Sam Altman’s Big Problem, Mossad & Joe Rogan | James Li

james lee thanks for coming out man dude thanks for having me of course of course it's nice to get you away from san diego to beautiful new jersey you know it's actually a really nice day out this is like look at this beautiful fall day leaves are turning colors i like this guy i like this guy who knows how to play to my weaknesses right here but james i've been seeing your videos in my feed for like a year now and it's like kind of funny because when a lot of your videos will open up it's like you in like the fisherman's hat yeah like looking right into the camera like you gotta see this shit and then it's like something very dark for two and a half minutes and i get educated so what what got you into like i don't know looking deeper on a lot of stuff yeah well the fisherman hat it was like a thing that somebody told me to do because like on tuesdays and sundays i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my which i'm no longer on but they're like hey you have to have something that like people can identify you instantly so i'm like oh this is like probably the ugliest hat that i own but it's also of my favorite baseball player joe musgrove shout out to him i don't want him to be associated with the stuff that i do just in case you know like i go into a lot of shit that he probably does right does not even want to get into but anyways that's the story about the bucket hat and i try i mean i try to make things not as dark as they are no it's fine you know what i mean you're fine it's like you have to go through these issues but with some degree of levity i don't i don't believe in like shutting everything out i don't think ignorance is bliss because then you're you know you're susceptible to like being manipulated 100 you know you want to be ready when you know shit goes down i feel like it's the younger generations now like we that facade was removed at some point here some people took longer than others other people you know maybe the pandemic did it i would say i'm probably like a pandemic guy that really did that for me but the older generations particularly the boomers not to get not to pick on them like they kind of always bought the whole story you know what i mean they did because it worked for them i think it's because genuinely like generally and genuinely when they grew up they're like oh you get a good job you know you have a nice family you get a house and it just like worked and now they've been telling us the same shit and i'm like oh well i have a nice you know degree from a university and i'm like oh well i have a nice university maybe even a master's degree i'm in a ton of debt can't afford a home can't have kids so like is what you're saying is it all a scam and then you start going down these little rabbit holes and like whoa a lot of this is you know just kind of made up when did that start for you i think i had like i mean i think i had a couple different awakenings like one awakening was back in 2016 bernie sanders campaign i was a big bernie guy back then because it was like hillary was coming i think because before that in high school i grew up in a pretty liberal area i would say and i was like kind of a normie dem it's like oh yeah democrats good guy republican bad guy from san diego uh i think san diego has changed a lot over the years yeah they used to be like a big time military city pretty republican but i think in the last 20 years it's pretty democrat now hey guys if you're not following me on spotify please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review they're both a huge huge help thank you but i grew up in an area that was like you know at least maybe the teachers i had they were like you know i remember like oh john kerry was a great candidate you know i remember that back in middle school and so that was the election that i was like oh the democrats are like very corrupt they would go out and basically slandered this guy with all kinds of nonsense because they want to elect their leader they've already chosen this person right so that was my big awakening i was like okay so democrats are not good guys they're like the same as the republicans also bad guys so that was the first big awakening the other one like you said was covid for all of us because i was actually working as a consultant within big pharma when covid happened no shit yeah and so tell me about that so i was i can't say the company because i don't necessarily want to be sued but people can probably guess which one it is because it's like there's three of them that made the vaccines i worked for one of them oh that's narrowing it down yeah and and i'm like this stuff is not uh matching up what they're telling us on the on on the news and the stuff that's going on in the background is not the same about the vaccine it's about the vaccine and the various narratives because when i when covid hit i'm like oh yeah you know lockdown you know we got to save lives like who doesn't want to save lives save grandmas like i don't want to kill grandmas out there so i'm like all right cool but then as the months wore on it's like okay this doesn't make any sense you know the lab leak you start looking into that it's like it does seem like that's probably the most likely explanation right they always tell you what's the easiest explanation what is it like what's that like murphy's not murphy's law it's um whatever that law is i know what you're talking about yeah i don't know what the name of it is it's like um whatever the easiest explanation is probably the correct one yeah it was right next to a fucking lab that was doing coronavirus research yeah the john stewart moment occam's razor thank you joey appreciate that so i told you he's on yeah things were not matching up and so then i it was probably like 2021 at this point or maybe early 22 it's after we all got the first primary doses of the vaccine which i had to take in for because i was at that time i was already a little uneasy about it but i had to take it for my job they said if you don't take the vaccine you don't work anymore isn't that crazy i found that a little crazy especially since they didn't we knew in the background that the testing was not as rigorous as normal vaccines like this shit takes like 10 years of course you know what i mean of course like i was talking to a buddy of mine he's a swiss and he's like dude i know vaccines like we are like top pharmaceutical country and you know how long it takes to make a vaccine it takes 10 years so he didn't take it and he couldn't travel in europe was even worse he like couldn't leave the country for a number of years that's insane and then one day he just could and one day yeah one day for all that shit you're good fam yeah isn't that nuts it's crazy so this is after all that this is in 22 so we were doing a project for this very big pharmaceutical company and we i was a inventory specialist so what i did as my job was to go through all the entire supply chain of this company for all their major products to say how much of it do you have what are you producing how much are you predicted to sell and then we want to make the right amount like you want to not have too much because then if you have too much you have to throw it away it expires you have to write it off take a big loss so you want to you want to optimize that quick question on that did you see i imagine massive supply chain disruptions with covet hitting because of what you guys had relied on before the pandemic shut down all the countries around the world so i have a story that's related to that on another project that i was on that was okay that's indicative we can get back to that but then the story here is that so we were doing this whole analysis of all their major products one of them being the vaccine and the report that we gave them was like hey you're gonna have probably hundreds of millions of dollars at minimum of supply by the end of the year that you're not going to be able to sell and this is just the the valuation of what they call the finished goods like when it's done and then they had a sorry sorry this is i'm trying to remember this is a like five years ago now it was actually the hundred some way back when we were doing this and we were doing this and we were doing this and over a hundred million dollars was in the raw materials, which is like not valued the same as finished goods. So like finished, cause you imagine like, Hey, if you have like, if you're building this table, you have all these like, you know, pieces of wood and screws, like all that separate is worth less than the sum of its parts, right? Once you build the table, it's going to be worth a lot more. So this is just valuating the different pieces, like the raw material that goes into this. And we turned in this report saying, Hey, you got, so, so the, the, the number could be a lot higher is what I'm saying. I understand then, then what we projected. And then I saw the CEO of this company go on, I think it was like CNBC and say, Oh, it's time for another dose of this vaccine. So then I was like, okay, this is bullshit. This is a hundred percent bullshit at that point. So you saw it as he was trying to fill in revenue gaps by pushing more and more. More of the vaccine, which he knew he had in supply to make up for what he was losing on the other shit. That's not, not losing, but it's like, Hey, you have a ton of supply that we just told them. Nobody's buying this. Like we're projecting. Nobody is going to buy this by the end of the year. So then what do you do? You go out there and generate demand for your product to say, well, I think it's time to take another dose. And so on, so on one hand, from a scientific perspective, like, is this how a vaccine is supposed to work? Like, you know, it's like, how many of these doses do you need for it to be effective? Right? It's nuts. And they kept, that was the biggest thing. And it wasn't even just the vaccine. It was everything with it. They would move the goalposts over and over again. And that's when I was first like, wait a second. Like when it turned from two weeks to stop the curve to quietly like, yeah, you know, maybe by the end of the summer, like, yeah, but this is like kind of dying down now. We live, we're all virologists now. Like that's how this works. Right. And they're like, no, no, no, not like that. There's a new strain. And you're just like, are they going to keep, is this like a marketing like tactic? That's what it felt like. That's what it felt like on the inside is that they're trying to squeeze as much revenue out of this as possible. So it's like, how do we extend the life of this product and that's like all big pharma by the way not just this it's like how do we make the the life cycle of this product as long as possible how did you end up working in big pharma like what made you take this job in the first place what was the thought process there there was no thought process so i was working um so i went to the background as i went to business school just down the road here at nyu oh and it was good school yeah i i uh i made this video it's actually now come full circle because when i when i applied for business school i literally said oh i want to work in media specifically the news media because i think there's a big problem with how media works it's lying to everybody and i want to i want to go in to like change the business you know process of it to like do good news and also you know i want to go in to like change the business you know process of it to like do good news and also you know make money doing it good luck and then immediately when i got to the program the advisor was like you're never going to get a job in media you should probably think about either banking or consulting because that's two big pipelines that we have here and consult consulting firms don't basically hire anybody if you're you know somewhat interesting person and you can talk and bullshit and whatever that's exactly what they told me i feel like they they just tell people that at these schools and it's not untrue because then i'm like i'm literally i've never worked at a big company and i started recruiting for consulting so i got hired by a consulting firm and when you get there when you're first hired you basically just go on any project that they have a spot for you so then i just ended up on a pharmaceutical project got it okay see all right that's that's an interesting distinction because it's not like you were going in there as like i'm working for a big car pharma company as like a consultant for them literally it's where you got assigned to that project so that's also like fortuitous because you got to go into something kind of like eyes wide open like okay cool this is our next project and then you see one of if not like the biggest industry in the world that has continually paid off politicians and apparently all of our news networks for years and years and years at the most critical time by the way where they fucked everything up and you get to be like oh wait a second this is all it's all bullshit and it brings you back to what you originally wanted to do exactly go back to like media and telling the truth on things so then that's why while i was working for a big car pharma company i was like oh my god i'm going to i was still there i started doing a video on the weekends because what happened after covid was we basically stopped traveling because before covid i was probably on the road i think in 2019 this is when like right you know 2020 covid 2019 i think i had like 180 hotel nights that year in 20 holy if you listen to this show you know joey deef loves debt ain't that right beef that's right i love it but that's the thing with debt if you're gonna take it on you better have a clear plan to pay it off and you're gonna have to pay it off and you're gonna have to pay it off and you're gonna have to pay it off which is why joey deef uses monarch not the cia program the finance app with monarch's debt pay down simulator and visualizer you can track your progress to see how quickly you're getting to the finish line does watching your debt timeline motivate you joey deef sure does how does the steady visible progress make you feel makes me feel like i am working it off finally that's right another thing monarch lets you do is play out your options and pick the fastest one you can essentially run different payment scenarios side by side and instantly see how much sooner each one gets you to paying off your debt so you're in control of the plan with quick 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these like manufacturing sites we're going to their headquarters like every week i'd be traveling somewhere all over the country or all over the world uh all over the world i was going to there because this is like a big company i was going to their plate you know their factories in japan and germany and puerto rico basically everywhere um and then it rhymes with schmeiser the swiss thing though i was thinking it rhymes with schmenica but we'll see anyway uh so that's so basically off the road so then i started just like doing videos on the weekends i was like hey i'm gonna start looking into how shit works and it was like if you look back they're like horrible videos but i just post you know one video every single week for i think i did this for probably like a year while still still there while still there didn't fire you good for you i don't think they i mean it was like not i think there were like a couple hundred people watching these videos i know but that's like if they found that that's like the equivalent of finding your only fans they're like oh god we gotta get him out of here he's telling the truth yeah so then i was like living a double life basically because like on the weekdays i'd be going in doing powerpoints you know whatever excel spreadsheet work working for the devil and on a weekend i'm like dude these guys are fucking us in the ass big time and for that's for people who don't like being fucked in the ass and people enjoy that i'm using that as a we don't judge yeah yeah exactly they're they're screwing us big time yes in other words against our will yes so then i did that for another yeah year or so before i was like i can't take it and i i actually had a meeting so basically i was i was brought in by my boss and he was he was asking me hey you know and it was it was framed in a way you know how these corporate environments work you were there and they're like oh what do you know what are you interested in like where do you see yourself in five years and i was just like so honest with him i'm just said not here right the fucking words out of my mouth bro because the thing is if i stayed there i just looked at the guy and he wasn't too much older than me but he was like i'm not here i'm not here i'm not here i'm not here i'm not here i'm not here but he was like a partner at the firm and i'm like i don't and that would be the best case scenario is like i end up in your position and i just thought no i don't want that right and and then immediately within like three weeks i was pulled off the project and i was put on a performance improvement plan yeah i'm not kidding special ed yeah and you know about those at work a pip is what they do right before they fire you to say oh this guy sucks and i was given like i was like why am i being put on this they're like well you're making a lot of typos you sure it's not what i said yeah meeting about my future and it was a nice meeting too because i think if it was he was honest like we could have had a real conversation and said hey let's try to phase you out this is obviously not where you want to be let's plan for that and you know let's let's put you on a trajectory versus like kind of a gaslighting thing where he was just like oh you actually suck at this job i'm like no i'm fucking pretty good and so in this in this process of like me going on a performance improvement plan i would go on a different project because they want another independent evaluator and this is the funny thing that happened was like when i got fired the other manager that i was working for was like dude i was just about to put you on another project like what the hell is going on here so like they weren't even so it was like already a foregone conclusion i was gone and i wasn't fighting because i'm like i'm out of here anyways but that's just kind of like the scam of corporate america is that they make you feel like you're doing something important and you're like a critical part of the operation but at the end of the day they're just gonna get rid of you if they want to and you're just a cog you're just a cog in the machine and and what's really sad is like i've seen this so many times where people who are brilliant people maybe actually like do good work too yeah they're just you know whatever it is whether it's in consulting or banking or actual corporate america self-pushing product and whatever they're put in one thing they do it at a high level and it reminds me of like horse in animal farm it's like such a waste of talent and they're not actually like they don't have to use their intellect to do something good it's just what's the latest quarterly gonna be and that that's no way to live to me that is unfortunate because i i did like in business school that that was one thing because it when we were there like there were some things that they taught us that was like actually interesting and insightful they're like making an observation of all the best and brightest people typically right now are going into an an industry where they basically are trying to sell you an ad like if you think about all the technology companies they're advertising companies like if you go work for meta you're doing advertising 100 versus like trying to actually figure out something to like let's say like fix the power grid or like build better bridges and roads and health care and whatever other stuff because everything even in big pharma where they're like oh yeah we're saving lives like no you're not you're just trying to monetize people's sickness it's not about curing anybody it's about creating a drug that everybody has to take daily weekly subscription model exactly yeah in perpetuity it's not about like oh you take this for a little while and then you're cured yes you know that's the same right now with the glp ones i spoke out a lot about that i'm like this is not good for you because you have to take it forever or else it doesn't work and at the same time it's like making your bones like break and causing all kinds of other health issues speaking of researchers also with the glp ones we still have so much time we need to even get studies to prove all the yeah all the actual benefits versus like what the downsides might be on things and you're right people are just buying these like it's fucking jelly beans and that's the end because i think i have a pretty split audience because i'm not like a a partisan voice so i have people on both sides who watch my stuff and what i notice is like on the more liberal side they still think like big pharma is good they still have a very high um approval rating of like anthony fauci like whenever i talk about this covet stuff they get very angry because they still view him as like this like anti-trump person that stood up to him during covid that's interesting yeah i i've seen some of that for sure there's some people it's very hard to admit like you were very very wrong about something like that especially when it was like you know you were canceling people around you and yeah cost them their job because they didn't listen to the fucking retarded italian guy but you know i will say i've seen personally like we have an audience that's literally all over the board and i have seen way more of like yeah it wasn't a great idea from people which is better than nothing you know because it was that showed that period showed the worst of human nature in my opinion and like there's people who want vengeance for that who had their whole lives upended and i understand that you know because hopefully hopefully more people maybe not some of the people you've been talking to will learn that the error of their ways is that that was not a good time at all and and the and the the stances people took were morally wrong yeah i think that's a that's i think to me like that's probably like a um a byproduct of like just hyper partisanship it's like this is our guy so we're gonna like go to bat for our guy and my point is you know the big awakening during covid is like this is not your guy like these big businesses big pharma they're not on the side of people that's right right the the overall takeaway i got before that i was like oh business is you know out there trying to do good for people that was the the slogan of nyu when i was there you know they they push us all this propaganda the whole thing they tell us is like oh we're in the business of doing good and you come to find no it's all at the end of the day it's still really about making money and that was the part that i just could not like stomach is that we're just you know people are all they are are just kind of like widgets or they're just a way for you to to monetize your product and at the end of the day they're not human beings you know they're just inputs that's all they are. Those are the ones i didn't realize what a similar background you and i have because i i was in business school as well and like i came out to because they said be a banker or consultant yeah same exact thing i was like well all right those banks offer me a fucking job and then you get out there and like obviously you have made a brand off of the fact that you are a very independent thinker which is great but you go into these machines where that is completely discouraged and something like i can speak for my brain and it sounds like this is how your brain was working. Correct me if i'm wrong but like it like misfires in your brain like the wires get crossed and you're like wait a minute how are you not seeing this like how can you not understand that like we could there could be another answer here to something and people are like no no that's not how we do things here totally and that's never an answer no i in fact i learned about firsthand like what happens when you speak up because i was literally in a meeting there was like the head of this company representative and the equivalent counterpart in consulting so we have is like in the company there's there are these partners that are in charge of the relationships with these companies there's like one partner that the head of that relationship were you in a big four yeah okay yeah i was i mean i think i could say right i was working at i was working at a big four but like a boutique within that big four that they acquired so i was in like this like strategy arm of this big four company eny you probably heard it oh yeah yeah they got a big office up here they do in hoboken i was there as well as they have one in hudson yards no yeah um but that's how so in this meeting they were kind of like you know going around to the people of the project they're like oh tell me about you know how you like your job and what interesting things you're working on and part of our one of our work streams was literally like hey how do we outsource some of these manufacturing plants that we have here in the u.s because it's actually if you look at it from like a pure financial perspective you actually don't want to make anything because when you make stuff it drags down your working capital you have to pour a lot of money into managing this inventory you have all this capex into this into this huge manufacturing plan they're like what if we created like a shell company or like another company would do the manufacturing and i just kind of raised my hand it's like do you really want to do this this is the core competency of this company is to produce these drugs and if you think they're actually important life-saving products that are going to make a difference in the time of crisis wouldn't you want that capacity within your own company or you know from a nationalistic perspective like why do you want to outsource to some european or some indian biopharma manufacturing firm it doesn't make any sense and then i was like after the meeting you know they're like you probably shouldn't say those things you know in front of the leader of the company well it's it unfortunately is a stereotypical that has happened in america and like i've lived in new jersey my whole life i would never want to live more than an hour from ocean that's just me that said i did one of the things i really learned ironically working on the coast after college like in a bank was how much people in spaces like that don't give a about the people who live in all the states in between california and new york if you will and yet i would look at it i'm like but hold on a second these people are the lifeblood of like our sustenance i know like this is where all the fucking farmers are this is where if there's any manufacturing left this is where a lot of that is as well these are people that are getting left behind over and over again regardless of their political preferences everyone's them from washington dc and like this isn't a problem they're like no because it the bottom line exactly so you know what i'm saying it's crazy man and that and that was like the thing that was actually i'm actually grateful i had that opportunity because the way the project was structured i was both talking to like kind of the suits the bean counters as well as the people who are working at these manufacturing sites because i would visit these people you know kansas iowa you know all all in like kind of the middle of america that you're talking about and they actually believe in the job they're like hey we need to keep these lines open to produce these drugs in times of crisis and to your question earlier about supply chain that was the big difference because constantly from the corporate side they're like cut everything we need to have the perfect amount of inventory like you know if you have a demand if you're going to sell 10 we want 10 and a half units available you know basically the exact amount yeah and a lot of these people on the lines are like no no we don't want that because after the the farm i was working for another big company like one of the big diversified manufacturing companies in the us and we're literally telling them because they were trying to hit a year-end goal of a certain like cash amount so we're like just stop buying you know supplies basically and the people on the line were like if we don't buy this this line will shut down and we will basically go out of stock and and this is like one of the i would i would characterize this company as like pretty critical for you they make a lot of stuff that we use all the time and so we and this is post-coveted and this is postcode this is like a year this is like a couple years into covid after all the manufacturing you know the supply chain disruptions and i'm just thinking well don't we want to like guard against that don't we want you know to have more because it's not like they can't afford it it's just more like they're trying to hit a target so then their stock price bumps up 35 cents you know it's this this kind of thing 100 it's not like these companies are running short on cash and it's just like oh we need to do this or else we're insolvent this is more like there's a certain you know whatever eps that we're trying to hit for wall street and this will help us get there yeah i mean and i mean to pick on them in in particularly but like go look at detroit is that is that what you want all middle america to look like because that place used to be like the most booming manufacturing place in america the literally like where assembly assembly lines began where the american dream of like being able to get the house right in the suburbs there with the white picket fence and have kids that could go to a college you could actually afford and and try to move up in the world that's where that i don't want to say that's where it was born but that was where it was a great example of that and then suddenly they're like you know we can do this for 35 cents less or whatever yeah three dollars less in china or in bangladesh or whatever so all these people and it just it's like it's like when you see someone pull the tablecloth off the table and everything just comes with it gone overnight and i worry like it's happening in other places america as we speak but i worry about when that happens everywhere and what are all those people going to what were they telling them 10 years ago learn to code or whatever like it doesn't work like that dude no and that's the and the sad part is like you know you know we just had the election happen both parties they basically always run the winning party typically runs on the same platform which is like affordability returning jobs to america ending the wars they always run on that and they win but then when they get into office their donors are all the big corporations that go entirely against this whole policy program and then they just screw over americans time and time again and i actually speaking of detroit um this is back in college i you know the the the girl i was dating then her family her whole family on one side are factory workers for ford all of them and so i you know i've been in detroit a couple times and you know it's not as bad it's like it's it's it's definitely not what it once was but these people still like are very proud of what they do and they just get constantly screwed over like one side they're like okay we used to be democrats now we're republicans and then now they're screwing us big time let's go back to democrats and this is like i'm like how many times are you guys gonna do this before you realize they're both picking your pockets in just slightly different ways you know they they have all these scams that they're running like the republicans i think they're they run these scams that are you know the insider trading all this kind of stuff and and you know all the fraud that we're seeing with the trump administration it's a very very typical symbolic of what they do the democrats have a slightly different scheme that i've looked into which is a lot of the california schemes which is funneling a lot of these money towards non-profits that supposedly help people then they just take all that money and they don't actually do anything about it and they don't do anything with it for example the homeless stuff oh it's insane it's insane how much money these these these non-profits are getting without having to show any result like there's there are non-profits that are raking in what the one i can think of was like 30 million dollars a year let's say and they house 37 people that that was their final thing and i'm like dude you could buy these people mansions at the very least and so they just kind of do fraud in a different way and that's why people are excited about change and and i just have to like constantly be the party pooper until you yeah this is it's not gonna it's not gonna work like you know the republic like literally this is what trump ran on in 2024 and 2016 no more wars affordability you've heard me talk about my dad and the wall he hit in his 50s with his testosterone before he was doing all the same things right eating pretty well working out on his normal schedule sleeping decently and yet he would often feel his energy drop and he would feel like he was going to die and he would feel like he would drop off faster or not be there at all his workout recovery sucked and daily life started to feel like just kind of going through the motions it was 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your money back best case you can join over 91 percent of users who report higher energy levels thanks to marsman for a limited time only our listeners are going to get 50 off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts at men go to mars.com that link is in my description below that's men go to mars.com link in my description below for 50 off and three free gifts when you check out after you purchase they're going to ask you where you heard about them please support our show and tell them i sent you and then now the democrats are running on the same thing so he's like do you think they're actually going to do that they've run on that in the past so anyway i don't want to get all doomer you know i don't want to get black pill too early in this in this uh pod i don't know that the black pill is being doomer there's a level of cynicism with it that yeah that i've recognized before of course because like i'm very much like you in in that department but you also kind of have to spread that message and show the results of i'll even say every decade since at least world war ii i could go back farther than that to be clear but show what this has been with the pendulum and show where the money has entered politics on both sides of the aisle and where it just becomes one cause changes the last time it was like they were censoring you know when you had biden there was like censorship with there's fucking 47 genders you have to take the jab or we're gonna lock up your family on a concentration camp or whatever the fuck they were saying you know by the way doesn't matter how we pull out of wars we'll do what we want and just pay off the taliban like all shit like that and then you look at the trump administration it's a different set like it's okay they recognized there's not 47 genders great but yo let's start an endless war that we told you we wouldn't start by the way they're raping all the kids fuck it we'll hire them you know and then the economy that really doesn't matter like you got to pay more for gas go fuck yourself iran can't have a nuke and yeah i know people don't like israel we're gonna pay them more like and they're gonna keep paying us in politics they're just doing the opposite of what they're doing they're just doing what people want and then the pendulum just swings again and now we'll see it swing some other way at some point here yeah i think the only thing that really changes maybe the culture changes like you talk about but like as soon as the democrats get get into power who do you think the big tech oligarchs are gonna kiss ass too it's the same sam altman already last night in a text was like basically dem coded talking points you know already they're like they're gonna kiss the democrats ass and you know the israelis are gonna do the same thing they're gonna be like whoever is going to do it we're just going to give them loads of money and that's why i don't think anything can really be fixed on a systemic level unless the incentive structure changes in that if you actually rake in a ton of money you don't win right because that's who controls policy is like whoever even if i'm going to give you 30 million dollars you're kind of you owe me big time fuck yeah but if you actually you know go to the voters and the voters give you the money or if you're indebted to the voters then you have to kind of do what they say which is kind of the whole point of how many of these democrats who win and and good on them for winning right but are they actually going to fundamentally change the system or is it going to go back to literally a joe biden-esque kind of uh regime where they do the same thing right it's like if you remember the war i mean yeah trump started this war in iran but joe biden also proceeded to to like nuke gaza basically allowed netanyahu to destroy an entire civilization funded a proxy war in ukraine for all the years in and then trump continued that even when it looked like he wasn't going to it's it's it's birds of the same feather i i couldn't agree more deep did you see the jd vance tweet he put out right before james got here i didn't i can pull it yeah can we pull that up real quick i just it's a long one yeah it's i saw that it's a tldr but like it's hard not to laugh at this because it's like my brother in christ people were telling you this a year and a half ago but i i want to read it because political talking points damage control in my opinion it's on his personal i think if you go to jd vance's twitter he's like why did we lose this election it's like a bill ackman style yes that's exactly what i was thinking did he delete it i hope not no here it is okay one of the things the data analysts on our side obsessed over was composition whether the electorate looked close enough to 2024 or not for republicans to win and despite polls that showed a democrat blowout the data kept on telling us the same story in some states turnout was merely okay in other states it was downright amazing and in no state was it catastrophic there was a genuine sense of optimism on our team our people were showing up so i asked this i think he says smartest guy in this tweet like four different times there's a lot of smart guys apparently so i asked the smartest data guy i know does that mean we're going to shock the world no he told me we might do better than the polls suggest but the data is telling us that the trump vance 2024 voters are pissed and planning to vote for the other guys our voters are turning out but they may not want to vote for us well that looks prophetic now our voters did show up in florida for example the electorate was nine points more republican democrat just a couple points worse than 2024 undoubtedly there were places we could have done better on turnout but the main problem is not turnout the main problem is the many people who voted for trump vance in 24 voted for dems in 26 there will be a lot of infighting and arguing over what happened and why that is one of the pollsters i really respect told me that our economic messaging wasn't sharp enough down the stretch man who forged his fucking transcript i'm sure that's true but the real reason we lost is obvious to almost everyone another pollster one of the smartest people i know in politics told me yesterday we'd lose the generic ballot by 13 points i felt negative going into tuesday but even i was shocked by this in his polling he saw that a lot of trump 24 voters were angry and planning to vote for democrats he asked those voters who had abandoned us what would cause them to come back on our team the top four answers accounting for nearly all the responses were one end of the war two focus on cost of living slash inflation so the economy three put america first that would make sense and four change our relationship to israel our voters showed up and the above four reasons are why many of them voted for democrats this is according to a pollster who nailed the results while many spent monday attacking rachel campos duffy for calling for a diplomatic revolution resolution to the conflict it turns out her political advice was sound she's also a great person apparently in the next few months i don't know who the fuck that is in the next few months there's going to be a lot of gaslighting expect to hear by a number of established politicians say the solution to our votes is amnesty i'm open to the idea that we should change enforcement but focusing more on businesses than hire a legal label that that hire illegal labor for example but anyone pushing amnesty is lying to you the reason we lost is the war the president himself said so last night If you'd like to argue it was worth it, losing the senate for the next six years was worth it then do so argue it was a worthwhile cost to pay agree or disagree that's the least that's at least honest but everyone knows why we lost and any conversation about where to go from here must start there and then he goes into something about the country and all that but like those four reasons were laid out by june 2025 i would argue when they did the first bombing in iran because it's like wow we just bombed another country for israel they're paying off fucking trump he just said the epstein files aren't real which strangely didn't put that on the list by the way and you know this may cost our economy long term and we might get involved in a war here with them we didn't vote for that and then they still continue to do all that shit so to me james what it says is looking at the republicans here in this case they have to be ideologically captured and by ideologically captured i mean money because they're doing all the opposite of what their polls would have told them not to do right and it's still happened so you have to wonder what exactly is going on here there's probably i mean there's a conspiratorial angle that i've heard bubbling up which is sort of interesting i don't know if it's going to be true or not but it's kind of insinuating that jd vance because he said kind of all the right things there that seems all kind of sane analysis i would say right those are four things that americans want and they didn't do it is that it's setting up for some kind of jd vance takeover of trump i've heard in the background and i'm sure you've heard a lot of people talking about this and you've heard as well sourcing that trump is going to be out within the next six months for whatever reason like by you know the middle of the next year that he's going to be gone and that's why i don't know that that's the part where this is all sort of speculation but i can definitely see how they're kind of setting up jd to take over the party so they're like hey let's escape go like we're kind of done with trump let's get rid of him at this point let's get jd in there this which is pretty much like known or a lot of people speculate that jd was the one that leaked to tucker that they were going to nuke iran oh people think jd leaked that that's what i've read i don't know if you heard differently i haven't heard anything one way or the other i just saw the tweet you saw the tucker tweet right where he basically said hey trump is thinking about nuking iran it's insane so they're kind of setting up trump to be this crazy deranged madman so maybe he could be impeached maybe he has health issues i don't know but it's kind of setting up a jd takeover which i think is what maybe peter teal like the funders of this whole scheme maybe want because the jd is the guy that they actually want it was never really trump it was always jd so maybe they're setting something up that's obviously speculating from a political you know calculation perspective but i kind of would entertain that a little bit it's interesting that they be lying that up still though and never put rebranding past people with a lot of money who can pay to make it happen but it's interesting they're still doing that after he has just been kind of cucked over and over and over again like he allegedly didn't support the iran war and then had to sit in there and be like listen i support the president you know it's like your job as vp but at the same time it makes you look like a bitch it does i mean he but he is sort of a bitch he is literally a manchurian style candidate and that's kind of what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him i don't know what's going on with him and i would say to the people that are more like conspiracy side of things is that like i don't think there's a one world government or there's some kind of unified plan i think there's a ton of people jockeying for power in these places and they kind of smell when the moment is right obviously the voters they can i mean anybody like smartest guys in the room or not you could tell like anybody could see that the republic republicans were going to get slaughtered like it didn't take like a rocket scientist to do that it didn't take like a rocket scientist to do that it didn't take like a rocket scientist to do that it didn't take like a rocket scientist to predict that so what they do is okay let's say we do get slaughtered what's our next move to maintain power that's what i would naturally think would happen so this would be a good moment because before that trump has been kind of very strong you couldn't really take him down for whatever reason like the voters always backed him he was always able to to bounce back from anything so they kind of had to deal with trump in in that sense but now it's like okay maybe trump is vulnerable maybe we can finally get our guy in i'm just speculating here um but i think i think this is to me this isn't really a conspiracy this is just more like political you know maneuvering that's how the game worked yeah yeah no i i i think that could be a fair theory it's just interesting they'd pick him at this point it like two years ago i'd have been like of course he's totally created which he is by like the peter teals of the world and you can follow the money with that but i what's really weird about trump this time around is like obviously the press hates him that didn't change but the vitriol from the press like the volume decibels in his first two years were nothing like his first four years like they kind of like accepted it yeah like well you know caitlin collins well he shut down cnn again yeah you know it wasn't like jim acosta like fuck you you know like like it's more like all right here it is which i could never understand it's gonna be interesting to see if now that flips because like i guess they have the house and senate but i i haven't been able to get around why that is when he's objectively messed so many more things up i would argue this time around than even the first time around it could just be like they're they're worn down or they're also part of the same plan they're they're not planned but they're all a part of the same group of people like especially the mainstream media they're not that different i mean they're already you know reporting that the democrats are calling trump you know jared kushner pre-election was like a big deal for them and they're like oh yeah we're gonna have a big deal with hakeem jeffries that's your guy jared kushner what do you mean my guy that's not my guy i don't take ownership over that guy although like i was telling you before we started we did go to the same mba program well you got in and on merit he didn't i made an elwood style uh video they're actually back in the i don't think they're doing this anymore but at the time i was applying part of the application you could submit a video essay really yeah wow so i made a fucking fantastic video essay and i didn't even use my i didn't have any assets to show like you know legally blonde but i made a very compelling case why i should respect i'll bet he didn't do that i don't i think it was a what daddy made a call kind of thing that's right yeah right but um forgot what i was sorry you were talking about jared kushner basically i think you were starting to get to like the influence he has in the administration without being elected or anything oh right right okay so i think it's a is sort of like this hitler-esque figure which is what they've been doing for the last you know however many number of years after you win an election against him in a resounding way there should be no reason to call this guy or work together or whatever this thing is like with the media like if this guy is actually that bad you wouldn't even give him the same amount of respect so it's like okay what's going on here they're all part of the same scheme i already saw this morning uh which is kind of interesting cnn interviewing james talarico asking him if he was going to denounce abdul el saeed cnn asked him that yeah do we have this clip that's interesting there is a guy yeah what was the logic there what were they because abdul is with muslim brotherhood or whatever and so they're already kind of dividing again so it's like okay let's just let's start another wave of drama right i feel like that's what the press really does is like let's just do drama let's get the same the guys on like the same page team to hit each other yeah that's i mean it's hard to argue that if that's what they were doing that's hilarious they were asking him like the guy got elected like an hour ago they're like do you announce the other guy that got elected you have it right there i think i saved i might have liked it so i can well there was a there was a woman there was a woman in michigan who was like a democrat and then like flipped her fucking endorsement to mike rogers the republican oh and there's like a whole story that's because like her husband flipped hayley stevens right or something yeah i think that's her name yeah oh i haven't tweeted on my um on james lee yeah i just see the talarico syed thing yeah cnn doing the work of their overlords which is to divide and conquer but yeah hayley hayley stevens is also like this she's not mentally fit to be a representative of anybody right if that's what she's doing right with the yeah yeah and you couldn't have picked a better husband right and i was joking around i'm like that's who she got as the massad agent like that's she got the short end of the stick there you know usually these got the cash patel thing going yeah one eye hunting one eye fishing all right wait deep has this clip at talarico let's see this but you are walking into washington dc where a lot of people are going uh with their jerseys on right even in your own party abdul al-sayyad that race has been called he is on the far left of of your party there are a lot of things he may believe in that that you may not share with him but he's on the far left of your party are you going to stand up and i remember the gentleman uh at our town hall who asked you that right he was talking uh they were talking about voter id in that particular case but are you going to stand up to the democrats in washington are you willing to do that are you willing to vote against your own party i will stand up to anyone i have to anyone i can to help the people of texas and this is what i've done for four terms in the state house long before the Senate race, long before I was doing interviews on cnn i was working quietly in the halls of the legislature with both parties with far-right republicans and far-left democrats to pass 60 bipartisan bills bills that raise teacher pay bills that lower the cost of housing and child care property taxes and boilerplate wow will you go vote against your own party right away right away yeah right away hold on i'm getting fed something from barry what's that what's oh we don't like outside got it got it all right i'll ask him about that that's crazy man it is such a fucking it's all just a show like in the godfather when he says the peasant on the string that's what it is shopping for a new mattress can feel like a hassle too many choices too many inflated prices ghost bed makes it simple not only are their mattresses priced up to 50 less than comparable brands they also ship fast too most customers get their mattress in just two to five days which means by next week you could be sleeping better on a bed that's built for comfort and durability ghost bed is a family-owned company backed by over 25 years of mattress making expertise every mattress is designed with cooling features to keep you comfortable all night and built to last with a 20 to 25 year warranty plus you'll get a 101 night sleep trial just to make sure it's the right fit and if you're not sure where to start ghost beds mattress quiz can help 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discord amongst americans 100 right yeah you want to create an entertaining show but you also at the end of the day provide a service that's hopefully going to better the direction of the country versus like i don't know what that was supposed to accomplish other than trying to basically ruin any kind of progress that could possibly be made now he has to go out and go against his colleague who just won right who's supposedly on his the same side right it's and and i would even say like we are in the entertainment industry and it's called like the show or the podcast and stuff like that this is a political news network tracking the news that is in with the actual people who are supposed to be passing the laws and stuff playing the game of like all right games i'm gonna ask you about this you hit him and then you know full kardashian style he'll hit you back later it's gonna be good for the polls because you both get like that's what's crazy to me because they're they're in on it and i don't have to get into all the fucking intelligence leaks that they've had for fucking six decades over there it's nuts to me it's nuts that people still tune in but unfortunately it's mostly the boomers and they are a big voting bloc still they are but i think it's declining but we all become boomers at some point it's like not just i don't want to denigrate boomers right people as they get older they just kind of become set in their ways i don't know what it is i'm trying you know i think the best people in the world are able to avoid that you see some of the older folks out there thinking very sharp which i like you know able to change course and i want to be one of these people that's like constantly evaluating you know the the the the the the the evaluating whether or not I am dogmatic about something or open to new information that is coming at me to change my mind. I think that's the sign of somebody who's like really critically thinking is have they ever changed their mind based on new information? For example, the COVID thing for me personally, in the beginning, I was all for, I was like, yeah, let's do this. But then I got new information and said, this is actually sort of a scam. Right. No, it's a great point, man. I have a lot of respect for people that are willing to see something that has more evidence behind it, come up and be like, you know what, I was wrong. And it's a hard thing to do, especially if you're like really dug in on something or certain something, but it's also a hard thing to do to keep yourself honest on that because it requires massive self-reflection all the time, you know? And then like, I think of some things that, you know, bipartisan that I feel strongly about that a lot of people out there do as well. And you know, I think of some things that, you know, I feel strongly about that a lot of people do as well. And you know, I think of some things that, you know, I feel strongly about that a lot of would take some unbelievable evidence to get me off of it. You think of something like the Epstein files or something like that. If someone was like, oh, that's all fake, you better have the greatest evidence I've ever seen in my life. But like, you'd like to think that if someone actually did present that, you would be able to say that, you know? And it's easier said than done because then you face it. And we see a lot of people, I've failed that test in the past myself, but we see a lot of people fail on that all the time. And unfortunately, on social media today, they're incentivized to do that because you are incentivized to have an extreme opinion. At all times, no matter what, to get a click, regardless of what direction it's in. Yeah. And I do think that there is like a, an operation to like infiltrate free thinking people. And I saw this a little bit, I don't know how you felt about it. Cause I don't think you talked about it, but there was this plane crash in Florida. We haven't talked about it yet. Can you tell people who haven't somehow seen that? Yeah. So there was a plane crash that happened a few days ago in Florida. It was a small private jet that like just sort of nosedived into the ground. It was crazy. Caught on dash cam and immediately like a lot of the people that I follow, you know, that I'm in that same circle with, because I think my content involves looking into like corruption and that naturally implies or is indicative of a conspiracy. And so that butts me up against like conspiracy theorists and stuff like that. And you want to hear all the theories before you go somewhere. But I heard so many people say like, Oh, this is like a missile. And this is not an actual airplane and that they're actually trying to take out Trump. And I'm like, you know, this is like an Israeli propaganda thing because they know on, because we've been trying, we've been lied to so many times by the mainstream media about things that, you know, they present as one thing, but it actually turns out to be another. And here's another situation where you see online and people are like, Oh, was this an airplane? Was this a missile? Like what was going on? Was it shot down by, you know, anti-aircraft defense systems? And then you start to sow this discord amongst people that we have, maybe this isn't, it's very weird. It's like, why is there no, or what happened to the airplane or where are the engines? And when I trace that back, I'm like, this is an Israeli propaganda thing where they're trying to get people to say that we are under attack. This is an Iranian terrorist, failed terrorist plot trying to kill Trump. And therefore we need to reignite the war with Trump again, or sorry, reignite the war against Iran. And so I do think there's like an operation to kind of like get into the minds of people who are questioning things. And then, you know, there's a lot of people who are like, Oh, this is an Israeli propaganda thing. And then there's a lot of people who are like, Oh, this is an Israeli propaganda thing. And so I do think inject something that they might run with, right? Because people are like, I don't believe anything in the media. If they tell us it's an airplane, it's probably not an airplane, but then they're actually, you know, myself, I would throw myself in that category of like, now we're susceptible to new information that we're biased towards to, to then help them do their propaganda. Cause I think they're constantly also evolving their ways in, in their messaging as well. Cause I saw that this is a completely separate thing, but I, I was looking into, um, the reporting on how, you know, how they're like putting glyphosate basically in all the foods. Oh yeah. And the, the, uh, the, the PR person for, um, Bayer was out there saying the WHO, they don't know what they're talking about. The WHO is saying this is cancer causing WHO. I don't know what they're talking about. And I'm like, wow, how perfect is that? Because we're taught through COVID to antagonize or the WHO is the enemy. And now they're they've identified, Hey, people don't like the WHO. So now we can use them as a scapegoat to say, Oh my God, they're wrong about this. Actually. They glyphosate, they say glyphosate causes cancer. They don't know shit. And so I saw that with that issue. And so I'm like, is the same thing happening here as well? They know people are like not believing what the mainstream media is reporting. So let's inject some, some doubt in there. Oh, I agree with you on that. And then people run with it without realizing, Oh, they're actually just feeding into their. Plot. That's my opinion. That's my take. I think it's a, unfortunately, like a really hot take and a really potentially good take. I think about this a lot. I actually thought about this after COVID was kind of done in like 2024, I started kicking the tires on this. And I said, what if, and this is total, I don't have any evidence to like, this is the case. It's pure spec in every possible way. But so what if they did this business model, which you described it that way too, which is interesting of like putting this vaccine out, made you psychological tactics to make everyone fight over it and pick a side and divide society so that you could guarantee that you were able to put percentages of society in a future if presented with a similar scenario or something like that. And what if you were actually developing or maybe already developed something like a cancer vaccine or something like that. And you used an event like this to make sure that half the population. would not take that motherfucker in the future even if it actually worked even if it would let's say they actually did it right it had 40 year studies it wasn't they weren't injecting you with like bill gates sperm or some shit like it was actually real and i you know i have no idea but i'm like damn that'd be a hell of a little psychological population cleanser oh you think they're doing that because they want to use that as a means to control or to depopulate yeah maybe no i don't necessarily think that i'm saying i don't take that out of the realm of possibility i throw on my tinfoil hat and i go hmm that'd be an interesting logical you know kind of psyop there that would that would be interesting because that that would well that would for that to be true because let's dig into that a little bit you know for that to be true that means the manufacturers of these vaccines would be somehow in cahoots with folks who want to depopulate right and i because i don't believe right i'm gonna say right to that so that you can keep going um there's a semantics argument there but yes let's say right and there is like some overall strategy that they're all bought in on which i would probably push back and say i'm not so sure if there's that level of coordination if for this particular theory that's what you made you're probably right um but i can tell you that they probably knowing um the manufacturers of you know being coming from that space a vaccine would be something that you know i more see like the 50 50 as like you you can kind of guarantee that people are going to take this and then there's another side of like hey for those people we have another drug that if you don't want to take a vaccine we have like this thing that you take every week so it creates more revenue opportunity oh that's interesting so it's not just one type of layer yeah yeah because there's always going to be people who don't want to take a vaccine and they're not going to take a option a because they don't like for whatever reason ideological or they did some research on it they just don't like vaccines so then you open up another revenue channel yeah that's not a vaccine technically that's just that would be my but who knows no that's really that's that's very reasonable i i think it's just a matter of like just one of many examples of where if you can use an opportunity to destroy all trust in in in say institutions if you will deservedly so by the way but if you can lean into that to incentivize the institutions putting themselves in a position to have that trust destroyed you can then use that same thing that boomerang back against people in the future when maybe people in an institution actually might be right about something for once in their fucking life and be like well remember just like you were saying remember they were all wrong about that remember the who guy giving you like the paper airplane or whatever to have to take the fucking jab and then people are like oh my god i don't know like oh yeah that must be fake and it's actually something that would help them it does make you think when you talk about the glyphosate thing it does make you think um and i'm not like what's your take on the depopulation thing because that that's one thing i'm not like completely sold on that that's like a wef sort of globalist agenda to depopulate i'm not completely sold on it either because it doesn't quite make sense i think it's maybe a fine byproduct that they'll deal with later let's say they they do gain a function and it goes goes out of hand you know gets out of hand and and a lot of people die there's going to be a way to monetize that for whatever reason i just don't think that like the billionaires are building their bunkers but they would probably prefer not to use the bunkers but they're ready for it so it's like an opportunistic thing that comes up i just think my thinking is that like i don't know if anybody is like truly so coordinated and nefarious that they would be like all right let's release the pandemic on people but they think well there is a chance that this could happen but if it does happen we can make a lot of money and we can make a lot of money off of this or a lot of people die that's okay because it'll have this outcome that's favorable to us so i think they're just planning for all kinds of different scenarios that they can then weaponize later so it's more like the governments and these companies aren't trying to stop something bad from happening it's like the same with ai it's like oh could it like shut down the power grid and all these things if it goes wrong sure so wouldn't we want to stop that no we're you know let's just go full steam ahead because you know china whatever reason they come up with and if it does happen we're going to have a lot of money off of this and we're going to have a lot of money off of this and we're going to have a lot of money off of this and we're going to have shut down the power grid you know you die hard style we'll have a we'll have a solution for that that maybe is like surveillance state or whatever that they want to do that then they can claim some additional power so it's not all bad in the end of the day so i just think they're not actively trying to prevent something bad from happening because they know that crisis will give them the means to claim more power yeah it is deep had a great tweet the other day i don't know if you believe the one you put out like last thursday about just like some of the rumblings that we hear doing this job from all different types of people and i'll read this and then kind of like let's kind of like let you run with it it's also kind of like hegelian dialectics which is like all the shit that these guys are into like an alex carp in this they call themselves hegelians but yeah i've never heard that term what does that mean actually it it deep will explain that he's he's cooking on this go ahead and read it thief that's perfect tweet um yeah so i put people adjacent to carp will agree with him however i find it interesting that in the conversations i've been a part of with julian and guests that have consulted with billionaires and elites like such on a slew of things that one remains true across the spectrum many of these individuals do in fact believe society is approaching the event the specificity is debated whether it's related civil unrest nuclear war etc but the general consensus is that something will happen so on one hand carp and or others alike look down on heideggerians but on the other friends like peter teal and jared kushner are hedging their bets by doing things such as moving to argentina or building bunkers in remote parts of new zealand that makes a lot of sense and what is what is a heideggerian so um someone who like believes in the philosophy of martin heidegger and i don't know if it's like his whole school of thought but he was like a big believer in the event like that society will eventually push itself that way like the rapture basically some sort of thing yeah and so alex carp in this clip was pretty much like shitting on that philosophy and saying that like that's a bunch of bullshit and that he um but at the same time i'm like well if that's a bunch of bullshit then why are you guys hedging your bet why are you still waiting for that possibility if you're so gung-ho on that being a load of bullshit fair point no that's i think that i'm i'm with you on that theory because i do think that they maybe would say well it's not ideal if that happens but if it does we'll be ready for it and we have plans to also make a ton of money off of that shit that's the thing too like making a ton of money off of something that happens like i'm just gonna throw out random numbers here you know world podcast population is just above 8 billion something like that event happens it goes down to 300 million what's the it's the money's worth something for sure but like what's life like at that point how much does it matter to have you know fucking 150 billion dollars at that point that's what i ask these people that you know you couldn't possibly spend this money in thousands of lifetimes like what's the point of continuing to try to accumulate and i do that and that that's a genuine question for some of these people i would throw bill ackman in that mix it's like why do you need to be online tweeting nonsense like if i was that wealthy i wouldn't say a goddamn word you know what i mean like why do you need to be out there making a fool of yourself to half the world you know like what's the point of this and it's like do you also need to be liked as well like is there some kind of complex maybe you you get all that money and it's not enough you have to now also be worshipped or something well you would you would started to say like 20 minutes ago and we got off and i think now is actually a good time to go towards it you started to talk about like you know who runs the world and you said it's not any one group or something like that it's like i'm maybe putting words in your mouth but like a consortium of different people and different i guess like motivations and stuff like that what do you mean by that and how would you describe how our world is run and i say that in air quotes yeah i would say that there are people out there i would you know who think like oh the world is run by either some kind of you know claus schwab one world government kind of thing or illuminati these kinds of things i i'm not really there on that quite yet because i don't see the direct ties and maybe that's just how my brain works is i don't think in that context i see more evidence of a ton of powerful people with their own self-interest and they kind of just all align so they kind of naturally move things in the same direction so like big food they have their incentive to sell as much food as possible and therefore they're going to use cheaper ingredients whatever they have to do to grow crops more efficiently even though it could cause some bad health effects on people at the same time big pharma is trying to sell as many drugs as possible and they're like oh well these people could be you know getting poisoned but we will develop a an antidote for that so we're not necessarily going to try to stop it and then the government is on top and they're being funded by both. these groups so they're not really incentivized to stop any of this from happening so that's how you get this kind of complex where people are getting poisoned and then going on these drugs forever so that's what i would say of like this is kind of how this the the world works that you have all of these different groups of people with their self you know that that are self-incentivized to perform this but then also you layer on top of a government that doesn't really want to do anything about it and that's how we get what seems to be a coordinated event that they're like hey they're poisoning the food supply so they can get on these big pharma i don't think me personally being in that world and i wasn't like that high up or anything but i don't see like the ceo of pfizer calling the ceo of like nabisco saying hey let's do this together right you know i more think like each of them are kind of doing their own thing but they just happen to align because that's where the money is i'm you is pretty much along your line of thought i think that evil is created out of incentive and then the ability the willful ignorance to ignoring the punishments of those incentives 100 and i and i think that like you go look at the bilderberg list from last year very diverse yeah very they checked every box bro orientation race country the whole bit the one thing they're not diverse on is they're all elite folks right they're all people that are you know not necessarily all billionaires so to speak but all people from high levels of government people that are billionaires people that are technocrats people that are very high level and like mainstream media like they're they're checking the boxes of places where they have some sort of hand near the levers of how things work and and i kept playing with that in my head and i'm like yeah it's not i don't think like alex carp and like farid zakaria are like on you know at the bar afterwards like yeah this is how we're gonna fuck all of them but i think that like they become aligned towards farid may and i'm just picking on two guys on the list farid being like this will be best for my life yeah and me being able to make money and alex carp being like this will be best for my life and me making money let's drone more fucking people in in gaza right and then they just do it and the end result then looks like they're in cahoots but right they are but they aren't i would say that's that i would more or less agree i think there are some exceptions to this rule i would point out some of the pro israel folks are actually just ideological like larry ellison i believe is incentivized purely based on ideology that he wants to do everything he can to quote him for israel and so that's why you see him make horrible business decisions of like why would you you know want to take on that much debt to acquire all these companies why to control the news or hiring barry weiss which is worth 200 million yeah right it's like she's worth 200 million how much is the julian dory podcast we're worth too billy right and you talk about all these things that don't make from a person who studied business it doesn't make any sense to do this like why would you want to run your newsroom to the ground right there's the the reporting out there that barry weiss has like blockaded herself on a floor that nobody can get to like her editorial staff has no access to her because they're so pissed and that she needs security and she's like i'm not going to do that i'm not going to do that i'm not security guard in her own building against a mutiny that's happening at cvs like how does that make any sense that you've just killed your newsroom why because you think it could potentially benefit a foreign project that that you are trying to to fulfill but that's ideological that's not based on any kind of like incentive structure because i do think most people are probably motivated by money and power he seems to be motivated by something different and i would not throw everybody i think like for example peter teal who a lot of people would call like a zionist um i think he's more like i think he's not so ideological in that sense or mark zuckerberg that's another person as well actually i think i agree on both of those yeah like i think they're just incentivized purely based on like how much can i grow this business that i have the ideological pool with israel with guys like larry ellison who are from america to be clear so strange and and like i try to wrap my head around it but like the best i can do is relate to my own family tree which you got to go back on but you know i'm italian irish no disrespect to ireland seems like a great place i'm half and half on each side roughly and like we never really followed the irish culture stuff we followed the italian culture stuff i lived in italy for a time fucking love it there love the people shout out italy great place like that place if that weren't there tomorrow i'd be like upset but at the same time if my government came to me tomorrow and said julian some shit went down last night i don't know what this maloney bitch is doing but like turns out where it wore with italy before they finish the sentence where they're even going to ask me like whose side you're on i have my american fatigues on a fucking ak and i'm on the nearest plane train or automobile to get the fuck over there and do my job for america right i'm not gonna like it but like i'm gonna do it and if you want proof of this go look at all the guys whose names ended in a vowel in world war ii who left places in new york where their parents still didn't even speak fucking english and went over there through sicily and the whole fucking boot for america like they fought for here because this is where they were so when i see people like larry ellison two things piss me off a i know what the answer to that question is gonna be for him and it ain't america even though he's from here was literally born here and b people like that also then pressure not just like non-jews to get on board with it but they pressure their own people in america to the point that they don't want to say anything about what's going on because they're silenced into it and they'll be canceled by their own people i've had these conversations yeah with jewish friends of mine i'm like it's a really fucking tough place to be but it's it's evil it's evil at every level to me it is very bizarre i agree with you because it wouldn't make sense in any other to your point any other context right if the chinese government started you know if they're doing crazy shit and i've spoken out against the chinese government as well even looking the way i do you are chinese i am well so if you were to go back to my family history um i was actually born in taiwan and i moved here this is new information by the way oh wow in taiwan exclusive and um which is a an outpost a colonial outpost i would say of the united states careful getting to that okay and uh our family got a green card when i was four years old okay so i would view myself as an american because that's all i grew up i mean my recollection is here even though i was born in a different country like this is the country that i grew up in this is where home is like when i go to taiwan like i'm a foreigner they look at me as a foreigner i don't really very well i can speak some chinese mandarin but it's not like i was watching um a television show with my grandma it's like a some asian quiz show like who wants to billion male uh who wants to be a millionaire whatever their version of it and i couldn't understand the questions i'm like i don't know what they're asking and so like when i go there i'm a foreigner and so like this is the country that i know and i wouldn't take any events or i wouldn't take any events or i don't know what they're asking and so i'm like hey the chinese are fucking slaughtering people like do you disavow like i would never say that that's like a racist thing to say because if their government is out there annihilating a minority group or whatever i think it's my duty to like say something about that versus like oh if we say that then we're actually uh we're actually spewing or we're feeding into anti-chinese american hate which is kind of the argument they use for the jewish community here is that like anti-chinese american hate which is kind of the argument they use for the jewish community here is that like anti-chinese american hate is kind of the argument they use for the jewish community here is that if i criticize israel it is endangering jewish americans it's blm all over again and like it really it's even worse than that to be honest because you could actually denounce blm and have a career in media whereas you really can't denounce you know you can't do it in the same way is what i'm saying and still be acceptable within mainstream culture i think that's changing a little bit but it's not exactly the same the fact that it's even still the case at all shows you how deep-rooted that is though because if you look at the public sentiment in america obviously not very popular you know when when you look at the actions of the israeli government especially people below the age of 50 they're not about this they're not about it and and we have to be honest with that and to say like oh all of you guys are just big old racist then and that's the term i like to use because anti-semitic is just racism it's just that's what it means i don't know why they have a special word but they do right but it's just racism and i'm like well aren't you especially talking to the right like the audience that i have on the right is that aren't you guys against sort of this like singling out and having a protected minority group because the facts are more important than feelings so it's like i don't care if i hurt your feelings you know ben he if it's the truth i'm able to say it not like that yeah that's wild so back to the whole thing um like i was saying is that like i would never react that same way because i i just like i'm a principled person so it's like hey a government is doing bad things especially for funding it as well it's not like this is some random government out there that we have nothing to do with we're actively supplying the bombs we're giving them billions of dollars and if i as a taxpayer don't want that i should be able to say something about it right if we i mean like 38 states you literally can't have a government contract if you oppose israel if you say i don't want to do business with israel then you can't get a government contract most i think all now suppliers for the pentagon have to also supply the united states or else they can't supply that to the u.s military which i think is also an insane way i'm sorry say that again did i miss it's like if you want to be a contractor for the pentagon the u.s military you also have to at least you don't have to you know necessarily do it but you have to be open to also giving that to israel you can't say i only want to supply our product to the united states government not to the israelis you also have to be okay with selling that same technology to the israelis are there any other countries that they say that about with these contracts no that's crazy and we also don't have a mutual defense treaty with israel we have that with a lot of different countries where like if we get attacked they have to step in militarily if we get attacked israel is not bound to to deploy their military on behalf of the united states who do we have mutual agreement there's a yeah joey if you want to pull that up pull it up there's i mean there obviously all the nato countries right uh but there's probably a few like south korea i believe some of the asian countries japan korea yeah you gotta watch me with asian countries i get them mixed up sometimes so it's not good all right what's the so nato they have major u.s venture as you said u.s mutual defense treaties inter-american treaty reciprocal assistance from 1947 is a hemispheric defense pact involving the u.s and numerous latin american and caribbean nations the ansys treaty a collective security agreement between the u.s australia and new zealand shout out kiwis shout out kiwis u.s philippines mutual defense treaty that's obviously with the philippines and then you're correct the republic of korea mutual defense treaty in 1953 the southeast asia treaty linking the u.s with places like thailand and others looks like we got one with japan too status of forces agreement is another key framework bilateral multilateral agreements such as with germany japan south korea and the uk that established a legal framework under which u.s military personnel are free to operate abroad i mean yeah but not israel like we don't have any security guarantee with israel so if we go and do all these military operations on behalf of them and we get bombed for whatever reason they actually could say well sorry guys we're not able to help you when did you start like when was the first time that you looked at this and said wait a minute what's this relationship going on here what do we have to do why why yeah why are people getting paid well i was relatively to just to shout out people who've been talking about this for decades like i was not one of the early people i didn't really even understand this as an issue going to school at uc davis we actually had a huge when i was there a huge scandal that i only found out about later there's a great documentary that was put out by al jazeera called the lobby a four-part series and on campus there was literally like an israeli spy that it infiltrated uc davis which is where i went to undergrad uc davis student groups and they were feeding information cables back to the israeli government did you know this guy no okay i was because i wasn't away to this issue i had no idea there was even a palestinian but like looking back on it you're not like i remember that dude from fucking statistics class it was a it was a lady who i know i did not know who this who this person was um but i'm like that's crazy so it was like yeah i'm married to her now no that would be the that would be the move you know look that's the that's the one regret in my life you know not marrying an israeli spy that's my you imagine the the platform i would have you'd have a huge platform yeah if she got 200 million bro you were getting three billy i know i had you know because i i'm truly a person who like i can kind of tell who's like sort of astroturf and who kind of made it by hand by you know just clawing their way up because that's what i did i literally had no connections to anybody i just started putting videos on there and to do that versus like you arrive on set and there's like 50 people there and i'm like he's not talking about here obviously yeah yeah no for the record no i'm not talking about the the julian dory podcast uh but where is i in the story oh yeah so the the awakening on israel for me was the murder of the palestinian american journalist uh shireen abu akleh i believe was her name shireen abu akleh when was this this was i think in 2022 so this is pre-october pre-october that was the first time i ever talked about this because i think it was very bizarre that israel basically just executed an american journalist and the coverage was like not condemnation it was actually like sort of like supporting israel it's like oh well they made a mistake that's what they said it was like oh it was an accident later on it turned out wasn't an accident they also like sent people to like disrupt her funeral proceedings and they were like oh well they made a mistake and they were like oh well they made a mistake and they were like oh well they made a mistake and they were like oh well they made a mistake and just the coverage of that in the media was just like very bizarre for me so then that's the first time i was like there's something weird going on here because under any other circumstance if an american journalist was sniped crazy there would be full condemnation of this government imagine if china or russia you know shot a journalist american journalist in the head that's right this one was just like ah you know it was an accident or whatever it was and so i think this and that was the first time i was like all right there's something weird here and then obviously a year later october 7th kind of just opened the door for everybody to talk about this from you know uh a critical angle because before that you really like if you ever talked about this issue you were kind of like sidelined yeah yeah what's so crazy is there's been so many like this i don't remember this one wow which is nuts so i i want to give it attention because he just brought it up but this was may 11th 2022 shireen abu akleh was a prominent palestinian american journalist who worked as a reporter for 25 years for al jazeera before she was killed by israeli forces while wearing a blue press vest and covering a raid on the janine refugee camp in the israeli occupied west bank abu akleh was one of the most prominent names across the middle east for decades of her reporting in the palestinian territories can't have that apparently and seen as a role model for many arab and palestinian women she is considered to be an icon of palestinian journalism upon her death israel denied responsibility as they always do and blamed her for the fact that she was killed by the same palestinian militants also as they always do however it gradually changed its narrative until admitting she was likely accidentally killed it's a very new jersey thing to do it was listen you know some shit went wrong and now she's gone what are you gonna do accidentally killed by israeli fire yeah but refused to undertake a criminal investigation it was an accident nothing to see the admission came after several independent investigations were conducted by international media outlets the united nations high commissioner of justice the center for human rights in the united states department of state as well interesting forensic architecture refuted israel's findings on september 20th and said abu akleh was deliberately targeted and denied medical and denied medical aid after she was shot in november 2022 the united states department of justice opened a separate investigation into the killing in a move that israel condemned and refused to cooperate with not like that her niece lena abu akleh has since been demanding that the israeli forces responsible for her death be held accountable that's why yeah and that's by by the way like they've killed hundreds of journalists now that was the first really big high profile one in recent times but since the war started they've basically killed not only journalists in gaza west bank lebanon and they just claim every time that is an accident you know if you remember i mean we're kind of like sort of pigeonholed into sort of the stuff that's happening lately but if you remember when we they first started doing the military operation against gaza there was like a week and a half in fighting whether or not israel bombed a hospital i believe it was al-shifa hospital in gaza yes and it was a bad it's like no it was an islamic jihad rocket misfire this and that and then here we are you know three years later and every hospital has been bombed by israel at this point so it's like what i'm trying to say is like we were kind of right in the very beginning because they were trying to gaslight us until they couldn't gaslight us anymore and this is kind of what happens in this investigation they just said it was an accident until they can't say it's an accident anymore but then even after we discover what the truth is they just like hey move on or else that's kind of their answer right now it's like hey move on or else yeah it's it's very threatening in nature i would say and that's my concern with you know our relationship with them is that it's not a fair diplomatic relationship it's it's like very sort of like mob yes mobster kind of vibes i i don't i don't think that can be not denied at this point because even if you just follow like the old detective's manual of just follow the money yeah you see where it's going within within our politics and you're not going to be able to you see what those people who are then paid then vote on as it pertains to funding of israel as it pertains to defending israel as it pertains to using all their taglines every time they make a media appearance just like they use the taglines for whatever other industries pay them yeah you know it's like you can tell when the email went out here's what we're saying today and there's a lot of emails to go out for that apparently and you were you know i don't know what your entire story is and when you sort of started talking about this but i have not i've seen you not mince your words on this issue and i i even retweeted you one time like hey this guy is like the new joe rogan because you're actually out there compare it comparing your podcast to to joe's is like it used to be you know i think following the same sort of thing it's like hey you want to hear from everybody getting different opinions and now his seems to be just state propaganda it's like all the big guys mark andreason peter teal jd vance state talking points versus like actually opening the doors for people who have new information new information new information new information new information new information new information documentary folks journalists entertainers uh because you're actually seeking out information and i know i'm on your pod so i'm like gassing you up a little bit but i i appreciate it a lot but i think that's like the the really important thing that you guys do and i hope you keep doing it you know so that and and i've i've said this before and it's just this should be said about anyone like joe rogan's a man you know he's not a god and he's not above criticism by any stretch and i think that over the past couple years especially from a programming perspective some of the things you say there i think there's some things that i would hope he would want to do over on right and be like if i were going to do that first of all i'd do it way different or maybe i wouldn't do it at all you know maybe we don't have on fucking mark andreason three times in 12 months and just have him tell me why silicon valley's doing all this great shit you know but at the same time i do i think it's really important and that's very kind words you to say that and all i think it's really important to stay humble in the moment and i think it's really important to stay humble in the moment and i think it's really important to stay humble in the moment and the chair i'm in because i have not faced anywhere near the type of waves that he has had to face i would argue that with covid not only did he pass some tests he was right on the front lines with things that i was definitely clueless on and you know put a lot on the line with that and i think he should be given some grace for getting other things wrong especially since and we talk about this all the time back here you know he was the first guy at everything which means he's going to be the first guy to get shit really right and he's also going to be the first guy to get shit really wrong and this is important because that means that i have i don't have excuses for things moving forward because i've gotten to see the evidence of all the things he does right and have the example of that and i also have the evidence of the things he's done wrong to be able to clock that in my head and be like well when i'm faced with that what are we over time but for me there's two main things number one you do not want to have audience capture you want to be able to entertain all ideas including the ones that are very unpopular which i've continued to do and that's that's an interesting little dance you play right there but number two i always want to do the things that interest me and talk with people that interest me and where that falls it falls and you know what it's not always going to fall in the algorithm like that's just not how life works so i really appreciate you i saw that retweet as well i appreciate you doing that and i'm going to be able to do that and i'm going to be able to do that and you know i appreciate you respecting what what we're trying to build here i got some great people here with me and we're going to keep it that way so and it's really hard just to follow up on that it's really hard to maintain that principle as you grow because that's what i think you know if you're talking about like who's a fed who's not a fed pointing fingers at each other i don't think for most people they don't start as feds they start doing their thing and they're earnest about it but then as you get bigger there are attempts to co-opt you and that's what's to independent media overall is that they're trying to take over that space because they know there's a limited window of mainstream media left right we talked about that earlier the boomers are aging out and so they need that new audience so what do you do you go capture where the audience is you don't necessarily have to put them in the chair on msnbc or wherever you let them do their own thing but you on certain issues you come and step in and say this is how you're going to talk about this issue okay and we give you a lot of money to do that so i think that's kind of what's happening to a lot of independent media folks and it takes a certain amount of like principle to not compromise and you know basically exchange some of your values for a pretty big payday you know i think that's difficult to do because i think that's what happened to that's what happens you know even like the guys that you know maybe they're fed maybe they're not like joe rogan these guys or nick shirley right i think he does some good investigative work but now has been captured by the administration to only do investigations quote unquote that benefit the regime and that's coordinated like the whole minnesota ice thing i think was coordinated with the trump administration because they knew they're going to do that they need to expose somalis or whatever because there's also a geopolitical angle to that i think you've talked about this where there's like a somaliland versus somalia you want to denigrate the somalis because you want this new nation to to rise up that's has some treaty with israel once again and it all kind of ties together but but do i think nick shirley was a fed from the beginning i don't think so but i think he you can be captured in that sense yeah and that's kind of where the money is and that's what he decided is the best path for him or he could have stayed like the other counter to you know the the other opposite person i would say is like a tyler olivera you know who does similar style like i've sat in that chair oh amazing yeah i love that i mean that's it's an honor to sit in this chair then i would say but tyler does not receive the same level of quality of life as he did when he was a kid he was a kid who was a kid who was a kid who was a with the government because he does some investigations that are not endorsed by the state yeah and so he doesn't get that accolade right of going to the white house and shaking hands with what was it uh howard lutnick you know that was insane right it's a bad look you're talking about nick yeah yeah i'm talking about nick there so i think everybody kind of chooses their own path but i think that's that's kind of how i because i don't think like people are just feds or not feds i think there's like an evolution there's also a spectrum to this kind of thing yeah and i and i think number one it's a real thing number two i also think that there's something that often gets ignored that i've talked with different people on the show about which is even before you talk about people that might be on the payroll and shit like that you talk about the useful idiot scale every single person online you and me included are on that scale oh the job is to try to stay as low on that scale as possible and recognize when it's happening to you and be like okay let's let's pull back off that and there are some people who are on that scale and they're not on that scale and they're not on that scale and there are some people that get so lost in the work and in the incentives of the work that they don't recognize that and like nick i i talked about this a few weeks ago with with jim erdman and like i do have when people come on the show as well there's also like a level of respect there where i i don't like to come out and cause problems or anything like that i think nick's a really nice kid i thought that when i met him he was this was like the first podcast studio he was ever in he had 50 000 followers or something at the time you know 85 something like that like but you could tell he was gonna go because he he is legitimately a hard worker and all yeah but he's a kid and really really green and he had political beliefs and when you have hardcore political beliefs and you call yourself a journalist and you're young and you're green you can get taken advantage of there and i believe that that has happened does that mean that every investigation he does is is wrong no but does that mean that that also mean that perhaps things he does are very astroturfed or handed to him from places that he doesn't think about enough like where that's coming from yeah and he did text me after that clip clip came out on on twitter and all that and like he he's a nice kid he's welcome to come on the podcast at some point i haven't invited him to be clear in in his defense or anything but you know i would definitely have some questions about you know hey you were here in june 2024 yeah how were you getting your stories then seemed more innocent at the time how are you getting them now that would those are fair questions to ask because to your point then tyler goes and does investigations in lakewood and they're like no no not like that yeah yeah exactly it's like isn't that the same sort of investigations right it's exposing fraud i thought we're all about exposing fraud but not this fraud yes right and that's the same in california but by the way this is unspoken of in terms of the homeless crisis and i tweeted about it and i tweeted this because did you see that trump the other day said oh we're you're going to get one percent of all the fraud money that you discover oh yeah okay and i'm like yo i found 300 million dollars of state funds that's going to these groups in california that's supposedly housing people but if you go off that list i would say probably 75 are of one group of people that were really not supposed to challenge and it's like how are you going to check this and that's why i was opposed to spencer pratt for la mayor because i knew the connections and i got a lot of shit for this too because yeah what was going i don't i really didn't know much about that race i know people were really obviously into the la mayor race but what was going on there so i had a line sort of like me and spencer had sort of had a few meetings together because i was with him on the la fire issue like if you remember there's a huge fire in the palisades as well as in eton um in um pasadena two major fires in california i think there's This was like the beginning of 2025, right? And Karen Bass, the mayor of LA, like oh this is just an act of god the winds blew up there's nothing we can do about it blah blah blah and later on i was talking because i literally was talking to residents of um the palisades and they're like yo this was not just a fluke this is a botched job by the la fire department there was a small brush fire a week earlier that was set off by like fireworks or something like that they didn't properly put it out they were negligent about it and then ignited with the right condition or reignited and that's the the angle i was chasing down and i was probably one of the first to break that story speaking of like i think there's this is a sort of an aside of like people who do what i do is like part of it is like amplification of news stories which is like kind of an influencer job it's like i i like this story i'm gonna tell more people about it versus like firsthand i'm digging stuff up that's new and that's this is one of the stories i was literally talking to people on the ground saying guys this is not what it seems and they're covering this up it ended up being right that gavin newsom because of some california regulations for vegetation or whatever the firefighters couldn't go in there because they had to protect this the shrubs or whatever and it was you know kind of one of those insane california things because it ended up like igniting everything but anyways spencer and i so we talked about potentially doing an investigation together on homelessness and i was talking to his team about that but then shortly reach out to you um i can't i'm trying to remember exactly who reached out to who first but i think when i did the fire story he reached out to me saying hey add me on this as like a collaborator because he was also digging into the same thing so i added him that's i think that's the first time we talked and then i was in talks with this other producer about maybe doing a homeless documentary so then i reached out to his team asking if he would be interested in this and they're like yeah so we had a couple meetings but then shortly thereafter he ran for la mayor and that project kind of just died and so i but i was like more you know i i was like i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i want to see change in la but then spencer came out and started saying some like i would say like kind of maga republican tp usa not not sorry not not like original maga but like tp usa maga talking points and i'm like this doesn't seem right and then i saw him you know hoist an israeli flag and also post stuff about you know the regime change in iran how that's necessary and i'm like okay this guy is not what he seems and i started posting about that and a lot of people got pissed out and i'm like oh my god this guy is a mayor candidate for la posting about regime change in iran that that's kind of when i see shit like yeah i'm like like joe kent would say data point yeah exactly so that's what i was exactly observing and i just wanted to do my job i'm like hey this guy even though i was with him on this issue i don't think he can actually do what he says he's gonna do did you like reach out directly at all yeah and ask him about that what do you say i got ghosted nothing nothing because i'm like hey this issue is obviously like because he was out there saying one of the top priorities was protecting the jews and i'm like and but he's also like aligned to that side i'm like hey this is an issue that should be addressed like you should you should state your position clearly on this and that's what i was trying to get him to do and then he just kind of goes to me i had a long call like i got the super angry call from this guy that was like with his campaign that was like why would you need to take this shit down like you're hurting the cause i'm like it's not my cause like i'm not on the campaign i'm it's not my job to not put out a story that could potentially harm him because he's like don't you care about the homeless don't you care about this and that i'm like yes i do but i see something that could potentially compromise what he would do when if he's in office because then i exactly because then i look at all the homeless organizations and then and i'm like hey these are all you know kind of zionist jewish non-profits like do you think he's going to go in and defund these organizations or ask at least for accountability to say hey if we're going to give you 300 million dollars how many people are you going to house are you going to come back to us because there's zero accountability in how la worked before they basically handed out money and there was no accountability mechanism on the back end to say well with that money what did you do how many people did you house there was nothing it was just a bunch of people who were like oh my god there's a bunch of people who were like oh my god it was just constant every year was a billion dollars billion dollars another billion dollars without saying why are we getting more people off the street because if you look at the numbers like i think california spent about 25 million billion dollars on homelessness in the past five or six years and homelessness has gone up and so there's up up like way up too way up and so there's got to be a problem right it's like if you do the math you could buy everybody houses house them and so this is a deep god at california's annual spending on homelessness currently ranges between 1.5 billion and 2.5 billion per year from state level funds this represents a sharp drop from its peak in 22 23 where it reached 6.9 but they spent a total of 24 billion between 2019 and 2024 with some estimates climbing to 29.5 across across roughly 30 different state programs the averages that average is out roughly to 4.8 billion per year over that five year span and then do we have what the numbers were in it going up like for how much did california homelessness go up from 2019 to 2024 that'll be interesting yeah see what the return on investment oh i was this you know i get a percentage on it so in january 2024 at least 187 000 people were experiencing homelessness in california which probably means double that and that translates to a rate of 48 people for per 10 000 residents and the current rate of 48 people for per 10 000 residents and the current rate of 48 people for per 10 000 change in the methodology and how they're counting the homelessness because that's when the election was coming up as well so the mayor is incentivized to like and i've talked to people who have numbers around on the balance sheet exactly liabilities because i talked to social workers and they're like they're missing a ton of these people in the way they're doing the count now maybe deliberately maybe not i'm not going to say the claim that they're doing it on purpose but the methodology changed for whatever reason i also don't even know and this isn't in defense of anyone just in general i don't even know how you can fully logically track that because yes you can see the same person sleeping on the same bench every night for a week and be like okay got one yeah but then there's other people are you walking up to everyone like what's your address like like i've seen people that are homeless and i'm like wow you really you know what i mean and then others i'm like all right got it you know you got the please insert money in the drawer sign got it but like it's such a hard thing to track and they have not been incentivized despite all the money put into it to fix it it's bizarre and back to the nick shirley i'm like if you're looking at fraud this is probably one of the biggest cases of fraud in the entire country but is there a reason why you wouldn't look into because i would think from a purely a market-based perspective this is the biggest story to do because this is the one that impacts the most it's the biggest numbers you'll be huge headline if you do this story yes but why aren't you looking at these organizations why do you go after the somali ones only that pales in comparison in terms of the the scale of the fraud i'm not saying no fraud existed in minnesota i think there was a lot of fraud there that was documented and the feds were going after them too right so that's a story that i don't think is a fake story but then you have to ask like to your point earlier what um sort of um how do you choose your stories is it from pure interest what you're curious about or is somebody saying hey do this story yeah i i think it could be but i don't know to be clear i can speculate on it with him because i i don't i when nick texted me that was the first time i'd exchanged a text with him i think since like summer 2024 after he was on but you know i don't know exactly where's what i will tell you a story that's kind of interesting to me though all right and i haven't asked tyler about this but tyler was here i think we recorded sunday night november 16th 2025 i want to say and i put out that episode a few weeks later in december but he left and he was flying either that night or the next morning to minnesota to do a story on this on the somali fraud and there's some things i'm gonna not say that he and i were talking about because i'm gonna assume that was off record but he was talking about that story and then did say he had spoken with nick about this as well and it was perfectly just like yeah no i i talked about this because i'm going out there to do that and i didn't know anything obviously about nick then going to do the story but tyler does that story it comes out maybe two three weeks later on youtube maybe early december something like that and then three four weeks after that nick hits it and it goes right that was interesting to me because tyler's huge tyler's mega huge yeah he's been around forever dude like it's crazy he's only 26 years old but he's literally been on youtube since he was like 16 like making serious videos so i don't know i see stuff like that and it's it's just interesting back from 30 000 feet or in your little armchair here is like a podcaster and you're like huh i wonder how that does go down and why that one goes but this one doesn't because tyler's documentary was you know probably equally as good yeah it was a little bit of a different angle wasn't like daycare so to speak but kind of got the message across right and is that and i'm just purely speculating because i have no idea either yeah i think there's time for that um i think they probably judge based on you know who are who you want to blow up is like is this a guy that we can leverage later could this be an asset to us and they're like tyler seems a little bit rogue like he seems to want to do everything and is this a guy we want to elevate or is nick going to be the better guy because he will sort of do the stories that we want him to do later there's probably some calculation of that and i think that's why for me like i'm probably like a mid-size audience and because i don't coordinate with anybody i'm not friends with anybody in the industry i just purely do stories when it comes across um sort of my quote-unquote desk um that i'm interested in i don't really have people telling me hey you have to do this story or that story um and i also don't placate to people saying oh this is going to get you a lot of you so you should do this so i will essentially be like a rogue agent and that's not a great person to have in your wheelhouse you want to have a a person that's like you can easily manipulate and control yeah and so yeah that might be it i don't know i'm pure speculation i think i think nick i i don't want to overstate this i think he could clear up that speculation very easily i think he could do one thing what are you what is that to an investigation on like some of the fraud in the trump administration right i i literally think if he did that there there's always still going to be people who make claims well you've done all this you don't that's what it is that's the nature of the internet you have to accept that but like there'll be people like all right you know he's got his beliefs that's fine that's america you can have your beliefs but like now he's investigated the other side of it it's not just like no one's arguing that gavin newsom's running a fucking rogue state out there i got no arguments with nick about that no one's arguing like the stop nick shirley law is crazy like stuff like that is stupid and crazy but like just you know kind of play it both ways and there's like a weird you know there's this weird thing like a buddy of mine got a text from what the fuck is the guy's name the uh project veritas guy oh james james o'keefe got a text from him asking him to to come to the independent journalist gala at mar-a-lago and to be clear this person he texted is not a conservative which which actually that is a good sign yeah that that's that's a point in in james keith's argument i guess but he literally texted him back like interesting independent journalists at mar-a-lago he's like unfortunately i'm not going to be around but like yeah how do you not see the irony with that you know how do you not like to me i'd be looking at the mirror going i'm a journalist hosting an event celebrating journalists in the at the fucking you know winter white house of the sitting politician pres that seems a little off right to me to me it does but that is some journalism is like access journalism because it probably opens a lot of doors if you go there you meet people if you want to do that kind of thing that's a lot of cnn and why you know speaking of stories that i've been chasing down recently involving sam altman that's why there have been so few stories critical of sam altman because they want that access to him and they would just ignore all the rest of the crazy stuff that he's allegedly involved in in order to get that access well i don't want access to sam you have the floor sir so this guy allegedly you know we all know sam altman first but for the people who don't he's the ceo founder of open ai which is not an open company yeah it's a closed ai that's right they should really change the name i think right just to be honest rebrand closed ai but i've been chasing out a couple of stories one involving his sister's allegations against him that he allegedly did a lot of uh i don't want to get this taken down yeah exactly essay when she was named annie annie altman okay um between the ages of i think she was three to about 12 or 13 years old so he was the older brother and he's the older brother okay the story has gotten zero attention in the mainstream media other than when she filed the lawsuit against him it was reported but within that headline it would say something to the effect of you know sam's sister lawsuit against uh sam altman family thinks that she has mental health issues so you know they kind of pair the two together to say like hey this allegation does exist but she's a crazy person despite how that looks and i agree with you do you think there's anything to that i mean i've spoken to his sister a number of times and to me based on my no i'm not a psychological expert i don't have any credentials in this field but i when i speak to somebody who i think is very credible she's very sound mind i think she i would classify her as a little bit eccentric maybe some ptsd there but if what she's saying is true it would make sense for her to have ptsd but she's very very sharp like she's not like insane like what she's saying all the all the stuff that she's doing and that she's handling to me seems like a person who has it together that's my judgment of it i have an interview with her that's sort of short um but because i was asking because her lawsuit was actually dropped by the federal judge because um allegedly i think they were trying to figure out whatever way that i think this this this lawsuit was going to be dismissed one way or another because open ai is trying to ipo you cannot have this kind of open-ended that's right um sort of litigation against him of this magnitude if that company were trying to go public so what happened was they claimed that she did not submit or did not agree to do a medical examination and that's what the press printed they said hey she refused to do a medical examination so then i asked her i'm like why did you do that why didn't you just do the medical examination and she said well i am recovering from an orthopedic surgery i can't fly based on doctor's orders so i offered to have them fly out whoever they wanted to where i live and i'll pay for it or get somebody local whoever you want and they said no so it's so she offered him what i believe was a reasonable alternative to that request because they wanted her to fly somewhere like st louis or boston whatever for their the guy that they picked out and said well no i can't actually do that can you fly and i think this is my judgment of it i don't know if it's gonna you know i i have no proof of this but i think if she had submitted to this medical examination they'd probably find another way to dismiss the case based on some kind of loophole or you know one of these things that yeah ticky tacky kind of oh you know she didn't properly file the paperwork or whatever they were going to get this lawsuit dismissed one way or another but that doesn't and so that that kind of sucks because it doesn't mean what she's saying is not true it doesn't even go to a jury trial right you don't even get the justice system to be able to evaluate whether her claims are true or not because they just wipe it off the record and to this day many people still say well she's just a crazy person mental health issues doesn't know what she's talking about and i'm just inclined to believe her and i'm one of the reasons why i'm also inclined to believe her because a lot of people say oh she's just after the money right sam's a billionaire she wants this money but when you look into the background she actually made the allegations well before he open ai chat gpt launched it was a number of years ago back when he was at y combinator back when he was at y combinator yeah nobody she started posting like all these are open uh public blogs that she's written like anybody can go look it up the history of when she started talking about this and it was a number of years before sam was even a household name like that who has the power that he has because now it's like oh he's one of the most powerful people in ai ties to the president so there's this narrative that you can create that oh she's just after him because he's super powerful and wealthy and she wants a part of the cut but if you start doing that years and years beforehand i think that lends to more credibility of no she's actually just trying to seek justice yeah i had talked with someone a couple years ago who i'm going to call him an expert in the essay understanding if that's what you will and do it that way you will but they had spoken with her extensively and when i say they were they were pounding the table that she was telling the truth i mean they were literally pounding the table and at first and i've never been a fan of sam altman but at first i was kind of like i don't know you know it seemed it some of this seems a little awesome it could seem like a money grab and maybe it is but the more i watched him talk and the more i would see across all different contexts the way he treated people and approached people and did it you know kind of like a sheep like a wolf in sheep's clothing yeah the more i saw those sociopathic tendencies and the more i like i ended up calling up this person about a year later after i had the conversation with him where i'm like i don't know and i i called him i said hey i might be changing my opinion on this i'm not saying 100 but like you might be right about this you know and the fact that it is completely whitewashed in the media if i'm if i'm sam altman and i'm innocent of this i'm not saying i want it everywhere in the media but i would want to make sure it does not have the optics of looking like really rich billionaire brother is going to his buddies in the media and in politics to make sure this case don't go anywhere and doesn't get any attention i would want to be very public with the whole this is total bullshit and i got nothing to hide and in my opinion he he hasn't done that and that that's interesting to me as well i don't think he's publicly spoken about this i can't find an interview on the record where he has been asked this question he's denied it in written he's denied it in written statement saying this is a very hurtful allegation our whole family is praying for annie blah blah blah but he's never publicly addressed it i don't think he's had to because i think the media is terrified to ask him this or they can't because they would lose access instant instantly and i that that is now proven i i have text messages that i've put out that proves that he's basically threatening any media publication if they write about this no more interviews with sam that's on i accept your terms yeah those are acceptable terms to me um yeah well so i hope you you dig into it more but i think the only time i've seen him kind of press was on a separate issue of the death of the open ai whistleblower named suture by tucker carlson we all saw that that how bad that is one of the most brutal six and a half minute clips yeah right i like and it's worth every every minute of that is proper journalism can we put that on like if we don't make it full screen don't copyright as tucker carlson i'm actually giving serious love on this this is like i watch this from time to time for like the love of the game yeah because his the body language on sam is so bad but the no i'm actually just i the family's concerned like the whole just like i i'm i'm i'm only well they wanted me to ask like the whole like just kind of meek hey i'm just asking questions here brother is so perfect this is seven minutes we're gonna watch at least some of this right now people and please don't copyright me i am giving love tucker carlson but let's run it dave this is incredible so you've had you had complaints from one programmer who said you guys are basically stealing the show you're not stealing the show you're not stealing the show you're not stealing people's stuff and not paying them and then he wound up murdered what was that just for context i know you'd said this this is about the whistleblower who allegedly i'm putting in air quotes off himself yes and tucker carlson as you can tell in the question is going right into that saying you know this guy had been a whistleblower and it seems like maybe he was murdered what do you say to that oh before you can i sure another important distinction here is that the other people are saying that this technology is so powerful that it could kill us all which is actually a great marketing tool for the ai companies trying to get a high valuation because he's basically confirming how great their product is before their ipo so that actually is very helpful i mean how many whistleblowers i mean i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know how many whistleblowers i mean you know how whistleblowers are treated in in the media they're shunned how did this guy or how did all these people get prime time slots on cnn and all the rest of the news networks within a couple of days they're on the biggest news networks in the world whereas this guy's basically saying hey open ai what they're doing right now is illegal you can't monetize this that's a different form of whistleblowing that's interesting deep let's just run it was only 10 seconds let's just run it from the top because i interrupted people on that but that's very interesting james so you've had you had complaints from one programmer who said you guys were basically stealing people's stuff and not paying them and then he wound up murdered what was that also a great tragedy uh he committed suicide do you think he committed suicide i really do have you this was like a friend of mine this is like a guy that i'm not a close oh can you pause this one that worked at open ai for he said it was a friend of his so i actually have an email which is i put on twitter but i was talking to the parents and they're like they're like this is a lie like he was not friends with suchir and literally in the hr email it says sam did not personally know suchir wow okay but god wow very long time i spent i mean i was really shaken by this tragedy i spent a lot of time trying to you know read everything i could as i'm sure you and others did too about what happened um it looks like a suicide to me why does it look like a suicide it was a gun he had purchased it was the shaking this is like gruesome to talk about but i read the whole like that's right medical record does it not look like one to you no he was definitely murdered i think um there were signs of a struggle of course the surveillance camera the wires had been cut he had just ordered take out food come back from a vacation with his friends on catalina island no indication at all that he was suicidal no no and no behavior he had just spoken to a family member on the phone and then he's found dead with blood in multiple rooms so that's impossible it seems really obvious he was murdered have you talked to the authorities about it i've not talked to the authorities about it um and his mother claims he was murdered on your orders do you believe that i i'm well i'm i'm asking i mean you you just said it so do you do you believe that i think that it is um worth looking into and i don't yeah i mean if a guy comes out and accuses your company of committing crimes i have no idea if that's true or not of course oh he knows um and then is found killed and there are signs of a struggle i don't think it's worth dismissing it i don't think we should say well he killed himself when there's no evidence that the guy was depressed at all um i think and if he was your friend i would think you would want to speak to his mom i did offer she didn't want to so do you feel that you know when people look at that and they're like you know it's possible that happened do you feel that that reflects the worries they have about what's happening here like people are afraid that this is like i've done too many interviews where i've been accused of like i'm not accusing you at all i'm just saying his his mother says that i don't think a fair read of the evidence suggests suicide at all i don't see that at all and i also don't understand why the authorities when there's signs of a struggle and blood in two rooms on a suicide like how does that actually happen i don't understand how the authorities could just kind of dismiss that as a suicide i think it's weird you understand how this sounds like an accusation of course i mean i certainly let me just be clear once again not accusing you of any wrongdoing but i i think it's worth finding out what happened and i don't understand why the city of san francisco has refused to investigate it beyond just calling it a suicide i mean i think they looked into it a couple of times more than once as i understand it i saw that and i will totally say when i first heard about this it sounded very suspicious yes um and i know you have been involved in was mother asked out to the case and i you know i don't know anything about it it's not my world she just reached out cold she reached out cool wow and uh and i spoke to her at great length and it and it scared the crap out of me the kid was clearly killed by somebody that was my conclusion objectively with no skin in the game and you after reading the latest report yes like look and i immediately called a member of congress from california wrote connor and said this is crazy you gotta look into this and nothing ever happened and i'm like what is that again i think this is i feel i'm the strange and sad debating this and having to i'm not myself totally crazy and you are a little bit accusing me but um the this was like a wonderful person and a family that is clearly struggling yes and i think you can totally take the point that you're just trying to get to the truth of what happened and i respect that um but i think his memory and his family deserve to be treated like this and i think that's what's related with a level of respect respect and grief that i don't quite feel here i'm asking at the behest of his family um so i'm definitely showing them respect um and i'm not accusing you of any involvement in this at all what i am saying is that the evidence does not suggest suicide and for the authorities in your city to elide past that and ignore the evidence that any reasonable person would say adds up to a murder i think it's very weird and it shakes the faith that one has in our system's ability to respond to the facts So what I was going to say is after the first set of information that came out, I was really like, man, this doesn't look like a suicide. I'm confused. Okay, okay, so I'm not reaching, I'm not being crazy here. But then after the second thing came out, and the more detail, I was like, okay. What changed your mind? The second report on the way the bullet entered him and the sort of person who had followed the sort of likely path of things through the room. I assume you looked at this too. Yes, I did. And what about that didn't change your mind? This is crazy. It just didn't make any sense to me. Why would the security camera wires be cut? And how did he wind up bleeding in two rooms after shooting himself? And why was there a wig in the room that wasn't his? And has there ever been a suicide where there's no indication or all of the person was dead? A suicidal who just ordered takeout food? I mean, who orders DoorDash and then shoots himself? I mean, maybe. I've covered a lot of crimes. I've never heard of anything like that. So no, I was even more confused. This is where it gets into, I think, a little bit painful, just not the level of respect I'd hope to show to someone with this kind of mental health. I get it. I totally get it. People do commit suicide without notes a lot. Like, that happens. For sure. People definitely order food they like before they commit suicide. And don't eat it? This is an incredible tragedy. The chow mein. That's his family's view. And they think it was a murder. And that's why I'm asking the question. If I were his family, I am sure I would want answers. And I'm sure I would not be satisfied with really any. I mean, there's nothing that would comfort me in that, you know? Right. Like, so I get it. I also care a lot about respect to him. Right. Yeah. You said that. Before you say the bullet thing real fast, when you're in there like that, like that feeling when you are cooking and everything you do is like, oh, I got this, it happens. It's like a rare thing during hard moments like that. But when it happens, it is one of the, I'll speak for sitting in this chair, it is one of the greatest fucking feelings ever. And there is not one note that he struck wrong in that seven minutes. I'm talking about Tucker, of course. I'm agreeing. I think Tucker is like. The best in the game at doing this kind of thing, because he still gets, because I've never had that experience because I don't interview people really. And so I don't ever, that I just don't have the opportunity. So it's cool that you get to be in the chair and have that moment where you're like, hey, this is an important issue. I'd love to get deeper with you on if that's cool. You know, that was biblical though. Yeah. Like just 38 million views just on that version of it. I'm sure there's other clips that will exist as well. That'll do. But you were going to talk about the bullet and another thing. The bullet, because, right. Because first of all, there was no second thing. I don't know what he's referring to when he saw the first thing and the second thing. There was no second thing. There was just the thing. And the bullet, and I've looked at the police body cam footage as well. Even the officers who were there on site was like, this is kind of bizarre because the angle, I don't know if you've looked into it. He basically shot himself like this with the bullet entering straight in from the front. So he's had, he has to cock. His wrist, which is not impossible. I would imagine, but it's difficult. That's not from going out. I want to go out like people do this. People do this, right? This is not very common. Yeah. Okay. So that's one thing that he's that, that people looked at because there was the San Francisco police based on my knowledge, essentially called this a suicide within the first few minutes. Okay. This is what I. I heard from the mom. So she was there and they immediately said, this is a suicide. Even though the officers who were there were kind of questioning it. You can hear in their, in their conversation or like, did people really do that? Suicide? Like he, they're like, I've never seen anybody shoot themselves in that way. Cause at first they're like, this looks like an accident. Maybe they're saying they're saying this on, on, on, on the police body cam footage, which is bizarre. And also then the mom had multiple independent forensics and ballistics analysis and they found. Potentially multiple bullets and people, this wouldn't be the first time. Okay. People tell me that you can shoot yourself twice. Like it happened to Gary Webb, the famous CIA, um, or he was investigating the CIA drug, uh, cartel thing. He apparently also shot himself twice. I don't know how people do that. Yeah. What did the Clinton lady do? She hung herself while he hung himself while electrocuting himself and shooting himself in the chest. The lawyer guy. Yeah. With a shotgun while his hands were tied behind his back. He, that was impressive. Yes. That was very impressive. These people accomplished an impressive feat. So what I'm saying is under any fair look at the, the evidence, there seems to be more to the story here. And this is where I, you know, I go into conspiracy theory territory where like, I don't believe what the conclusion is because none of the evidence points to it. And the fact that it was so quickly determined seems like there was a coverup, but that's not, hold on a second before you get to coverup, it's not a conspiracy theory to evaluate evidence based on literally the physical, social, and personal anomalies that exist and say that appears different. And there are law enforcement professionals who agree at least a subset of them that it appears different. It's not a conspiracy to then question that, that is, that is using your independent thought to do it. So don't talk yourself down on that because that's not, you want to get into conspiracy of like, okay, did he order it or something like that? Okay. I guess we got to call it that for now. But. It doesn't seem like it's out of the realm of possibility based on looking at his reaction and shit. I'd say. No. And not based on, I, I, I can't share a whole lot of this because these are off the record conversations that had people with people in his inner circle. But essentially I wouldn't put it past him to do something like that. And even based on the stuff that is public, right? There's an entire expose on Sam Altman and how he's a sociopath and a psychopath with no true human feelings. Like he doesn't feel things the same way. A regular person would, if they, let's say, decide to go kill somebody or lie to people to their face and backstab them. I'm talking about the Ronan Farrow piece in New Yorker if you can, it would be very interesting because he is sort of a, I think he's sort of a gatekeeper in terms of these kinds of exposés because he decides what goes in and what doesn't go in because I've heard a lot of people frustrated. Yeah. I've heard a lot of people frustrated by him and, and what he will report and what he won't report. And so it'd be interesting to hear his take on what the process is, the editorialization, the behind the scenes that we don't see in the newspaper, in the traditional news media of what gets printed versus what gets cut. That would be really interesting to ask him about. We really should. We talked about that before. We should do that. I think he's in New York too. So we hopefully we can make that happen. Sometimes I think there is straight up gatekeeping and there is straight up, you know, limited hangoutiness that occurs with different stories. I think that's a real thing to be very clear. The other side where I see, and I'm not familiar with the claims on this story, so I'm just speaking generally right now. The other side where I see where people are coming from on including this detail, but not that one is when they're looking at like, I'm going to use round numbers. Let's say they're working on one story and there are 10 main sub stories within it. And they rank out the stories based on level of evidence. The one, two and three are like, yo, if I took this into court, the jury's not even letting the pizza get there for deliberations. They're guilty. Right? Then the four to five to six is like, pretty good. Got a lot here. Might be able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Then they get to the seven, eight, nine, 10 and they're like, some of this might be true, but there's a lot more questions being asked and if I were my worst enemy who wanted to attack my peace and get people to not pay attention to it and say, no, this is all bullshit. Would I be giving some fresh meat for them to be able to do that? So people ignore the one to six. And so I think when that is the actual intention and to be clear, sometimes it's not, sometimes it is literally gatekeeping with stuff. So be curious to see what he says when that is the intention. I think I fully understand that. And I can speak to that from my own job in the past with like, when I started to ask questions on stuff. I'm like, I don't know on that one, this one I know on, let's go with that, right? Like there is a calculation that can be healthy there. It's just, it's a very fine, it's a fine line to walk for sure. Well, what do you think about this? Because this entire thread is omitted from the entire New York piece. Which one? The whistleblower death not mentioned. It's not mentioned at all. That's interesting to me because that, so Ronan didn't put that in the piece at all. He didn't even mention that it happened. I'm trying to think I, maybe you can pull this up, Joe, to see just to search his name to see if it's in the article. At the very least there was no detail provided. And same with, I think Annie's story in the Ronan Farrow piece as well. It's very, very minor footnote, if anything at all. That's interesting. So I'd be curious based on the evidence we heard from Tucker, because this to me seems like a thread worth pulling. That's just my opinion. Maybe he feels differently that the evidence is not there to talk about this particular case. Yeah. To pull on this particular thread to your analogy. So what- So this was Ronan Farrow. We got the piece. so this is oh it's a spot oh here we go okay so we'll just read this straight from ronan farrow's piece steve got this extreme claims have circulated the right-wing broadcaster tucker carlson suggested without any apparent proof see how he phrased that yeah that altman was involved in the death of a whistleblower this claim and others have been amplified by rivals altman's sister annie claimed in a lawsuit and in interviews with us that he had essayed her for years beginning when she was three and he was 12 we could not substantiate annie's account this is where i'm writing which altman has denied and his brothers and mother have called utterly untrue and a source of immense pain to our entire family in interviews that the journalist karen howard in conducted for her book empire of ai annie suggested that memories of abuse were recovered during flashbacks in adulthood okay okay so that's the so one mention okay so you i do think based on the fact that we have body cam footage police reports and parents involved in the story as well someone who was very competent working at the company even if you cannot say right now i could go prove this beyond a reasonable doubt or something i think it should have way more mention than just that like the right-wing broadcaster tucker carlson presented this that's number one the annie one and i want to be very careful with this because obviously like we cover stories on here unfortunately all the time this year involving people who you know kids that that that were victims of the worst possible things and i treat that with the utmost reverence and this is not to deny her claims at all but that is a much harder claim right now to prove and it could open up the piece to being attacked unfairly but attacked is like oh they're just trying to get anything on this guy and there could be people that have been improperly branded by the media is just assuming his sister's crazy and that might be a calculated decision to do it that way with that mention i'm not saying that's right i'm not saying that's wrong it's just an observation the whistleblower one should be addressed more and if i did bring ronan in here that would absolutely be a soup du jour question for sure and would you bring people in if they say i i can't talk about or like even pre-interview just say hey this is off the this is not allowed we're not i'm not going to go through this and i'm not going to go through this with you do you or do you still do the interview anyway no i'll explain exactly how i do this yeah that doesn't happen that often when i'm talking with journalists who are working on a story that involves sources that they haven't gotten to go on the record yet and they say i and they're telling me about it but they're like that can't come up on the podcast of course i say no problem you know when the story's out i'd love to talk to you about it when i'm talking with the spooky and the ones that i do bring in here which my thought on that has always been put them on camera for three four hours there that way everyone can see them yeah and they can judge for themselves right and you're going to get a range of bustamante to kiriakou right it's going to be kind of across the board and you see they're converging these two people maybe it's a flash circle yeah right like what was it in chuck and larry marriage is like a circle you know so anyway you know with some of those guys i have to make a call of when they're actually and by call i mean i have to sit here and play guesswork of when they're actually telling the truth behind the scenes of like yo this is actually classified i can't talk about this versus they're doing that because they don't want to talk about it and there have been a couple times where i suspect that they could talk about it afterwards i'm like i think maybe they could have talked about that and they just don't fucking want to and if i got that wrong i got that wrong but they could be using you guys yes because your platform is 100 at this point so they could be get a certain propaganda out 100 limited hangout right they're going to give you some things that your audience might find interesting yes but then there's another thing that they're going to say to inject yes another narrative in which is actually why i've always respected bustamante because a lot of people dislike him it's like a government spokesperson he definitely does speak for the government but since the second the guy got in the car when i picked him up from the airport for the first time i've always known where he stands and i am disagreements yeah with some of his outlooks on the world sometimes he'll tell me something that's a really hard truth i'm like shit maybe he's right about that but then other times i'm like yeah fuck that but like he tells you who he is there are other people and by the way they're not i'm not just talking about people that like worked at a three-letter agency or something there's other people that like they'll say things and then you know they'll be normal and then something will get worked in there and i'm like why did they do that that was kind of interesting like who the fuck are you and so it's a weird dance and i've definitely got it wrong sometimes but i i mean you're doing this today this is i think you said something at the beginning like yeah do you want to talk about what we're going over and i'm like you had said you're working on a big story or something so bring that up whatever that is but like we're just gonna go yeah and this is what we do this is how i do it for everybody and that's all i can do and that's i think a fair way to do it right i think that's that's what the transparency i think is what audiences not only demand but you know out of respect for the audience that's what you should do is you say hey these are my biases and and this is what i'm allowed to talk about or this is what they said we couldn't talk about and just lay that out there and that's why i always say people who are doing unbiased journalism i'm like that doesn't really exist there's no such thing because just based on your editorial process there is a bias of like what you're interested in covering what you're not interested in covering that's an editorial bias so to say that you're completely unbiased you're not interested in covering what you're not interested in the bias is just not possible but what you want to do is lay out for your audience of what the bias is for me it's like hey i'm looking at things that are corruption based i have certain targets that i'm interested in talking about i also you know i don't like either parties i'm not shilling for democrats or republicans but that also comes with you know some some stories that i i might miss because of that bias and that like i don't give the democrats credit here or i don't give the republicans credit or i don't do this or that but it's all sort of there for people to judge versus like a cnn these kinds of programs that pretend to be unbiased and say hey we're just calling balls and strikes but it's like no i think you're not even playing that same game you know you're not even playing baseball at this point i agree so i think that's it's really difficult to to kind of navigate that world especially where you're at right now i don't have to deal with this because i rarely have these interactions with people when you're you're sitting one-on-one with the an occurring or cia agent like to navigate i don't fucking know how to do that yeah and i went it was so like i was always interested in like man what do they do underground and stuff but like the first time that happened was with andy and it was like i became friends with danny jones and danny had had him on and he was like hey you had on jim diorio can i bring him on like yeah sure jim had been in the fbi i knew him long before i did this and he's like you should talk to andy i was like great and that's how it happened i was like whoa this is some real shit right here and you do have to balance that with like okay there's points you got to push back on here you know you can't just sit there and be like let me just totally hear him out for three and a half hours you have to go back and forth like when we sat down the second time episode 107 it was actually his idea he wanted to have whiskey on the show and i was like sponsored or not i got some big old elephant balls we were drinking that whiskey and you know we were fighting on air and i was like i don't know what to do with it i don't care a little bit but like i i think you have to do that sometimes especially when you're working out things and it's someone who's going to be biased from the inside like that and it's hard to i think it's difficult to do and i i've i think publicly commended you for this is like i'm kind of personally done with the dumb interviewer that just lets the guests go on for three hours without really critically challenging the parts that should be challenged or in the case of like somebody like sean ryan i just find it absolutely absurd that he would ask the charlie kirk head of the the uh whoever's doing the security for charlie kirk what a patsy was it's like you should probably know that you should probably know what a patsy is you might want the audience to like you might want to explain it to the audience just to make sure everybody's on the same page but i i think coming across like that it just shows that you're doing some kind of character because you of course sean ryan would know what a patsy is because you could open up with like saying things you know something along the lines of like hey just when you say patsy it means x y or z right clarify what you mean by patsy versus what is a patsy i find that to be really disingenuous and i think you do a really good job of being a smart interview because you want to have that space for your guests to be able to say what they want to say but you also don't come in with a completely like oh yeah i'm just gonna like let them do this without like hey this is a point that doesn't make any sense like you need to press this do you have now now you like you do a lot of your content where you're investigating things and going through it but do you have people around you that will give you honest feedback and like push back on things you do um not like personally i think i just have the audience would probably tell me if i'm getting things wrong or or right and i would say in terms of bless you in terms of the audience here's what i take in terms of their feedback is like i kind of inherently know if i've missed something here I don't want to be audience capture to say you, I should talk about this in this way or not. this way but there are other times when the audience would i think give good feedback and like hey you missed this critical part of the story and then you take that and you learn from it that's kind of how i view my relationship with the audience is like i'm gonna do whatever the fuck i want to do and the stories i want to cover and i appreciate you for coming along this journey with me but also at the same time like i'm not trying to build a cult here like you do you should not agree with me a hundred percent of the time if that's happening that i don't think i'm doing my job properly that's a really important point and it's another thing like i've always talked with alessi about this he and i go back and forth on this all the time but we mentioned audience capture earlier there's a an enormous important difference between like yeah you're gonna get haters and shit and that just kind of is what it is and you have to be able to kind of sift that out like well that person just doesn't like you and you get used to that over the years but then you have to be able to kind of sift that out like well that person just doesn't like you have two types of criticism one type is people just disagreeing with opinions which yeah they should do if you're listening to everything i say and taking that as gold please don't do that very very very bad idea decide for yourself i love when my favorite dms are when people are like yo i disagree i disagree completely on this i fuck with you on this thing and thanks for giving me a good show to think about stuff great that's one thing the other thing is when people give you criticism for whatever it is maybe it's a point you make maybe it's a way you deliver things maybe it's a sitting down with someone and didn't ask them the right things you have to be able to find the spots where it's like even if it hurts and you're like damn i really fucked up where they're right and then you have to evaluate that heavily and that is not audience capture that is understanding that like you're a human being and you make mistakes and if people are nice enough to point that out you better take that advice and move forward but i will say i'm really lucky between alessi and especially back here you know we have a range of of people and and and thoughts because like alessi and deep come from different backgrounds and all that and like they keep me honest right that's who i work out hardcore opinions on behind the scenes and i know based on if deep's like you're a fucking idiot or like if he's not in the long like yeah you're spitting whether or not i actually have good evidence to cash the fucking checks that that my ass is right right and i think that without that i wouldn't be as good at what i do for sure and that's the difference i think you have to surround yourself with people that will challenge you versus like i would say maybe the elon musk of the world like there's nobody around them who is able to challenge them that's the same with donald trump at this point as well like he doesn't have any countervailing voices in his inner circle to be like yo this is not a good idea like this is not a good path for you bro i think that's and that also takes a somebody's like i've been so right and i think maybe it's like if you do things for a long time and you're just really good you're like fuck yeah i'm better than everybody else at this so it's dangerous so what do i give a shit about what people say yeah it's dangerous i'm so smart i've invented rockets yeah an upside down flying car whatever i was gonna ask you this you're kind of going into what what do you make it elon these days um i was just on a pod that we recorded with um bossam yusef because i have a show i was just texting with him today oh really awesome it's a fucking man so um yeah i do this podcast call it todayish with um this lady named danny and she's like more of a tin head than i do but anyways we're doing a show with uh bossam and um well kind of lost my train of thought what was the uh what was the question we were talking about the um oh what do i go yeah okay so i kind of made a fool of myself on that conversation we're like you know you know good billionaires you know like elon might be a good billionaire and they're like what the fuck are you talking about and i'm like yeah why did i say that and i think i think elon is one of these people who i don't see as nefarious necessarily as sam altman or peter teal i think he's more like misguided in a sense of like i don't think he's like a bad person i think he's like autistic and and this and that but i don't think he's like evil and maybe this is maybe i'm wrong about this people probably come at me for for this and maybe i just lost all my credit ability but i would say that he seems a little different than the rest of the tech oligarchs and that i think he does things in in a way where like i disagree with him but i don't think he's like evil like so i think it was a good idea for him to pour 500 million dollars into the texas race and talk about how like talarico's trans or whatever i don't think that was i don't think that was a good move and that might be like his inner circle not saying like hey i don't think that's a good use of your money or you're totally wrong about that but i think that's a good idea but i also don't see him out there trying to like do things as coordinated in a sense of like peter teal with his transhumanist stuff like i think it's to me it just seems a little different that's based on pure outsider i've never spoken to mus i'm not in those circles but i just looking from the outside it doesn't seem as like agenda or ideologically driven that's my take yeah no i i it's a good nuanced take what do you think i don't i don't know these people and i i know there's no such thing as a perfect human and everyone starting with me has a lot of flaws but you elon's one that frustrates the hell out of me sometimes and then there's other things i'm like all right thanks for doing that yeah like you know twitter right i think that was good it seems like unless it's like a 5d chest that i'm missing something it seems like it was good but like but then he's also co-opted sorry to interrupt but he's also then co-op he had to do that and then yahoo apology tour because he wants try to cancel the adl right i'm like are you also captured at this point you know so i think exactly a little bit of yeah sorry keep going no that's exactly i mean that's literally what i'm saying it's whether it's that example or a litany of other things like rockets cool love it great like do i think that means that we should prop up the peter teals of the world who don't can't answer a straight question about whether or not humanity should exist no i don't you know like like there's some there's a lot of people who are like i don't know i don't know i don't know there's some differences here do i necessarily believe ashley st claire that his space lasers put donald trump into office probably not you know what i mean but like do i also think that there are some actions he takes from a funneling perspective that maybe are the same types of criticisms that he puts on george soros yes i do you know it's like it's frustrating he's a frustrating one yeah and it's also not ideal on a on a bigger you know american politics perspective to give these people the sort of power to do what they want to do and to do what they want to do and to do what they want to do and to do what they want to do and to do what they want to do that they have in that you can literally as a billionaire you can decide policies i don't think that's a great idea for democracy like there's really nefarious examples there's even more benign examples of stuff that i've covered in the past of just simply like do we have public schools or not public schools and as a billionaire you could literally go into your area and say i don't like public schools so actually i'm going to fund a school choice program where we get to you get to have money and and put it in private schools and now all of a sudden you're like oh my god i don't all of a sudden you have the growth of charter schools in america very bizarre that they're allowed to just do that versus going through you know democratic processes of like do the voters want public school or do the voters want private school what kind of access do they want and are they getting the right information or are they getting propaganda information that's funded by some special interest group that's right and that seems to be kind of everything that seems to be kind of if you boil everything down in terms of politics of like what's fucking broken in america it's just the money in politics has gotten way too out of control if you were just to limit you know elections to certain funds it's like hey this is all publicly funded if you can get x number of signatures you're on the ballot and you go out we'll do a debate equal air time everybody hears your ideas whoever agrees with you the most wins that's right versus like we're gonna eliminate certain people from the ballot you know i saw this in california where they literally the democratic party and this is one of the most important things that's going on in the back to the democrats being evil they have a larger litigation budget against third parties to sue them off the ballot then the entire uh budget of the libertarian and green party combined just the lawsuit but just for suing people off the ballot and they did this great lawyers yeah and they did this to rfk junior the only reason why rfk junior went with trump is because in every single state that he tried to run in you know the only reason why rfk junior went with trump is because in every single state that he tried to run in they sued him off the ballot or they were in process of litigation and he just couldn't do he didn't have the funds to defend every single one of those things because initially he said he he ran this is again we were like kind of pigeonholed in like this kind of short memory thing but he ran as a democrat in 2024 and the democratic party said nope joe biden is the one we won't allow a primary and so he's fine with all due respect yeah yeah as a kennedy like you know one of the greatest dynasties of the democratic party you're like sorry that's nuts i forgot about that right he was he was literally on the democratic ticket i think until like june or july ish maybe i'm not sure of the month and then he decided after he couldn't run as a democrat he said all right i'm doing independent and then he was trying to get ballot access and i know people on his team they're trying to state by state to get on the ballot and then state by state the democrats started suing him which is fucked up yeah and i and this is the party of democracy by the way that that is out there to to save us from fascism not not very democrat yeah but that you know the thing about rfk there's been some interesting things that have happened since he got into hhs and all that but i remember my buddy tom tommy j you ever seen his channel oh yeah so he's a fucking boy but the first time he was ever in here another great independent investigator yes yeah just a great person too but he's back in here i think we recorded march 2024 that was back in episode 197 and he was talking about he was gonna go get unprecedented access for two days with rfk it was on the campaign trail i saw the video actually yeah it was a good video and at the time like he he really liked him he was an interesting guy and i said you know i don't have anything against him personally and all that and some of the things he says were very interesting like when you saw him really have his moment in summer 2023 like when we went on joe rogan and all that he said so many things that made like a lot of sense very moderate yeah i was like oh okay that's interesting but i said i i can't get my head around one thing and tommy's like what's that i'm like you remember you remember phone books he's like what do you mean i'm like before we had iphones and stuff like when i was a very little kid my mom had a paper phone book yeah and it had everyone you knew and it would usually have their name their physical address where they lived emails home phones and cell phone numbers i said at the time i had obviously two living parents and four living grandparents and everything now unfortunately i only have two living grandparents always appreciate your grandparents while you have them but you know that's six people and they were the six closest people in my life and when you look across all of the and they all had an email even the grandparents when you look across all the emails and phone numbers i across them and my parents i think it was like 14 contacts something like that 14 or 15 across six people total when you look at the black book that jeffrey epstein and you look at robert and mary kennedy there's like 9 10 or 11 contacts in there down to the end it's his ex-wife who is his ex-wife who is his ex-wife who is his ex-wife now deceased down to his ex-wife's maid of honor who in the file this under you can't make this shit up category happened to be andrew cuomo's wife like he had that personal number written as mary's maid of honor and then in parentheses like whatever cuomo and i'm like if you have nine or ten contacts for someone you know well you know really fucking well yeah you have a contact to their garage at one of their homes that's interesting and you're saying i think i think some of that's maybe aged okay like bringing that up i don't know what your thoughts are there but no he was definitely i mean he i think he openly talked about being on the jet or whatever we were all basically we're hunting for dinosaur obviously like i'm a big fan of that and there was no sexual proclivities or anything my kids came with me in fact and yeah i knew him but everyone fucking knew the guy obviously have you practiced that no that was really i don't know the first time was that this can't be the first time that no no no like the first time i did it a couple years ago it was just there it was it it was so good it's because he he he sits like this like really tight so it makes you tighten up your vocal cords more so you just take what he's saying but i mean that's what he said he's like you know we were just fossil hunting or some shit he knew all the people he was on the pod the flagrant podcast and he was like naming all the people he's like i knew bill cosby i knew this person they're like did you hang out with anybody good andrew schultz is like and so like yeah i think coming up i think that that's how politics worked i think back then with like the the kennedy days like you just you had this super elite circle and that's kind of the world he was in he just knew all these characters do i think he was a bad guy i don't know for a fact i mean he was a an environmental lawyer for 30 years you don't do that necessarily like you can't fake that right right he really did go out and go after monsanto and bayer those were all very true things but then you see him in hhs now and he is i think the only no there's two i think coalition builders still left you know you're talking about the tulsi gabbard folks you know the people who joined trump and had this epic kind of coming together moment vibes were high in 2024 i think he's one of the one one or two people left in there still and you have to wonder how do you go from suing monsanto to now endorsing the use of glyphosate and expanding that use in the food supply what happened was this the plan from the very beginning or did he get in there and you know they have more shit on him that then he realized like what the fuck happened sir is that you with a 10 year old girl yeah looks like it looks like and if it's not santo thing yeah we can make this go away that has to be something like that i think you know and i don't know if that even i mean it might be even more serious than that now because i think you can get away with doing the 10 year old girl now in in today's trump administration it was what i'm saying i see what you're saying right it's like it's almost like a prerequisite like are you a pedophile or not if you are you're hired you know that's unfortunately i say this jokingly but that that's like kind of the the atmosphere that we're in what is jones says like every ballots pick your favorite pedophile yeah it's like what the fuck yeah doing like what are we what's going on here so then you have to wonder um what what the what they say anyways i don't know how i got in the rfk situation but i don't remember either but i gotta pee real quick so let's take a quick break all right bye and we're back from the sponsor brand oh he's you're doing it for me i love it i always say and we're back here we go but you know i i've been i've been waiting to ask you about this all day james obviously like it's personal to a lot of people out there we've seen the epstein files over the past now almost a year start to come out we did not get the full promise of what we were going to get we had poor redactions also the people that should have been redacted like i don't know fucking victims were not redacted and you know there's laws that have been passed that they have to release stuff that now they're not releasing and yet here we are sitting towards the end of 2026 and it is a back burner story when in fact it's for my money the worst i think like the worst story i've ever personally looked at when you take into account the scale and power do you think we are ever going to see any level of dare i say the word justice related to jeffrey epstein and the people who enabled him and participated in these things with him well i mean this is once again getting to that black pill situation but i think it's hard for me to imagine getting any sort of accountability at scale maybe they'll get one guy two guys i don't know but even that would be a stretch just because there are so many democrats as well as republicans that are implicated in the file so now we have a near democratic super majority right it's insane they have like probably like 57 seats um in in the senate and a overwhelming majority in the house but are they going to pursue any kind of legal action against all these folks like leon black and and uh what do you think about that what's that guy's name new york giant steve tish i think his name is oh we forgot about him yeah he's also literally in the files i looked at this and i'm like dude there's literally an email that says he's hanging out with young girls yeah and might be worth a gander right right so at least an investigation i just don't see it happening because are they really going to break the system unless the the voters somehow demand it and that's why they stop the third party movements is because they always you just go back and forth between these guys with the same promises of you know accountability affordability no more wars democrats are in i just don't see it unfortunately i don't see it i i i i pray and i wish it could happen and at least get one get bill gates get somebody you know and then we can have a national reckoning of like all right moving forward this is going to be a different government versus i versus like just the same old shit right in two i mean what i imagine in two years time is that we're going to be talking about the exact same issue that we're talking about and we're going to be talking about the exact same issue that we're talking about except we're going to have a republican candidate talking about affordability again because the democrats aren't going to do anything about it we're going to be talking about ending wars because the democrats are not going to end this war in my opinion they're already punting it they're already saying well this is an appropriations issue because it was hakeem jeffrey was asked whether or not he will basically shut down the government to end the war and he's like well you know we have we have the appropriations in january blah blah blah so it's like i just don't see them doing that and i'm like well you know we have we have the appropriations in january and i'm like well you know we have the appropriations in january and we have the appropriations in january that because that's really what it takes is like to end the war you have to threaten the money i don't know if they're going to do it so long answer to your question is no yeah sadly cynically i i think i think you're right we'll do our little part on our little teeny corner of the internet to try to see something happen and keep the story alive as we have but it it that one more than any other really just sickens me because of how blatant it is and what i think is really the trillion dollar question is is obviously every presidential administration dating back to at least clinton has covered this up and left and right and as you said it's a very bipartisan issue in all the wrong ways you know and not released anything and and that's a huge problem but like the 180 from yeah i'm going to release the files on this that you got from donald trump when the guy did die under his watch by the way and he did know him and the 180 from 2015 donald trump bringing it up on the campaign trail about looking to the left and the right and the right "to this guy Jeffrey Epstein with the island," to, "Are we still talking?" quote are we still talking about this creep we have more important things to do this is a democratic psyop what is that what is that to quote tucker carlson what what is that what is that uh i think it's just the swamp i think that's literally like we're stuck in this i would say illusion of choice constantly back and forth right because the american public obviously is repudiating they're rejecting this rule from the elites and you go to another party that's also ruled by the elites so i think it's i would say it's a bit you know uh what's the right word i'm looking for naive to think that it's going to be a little different now it's my job and i think your job as well to continue to push the issue to make this um to make this kind of like i would say it's our job to make them a deal with this it's like i liken this to like the way you know i try to do my journalism or uh which is like i want to force stories in the open to make it so that let's say the new york times or the washington post they they have to cover this story or else they would be embarrassed not to that's the job of independent journalists is to push stories to the point where the mainstream media has to cover it so then it's our job to make this a story the mainstream parties have to address it or else there will be consequences from an electoral perspective if they don't and that's just i see that as my duty to do and so yeah i will continue to be talking about this i mean there are so many ties right even the lizard lady like it's a fun story you know susan dallow face melting off in the white house i like that that is a an epstein story because she is deeply tied into that and if you look at she yeah because her her her husband michael dell is like in terms about your phone but he's in the book he's in that phone book several times and if you look at the good guys of ai right i was doing this dig um very recently on dario amadei right because i'm like sam altman bad guy let's let's dig into the anthropic guy the wife's a problem the wife is a big problem where she what allegedly not allegedly this is just out in the open hit up jeffrey epstein to start her porn company or whatever that's right and i'm like how did this do or how did this chick end up in the life of dario amadei okay she she dated the ceo of google at one point eric schmidt and then all of a sudden is now linked up to dario amadei and that's how anthropic was funded is through that past connection so thinking about my hat i'm like is this another real close is this another one of these situations and i and i'm using honeypot obviously in a loose sense i'm not literally saying she's a an intelligence officer but is she a person that's going in and influencing the way these people behave because i think love is one of these things or relationships one of these things that make you do crazy illogical shit so we can think about in this sense there's other honeypot situations where they're used as some sort of bargaining chip we can talk about like monica lewinsky and the clinton and how it was used by the israelis to force the release of honeypot and i'm using honeypot as a way to force the release of honeypot and i'm using honeypot as a way to force the release of a an israeli spy jonathan pollard and who knows why didn't he get released with that because it took a while for him because the cia um had the cia at the time said i'm going to immediately resign if you do that george said he was going to resign tenant said if you do this i'm resigning all right w george yeah and that was a step too far at that time the cia has degraded a little bit since then i would say in terms of the quality of the leadership but at that time i mean the bar was already so that's in that sense i call that a honeypot as well as like did israel put her there or she was just another useful asset they can use i don't know i've talked about sydney sweeney being a honeypot in a sense of like honeypotting america right where she is now a person if you looked in that ad that that sports betting app i'm not going to say the name because i'm not going to give them free advertising but the israeli national anthem is the background music for that app or in that ad is it really oh yeah oh my god that's not even like subliminal song the tikva yeah the whatever oh yeah that's like a holocaust remembering song or some shit it's like look at titties everyone gets that so it's these kinds of psychological operations that i'm kind of being aware because on one hand it's interesting to look into but on one on another it's like this is how shit actually happens right if you're talking about the hailey stevens like why did she come out and endorse a person mike rogers who she like supposedly hated it's all the tweets that said she hated him yeah and it's because of that cross-eyed dude in her life how did he get there how yeah so like that and like that's the best she could do you look at that guy i mean she's not necessary yeah i don't i don't want to comment on people's you know there's somebody well let me be politically incorrect for a second she's not a 10 but like fuck man i feel like you do a little better i don't know maybe he's got deep pockets but in that that's just the person like i said that's who masada signed her who do you so obviously epstein was clearly for many years working closely with people high up in israeli intelligence that's like crystal clear literally had the former prime minister and like special forces legend ahud barak in his house all the time and was getting him into companies like palantir and then obviously i think another thing that at least i have expanded on looking at the files that were released is like there seems to be more links with my own government with the cia as well than i previously thought not that i didn't think there were links there but like that seems to be deeper but like do you think it's also beyond that with him as far as like who he worked for and what his overall role was i see him and this is my uneducated take but i i think he is like a facilitator of all these intelligence operations and i do think that there is not really that much of a distinction between cia operations and masada i think they're very closely interlinked i think who was it that said i think it was under rumsfeld i don't know what the guy's name was i can't remember now but he was basically saying i don't even run my defense so i think it was rumsfeld he's like i don't even run my fucking thing anymore it's like israel is running it so i do think that there's some he's at the pentagon he's at the pentagon but he's like i don't really control yeah joey you might want to look into just fact check me fact check me like there's some somebody in the u.s government says i don't really run my own stuff it's like masada i can't remember who exactly it was but i think there's a lot of like co-mingling of this so it's not really that distinct it's not like as separate as we think it is i think that even when you look back at the u.s.s liberty in 67 in 67 the cia was heavily involved in that so colonel lawrence wilkin wilkerson former chief of staff to secretary of state colin powell obviously under the iraq years and stuff recalled the that rumsfeld you're right remarked referring to the pentagon around 2002 to 2004 something to the effect of hell i don't run my building not ideal it's not ideal not ideal you know what's strange about this one james and this is like where there's a very weird nuance to it and i don't i at this point i don't even have an opinion on it i don't know what to think is that it's very clear like when you look at say political appointees like the director of cia the the guy ratcliffe right now like he was funded up the ass by a pack for years and years and years they've been caught on tape bragging about it and stuff like there are elements in power structures within cia and other three-level three-letter agencies that seem to have like weird relationships with israel in in every way when when i talk about the power structures within cia and other three-level i talk to some of these spooky people though like for a long time it was off air and now it's even on air i'm talking like back in 2022 2023 pre-october 7th they all fucking hated massad oh yeah hated israel oh my god it was like oh like i had one guy say that he enjoyed working with the palestinian intelligence i shit you not and i'm like are they just feeding me that as bullshit that's very possible they're very possible or like all these people are they saying it because by the way like bustamante was a guy who said that and i'm paraphrasing and kiriakou like the opposites were both guys saying it and kiriakou i knew after october 7th to be clear but like bustamante pre-october 7th was saying shit like that like oh there's such a fucking pain in the ass and i'm like okay but this is the same agency that was in cia and other three-level three-level three-level three-level it was like built around guys like james jesus angleton that had very strange relationships so i wonder what the compartmentalization of that is because i see actions whether it's like rumsfeld saying something like this or more importantly looking at actions that have been taken in the middle east even just over the past 20 years and you're like well that didn't seem to be good for us seem to be pretty goddamn good for them and you can't tell me intelligence isn't involved with that of course it is so it's a weird i don't know what to think of that i think it's something i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i don't know what to think of that i think it was a relationship that we developed over the years that was we calculated that it could be beneficial to the united states and our foreign policy objectives over there in the middle east and then it got it a little out of control where sort of, I don't know what you call this, but like the tail coming back to bite the head or something like that. And now it's gone completely out of hand because at the time, this is my research on the Liberty, is that prior to that, it was the head of Mossad literally came and met with Angleton at the CIA. And supposedly, allegedly, they had some discussions about the Six-Day War, various strategies. And this, according to Phil Turney, one of the USS Liberty guys, said, this is part of the plan. It's like, they sent us there to potentially be blown up or attacked because it could draw the US into that war if necessary. That's fucking crazy. And they had, I mean, this is actually reported that they had a literal bomber the day of the attack, the morning of prior to the attack, sitting on the runway at an Air Force base in the US waiting for a go, no go. That's insane. And those are the things that, you know, we're not really supposed to talk about too much. You know, we had the, even the captain of the Liberty, William McGonigal was like, there should be an investigation on this. They had no real investigation. It was one of those, like, from people that I heard, like primary source, like I was interviewed, I told them everything. And I was told, if you ever say this publicly, we're going to come after you. It's like everything you just told me right now, that's insane. That's insane. That's insane. That's insane. You better shut the fuck up or where else? How many sailors were killed in that attack in 67 deep? This is on the USF. 34. I want to see a 34. It might have been 33. Oh, it can't be. That number is sticking in my head. 34. Well, deep actually is in the Freemasons. He was telling us the other day. I heard that the other day. What's that? There's an unknown, there's an unknown three foe level. So maybe that's actually the real symbolism. I did hear that. Cause you were at the Peter Thiel. He was, don't, don't, don't put that on me, Ricky. No, I'm talking about the Peter Thiel. I'm talking to, yeah. That was deep. Yeah, it was me. You went to like Europe to be in this like closed door. No, I was in Nashville. Oh, Nashville. Good barbecue. Oh, okay. Yeah, we don't do, we don't do the, the Germany trip until the end of the year. Oh, got it. So that's on the calendar in December. Trying to think of that castle. There's an important castle we go to out there. Eagle's Nest. Is that what it is? Yeah, it might be it. Just saying. I know what that is actually. No, no, it's not. No, obviously deep is not in the Freemasons, everyone. It's a bit, but there were people like, oh my God, the truth comes out. It's like sarcasm. Like, come on. But so 34 were killed in that. Yeah. And it's like false flags on your own people are bad enough. False flags in collusion potentially with another government somehow even makes it worse. Yeah. No, it does. And I think that's at a very base level. And speaking of when you talk to people with the intelligence folks that, you know, who hate Israel, I've talked to people, you know, my personal life who've served in the military and they're like, we fucking, I hate Israel. It's like, they're literally on a, um, a helicopter going through that area. And they said, dude, they fucking shot at us. And this is not a story that's really reported. It's just like a thing that happens. It's like, or I don't think they, I'm misquoting. I think they were like sort of threatening. And I'm like, why would they be threatening your, your, uh, helicopter? If we're supposedly allies and like, they just didn't like us being there. They just didn't like us being in that airspace. It's strange, man. And I do have, I have guys that are in the military right now who obviously can't ever come on a podcast and stuff like that. No, they got some thoughts on that. I'll put it that way. And the, the morale. And they all kind of know it too, right? I mean, you don't have to say anything publicly, but they all kind of know that this war is for Israel. It's, it's a kind of a butt of all the jokes. Yes. It's. It's really the, not acceptance, but the complete resignation to the fact that, yep, this is what this is, is really disheartening to hear from these guys. Cause that's not what they signed up for. And like, these are good people. They're the ones that people in suits in DC put at the tip of the spear. Right. And put in danger. And I'll say this, I was talking to someone last night who had just talked to a Navy SEAL who I don't know, who had been telling him it is not a 0% chance that. A nuke of some sort is used in Iran. And I was like, ah, I hate this scare tactics, but like, that's a, I knew who this person was talking to. And I'm like, that's a serious guy. So I called a Navy SEAL that I know. And without mentioning that and asked them, what are you hearing? And he also said like, Hey, I think we're going to be all right, but, uh, it's not a 0% chance. And there are people, there are, what did he say? There are actions being taken that are in line. With preparing to be on an, some, it's something like an increased war footing, like a massive step up in war footing. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but he's like, it's a little strange when there's, and they saw it coming with their polling when there's like a blue wave and you have like two months here where, you know, you don't have that in power yet. Yeah. A little strange that they're planning for that now. And I'm just like, I don't even care. It's not even for criticism. Do whatever else you want to do, please. For the love of fucking God, do not. Like that is such a, that is such a bell that you cannot unring. I can't even begin to describe to you how awful, I don't have to describe it to people. That's the worst possible thing that could happen. And this, I think, I think you guys are talking about this last week, probably related to the countries preparing for doomsday or telling people to stock up on food. And yeah, which felt very psyop-y. But at the same time, like, then I'm hearing something like this and I'm like, it's not a 0% chance that that's psyop-y if they're really talking about this. Right. I think there's part of it could be a psyop from a political standpoint. The other could be like, Hey, maybe there's still a couple of good people in government saying, Hey, we want to prepare for this just in case shit goes wrong. I think there's a number of reasons for that is it's could be war. It could also be like, I think the technology for AI is good enough where some hacker could literally go and shut down the grid if they wanted to do it, they could definitely do it. Or it could be, you know, the, the more. Tin heads would be like, they're planning this, you know, this is a, from the inside, they will do this to get control or 15 minute cities or whatever it might be digital ID, all these things. And that's the constant thing that like, I have to continue to deal with when I do my coverage is like, am I feeding into the psyop or am I actually doing coverage that will help? Is it helpful for me to talk about this issue or am I literally playing into their hands? No, that's really good self-awareness that you're asking that question. Cause I, I also ask that question all the time. And sometimes afterwards I'm like, fuck, you know, it's like, you don't even know. That's where it gets to the useful idiot scale again. It's like, when are we on it and when aren't we, and it is, you know, it's, it's a difficult balance sometimes, but like, I just try, you know, I try to get the best confidence intervals I can based on the information I'm able to get, which is limited to be clear. You know, I do with that what I can. And it seems like that's what you do too. Hopefully people can accept that in, in the audience. Like that's, that's the bar you gotta hold yourself to. That should be everybody's. I mean, that, that to people doing the job that we do, like if you're not self-reflecting in that way, I think it's, you're doing a, a disservice potentially if you're not reflecting, I'm always reflecting every single day when I do a story and that's why I don't do that many stories. I'm like every day, there's maybe one story that I dig into a day. And it's because if my thing is volume, then for sure, I'm going to be sweating. I'm going to be swept up in this kind of thing. So I have to be very deliberate about like, okay, what do I want to talk about it? Or what do I, what am I talking about today? Why do I want to talk about it? What's the context around it? What do I want people to take away? So if I go through that process, I'm trying to basically mitigate against me getting swept up in something that maybe I didn't think too much about versus like people who are going volume. It's like, you don't even have the time to really assess the implications of this story before you even put it out. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. That's the other battle. It's like speed of going through someone's popping up like, oh, here it is. And then it's like, all right, do I have enough time to accrue the evidence necessary? That's tough too. You know? Dr. Andy Roark: But I think you've built a decent business model where you don't necessarily have to do that. Cause that's not what you're, you're not. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh yeah. Yeah. Dr. Andy Roark: Right. You want to, you want to build something where you're like, hey, I'm not a breaking news guy. I'm a guy that maybe you won't like hear from me first. But when I give you some, it's because I've researched it at least a little bit to the best of my ability and giving you context around why this information is important versus being the first to report on something before you really understand what it really means. Dr. Dr. Andy Roark: And I'm not trying to self-contradicate myself, I get things wrong all the time too. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, but that's, it's, it's a good perspective. I think one thing that we got really lucky with this year is when people, you know, we've been bullshitting on Patreon for like two years. Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: We've been doing a bi-weekly episode, just reacting to stuff going on for like two or 300 people. And then we did that episode just as always in early February after the files dropped and the patrons were like, you must make this public. Then it went public, went crazy and we turned it into a weekly weekend episode where we kind of get to round up things going on. And one big advantage of that is it lets me do my job doing my two long form sit downs with random people during the week to the point that when people, when difficult things things come up or more comes out about things or places where i made a decision not to challenge i can later at least doesn't mean i'm right by the way but i can provide context of like yo here's where my head was at let me know what you guys think of that that's a nice hack because that gives you good audience feedback because they can see like oh i thought julian might agree with that thing or disagree with that thing that guest was saying now i actually know where he stands maybe it was what i thought or it's actually the opposite of what i thought i didn't plan that out obviously this was an accident that this happened but i think we're gonna keep that going deep and i think i think it's i i think it helps with with context for sure and and people will wait for that context versus if you're like a you know i'm gonna throw aaron parnis under the bus because i don't like the guy and i'm like if all you do is regurgitate reuters as soon as they hit publish like there's only a certain amount of value you provide and you're probably at the very least you know in a in a generous description like a useful idiot but at worst you're like doing basically mainstream media propaganda to your audience and i have a lot of people who message me because i did a video a while back like ripping aaron parnis and they were not happy with i got a lot of people unfollowed me for that because that's okay and that's fine i'm like hey i'm i gotta you gotta be open to hearing things you don't agree with and if you're one of those people that needs to hear from only people you agree with i'm probably not the guy for you that's well said man yeah where you see yourself in five years with this you've been kind of ripping over the last couple years this is um you're you're like my boss here at the consulting firm i'm gonna put you in the that was the whole point um honestly okay so i have a couple different things that like i i'm hoping to be able to do one is like i would love to be able to like work on something like meaty and substantial as far as like investigating a big story whether it be in like a documentary format or or what be able to like work on something that's takes a little bit more time to do and that opportunity hasn't necessarily presented itself i think it'll have to be you know a good moment or just all the cards have to align for that to happen but that's some a skill that i want to continue to develop right i look at this as like yeah i'm doing a job but i also want to learn new things so like i've never made a long-form documentary i've made a lot of like 10 to 15 20 minute youtube style documentaries which is one skill and then to do long form an hour and a half that's a whole different thing so it has to be the right project i'd be interested in it the people involved have to you know have to be the the right folks but that's something that i'm interested in doing so i see hopefully maybe five years for that to happen and then the other thing is to like kind of tapping into my background and educational training to create something that's gonna like help people make different decisions or like actually provide a tangible product for folks who are like hey what can i do about something right because i think back to the voting thing i think the only true vote that really matters anymore is like voting with your dollar i don't think voting for democrat or republican is really going to change anything the last vote that we can take is the vote with the dollar so it's like can i provide some kind of thing for folks to like help them very easily it's going to be a very low barrier to entry in terms of like understanding uh you don't have to get real deep into stuff but like to understand the implications of like the products that you purchase the type of transaction that you make on a daily basis who that money is going to that i think matters if you're funding something that you don't agree with you might not even know right it's like hey you spend x dollars a month on something and it's actually going towards something that you have a complete you know moral problem with you might want to know that and then be able to divert that spending somewhere else and i think collectively that's the only way it's like how do you get rid of the epstein people well you know then you identify who the epstein guys are and all their business ventures and you don't support any of them that's really the only way useful yeah right that'd be great right because you remember because that's that's that's like that's what they don't want you to do if you remember the the app mint i don't know you might be too young for that actually mint mint.com it's a budgeting app that was so good like you just put in your shit and it tells you like how much money you're spending and you know the the proper amount you should spend they got so intuit bought that app and basically shut it down they killed it i think from a conspiratorial perspective they don't want you to know how much money you're spending they don't want you to manage your money wisely because they want you to funnel that money towards credit cards they want you to take on debt so they don't really want you to manage your money well and so like how cool would be if we were to relaunch that but then with an extra layer of information and i'm just spitballing here extra layer of information on like where your money it's like you can see on a bar it's like hey you're spending x dollars on public corporations you're spending x dollars on private equity here who here's like the beneficiaries of all your money and then so you're not only budgeting but you're also aware of where who's getting that money that's useful that's what i think really cool so like i want to blend some of the stuff that reporting that i do take this information and then blend it with the the stuff that i learned in business school you know how to build the proper business that actually is sustainable versus the way they do it now where you make you know three billion dollars but you're like 800 billion in debt or whatever it is nowadays that how they run businesses it was just as like let's just grow until we ipo and then we pass the buck to retail investors that's like literally what's happening with spacex and all these people they're not sound businesses they just grow and then they essentially shift the ownership from the individual early investors the vc guys to the retail investors and then you're stuck holding the bag that's the business model you ever seen that scene in margin call where jeremy irons is talking to kevin space you haven't seen that movie i haven't seen oh my god margin calls an incredible movie it's based on like loosely based on but basically based on lehman brothers in september 2008 when it was all collapsing and kevin spacey plays one of the high up guys there who's like oh my god we're crashing the world this is crazy jeremy irons play who's like scar in lion king plays a great fucking bad guy he's playing the ceo who's like it's just money yeah you know and there's a scene where he's literally explaining kevin spacey's like they're sitting there and literally in like a in a in a skybox of like a of a of a of a tower like overlooking the manhattan skyline eating fucking caviar and he's like it's just money well it's just money we'll just make more of it and pass it on to someone and kevin spacey's like you're a psychopath he's like yes and that's how the world works that's exactly how you're describing it because like they just find a way to be like yeah how can we just you know spread this around it's like saul goodman explaining money laundering to to brian cranston and why am i blanking out right now i'm breaking bad oh my god walt walt to explain explain to walt you know money laundering he's here and then boom, poof, there it goes. That's all these corporations do. They just have better branding. That's right. Crazy, man. Well, dude, keep doing all the work you're doing. Obviously, like I love your investigations. They're a lot of fun. Keep wearing the hat too. I like that. Not just that one. The bucket hat. The bucket hat's a good look in your videos. You look intense like when it comes on. Oh, yeah. I don't mean to look- You're like pointing up. Fuck, I got to watch this now. But it's been fun talking with you. We're going to have to do this again, all right? Dude, I appreciate you for having me. You know, it's an honor to be in this chair. A lot of great people have sat in this chair. A lot of not so great people have also sat in this chair. So jury's out on which one I am. On that note, everybody else, give it a thought. Get back to me and go subscribe to James's channel. It's linked right down below. We'll collab it too so people can see it. Peace.