're having and solve them for them. So it feels really good to do that. That's fantastic. So everyone out there, the app is sathy. And the website is mysathy.io. You want to check it out. At the time we released this episode, it should be ready and available. And it's mysathy.io. That's my, like my. And then the word sathy, which is s-a-t-h-i.io. So mysathy.io. And go check it out. If you're an affiliate, go check it out. We'll probably also include something about our in our newsletter because I want other brands who are on the show to know about this because I think this is a great tool for you to be using, especially those who really, because you think maybe there's too much work involved and there's a lot of stuff going on. This might be a great tool for you to dip your toe in and start building that affiliate network, even if it's just a little bit slowly at a time. Or for those out there who have been, who have already built an affiliate network and just have or experienced it, all these issues around fraud, around attribution and so forth. This might be the tool that you've been looking for to help you. So go check it out. Any last words you want to leave with the audience? Yeah, just a quick note on that. There will be a, we're allowing access to certain brands to start. There will be a way. You can book a demo if you just want to check it out. If you want to get on the trial and just test it out yourself, there will be a way to do that. There will be a form on the website. And it'll ask you for a referral code. If you enter the code Ramon, we'll prioritize you to give you a free trial. So yeah, just if you enter the code Ramon, when you sign up on mysatsih.io, we'll happy to prioritize your request. So yeah, but I'm pumped. Any of this was helpful. Feel free to do. And if you have any follow up questions, I'm most active on LinkedIn. Search for my name. You'll find me there. I just happy to be of any help I can. And if you do want to now or later start an affiliate program, consider getting on sati. So yeah, this is great, man. Thank you for coming back and introducing this to app. Always love to have you on the show. Love to catch up with you. Everyone out there, we're going to have the link to mysathe.io on our podcast description when we release this. But I'll also put links to our previous episodes. If you want to learn more about Yash himself, learn about his background, our very first episode goes through his sort of backstory and everything, which is great. I mean, we should, it's funny to go back and listen to it. Not funny, but it's just, it's so changed. You know what I mean? It's then, and you've changed so much since then. This experience has been fantastic. So I'll have that link so you go check it out. Otherwise, everyone out there, stay safe. Stay sane. Stay healthy and doing one last favor. You know what? The words of little crazy Randall, "To let's just be a little kinder to each other. Let's help each other." And I know we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, again, we're going to have the links on our podcast description. And I can't wait for you to try out this new app, MySazi, or MySazi.io as a website. And I'm going to make sure that we have a lot of information on that for our brands that we have on the show. Beyond that, everyone, again, thank you for this, for listening to another episode of the story of a brand. Imagine 100. Influencers constantly talking about your brand. Sounds great, right? Not with Seraal. Seraal is the all-in-one influencer platform that finds brand-aligned creators, automates outreach, and manages everything in one place. Plus, Seraal's customer happiness team will support you every step of the way. Try at risk-free with an extended 14-day trial, exclusively for the story of a brand podcast listeners. Visit storybrandoffer.com to start today. Hey, before you go, you really need your help. If you enjoy this episode, please leave us a rating and a review, which is super, super important, and give us a follow-up, simply click a little plus sign on Apple Podcasts, or you can do this also in Spotify. Your support is very, very, very critical to us attracting advertisers, sponsors, and listeners, which bottom line just helps us produce more content like this.