Sardonicast 205: Zootopia 2, Train Dreams, Castration Movie Anthology I: Traps

(guitar music) - Three, two, one. Nick, where are you going? - To be honest, I'm thinking Arby's. - That was a quote from Zootopia 2. I'm Adam from Your Movie Sex. This is Sardonicist. (laughs) - And Alex from I.G. And I thought maybe you're gonna steal this one, but I'm gonna go with, hey baby, gonna vape in your pussy. (laughs) - Oh, that's a good one. - Was that Zootopia? - Yeah, that was on others Zootopia 2. - Yeah, I think that was Zootopia 2, right? Maybe it was the first one. - Yeah, comment. - Well, no, 'cause they were talking about a cat, and so it was okay. (laughs) Like that's how they got around this censorship. - Hi guys, I'm Adam from YMS. - Hi. - And I'm a train, I'm a train dreams. - Ooh, nice. - Autistic people do like trains, even though we don't, it's only suspected. - Right. - Alex, you like trains? - I always say this. - You always say this. - I love Tom's, yeah. - Lay off it, man. You're always talking about how I love trains. - Yeah, well, like, somewhat, we need to equalize the bullying that goes on in the podcast. We need to just spread it out to make it even. - You are the most bullied of all the-- - I think so. - I think so. - Yeah, well, 'cause I'm the least normie that's how it works. - But I appreciate, you're like the lightning rod, you know, you bring all of the, and there's like, you know, it's, I don't know why people are so critical of you in the comments, it's, but it is kind of like, I don't know, a tradition at this point maybe. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, it's just a part of it. - I feel like it's mostly affectionate, you know? - Oh, sure, yeah. (laughs) - Yeah, you know. - At least from the long time viewers. - Yeah, affectionate. - Well, I mean, like, it's circled back around to the point of it like being a meme, you know? People have like fucking copypastas. (laughs) - That's true. - Who cares? There's a bunch of shit we want to talk about. - Yeah, I don't want to stop. - I think we should start off with Kill Bill, the whole bloody affair. It's something that Alex was not able to see because Lionsgate hates the British. - Understandably so. - Yeah, I know, I couldn't have fit it in anyway. It's been so, we're kind of cromming it up as in December this year. - Yeah. - So we don't have the normal space. But I've seen obviously Kill Bill one and two before, so I'm kind of curious. - Exactly. - That's like an animated thing thrown in there. There's something to do with Fortnite. What is going on? - Yeah. So I was kind of excited for this. So allegedly, the whole bloody affair was a cut of the first two Kill Bill films released as one film. And allegedly, the film was originally supposed to be released as one film and only got split into two because money, fucking Weinstein's, whatever. And so the original whole bloody affair supposedly premiered theatrically in Japan in 2006 or something. I don't know if that's true. Like, it might be true. But I have to wonder how different that original version would be from what we got today because the extra animation sequence, like, was that not created new for this version? I'm very confused, honestly. - Yeah. - I mean, to me, that seemed like something that was like obligatory. Hey, we're gonna be re-releasing it, but let's put actual something new in there to try to entice people to come. - Yeah, so was the extra animation even in the original Japanese release? Like, I don't even think so. - I don't think so. - Yeah, I guess spoilers for Kill Bill 1 and 2, that, you know, it's a 20 year old movie. - 20 year olds is crazy. - Great movie. We all love it, I'm assuming. I don't know, Jake, you might hate it. - I remember liking "Paw One" more than "Paw Two". - I was the same way. I always liked "Paw One". I'd never loved it. It was never my favorite turn to you know or anything, but I thought "Paw One" was like, yeah, the better half. - Yeah, my thoughts have changed a lot after seeing "Paw One" and "Paw One" affair. - Oh really? - Yeah, I feel like it really, it was just a totally new experience for me. You know, just getting to see it in theaters, but also I think that some changes that were made actually helped the movie in a lot of ways. - Oh, like what? - Well, we're talking spoilers, right? - Yes. This is gonna be a quick discussion. We have so many things to talk about. - Yeah, yeah. - There are like three key changes, or maybe four. So the first one is that the opening quote is not the "Clingon Proverb" anymore. It's a dedication to a filmmaker who I don't know of, but it's a dedication to filmmaker. And then another key change is that it doesn't turn black and white during the big fight you know, because there was no need because of the sensor. So it's just all full color during that. And then there's an extended part of the animation sequence which I found to be really kind of unnecessary, like it was fine, but it really fucked with the pace because that's already kind of like a long digression. And then it keeps going and going. I'm like, okay, this is really like a necessary. - It does absolutely fuck with the pacing of that scene. And you know, perhaps I'm just gonna throw out my bias. I've seen part one and two about a trillion times. - Right, when I was younger. It's been a while since I've seen them. You know, I was kind of waiting for like a 4K Blu-ray or you know, which I got, but then I heard the whole bloody affair was happening. I'm like, okay, I'll wait for that. - Yeah. - And so, you know, this was my first time watching in a while, but I do essentially have the other two films memorized down to like a pacing. And especially with them being very music-oriented films, very editing and music-heavy films. - Yeah. - You know, Quentin Tarantino, part of his charm, one of his biggest talents, I think, is his ability to discover and showcase and utilize existing music in narrative ways in his films. - Yeah. - He clearly writes scenes, two songs that he's found or heard. This has been done ever since his first film, Reservoir Dogs, you know, stuck in the middle with you. Like, he clearly wrote the scene to that song. And Kill Bill is like an entire two films where that's happening for like 80% of it. And so me having that pacing especially with the music made the changes of pacing in this film feel a lot more noticeable and there's not that many. But the extra animation scene in particular was like, oh, what? Like kind of like, you know, your heart skips a beat but like not in a good way. Like, something's like, what the heck? And then what I didn't like about that animation scene, even though it was long unnecessary, probably great for anime fans, you know, probably great just for people who love anime inherently. But they wound up just replaying the same song. Like so the song would stop and then it would start again and play that exact same section of the song. And those sections of the song like very distinct pieces or cues within the piece, I already have associated with parts of a scene that happened five minutes ago, right? Where like, you know, the bus is putting out his fucking cigar and the, you know, blood drips from the bed onto her face as she's hiding underneath like very, very distinct cues that hold so much emotional memory for me. Now just being repurposed, I have a suspicion that even if this was a scene that was originally intended to be in Kill Bill and was cut, I have a suspicion that they wouldn't have just played the same song again. Right. And that in this version, they're just essentially not wanting to license a new piece of music, which is just kind of irritating and frustrating. And it's not the only example of what I feel makes this re-release kind of just fucking sloppy and thrown together, in a way where it doesn't really seem like this purposeful. This is exactly how it would have been Quentin Tarantino's name plastered all over everything. Like, is if it's like an artist's full vision, no, it really does feel like they just kind of threw together two existing movies with minor changes. And I don't know about your screening, Jake, but like there were people on Reddit complaining even about, even about like the, was it 30 or 70 millimeter? Like some of the film print screenings where they were saying, like, yeah, the image quality is like not that good. Like, I don't know what the hell this is. In my screening, it was just like a regular digital one. But I also noticed like this is like, this is like worse quality than the 4K Blu-ray. Like what is going on with this transfer? Like why does it look like not a clear image quality for something I'm seeing in a theater? How did your screenings go? You know, I saw a digital as well. And it was like a really nice big screen. And it was like one of those situations where it's cropped. So it's like, it could have filled up more of the screen. But for some reason it was kind of like cropped to the wide screen. I don't know what that was about. And yeah, the quality wasn't like spectacular. I actually thought like, it's gotta be, I feel like it looked better on like a 4K, like on my TV or something a little bit. Yeah. But it was fine. You know, it was, it wasn't like distracting, me at least. But it's interesting because you have this experience of being like devoted to the original two films and like knowing it beat by beat. And I haven't I've seen those it's been years. So it's like really kind of rediscovering the films themselves. So it's not like I'm going, oh well this changed than this part. And like it was it was way more like just getting a unified experience and having the opportunity to sit down and like you know just bathe in all of the glory of what this is. And you know honestly for like the first half of the movie I was going like is this kind of like way worse than I remember because I was just like all of the quirks and mannerisms of Tarantino are so fully on display. It's almost like a parody of things at this point. It's a satire film essentially. Yeah. Yeah. It's so like the foot stuff and all of the like needed drops. It's so the needle drops to it kind of fucks with the pace a lot of times where it's just like okay I get like this track. You have to it has to play out so it gets to this moment here. But it's like you're it's kind of drawn out. So there are moments like that where I'm like oh shit. And you could tell there were people in my theater who've never seen the movies before who are kind of like getting a little restless during certain digressions and scenes that like and for example the the anime sequence like the new stuff it does feel like a retread of like the emotional beat that came right before especially because of music like you said is the exact same as like we're not getting any new information really we're just kind of like retreading an emotional beat that we just had. So while I guess if you like love these movies it can be kind of cool to see more. I also thought the animation style was different enough that it was a bit jarring. Yeah. I mean no I know exactly what you mean. Yeah like the older style was a lot looser and more expressive. So yeah I wonder if it was the same studio. But there is one detail that I do want to mention that I think changes a lot in terms of like the emotional climax of the movie and why I think this version works so well at least for me is because like that emotional heaviness that you get at the end of the film where it's like anticlimactic anticlimactic where it's just the conversation between the bride and bill but at the end of the first half before the intermission kicks in we don't get the little tease that bill says that her daughter is alive. Yeah which was like the cliffhanger at the end of the first one that's not there anymore. So you don't and since it's been so long since I've seen it it was like brand new you don't get that moment to hit until she literally sees her daughter at the end of the whole film. Yeah and that to me that just like hit like a sledgehammer like I was getting an uma thermon is so good in this movie she's just great like as much as there's so much artificiality and stuff that like reminds you this is a movie this is a movie and that's like fun and exciting why we love these movies it's like she without her there that like emotional core it's so crucial like that's what keeps it all together. I know what you mean I have like the opposite experience for the cliffhanger and how things are revealed because I think on paper that sounds like a great idea to remove the cliffhanger because it's not necessary if it's not like two films but I have a couple problems problem a I do feel like the emotional tone and weight of the cliffhanger at the end of the first movie was pretty fucking cool right especially like I remember exactly what fucking music q comes in with it too like there is something emotionally resonant and powerful about that cliffhanger and things ending it's really memorable. Yes yes and things ending on that way and then you know another issue that comes from this is when the reveal does happen and I'm trying to put myself in the mind of people that like don't expect it to be happening and now thinking like okay yeah when when do we find out it's literally when she just shows up with Bill the cue that happens when she's like bang bang mommy like there's such a cheesy music you ran in and in and the crank zoom on her face where it's like I feel like that's a little less emotionally powerful for for that moment and maybe just like I don't know how strange and maximalist and and editing heavy the film has been up until that point would allow the average viewer to not feel like that's a weird kind of cheeseball way of doing the reveal perhaps that's the experience I wouldn't know because I can't put my you know I'm not that person I already knew the twist but yeah that's how I felt about it and then also it doesn't really feel like one movie anyway when you have an intermission in the middle of both movies like I'm pro intermission right I'm pro intermission when there's like a natural break and you're not you know fucking with the pacing but if the entire selling point is this is one movie now I mean there was a longer intermission than the amount of time it would take for me to take out one blu-ray and put in another right so I'm kind of getting like an even more detached experience than if I were watching it at home right maybe maybe not from like oh watching it theatrically and then waiting for the second one to come out but it doesn't really feel like a cohesive continuous story in this way with the intermission yeah also there was no timer on the intermission so shout out to the brutalist for having a timer shout out to the brutalist for having like an actual image to associate with the intermission and music to associate with the intermission there was no music it was like the most basic ass fucking like was there a train there's like the sound of a train I think I don't know I fucking went to the bathroom or maybe that was an actual train probably I think it was an actual train because like when yeah the the intermission was like yeah why where would there be a train the actual intermission was like the most default basic ass like editing software font just the word intermission no timer no music composed for this no music leading into the second film so that when the intermission starts back again it's just this weird jarring like okay we're going from silent title to silent title of like the next chapter or whatever yeah and it's just like such a jarring weird like I don't believe that this is like the experience of watching them both together that just feels like a sloppy thrown together kind of thing okay I mean in a way I agree with you because I do think you're not really gaining that much or if anything maybe you're losing a little bit by seeing it this way from how it was originally shown like you can just watch both movies back to back which is what most people probably do I think the best aspect of this reissue is simply the fact that people can go in theaters and watch kill the volume ones and two one and two right right there back to back yeah you also miss the beginning of volume two with you know when she's driving and says I'm going to kill Bill you know and that's like a true moment yeah yeah I mean you lose a little bit but you gain something out of it too and I think just seeing it combined in this long format just I don't know or reminded me in ways of like other directors really long shaggy personal probably like magnolia or something or Babylon or you know like really um egregiously long very um self-indulgent masterpieces that yeah I love to think about and that's a word that kept running through my head with self-indulgent but also like enjoying that and appreciating that and seeing like to me this seems like his most personal movie like it's his and I'm this is just my reading of it it's like his interpretation of his parents divorce you know and his parents like not being together and like this kind of like family strife as seen through all of his child childhood loves you know all of the his favorite things just so shamelessly it's like a 12 year old made a movie about his kids his parents getting divorced and it's like seen through that lens it's like so touching it's almost like an ode to his mom perhaps or you know like there's a lot there that is interesting to look at that I don't know I just had a new appreciation for it that before I just kind of dismissed it a little bit. That's interesting no yeah I just it doesn't feel like it's a single film like I couldn't compare it to like magnolia because like that feels like a singular piece and you know even even being in one theater for one showing you know the inner the intermission doesn't help but also like tonally they feel like two distinct films like I've always considered them to be one film as like an experience as in I'm like rating the same story like they're both 10 to me because I just love the combination of both of them but it doesn't really feel like one film it does it does it definitely feels like two different films yeah that are a part of the same story what do you think of the Paul Dan O'Kameo that was a bit unnecessary yeah yeah I guess just a couple more things to note about the changes the crazy 88 fight scene being in color it was kind of funny just because it doesn't feel different at all just just to think about how stupid the fucking mpa are like oh yeah that changed so much all the violence we're like seeing it's like oh it's worse if the blood is read which like there's so many movies that have like had to skirt around that like evil dead having like characters spurred out like black or white blood or whatever like that was all just to not get an NC-17 or like an X rating. And it's so silly. And there is something charming about like how they managed to get around it in the original kill bill. The timing of the editing, you know, with going to black and white on the eye pluck and then coming back in in the blue colored silhouette scene. I thought that was a really creative choice. And so it's like, yeah, I would not like a world where the MPAA is forcing those changes to happen. But out of that change needing to happen, there was a really cool creative choice that is in the first film that we only see as part one. I loved that Sophie got her second arm chopped off. (laughing) That was awesome. That was the thing I liked the most about like the changes. Oh, that was a change. No, yeah, in the original catch, she only cuts off one of her arms. And as soon as she says, "Give me your other arm," then it cuts back to like her, the clothes shut of her and builds hand on her face and they continue having conversation. So in the original, the implication is that she only cut off one arm. You never see her full body in either film when she's talking to Bill after the fact. But in this one, you literally just see her fucking chop or other arm off, which is great. I love that. That's actually really funny. Oh, that is great. Yeah. And then, yeah, what else does this change? Nothing. And then a shitty fucking Fortnite scene at the very end, passed the credits. Yeah, what is that about? What does that mean? I guess you can watch it on YouTube. Wait, I didn't even watch that part. Oh, you didn't? You didn't even stay far. No, I did. No, I left it during the credits. It was like midnight. I was exhausted. So, yeah, basically after the really lengthy credits end, there's one like outtake scene, like a really short outtake. I forget even what the outtake was. And then after that, like a shitty, to the animation of like characters going, let's go to the lobby, which is the intro for the Fortnite animation thing. But just so poorly thought out in terms of where they placed in the film. And when you're placing that at the end, as soon as you have the animation of characters going, let's all go to the lobby, everybody thinks it's time to leave. And so people will just like fucking, and people posted on Reddit about this too. Like, oh yeah, like people just left during that part because they thought it was a thing from the theater saying, let's go to the, like it's literally saying, go to the lobby. But that's just the intro to the Fortnite thing, which makes it also just, again, abundantly clear that this is just thrown together and not really planned out. They just tacked it onto the end, should have been a pre-show in my opinion. It should have been before the film started. But yeah, you can watch it on YouTube. It's fucking horrendous. There is no personality of Quentin Tarantino and it whatsoever at any moment. It is all just Fortnite. There's random Fortnite-looking characters. You know, Yuki drinks like a fucking blue drink to gain health. There's no blood. Literally just like a speck of blue on someone's chest. And it's not even like, liquid. It's just like a stain on their shirt. - Like, did Tarantino direct it? - That's what they say and I don't believe it. - What? - Yeah, maybe he's stood in the room. - I think that he was paid to have his name on it. - Yeah. - They censor the word pussy and pussy wagon. So it's just like a little decal of a cat. Instead, I'm like, just don't even drive the fucking truck. Like, what is it? Oh yeah, this is just, this is for children and we're throwing it in. Well, what are we talking about here? And they have the gall. They have the gall to call it the lost chapter by Quentin Tarantino. All of those words on the screen. - Yeah. - Like, Quentin Tarantino's name just like associated with this. As if this is how he envisioned it to include mostly just a video game that wasn't invented when he made Kill Bill. It was disgusting. That was just, that was horrendous. Horendous, awful cringe. Very difficult to get through. Two out of ten. I'm glad I didn't stay for that. - Oh yeah, yeah. And yeah, the entire experience of the whole Bloody Affair, I think I would give an eight at a ten just like, I feel like my preferred version is the two films separately. And even though on paper, I like the idea of experiencing this as one whole thing. It just doesn't feel like this is what the ideal version of that one experience would be. I don't believe that this is what would have been released at the time. I don't believe he would have used the same song again, right? So to me, the whole Bloody Affair, as it was described, if let's say it was something released in Japan in 2006 or whatever, to me that film is still lost and it wasn't released. So I'd be curious to seeing that actual film at some point in the future. Yeah. I mean, yeah, eight at a ten. - You're not really making me feel like I'm missing out by not seeing this. I feel like I've still got the prime experience of watching the movies. - No, yeah, to me, I guess, but. - All right. Well, yeah, I mean, I had the experience at least, but yeah, I feel like your complaints are pretty valid, honestly. - Thank you. - But yeah, I mean, I'd be willing to watch this version again for sure. I don't think it's really that huge of a difference between just minor stuff. - Yeah. I do love the second arm trap. - That is fun. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That is good plan. - I'll have to think about whether or not I would watch the home video release because it's like, okay, will they take out the intermission? Then how will that flow? Like, that's a good question. - You know, it's funny. It's been so long since I've seen the second volume that I forgot that she plucks out her eye, L-drivers eye. - But so funny. - That was dialy-gasped. - That was so good. - Yeah, there's so much great stuff in those movies. But yeah, I give the originals like a 10. And who not like, yeah, I might watch them in that form again at some point and on my 4K blue rays and stuff. And we'll see if that holds up. But yeah, like, I mean, I have a very, very fun memory of those films. It's a very personal nostalgic experience for me. And Vivica A. Fox is in it. Cool cat. - True. - Yes. - I got cinematic unit. - It was a button pot. - All right. How you doing, Alex? - I'm good. I like Cool Bill. It was one of my favorite Tarantino go-to's though. But every time I've seen it, I've enjoyed them both, but particularly that first part. Cool. - Yeah. I feel like I'm okay with just watching on my end time. - Sure. - These two together, about the same length as one castration, maybe part one. - Yeah, pretty much, pretty close. - Yeah. - Like four and a half hours, yeah. - Yeah. - We tried to make that discussion quick. It still wound up being like 30 minutes. - I know. I was talking as fast as I could. - All right. Well, what are we doing next? - To Topia. - Okay. - All right. - To Topia means you're tropolis, right? - Two tropolis. - Two tropolis, two Tokyo Drifts. - Doggo Wago Pucho Wucho. - I have very few thoughts about this movie. I thought it was fine. - Oh really? - I thought it was the hottest good. - It was enjoyable. - Yeah, it's kind of what? - What's your first owner? - Didn't we talk about this? - I don't remember. - I feel like we did have a question about that. I can't remember the ones who looked. - You might have vetoed it. - I am Armadillo. Let's go with that. - Nice. - Who was the hottest character? - That's a great question. I haven't had to think about that. All right, we'll get back to you. - Sure. - Andy Sandberg. - Which one was that again? - The Lynx. - He played the Lynx. - Oh yeah. Oh yeah, Furries are fucking obsessing over Pobbert Lynx. - The Lynx, Lynx Lee. - Interesting. That's their new thirst trap. - This movie's making like so much money in China. - A bajillion. - Yeah. - Just everywhere, right? - But China especially. - Like it's already the number four. - 10. - And it's probably gonna take over Minecraft in the next few weeks. - Wow. - Just doing it. You're like, "Just come out. It's probably gonna have legs. Everyone's gonna see it with all the days and everything." And then I have a toll come out. And Disney's just happy. - You know what I found? Very, very interesting. So Zootopia one comes out. This might not be like common knowledge among non-Furries. But the reason why it was so popular among Furries is not just because, oh, there's anthropomorphic animal characters in it. It was one of the first movies ever, especially like popular brand films. That felt like it was pandering to Furries. In ways where it was like pretty clear, there were, you know, at this point, because Furries have been around for a long time, what sort of jobs do you think Furries get? It's all fucking tech IT. - I think this is. - Creative animation, right? - Yeah. - Literally, if you're working in an animation studio today, whether it be 2D or 3D or anything, your coworkers are fucking Furries, right? And it's not an insignificant amount that are Furries. And so now where it's like, okay, like the people creating these things are Furries. It was clear that in this film, whether or not it was like actual Furries on the writing team, like Furries were definitely consulted and considered. and like, panned her to for Zootopia. And there's like a huge list of examples and then on their fucking Disney social media things and people being like, "Oh, where are you first to the screening?" And stuff like, it was like very clearly like, endorse as much as you can without, you know, making it like a weird news thing, I guess. Do you have verifiable sources? Yeah, where it's like the community knows. - Oh, okay. - The community knows sort of thing. - Okay. - And so that was, that was a, that's one of the reasons why like, for he's absolutely loves Zootopia. And I'm like, you know, Luke Warmonet, I just found the first film to be like really, like paint by numbers in terms of its story, kind of like predictable, like the whole, they're gonna go, what did they say? They're gonna go rabbit or something like that, that whole, - It was like herbivores and carnivores was the main conflict of it, right? - Yeah, it was just kind of like boring for the most part. - Was there not a lot of criticism about it because it was like a racism allegory that was like a very flawed and like not? - It's just, yeah, that's the thing you do with an anthropomorphic animal society plot, right? Anyway, one of the things that was pretty apparent from this, the jump from the first film to the second film was that the first film, there were so many species that were just like not included whatsoever, right? - Yeah. - And you know, for ease like to see whatever species they are represented. And so the marketing for this film, you look at like some of the earlier trailers, a lot of them were literally just like, how many headshots of different characters can we fit in within like 10 seconds? And they were literally doing like one per frame sort of thing where you had to like pause and slow down. 'Cause part of their marketing, they understand that like, okay, who are the people that are gonna be talking about our film on social media for free? (laughing) It's the fucking phrase, right? And so they throw in as many like new animal characters as possible just because they know there'll be furries that like will pause on one and be like, oh shit, I love this guy. So cute, this one looks weird or whatever, right? Viable marketing strategy. The reason why this one was such a huge hit, hit, a huge hit particularly in China. Nobody's talked about this and this is just my little fucking conspiracy theory which I believe is 100% true. Is that the new species that they focused on in terms of including as main characters, right? We have reptiles. The most prominent reptile in the entire film is a snake played by Ki Hui Kuan, right? Yeah. New other prominent character, not featured, species not even featured in the first film. A horse, we got mayor horse. Fucking forget his fucking name. Patrick Warburton. Yeah. Those are the two most prominent new main character like species types that were not featured in the first film. Like sure, like the links, sure we didn't see a links but it's like we saw felines, right? The Chinese zodiac is currently on the year of the snake and in February, 2026, it is going into the year of the horse. And so this film has been in production. For such a long time that they probably included both of these characters knowing that the release date would be somewhere around this time and knowing that like, okay, if it gets delayed or whatever, we're still on the year of the horse, right? I think that that would be crazy to say that that's a coincidence. When so much emphasis is put on the Chinese market especially with family films at this point. Like that has to be true. That has to be true. I would have to ask a Chinese person, you know? Sure. Whether or not Disney did it. Would this influence whether you see it? There's a horse or a snake in it. Is that going to influence you? The answer is yes. That is true though, bringing up the gap between the first movie. It was what, like 2016 or something? It's like nearly 10 years between these sequels for some reason. It's not like the first one was a flop or anything. It's surprising considering the sequel machine that it's taken this long. Seeing as it has, I'm sure they did. They both broke records. Yeah. Yeah, but it's only seem to gain more like kind of cultural capital in that space. It hasn't really affected its popularity at all. And yeah, it's nice though. It's talking about like the character designs in a Disney movie. It's like, oh yeah. That's kind of like what you used to be known for and good at was like animation and design and characters and like a likeable broad family films. Yeah. Is that of like, you know, live action, the loan stitch and cynical snow white stuff and say, oh yeah, this is what these films should be. This is what like a family Disney film should be. You know, it's pretty unoffensive, harmless. It's fun. It's got these like fun set pieces. A high cadence of action throughout the whole thing. Doesn't take itself too seriously. It's pretty self-aware. Yes, it is. I liked it. I thought it was like a breezy and fun. And I did prefer a lot actually over the first movie, which I similarly just, I saw the once. I haven't thought about it since it was a very memorable for me. And partially it was because of the like, I don't know if animals are the characters. I want to see like a variety of different types of animals for story-telling purposes too, right? And having reptiles in there. Well, yeah, I want to see the whole gambit. No hoofers. Especially because in the realm of animation, when you bring in in reptiles that have like different skeletons and ways of moving, you can do some really fun stuff with animation. So when they go to the saloon and everything and the variety of kind of creepy weird animation stuff they can do there and the gags they can get from it, I thought the gags even were like, so it's funny, this is almost like the old school picks our way and doing things where they sat up a world and all the sight gags and the concept is like baked into the humor that didn't feel insincere. And yeah, there's a challenge to it. And I like these two main characters too. It's like a, I don't know. I was talking about these sight detectives, investigation, like tropes. I do like that. It's like a story framing, even though it is kind of simple. And well, it needs to be like a Disney Family movie. I don't know, I like this. - Yeah, yeah, I feel like it has, it was like the perfect marriage of a kind of irreverent like Shrek style, like commenting on like actual pop culture things, like there's the Godfather references and all that sort of thing, but also like having this self-contained Pixar universe that feels like authentic and there's a bit of heart in there. Yeah, it's just kind of like design. I don't know, like perfectly designed in a lab to just be, to just go down easy and just be kind of an an offensive fun family movie. And yeah, like you were saying, I was like, there's lots of really good action set pieces, like houses on cliffs crashing, you know, tubes, you know, like lots of interesting-- - Drowning. - Drowning, you know, the fun kind of stuff. Okay, but for real, there's a sequence in this movie that kind of pissed me off at Judy Hopps. - She's toxic. - She's fucked up, like I was getting pissed at her. I'm like, okay, yeah, the fox, his issue is that he's a slacker. - Your issue is that you're a psychopath who wants to kill yourself in the name of a dudey. Like, and you wanna kill him. And it's like, you're like jumping into a pipe that's, they're like, you're going to drown. And she's like, well, we gotta do it. - I'm invincible. I'm invincible. And then she's mad at him. I was pissed. They were very-- - No apology. No apology. Judy's toxic is fucked. - Yeah, that's-- I wanna see that developed in the third movie. I'd like, you know, but I guess they're in therapy right now. They're in their work place, "Mandage of Therapy." - Yeah. - Well, that goes back to the fan service, right? 'Cause that's like one of the memes with the first to me is, you know, the comic and every portion. - The portion. - Yeah. - The fan service, like relationships. - Which I didn't even know about. - I didn't even know about it. - Until people were commenting on my video of my review. They were like, wow, the abortion plot was really like hard to, I was like, whoa, what? Did I watch the wrong video? - But like, yeah. With the therapy scene, with them, especially being framed in that first trailer, it was like, whoa, they like, it's a gavanale. And then they're all like, then showing up with a pram with a baby in it. And it's like, you know exactly what you're doing to me. - Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. They know, they're given little treats for their audience. (laughs) As much as they can. I thought, yeah, I thought that the set pieces and like environments and just variety of what was shown visually was just so much better realized in this film. Because the first film just kind of did feel like, you know, stereotypical boring procedural mystery where they're like, who did the thing? And then there's a twist. And like, they're going through a lot of like, similar familiar beats, but also like locations. Like, oh yeah, okay, we got the mob boss thing. And it's, I don't know. This film felt a lot more varied and it felt more like an action adventure. Where they're actually going somewhere. They're actually discovering new places and new things. And the pacing just kept things going in a very fun and interesting way. energetic way that just yeah way way better than the first in my opinion just my experience was much more positive I like the first one a little more I think just cuz like the character Arx are kind of similar and the second one I mean it's different enough, but you know, it's still like you're you have characters go on an emotional arc And then you kind of got a fear out of way to fuck it up in this equal to to get them to evolve in a new way I don't know who's I'd say they're both like just as enjoyable to me, but it's been a while since I've seen the first one But the zebros the zebros was good. Yeah, I like that. So what animal are they gonna pick next to like bring into the Birds it's gonna be a throats. That was what was teased at the end. Okay. That's why the feather fell. Yeah, all right I think it was like a post credits or something did you say? Okay, no, I never really stay from these incredible things. I just clear off definitely birds birds Definitely birds 1000% Hmm, they should do like insects I could get dark because like that these guys are eating something Fish and insects like revolting rising up. I wonder if they'll address that what what actor is going to voice the bird the main bird Michael Keaton Nice. Yeah, that's not a bad choice Alex. Do you have a good do you have a Patrick warburton voice? That you know, no, that's what I can't do Hey, Peter Okay, I just associated with that fucking YouTube channel the the yo mama even though it's not Patrick warburton Oh, yeah, they sound impression of it Hey, Peter so That was just scary don't do that. Oh my god Was it uncanny? No, it's it sounds like you're you're trying to like chase someone down a dark alley No, you know what so they released the um obviously like the character headshot images Before we saw any of their screen presence or voice acting or anything and people were obviously like oh Look, there's a horse and I was kind of like whatever because he looked like a fucking Fabio Yeah, piece of shit kind of like dude bro like oh, I'm obsessed with my looks. I'm majestic or whatever That's the impression I got from just that still frame The way that his character is in the film I like it he won me over for sure like I love that there was like more of a silliness to it I love that he was like a goofy character and Patrick warburton's performance Really worked well for the character. Mm-hmm. I thought he was great Also, I loved the hoof hands. I like that they didn't commit to having a Posable fingers although you would almost expect them to like have some sort of scene where they're having difficulty doing something I'm trying to pick someone up. Yeah, I'm trying to like. Yeah, I don't know type. Oh, you know something I don't know I mean the sloth came back of course they you know he returned for a little cameo How is he driving that car so fast? Well, you see they they cut before Any of the fast motions happen. No, they cheated. It makes no sense. It makes no sense He how is he turning the wheel so fast? How's he pushing the pedal? It's I agree A major flaw in this film. I prefer that joke than the soft joke in the original That was like the whole marketing thing was the sloth. Yeah, that was yeah. I'm actually very happy and relieved that they didn't just indulge in the exact same fucking joke again true. He was barely yeah. Yeah, I like I like that it was used differently and it wasn't just the same like oh we're at the DMV Oh things are slow like Because yeah rewatching even the first film. It's just kind of like yeah Who cares like it is a slow scene I get it I get it but like I'm so I I understand that they would have been very tempted to do that So I think I think the balance worked well the same with the goats, you know doing for love and thunder recently in the obvious Oh the internet screaming goat bullshit. They resist the urge to do that as well with the goat characters I feel those are well. Yeah some restraint guys They have avoided a lot of like very bad Directions like there were so many missteps. They could have made the sequel and then they have been was very you know That's a good sign. It was it was a really good well-balanced movie when it came to like the humor they didn't Stay on any particular thing for too long There were jokes that were legitimately funny to me the shining reference Fucking pretty good. Yeah, that was a good one. This one good sight gags. Yeah, yeah, there's there's some There's like a lot going on like that there's legitimately funny gags and there's a lot of them I like when The mayor just does the press conference and he's like chief bogo is dead Like even though it's like I didn't believe that that was happening, you know, I could see that the joke was I'd like that they just wound up doing that. Well, they'll just be yeah if you're paying attention I just rewards you like when that chase scene where they go through Burning animals that a burning man and just yeah Your mammal. Yes, just silly man. I do have an animal critique there if we're in those kind of lines I think it's it's nuts. It's insane right the the For the story to be based around snakes And there being so many mammal characters that there's not single mongoose character what are they doing their whole thing is like hunting snakes Connoes not single mongoose Hmm got to get on there wait was the um the guy voiced by Fucking is it Alan Tudyk There is a mongoose character But he was already is he not yeah, he's kind of I don't know could be like a ferrier it could yeah, it might be though Might be a little like in which case they should have made him a bigger part, you know, yeah, I know you mean Yeah, he had like a little side thing Um oh there isn't a central mongoose In Zutavio what what the hell was it may he might have been a ferret Yeah, cuz he was in the first movie right and in the Disney plus spin-off Oh that classic which yeah was not great The music to actually jichina like um in one of the action scenes I was like why is this Reminding me of the Incredibles and then yeah and the credits Okay, cool. Yep. Oh, he's a weasel. Oh weasel. Yeah, that makes sense. So no mongoose Weasels would eat a snake right? Um, I don't know, but I just know a mongoose is like specifically evolved to have like This is so dorky, but they're like immune to snake venom nice like evolved to hunt snakes So just thought come on man. You got like the pig cops maybe one of those two pig cops should have been should have been a mongoose You know what I'm saying. Yeah, I feel like Alan two day if he was in the movie at all you should have played a shark or a snake Or is that just fan fiction? I made a joke that you will not understand, but that's fine. Yeah, I don't It's in the name. It's in the name think catch that one. Yeah. No, yeah, it worked uh worked really well the the I don't think that the twist villain aspect was necessary. They didn't need to do it but I'm glad that they did it in kind of like a self-aware enough way. Yeah, it surprised me. I I am the twist in the first movie. Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed that they did it twice in a row Because now it feels like they have to commit to doing that again on the third one or at least acknowledge it Like if it doesn't happen like do a fake out where you think it's happening and then it didn't happen like now they're committing Yeah, I give them another nine years and they pull CZ So you trouble us three legit. Why is everything taking so long to get produced? I mean I feel like what with TV series each season takes like five years and even movie sequels like it just takes so long to get things off the ground It seems like um I don't know. Is it just the industry slowing down and it's just like I don't know everything's in flux. Yeah I don't know everything just seems like it's changing like every day as far as like a business and You can't really bank on the future. So I mean they did they timed it with the zodiac calendar They definitely did I don't know yet. I think it offsets the like snow white timing Yeah, they should have had More horse puns. I don't I don't think they had a horse pun Here's some easy ones. They could have said neighborhood at some point Okay, you're setting up you have a list Yeah, they did you know they they did say um he does say nay as like nay is a no but he says nay like the nay sound okay Which was fun. Here's an easy one that they could have done so he's the mayor That word sounds a lot like mayor Right that could be okay You could have incorporated that whenever I hear the word mayor. I think mayor. Okay. I think you're allowed to have 60 more seconds on this topic Okay, well um seven out of ten. I think it was uh Pretty good. Yeah, nice nice sequel. Yeah, I'd give it a seven out of ten as well. Yeah, it was nice. I'm slightly below that Like a strong three star How five it's yeah, it's good. I Didn't love how it kind of wrapped up the The main two characters like tension the way that's relieved with this kind of Therapy dump conclusion. Oh, yeah, it's really it was kind of funny It was kind of funny, but I mean for it to be elevated more than my rating I'd need a bit more of like an emotional core to it outside of the breezy kind of fun of just the colors and motion of it. And I love that SNAP character. I think that's like the heart of it for me. It's great. Many fool for it. Yeah. Alex, who was the newscaster character in your localized version? Because they're different in regions. Jake and I have the same one for North America. I think it was a moose. You just had a moose too. You got Peter Moose Bridge. I think it might be. I believe so. What the fuck? Yeah, I think it was a moose. Who's it supposed to be? I thought it was localized. It would be different. I heard that in the first movie, it was a localized differently. Was that the same character in the first movie for you too? Peter Moose Bridge? I was nearly 10 years ago. I do not remember that character. I swear there was like a flashback at like the beginning of the movie though. Anyway, Peter Moose Bridge is voiced by a Canadian famous news anchor Peter Man's Bridge, who I think is retired at this point, but he did stuff for like CBC. And that would be the Canadian and American version. Apparently they have different news anchors depending on region. There's like an Aussie one. Like a koala or that's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Like different little cameos or whatever. We see the UK has no animals. I can depend it to itself because we've kind of murdered all the interesting ones. There's nothing left. All right. Twain dreams. Where are you going with that first reading? Nothing. I misspoke. So you guys like this movie? I hear. I actually do. Yeah. Okay. I kind of really loved it. Yeah. Cool. I was big into this. What did this come from? I feel like I just kind of nowhere. I haven't seen anything from this character before. It's just been dropped on Netflix. Yeah. It's really connected with people. Well, it was based off of a novella. novella. Yeah. By a guy who I don't know much about, but Connor Obers considered him to be like one of his favorite writers and I like Connor Obers. Dennis Johnson. Sorry. Who is he Jake? You know more? Yeah. I haven't read any of his stuff. Dennis Johnson though. That's his name. Yeah. It's a nice little meditative vibes scenery sounds type film. Very low stakes in terms of like what it's offering narratively, but I feel like there's space for those types of movies. It's nice. Yeah. It's nice to see one. I thought it was good at what it set out to do. Really. The expound on the low stakes things. I found it to be kind of the inverse as far as like the the tapestry of someone's entire life condensed into a minute's 40 during a time period where so much is changing. It felt kind of like, oh, they've managed to actually encapsulate this very kind of high stakes like family situation and survival and without you know, I must have 12-ing villains and kind of stereotypes of some of the stories from this time. It felt like very organic and real back and kind of realistic and meditative as a result. That's what I mean in terms of it being like real back. Right. Yeah. That's exactly what I loved about it. It can obviously attribute a lot to Malik and that kind of quiet to naturalistic style, but I think it carved out its own voice. I was very attached to this main character and the dreamy structure of it. Yeah. Like showing this entire time period without it feeling clunky and it flowed really well without it was good with the way it was using this. What is normally a bit of a nitpick for me when there's ongoing references using shots from earlier in the movie to kind of like keep you up or catch you up or remind you of something that happened. I find that to be kind of a annoying trope, but I felt like the way that was built into the structure of this film with these dreams he's having being baked into the kind of movement and cadence of like the way the character was aging and changing and it felt like time was slipping through his fingers so it gave it like a really unique feel to me and felt kind of like unpredictable and it it just felt like life and that experience of the more of it you feel the more the quicker it goes and these people just kind of fade in and out and they leave these impacts and shards on you and it's all over the place and unpredictable emotionally. I found it very satisfying the the depths it would go and the highs it would go to especially with that. My ending I loved that ending if I had a quite poignant and meaningful. Why did you hate it Jake? Yeah so yeah. Yeah I mean I I found there was a lot that I liked about it I did like some of this cinematography and I thought that Joel like was was good in this but yeah I just felt that it was kind of like a trickly sentimental kind of homage to Malik who I love Malik you know but this just felt like there was nothing there to like chew on it felt very kind of it just didn't connect with me emotionally at all. I was bored I really just didn't connect with this character or this environment it felt like a kind of widewashing of of this time in history to to kind of be more palatable to like our modern sensibilities and give us an idea of like this romantic view of these older times even though it does show like obviously some of the harder truths of that like for instance and I haven't read the novel but from what I understand I did read the beginning of it. Oh actually this I'll say this first part was we can talk about this a bit but yeah just overall I found it just unmoving and I did yeah it just it didn't hit with me and I don't know necessarily what it is I mean I think there's a kind of like earnest like longing towards like a spiritual catharsis especially in like the final moments of this and like seeking and dealing with grief and stuff and I just found it to be not not very compelling in that aspect you know like it did remind me of some of malachisms and like every scene is with a beautiful sunset in the background and it just felt like very kind of phony I don't know I just didn't buy into it and the ending sequence with like the little montage of the you know the beauty and the wonder and I maybe I'm I don't know maybe I'm getting more cold-hearted as I get older but I don't know I just didn't I just didn't buy into it and yeah that's interesting you describe it as sort of like a whitewashing of the period with me what kind of got me into it was how it felt like kind of a genuine convincing period piece and that it was selling the the kind of lonely isolated nature of it and that's what kind of made it perilous and interesting to watch for me was it felt like this is cold this is a brutal uncairing well that's being presented and doesn't really feel like it's romanticizing it particularly to me it was almost the complete inverse actually oh wow yeah and going back to where I think what the film is overall saying about like kind of rapid expansion and this idea of industrialization and what was going on with steel and trains and how quickly things have moved especially in the last couple hundred years I thought that kind of sense a perspective that it ends on that bullet point and so it was like very very effective and gave it a nice strong spine for the beauty of the cinematography to kind of be anchored around yeah I'm somewhere in between okay um yeah I don't know I really actually went in wanting to like it I heard very good things and I I heard it compared to Malik in some ways and I even like I love song to song like that's that's a Malik movie I really enjoy and night of cups and like later period like kind of wandering rambling kind of thing but experimental yeah yeah and like this had some beautiful moments but it never felt like specific enough in a way where I'm like this is a person who I who feels like a real person rather than I guess a an avatar for the audience to admire a period of history and to kind of like feel the romanticism of a period that is gone and won't come back and not kind of belonging for that and I guess I I prefer to look at that period in history with a I don't know like a sense of kind of like things were were very like brutal and like I don't know I don't know it's hard for me to articulate it I guess and I have more thoughts I need to process but yeah yeah just didn't connect with me I think it can be both to me to me it is it's a film that doesn't like completely ignore you know the hardships but still manages to find you know beauty and tranquility and peace within it so that's kind of why I feel like I'm halfway is I I do feel like it acknowledges both but like for the sake of its artistic and emotional stylistic goals like it is definitely much more of a dreamy you know peaceful experience and one that is like a montage I'll agree that the ending montage did feel fucking kind of cheesy and phony for me like to me it just the emotions did feel little like like oh yeah we're we're making it end now sort of thing yeah and the narration did a lot to also like turn me against the film because it felt very like I don't know, Pat, in oversimplified and a bit sentimental. - So yeah, I've seen a few complaints about the narrator, but I kind of like the texture added with this idea of things being out of time and the, just giving these little details to these characters that you'd never get otherwise without the narrator being like, yeah, he died of a heart condition that 30 years later was like, the cure was discovered for it. And there is this kind of deep sadness to it. And there were like a victim of circumstance is like where they are and how they are forced to live 'cause of the environment. And that's what really got me and emotionally early on especially, was this sadness which is emphasized by the structure of these big time jumps of this main character having to leave his little girl. And every time he comes back, it's like a different person 'cause he's a way for so long. And yeah, that was like quite emotionally affecting from the jump off, let alone where it kind of goes throughout the story. So yeah, I found it kind of edgy as heat stuff as far as stakes are concerned. - Yeah, I don't have like too much to complain about for this movie or to like be wowed ever. I think that in terms of how it presents itself, it is up my alley in terms of the vibe and the visuals and the sound design like very, very few complaints with that. I do see the similarities to Terence Malik, but yeah, I would just, I definitely see them as different things because this one's just, a lot more narrowatively straightforward, particularly than Terence Malik's recent films and even the camera work doesn't go. Like nearly as crazy as even Terence Malik's most narratively straightforward films. It is just something that kind of gets you to experience and feel the environment in a very sensory way. So in that sense, like yeah, there's similarities, but like, yeah, very different films with very different goals too. And what's interesting is this director made a film called Jockey before this, which I don't remember too much about, I was kind of like not really into it, but it was not like this in style. So I kind of like that he's experimenting and doing something very tonally different between projects. I do appreciate that aspect. - Yeah, I just, I wish I liked it more. I wish there was more specifically about like this guy. It did just kind of feel like he was like an avatar for the audience. And I wish like I could, I just wish I knew like what the movie is really trying to say. It just kind of felt like, I guess quote unquote like a tone poem and like a meditation on life and what does it all mean? And it really wants to get to some kind of catharsis and it's very self-consciously is trying to be like, we're getting there. There's this feeling, this break, especially towards the end of the film or it's like it's all building up to this. And I just, I feel like it's reaching for something and not really grabbing it. And I guess I admire like the intention behind that and wanting to reach for that, but I feel like it fails there. - Yeah, I just, I felt like it didn't have extremely strong, like specific narrative goals and in some senses. But I do like that, I do like the hell back in reserve nature. So yeah, I guess what it's trying to be, I think that it did a good job at being that just with some minor criticisms. - I like William H. Macy. - Yeah, there were a lot of nice psych characters that just kind of showed up and disappeared and got to see like glimpses of their lives. And they all felt real and developed and interesting like all of these side characters that we don't spend much time with. They don't feel like unnecessary, terribly presenting characters or anything. - Is it okay if I talk about a quick spoiler about the beginning of the film? - Sure, I don't know if this is a movie you can spoil too much, but yeah, good for it. - Yeah, and we'll wrap this up quick too, 'cause we got another huge movie to talk about. - Yeah, sure, yeah. - Like an example of the difference, I guess, in tone between this and the book. And again, I haven't read the book, just beginning, but this is an opening early scene in the book where there's a Chinese worker on the railroad who is accused of something and he's thrown off a bridge. And in the movie, our lead character, our guy, he just kind of passively watches it happen. And this kind of haunts him, you know, this guilt that he didn't do anything. In the book, he is actively participating in that. - Mm-hmm. - And it's like, it definitely gives a better insight into, like, you know, he's part of history, he's engaged in this, he's not like a, just an empty kind of guy, just kind of like observing what's going on, like a forced-gump character. He's there. And the guy they try throwing off the bridge, he doesn't die, he like escapes, he like clings onto the bridge and flees. And so apparently for the rest of the book, he's kind of haunted by like, what if he comes back and tries to kill me? (laughs) - Wow. - Oh, okay. - So it's a very different vibe. - Yeah. - That helps me understand your whitewashing comment a lot more, because yeah, that does feel like, that was probably left out because that would just be too challenging for like the average fucking, just make him look like shit, Netflix watcher, to be able to grapple with like, wait, this is a good guy? I'm supposed to like this guy? Where is that, yeah, that would be more interesting for sure. - I think maybe it also like appeals to this idea of like, especially, we're living through history ourselves. And it's like how morally culpable are we in crimes being committed, and how, you know, it's just, again, I might have half-baked thoughts on this, but I think it changes significantly like how you are interpreting this. And like what it's saying about our lives, our responsibilities, how we choose to see ourselves as participating in the world, you know, so I don't know. - But yeah, it also got me thinking about like, get my own life, the idea of progress, and what's our equivalent of getting in a plane and experience something so, so just out of your world? - Freak adventure. - This character, the world is born into, and until he lived that time and the progress that he lived through and that change is quite extraordinary. So that visual of him, this character, everything he's been through, the torment and the hell that he was born into and experienced, to then have these ideas of space and flying. It's like, symbolically very powerful and very freeing. And thought-provoking, 'cause yeah. Yeah, well, is our equivalent plane thing gonna be of it's gonna be so even crazier, probably. - I love learning about this like period in history though, 'cause it, I love it. - It is, like so wild to think of like, like there's this anecdote I read, I think it was in like about the building of the Brooklyn Bridge, and there's this little girl who was like, when she was an old woman, some reporter Astra, like what was it like seeing men on the moon in 1969? What was that like? And she's like, this was nothing compared to when they built the Brooklyn Bridge. Like I was there when that opened, that was insane. That was like going out of space for her. So just like that idea of progress, like how fast things are moving, that is just hard to even fathom, you know. And that kind of lack of law and order, the lawlessness of this time. I really like that scene where a lot of the drama between Joe Legerton and his wife is just trying to figure out how they can spend more time together. So she suggests at one point, why don't I just come with you and like live on, you know, the camp, and he's like, it's too dangerous. Like it's fucked out there. - So that also feels to me like a very modern sensibility. You know, like I don't know if I'm projecting there, but it did seem like they had like a very modern type of lifestyle and idea about being together, and it's like their kind of relationship was felt very modern. And I don't know, I just feel like people of that era would have a different, I feel like the filmmakers were kind of projecting our modern moral views onto that type of a little bit. - Probably. Yeah, I'm sure that's true. - I think that happens a lot. That's a lot of things. - I'm sure, yeah. - I guess yeah, the sensibility you're getting at just wound up working better for me. I am a sucker for these Viby movies, these slower kind of thought-provoking things. - Perfect days. - Yeah, yeah, I love perfect days. - It was beautiful. I mean, the images are beautiful. - Yeah. - So I just like sitting in it and thinking about it and it worked really well for me. And going back to the kid, I thought the kid acting was actually really good and convincing on the way it was shot. I wasn't brought out for the film from this like little kid actor. I thought that was really well done. - Adam, did you hate the kid? - I'd have to go back to my notes and I would have to find them, I don't remember. If I didn't say anything about the kid and my tip for you, then I didn't have anything to say. - Okay. - Nice. - All right. - Seven out of 10. - Correct? - Yeah, slightly about this. Like a full star. Hopefully watch it again. Love the brevity of it. Felt a lot of meaning for it. - Five out of 10. For now. Oh yeah, all right. What's next? Time to get castrated. Oh Castration movie anthology one traps Although the title is like recently changed. Yes, that's still the name. It's like something else now Yeah, what is it called because the version I saw wasn't called traps. It was good. No, yeah Let's see if I can The other title is more of a mouthful. I kind of like traps a better title But you know, maybe all the I think it wait. Let's see letterbox. Maybe we'll have it letter box Yeah, maybe maybe on I've got it It was the fear of having no one to hold at the end of the world Yeah, and this is worse than the worst title in my opinion because it's too long Yeah, no, I understand what it's saying with the second title, but we don't want we don't want it to be as much of a mouthful I think I think the the name and word traps also Helps to sell it in terms of like You know, it's kind of like edgy or sensibilities as well Right, yeah, and like that that does tie into the fork and forechan culture thing too True I do just like the title of castration movie unlike the posters with the graffiti and everything is like that's that's a cool title There's something attention grabby and exactly like a branding Yeah, no, there was something that backened me to this film somebody posted about it on my subreddit a while back Yes, how you found it? Yeah, yeah, somebody posted on my subreddit and you know, I'll I'll add things to my list or whatever but I go to the IMDB page and I'm like, okay, first of all title crazy title Run time crazy runtime volume one Yeah, and then like the description trans sex worker Michaela mentors are newly outfriend Adeline while pursuing motherhood in Vancouver Right and so it's just like okay, we got trans we got Vancouver we got fucking Bold choices and just like obvious confidence about what it is and then you watch the trailer I'm like okay, this thing thing looks like a fucking home video like okay, what is this? It's got like good user ratings. It didn't have that many Especially at the time and so yeah, I just I was like okay Something is is beckoning me to check this out now rather than Having it stay on my watch list for fucking forever because it seems like it would be something at the very least I would find it interesting, right? Mm-hmm and yeah, I wound up loving it. It's a I've seen it I Guess two and a half times. Whoa, and I just saw the sequel actually a couple nights ago. Oh I'm interested to talk here about that. Yeah, I guess we can talk about that after we talk about the first part. Yeah, let me know Yeah, what did you think of castration movie anthology one traps? Alex go ahead Sure, um, I'm still breaking this down. Okay, honestly I watched this yesterday in one chunk which uh nice I don't know I would have preferred to actually broken up. I wish I'd broken up You didn't because I don't know there's a four and a half like our runtime here, which is the biggest like How's this gonna flow type thing? I think it is my biggest issue with the movie is I don't understand the runtime being that long but in saying that There is something unique and great in here with It's with like a level of like awkwardness. I can't believe it's not British Yeah, well some of these scenes are able to To get some of these arguments this like feeling this overbearing kind of anxiety to a lot of it It's really effective especially for That miniscule micro budget that it was made for because that's obviously one of the biggest fears is like The lower the budget goes the acting quality the sound quality That's really some of the biggest things that can hold something down, but it uses these things in its strength. I found for the most part often carried by Really good dialogue and performances a lot of the time So I don't know I feel like a kind of mixed experience with the structure of it there being kind of three parts to this I really loved the first one and felt like it was kind of losing some momentum as it was moving around and It was like big and ambitious and messy But I feel like they needed some been more editing in here to Focus this a little bit even though maybe that broadness is what makes it what it is I'm still trying to figure that out and how it fits into part two and three this being this enormous probably gonna be like 14 hours long in the end like story whatever it turns out to be Those are my general and a top level thoughts and extremely hard sell as well as far as like Explaining it to somebody and like Getting the the movie out there and the concepts out there The people that they're seeing it. It's really connecting with I think Be able to you Jake I was Really Into this I really thought this was I didn't really know what to expect going in but it was just it really captivated me from like scene to scene Because of the sense of authenticity like it just felt so so authentic Like you're really getting a sincere look at a Culture and group of people who are living this and know it so well, and it it isn't like trying to Perform for an out group or something like it felt very much like this art about them for them And that was like so You know seeing the trans experience in a this way is it's it's it's really unique and so It just holds no bar like it's really very sincere and Funny and deeply uncomfortable in in a lot of it That being said it is like a test it was a test of my patients for it being as long as it is and like There is so much that's like Holy shit like this is this is so long like some shots are just so long and so drawn out and I'm like fuck Okay, like I had to take it in chunks and because I was getting sleepy, you know I was like, but that's just me with any movie like it is hard to just stay awake these days, but except avatar Yeah, well, yeah It's just similar because if this was in 3d This movie is very like transgressive and and very like shit There's stuff in this I've never seen in any other movie and for that alone I have to like appreciate it, you know, there's like bodily fluids and you know, I don't know what I can say on YouTube, you know with Content stuff, but Pink flamingos kind of stuff I think like I'm just to like Impressed about how it came through like these people who like Art like there's like are they improvising like I don't know like I want to know more about how this was made like how much was Yes, I'm improvising rift and how much was planned and premeditated and like some of the choices and the the structural choices like the fact that the whole first Bunch of this movie is like this guy just Going on this doom spiral and like destroying his life and then it becomes about all these other characters for the rest of the movie and Like the dynamics are so interesting and I was just like so Immersed in this world in a way like I didn't expect and even though like it was a struggle sometimes to be like Fuck I'm just like my patients. I was like going elsewhere. I'm getting kind of tired It's like when a scene would like kick up a notch, you know, and they're like arguing about Why didn't you read doing like why like why like that moment and just like why are you like? Why don't you want to wear the dress? I want you to wear like I know better than you because I've been trans longer than you You know, it's like you need to listen to me like these are things like I haven't thought about and seeing it You know depicted on screen just felt like shit like this feels so real and authentic and so interesting so I I'm very happy you recommended this Adam good. I had a Really good time Yeah, this was this was great. Yeah, honestly like the way The way I feel about this maybe so the second time I watched it I watched it all in one chunk and I found it to be like Pretty easy to get through like maybe some Points in the second half where I was like okay little slow But yeah, I mean like it's a four and a half hour long movie that To me felt much quicker than like Thor 11th under You know like Any number okay like real no, I'm not I'm not I'm literally not even kidding Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a crazy ambitious project That you know now that I've seen a few times for sure I do very much get like this thematic purpose in terms of the choices to make things in that way. Or at least I have my own interpretations. And yeah, like it's a type of film that is not shy of its own limitations, but instead uses them as, you know, as its selling point. It knows exactly what it is. It shoves it in your face. And I just, yeah, the fact that there is enough of a culture behind this film, people are excited for it, people are excited for the new ones to come out. And who knows the extent of how popular it will be over time. I think it's already, you know, what we could consider to be like a cult film sort of thing. Yeah, she's like in the UK right now touring part two. I think it's super fucking cool that there's a good chunk of people that are excited for a type of art project that is unlike any other that has existed. Right. I want to see new things. This is a new thing. And it's not just a new thing. It's a new thing with purpose. It's a new thing that knows why it's doing new things. It's providing not just perspectives but experiences that, you know, you're right. Are incredibly authentic. And, you know, when we think about trans representation in media in any sense, there's absolutely nothing like this that showcases and doesn't shy away from things like surgery and like aftercare for said surgery and like these thoughts that. Feel leading up to it and everything. Yeah, yeah. The fears and anxieties and concerns leading up to it. The thoughts in these characters heads about, you know, like their own psyche, their own introspection is kind of put on display and varying different degrees and varying different ways. The fact that these characters just, you know, despite being trans in a film, there's no concern over how these characters are portrayed from a moral standpoint. They don't have to be, you know, perfect angel, goody-touchy people and they don't have to be villains, you know, like. They can be complex, flawed people and just exist in ways where you're right. Like it's not concerning itself with audience members outside of its own demographic and that's how it's able to be so unashamed and unafraid of what it is. Yeah, like that's, that's what I really appreciate about it. And it reminded me in some ways and this is like unfair to be like, "Oh, this other trans thing that I am aware of, you know, but it did remind me of the book, "The Transition Baby." I don't know if you guys are, it's like a literary sensation a few years ago. But, you know, the author, Tori Peters, talked about how she wanted to write a book, you know, about trans people for trans people. That wasn't like concerned again with like the outside world and it's like, from what I've seen, it seems like any depiction of trans people in media and film and the history of film, it's like either horrible, you know, just abominable. Or like so whitewashed and simplified and like, you know, target version, you know, that's like, you can't talk about the, like not even real people, just symbols of people, you know. And getting to see something like this, that is very much, it's also very Vancouver. Like it's very clearly about these people in specific, like I think anything that makes art, it's so much better when you're looking at the specifics, you know, and like the specific details. And the little details and this is what makes it so unique. And you know, I was doing research and seeing that there was criticism of this because there's, you know, people of color in this, really. And you know, that's an interesting thing. But it's also like a very Vancouver perspective. And from what I understand, you know, Luis was making this with her friends and, you know, with limited funds. You know, so it's like interesting to see what could come about, you know, from this filmmaker. And I really want to see more from her. Yeah, there wasn't exactly much of like a casting call. That's what it seemed like to me or like a production even. Right. Which is shocking for how good these performances are. Yeah. A lot of these arguments and stuff. It was like, almost like this is England for some of these like arguments and stuff like that. It was like, nice, this is a really realistic. And as you guys are saying, sincere, which even beyond the core of the trans experience, I found the integration of like 4chan and the internet stuff to be quite awfully done. Because that could be its own light. If that was done the wrong way, that could be super like Gringy or embarrassing. Well, and also that's a lot of ways like universal, not just to trans people, but like this version inside of the internet. That is just like self hatred, pure self hatred, you know. Relatable. Like being radicalized and being pushed and pushed in certain directions from, yeah, what you're looking at or you're obsessed with online. And it's hard to take that like 4chan energy and what it represents and do that honestly and apply it to characters that feel real and don't feel like a caricature, you know, the hackenon is 4chan type just over the top bullshit. Of course. Yeah, I really like that element of it. Yeah, like things that can only come from like being a part of an experience, like you're not, you're not like someone's fucking grandpa trying to teach kids about the dangers of the internet sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. It was like, oh yeah, this thing like this is the we're just going to include it. Yeah, there were moments in this movie that made me so upset, like so completely sad, like specific moment. I don't know. Are we getting into spoilers? Sure. We can spoil it. Everybody watch it. Also, not only watch it, it's fucking like $3 on Gumroad for both movies. Yeah. Castration movie, Gumroad, search it. Yeah. It's so cheap. Yeah. So Luis's character, I forgot what her character's name is. Michaela. Michaela. And also traps, depending on the nickname traps. Right. So her relationship to her boyfriend, you know, throughout this movie is so painful and it's like, but her character is so like fleshed out, so well realized that even though it becomes ameless and kind of directionless, like from the get go, you're like, oh, she's kind of a bully. Like she's not like a nice person. Like she's kind of the life of the party, but so deeply flawed, you know, kind of like telling her friend, like, oh, just a little bit of a story. And like, oh, just what was it called, transmaxing? Yeah. You just need to transmax. It's like so funny. And she's like, no, you have to do this. And he's like, I don't want to do this. It's not fun. It's not fun. No. And we're having fun. And so like you see this side of her where she's like this, this energetic force, like this force of nature. And I love characters like that. I like watching any, are like reading about characters that are like a force of nature in themselves. But, you know, deep down, like she's like, has that like again, like browing. Browsing for a chance at the end of the day. And her relationship to her boyfriend, like at the end when she gets on her knees and begs him, this guy who's basically like treats her like dirt and is like, I just one more night. Just and just hold me. You know, like it is so, so devastating. It's so sad to watch that. But it just felt brutally like honest. It was kind of incredible. Nicely balanced against that humor. Yeah. Super dark humor. And very, I don't know if you guys have seen Peep Show or the British, like one of the best sitcoms ever. No. It's, yeah, on a level of like awkwardness and like a, you know, intentional cringe-worthy kind of like setups, like a sitcom. Like some of these scenes are so unbelievably awkward, you know, that you mentioned the do-know argument and the track character just getting trapped in this fucking situation. But they don't want to be there. They've got to get to work. And it's like, well, these kind of awkwardly relatable sitcom moments that feel organic in the way they just kind of manifest with these different scenes of them interacting. And especially I keep going back to that first 90 minutes. But the character dynamics there, I really loved with this kind of relationship with boyfriend and girlfriend, and falling apart and having these awkward interactions with each other and it just kind of escalating. And the whole picture of it being the in-sell Superman, and opening on this Superman speech. There's like really long speech and it just being kind of gut punch with it. What do you fucking talk about dude? And just developing this in-selly guy and his. After he breaks up and he starts like shadow boxing and writing poetry and stuff, and it's just something so fascinating about this dude. And some of his quotes, "I'm the great machine, you're the little machine." And then like crashing out and everything. I found that to be a fascinating character to watch where I was kind of disappointed that it did change focus to such a degree. And I hope there's more on that character in the second and third parts maybe. None of these characters are in part two, but there are characters returning for part three. Okay, I'm extra curious then. So is there a thematic through line for this? Like some. Do you see like more of it a shape to it after some time? seeing pot two? - I mean, depending on your interpretation, like people have made connections, but I mean, they're all independently, like as their own projects for sure, they're all independently purposeful. And yeah, I would say that there are ways in which there are through lines thematically, just, I'm gonna continue watching to see them develop for sure. - Can I read my interpretation of that whole beginning section? - Yes. - To me, that's like a prologue or just like a thematic prologue to this world and environment where it's like, this guy is like deeply repressing. Like I think that guy is trans, that person is trans and is repressing, but is like not even aware of it. And I think that whole sequence is trying to like show that pain and like kind of ground it there before you get to more of like this. I don't know, like it just, I feel like it's kind of important for setting up the tone of the thing. I mean, though I would have liked to see more like narratively what happens to this person. - Yeah. - I feel like this person is like, could be lots of other characters in this movie if they hadn't transitioned or something like that. - Yeah, there is definitely like a common through line of like self hatred for sure. - Yeah. - Which is, you know, a big problem, especially in queer communities. You know, it's a struggle that not everybody has to go through. Yeah, one thing that I came to terms with on my second watch was, you know, the fact that Michaela's character, or sorry, that Michaela, you know, she's going through her own transition, but doing it in a way that's entirely outside of the system where she didn't have to like wait for doctors. She's like getting these estrogen injections like online and from Ukraine, right? Or like through a front, I forget exactly how. But like not through the proper medical system without any doctor approval and wait time and all that. And I think that that thematically ties into how the film is made in the sense that like, you know, there's some people where to do something that's important to them. Like you can't wait for everything to be lined up and have everything in the right place. There's some people where it's just going to be like, "Fuck it, I'm doing it." And we're going to accept all of the risks and drawbacks of doing it in this way without, you know, the proper channels. And that's what this movie is, is just like, yeah, the entire film is DIY. The entire film making experience the music even. It's all just, hey, we're doing it. And we're doing it outside the system. We're doing it our own way. That's the experience of a lot of queer people, even not considering, you know, the transitioning or like getting estrogen and doing your own injections, even not considering that like queer spaces are all products of queer people carving out those spaces and doing things themselves. Like the whole free community, conventions and, you know, like the types of environments that we create are ones that we decided are good for ourselves and nurture the things that we like and are free from the things we don't like outside of those spaces, right? Like every queer community has those things. And so yeah, in that sense, it does speak to a very kind of universal sentiment among people that don't exactly feel like they fit in with the rest of things. - Right. Yeah, I mean, I like how every person, every character in this movie is going through things uniquely and differently. Like there's no just like one narrative of this, is like you transition, this is what you do, blah, blah, blah. Like you said, like some of them are, you know, getting drugs through a friend or going through the medical system, et cetera. So like, yeah, it was just so, so varied on a lot of different like insights there. And I watched an interview on YouTube after watching this with, it was an interview with Louise and she said something that was like, you know, at the end of it, it's like you need to have like self love is like the key to doing anything positive in the world. Like if you don't have that little, that even finding a little bit of self love, that's like the key. And I feel like this movie is about that, is like finding self love and how do you navigate that. I also think it's about like, you know, the idea of transitioning and these characters transitioning, that is not like, you're still a flawed person, you still have these problems, you just don't see that in media in the same way. Like, you know, the old, I believe in trans rights and trans wrongs, you know, that kind of thing. Right. And just saying that was just so refreshing and interesting. Yeah. And to even acknowledge the existence of people that, you know, saw their own transition in a way of like, trying to fix problems about themselves and thinking it would fix other like emotional problems or make their lives better or, you know, what even acknowledges like the idea of a character that might like pressure someone into transitioning. Right. These are things, these are topics that are just like so touchy that's just most people would just be afraid to even include them in a film. Like from this film and the sequel, there's types of characters that like, if you describe this in a reductive way without any nuance and you're just describing like, the base like beat by beat plot or like type of character, you might even say it in a way where it sounds like an anti-trans movie, you know. Right. Right. Right. Right. But it's not concerned about that because the authenticity is present and notable, right? Just from it expressing itself. Right. I mean, from what I understand, it seems like there are of course going to be trans people who are like, we need to like, why are we showing people? Why are we putting this out there? It's going to draw a negative, you know, or anything like that. But I feel like that's the case with a lot of like, perhaps, you know, people who are like concerned about, especially when they're being targeted and there's so much hatred, you know, it's kind of brave, I think, to put something out this, like this out there and really put it all out there. And I feel like to me, it just felt like a big, you know, like it has so much empathy in there. And there's at least for me, it gave me so much empathy for, you know, trans people and what's going on. And like, I think anytime you can show people's humanity authentically like this, that's not just like, not just like doing something good in the world, it's just like, it's good art. Like that's what makes good art. So, yeah. Yeah. It is, it is very much like kind of an exercise and like radical empathy even. Yeah. Yeah. Which is something I connect with. And I'm sure there's stuff like, I know there's lots of stuff that I probably went way over my head that, like, you know, jokes or, you know, sure. various things. But to me, that also makes it more interesting is I'm just like absorbing everything happening in the film. And, you know, it weirdly felt very like cinematic because I like that. I wonder how different it would be if it was shot like in high definition, and it was like in an iPhone or something, because I do think the old kind of camcorder look, it feels kind of timeless. Like, in a remind me of like a Lars von Cheerfilm or it feels like it's trying to bargain back to that look. So it does to like, my mind reminds me of like, Art House films from like 2000. Early 2005. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But the way the camera is actually used in the dialogue scenes as well, the way it will linger on someone, let the performances kind of just sit and feel like organic and natural and solid. And I don't know. Part of this is what is kind of for a strength about my core critique with this, where I love, I think every single character in this and I'm intrigued by their character drama. I love what they're talking about and seeing their world, like manifest. But I was kind of contrasting it with Jean Delman, Delman. Jean Delman? And the idea. Jean Delman. And yeah, the idea of purposefully kind of frustrating you or boring you as part of the artistic kind of expression baking it into the cake. And I just, unlike in Delman, I didn't really feel that for some of these shots here that were like, just lingering. I don't know what I really learned about the character or move the story along when I see traps like brushing a teeth in the shower for like four minutes. And then again, later on. I get it like builds atmosphere and mood, but I feel like that that was actually a strong suit of the film Anyway, and I guess it's that balance of your pure unadulterated vision and what you want that to be And they are dear of like yeah, maybe maybe you could trim this down you could now Focus it because I don't know For me that was Something that was making it especially in the second half where I was feeling the fatigue more of it Yeah Especially after losing that momentum of the That first 90 minutes where I was like really sold and I was like cool as this going And then having to build all up again and then it being four and a half hours, I don't know As a full package I found it valuable and expressive and important, but um That did hurt it so overall I guess entertainment value if you want to call it that or just has a package for me I agree. I think that the pacing issue is like a main flaw to this at least for me like I do think it would be so much more impactful and stronger if Some of that was cut, but only for normies. I don't know Adam. What is your I do feel like it's a normie filter You like like exactly the barrier to entry is important, but I feel like it doesn't need that I feel like it's just like putting on airs a little bit anytime. It takes that direction No, it makes it so that the people watching or the people that like really want to be watching It's a balance right because you yeah, you want that for sure that are getting a lot out of it That is making it connect yeah in a way that it might not be able to otherwise But also I feel like the idea of that's one of the great things about art rights to communicate experiences that aren't yours And when it is true and can connect It doesn't really matter what the subject is like something that is true and emotional and important could Wake some people up to like some of these experiences and I feel like these characters are good enough in the drama And dialogue is good enough for that in some Form that would be people like open to seeing it by just I just feel like that packaging can Just present itself in a certain way which as you say isn't it is intentional But yeah, I just want more people to experience it I guess is what what my frustration at it lies. I'm with you completely I want more people to watch and I think even if it was like a three hour movie that's still like you know what challenging runtime, but I think that's much easier to recommend to people than four and a half hours, you know Yeah, well, you know, it's It's challenging to recommend for sure, but I mean the content itself is child I mean, there's you know when you have scenes of someone peeing on you know, there's there's so much That would be challenging regardless. Yeah, he's a nudity joking off sex. Yeah, I mean, it's like a John Waters film Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was thinking of pink women goes in there for sure. Yeah, I mean no, it's it's I do feel as though the runtime and pacing is like another reason why it's special I probably wouldn't have been as eager to check it out if it wasn't So ridiculous Just knowing like okay, like what the fuck is it what you know, you'd better be fucking confident About what you're showing if you're gonna do this right and it was it was I feel like it's still feel that way at three I was there, you know Hmm, I still I feel like I still feel like wow. This is a big swing even if it was three hours. No, those are rookie numbers Three hours of rookie numbers now. It's not like a competition It was like fucking how it was like two years ago It was like nine at a 10 of the fucking best picture knobs were like over three hours how many years ago was that? Like he's a rookie numbers now and it's like you know It's it's a long spanning Film project that isn't even done yet. It's released online You know I think she said somewhere like yeah, you can like watch it on your phone and parts or whatever the way I See it or the way I feel about it. It's something that is akin to like a mini series or a television series where Yeah, you know, it might not have the episodic breaks in the exact like okay It's been 49 minutes. We have to end this episode and then do a cliffhanger and then start the next one Sure, we might not have that but it is you know within anyone's grasp or or abilities to you know just pause and come back to it another time if they want In terms of I don't know pacing and length and interest. I mean like I've binged through longer shows than this film so Yeah, I don't see the runtime as a big Deterrent for me. I feel like yeah, it's a part it's a part of the charm for sure and one more time like way Way faster pacing for me in terms of my experience on this planet Then like 90% of Marvel shit Like it's just I'm actually interested and invested by what I'm seeing on screen so even even parts Like you mentioning her brushing her teeth or whatever That's not a very long scene sure you could say like oh is that necessary But when you're into the vibe and the aesthetic in the same way that to you Alex You know, you're going to be much more uh attentive and and comfortable and into watching something like train dreams or perfect days That's a type of voice and that's a type of vibe That you know a lot of other people might find boring and they might find like oh Oh, whatever the guys like not doing anything. What's this about you know sort of thing And if it doesn't connect with you it doesn't But this type of film and what it's expressing and the ways that it does connect with people It's that exact same analogy. It's it's It's not difficult to get through if you're If it's speaking to you on a personal level So yeah, the runtime does not heard it it makes it more interesting for me Yeah, I guess that's where I don't know I feel like it does actually connect with me on like a human character level There is just something about that tension of the I don't know I don't I just don't feel like it needs that um it does in saying runtime because it I don't know it's one my uh Most recurring critiques I would say like uh Is like runtime the films and you mentioned the difference between uh Yeah, I've been to like a mini series before But there is something about that structure um, I don't know if this was a three episode thing If that critiquity would even be fair in the same way, but it it it's not it's a it's a castration movie like it is Maybe it's not intended to be watched in one burst but it It can be it is um that is how the framing of the house presented to you Um where I would actually suggest to anyone like me who was gonna put off by a runtime Like that um If you just did one a day of like one of the three parts, I feel like that would be like perfect um yeah And maybe you wouldn't feel that momentum shift and I think that would flow a lot better um And maybe I'll do that for the the second part which uh So yeah, it's a shame we didn't have a little bit more time because I'd like to see that second one include that in Conversation or maybe you want in the future um sure Yeah, we could we could talk about it in the future because I yeah reading about what that second one looks like It's about um very intrigued how long is the second one it's longer Oh great and it's and it's only one chapter okay, okay, okay interesting and there is an intermission Okay, very interesting. I also love the second film And I believe that the things that you love about the first film are also going to be found for you in the second film But your criticisms are going to be more uh present I'm okay. I feel but maybe I could be surprised maybe maybe Maybe the Story and type of Environment in way it's presenting itself will be more entertaining for you in a way Yeah, if I read it is true Adam were you surprised that we liked us so much Um, I had no expectations really Huh I was I had it could have gone either way Okay, but yeah like the first the first film is like Easy to recommend to people in the sense that like I think most people Will get something out of one of the two stories at the very least Um yeah, the second film I don't it's more difficult to recommend for sure Well, okay, it's making me more intrigued. Well, yeah, so like the the The connections to like Doug Walker boldly flea thing They're not uh That wasn't a troll But it might not be explicit to Everyone who watches it in the way That I perceived it wow so it's it's definitely there That's what it is and there is I'm not gonna say or spoil but like there's like a there's reasons for it to be there in that way and I've found my Meaning from that already just from a first watch I Yeah, I've only seen it once I I want to say I like Part one better But who knows I'll maybe I'll watch this the second time and love it even more but yeah like I uh Very very interesting a lot of this one was filmed in New York. Okay, and um It has as what's this person's name? Ivy Woke? Who I know, yeah, I've heard of her. - Yeah, yeah. And her character's really funny in it. She's in Anora, she was in if I had legs, I'd kick you. She had a role in friendship. - Wait, so this was partially funded by the Canadian government, right? - I would be not surprised by that at all. I'm pretty sure it is, 'cause like arts, grants, and funding, pretty sure you can just, they're easier pass, they're kickstarts, or as well, a little something. Yeah, there was a kickstarter. - Oh, okay. - Yeah, probably a combination there. - But we can ask whatever we want. If we get Louise on the podcast, and at some point we could do that in January. - That'd be cool. - Yeah, that'd be cool. - No promises, maybe January, maybe February. But nice. - Yeah, very special, very unique experience. And also the fact that like, yeah, the second movie is also unique. Like it's not the first movie. It is in many ways, but it's not. - Oh, how does DACA, is it like DACA? - It is darker. - Wow, I go. - I-- - Interesting. - Yeah, I don't wanna spoil the, what to expect, really. - I mean, you say Doug Walker and I'm on board, so. - Yeah. - It's very weird. - But yeah, I saw one thing when I was looking at the wiki about like a framing that did seem very like, oh, that's interesting. - Yeah, I think that if you're having a similar pacing grievances, that probably the first two hours are going to be the most difficult for you, but then after that it will be fine. - Okay. - Cool. - Yeah, fuck, I love it. - Good luck. - You guys finally, you watched it, you were forced to watch it. - I know, you were forced. - Yeah. - Yeah, happy. - Good wreck. - Oh, thank you. - Yeah, I'm glad I watched this. Are we talking about another movie? We talked about so many movies today. - We had no, yeah, it's question time after this, but what's your rating for it? - Well, the ratings. - Oh, I'm gonna do seven out of 10. It's pretty good. - Yeah, I can be slightly low. Like a high, three and a half star. I feel like there's a full star movie in here somewhere. - Yeah. - It's kind of where I'm at. - Totally. - That's-- - But my experience is-- (laughing) - You said slightly lower, but high, three and a half stars higher than seven out of 10. - Sorry, high three stars, what I'm saying. - Okay. (laughing) - Yeah. - Do your fractions right? - Yeah, but I feel like there's a full star in there somewhere. - Okay. Yeah, I'm very curious what the both of you will think of part two, and now that you've started, you have sunken-cost fallacy, and you have to continue it till the end. - Yeah, I know. Yeah, I pretty good at downloading. I've come to you. - Nice. - I mean, yeah, you've already paid for it. - Yeah, my is all. - Watch it at your own leisure. 10 minutes at a time. (laughing) Take your couple months. Yeah, this is a eight out of 10 for me. Maybe I think for now I'm giving it a high eight out of 10. I might give it a nine at some point. - All right. - It's so special. It's so special, it's so unique. Like very culturally important and relevant, and just bold and daring and confident, and showed me something I've never seen before. It works. The choices are motivated and smart. It understands its own strengths and its weaknesses. It also uses as strengths, and it's crazy to have, yeah, like a good Vancouver movie that feels like Vancouver. Just, yeah, it's very special. Glad people are checking it out. - Yeah, check it out. I'm sure we get in the best picture now, do you think? - No. - Oh. (laughing) - That's too bad. - Yeah, well, that's generally how unique and daring and transgressive artworks is that the Oscars, doesn't know it exists and will never acknowledge it. - I'm scared of it, yeah. - Yeah. - I'm very curious about the distribution, like how financially successful has been given at this a kind of like a cult underground hit, it seems like, just intrigued. - Oh yeah, it's got legs for sure. - It's got legs. - And the fact that, you know, it's, the fact that it's so online focused that helps the conversations and the marketing of the film. And yeah, with each successive film, like by the time three and four are released, like it's got a good amount of momentum going. I would love to see one of these in a theater, although I do feel like both of them benefit from subtitles. - Yes. - There are some parts where it's like, "Okay, without these subtitles, I would be. " - You're really? - Yeah, 'cause I started watching it and the subs weren't working on my project. And I just had to stop it and move it to a different screen where it did work so I can't, I needed, yeah, subs. - I watched it on my fucking phone. - Good. - Yeah, just like funny games. All right, shall we get to questions? - Gorsh. - Oh, Gorsh. - So how has your week been, Alex? - It's been, I don't know, okay, week, I guess. I don't know, as I was saying earlier, December's just like, it's full of, there's no time. Just to get ready for everything, seriously. - Holiday stress is me out. I don't like it. - Same. - Yeah, it's just me out too. - Does anybody enjoy it? - Should we all just start? - We do it for the kids. I feel like one of them in it. Like, yeah, when the family's little together and stuff is like, okay, this is this one, but like, and there's a lot of stress. - Everyone is just, I mean, everyone's just trying to, like, get to the end of the year and like all the, I think honestly for me, it's like routine. I love routine. I like things being the same every week. And then it's like a whole month, starting with like Thanksgiving of things, like being slightly off and just trying to like, juggle time. Yeah. - You should move your Thanksgiving to October. - Yeah, I know. I celebrated Canadian Thanksgiving with you guys. - I celebrated my first American Thanksgiving this year. So I also had two Thanksgiving greetings. - But I do actually like, you know, spending time with my family. So just made them make that clear. (laughing) I like actually, you know, doing it. But, but, you know, the stuff around it is annoying. - Yeah. - Questions. - Yeah. - Okay, let's do some questions then from the Southern and the Coast community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit. If you wanna leave questions for future episodes, just like JoJo's crazy Reddit did. Now, a few people lost about this. What do you guys thoughts on the acquisition of the Warner Bros. buyout deal between Netflix and Paramount? - Here we go. - Not only are we having Trump make the decision for whether Netflix should buy it or not, but Paramount is making a hostile takeover bid for Warner Bros. discovery, valued at around a hundred and eight billion. And just recently, as I'm writing this, there were already rumors spreading that Netflix considered buying EA, Fox, and even Disney before the buyout of Warner Bros. What could this mean for the future of cinema as this monopolistic situation seems to be becoming more egregious than ever. So this is the latest one. And the really boring game of monopoly where everything is just becoming like three or four companies that own everything. How's it legal? I don't know. But here we are. I, so, it's so funny, 'cause like David Zaslav just seems to have, you know, kind of just, destroyed the reputation of Warner Bros. over. - Really quickly. - A few years. Like, oh, and then we're changing the name to like Max and then changing it back and like nothing, it doesn't seem like very smart calculated businesses decisions, like the shareholders voted against him getting like a fucking paid bonus. - Yeah. - So it's like, you know, the shareholders are feeling it. Like they're pissed at him. Just a guy making just what he feels to be smart business decisions and none of these decisions involve art in any way. - No. - They don't involve any sort of like importance on art or preservation of art, you know, having films be written off as tax. - Well, it's like IP. - Just tax write-offs. And then never premiering them ever and they get lost to time and become lost media. Even if the film is bad, that's a bad thing to do. You can't be fucking presiding over an art company when you don't give a shit about art. - And so yeah, whoever wins, we lose, who gives a shit, I don't care. (laughs) - Any positives to be drawn from it? - No. - I don't think of any. - No, I mean, there are people who are like, well, this is better than Paramount because Paramount is like, you know, siding up to Trump and getting on his good terms and stuff. And it's like, what do you think Netflix is? going to do to get this deal to go through. Because Trump is basically holding the cards here. The FCC has to approve this. It's just such a horrible situation and really depressing. It's also the perfect neoliberal outcome of, I think during Trump's first term, there was the solution that the companies are in the corporations and the billionaires are we have a system of norms and we're going to follow them. Now, we're going to cozy up to Trump and we're going to make sure that he's happy with us and we're going to get what we want and do all sorts of heinous shit to fat and our pockets. You look at the quotes from the CEO of Netflix. Who's it? Elison, David Ellison. I don't know. The ones with the cinema's a dead stuff. Yeah, he's saying what we're doing with Netflix and with showing movies at home is like we're just giving the consumers what they want. And the consumers don't know shit. They don't know what they want. And also it's just like you're, it's the same tech bullshit. I fucking hate the tech industry and how they try to revolutionize things that don't like Uber. It's the same fucking thing where it's like let's revolution it. Let's revolutionize right share apps. Let's get rid of cabs with all these unions and having to pay money. And we can just get people to use their own cars and go into debt fixing their fucking cars so that they can make not, not a livable income driving people around and say that this is better for everyone somehow. And it's fucking, uh, uh, atrocious, you know, and that's what they're doing with movies. It's like let's reinvent movies so that we can make no money ultimately because like where's the profit system here? Like, okay, like even with Netflix, I feel like they are like hiding the fact or trying to like deny themselves the fact that you can make money with movies, you know, and putting movies out theatrically like with the fucking K-pop demon hunters. Like even they put out that like briefly because it's like that's just money on the table that you're it's just stupid. It makes it's it's it's so stupid and bad and it's just kind of fucking hurt movie theaters even more. It's bad. Well, yeah, we're just in this situation where we've let like Uber's a good example. Amazon and Netflix are other examples where they kind of use the business model against everyone where they figured out, okay, we we we we structure these businesses and run them at a loss. Yeah. So long that we just soak up the market. Okay. Now we own everything. Now the price is rock it up. And like there's no competition. So there's nothing anyone can do. And it's like, okay, how does that help any consumer? All we're going to see is prices go up because now like, I mean they bought a significant chunk of Hollywood in the market of cinema. As far as like the the biggest movies of the year, they just bought up like a quarter of like the biggest shit that's coming out. It's it's I don't know what is even the point of antitrust if this kind of stuff can happen about the same way when Microsoft bought Activision and the EA stuff that went down. I don't understand how this is even like legal at a certain point. It's the gilded age. It's literally it's just the gilded age and there's going to be hopefully at some point of backlash and like something to try to but it's going to have to get worse before it gets better. And like, you know, movie into the movie theater industry as we know it is it's just going to suffer and potentially die and just going to be like a niche thing. I've heard people talk about it. Like it's going to be like going to a play or going to a a concert, you know, to like see something theatrically in certain cities, you know, and it's not going to be available all over anymore. And it sucks. It's really sad. I'm just never going to get over the fact that like all of these, you know, like the most popular fucking media commentators are all these like weird like culture war type people. Has been going shit. Yeah. And like here here is like one of the most obvious prominent examples of a person making decisions that are anti art. And, you know, they that that was their claim against people like Kathleen Kennedy, right? Who they make like a trillion videos on. Yeah. And you search these exact same channels with the term David Sasslaff. And they either have no videos or the few are talking about how he's like based and have him like. Yeah. And like using using the exact same like Hillary losing a screaming person in the thumbnail. So like one of the titles right here, David Sasslaff attacked by woke mob after Warner Bros. cancellations, Batgirl actor demands release as if like these wokesters want a movie released. And this based guy is saying no tax right off. Right? And so now like I just I just did a search at a curiosity. I'm like, okay, are they even going to mention this fucking murder thing? It appears as though these people and there's very few of them even bothering to make this argument because it seems very silly. There's very few people doing this. And the argument is now David Sasslaff will have the last laugh on the Warner Bros. Netflix Paramount bidding war. And I've seen people make this argument very few. But they're saying no, because because they're selling it for more than it was valued. So like it's like more money. So even though like the value of the company tanked because of him. Yeah. But they're like selling it for more. Yeah. So like he was playing 40 chest the whole time just like Trump. Of course. He's based. And you know, like you guys are saying like Netflix was at running at a loss for years just so that it could carve and literally just like destroy a section of the industry. And not not not only just like in terms of like crewing wealth or getting viewers, it was like getting validity in the industry. You know, when all of these Netflix muggish getting the prestige and getting nominated for Oscars. And that was like a huge strategy, especially for all the streamers. And still isn't a lot of ways, you know. And James Cameron, I know, I know Adam, you have certain feelings about him. But I think he had a great quote recently where he said that Netflix shouldn't qualify for Academy Awards if they're not actually showing the movies theatrically and not just like a two week window or something. I think that's great because I think that would motivate Netflix and studios to actually put their movies into theaters and have them play. And like I think it's a stupid loophole that they can just show Frankenstein for two weeks or a week. And then it's like, okay, now we can get nominated for an Oscar. When really it's like, is that not just a TV movie? Should that not be up for an Emmy? You know, it's weird. It's weird. And I think like there are so many mistakes and it's been like a slow motion disaster building and building and building and building. And now we're at this point. And it's just like, oh shit, like things are irreparably damaged. And it's just the, the ma of capitalism eating everything. And we're just kind of, then what can we do? You know, we just were watching these billionaires play with their little train toy set. It's gonna be like three left. Yeah. Actually, it's gonna be Netflix, Apple, Disney, universe. Yeah. It's like just every Sony. I mean, I did definitely cancel like the HBO, Max literally just because of decisions that I believe have to have been from him because they were just like, oh yeah, we're removing all of this shit for no reason close to the end of like a tax year. Right? I'm like, oh, these shows that I watched are gone and not available anywhere else. And this is stupid. And like, come on, come on. What are you doing? Like what, what am I paying for? I thought it was for the content library. Now you're saying, no, yeah. Actually, we don't want this on here. Yeah. So definitely. Yeah. Shivering truth is a great fucking show. Sorry. Why is it not there? Disgusting. Disgusting. There's one service left that has not been getting worse and it's only been getting better. And that's piracy. Oh, I was gonna say Apple. I've been going to Apple. Yeah. Apple probably is the best one as far as like quality per thing put on to it, which was more like a prestige thing. Apple. Apple to be, I like to be to be or not to be. Because like, but I don't think Apple, Apple's not like a market leader in the streaming space. It does just feel like, well, we're like a trillion dollar company. We might as well just have this prestige. You know, some of these get nominated for us because we got to say you work on a shit, whatever. Seriously worth us to do that. Yeah. They're acting like Netflix in the early days, where it's just let's just burn a bunch of money to try to get into this world. But this is also a huge blow for like physical media, you know, like, yes, yeah, Netflix. I mean, you have to be crazy to think Netflix is going to care about putting out all of the like Warner archive blue rays and restoring films like. No, no, it sucks. Yeah. Although like Netflix has had some deals with like criterion at points. Yeah. So it seems like they're like not as bad for that as like Disney because Disney just doesn't give a shit about physical releases and Apple also actually they haven't put out it like killers of a flower moon or you know, like, well, these companies they must have run the numbers right and yeah, and figured out that it's not even worth their time. Right. And it's more valuable to them to keep people as a subscriber than to get a little off the top from selling. - Yeah, I mean, if I'm-- - It's cool copies. - If I'm not gonna fucking own it, then I might as well pirate it. - Mm-hmm. It's weird that they don't get that. - Yeah, I mean, in the future, it's just, you don't own anything. You just rent everything and you don't, you know, you just keep paying constantly in perpetuity. And like, it's just, it's gonna be sad when it's just like all of this, culture, all these movies are just fading and not being shown anew to new audiences. 'Cause like, yeah, Adam, you can pirate things and find things and that'll be out there for dedicated fans and lovers of film. But, you know, for, you know, a teenager, like discovering movies and watching stuff, like on Netflix, how many movies are older than like, 1980 on Netflix that you can watch right now? Mm-hmm. Probably like two, you know? So it's like, if it's not being shown and curated to people, most people aren't going to like even discover it or seek it out. And it just makes it harder and harder to keep that alive, like in the culture and we're just like, making our culture worse. Yeah. Not to sound like an old man, but like, come on. No, I mean, yeah, that's why there's value in things existing outside of these spaces. Like castration movie is just doing its own fucking thing. Yeah, it doesn't need Netflix. It doesn't need, it doesn't need a lot of this shit. It's just like, okay, yeah, well, we're doing it and people are finding it. Well, yeah, hopefully the vacuum is filled by stuff like that. Yeah. Cool things happening in the culture. And you guys can fucking be mad about Disney movies, not, not being other Disney movies. Like I guess, kind of on a similar note, this is an interesting question from DHMO protection agency. Says, what are your thoughts on letterboxed video store where they're releasing some rare films in films without distribution to their platform to rent? Are you planning on using it? Do any of the films on the initial slate look interesting to you? So this is something I noticed was only yesterday, I think, 'cause on letterboxed and saw this new category on there where you can rent. It's pretty obscure films like directly through the Apple website, which I thought is actually quite a cool idea. Later, Max. On letterboxed, yeah, we can send you an article with some of the stuff that's on there. Yeah, if it's supposed to be the film, the film bro site, yeah, use that platform to get eyes on stuff people don't know about. Could use some more voices. More accessibility is better. I like things being available and if that is between that and it not being available, obviously it being available is great. You know what I like is that when you click on some of these titles, in fact, all the ones that I see available on, actually three out of four for the unreleased gems category, they say 4K. So they're not skimping out on the pixels. Nice. It ends in my watch list, so I'll probably watch that at some point. It's a weird time in movies 'cause there are so many unique lower budget films and filmmakers able to make things than ever before. And I think that's a big part of technology in the internet and some kind of democratization there where you can do that, but also it's so saturated in that, where there's so much new stuff. And also it's either the big budget stuff or the super, super low budget stuff. And I think we've talked about this where it's like, the middle is just falling out completely. And it's just probably gonna keep moving in that direction where we're gonna have one avatar movie, one Marvel movie, theatrically shown. Or maybe not, I mean, because again, like if you can't be making avatar movies, if a shit ton of people don't come out and pay money to see it, and if movie theaters are closing and dying, like unless there are, I think honestly, a lot of these studios are hoping AI is just gonna come in and fill in that and make things cheaper, make these big budget movies cheaper to make so that they can make things like avatar without paying people, you know? - Those are deal just announced, right? With Disney and I think it was Chapp GVD. - Yeah, something. - Something, some AI image. - It's gonna be integrated into Disney Plus. And yeah, obviously that's where it's gonna go. - Open AI, oh, Disney invested a billion dollars. - Open AI. Yeah, there you go. - Love it. Nice. - I love how there was a point where people were like, oh, Disney is gonna come after open AI for using their trademark. Oh wow, let's fight with Disney here. They're gonna beat the bad guys and it's like, no, they don't give a fuck about you. They're gonna make a deal. They're gonna profit off of this. (laughs) Oh yeah. Man, yeah, I feel like that's come up just time and time again on this podcast is this idea of just access to this stuff. It's so frustrating to me. How much money's just been left on the table with just the way this shit is being introduced to people will just cut off from people for the dumbest of reasons. Yeah, it's really frustrating. But I got this one from proper elephant 7762. This one's for Alex specifically. I noticed how Alex occasionally uses the financial success bad movies like Love and Thunder. And the Minecraft movie make as points against them, whether it's him ranking Minecraft on a 2025 letterbox list below Snow White, 'cause the former was successful, or saying that Love and Thunder are specifically egregious for being successful compared to other recent Marvel movies like Quantumania and Brave New World. I obviously understand that it can be frustrating to see a bad movie succeed financially, but don't you think it's a bit biased to view the success of a bad movie as a market ganked it? Surely the money made is separate from the quality over all. So you guys jump in if you agree or disagree, but I guess, yeah, they are like a separate thing. The money a film makes is not an indicator of quality, I don't think, but I do feel like a frustration at the industry consequences for something like a Minecraft being successful, 'cause it frames it completely differently, like more BS being a flop, a double flop, like only makes it funnier, makes the whole meme better. And the fact that it wasn't rewarded for that is some sort of weird like, "Carme Justice," whereas those bad habits are being enforced with something like a Minecraft movie, and that's more what I'm kind of opining about is the fact that it is successful, the fact that it's just teaching them that they don't need to try. And that they, like, yeah, does mediocrity or something straight up bad or a borderline like offensively, stupid can be a success. I don't know, it does feel like some justice linked in there when something gets as artless as a Minecraft than it being one of the biggest films of the year, even though it's not an inherent metric of quality, as far as money spent or money earned. Yeah. - How do you guys feel in that? - Well, I mean, I feel like none of us are, as much as we try like objectively viewing a work of art in isolation and judging it in that way, like all these things are going to factor into it. And especially if a movie like Thor Love and Thunder or Minecraft movie comes out, like it's going to influence like how much money it makes and the success, like, yeah, that could rub, you know, that's going to influence how you think about it because those are products. Like first and foremost, those are designed to make a shit ton of money. Those are designed for money that's not like a, there was a creative artistic goal beyond that. Like, I'm sure there are people who, I know there are people who work hard on those movies to make them as good as they can be or if they're trying, you know, in some instances. But ultimately, it's like, yeah, this is a business product. This is a product. Like you have to interpret that and factor that in as much as you want or try to filter that out as much as you can, I guess. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, a film's financial success doesn't really translate to its quality. For me, at all, really. Like, they're just entirely separate things, you know, some of the best movies in any year can be ones that people just didn't see. And that can exist for a variety of reasons. The idea that like, oh yeah, if a movie's good, people will see it. Like, that's not necessarily true. Like, it needs help. It needs word of mouth. It needs accessibility, right? It needs to be able to be shown in ways. You know, you can have a movie that nobody would have cared about otherwise be a success just because it was advertised properly and just because it was accessible and available and like the right actors were in it. But, you know, people watch it and then maybe they might not even like it and it'll just be like a, you know, a huge success that nobody likes. Like the fucking third Jurassic Park movie, like a billion dollars zero people liked that movie. Every single person came out of that movie and being like, that was shit. I like to. Jake liked the movie. It was shitty fun. Nobody else had fun. Just Jake. Yeah. All right. Lion King 2019, a billion dollars. People thought they liked it. Now nobody likes it. Nobody talks. Nobody even remembers it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't link to the quality. And it's influenced the direction that funding has gone. Uh huh. It's influenced the direction that the culture in the film culture has got. Like Disney just dumped. crippled, quadrupled down on these shitty remakes 'cause it became the most successful. - Yeah. - Highest grossing animated film of all time at the time. - Which is part of why I feel like, that's why it's interesting to bring it up as far as like, analysis or your feelings towards something that you have to be able to pick through like what is being talked about. I'm not saying played around a 20, 49 is bad because it didn't make money. Like I don't give a shit about that. But I think it's interesting to talk about like, okay, why did people not go out to that when it's on its face the most, like obviously it's like a remake of an 80s classic and there's a bit of it is separate. Nothing that's fine and both are valuable. - Yeah. - Should we do one more here? - One more. - Should we wrap this one up with this one from Arturini who says, people always talk about great movie scores or great video game soundtracks, but much less people seems to keep TV show scores in the same regard. What do you think, why do you think that is? What are your favorite overall scores or single music tracks from TV shows? Yeah, I'm not sure why that is. Like the Obis, you know, sopranos opening or the wire and breaking bad and that kind of thing. But there's some good aspects like, for me Dexter, I think it was an amazing soundtrack. (humming) Love the use of harp. It's just, it's just stayed as well in the consciousness. Like, sorry, are we talking about like movie, or like a TV show, Injuros or like the full score for the, you know, single track from a show or something that stands out to you, like something musical about TV specifically. Yeah, Dexter's a huge one for me. Absolutely love it. Such a strong identity. - Yeah, I feel like I'd have to like look through my TV show catalog to refresh my memory without a doubt for me a succession, Nicholas Bertel. - Yeah, that's a great one. - Sure, yeah. - And that's like a genuine like all throughout the whole. That's not just like the intro, soundtrack. Like it's very prominent and really like is, I think so important for like, - There's so much of the drama. - Yeah. - The way it's used, it's a needle drop. Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. - Yeah. - Severance recently, who so has really good music. - Yep, I was like, - It's cold kind of detached. Severance, you know, the Apple TV show. I think that's got really great music. - It's more like newer shows. - Yeah, I'd have to refresh my memory 'cause I just, I watch so much less television. (laughing) - Yeah. - Right, right. Like six feet under head. - Yeah, that could be, death note has good music. - Sign fell? - Breaking bad. - Mr. Robo has some great music in it. - Death note's a great example because I actually like care about the score for that. And like Wolf's reign, even though Yokokano is an alleged plagiarist, then it's very likely that it all came from other shit. - Oops. - Don't argue on the comments. - Yeah, some good ones. - Why are you guys asking about TV? This is a movie podcast, dammit. - Feel like we've done TV before. We did Renegade Angel. - You did. - I didn't, I didn't sign up for this shit. - True. - True. - Common side effects as well recently. I didn't know that. - Sure. - Any chance I can get to shout that show out. I love the music and I'll buy the thing. - Yeah. I'll think about that later. - Beast games. - Beast games. - The beast of games. - Oh, fuck you. - I don't think we did it. Some good questions. - Yeah. - All right, Jake. - Nice. - All right, recommendation time. - Are you going to give us a Christmas gift or a stocking full of coal? - Yeah, well, you go first. I kind of scared. - Have you been naughty or nice? - I've been very nice. So I had a rec planned that I've been looking forward to that I know that our audience would really enjoy. But then Adam was talking about a Christmas rec the last episode and he told me after we recorded the episode what he was thinking of doing and I thought that actually is kind of perfect. And not that I'm like stealing Adam's reg, I just think it would be a good time to do this one. So the recommendation is Eyes Wide Shut. - Yay. - We did it. - Yeah. - Haven't done a career for a while. - Exactly. - I've seen this film in a while. - I wish I had gotten the 4K criterion release 'cause I know that's kind of been a controversial restoration. - Yeah. - It was, has it? - Yeah, but there are people complaining about the look of it that it looks different than original. And again, it's like hard too because that was not like an finally authorized version of the movie when a woman like Kubrick died right before it was totally finished. So there's gonna be an interesting conversation around that movie that's, it's, yeah, this is gonna be fun. - Interesting. - Yeah, so I, yeah, I haven't seen this in a long time. This is probably my least familiar Kubrick in terms of like everything is made since the '80s or like since the '70s or even. So I do, yeah, me not having it memorized visually the whatever weirdness with the criterion will not affect me assuming that it is weird. - Alex, you've seen this, right? - Yep, I've seen it. I've only seen it once when it was a while ago. - Nice. - But I actually remember it really well. It has stuck with me. So I'm excited to see this. - Yeah, I remember parts of it well. Thank you, Jake. - Yes. - For a, yeah, five. - Lovely, it's a Christmas miracle. - It's a Christmas miracle. No quantum maniac today. (laughing) - Thank you. If you don't wanna see, sorry, if you don't wanna be spoiled for Eyes Wide Shut, 1999 directed by Stanley Kubrick, his final film that he directed, I guess. Watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks, but you can also listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com, sign up for premium. It's only a few bucks a month. Or patreon.com/sardonicast. Or click the join button on YouTube. You can join the members. You can listen by clicking on the, the community tab is where we published the unlisted ones so you can listen with background play and everything just 'cause for some reason it doesn't let you with members. I don't know why, but yeah, that's how we bypass YouTube's dumb shit. So add free and all that jazz. And we got sardonicast stickers, Normy Masterpiece Stickers, a perfect stocking stuffer. Link in the description. It's at ymsmerch.com. - Stick 'em in. - Normy Masterpiece Stickers. Get them. - All right, cool, eyes wide shut, looking forward to it. - Oh yeah. - All right, thanks guys. Have a happy, have a happy, have a happy, eyes wide shut your eyes. - Holidays, have a happy holidays. - Have a happy closed eyes, yeah, and holidays. - Oh, what? - You're enormous. - Have a happy avatar. - Avatar three. - Fuck, I stuck out of my tic-a. - No one wants to watch it with me. - Oh. - I'll watch it with you. - I'd watch it with you if I was over there. - Thanks. - All right, happy holidays everybody. - Bye. - Bye.