Saint Uno On Exposing The Music Industry From Record Deal To Streaming Royalties (Full Interview)

Now what is the correct way to pronounce your stage name? I go by Saint Uno. That's how you say it. Saint Uno, just how it's built. And be that as it may. Do people mispronounce this? Um, they don't really mispronounce, but a lot of people find out about me through social media, so, you know, I've been going on stage sometimes and people say, this is Saint Uno ATL. Like they'll add the ATL just because that's like my Instagram and social handles, but my name is Saint Uno. Saint Uno was taken, so I added the ATL and on platforms. And speaking of socials, care to share, just in case there's some fraud or scammy profiles about you, or of you, uh, care to share the official, uh, or not official. Let's reverse that. You're most prominently used, you're most frequently used platforms on social media, where those in the audience getting to know you for the very first time here can find this, uh, screen name, username, or this handle that. Right. Well, I use mainly YouTube, Instagram and TikTok, and I'm Saint Uno ATL across all of those uniformity. And aside from, uh, mispronunciation, uh, what about misspellings? Do people misspell this stage name of yours at all? Uh, no, they might abbreviate the Saint to ST, which I don't really have a problem with, but. And speaking of abbreviations, is, is this the only abbreviation you accept? Are there any other abbreviations you're okay with as well? Uh, that's the only one. And zooming out, do you prefer people referring to you by the abbreviation you just approved, or your stage name in full? I prefer the stage name in full. Now, when it comes to this stage name, is there any connection to the following recording artists? Um, Saint John. No, it's funny. You say that too, because I always, when I'm searching myself, he always comes up first and literally today, I kind of made it a mental mission of mine. I was like, one day, you're going to type in Saint and Uno is going to appear before Saint John. We're not quite there yet. And also, what about Saint Lamar? I haven't seen that one, but. So just curious there. Now, okay, were you aware of the existence during the creation of your stage name with at least Saint John? It's hard to say. I've been going by it for so long. I don't really know. If I did, I didn't care enough to let it stop me, but I can't say definitively. And, uh, with that being said, has there been any feedback from their fans? Excuse me, his fans, or your fans to, uh, the stage name, commonly using Saint in both of them? No, I haven't heard anything. I mean, it's kind, there's so many rappers. It's kind of hard to not have overlap unless you just have like one of these completely new, like, kid names or it's just like a bunch of symbols and stuff like that. So, you know, it's like 5,000 littles. I'm cool with two saints, you know. And, uh, can you provide the origin story behind this stage name of yours? Yeah, so I've gone by Uno pretty much my whole life. Uh, the reason for that, my government name is Nigel, and there was a popular cartoon back in the day called Code Names Kid Next Door. I don't know if you're familiar, but the leader in it, his name was Nigel, and he was Nigel Uno, because he was, he was number one. He was actually bald too. I was in a bald when I was a kid, but it kind of funny how that came through fruition. But, uh, so a lot of people just started calling me that based on that cartoon and also because I played basketball and my number was 11. So, you know, it's like Uno to one. So, Nigel Uno, Uno was kind of my thing, but when I started rapping, who did influence my name, not St. John, was a rapper, Uno, the activist. He was really popular and prominent, especially in Atlanta when I started taking music seriously about eight, nine years ago. So, I was talking to my friends. I was like, I don't want to just be Uno, because if you type that in, you're just going to find Uno, the activist. What can I, what can I, what can I name myself, guys? And I threw a bunch of names at the wall. None of them stuck. And then we just kind of, it was like a group chat we had. And then we just kind of said, you know what, forget about it. Uh, we'll figure it out. Went to sleep, woke up that next morning, and then I typed in the group chat, St. Uno, question mark. And they were like, yo, that's for you. So, uh, I just kind of ran with it. Shout to my friends, some really overshot. Those are the people who helped me come up with the name. And based on your response here, I do want to reasset question again, uh, in regards to Uno, the activist, any feedback from his fans or yours over the common use of Uno? Um, not, not so much. I haven't heard anything. Uh, I'm, to be honest, relatively unknown, especially until as of recent. So, uh, maybe when I get bigger, people will start to say, oh, you're biting or you took that. But right now, I'm kind of, I haven't, I haven't experienced that yet. And even though you, uh, you know, describe yourself as unknown and things of that nature, you never know being poses type of question because, you know, every artist is different. There are some that are more detailed or anal or critical about their own name, likeness, brand, appearance, so on and so forth. So even as unknown as one may be to one's perception, uh, an artist could very well be paying attention to you. And you may not know that. Um, so that's why I still posing the question regardless. Right. Uh, but let's back up here and dissect some of these things. You just said, uh, with this response as well, uh, Nigel, any, uh, uh, meaning behind that, you know, which of your parents, uh, came up with this? Why they came up with this? Why your name? So on and so forth. Yeah. Um, I mean, my mom chose the name. So I have an older brother. His name is Harold. He's named after my dad. So since he kind of got dibs on the first one, I was like, okay, I guess you get the name the second born. And my mom had a friend whose son was named Nigel and she really liked the name. So she just kind of took it and here I am. A lot of people think if I'm like Caribbean or from a UK because it's a popular name there, but no. Just from Atlanta. My mom like the name. And because Uno is a Spanish word or Latin word and so on and so forth, uh, have people wondered if you do have any of that in your lineage? Yeah. People had, which was kind of surprising to me, but um, I was on YouTube live one time and some, somebody like commented that I was like, oh, it's like, I'm a mixed Hispanic rapper too. And I was like, I'm not a mixed Hispanic rapper, but more power to you. So just for clarification here, well, we're on the subject of race at the city nationally. Care to share what you are exactly as far as you know at this point. Yeah. I mean, um, I'm what you would call African-American black, I guess. I actually did an ancestry. So like 75% Nigerian and then the other 25 is like Ireland and UK and stuff like that. So there's some, there's some white people in the mix, but you know, if we're still going by the one drop rule, I guess that makes me black. So. And you know, there is a debate on ancestry.com and, uh, you know, that tool there. Uh, some people, believe in what they read and the statistics that they see and some don't, some question it. Uh, what about you? Where do you stand on that debate? Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty much of a skeptic in general with things. So I kind of did it. I really just did it to make YouTube content. I was like, oh, let's find out my ethnicity. So yeah, I take everything with a grain of salt, but, you know, given the fact that the, you know, American slave lineage, we don't have too much information anyway. It's like, I, you know, your guess is as good as mine. So. And what about the number 11 that you were wearing when you were playing basketball? Was that just by coincidence? Or was that a number you chose or picked because, uh, the Uno significance? I think I, uh, just, I think it just found me. And then I just kind of stuck with it. I didn't choose it at first, but like it probably, I probably got it one season when I was a kid. And then I just, I don't want to use that again. So. And just for clarification, uh, you know, we've talked about a variety of details in regards to your stage name, but for all intents and purposes. And if you said this already, I apologize, but, uh, because I didn't hear it the first time you said it. If you did, was this a stage name? St. Uno that you created in its entirety or someone helped coin for you as well? Um, no, it was me in my front. Well, I said, I've always been Uno just because of sports, but the St. I was throwing a bunch of names against the wall. And then my friends in my group chat, they helped me solidify. I was basically looking for their feedback. So it was, it was a collaborative effort. I'll give them some credit. And you did mention that. So I apologize there. Okay. Now moving forward, as you erase, uh, ethnicity, nationality, but, uh, even though, uh, you know, the majority of you doesn't include any Hispanic or Latin, uh, characteristics there, uh, what's the main language you speak at this point? Speak English, uh, speak a little bit of Spanish just based off of learning stuff in school. Um, I went to Atlanta International School actually for middle school, and they have a pretty intensive language program. So I picked up a good deal of Spanish. I could probably find my way around Latin America, but I wouldn't say I speak Spanish, though. - And how many grades of Spanish language did you take back in those days? - Like four years. - And was that a requirement or an elective for you back then? - It was a requirement at the school I went to, Atlanta International School. They have a kind of big emphasis on languages. - And just for clarification, was the Spanish language the requirement or just a foreign language? - Just a foreign language, yep. - So Spanish was your own choosing? - Yeah, they had like French, German, I chose Spanish 'cause why not? - And because you did gain some knowledge off of it, sounds like you took those classes series, you tried to learn the language, you tried to give it in on a shot? - Yeah, well, I mean, it's funny because Atlanta International is a private school. So it kind of, I only went to private school for four years, but in those four years of taking Spanish there, I learned way more, 'cause I took French all through elementary school and through high school, but I don't know any French because public school system doesn't really teach you more than like the alphabet and numbers when it comes to foreign languages. So I know a lot more Spanish, even though I actually took it for less time. - And let's speak about that dynamic inside step there for a moment, private school versus public school. There's a debate with that as well. And you know, some kids that have had both, some surprising will choose the other or the rather. Maybe if they're in private school, they'd rather be in public and if they're in public, they'd rather be in private. So I heard some of that as well with this type of debate, but let's say you here, what's your debate on private versus public school? - Yeah, so this is something that I've actually talked about before, they're completely different. Like, so when I left private school, I left private school in ninth grade to go to Shamby High School, a public school. And I actually, I used to play basketball, but I had to quit the basketball team when I went to public school because my grades were like sinking, I was doing terrible at public school. And I noticed the main difference is that in private school, there's much more of an emphasis on kind of like creative thinking, writing papers, being more so like a free thinker almost. Whereas, like I had never taken a scantron test before I went to public high school. So when I got to public school and all the tests are just like filling a bubble, I'm like, my brain just, I guess, wasn't used to that kind of more standardized education. So I actually suffered. So people might think I was like dumber, but like I was, in my opinion, I think it's a lot better to be a free thinker than someone who just can like, you know, check a box really well. But so like I said, I think it's more of a freedom of mind that's taught in the private schools. Public schools just really want you like cog in a wheel and like get a job almost. I feel like. - And before we dive deeper with this subject matter, let's sidestep as well. What was the reason for discontinuing private school? Was that out of your controller, you had the choice? - It was out of my control, but I didn't necessarily fight it. You know, I actually had a scholarship to private school, but it was in a full scholarship. So Shandby charter high school is actually like a pretty good public school, but it's a charter so it's not guaranteed to get in it. So if it was like going to the home school, my parents probably would have kept me there. But since it was like, okay, this is a pretty good school and it doesn't cost money at least, let's get you a bite of there and save some bucks. So it was mainly a financial decision. And you know, thinking back, if you could do it all over, if you had the all the money in the world, you could do it your way. Would you have preferred riding out with private school never even attending a public school? - No, I have no regrets. I like where I graduated from. - And it may not be no regrets, but if you could do it all over again, would you have liked to have both worlds or would you have just rather much rather stayed in private school? - Yeah, I think I would have, like I was ready to get about a private school while I was there. So I probably would have done it the same way. - Now, furthering on with some details about this debate, there are some watching listening to this interview and that have never attended private school and are wondering what that's like versus, you know, those watching this that maybe in private school right now and have never got a chance to see what public school is like. Are you able to give any further comparison, contrast, contraption between both of these two, other than some of the details you've already blurted out already? - Right, I think they're just different, you know, I think you learn to deal with a certain type of people in private school and you learn to deal with a certain type of people in public school and both are beneficial. Like I'm pretty much, I'm a good what they call like code switcher, you know? So I may look corporate setting and stuff like that. I can deal with like rich white people and stuff like that, but also, you know, I'm in hip hop and in rapper. So I can, no matter what part of town or side I'm on, I know how to deal with people. So I think that's the kind of best thing. It's just to be versatile. So if you can get a mix of both, why not? - And how far did you end up getting with your education ultimately? - I'm a college graduate, so I attended a Bard College. It's a small liberal arts college in upstate New York. Got a scholarship there as well via a program called The Posse Program, they basically send, you know, like at risk youth to nice colleges and things of that nature. Not necessarily I was at risk youth, but if we're being honest, it's really just about getting like black and brown people in predominantly white institutions. So they can not appear to be as racist or monoculture. So I kind of got my DEI affirmative action on. - And apologies, I was looking at future notes in this interview. So did you share what your degree was in? - I know, I'm so, I was a filmmaker. I got my degree in film and electronic arts. So I'm one of the few people who actually still does what they went to college for. - Now was a master's degree or a PhD offered in either of those fields? - I could have, but once I did four years of college, I felt like this is kind of a scam to be honest. Let me just go out into the world and try to make money. So I wasn't really interested in pursuing any higher education than that. - And what do you mean by scam? Care to shed some light on that? - It just feels very like not practical. Like colleges are business, they're there to take your money. They do provide some education, if you will, but a lot of the stuff that I learned was through real-world experience. Like yeah, just me getting out in the world, like when I graduated college, I barely even knew how to shoot a decent video. It took me doing all on my own, learning stuff online, and stuff like that to really get solidified in the craft. So I'm confident in what I do now because of the things that I went through in life, not necessarily because of college, but people look at it and it helps. So it helped me get my job. So I'm not mad at it. - And be that as a may with the description you provided, any regret, I'm not furthering your education farther than what you have. - No, no, I don't really see a point. Like I said, just go out into the world. You can learn pretty much everything online now anyway. So yeah, I would recommend that. - Now, did any of your classmates, and when I ask you this question, classmates, this doesn't have to just revert to college, it can be the high school days, the middle school days, elementary, so on and so forth, did any of your classmates end up becoming well known or famous themselves? - Not that I know, the most famous guy, and he wasn't even technically a classmate. So he was my roommate at a house off campus in college, my sophomore through senior year. So one guy who I went to school with, he had a friend who came to live with us. He wasn't in school, but he was in like the Indie Rocks. So my school bar college is like a whole bunch of like Indie Rock bands, it's like a very, they're big in that scene. So he kind of came up and was like, oh, he was from Albany, New York. He was like, you guys have a cool scene there. I'm gonna come and just play my guitar, and we were in college, and he just kind of like got a job at a coffee shop and was just playing local gigs and stuff like that, but he's probably the most famous. His name is like another Michael. He has a band, he's science and record label. I still follow my Instagram. We actually used to make music. I would mind making music with him again at some point, but that's probably the most famous person, and he's not too famous, but he's bigger than anybody else. I know. - And what was he like back then in those days? You already kind of said some details there, but as a person, more so. - Yeah, he was like the super, he was like the nicest guy ever, like literally, just a super genuine, nice dude. I got nothing bad to say about Mike. - And you two did collaborate? Did any of those collaborations ever go public? - They did. I think he, I don't think it's out anymore, but we had a song called Boulder. He made the beat slash instrumentation. I gave a pretty nice verse on it. That was a pretty cool song. But I think he actually made an official version and got rid of my verse on it. So he kind of took me out to song, but it's no hard feelings, I get it. - Now, as far as he's gotten in the music industry himself, as far as he's climbed that ladder of success, does he? Was any of that surprise you considering you saw him in those days on the college side of things? I mean, he wasn't attending your school, but you were, so we'll just say the college days for lack of time. Right. No, it doesn't surprise me, because like I said, he actually wasn't in school, so that's kind of to my point. It's like he was just out doing what he wanted to do, and he kind of made it, not necessarily say farther, but there were a lot of kids who I went to school who were in bands, and like I'm pretty sure none of them are making music, and if they are, they're not as successful. So it's really, I learned that it's really a gift to know what you want to do early in life, and just kind of hone in on that, because things take time. So the earlier you can get started, the better. Anything else you want to mention in regards to your education or question you were asked, just about that subject matter there? No, not really, kind of like I said, I've gotten out of the whole educational realm, kind of entered into the Rapper Room. You know, ask if you had any famous classmates that also reverted also to your basketball days. Did any of the athletes you competed with or against end up becoming famous themselves as well? No, it's tough out there, make it in music or sports. So yeah, I played with a lot of people and none of them made it to the league or anything like that. A couple of people went to college and got scholarships, but that's about it. And for you, it stopped right at the beginning of high school basketball, that was the end of that story. That was my last year playing, yep. So I made the, I was on JV in 10th grade at Shanley High School, but then I just ended up quitting because my parents made it quick, because like I said, my grades were slipping because I didn't know how to take scantron tests. Now did your grades improve after you had quit basketball during the rest of your high school days? They did. They did. So I guess it was worth it. Maybe going back to basketball during those days as well. I thought about it in college because school, I went to that, it was a really small school. And they, you know, they weren't really invested in sports. So I could have, I was talented enough to make that team, but by that point, I was like, I'm not trying to be a basketball player. I'm just trying to make movies and rap. So I just played for fun at that point. Any regret on the loss of the basketball career path for you? No. If anything, I mean, I don't really have regrets, but now that I'm so invested into music, I kind of look at basketball. Like I said, the earlier in life, you can start something to better. Music is like a talent that even if you say you don't get signs to a record label or something, it's just a good talent to have in general, whereas with sports, it's like, if you don't make it to a league, then you're kind of shit out of luck. So like I said, it teaches good things like teamwork and discipline and health and, you know, wellness and stuff, but I'm not, I don't, I don't necessarily miss it. And Kitter, share what position you played with that jersey number back then. Yep. I was a shooting guard. And did you play in any other organizational leagues aside from the school itself? Back then? No. I mean, I played in AAU when I was a kid, like, set like a middle school and stuff like that. Atlanta has, there's a popular team, the Atlanta Celtics. I played for them, but I rode the bench because it was really competitive. So I played a couple of years in AAU, but other than that, not. Was basketball a dream of yours back then? For sure. 100%. Yeah, I used to want to be. My favorite player growing up was Alan Iverson, love Trace McGrady. I used to tell my brother I'm going to go play for the Orlando Magic when I grow up, you know, didn't end up panning out. Was that the dream more so than music was? Yeah. I was always into rap, but I guess, given my background, I kind of always saw rappers is like, my dad even told me. He was like, oh, you got to be from the streets, you know, because my dad, he was from the streets, but he raised us, you know, we were raising a good home in whatever middle class. So rapping, like if I even tried to act quasi gangster or like, you know, street or horror, he was like smack the shit out of me, like, no, you're not doing that. I didn't work this hard for you to act this way. And like I said, I only kind of saw rappers as being that one type of way. You know, I grew up loving like Lil Wayne 50 Cent, but Kanye kind of opened the door in my eyes for artists who wasn't necessarily street, but still while he's successful. So he was a big inspiration in that respect. But like I said, growing up, I was like, okay, I can't be a rapper. So I guess I just played basketball, you know, typical black American shit that they tell us we all need to get out of. And what's your parents reaction to how things turned out because you are doing the rapping thing? I am doing the rapping thing. My dad is actually dead. So he can't really tell me not to, but I feel his presence from beyond. And I know he's proud of me. My mom literally, when I was graduating school, because I was rapping all through college. And that's how I kind of got into it. And I had a couple of friends just like, yo, you're actually really good. Like you should kind of do that. So once I heard other people telling me that, I was like, oh, maybe this is something. That's the first time they hit me like, I can actually maybe do this. So I remember the week I was about to graduate. I called my mom. I was like, all right, mom, I went to college like you wanted me to. I'm going to be a rapper now. And she was like, did you fall and bump your fucking head? Like what are you talking about? She's like, you're not going to be a rapper. But like I said, I'd always been a obedient child. I never really gave too much trouble. So in my eyes, it's like, I've done everything you want to do. I'm a grown-ass man now. I'm going to do what I want to do. So that's what ended up happening. And she actually supports me now. Now, your father passed away at some point in your life. What age were you at that point? I was 21. So kind of great. He actually literally passed away the day I graduated college. I got to call that more because he and my mom have been divorced for a while. So he was a drinker, so that's how he kind of passed. I got to call that morning from the woman that he was seeing. My family knew, but they were trying to keep it-- they weren't trying to tell me because it was my graduation day. They didn't want everyone to date. But I guess the woman he was dating just didn't give a fuck or whatever her mother's was. I don't really know. But she called me and she was like, yeah, you're dead. I know he was talking about coming to that graduation, but he did. Yeah, so I heard that I had to kind of carry that burden all day and keep a smile on for people. So it was kind of wild, but yeah, I was 21. Was there a thought on not going through with the graduation because of that news? No, I-- I mean, to my dad's credit, you know what I'm saying? He raised a man. So we, you know, if we got to do something, we're going to do it, you know what I'm saying? So I never was like, uh, I can't do this. Like, I know he wouldn't want that. He wouldn't be cool with that. He was proud of me going through school. So I just kind of held it and got through the day and it was all good. Now, reverting back to music here, you may have answered this question already, but formally asking you now, and if you feel like you haven't answered it completely, then yes, please provide an answer. And if you feel like you already had mentioned it in the interview, then we'll move on to the next question. You know, when it comes to your origin and music, why or how of all things did you get into music? Um, I touched on it briefly, but I could expound on it. So the school I went to, Barat College, like I grew up watching like, you know, those commercial days that have like, girls going, wow, like, oh, girls flashing their tates everywhere. So my whole idea, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go to college and get laid all the time. It's going to be a break. It was so not that like, like I said, it was like a small, weird hipster liberal art school in the middle of the woods. There was just literally nothing to fucking do, but they had a studio there. So, um, and like I said, I was in the film, so I had camera stuff. So literally, my friends were just bored all the time because there was nothing to do. So it was just smoke and rap and go to the studio. So that's kind of, and then my senior year, we had been gotten so used to it. It's like, all right, I'm going to actually put out a project. So I put out like my first, I actually made my first mixtape for, uh, I took a Photoshop class and we had to make like a final piece or whatever. So I made like my final piece, like my album art or whatever. And then I made the actual music to go along with it and then I presented it to my class. I was like, yeah, guys, this is my mixtape cover. This is my mixtape. I'm going to be a rapper. And they also looked at me like I was fucking insane because it's like, what are you doing? This is like bar liberal arts white kick. Yeah, I don't know. They just, they just didn't get it. But a lot of people don't get what I'm doing, but I'm fine with it. What was the title of that mixtape and did that publicly get released? It was, it was title rabbit hole, um, and it was released on SoundCloud, but I deleted it. So it doesn't exist anymore, which I regret that I deleted a lot of stuff off my SoundCloud because during the whole SoundCloud era, the cloud era as they call it, uh, a lot of my shit didn't have too many plays. So I would only keep the things on my SoundCloud that had like above a thousand plays or stuff like that. So I ended up deleting that stuff. But now I'm like, how was I just had everything ever just because, you know, I made it. So I'm proud of it. And what were you smoking on back then? Um, marijuana. That's all I ever do. Just weed and alcohol. I never really got into like pills or any other harsher drugs. And now I'm actually sober for the moment, but yeah, I go in and out. For the moment, this is temporary. Are you looking for this to be a permanent fixture in your life? That's a tough question, uh, actually. So actually I just dropped a video and a song called "Sober Again." And that's kind of one of the things that I've been battling with. Like I said, my dad wasn't alcoholic. So growing up, I never thought I was going to drink or do drugs, but life happens, so I kind of got into it. But as I get older and it starts to affect my health and stuff, I know I probably need to, for sure at least, cut back if not completely quit. But that's kind of a daunting task to say. So I'm just taking the day by day right now. Care to share any of the health effects you've experienced? Yeah, so I started getting numbness in my leg, my right leg, 'cause I smoke blunts. A lot of people were like, which is funny too, 'cause one of my favorite rappers is currency, and he's all about smoking joints. But I got started smoking on blunts. I love blunts. If I can't smoke a blunt, I rather just not smoke. So if you smoke blunts, you're basically like a cigarette smoke or two, essentially. But yeah, I just started to notice whenever I had a drink or smoke a lot, my legs started feeling numb, my arms, like my right hand, like pins and needles, kind of like. I just felt like my limbs started to become at risk, which I didn't foresee. You know, I thought as long as like, okay, as long as my lungs are good, I'm good. But no, like smoking and drinking, it can fuck up multiple things in your system. So that was a reality check because I'm only 32. I feel like I shouldn't be having like chronic health issues yet, but I am. So that's kind of what got me onto that. - And is this a self-diagnosis here or has a professional tied the connection between the drinking and the smoking with some of these health effects you're describing? - This is a self-diagnosis. I don't, I'm pretty like in tune with my body. I don't really, I actually just went to the doctor and every time I go to the doctor, I'm like, I don't, I feel like I kind of regret it. I feel like they don't really, you know, give me the proper diagnosis, but I also do have a naturopath who I listen to closely, which is like, if you don't know what a naturopath is, they're just not an MD. They kind of, they don't focus on like drugs and pills and stuff that just about lifestyle habits, you know, basic stuff, getting sunlight, exercising, cutting out certain food, sugar, gluten, and all that kind of stuff, deep breathing, all that kind of stuff. So I've been, the more I've been listening to her, I've been noticing the side effects of side. And she let me know, yeah, I mean, smoking, it can, they don't look at it as like, oh, this or that. It's like, if you make poor lifestyle choices, it can play out in a many of ways. So I tend to listen to her more than the actual doctor. - And just asking because I didn't know if maybe there's something that could else be going on and it's not even tied to the drinking or smoking with some of the description you just provided. But when it comes to blunt, she mentioned that and kind of highlighted the phrase, blunts there and you said, might as well be cigarette smoking. And that's because of the, it is a tobacco product with a blunt. - Yeah, it's a tobacco, I mean, it's the same thing. - And that always leads to the question, if one uses tobacco products with cannabis, is one, whoever considers themselves addicted to it, are they addicted to the actual nicotine in the tobacco that they're using the cannabis in or are they actually addicted to the cannabis itself? - I think it's a combination of both. 'Cause like, I never want to smoke a cigarette, but I also don't want to really smoke weed without the blunt. So it's like cereal and milk, man, they just, just like the perfect union. - Have you tried to smoke cannabis without the use of a tobacco product? - For sure, yeah, I've smoked joints, bongs, bowls, all that kind of stuff, but nothing really scratches that itch like a blunt does. - Is it like a higher high, is it a different high? Then when it's just the cannabis itself, like for instance, smoking it through a glass pipe. To be honest, it's less about the high and more so about the smoking experience itself. Like I'm kind of, you're kind of addicted, well, I'll speak for myself. I'm kind of addicted to like the, just the way the blunt burns, like the holes, like I've never been a big pipe or bowl kind of part, like pieces that just not as, you can get high as hell, but the actual experience of smoking, of slow burning blunt is just, you can't really be there. And I also feel like it matches well with alcohol, 'cause I know a lot of people when they get drunk and smoke cigarettes, they will say, oh, I gotta have a cigarette too. So, it's like a holy trinity with me that I'm battling. - And when you say alcohol, are you talking beer, wine, liquor? - All of it. - Now, you also shared your age here, which some recording artists will not do. And before I even ask you this next question, care to share the birthday as well, the month and the day, perhaps. - Yeah, I was born June 21st, 1993. So that makes me a Jim and I cancer cusp. - And asking you just in case there's some misinformation online about you in regards to that. But as mentioned here, why no problem sharing your age on camera, 'cause there are some recording artists that will not. - Yeah, I think that shit is goofy. That's kind of like my whole, like I'm here to bring realness. I'm here to bring authenticity. I'm here to let you know that you shouldn't be ashamed. I know people like to think, oh yeah, rappers are young men. Like I've had so many people tell me, oh, you didn't make it by this 25, you need to hug it. It's like a turning 30 for rappers is kind of similar to like turning 30 for women. You know how like the whole online red pill community likes to be, oh, she's 30, she's, was it? She hit the wall and shit like that and she's just useless at that. Like it's kind of the same thing for rappers. It's like, oh, you're over 30 rapper and you haven't made it yet. Like what the fuck are you doing? So it's very common practice in the industry to lie about your age and things of that nature. But to me, it's like, I just think that shit is goofy. I'm just like, I'm never gonna put myself in a circumstance where I have to like keep a lie going or like high certain aspects of myself. So that's kind of, that's really my whole brand, you know? Just showing you the whole me, the, from the bald head to the me not being, from the people alive out being from the streets, lie about being gangsters. It's like, if I just need to quit fucking lying and if you wanna rap just rap, that's it. - And we'll talk about your transparency a little bit further in this conversation. But before we get to that, a few other details about how you got into music and things of that nature. So, you know, it's, it's one thing for, you know, one to just listen to the music. Like, you know, be a consumer of it, especially someone in their youth. It's another to jump on a mic. Record their voice, listen to the playback of that. Create a song, so on and so forth. What got you over the hump, so to speak, from just being a fan of some recording artists and listening to their music to actually getting behind the mic yourself 'cause some don't get that far. - Right, yeah. I think it's all about, see I've always had good taste. Like I used to, so this kind of goes back to the high school question. When I stopped playing basketball, I really got into, like, partying a lot. So, and I would DJ a lot of parties. So, I was always the guy, like, back when we had off-scores. It was like, oh, hand on the aux. He gonna put on some fire shit. He gonna put on the best. So, I knew I always had good taste in music. So, and like I said, I was in college, rapping, bored. Like, I actually, first time I made a song that I really liked, I cried because it was like, yo, I never knew I could make something that, like, people wanted to listen to, 'cause I was a super music. Like, I love music. Like, I was my whole thing, but like, I never saw myself as an artist. So, when I finally made a song that I'm like, and I trusted my own taste enough to be like, no, okay. If I'm the guy who always knows good sounding stuff, then I can say my stuff sounds good, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm here, I'm using the same ear. So, I just kind of always trusted my taste. - And did that first song that you cried too, did that song go public? - Yeah, that one's actually still on my soundcloud. It's a song called "Off Day." Yep, and I kind of like made my first official tape off of like, bringing a whole bunch of singles that I released and putting them into a project. So, that's still on my soundcloud now, under the project "Holy Trinity." But yeah, "Off Day" was like my first serious single to the world. Okay, guys, I'm not, Nigel anymore. I'm saying, you know. - And why not stick to DJing? Because, ironic that your first big tape was called "Rabbit Hole," but, you know, speaking of "Rabbit Holes," once some of that start DJing, they get into a rabbit hole. That becomes a career path for them. Why the switch to the wrapping side of things and not just stick with the DJing, going down to that rabbit hole instead? - Yeah, I'm a big, I'm like a really intuitive person, and I just follow my heart. So, as much as I love DJing, as much as I love playing basketball, as much as I love even filmmaking, camera work, I love all these things, but like I said, I cried when I made that first song. So, once that was kind of. I kinda like the confirmation of me, it's like, no, this is your calling, this is what you're doing. Who cares if people think you're crazy, who cares if people think it's wack, like I just trusted that intuition. Nothing really resonated with me as deeply as making music did. - And you mentioned the phrase rap during this conversation. Is that the genre of music you consider yourself in? And if not, the subgenre perhaps? - Yeah, you can say rap, it's rap. I feel like a lot of rapper has a lot of baggage on it and people think, oh, I don't wanna, it's like cool for rappers to be like, oh, I'm not a rapper, I'm your favorite street nigga or something like that. But it's like, no, I'm just a rapper. I like being a rapper. - And you shared some recording artists in that genre that may have inspired you or prominent with your rise in your music career and things of that nature. But do you remember how you were introduced to the genre of rap itself? - I mean, I've listened to it my whole life. So when I was literally, when I was five years old for Christmas, I got a stank on you, the OutCast CD. Like I was always asking for CDs. I wanted to get a doggy style by Snoop Dogg. The cover was too much. My mom didn't let me get it. But Hot Boys, Lil Wayne growing up, this is, yeah. So this is like what, 2,098? I'm like five, six years old listening to that. So literally my first memories of music were hip-hop. - So was it already playing in the house? Was it one of your parents or both playing it already? - Well, I had a older brother. He was four years older than me. My parents didn't really listen to hip-hop. They were more like, you know, like funk jazz and things of that nature, but they didn't like, you know, certain parents like will not let it, like I had certain cousins, they're like, oh, you can't listen to hip-hop. They never like blocked it. So like I said, my older brother, he kind of gave me game and like, let me know. This is the cool stuff. So I could go around the younger kids and like, oh, yeah, this is what you all need to be listening to. So. - Now these Christmas gifts of these compact disc back then, were they parental advisory stickers on them or clean versions or? - I think I used to get the clean version. I think it varied. 'Cause I remember sometimes it would be clean, but sometimes it wouldn't be clean. So I think it varied. - Now were your parents hip on that sort of thing back then? 'Cause some parents were not. Some parents were just getting whatever. They didn't know what they were getting. They might not even, they might have looked over the parental advisory and then there were other parents that were super strict, super sticklers on the different versions. - Yeah, I don't think they really gave a fuck too much. They never really tried to like censor too much. So if they did get a clean version, I don't think, it was never like, oh, he got a fine of clean, like, but we might have gotten some clean ones too. - And also side stepping on the topic of siblings, how many did you end up having in total? - Just one, my older brother. - And same mother and father sounds like for both of you. - Yes, yes. - And what was that like being the youngest on the ladder there between you two? - It got my ass kicked a lot, but it made me the man I am today. It's kind of crazy. I thought older siblings just constantly beat up their younger siblings, but I've known other people, and that's not the case. And some younger siblings, when they get beat up, it's usually in the early stages of life. And then it becomes a very loving relationship with that sibling. And then some, I mean, they're still fighting to this date, maybe not physically, but verbally. Things of that nature. Is it cordial between you two at this point? Is it more of a loving relationship between you two or is there some sort of fighting going on? - No, even when we did fight, it was just more like, he just like watched some shit on wrestling, and then he tried out on me. Like it was never like that, like a deep hatred or anything, I love my brother. So we're cool. - And what did you learn or take away from that position being the youngest on the ladder amongst the siblings there? - I think it just made me a leader, given that it's like I was stifled in one area, you know, I always got the second, you know? Oh, he gets the serial first. He gets to play the video games first. He gets to always do. So kind of being deprived and kind of belittled, I guess, in that way kind of gave me the hunger. Like, okay, when I go out into the world, I'ma be the man now. I'm the big brother. You know what I'm saying? 'Cause I'm not gonna take this shit twice pretty much. So like I said, that's why I say kind of, maybe the man I am today. - And additionally was, rap the first genre of music you encountered in your life. I know you mentioned like, funk and some other things that your parents played, but was rap the first genre you encountered of music? And if not, what was before it? - Yeah, rap was the first thing I encountered. Like I said, my brother, he pretty much just put me on to all the cool hip-hop stuff. So. - Any other memories of those humble beginnings in music for you? You'll wanna share with the audience today. - I made my first song, well, it wasn't my song. It was actually my brother's song when I was like, seven years old, 'cause the way our neighborhood was, so my brother's four years older than me, but then the kids in the neighborhood were like four years older than him. So I'm hanging out with kids like, eight years older than me and stuff like that. So one of his friends had a studio and they started like a little neighborhood rap group and this is like, early 2000s when the whole like, dip set, like high-pitched vocals on the hook and stuff. We did my boy, like oh boy and shit like that. So I had a little kid boy. So what they basically did was like they made a hook and told me to go into the booth and sing that hook. So that was like my first experience song making, yeah. - So your brother did music as well? - Yeah, I feel like everybody in Atlanta raps though. Just kind of just for fun. Maybe not take it as seriously as I do, but everybody got in raps. - Because you mentioned he was into it, didn't know he was into it at the point where he was creating music himself and recording as well. But is he still active on the music side of things? - He's on a hiatus. Let's say that 'cause he's put out some stuff, but yeah right now he's on a hiatus right now. But don't be surprised if you see a hero having back on the scene. He actually was best friends with B.O.B growing up, which was kind of crazy to see. Like, you know, somebody who's just like at your house, hanging with your brother. Next thing you know, they were like on national TV. Like it was wild. And I think kind of that also kind of inspired me in a way to just see some, like it's possible. You've seen people you know, which is regular people. Next thing you know, they're a huge artist. So I think that kind of like unlocked that for me mentally, whether I was aware of it or not. - So you saw B.O.B's rise firsthand? - I'm not gonna say I saw his rise, but it was the kind of thing where it's like, 'cause it was really crazy. It was kind of like almost overnight. It's like, he went to my, him and my brother were best friends in like elementary school. And then I think they went to like different middle schools where they kind of lost contact where we're still cool. And then next thing you know, it's like, what the fuck he's on TV? And they kind of, they're still cool, I guess, to this day. Like they still talking to stuff like that. So, but it's not like I was like watching the whole thing, but we definitely knew him and like, yeah, it was crazy. He was actually performing in a club one time when I was in Atlanta, a team club. And I like ran up to the stage, I was like, yeah, that's me. And he was like, I thought I saw a hero down there. That's my older brother's name is Harold. So he like, dapped me up in the middle of the club, which is cool, get me a little clout in the team club. But yeah. - So does his success and how far he's gotten, surprised you at all? - It did when it happened, 'cause it was just like, what the fuck, I never imagined it. But now really nothing surprises me, you know? 'Cause it's kind of removed all those chains of limitation. Like I said, I think anybody can do anything if you're just true to yourself and give it to your all. So, but back then it was crazy to see him on TV, yeah, for sure. - And it sounds like a supportive atmosphere musically between you and your brother back in those days. - Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it's a long journey. So, you know, people, they may have, at some point said, you know, like, people care about me. So they're like, what the fuck? You don't wanna waste your life rapping and shit. Like, just, you've been doing this all these years. Like, nothing's going on. So, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it and be like, all my family and everybody, all my friends were just supportive the whole time. I was rapping, no. But it was always from a place of love. And now that, like I said, I've just been doing it so long. And I am making progress and stuff like that. They actually, actually respect me for it and me sticking to my guns and just doing what I wanna do. - And I probably should have been a little bit more specific with my question 'cause you took it a different way. - Okay. - But supportive meaning like, you know, sometimes siblings when they do music together, it can be either competitive between each other or supportive, meaning like collaborative, you know, they're helping each other out type of thing. Some it's competitive or you, hey, you do your own thing. I'll do my own thing. Whoever rises to the top, you know, see at the top sort of thing. - Yeah, no, 'cause he never really took it as, like he can rap, my brother can rap, but he never really took it as seriously as I did. So it was never like a competition 'cause I actually put out his first song. Like I had a, we were both living in my mom's house and he was just like, hey, I had the studio set up 'cause I was taking a serious, you know, and I was like, he was just like, But he was just like, hey, high and freestyle, you know, like everybody else. So I just had a microphone and shit like that. And I recorded it and he ended up putting out a song on SoundCloud two a couple of years ago. So would you continue to collaborate with him while you were growing up or was that, you know, the main collaboration, the sample of your voice on that song? Yeah, that was the main one. Like I said, other than that, he never really cut a record other than the song that I recorded for him. Oh, he never cut another record after that. Yeah. Yeah, he, he was, my brother's like, super, I'm like the creative one. He's like the money one. So he was like, I got to get to this money, man. So I'll let you go be a starving artist or whatever the fuck. Well, what about these days? Are you a writer or a freestyling punching in type of recording artist? These days, I'm a punching in artist. I started off writing then I kind of got to a space where I was like half, I was like writing to get the ball rolling. And then once I started recording and I got into the flow, I would do punchins. But it was a thing where it's like, I'll play songs for people and they'll be like, Oh, I fuck with this part and they would always talk with the part where I started punching again. And so I was like, all right, well, let me just cut out the middle man. Let me just feel it. So now I'm like all about the vibe when I go into the studio. I just literally the first thing that comes in my mind, I just punch in and go from there. But more specifically, what led you to punch in? Were you inspired to do that by any chance or was that just natural experimentation for you back then? It was natural experimentation because I write really fast anyway. So like, I just, the process is like, I go to YouTube, find a beat, start writing. And then maybe just like, I'll have some extra bars left on the song. So since I'm already in it, I just maybe just started punching in and stuff like that. So like I said, and then people started to note like, Oh, yeah, we liked this part of the song more. I'm going to ask the end of the song. I was just, I just like, there was still some beat left and I didn't have any more wraps written, you know? So that's kind of how I came about. Now also in regards to your music career, you mentioned previously you're all about transparency. And that is found on your social media as well. One of them primarily happens to be your YouTube channel. Now for those in the audience that saw a previous segment in regards to this interview, but, excuse me, that didn't see a previous segment where you shared your YouTube channel name and things that I need you to share that channel name once again, because I'm using that as a reference for what we're going to discuss here next. Yeah, you can find me at Saint Uno, H.E.L. on YouTube. Now when it comes to this transparency on your YouTube channel, you've shared the ups and the downs of what you've experienced so far. And for transparency to the audience, I have not fact checked any of your YouTube channels content in regards to the titles and thumbnails that you posted, which are your claims and allegations, just reading them here for context. So let's start with the ups on some of the things you've showcased after, you know, researching your YouTube and starting with, uh, your first music video, uh, eight years ago titled Saint Uno, lawyer, or lawyer is the name of the title of the song there. So that's what you, your first piece of content you posted on your YouTube channel eight years ago, unless, you know, sometimes people do post and then they'll, uh, private something. So didn't know if you had private it, some things before that video, but publicly eight years ago, that was your first piece of content ever on that channel, it happens to be the first music video. Do I stand corrected there? Had you released music videos prior to that? I had one music video prior, but it was on another YouTube channel. Uh, I think the name of the channel was just, I don't even remember what it was. It might have just been Saint Uno, but I was for branding purposes. I wanted everything to be the same across all platforms. So that's when I made the Saint Uno ATL channel because I think Saint Uno was maybe available on YouTube, but like not on Instagram or something. So I'll say, all right, let me make another page. So yeah, that's the first one I'm there. But I think the year before that, that song off day that I was telling you about, that was my first music video, which I think if you actually searched Saint Uno off day on YouTube, it'll come up, but it just won't be on that channel. Okay. A couple of other ups here that you posted. All right. Quote. Saint Uno vlog three. I sold my first feature exclamation point and some emojis. Another up you posted, quote, sign my first record deal for $8,000. And a couple of emojis there. Another up for you, quote, sold my first piece of merch, rocket ship emoji there. And then another up you posted, the last up that we researched was, quote, my first YouTube check after eight years. How much question mark exclamation point? And quoting these here, so those in the audience that want to, you know, watch any of these videos, they can go back and reference that, but you posted way more downs with this transparency. That's life. So want to go over a few of those, now you've posted videos and you posted shorts. Let's start with the videos first, taking it all the way back. And this is through your eight year history on YouTube, quote, Atlantic records using bots, quote, being an entrepreneur is trash, quote, holly weird, quote, hollywood rituals, quote, why you to band me, quote, labels don't want rappers, quote, wrapping past 30 is dumb, Charleston White say cheese reaction, quote, eight and Ross, 21 savage scam is staged, quote, four bats is an AI industry plant, second wave of COVID 18, quote, famous dex finesse me for $850, story time, quote, I spent five K on YouTube ads, here's what happened. And in that thumbnail, you show you yourself holding a thumbs down with this caption, quote, YouTube bats are fake, negative $5,000, another video you posted here, quote, rapper exposes music industry contract. And the last video here of note is quote, viral rapper performs for empty crap. Not done here. Let's go to the short side, a couple of videos there. I want to share with the audience, quote, hip hop is going down, quote, feds playing dirty on YouTube and at the bank, quote, did I waste money on billboard? That's a shame, Mark, another one here, this title is just a heartbreak emoji. But in the thumbnail, it reads quote, rapper reveals how much money he made from six years of streams and investing $30,000. Another bit, another short here, quote, viral does not equal money. And last short here, quote, the first rapper to spend thousands on videos that get less than 100 views. Okay, now, what is going to ask you why you posted more downs than ups in this eight year period? But it sounds like you've answered that already and you describe that's life, paraphrasing you there. Yeah. I mean, at least that's my life. I'd love to hear somebody who's had more good days than bad, but I feel like a lot of people, it's especially, like I said, when you're an entrepreneur or you're doing something independently, or you don't have anybody to quote, unquote, put you on, it's tough doing it on your own volition. Okay, now, let's get down to the specifics here. All right. So in one short, you posted a heartbreak emoji, but the caption in the thumbnail reads, rapper reveals how much money he made from six years of streams and investing $30,000. Okay. Let's start with the number six. Your YouTube channel showcasing said first video was eight years old, but you posted a music video on a different channel, maybe a year prior to that. So let's say nine years old. So, okay, you've been doing this for nine years. You posted way more downs than ups and some of these downs would scare the living daylights out of a upcoming recording artist, especially six years of streams and investing $30,000. And you reveal how much money you made and care to share what that money you made there was. $199.37. Okay. So, why are you still doing this? Because it's what I love to do. If you remember earlier in the interview, basically asking why I do rap, it's because I'm a very intuitive person, I follow my heart. I made a rap song, it brought me to tears, and I've been married to it ever since. So it's actually kind of interesting for me, because when I'm posting these things, I don't, like I'm not a money doesn't move me, like I guess it moves everybody else. Like I'm really in it because it's what I want to do. So even when that clip went viral, I wasn't like trying to clickbait or like I just share in my journey, but it's like people spend money on dumb shit, like Gucci vacations to places, just to sightseeing and post pictures, like people pay for pussy, like people who cares what you spend your money on is the way I just rather spend my money on my passion, which [BLANK_AUDIO] making music. So I don't really see it as you could say it's bad business and something like that, but you know how many fucking businesses did Trump run into the ground before he became, even though he was kind of born into being successful. But it's like I just I'm just doing what I want to do. I don't really look at it. I think that's the problem actually with rap music. It's a lot of people get into it as like oh okay this is going to get me out the hood or this is going to make me rich. So now all we're talking about is like how financial like we've equated financial with says to good artistry and those are two completely different things. I'm artists and I love making art and I'm going to do that but I also invest in myself because I want people to hear the music. So long story short I just follow my heart man. And to your defense there could be a you know perspective saying you know not I mean you mentioned you're 32 years old right and maybe you know with these stats that you posted you may be unsuccessful or have not garnered the success you so envisioned but who's to say you won't reach that at 35 or 40 or 45 or 50 because let's take the music business out of it in the music I mean in the movie industry there's some actors that pop at a later age then some of their younger peers. So one could you know in your defense they keep going because you never know what year you could pop what age you could pop everyone with the barrier to entry as easy as it is at this point is one song away from a hit theoretically speaking but you know on the opposite end of the spectrum one could easily say especially from the perspective I mean you said hey I feel like someone wearing Gucci or spending money on Gucci's dumb that same person wearing said Gucci outfit could be like hey you know spending 30,000 and six years and seeing $199 that's dumb right so just you know curious on what your take on all this was because a different perspective it can look right in different different visions there but one thing to note here is during your career it seemed like and you can correct me if I'm wrong it seemed like you were very sincere with your music career so for example like you know if one were to go on to your YouTube channel and start eight years ago and look at your journey and see the music videos you were posting and the way you were titling things and so on and so on and so on and so forth it seemed very like you were not green that's not the right word not vulnerable that's not the right word but it just sounds like you were like gung ho you know for lack of a better phrase you were you know exploring the industry or getting into it hey this is me you guys and then as the years progressed it started to take a very sarcastic tone with the titles the videos you've been posting so on and so forth to the point that if one were to get into your career now versus eight years ago and didn't see the context they would think you could be cost you could be possibly cosplaying a rapper right now what should take on that very keen observation you're 100% right what I would say is through that eight years of me being in the music that's eight years of me putting out content and in eight years of putting out content that's eight years of me essentially doing research on stuff that performs well and stuff that doesn't perform well and in that research I started to learn that nothing rarely goes viral if it's positive we can look at young thug right now he's the most viral thing in the world why snitching pillow talking you know like usually stuff that gets a lot of attention is bad you can even look at the news bad news is on the news every night you know they're not reporting good news so from an artist perspective when you're starting out it's like oh yeah I'm one people to see my best side I want to put my best foot forward and stuff like that but I put out so many videos of trying to be the coolest artist or trying to be the most together person and nobody gave a fuck then one day it kind of clicked it's like I'm going to let decide my head grow out put on some glasses dress like a quote unquote square and then post a song with completely raw and unmixed vocals and that went viral on TikTok viral for me it was like 160 000 views before that I never got anything close and then when I did that it clicked it's like oh okay I just have to and as a slippery slope because I am to an extent making fun of myself and being a parody but at the same time too I take my art extremely seriously so it's just figuring out how to navigate the game you know how to get into the algorithm because whether you want to admit it or not every rapper is the content creator so from a rapper standpoint I might want to be cool I might want to you know be taken seriously and stuff like that but in terms of getting my art in front of people's faces I got to make viral content and nine times out of 10 that looks like making an ass of myself to be quite frank so once I kind of separated the feelings from the business side and I became my own executive it's like okay yeah I know you you care about your art you want to be taken seriously out of yada yada but this is the shit that gets clicks so now I'm in a space of really just navigating both of those worlds and uh what's your definition of viral well like I said it it varies um I actually looked up the literal definition of viral I think they consider it anywhere between one million plus views one million to five million but you gotta think about me as a bedroom rapper putting out songs that will get 20 views for eight years for me to get 160 thousand views fuck that I'm viral so you know in the grand scheme of things that's not shit but for me out for by my standards I would say anything over a hundred thousand views is viral every any comments engagement too anything with like 500 comments is that's viral by my book but the more I progress in my career and the bigger my numbers growth and that will change now you mentioned based on your uh own research and experience uh negativity wins over positivity but what about virality at this point what do you make of that because you know case and point uh when you were putting out music initially eight years ago on your you on this youtube channel uh we'll use that as a current example for schematics here um you know it was genuine music you know your titles were very genuine they were open again I don't know what the right word would be there but you were very vulnerable and uh putting yourself out there and things that nature and innocent whatever the you know that's where we're going with that but now uh you know it's a more sarcastic feel it's a parody feel cause you're not cosplaying but it could be looked like at that from someone new just you know coming into your uh your uh your journey here um so it sounds like you know you honed on to the you honed in on the negative outweighing the positive and maybe the viral was where you wanted to go or needed to go to maybe uh get them the the ball rolling on the money side and and things of that nature and now that you have got a taste of virality what do you make of that because uh you know you posted a video or short i should say to be specific quote viral does not equal money right and even in that video i'm kind of making fun of myself and how i'm not selling any merch and not making any money um so yeah like again to bring up young thug because i just watched his interview last night i thought it was a great interview but he had a he started off the interview by saying the game that i'm in music hip hop all the tension is good attention and i again based on the eight years of putting out content came to a similar uh realization because even when i did go viral and and ninety percent of people were making fun of me and saying i should quit and saying i also got more inboxes more follows than ever saying hey i see what you're doing keep on doing it don't give up so it's like uh ten percent of a million is way better than a hundred percent of ten you know like those ten people when i was not cosplaying or if you will um they might have respected the art and and it was all good but i was only reaching ten people i'd rather cast a much wider net ninety people will write it off as bullshit nonsense and that's fine because i know at the end of the day no matter how it seems um i take my art very seriously and people who have the ear to really appreciate it they'll they'll pick up on it and they'll stick around for the long run so it's like i got to play the short game by kind of acting to ask, but that's just a flash in the pan. What's going to keep people here for the longevity is the authentic side. So it's not like I've completely got rid of everything that I was representing in the beginning, I've just learned how to do it in a more balanced manner. - And what is the feedback you've been getting more specifically? So if there was a 100% pie chart, circle chart, what would you say the feedback to this latest you, the sarcastic parody thing, all that sort of jazz there, and you going viral? What's been the feedback, negative feedback versus positive feedback? Where would you percentile that? - I would, the best, literal hard numbers I can give you is when I most recently went viral, Stachese posted that clip about me spending $30,000 and only making $199, and they posted a poll. And it said, should he quit? 80% of the people said I should quit. 20% of the people said I should keep going. So I mean, that's those are hard numbers. And like I said, that post got over 1.2 million views, but how many people and about 16,000 people actually took the poll. So that's roughly 12,000 people telling me I should quit rapping, but also 4,000 people knew who are telling me that I should keep going and could potentially become fans in that nature. So that's, even though that's a lot of bad, that's way more good, 4,000 people upvoting than anything else I've been posting previously, you know? - So regardless of the 80% in that poll, regardless of the 30,000 invested and only receiving $199 and some change. - And that 30,000, that's a real figure that's not exaggeration there? - That's actually a little on the low end. That's just me kind of, but when I really thought about it, I was like, it's really closer to 40, maybe even 50,000, but it just goes to show you how like phone either, like no one did any fact checking. I could have just went up there and lied and made those numbers up and gone viral too, which was kind of eye opening to me. So that's pretty game to anybody. And it rappers out there, you can just make up the craziest story, it doesn't have to be true, but in my case, it actually was true. And like I said, if anything, it was a little on the light side. - Well, that's part of this interview is fact checking. And you know, sometimes fact checking naturally happens in the sense of, okay, if someone just had a crazy title about whatever, you know, childhood friends, school classmates, frenemies, they'll come out in those comments sections and say, man, this is not really what's going on and so on and so forth. - Right. And I think I kind of checked out though, 'cause when you go to my channel, you see like, like I did a collab reel with no jumper, you know, you see me purchasing billboards, you go to my YouTube, you see 5,000 spin on ads. And if you watch those videos, I'm showing me meeting with the actual ad agency. So it's like, the story checks out and that might have gave it some more legitimacy, whether I just posted it and it's just like me in my room and that's all you ever saw, you know? Now, could this transparency scare some people from working or collaborating with you? Because, you know, like you'll go to a record label meeting and show parts of that, you'll go to no jumper, like you just referenced and show parts of that and, you know, you'll go to this and show, so could that transparency scare some people from working with you too, you know? Maybe they feel like, hey, you put this on blaster. 100%, like I highly doubt. Actually, I know for a fact, when I went into the Atlantic Records Office, they didn't think I would do what I did with that content. So I get that that can scare a lot of people away, but it also garn, everybody has a price, you know? So it's like, yeah, people may be weary of that, but if what I'm doing is working and I continue to work that program, eventually people won't give a fuck about that. It's a long story short, you know? Because it's like, you know, everybody just wants eyeballs, everybody just wants an audience. - So as much downs than ups that you posted in eight years of YouTube channel content, investing nearly $50,000 and only seeing $199, and also that number could be, you know, 'cause you sold your first merch and then you said, so the feature, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if there's a little bit of, you know, some numbers that weren't technically correct on the investing side, there could be some numbers that are a little off on the profiting side or, you know, the gain in that, I guess you would say. But and even with the 80% telling you no, you're still going to continue on with this journey. - 100%. - Very well. Now, speaking of sarcasm here, this GoFundMe hairline. Is that also just sarcasm for you? Is that a joke there for you as well? Or you serious about that? - Yeah, I wanted people to donate, but I didn't really expect anybody to donate. - Has anybody donated yet hasn't this interview? - No, no one's donated. And even if it did make it $30,000, my plan was, I wouldn't spend it on a hairline because this is pretty much my brand at this point. But yeah, that was more so just addressing all, I like to transmute things. You know, I like to take a negative and make it to a positive. So one of the biggest criticisms that got when I did go viral was, yo, man, that hairline, like why would I listen to anybody with the hairline like I did that? So I just took that as an opportunity to make some content out of that. And again, like I said, 80% of the people thought that was stupid, but I got some inboxes again. Yo, I think that's so funny that you did that. I think that's, you handled that the perfect way. So I'm attracting my tribe. - And, you know, you might not have posted every up. You might not have posted every down on this YouTube channel. But what, you know, just thinking back up into this point as of this interview, what are you the most proud of? What's the one thing you're the most proud of with your career at this point? After eight plus years, nine years, nearly 10 years, 50,000 into it, so on and so forth, what's the one thing? - The one thing that I'm most proud of? - Whether it was posted on social media or not, yes. - I would say it was going to the Atlantic Records office. I was glad and never thought of, and I don't even necessarily plan on signing a record deal, but just the fact that I could get those people interested in me is like, I never, I never really, you know, you say these things like, oh, I believe I can make it, but you never really, until it happens, it's just kind of, it's just like talk, you know? So even though I didn't end up taking the deal or maybe don't even ever plan on it, just the fact that I could register enough on my own, making music in my bedroom to get a multi-probably billion dollar company to acknowledge what I'm doing, I'd be doing something, right? - And that was authentic. - Yes. - Because there are some up and coming recording artists that are getting these record label email scams saying, so and so from a major label wants to hear more of your stuff, they send us this and this and this. - And that's what I thought it was. Like I've gotten a ton of that, like, I ignored the message specifically before that reason. I'm like, I'm, you know, everybody thinks artists are so vulnerable and they're just easy licks and you can just send them whatever. So yeah, that's why I posted on that, on that real, the actual phone, like when the phone call came through it said a, it said Warner music group on my phone. And I was like, what the fuck? This is the actual one. And I'm in the, so like, that was a real thing that happened, but I thought it was fake too at first. - So how were you able to decipher that? It was a real thing and not a scam, like a scammy email or fraudulent email. Was it just because of that phone number and it's showing up as so or? - Yeah, the phone number. And once I talked to the individual on the end, he further validated it, but like I said, initially they reached out via Instagram inbox and I was like, I just let it sit for a week, but then eventually I was like, all right, why not? I answered it back, gave him my phone number. And then once I saw where the phone call was coming from, and then even then I was still a little scared. You know what I said, I set up a meeting to go to New York and I thought even then I was like, oh man, this could be a scam, but I went to the actual office building. They had to buzz me up. So literally until I was in the office, I was thinking this could be a scam. This could be a scam. This could be a scam, you know? - And on the flip side, what are you most proud of? What are you most disappointed with? Out of all the experiences you've gone through through this music journey, what's the most disappointing, one thing you're really disappointed about, whether you posted it on socials or not? - Yeah, I kind of mentioned that earlier, like a lot of my older sound cloud music, I deleted, and you've pointed it out throughout this interview, my whole, I didn't realize what my brand was while you're doing it, 'cause it's just all so new, but you've kind of pointed it out that it's like this authenticity, this transparency. this vulnerability, I think had I just kept everything up, even the oldest, the shittiest of stuff up on my SoundCloud. That would be even more of a testament, right? So people could say, "Oh, no, 'cause I've been doing it." Like you said, longer than the eight years on this YouTube channel, I was doing it longer than the 2019 streaming revenue. I went from pre-SoundCloud rappers to the SoundCloud era to streaming era. So to really have all those receipts, I wouldn't say it's like a regret, but that's something that I'm often like, "Damn, I wish I had all of that stuff." All right, so what do you want the audience here to take away from your musical journey at this point, all in all with everything being said? I believe this is my last question. Do I do have one more that just came to mind? But yeah, for all intents and purposes on this topic, what do you want the audience to leave from this interview here with? About you. Yeah, I want them to. I want them to be the living example of the cliche, you know, "Never give up." Because people kind of live in this false reality. Well, they'll say, "You'll give you some advice." "Oh, don't listen to people. Follow your heart. Stick to your guns. Never give up." But when they see an actual person doing it, or when it comes time for them to do it, then they shit their pants and they think, "Oh, this is the stupidest thing ever. I would never do that." You know, I'll die if I actually follow my dreams. I'm here to show you visually. Hey, I'm still alive. I'm still here. I have a roof over my head. I was homeless at a point, but I'm not anymore. And I'm growing daily. And it's because I simply just did not give up and listened to that very loud volumeist 80% of naysayers and just honed in with the people that truly supported me. And ultimately just listened to my own heart. And the homelessness, how long did that last four? About a year. I would say about a year. It's kind of the car. Because you know, homelessness is like, you're standing in and out of places. So it's like, they have a term for it. It's like, I forgot the term. It's, you know, like housing challenge or something like that. But roughly a year. Yeah, there's various levels to homelessness. There's obviously the worst level or bottom level is, you know, living on a park bench. Yeah, I was never in the street. I was living in my car. That was like the worst. And then sometimes I would like to live in a studio, crash on a friend's house. So that whole little phase of not having like a place where I pay rent essentially lasted about a year. And the additional question that came to mind here was this. The patches of hair on your cheeks. Is this purposefully done? Or is this all you can grow for a quote unquote beard? It's all I can grow for a beard. I could cut them off. But I saw a meme one time that stuck with me. It was like every artist needs to have the Halloween effect. Which is basically kids need to be able to dress up as you as Halloween and be recognizable. So that's when this whole image came about with the lead in the hair grow throwing up. Like I don't actually need glasses. They're just a part of this whole image that I'm portraying. And then, you know, it's just about standing out as much as possible. And I can't grow a beard. I always wanted to grow a beard. But I could grow these little patches. And I was like, you don't really see too many people with little patches on their face. So I'll add that into the Halloween effect as well. So you're not shaving around it purposefully. That's literally all you can grow. Yeah, but I mean, I like, there'll be a little, I'll save around it because little stuff here and there will come in, but it's never a full beard. So yeah, it's like, I'm just kind of fine-tuning these little patches. Is there a name for them, aside from patches that you call them? No, we should probably get a name. They're st. patches. That's what they're called. So these glasses, they're non-prescription. They have no prescription. They're just glass. All right, well, is there anything else you want to add or subtract to this interview? Is there anything you want to clarify from what you said? Maybe retract from what you said during this interview. Like you said, I'm all about transparency and vulnerability authenticity all the way down to the wipe in the bald head off with the napkin. So you can keep it all in there. And I want to thank you for allowing me on the platform. It was a really great opportunity. I've seen lots of artists be in this position to be one of the artists myself. It's awesome. So yeah, that's pretty much it on my end. Thank you very much. Thank you.