Sarah Matthews and Pablo Torre: The Pedophile Protection Party

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Bullwork Daily. I'm your host Tim Miller. We got a double header for you today in segment two. My guy, Pobletauri, from Pobletauri, finds out is back. I know I did just take down the Los Angeles Clippers, but we have a joint Bullwork Pobletauri that finds out pull out today that looks at kind of the sports and politics intersection and what we could learn from it with a lot of stuff in the news as we head to the election. Trump just announced he's campaigning with a bunch of football players, Damia Amindola is dead to the Patriots fans inside the Bullwork, et cetera. So much to discuss with Pablo in segment two. But at first, she's a baller contributor. She was deputy White House press secretary and first Trump administration. And she's been on vocal rest for the last two days, preparing herself for you at Sarah Matthews. Hey, Sarah. - Hey, Tim. Yeah, I wanted to give our viewers a heads up that I have laryngitis. And I have been on total vocal rest for the last two days and I'm powering through to join Tim's pod today. I've got some tea and my nice little Bullwork mug, get it on the Bullwork website. If you want us, some matching merch, but this is an improvement from yesterday, 'cause yesterday I was telling Tim, I sounded like RFK Jr. So I'm happy that today, it's a little bit better. We're just a little raspy, but with one week out from the election, we're not letting any laryngitis stop us here. - Thank you for fighting through like Trayda is green at the Auburn game last week. All right, we're gonna start with a bombshell house judiciary committee report related to Jeffrey Epstein. And I'm just gonna read from it because their executive summary tells you what you need to know. Donald Trump was an active participant in Jeffrey Epstein's sexual abuse of young women during the mid to late 1990s. The report includes a new allegation that Trump raped a 24-year-old and then promised her a visa and then why you admission? Demand she stayed quiet. The evidence, much of it still hiding behind her actions and the DOJ vaults shows that Trump lied about kicking Epstein out of his Mar-a-Lago club and strongly suggests that Epstein introduced Trump to his wife Melania. Above all, the actual evidence, we have seen this comes from the judiciary committee as shared in the accounts and stories of 11 women each described below indicates that Trump abused Assaulted and even raped numerous women alongside and in coordination with the most infamous sex trafficker in history. You know, I mean, there have been so many accusations over the years of Trump and sexual assault. Obviously, you know, him and Epstein were in cohorts at a certain level. There's been discussion in rumors of the Melania story before, but for the house judiciary Democrats put out this report on the precipice of them taking over potentially the committee and having subpoena power. I mean, I think that there is going to be a lot of devastating information to come out about Donald Trump and I think we're learning a lot more about why they covered it up. What was your reaction to it? - Yeah, I mean, obviously we are. This seems like confirmation that Trump met his wife Melania through a pedophile sex trafficker and that we have a new allegation of rape against this president. But I bet if you're turning on Fox News today, they barely talked about this. It probably hasn't had a blip or a single mention. You know, they're just running with being outraged over the fact that Obama compared the White House to the cheesecake factory. But, you know, I'm outraged that our president has been accused of rape by multiple women's. But that's why I think it's important for Democrats to regain control of the house and potentially the Senate because we need investigations into these types of matters. And I think the other thing that really stuck out to me when I saw this report and what it was detailing, including the mention of Melania being introduced to Trump through Epstein was I thought back to that press conference that she did. And I was like, that's the most convincing piece of evidence that what is in this report is probably accurate because she probably caught wind of that what was in these Epstein files and her mentions in there. And so she wanted to get out ahead and didn't really think through the fact that it actually makes it look more guilty and that it does make it look, in fact, true. So that was what kind of stuck out to me then when I saw that was thinking back to that weird random press conference that she gave when at that moment in time, we actually weren't really even talking about that Epstein files as much anymore. And she kind of put it back into the news cycle. It was an unbelievably defensive press conference and weird at the time and there was certainly a the Lady Doth protest too much to the whole deal. I thought the same when I saw this. Look, I want to talk about the political implications, like obviously, and this is all so horrible. I'm like, you read through all the stuff and what these young women went through. I, like I said, in the case of the rape allegation was a 24-year-old, but then in addition to that what all the girls, like children, went through that were trafficked and someone at least that worked at Mar-a-Lago and it's just horrifying that it has to come to this after all these years, like that this is why this comes out. But that is, you know, it's the nature of this thing. And then, you know, that unfortunately, like it has, there had to have been, you know, a lot of political pressure and a lot of grassroots pressure to force accountability, because there weren't a lot of people that were doing accountability voluntarily. And frankly, that includes the Democrats like when they were in charge. But the results on the political side, like, and I got a shout out the other Sarah Longwell on this, because she was, I was like a little bit more skeptical that this was going to be a major political issue for the midterms for a variety of reasons. And, you know, Longwell was really adamant that it was, based on what she was hearing in the focus groups. And like what we've seen now is 36 million have been spent on ads targeting Republicans who are, who are compulsive in the Epstein cover up. And now additional information coming out, you know, in the final eight days before the election. I get does seem like there is some political accountability potentially coming for the people that were involved in the cover up. And that's, that's a mild good thing. - Yeah, I mean, this is one of those issues that actually seem to penetrate through. And people that aren't paying attention to politics all the time are watching the news every day. This was something that they actually cared about and that they thought something isn't right here. There's a cover up happening. And for folks who are heading to the polls this November, I hope it's a motivating factor for them that do you want to vote for people who are covering up for predators and pedophiles and the Epstein glass? Or do you want to vote for people who will actually get for once real accountability for Epstein survivors? So that's something I really think, yeah, this has been an issue that it seems like, you know, has made a difference in the selection cycle. And I guess we'll just have to wait and see and exit polls just how much of a motivating factor it was. - The other big news from Monday afternoon and not that one of these stories that just won't go away is related to the Comey family. Actually, there are multiple news items related to the Comey family. First, starting with Jim, he was charged again by federal prosecutors. It was in DC, almost put out. Yes, to afternoon, he's charged for the transmission of national defense information. It's vague about exactly what it is, but it does say that he did this allegedly sometime on or before October 5th, 2016. So this is something that he's accused of done during the campaign in 2016 when he helped Trump, we should be able to remember. And then Trump, like there was a DOJ already in Trump one for four years, as you know, that did not look into this alleged transgression. But here we are. There is desperate to get him for anything. Comey's statement was it would almost be funny if it weren't such an appalling abuse that the Department of Justice one that we cannot become numbed to. I mean, truly insane behavior by the planche DOJ. - I mean, I'm not surprised though. Like this is exactly why Pam Bondy was fired and Donald Trump put Todd Blanche in this position was because Todd Blanche showed a willingness to get retribution for him and to go after his perceived enemies, one of those top people in Trump's mind being James Comey. So, you know, they're gonna go in after him again. I'm the lawyer, but it sounds like there's some questions about the statute of limitations around this. And I mean, this just seems like another witch hunt, in my opinion. I mean, this is what we knew that the second Trump administration was gonna be all about, that it wasn't gonna be about bettering the lives of everyday Americans is gonna be all about Trump and enriching himself and going after enemies and trying to get retribution. And so, I think they're just gonna keep finding new reasons to go after James Comey. And obviously we know that they've done that too by trying to go after his daughter. And I mean, you can talk about that more for our listeners, but she was another kind of victim of their attempt to go after James Comey and hurt him. - Yeah, I mean, the Keystone cops routine here with Maureen Comey. You know, it's one of these things. We're on the one hand, all of these people do continue to walk free. They've been pretty unsuccessful in their retribution campaign. But it's horrible. And I guess the Maureen Comey side of this ties actually to the Epstein cover-up. I guess that was her job. And the Justice Department was going, was prosecuting sex criminals, and including child sex, traffickers and criminals, and was something that she had experience with. And it's kind of a person you want in public service. just fired for no reason. Just fired 'cause her dad was Jim Cromie. We all knew that at the time. Well, on Monday, I mean, I hadn't judge confirmed the obvious, rolling that morning, Comey was unlawfully fired last year. Judge Jesse Furman wrote to the Justice Department violated the separation of powers, federal administrative law, and this Comey's due process rights when it fired her in July of 2025. So look, I need one of these situations that kind of wraps everything of the Trump administration together. It's clownish, the way that they went about this. She's going to end up giving back pay, and this is all going to end up costing us more. And they don't succeed at their efforts. But simultaneously did that. Like, this is totally upended the lives of this woman who was serving the country admirably and did nothing wrong. And they don't even get anything out of it. Yeah, no, I was very happy, at least, to see her be victorious in this fight, because I mean, it's ridiculous what her and her family have been put through. And like you said, she was an honorable public servant. And she got caught up in Trump's retribution campaign against her father. And so yeah, it's sad that they had to go through this. And everything else that this family is having to endure. But at least it gave me some hope in our judiciary system to see her win that fight. All right, I want to move on to the midterm stuff, which is what I thought we were going to talk about when we decided to get together before you got the Lyron jealous, but, you know, it's just crazy corruption stuff happening every day. You got to cover. But you're in Ohio, girl, so I guess we should start there. Many races of interest. It's pretty astoundingly disgusting and distribute a little group of Republicans. Ohio ended up putting up Texas in Ohio or battling for the worst slate of candidates. You have a Senate race. And Don, who's dead against Shared Brown? Shared looks like he's outside the margin. And other than kind of red state center races, he seems to be going pulling the best we'll see. Last time we were on, we discussed Max Miller, who's stayed in the House race. And Mike Johnson, everybody circled the wagons for. He's in a kind of a pretty red house district, but he's also losing in polling. And then we have Vivek Parama Swamy, who continues to defend the ad that features the mother of Amy Acton, who had her children taken away from her because she was complicit in their rape. And like the stuff that continues to come out about her mother, it's horrifying. It's like, it's 80 to your woman that was just completely and exactful. And I don't even want to go through her list of horrible. And there's cat deaths in there. I just like, this is a despicable woman. And Vivek now is out there trying to defend doing this ad. And the last week, by basically, I trying to pretend like the ad was not about Amy Acton lying about her childhood experiences. And that's exactly what the ad says. Like the ad says that she lied about living in a tent, even though they did live in a tent. The whole thing is horrendous. So you can pick your poison on which one of those races she want to give your heart takes on. I mean, yeah, like you said, it's a tough time to be in Ohio. And right now, when our representation is JD Vance, Max Miller, and Vivek Ramaswamy. I mean, those three are just pretty brutal. But I think that, yeah, this ad from Vivek is just a Hail Mary that is backfiring spectacularly. I mean, that's what I'm hearing from people that I talk to who live in Ohio and who work in Ohio politics. And I got tons of texts from even Republican campaign operatives who work nationwide, who were like, what the fuck is this ad? Because I mean, it's like you said, despicable and disgusting. And I mean, downright evil to platform, a woman like this. And obviously, of course, Trump is out there calling her a very smart woman and that we should be trusting her, even though she hasn't talked to her daughter in nearly 50 years. So I don't think that she has an accurate assessment of her daughter's character, particularly when she sided with her daughter's rapist over her own child. And brought them into the house. I should say one of the news items that I've last spoke about this that we learned is that he was on the lamb already for incest pedophilia. He raped his own biological daughter, allegedly. But clearly, indicted was on the run. It's just kind of a different era where it's like, we don't have to sort of access for tracking down criminals he used to. So he moves and then meets Donna and then does it again. The Donna's daughter. Yeah. And I mean, Vivek is already a weak candidate. And so that's why I think they should put out this ad. And because he's hoping that Ohio voters will just hear that ad and they won't go digging for more information. I mean, when you think, oh, OK, this is the mother of a candidate who's out there calling her own daughter a liar. And supporting Vivek. This must have pull tested for them well. But what these campaign consultants for him clearly did not-- all right, I think they must not have pull tested for-- is what happens when voters learn more information and they learn the backstory, then how do they react? And what we're seeing is that this is backfiring. And so I think that there's a real shot that Amy Attenewins, Vivek Ramaswamy loses, and that it really could hurt Republicans down ballot in Ohio. I think if I were John Houston, I'd be pissed at Vivek for putting out this ad. I mean, Houston tried to distance himself from it and disavowed it. But it's going to affect all these Ohio Republicans down ballot. And on the opposite, Sherrod Brown is a strong candidate. So it's like Amy Attenewins running against Vivek who's already kind of weak, but Sherrod Brown's a very strong candidate and very well liked in Ohio. He's seen as someone who is gritty and just real and a blue collar kind of guy. And so that was already going to be a tough race for Houston in this political environment. And then to think that now he has to kind of answer for this ad and deal with it in the last week of the election. And this is kind of the closing message there in Ohio. Max Miller, I'm really scared that he pulls it off. Like you said, he kind of comes from a very red Republican district in Ohio. But I'm just really hoping that Ohio will have decency prevail in these races because I mean, something like the Amy Atten ad featuring her mom. I mean, that is just a line that I don't think you should ever cross. I know our politics have gotten disgusting and dirty and ugly. And that politics is a messy game. But there should be some things that are off limits. And I really think that if people are OK with that ad or they're OK with the allegations against Max Miller that he threw boiling water at his ex-wife and held a gun to her head and that he broke their two-year-old daughter's collarbone, then people really need to look themselves in the mirror because something should be more important than politics. And I would think that human decency should prevail. But I fear that we are just so lost as a country that if I see those two men win and those races, I mean, I'm just going to be like distraught. But I hope that Ohioans will be smart enough to not let that happen. Well, that's a little triggering. Because I do want to say, listen to you talk. I do feel like JVL because you're going, well, these ad makers, these consultants were basing it on the electorate, not being smart and not doing their own research. I'm like, uh-oh. And I'm like, I'm not going to lose faith in my fellow Ohioans if he wins. That has been going, uh-oh, again. But I don't know. I mean, the math doesn't look good for them. And again, I do think it speaks to-- you're going for a place of weakness if you decide that you want to play this card, if you're a role model. Yeah, I own it. And his defensive it is so like slimy and smarmy. And I just don't think that people like Vivek, you know? No, no. He's not likeable. He's unlikeable. I mean, he's fake. He gives off, you know, like used car salesmen. Like, I just don't think in Ohio that he would have been the best candidate there. I think that there are a lot of other really strong Ohio Republicans that they could have ran. And I will say, I don't think Amy Acton's very strong candidate. So I think that she would have gotten her ass beat if like, it was any other Ohio Republican maybe running in that race. I will give her a shout out, though, that this ad, if people dig into the backstory, I think it just makes her look even more strong. Yeah, resilient. Everything that she came from. She lived in the fucking tent in the winter. They lived in the tent in the winter. Yeah. And that's horrible. And she is where she is now. I mean, that says a lot about her. So I think that, you know, hopefully Ohio voters are reading into it. I do think that this is like one of those things where now people are learning the backstory and that it's backfiring on them. But like Ohio is so red. I've watched it up throughout my whole 31 years of life of, you know, growing up where Ohio was, you know, this bell weather state to be in Ruby Red. And so it makes me worry that there will be people who will dismiss it. But I don't know, I got it. Really hope that this is something that is just a line people won't cross. So I think on the acting thing, there's a handful of Democrats, a cycle who have like said that they're not going to debate the Republicans because, you know, they don't want to platform their lives or whatever. And I just, I do feel like this is a little bit of, I don't know what's happening. And like whether the consultant class, whether this is internet brain, or it's just like these Republican candidates don't have a lot to argue for. Like if you can't debate somebody this cycle, that is a little bit concerning. And it's been one thing that I've seen a couple of different races, including maybe one I wish, I wish the Democrats would just, I do people, and people don't even watch but turn to bait someone. Just like it makes you love me. And it's like, you have someone with such a strong hand to play, given how much Trump has fucked everything. up. Anyway, there have been a few races like that. >> I agree. You look at Texas and you're like, oh, the fact that Ken Paxton won't debate Talleriko and Talleriko is like, give me a time in place. I'll do it on Fox News. He's saying everything and willing to debate him. And so obviously, I think that makes Paxton look weak. There's a chance that this works out for Amy Acton that she isn't debating Vivek because I think to the last time that a Democrat refused to debate their Republican candidate in a gubernatorial race, and it was Katie Hobbs versus Kerry Lake in Arizona. And it worked out for the Democrat. So maybe it will work out, but I agree with that mindset that it does make you look weak if you're not willing to. But then there is, I guess, an argument for like, do I want to platform them in their lives? And I mean, especially now after what Vivek has done in the move he's pulled, I want to debate him now, but I guess prior to the ad, maybe she didn't have a strong of an excuse. You give 10 minutes of a high analysis without mentioning how John Houston is caked up. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. The one thing that Trump has most coherent message in the, his closing term argument is John Houston's ask, I don't know what it looks like. Oh, really? I've got a picture. I'll send you. It's not. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad, actually. Oh, really? That's so funny that he's so, you know, just enamored with it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I mean, he's a good looking guy. But yeah, I mean, I don't get why that has become the running bit in every speech now, but I don't know, dementia. Across the border there in Michigan, there was a campaign event that Trump was doing for microaggers, which included a photo of microaggers just beaming looking at Trump. And I don't know what Rodgers like thinks he's doing with this. I haven't Trump in Michigan. I guess it's like the best of bad options you have there. But one of the people that spoke before Trump said something that was so gross that I kind of feel compelled to cover it. And you know, it's complicated. I went back and forth because this is David Beamer. It's the father of Todd Beamer, American hero on flight 93. But anyway, I don't know. This is this was platform by the campaign. And this is pretty consistent with the coherent message that microaggers and Donald Trump have been saying. So I think it's worth watching. He has a birth certificate, but he's not an American. He had the choice. He had the choice to be an American or not. He has chosen otherwise. He has blood that's red. However, he has chosen to remove any strain of the white and blue part in his blood. We cannot, cannot allow this man to invade and occupy our country. And this is that is disgusting. We're not as so an American deal that I mean, I've just born here like I've just American like the whole thing is insane. And it that we can't allow him to invade and occupy our country like that is the closing message. Just straight race or something is the closing message in Michigan straight racism. And yeah, I mean, God, it just shows how corrupted and gross the Republican Party has become. When I watched that clip and saw it, I thought back to how when John McCain took the microwave from a woman who was talking like that at one of his campaign events. And what does Donald Trump do? He platforms that guy and gives him the mic at the at the podium at one of his rallies. And that just tells you everything about the Republican Party and its current iteration that this is what plays and that they they have to lean into fear mongering and racism and bigotry in this Michigan Senate race because they have nothing else to run on. And you know, Trump has been out there saying that he keeps calling a dual Mohammed. And I mean, it's just also gross and there really are no words. And like it makes me sad to think that Todd Beamer's father is out there saying all this. I wish he like he maybe held the same kind of anger toward Trump and Jared Kushner for cozying up to the Saudis considering their connection with 9/11. But like no, and studies out there, you know, on stage sharing a stage with this man and defaming another man just because he has a foreign sounding name. But he is every bit as American as you are I and it's just gross and shameful. Yeah, I need this to say just the whole concept of having Todd Beamer's dad that it's like outside has nothing to do with 9/11. Like there's not like he was in his teenager. This whole thing trying to just act like he's a terrorist. Like he's finding the buildings. Like Mike Rogers is doing this. Trump has been doing this. It's disgusting. And it's pretty impressive. I guess of Vivek Ramaswami that he's managed to kind of lap the Mike Rogers campaign and running the most the most gross race of the cycle. Yeah, there you go, but it's well, it's enough to make me to make me find some joy when Abdul Beets is asked next week, which is I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. So we'll keep an eye on that. You were in the White House press, you know, you're dealing with the White House press pool. A couple of announcements about the way that Trump is looking to change that. I think we discussed a little bit last time, but he wants to move the press out of the White House. Now that Caroline has left, he's re-upping that and it seems like something that they want to do as part of the change over to whoever the eventual press secretary is since Katie didn't quite last. R&P. They have floated a name now on Monday afternoon. Steven Schung, the communications job of the Hut floated this name on Twitter. And then Jake Lahat has got good sources. This is written some stuff for us says that this person has a real chance of becoming the press secretary and that it's currently a live ball. And that person is Nicki Minaj. Interesting. I, you know, in this timeline, I have nothing surprising to me anymore. I guess, yeah, this is insane, but if you know anything about Nicki Minaj's background, she actually might be the perfect fit for this administration because her husband is a convicted rapist and her brother is a convicted pedophile. So maybe it's a natural fit, but yeah, I can't tell if this is Steven Schung trolling us because then I thought when I first saw it that it was just a troll, but then obviously Jake's reporting makes me think, hell, who knows, this actually could be a real thing. I mean, I will say she's a performer. So she'd be comfortable in front of the microphone. But like, this is why I think Katie Zachariah blamed out is because she didn't have any White House experience or campaign experience. And that, I think, is the necessary component we've seen to be an effective White House press secretary that you actually do need a little bit of that because it is one of the toughest jobs in government. But if they want to do it, go for it. I can't see it going well, but- Just to add to the rap sheet, Nicki Minaj wasn't a legal immigrant to come from Trinidad and Tobago. I was pushing for her deportation a while ago, but I think she bought one of the goals. She's one of the people that bought the gold visa. I think so. Yeah. So I guess they've let her in now. I saw a tweet, so I can take too much credit for this, but someone tweeted something like if Nicki Minaj becomes press secretary that like the New York Times or some outlet should hire Cardi B as a White House correspondent. And for those that don't know, two female rappers who have a lot of beef and Cardi B's so much better. Why the New York Times maybe we should hire Cardi B. Cardi, please. The Bullock should hire Cardi as a correspondent. No, literally if she gets named Cardi, we want you. We know that you would, oh my god, just it would be killer. Like that would be unreal. So it happens that Nicki Minaj respect, but like, I don't know. I hope that they do it because I think it would be ridiculous and hilarious, but like I don't think that it'll end up being her ultimately. We covered this last time on the on the moving of the press room. Like why do you think that's significant? Like having the press be outside of the White House versus N. Do you think that's meaningful? Yeah, I mean, I think it's just in another attempt for them to restrict access. We have obviously seen it with them barring certain outlets and reporters and things like that. And so this would, instead of the White House press being in the West Wing with the West Wing staff, then this would move them across the street into the EEOB. And I think that for an administration that likes to pride themselves in being the most transparent, this would fly in the face of that. And you know, Trump keeps saying that he wants to make it into a swimming pool. And even Caroline Levit was smart enough to not take the bait on this. He was trying to tell her, oh, well, this could be your lasting legacy as press secretary. And she clearly put that off because she didn't want that to be her lasting legacy that she would be restricting access to the press. Because from what I've heard, she actually, she was very adversarial with them, you know, obviously in the briefing room on camera, but behind the scenes had working relationships with these folks. So I don't think she wanted that to be her legacy. But I also don't think that Trump should be trusted to turn the briefing room into a pool when we've already seen him fuck up one pool in this administration. I don't think we should use taxpayer dollars for him to make it another pool. But I will say, for those that don't know, historically, where the White House briefing room is was actually a pull back in the day. What thing I'm actually about when we're talking about the Columbia and the Retribution, that this conversation just made me think about, is your friend Cassidy Hutchison as well, who was also, was recently targeted with another indictment by the administration. Do you like know what the latest is on all that and just want to speak to that at all? Totally outrageous. Yeah, no, I mean, it's just completely outrageous. Another example of this administration going after people who have done absolutely nothing wrong, Cassidy's an American hero. And she told the truth when men who were two and three times her age were cowards and chose to stay silent when they had much less to lose. I mean, Cassidy had her whole career ahead of her. And, you know, I'm not going to get into, like, details of our private conversations or anything. We don't really talk about that kind of stuff, even when I have chatted with her in there. You know, we just, it's more just, like, checking in how are you, you know, thinking of you, that kind of thing. But I think that she has been put through the ringer. And I think that this is, you know, just a witch hunt and that there's no merit or validity to their statements that she lied on the contrary. I think that having worked with her and knowing how much access she had, I know that her testimony was truthful that everything that she witnessed and that she was told is the truth. So it's just, it's really sad though that they're putting her through this. But she's already been through so much. But, you know, I just know that like, you know, the bull work community, hopefully everyone's, you know, has her and their thoughts and their prayers because like, to have to go through this after, you know, it's such a young age and everything she's already gone through. It's just complete another bullshit. Well, definitely send Cassie our love. And, no, I mean, it's a classic move of, you know, the liars is to try to go after the one truth teller and try to undermine their testimony, you know, and unfortunately, she's bearing the brunt of that. All right. Last thing that relates to January 6, a memory project is something that you and our friends at home with a brave are working on. And I just wanted to give you a chance to talk about that because this is, you know, there's just so many examples of these kind of small abuses of public responsibility that are happening in this administration. And this is one of them. And I'm glad that that the home of the brave is working on it. So, why don't you just tell people what not that? Yeah. So, obviously, in addition to the work that I do with the bull work, I work with a group called home of the brave with some of our other favorite folks, you know, Sarah Longwell, Bill Crystal, George Conway, and one of our other folks that we do close work with is Tom Jocelyn. And Tom Jocelyn was the author of the January 6 House Committee report. And he had a hunch that if Trump took power again, that they would erase the January 6 related files at DOJ. And so, at home of the brave, we went and archived and captured all that footage because that's exactly what DOJ did when Trump took power. They deleted thousands of files related to January 6 convictions. And so, thankfully, because of Tom's smart thinking, we were able to archive that. And now we have created a website where people can actually go view these files that the Trump administration doesn't want you to see. And it's Jan 6, memoryproject.org. This is such important work because this is what authoritarian regimes do. They want to rewrite history to control the narrative. So, that way, we're not holding them accountable. And so, obviously, at home of the brave, we're not going to let them get away with that. So, we need to be, you know, sounding the alarm that these little types of abuses of power are happening where they're actively trying to rewrite our history because we obviously have seen so many Republican politicians do that as well where they've tried to whitewash the events of that day or, you know, they promote conspiracy theories related to that day. And so, that's why this is all so important to keep the historical record of it. All right. Appreciate your work on that, Sarah. And for fighting through the laryngeitis, you sound a great little rascal. It's kind of sultry. You had a couple of sayings or something before the show. Okay. Yeah, we'll go with that because, like, hopefully it's giving, yeah, sultry and mysterious and raspy, like I said, if we had recorded yesterday, I would have sounded like RFK Jr. and that would have been quite triggering for our listeners. So, thank God that the voice has improved, but thank you for having me. I'd appreciate you very much. I've next public alright. All right. We are back. He is the Pulitzer Prize winning host of Publicatory Finds Out. Board recently teamed up with Publicatory Finds Out for a new poll that investigates how the public views the intersection of sports and politics and masculinity. And I don't know, it turns out we're pretty masculine. What's up? It's public or how you doing? Shockingly masculine, you and me. Yeah, shockingly masculine. What the data suggests about this. We might as well just, we might as well not bury the lead. We also did poll Pablo and my favorability. And how did that turn out? You know, I have a lot of ground to make up with my my my pollsters. I'm hiring the strategy group to also assess this, hoping to get that crispy known money to hopefully work its magic on me. Put me on a horse, for instance, maybe. Yeah, I was just trying to get you by two points. Two points. Yeah, an important two points though. I mean, within the margin of air, but you know, win as a win or she's at hand grenades. All right. We're going to get into the poll on a sec, but I think we need to start with an area of your expertise, you know, that's a little bit more significant, so deeper and goes back away. Because 20 years ago, you were in class together in Harvard at Harvard with a guy named Vivek Ramaswami. If I was like in a time machine and I told you, us from the future and that one class mate would be using an abusive cat killing mother who inflicted an indicted, incest pedophile on her own daughter in an endorsement ad in the governor's race. Would you have been able to guess Vivek or I don't know, were there a bunch of other sociopaths in your class? There are undoubtedly several other alleged sociopathic candidates to consider in this. He would have been number one, though. And that's remarkable just for people to not perhaps immediately understand why that's remarkable. There are lots of presidential aspiring rulers of the world types at Harvard, as you might imagine. There are lots of people who are in various royal families and are, you know, illuminati members in a non-exaggerated way. Vivek Ramaswami has always been that guy, though. And by that, I mean, he is the guy who, if you asked me, also, who is the classmate who is most likely to have petitions circulated by his high school classmates, his college classmates, and at least one grade school teacher, besieging America to not put him in power as the governor of Ohio, I certainly would have picked Vivek Ramaswami. He's just that guy. You guys didn't just kind of hang, like, didn't vibe out. I mean, you have some things in common, you know, you're both strivers. Both have Asian parents, you know, it's Southeast. Son of Asian immigrants, him, Indian American, my parents, Filipino, who went to all boys Jesuit high schools, him at St. X, St Xavier, me at Regis High School, as you well know. And we both, like, admittedly, cringe-worthy in various regards when it comes to how badly we wanted to do well at school. I get the theory of him in a way that I have sort of held up as a don't do this while you're tempted to try and achieve. And that's, Tim, that's the thing about this is that in theory, he's very familiar. He was a contrarian, libertarian kid who raised his hand in every class. We were in intro to philosophy together, moral reasoning 22, justice was what it was called. And so you got to hear him just be the contrarian. And that itself is like, okay, there are zillions of those kids. Are other such kids? Yeah, exactly, as Tim Miller, perhaps, is also staring right into the camera. All boys school, Regis scratch with myself. Yeah, yeah. Were you also a libertarian rapper who had a nickname? I was libertarian, not rapping. It was not rapping. And so one, one, one distinguishing characteristic. And then on top of that, you know, it's what do you do when you know better? And it turns out you enable the worst impulse and not only of yourself, but of the entire country that you're trying to win acceptance from at any cost, apparently. Yeah. Well, shout out to the Xavier classmates. I did see that petition as well, you know, speaking to what we're supposed to learn at Jesuit All Boy's School, right? So there's just to be men for others. Men for others is, I think, a key. It can feel like such a cliche until there's a test. Like, do you run the ad with the credibly accused and eventually runner from state authorities? Yes. Pedophile? Yes. You know, perhaps you don't get in league with him. And the president who happens to have, as his unifying rhetoric, pedophilia in a shockingly comfortable way. And we talked to it then saying what one and the other like big news the day was the the Democrats reports, like looking at that scene files cover up. And like, it's not a shock to find out that I think that as we see more of the files that have been redacted and not released, that that we'll learn that there was more involvement between the president and Jeffrey Epstein. So, there we go. I do think being, God, I was gonna make a mend for others in pedophilia joke, but I can't do that. I'm not gonna do that to my, I'm not gonna do that to my, to my, you know. - We know better is the point though. - We should know better. Our generation specifically coming out of the Catholic church, Jesuit educated, this is not stuff that is like a, oh, let me think about that for a second. This is kind of the thing that makes you uncomfortable with the religion that you perhaps faithfully, in our case, look, I'm a fake Catholic, all that stuff. And the fact, by the way, just the extra, the extra sort of twist, the plot twist on this, right? It's never been easier to win elected office as an alleged con man with no scruples who is pro pedophilia, at least rhetorically, while also, while also being a billionaire. And the fact that Vivek Ramaswami, and all such descriptors, right, the fact that Vivek Ramaswami happens to also be Indian American Hindu vegetarian, who is watching his base, eat him. I mean, like, rent flesh from limb whenever possible because they are also rank racists. There's an extra level of just like, this is Shakespeare level tragic comedy. It's like that guy wanting to be this thing at this time with these people as the people he needs to win favor from as he's trying to figure out, like, can I do this? And he can't is, again, remarkable is sort of what comes to mind. - All right, well, I was a pain in the ass to a lot of my Jesuit teachers, you know, shout-out Jim Proud, who came around, you know. The little lessons that were learned, they were implanted, and I maybe didn't act on them immediately. It was a 17-year-old. But at age 44, I feel like some of it is sunk in for me. And there's still a lot of work left to be done for Vivek Ramaswami. All right, let's go to the poll for a second. Well, just big expected, we pulled a bunch of stuff. I mean, one of the reasons we wanted to do this is because sports has been injected into politics to a degree that is I think greater, you know, there's always been some politics and sports and vice versa. But this cycle, it's been injected into it by, you know, Trump and his allies, you know, to, I think a much larger degree in the past than in the past, it's because they don't have a lot of actual policy wins to talk about, and they're looking for other outside validators. But, you know, like since we've done the poll, for example, - Wow. - Trump has announced that he didn't event with Todd Gurley, or he already didn't event with Todd Gurley. He's announced he's going to be in Texas doing an event with Johnny Manzel, Colt McCoy, and Danny Amindola, which is quite an interesting place of three football players. But he's also attacked, you know, LeBron as an on-patriot. You know, I mean, this is, it is everywhere. And so, you know, we thought that we kind of take a look at how the public views this intersection. What was your kind of big takeaway from it? - Well, the big takeaway as you articulate this is not only do Americans say, at least, right? We get into the discussion on the show, the difference between revealed preferences and sort of stated references. Americans know better as well here, right? They're like, we don't really want this. But why then is it when you hear the montage we cut together, which also shocked me in terms of just how long it went on? - Yeah. - You played the montage, it was like, - Yeah, I should say, I mean Sam went over on the public to find out, you can go, that's already up, you can go watch that. We're like, those guys have been together. Into the data, and Americans say, you know, like we don't want TV commentators and athletes. And yet, for reasons that I think are worth discussing, that's what they keep on getting. So we keep on getting. And I think, Tim, as you were saying that, it occurred to me also as we're talking about, like how do you, in an era of the least affordable United States we've ever lived in, why do we keep on getting sports? It's because sports has the cheesecake factory discourse reminding me of this too, all of this dumb shit. It's like, how do you wrap yourself in the costume of I'm like everyone? - Yes. - You like sports, me, me too. I love sports. And so that's why you have like the costume of sports being worn as a way to bypass the billionaire, gold plated palace stuff. It's a way to get to the heart of what Americans actually, and this is genuine, they actually do care about, which is sports. - Yeah, I mean JD Vance is a great example of this. And then he's a classic, and again, I say this with love 'cause I was about half of these things. He's a classic like model UN mock trial dungeon dragons nerd. Like that's just what he is. You know, just like be yourself. You know, and here he is the other day tweeting about how happy he was for Cincinnati. I have a couple of Bengals friends in my life. I've never really heard anybody just refer to them as just Cincinnati. Congrats on your win Cincinnati. You know, talking about how his kid was, you know, really impressed with Alex, you legend Jamar Chase. And he damn well should be 'cause Jamar Chase is an animal. But you know, this is like, I think what they're turning to in lieu of maybe some other political tactics that they might have used had things been going differently. - Yeah, and there's a little bit of being glorious bastards, like three fingers raised, meme there, where you just like wait a minute. That's not what we do. That's not how we talk about football. And by the way, the vacant JD who both have claimed that Yale Law School to have like watched Bengals games at the bar together, I'm like, sure. I'm sure you did. - But this is the thing. - Let me see your icky shuffle. Let me see your icky shuffle. - Man, not your tax returns. - But exactly, but your icky shuffle. I want people to understand. And I think this is where I have faith. Like, how do I have faith or optimism about any of this? I do think in the end, Tim, I think that sports fans know sports so well that they can smell this. And my hope is that what we're seeing is not the victory of sports being used as this Trojan horse to get to some of the most autocratic policies in the history of Western civilization. It's not that. It's just that other stuff that they're appealing to happens to be packaged with it. That is effective like racism. Like an appeal to all of the other fears. I think the sports thing, it's funny. I don't think sports is effective. I think it's just the thing they think is effective and the other stuff works more. That's kind of how I think about it. 'Cause no bangles fan is like, that's my guy. - I'm like, that's my guy. That's exactly how we talk. - It is interesting like the way it's inverted. Like there's a period of time and we'll get to my college classmate Clay Travis at the end. But there's a period of time where there's this big thing about keeping politics out of sports. 'Cause there was a moment, particularly around COVID. - Of course. - In fact, there's a lot of kind of left themes being injected into sports. And like the way that that is inverted now is like pretty noteworthy, right? And I was just thinking about this one. One of the things we pulled was the most popular athletes. And then if you break it down by Republicans or as Democrats, like for the Democrats, the most popular athletes are basically just the best athletes in the world. It's like LeBron and Steph. And then like for Republicans, the most popular athletes in the world are people that like say something about politics. You know, it was Sophie Cunningham, Phil Nicholson. - Sophie Cunningham at number four is a remarkable thing on that chart. Yeah. Beyond even like that, which was so like, of course, when you see it in the data, there is something also interesting about the dynamic, which is at the very least, when LeBron James and when these athletes Colin Kaepernick, when they were injecting non-sports into sports, so to speak. It was from a we are humans playing sports and this is what matters to us. This feels so top-down as opposed to bottom-up or like synthetically incentivized in ways that I think brings us to the funniest thing, which is that there is a point at which the synthetic nature of this so-called political movement in sports, the Sophie Cunningham, Phil Nicholson, at all kind of dynamic, is even too much for conservatives. And that brings us to Endless Cancer. - Yeah, it does. Maybe my favorite data point in the poll. You know, we tested a bunch of like, you know, the hot button issues, you know, in addition to the figures themselves and one of the most transgender, you know, athletes in sports. And like, you can see why Republicans are running a lot of ads about this if you look at the data, it's just fundamentally. Like Americans do not think it's fair for, you know, trans girls, trans women to play in girls' sports. There's like a mixed view of like, what should be done about that? I mean, like a, it's like close to 50/50 really of who think that there should be government rules versus just letting the leagues figure it out. But like, overwhelming people are not, you know, in support of, you know, more liberalized rules around that. And so you would think then it would extend to like the figures who are the most visible arguing against trans girls in sports being popular, right? Such as, and as Cantor, who's been out there, like, you know, getting in kerfuffles at WNBA playoff games. And as it turns out, when we pulled that question, people are absolutely repulsed by his touch. So like they, they might agree with his underlying point, but they find him utterly repellent. And that was the bridge too far. - I enjoyed that. - Look, again, where can we find something reasonable? building optimism in the data. Even among people who are like anti-trans inclusion, which is, by the way, as we poll also in the data, is a function it seems of a total, it's called lack of numeracy around how many trans athletes that even are anymore. Like there's the boogie man, it's presumed frequency. How many of them there are is I think informing why this is something that they need to like have a real take on. Even when you take all that to the side, it's like, no, any scantor, please, this is way too much. I mean, dude, come on. No one thinks this is a good thing. - People thought there were like a lot of trans athletes in college sports and there's zero that does-- - Effectively zero is what the NCAA has presented with us. Because, by the way, we raised this point. There are some wins that the right has put on the board. And the trans issue for all the reasons and is resulted in legislation and regulation top down, again, that has resulted in effectively zero NCAA athletes who are trans playing women sports. And the fact that they can't claim the victory because if you claim the victory, you can't be victimized anymore. - Yep, the case in the ads. - It's just, it's everything in one case study of a poll question. - This is why it's not working this midterm as well as the last time, which is an encouraging silver lining. One of the other things that you kind of mentioned how this is, this is obviously the ways that they're using sports is wrapped up in gender politics and racial politics. The one of the data point that I became obsessed with, as aforementioned, was the popularity of Angel Reese among Republicans. Republicans don't watch women's basketball. So this is all just like they're just characters. And Sophie Cunningham and Caitlin Clark were two of the top five most popular people we pulled among Republicans. Angel Reese was like the least, was about the least with high negative ratings. Really, there weren't a lot of athletes that had high negative ratings at all. And she was one of them because she had high negative ratings among Republicans. This is based as far as I can tell, on kind of like an updated bird versus magic race war that the right wing media is injecting into the WNBA. And like Twitter, like social media, like meme accounts, like trying to find Angel Reese missing a shot and like making that go viral when, in fact, she said significantly more success than Caitlin Clark. She's in the WNBA finals right now. It's another one of those things where narratively, not politically, but narratively, reality is actually your friend here if you are anti Angel Reese and Pro Caitlin Clark. It's actually way better to have a rival who is like Larry Bird as opposed to Anis Cantor. It's really good to have a race war premised on two potential champions, two actually good athletes. But because no one pays attention, the people, because nobody who hates women's sports actually watches women's sports and they're the biggest champions of women's sports, they don't know that they can update the rhetoric here to be actually like a good sports story as much as it is uncomfortable at times. Like at least talk about how she's good and not like unworthy of the discussion. She's told to be the Homes in Allen. Could be the Homes in Allen, much less toxic. It's way more fun if you love sports to actually acknowledge Angel Reese is good now, as opposed to Angel Reese is a media manufacturer creation that is a symptom of the general Democrat conspiracy. It's like, or if you just watch sports and be like, "Look, she's not a great shooter, but she's an incredible everything else and she's now in the finals and she might win." And that's something that we should talk about. Well, one reason people can't watch the finals because the WNBA is having game six of their finals at 12.30 on a Thursday this week. What is it? Is it the worst run league in history? Like how is that fucking possible? I can't watch the game sex with my daughter to she's in school at 12.30. On a Thursday. The league does itself know favors. That's by the way, a fair critique. Like by the way, the WNBA, which is run by the NBA and the NBA benefits from there being this layer of meet shield known as Kathy Engelbert, who has already announced her resignation at the end of the season. There will be changes here, but I think it really does demand on something like a public response. And it would help if the people who cosplayed as sports fans and say they hated this one player, actually, we're like, "You know what? I want to watch this player lose." And I'm going to actually, but they don't. They just don't, actually. One of the other interesting takeaways from the poll I had was I was kind of surprised by how anti-prediction markets people are. You know, there was basically a plurality, there's kind of 30% of people didn't really have an opinion one or the other, but of the people who had an opinion, a plurality wanted more regulation of those. Do that strike you as well? - This is also a symptom of sports fans and Americans just getting a whiff of what gambling is and being like, "I know that's mellas." That's mellas like gambling. I mean, prediction markets are sports gambling, like a super majority of them, it's sports bets. They're called event contracts, but they're sports bets. And so the idea here, and this brings us to the other thing, Tim, around sports gambling, which is that a majority of Americans they think that athletes are manipulating games for gambling reasons. Like this is, this has gone from like an abstract mug rough the crime dog sort of like speech that you'd hear from leagues decades ago and we're kids to now the actual nightmare kind of coming home to roost if you don't take regulation seriously. - We also tested, as I've mentioned, sports figures and sports media figures, popularity. And in the sports media, one of the figures we tested was Pat McAfee, it's done the news this week. We should say, he had a plus three favorability, 20 favorable, 17 unfavorable. So he had a greater favorability than both of us. So you know, acknowledge, shout out, Pat. - Absolutely. - Taking your shirt off, maybe I should be taking my shirt off more on the podcast. - We're gonna pull that. - Do you think? - Yeah, we should pull that as well. - Do you wanna see my nipples more on the podcast? Let me know. - Encouraging side data point though, 0% thought he would be an acceptable VP nominee for the Republicans. Cuban was, people did, we're interested in Cuban as a VP nominees for sports figures were and the Democratic side, not a lot of interest in sports figures as VP nominees at all we found. I was, I bring that up, it's as interested. McAfee's in the news this week and if you saw this, he was, yeah, at the University of Utah for game day and he's done a couple of conversations afterwards on all of his various content activations where basically he said that he didn't like the University of Utah. He had a lot of anxiety there and it was driven by the fact that the University put out a spoof Instagram asking kids about Pat McAfee and some of them were picking them on him a little bit. - Yeah, like doing a, do a McAfee impression. - Yeah, and it was pretty Utah-ish. I mean, it was pretty milky. You know, it was not like, it was not a math. These are not nasty impressions. Like, this was drinking impressions. - I was underwhelmed. - Yeah, it was like an energy impressions of the Venom. Yeah, I was proud of the Venom and I got like a bunch of kids from Utah being like, I'm gonna take my shirt off. - Yeah, so anyway, he said that this gave him anxiety and then has twice brought up that he thought it was in particularly bad taste because of what happened to Charlie Kirk also at a campus in Utah and seemed to imply that he's now scared that like a game day, like he might be in threat because of this Instagram video. And, you know, man, I will just say, ever since Charlie Kirk thing, we do a lot of events. Every once in a while, the thing that does cross your mind, like I understand that, but I thought it was pretty strange to like invoke Charlie Kirk multiple times because of an Instagram video. I wonder what you made of it. - It's funny. I was going through the thought process of like, what's my analysis of this? And then I realized that it was reminding me of my analysis of Kelly Clarkson at that magic shop in Brooklyn where I was like, you know what, I can't. - This is a great episode of your show by the way, I recommend people check out that. - We got the footage of that. It was like, I can't tell Pat how he should feel. That is such like an interior personal thing that is informed by perhaps childhood traumas as well as, in this case, I think more obviously, just like living in your mentions. Pat McAfee, his radar Tim, there are lots of ways to do celebrity in 2026 and he is so good at many of them. But perhaps the crippling flaw that we're seeing over and over again is a sensitivity to what people in your mentions are telling you. And I am not here to lecture a guy with a far bigger, more successful internet operation, how to do it because it's working clearly on the net level. But what we're seeing is that as an Achilles heel that is either leading to something like a dysmorphia around what is actually happening in reality because the internet overlaps but is not quite the same thing as well as just a, and this is the Kelly Clarkson thing, a perhaps genuine, I'll give that credit, I perhaps genuine sense of victimhood that is in contradiction to all of the success that we both just acknowledged. Like part of the joke, Tim, of like we put Pat McAfee in a poll for VP is that he is so salient as a cultural figure. - I thought he was going to do better. - I was out of control of him. I did not think he was going to finish it zero percent. I thought he would do better. - Absolutely. And I think that perhaps sort of like data point, which is echoed in the mention saying, are we really getting yet more McAfee? you know, that's he's living a focus group in which the people are kind of now for the first time saying this is a bit much. And that could feel potentially like an assassination attempt, I guess, if you really do want a universal approval, which no one, of course, ever is going to get from now until the rest of the time. There's definitely some psychological work that needs to be done about seeing yourself as Charlie Kirk, I would say. There's a death there that I think any network provider perhaps can assist with, but that's some layers. Our friends have better help on sponsoring this episode, but sometimes they sponsor us and it might be something worth turning to. Related, we also looked at who people see as male role models and maybe the most fascinating result that we got, Matthew McConaughey did the best. He was his plus 33-33% more people saw him as role model than not. Last place or second to last place, I guess, was the Secretary of War Pete Hankseth at 11%, only 28% of people saw him as a positive role model. I mean, a shockingly low number, given that's his whole brand. And for me, if people are looking for anything encouraging to come out of this, I think that it's that the high-t beardies, weirdos, fatties, tranny's stick that he's doing is landing with like, basically nobody. Not even the whole Trump base likes it. He is getting less support for that than even just like the bottom rung of Trump supporters. I think there are a couple ways that even in the era in which culture war seems to be the most effective strategy to do anything when you're trying to hide what you're really doing in the background. One of the more effective ways to derail your own strategy is to literally go to a war and lose it. Yeah. And I think that's probably where there's a sense from America of me thinks the Secretary Doth protest too much. Yeah. It's like you're doing whatever pull-ups and stuff and sending our sons to die. And no one thinks this is like, I don't know, persuasive as a matter of like, oh, this is this. Certainly this is what toughness is beyond even like the makeup, wearing stuff. Or what I want my kids to act like. What I want my son to act like, you know, I mean, anyway, like LeBron plus 25 anyway. I think that that is something we can hold on to. You know, there's there's a lot of discussion and concern around the manosphere and all the stuff. What's happening to young men? And it's like, you know, I do think that like in this moment, like a lot of like young men in particular kind of grasping around for like what a model looks like in this day and age. Like we're not in the area where you go to do manufacturing work really, you know, like a lot of like the traditional jobs from bygone era for men are gone. And they're looking for other models. And it's nice to see they've rejected the p-texath model of putting on a lot of makeup and making fun of trans people. Yeah. Look, to go back to just like sports for a second, clearly there was a play and a playbook that seemed to work for a long time. But something that happens in sports is that you just keep on running that over and over and over and over and over and over again. And then everyone realizes what you're doing. And so we're just at that like Trump too, man, like yeah, you got you needed a new play. You didn't really get one. And sorry, like that's what the polling data is also suggesting as a guard rail. It's that like at some point you actually got to consider that what if your opponent and the voter is like not like the smartest guy in the world, but just like not a cult member. What if that is the case? No, yeah. And I think maybe that is a good observation because I do think there was like the original core Trump base was pretty cultish. Like let's just be honest, they were, they were the fifth avenue people going along with him for everything. A lot of this later group that came in in 24, what are you going to just short, short hand it is the Manusphere road and crowd? Exactly. The Von crowd. They like bought into certain things. Like they wanted to see the Epstein finals. They didn't want to go to stupid wars and they wanted more job opportunities for themselves. And they didn't want to be disrespected. And it's like they've been all of them. And they sure to know it's like wait a minute. Wait a minute. And yeah, look, it made you to take two years into Trump to sort of like get this on the data. Yeah, but I think that's where we are now. And that should be deeply worrisome because your coalition is not a coalition anymore. It's a bunch of people who are like, you don't like the Bengals. And that's that's that's scary if you're dating fans. Alright, we book into this from your college classmate to mine. People will be surprised at me and play. We weren't actually the same year. You know, he was a couple years ahead of me. You might think just kind of looking at our faces that it was like a decade to part, but no, we were in college at the same time and we both posted on the GW Hoops message board together. We were both even posters that naturally, of course, posters were in our jeans. He decided to weigh in on the cheesecake factory. And because we're all the same era and, you know, in the spirit of the subject matter today, I thought we'd listen to his views on the cheesecake factory and see if that kind of aligns with reality. Let's let's watch clip. The degree to which people look down on those of us who go to chain restaurants is, I think, Legion across many different elite parts of society. But I think it's indicative of how out of touch Barack Obama is that he's mocking the cheesecake factory, which is a place that lots of people, including me, for much of my life, saw as an aspirational place to go. I've grown up going to cheesecake factories. If I have the money to be able to afford it, there were lots of times in my life where the cheesecake factory was the most expensive place that we could go to for a fancy dinner. A couple of problems with that. Shout out John Hammond tree on extra pointing this out. Clay was born in 1979. I grew up in Nashville. The first cheesecake factory opened in his hometown in 2005 after he graduated from the George Washington University. So if he had had cheesecake factory growing up, certainly it was aspirational, because it was him and his family on a trip to Los Angeles where the cheesecake factory started. That hot bed of real America, Beverly Hills, Los Angeles. So that would have been a special occasion indeed for Clay and his family. Yeah, I was wondering like what kind of like Horatio Alger story involves the cheesecake factory? Like I'm not like I would rank various. I'm like more of an outback guy. I love a blue man onion. I loved the macaroni grill as a kid. For example, that was an aspirational meal for me and my family. And that makes you a patriot. The idea that you know what Tim, you know what? When I was growing up, time warner cable. Was the company that I saw as an aspiration? Not all. It's just like what are we doing? Like just giant six and it's funny that Trump went to immediately like Obama doesn't like successful companies like totally just like evading the whole thing that everyone's trying to do here. Like the noble savage thing, the self noble savaging thing. He's just like what is a very successful company? This is one of the funnier things among lots of potentially funny things that has come across. I think the new cycle because maybe like two months from now, those clips are going to be played back. And I think it'll look the way that it looks to us to everybody, which is this is and and but it's cocky. It's it's it's it's cacky tan suiting in an era of like top-down pedophile accomplice behavior. I'm just like what are we doing? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I find memories as a child of my father taking me to lion's choice before a Billikens game. And lion's choice is great for people that don't know it. It's kind of a slightly uprand our beast. And you know, we love it. And I go back there when I go to St. Louis, but I don't want the map room in the White House to be decorated like a fucking lion's choice. You know, even though that was an aspirational meal for me as a child. You know, and I mean, like the whole thing is fucking preposterous. And you never even went to a fucking cheesecake victory flag. You didn't do it. You were 20's. You didn't do it. And also the joke was that it was said I'm insane. She's a factor. And we were granting the fact that a dictator was the subject of the sentence that Obama had as the joke. And we're just going to take you on your own terms. And we are now swift boating clay Travis for cheesecake factory stolen valor. We are. And it's true. And he thinks it is audience is stupid. He's right. I don't know. Maybe he's right. He does have a big house. Anyway, all right. That's public. What a joy. Go listen to me and Pablo and Sam. We did like two hours on the pole. A cheesecake factory thick menu of polling data is available for you. That'll make you feel I think shockingly somehow perhaps more encouraged that maybe people can smell bullshit when when it's right in front of their face. And if you're bored of me go do the Kelly Clarkson episodes or go back to the runny cycle. Yep. Said my favorite and the archives. It can't probably toy find out. It's a great show. Pablo, I appreciate you very much brother. It was great to partner on this more in the future. We'll be talking soon, right? As our cheesecake factory correspondent, I look forward to more. Thanks also to Sarah Matthews. And we'll be seeing you back here tomorrow for another edition of the show. Peace. I was in the world, the world that you're getting You can see it's your honor, It's like I'm gonna be on a street ♪ I've been here when we both gonna see ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ I'm gonna try and hear ♪ ♪ Killing your own goal ♪ ♪ And I can be the one ♪ ♪ And I'm the one ♪ ♪ And I'm the one ♪ ♪ I've suffered a lot ♪ ♪ I've suffered a lot ♪ - The Bullwork Daily is brought to you thanks for the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Anzaly Skipper, and with video editing by Dante DeCicco, and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.