Sacrifice Today Means Peace Tomorrow

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell. My co-host today is Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Sam kicks us off down the road in Nashville. What's going on, Sam? Hey, how you guys doing? Thanks for having me. Doing great. What's going on? So basically, I owe approximately around $45,000 across all my debts. And I was just trying to get some advice about how to pay them off faster. My actual job. I'm a police officer in Nashville, Tennessee. My actual job, I make about $98,500 a year. And I also get about $50,000 a year from the military compensation, VA disability. So I total about $150,000 a year. Awesome. So basically, after going through a tough child custody case, I had to get some credit cards to get a lawyer. And that kind of really put me in debt. That was the main reason. So. I owe about $23,500 across three Capital One cars. More $4,500 on a Navy Federal car note. $1,000 on a military star card. $13,000 to the IRS. $6,000 on a personal loan. And I have a. I don't know if you guys know this. I think a firm. Yeah. I took out some like. Buy now, pay later. Yeah. Yeah. Which I should have never done that. I took out some loans there. How much? It was total $3,300. Okay. And I have $7,000 in student loans. That's getting forgiven through the VA. Where's the money from the child custody? Is that the Capital One cards? The money from the child custody? Yes, from the Capital One cards. Most of it from the Capital One. Okay. And that's the cars with the highest interest. And that's what's really, really killing me. And my thing is I love to travel. That's literally like what's keeping me sane right now. And I don't know how to manage traveling with, you know, paying off all these debts. And I kind of have a feeling I know what you guys are going to say, but. What are we going to say? What do you think we're going to say? That you can't travel right now? You have to put traveling on the pause. I mean, that would make sense, wouldn't it? You get to travel and just be to and from work. So that's still, you know, make that an adventure. And by the way, you don't have $45,000 of debt. You have more like $57,000 or $58,000 of debt is what I calculated on my end. Is it just going through what you said, right? Yes. I mean, that sounds about right. I mean, I don't know if you include the house mortgage in it or not. I didn't. I just said I did $23,000 for Capital One. $4,500 for the car, $1,000 for Star Credit, the Star Card. $13,000 to the IRS or $1,300? $13,200. Okay, there you go. And I rounded down. $6,000 personal loan, $3,300 buy now, pay later, and $7,000 in student loans. So we're getting upwards to $60,000 is just what I want to put out there, which feels a lot different than $45,000, you know. And when we're talking about traveling, gosh, now we know for sure, to George's point, you're just going to work. That is the trip. How old are you, Sam? I'm 35. Wow. All right, you're a young man. You've lived some life, but you're a young man. So, you know, by the time you're 36, you could have this paid off if you got serious, and then we can start making some great travel plans with all this freed up margin. How does that sound? That sounds lovely. I would love that, seriously. Okay. So are you doing any investing right now? Through my job, I don't know if you guys know, well, I don't know if it's really investing. I don't know much about investing, but I pay, there's this thing called Voya, and I contribute about $250 every paycheck, so $500 a month on it. And right now, I've only got about $15,000 in that account. Well, here's the thing. Look what you just uncovered. Six grand that could be going towards your debt over the next 12 months. That's pretty cool. So right there, we found some margin. Now, how much is that? How much do you actually take home every month? After tax, I take home approximately around $10,170. Good. Now, if you've got real serious, could you live off five grand? I think I could if I got real serious, yes, sir. What's your rent? I just need that five. Because what's your rent? My rent is $25.61 a month, and then the HOA is $250 a month. Okay, and did you get custody? No, she has mostly, I don't have custody, I have like 40%, and she has like 60%. I guess my point is, most of the time, it's just you. You've got a reasonable rent, to George's point. Why can't we live on $5,000? Honestly, that's a great question. I think the traveling has a lot to do with it. Where are you going? Where have you been going, and what have you been spending? I made a promise to myself every year, that I would travel outside of the country at least twice a year, because I don't want to wait until I'm old to travel. I want to do it while I'm young. Okay, here's what I think, Sam. I actually really love the traveling piece of this, because I think that that's the leverage point for you. That's the thing that you can really kind of hang your motivation on for this, because it's almost like with a kid, if you want to discipline them, you have to find the thing that's closest to their heart and say, well, if you don't act right, I'm taking away the Xbox. For you, it's travel. And so if we can, if we can say, hey, I don't get to travel the thing that I love the most until I clean up my mess as an adult and become financially responsible, that should be the kick in the pants you need to be like, I got to move fast because I got to take my trip to Italy. Do you see what I'm saying? So if you can reframe that in your mind to say, this thing I love doing is sitting right there in front of me, but I cannot do it until I become financially responsible, don't you think that that could serve as a great motivator for you? Oh, no, you're absolutely right. I think it's very reasonable. And you served our country, so you know discipline better than most people. Oh, yeah. And so you've got to fight the inner toddler inside of you who's saying, I want gummy bears before dinner, because you know, if I eat gummy bears before dinner, I'm not eating the chicken and broccoli on that plate. Yes, sir, you're right. And so you dangle that. Now I'm excited to eat the chicken and broccoli because I see what's on the other side. So that's what's going to be in your future. And the good news is I have so much hope for your situation because of your fantastic income. What I just showed you was you're bringing home 10-1. It's about to be 10-6 because you're going to stop. You're going to stop investing currently. Now you can live off $5,000 and throw $5,600 a month at your debt. Think about what that would do. You're done in less than a year. Yes, sir. How do I go about doing that? List them smallest to largest. So what we teach is a debt snowball method where you're listing all of the balances by balance, smallest to largest, not by payment, not by interest rate. So in your case, the smallest one, if I look over here, looks like this star card that you were talking about. It's a $4,000. So there's no reason that, let's see, we're in October now. Coming November, because November you will have created your budget. You will have found the $5,600 margin that George is talking about. So you'll take $1,000. You'll put it to the star card. You'll put another $6,000 or very close. Oh, I'm sorry. Buy now, pay later is next. $3,300. So you'll pay off all of buy now, pay later. That's gone. And you'll start to make a dent on these personal loans. And so if you do that, you're going to be out to George's point in a year. And if I were you, not only would that be my home, but I would also sit down and plan my next trip in detail, hang it on the board, do the old vision board thing. Print out pictures. And let that be. Old school. Yeah. Let that be your guiding light. Put it right in front of your bed. It's the first thing you see when you wake up in the morning. Hang on the line, Sam. I'm going to send you every dollar. This is going to put it in reality. Lay out the debt snowball, lay out the income, lay out the expenses. We're rooting for you, man. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. When you get married or have kids, your money decisions aren't just about you anymore. And that's why Winston and I have term life insurance through Zander Insurance. Because when you love your family, you make a plan to protect them. None of us likes to think about if something were to happen to us. But your income helps keep the lights on, pay the mortgage, and put food on the table. And having the right life insurance means. When you pass away, your family will not be dealing with financial stress during one of the hardest times of their lives. At Ramsey, we recommend term life protection that's 10 to 12 times your income with a 15 to 20-year term. And Zander makes it easy to help you find the coverage that you need. Zander is an independent broker who works for you, shopping the top companies to find the most competitive prices on the coverage you need. You can get an instant quote online. in just minutes. So go to zander.com or call 800- at 356-4282 to get your term life insurance quote today. Lexi is in Oklahoma City up next. Lexi, welcome to the show. Hi there. Hey, how can we help? So, basically, I'm kind of wondering if I should cut my husband off of our income and just spending. Whoa, what happened? That's serious. I'm fighting words. Yeah, it is. And so, kind of back story, before we got married, he had some debts from gambling and whatnot. And I asked him, hey, could you pay that off before we got married? And he did. And then throughout our marriage, he's just been very, very bad with money. And every time that I've given him the chance to be, hey, like, let's be better, it just has gone back to, hey, this is just not working. And so, currently, he's, like, he can ask for money, but it just feels very manipulative on my end, and I don't know what to do. When you say it's not working, does that mean he started gambling again? Or what does that mean? He will if he has access to the money. And I know that it's not a bad, like, he's not trying to be that way with money. But he just, it's like. It happens every time. How much? What's he spending? What's it look like? Well, it depends on how much he can get his hands on. A few months ago, he spent $900 in one sitting, and that just. Where is he doing this gambling? What did you say? He could go. That was at a casino. He doesn't go there very often. He has access to sports gambling on the phone. And so that's another thing that he could do. And he currently does that, but in a lot smaller capacity, because he has less access to money. Gotcha. So, yeah, we're treating the symptom here with a Band-Aid if we cut him off from the money. We need to treat the real problem, which is a gambling addiction. Does he know? Is he aware? Or is he sort of in denial? He's like, no, it's just for fun. It's a little hobby. Well, yes. And I think, I mean, I think there's other, you know, we're going to, he's going to counseling and that kind of thing. I think he's going to counseling for other things. And I feel like that's the least of the worries. I don't know about that. You're talking, this is tip of the iceberg for him. There's other issues. Yeah. That he's going through personally. Do you guys have kids? Yeah. We do. We have one. How old? Two. Okay. Now, this gambling, obviously, it's infiltrated its way into the spending as it always would. Is it keeping you guys from doing, you know, the four walls? Is it threatening your rent? Is it threatening your mortgage? Is it threatening kind of like those key areas? Yeah. When we had access to money, yes, it was. And it's, that's probably the biggest argument of our marriage is being, you know, going, hey, you know, any argument we have, hey, I need help around the house, kind of do. Well, I make money. I make money so we can spend it. You're supposed to be, you know, helping with this. And I make more money than you, so I don't have to do it. Oh, boy. So we got. Gender role issues. We've got superiority issues. We've got gambling issues. Are you in counseling? Is there any part of the counseling where it's you two going together? We did at the beginning of our marriage, and we do not now because that's his counselor. But we don't go together. Could you go to a different counselor together? I would be open to it. I just, I've never gone to a counselor in my life. You know, a lot of. Well, you need it, too, because you're dealing. I do. I'm sure that you. Because I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do it correctly. Well, of course. And no one's perfect in a marriage, so I'm sure there's things you can work on. Obviously, we know the things he can work on. But because of it sounds like because of the extent of his issues, you having the tools of knowing how to speak to him and how to communicate with him is going to be, I mean, gosh, clutch for you going through this. So, I mean, I really think, obviously, money is part of this. But to George's point, it's not the it's not the not solving that as the bandaid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I would be seeking out a counselor and someplace where you both can go together and where you can start to work on some of the issues that we talked about and that you can have real tools. How do we communicate? How can we get past these impasses? Because if you can't even talk to this guy, there's nothing you can do. The next question I have for you is how long has he been in counseling with his what you called his counselor? How long has that been going on? Five years. When we got married, I said, we need you need a counselor. He needs a new counselor. For you. And is he not in Gambler's Anonymous as well? No. Well, I think the more important thing would probably be alcohol and illness and then gambling. Oh, so we got a lot going on. OK. Yeah. And it's it's really hard because, you know, before we got married, my my my parents were very like, hey, we kind of see some things. And of course, you go, oh, whatever. And then you get married and you go, oh, wow, this is a lot deeper. And I've never had a lot of these issues. So I don't know how to deal with them. And so, yeah. Well, that's what your counselor is going to help. If I were you, honestly, today, if I woke up in your shoes, Lexi, I would go to my counselor and I'd say, here's where I'm at. And I've got a young kid at home. I need to figure out how to establish some boundaries with this guy. And I'm willing like I'm open to whatever that takes. But I have to do something that's going to, number one, keep my family safe. I need to do something that's going to keep me safe. I need to do something that's going to get his attention. Yeah. And also protect, protect me. And I think that's where you're at right now. You're dealing with somebody who's gambling. There's alcohol. There's a lot going on here. And there's probably some drastic changes that are coming down the pipe. Probably to the smallest extent is him not being part of the money, honestly. And he needs to be ready to make this life change. It sounds like so far he's been an unwilling participant. Yeah. He's just, and I am very good with money. And so it's just been, hey. But I know that you're, we both know that this is your spending habits. We both know this is how you act around money. You need to not be a part of it anymore. And most of the time he's okay with that. But like, again, it feels very manipulative. And I don't want it to feel that way for him. You're not manipulating him. You're protecting your own family. Yeah. Okay. And you mentioned that you don't work. Did I hear that? I have my own business and I do work. Okay. Yes. You're saying he just makes more and he holds that over you. He just makes more. Okay. Okay. So what did you say? So would he be willing to put some serious guardrails in place for the sake of his own family and marriage? For example, he's getting a dumb phone starting today. No more access to apps. He's going to blacklist himself from the casino so that they won't even let him in. Is he ready for those things? He would if it meant our marriage. It does. Yeah. Why doesn't he know that? I think you need to make that clear that your marriage is on the line and him opting out means he's driving it to the ground. I think it's because of that. Because I don't have enough boundaries. Yeah. And that's, hey, another part of your counseling is to figure out why you're accepting this behavior and why you've accepted it for so long. And those are things that you can sort out because George and I are looking at this from the outside and I'm going, why in the world would Lexi stand for this? Oh my goodness. I would hope my wife would take away access to money if it meant harming myself and my family. Oh gosh, you should have been told him his butt was on the line. Truthfully. Yeah. So why haven't you? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Those are things that you can start to figure out, gosh, I need to see my value and my worth in this relationship so that I can hold the line on these boundaries. And you get to decide how the trust is rebuilt and what timeline that looks like. And that might be, hey, six months with a dumb phone being blacklisted from a casino and your money going into my account that I have access to, then I'll start to earn some, you'll earn some trust with me and I'll start to loosen the reins. But it's going to take a lot of time and it only takes one time to screw up to destroy all the trust he's been trying to build. It does. It does. You need to make, I think you've been a little lackadaisical with him, making it clear that your marriage is on the line. This is more serious than he realizes. Well, before we had our kid, that, that really, I don't know if I went mama bear, I was like, we're not doing this anymore and I will leave. And, you know, after this time, it's like, oh, this is happening again. Yeah. And it just goes, you know, maybe this is not helping. Yeah. I think, I think the best thing you can do getting off this phone, cause I feel like we've told you a lot. I think the thing that you have to be in. Control of is what you control, right? He's gonna, you don't know what he's going to do and you can't control it, but you can control you, which is you're going to go to the counselor. You're going to tell him, Hey, here's what I need. And you're going to be very clear. I need tools on how to communicate with him and I need to figure out what's, why have I been so kind of lax on this and taking this. And then you need to figure out what are the boundaries that we can set in place that I can communicate to him of how he can earn trust back. And then sit with your counselor and figure out what's the, or else. If he doesn't do that, let's pretend he doesn't. What, what do those next steps look like? So you can actually stand on business and it's not just you bluffing. Yeah. And make sure he does not have access to any credit cards and make sure he freezes his credit. And if he's unwilling to do that, that's telling you something. Listen to that. Yeah. So you need to protect yourself and your family and your kids at this point. And if he wants to opt back into this marriage, he has every right to, and he has a thousand ways to do it. Wishing you guys the best. Thank you. it's almost annual enrollment time and you wish you could save money on health care costs but every year it's the same story premiums go up again and yet you can't even control your choice of doctors chm is not insurance it's a health cost sharing ministry where members literally share each other's medical bills instead of paying into a big uncaring system chm programs start at just 115 a month and while insurance premiums keep climbing chm isn't raising their prices this year and you're not locked into an enrollment window either so you can sign up right now before you watch your premiums jump again y'all ramsey has trusted chm for over 15 years because their mission is simple christians helping christians cover their medical bills visit chm.org chministries.org budget and use promo code ramsey for 50 credit towards your first month's membership chministries.org budget or click the link in the description up next we've got bella in saginaw michigan bella welcome to the ramsey show hi hey how can we help oh my gosh okay i'm so nervous um my question is i'm 21 i just turned 21 and i'm in my senior year of my program at my college and i'm trying to decide if i'm ready to move out financially exciting okay so do you have a job lined up yeah so i plan on going for my master's so i'll um i'll go right after i graduate this may uh into a master's program and i'm very very fortunate my mom is going to be a master's student and i'm going to be a master's student and i'm going to be a master's student and i'm going to be a master's student and i'm going to be a master's student helping me cash flow all of my college which i know is just the biggest blessing and it's so amazing and i appreciate her so much for it so you're going to graduate debt free any debt yeah yeah i'm so excited about that and i have been that was not the plan when i started college um i had a whole bunch of savings um that i had saved or that um i got my grad party or whatever um and so now i just kind of have that how much is that but because i i have 46 000 wow that was some grad party yeah let me who do you know and i've been i've been i've worked in hard since i i mean i worked three jobs for forever i just work and work and save and save so i use every dollar budget i listen to you guys so fantastic and i live at home too so that's another thing is right now i don't pay any rent are you close to the school i'm about 30 minutes away perfect i do pay a good amount of gas what's your master's program uh it's going to be in social work so it'll be a one year and it's super cool so i'm graduating with my bachelor's in social work so i only have to do a one-year master's program so and what what's the difference in pay in social work going from just a undergrad to a master's degree is there a huge bump or kind of what's the path here you almost you can't yeah so you can't do a lot as a bachelor's level social worker you can like there's definitely career paths there but not what i'm looking to do i want to be a therapist like outpatient therapy um and you have to have a master's degree to become a clinical therapist okay which is actually exactly what my mom does as well and she owns a practice that i currently work at okay very nice and i'm coming to work for her when i am done um so what's stopping you from moving out you've got the cash you've got college is paid for it's not like you need to be you know stacking aside money to pay for it so what's stopping you so for the longest time it's just been like emotional readiness like i like living with my mom we have fun um and i just didn't feel the need to move out um but it's been creeping up on me the last like are you going to be working part-time while in this master's program so yes and that's the thing is it's going to be inconsistent so that's what's keeping me kind of is i know you guys are going to say 25 or less um and there's no realistic way for me to do that right now how come um with what i am making just because of how much i'm able to work because my school is a full-time program and i have to do two right now i'm doing two full days at an internship that's completely unpaid and then next year i will be doing three full days in an internship that's completely unpaid so i'm only making about 800 a month right now i do a lot of side jobs so i get a lot of random extra cash yeah um like frequently but i never count on it so typically all of that just goes right into my savings and the master's program it's two years right one year it's only one year okay so we're talking a year and a half you're graduating from the master's program yep yep hopefully may have 2028 okay okay i'm fine with you continuing to live at home i mean it's it's working out it's not a toxic relationship you're super young you're still in school you're not going to be in school much longer there's a clear end to this which is 18 months from now okay i'm moving out as soon as you get that full-time job you're gone and it's not out of okay you know i'm done mom i want to be an independent woman it's just i think it's very healthy for you to separate in that way you're still going to see your mom at work every day it sounds like yeah yeah won't miss each other too much what i'm been considering though is moving out this spring okay um how would you do it kind of because i can so i can cash flow but it's not going to be 25 it's going to be more like 50 but i don't have any other overhead well why can't you get a roommate i don't have any other bills i am i do plan on getting a roommate so it'd be 50 even with $500 a month okay okay yeah no that sounds reasonable i mean the parameter doesn't really apply for your situation because you're a student working super part-time so and the rent is so low yeah it's it's so the rent yeah so it would be about 50 of my take-home but i don't spend my take-home on anything else like it's all just going into savings right now um or like entertainment but i very realistically could cash flow my apartment like i make enough what about everything else for what rent would be insurance gas food i work so insurance my parents cover for me food i it's a unique situation but i meal prep so i meal prep for my whole family that's great so they buy the groceries i'm just what i'm getting at i'm just getting at making sure the eight hundred dollars is enough to you know i'm just getting at making sure the eight hundred dollars is enough to get you by or if you're planning on kind of pulling a little from this 46 000 like what do you see what i'm saying and what i would suggest for you what i would suggest for you is and i don't know if you've done this but i would open up every dollar and i would plan this thing out and just see it on paper so you can know ahead of time exactly what you've done it for sure yeah okay great then you're i mean you're ahead of the game i think bella you're thinking about this on every on every single side which already just proves you're a very responsible lady and he even if you set aside a portion of those savings to say hey i'm going to use some of this to cover my expenses for the next year that's okay the key is you don't want to just drain your savings to cover your lifestyle which sounds like you are not the culprit for that so i'm far less worried for you but this is one of those listen you're not 35 still living with mom and dad while working full-time so you're going to get a nice pass if you want to continue living at home it's a good situation you're out in 18 months either way you're good way to go sharp gal yeah i wish i was that sharp at 21. i wish i had the friends that she has that will pony up 46 000 upon graduation real all right let's go out to jason and dc up next jason what's going on hey guys how you guys doing today doing great how are you good i can't complain too much what's going on um so long story short um me and my wife uh had our first daughter uh february 5th 2000. 2025 and she was born with a a very severe diagnosis that's gonna be for the remainder of her life um we lost our jobs i was a full-time teacher she was a full-time um social worker so we spent the first 10 months of our life in our uh in the hospital with our daughter um and we're now living with her parents um we're just now getting back on our feet i'm i'm back part-time as a teacher she's now working at a non-profit um but you know because of my daughter's complexities we haven't been able to work full-time hours uh so our income has been substantially cut short as opposed to when before our daughter was born how much are you taking home currently okay so me um i'm getting about 1800 a month and my wife is getting about a thousand a month do you know what it would cost and i'm not saying i maybe you're not open this to this but do you know what it would cost to have the care a care provider come in so that you could work is there something provided through is there anything provided to you so there there are services that are available the the only tricky part with with that is where we live in dc the laws are kind of weird with home care now to where like you can't interview nurses and get consistency like you used to before and then some other do you have family support in dc yeah we we live with her parents so they help the best that they can are you wanting what's a perfect world for you guys does your wife stay home and care for your daughter and you're the sole income provider so so my wife works from home She makes her own hours, but she's capped at around 20 to 30 hours a month right now because it's a starter nonprofit. A month? Yeah, a month. But could you work full-time and cover all the bills? I'm saying if you went to work full-time. Say that one more time. I'm sorry. If you went to work full-time, would there be enough care with your wife and family? There would be enough care. Because that's the solution here. We're just trying to figure out which levers do we want to pull to create enough income to cover all the bills with a little bit of margin while getting the care she needs. So there's a lot of variables there. I would look at all of the options and then make the best decision with the information you guys have. But I'm so sorry. That's such a tough diagnosis and definitely changes the future. And check what government programs are available because I'm sure there's something out there that would help. I'm sure there's some sort of SSI that's out there that would help. If your business is making seven figures or more, you should be proud of that. But that growth probably brought a mess with it. Systems that don't talk to each other. It's impossible to track down your numbers because they're scattered everywhere. That's a visibility problem. And NetSuite has solved that problem for more than 44 years. 4,000 businesses like yours. NetSuite brings financials, inventory, CRM, and more into one place. And their AI tool, NetSuite Next, builds AI into everything. Automating busy work like forecasting demand and chasing down overdue accounts. It's not complicated to use. You just ask it questions like you're talking to a person. And you're not starting from scratch because NetSuite is built on leading practices from thousands of people. Thousands of businesses preloaded and ready to go. Ramsey Solutions switched to NetSuite years ago. It helped us know our numbers and we've never looked back. If your revenue is at least seven figures, try NetSuite Next for free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Or click the link in the description. If you're new around here, welcome. We're so glad to have you. We answer every question on the show through the lens of the Ramsey Plan and the seven baby steps. So if you haven't seen those yet, that's the best place to start. We'll drop a link in the description for you to check those out. Zayen is in Little Rock, Arkansas up next. What's going on? Hi. How can we help? Is it Zayen? Did I get that right? Zayen, yes, sir. Perfect. What's your question today? So I just purchased a house with my wife. We are 20 and 21. And we are just trying to find out the best next steps that we can take to ensure that we have a healthy and set future eventually to be able to introduce kids into. Okay. So how long have you guys been married for? We have been married for about a month and a week. Wow. And you already got a house? Yes, sir. How did that happen? At 20? We purchased our house just about a month ago. So long and short of it, we've been best friends for over four years. And we've been together for a little over two now. We got very, very, very blessed. Right around the time that we were married, we had a baby. We had a baby. We had a baby. We were looking to get married. My grandmother started experiencing a mental decline. Now, that's not the blessing part. However, she was looking to sell her house. And while we were in a very good market to do so, we'd already been saving up for it. We ended up being able to purchase the house from her. What'd you pay for it? We paid $165. $165 is the amount that we have on the mortgage. We put 20% down at $41,000 and for our total sale price of $205,000. Wow. And what's your monthly payment? Our monthly payment on the house is $1,450, roughly. Cool. And what do you guys earn every month between the two of you guys? So between the two of us, our monthly income is right around $4,000 a month. Okay. Way to go. Well done. Do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage? Outside the mortgage, we have her car, which is about $15,000. And we have a couple of credit cards that we use in utilization to get the most out of the rewards for them. And across those, we probably have about $1,500 across the three of them. $1,500 balance plus the $15,000. So $16,500 in total consumer debt. Nothing else? Yes, sir. That'd be everything I can think of. Now, that $4,000 that you're bringing in. Again, I'm guessing part of that is her income? Yes, that is correct. How much of that is hers and how much is yours? She's actually the breadwinner by the difference of about $500. Okay. She makes $19 an hour, about to be $20 an hour here in, I believe, it's about a month. So my screen says that your wife wants to stay home, which means you got to figure out a way to make up almost $3,000. So $2,700, $2,900 a month. How do you think you're going to go about that? Come back in. So I am in the process right now of trying to mostly figure that out. As of right now, I am the assistant general manager for a fast food chain that I work for. And I don't think it's my forever job because I just, I don't see a lot of growth in it. Do you want to stay in hospitality? Or do you want to go to a totally different career field? I would go to anything that would ensure my family's future, realistically. That doesn't take me away from home for like weeks at a time. What's the timeline? That's the only condition on the wife. We are looking at about two years that we would like to be fully financially stable enough to be able to have a kid. I mean, then that's the, I mean, that's the equation you guys have got to solve. I think you understand it pretty clearly in that if you stop, if she stops working, obviously, suddenly the mortgage doesn't work. None of this, none of this budget works anymore. So it would then be up to you to close that gap and hopefully and then some. And so knowing what the timeline is, I've got two years, I've got to start working backwards. And I, it would be my aim to really end up in a career field versus the next job that kind of pays what I need. So on this two years, I'd be going on that journey. Figuring out, okay, what's the work that I'm wired to do? And by the way, we'll send you Ken Coleman's book, find the work you're wired to do. There's an assessment in there that can help you figure that out. And then you take the results of the assessment and it'll help you find different career fields. So we'll give you that. But that's, I mean, that's really what this looks like is taking it and reverse engineering it to make it happen. Do you guys have any savings right now? Right now, because we did just go through with the down payment and everything. We don't have a huge savings currently stocked up. Is it $1,000? Is it $10,000? We have, it's a little over $2,000. Okay. So you could pay off the credit cards with the next paycheck? Yes. With that plus some of the savings? Yeah, I was about to say, if we truly wanted to, we could go ahead and pay them off. It's just simply the, we do keep them usually in utilization, but I do know that that like. Right. You're saying carrying a balance is a blessing for you guys? I'm confused how that helps with anything. Well, yeah, because think about it. Let me just put this in perspective for you. If for whatever reason, she lost her job tomorrow, you guys are up a creek. Not only are you losing your major income, but you've got $1,500 in credit cards and you've got a car payment, $15,000. With only $2,000 saved, suddenly you feel that $1,500 breathing down your neck, don't you? And paying 28% APR is negativeness. Negating any rewards you could be getting. Right? No, that's right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm not trying to knock you. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. Well, and he said that he wants to create a peaceful financial future for his family. So if I could go back in time, I would steer you guys away from jumping into home ownership this early while you're still carrying debt, wiping out your savings. So the best thing to do from here on out is let's wipe out the consumer debt, build a fully funded emergency fund while working on our careers. So that's the game plan. And then once you can do the math, I'm doing the math here, you'd need about $5,800 a month take home on your own to make this make sense, which is about $70,000 per year take home, which is probably about $90,000 plus in salary. So you see how I reverse engineered that? Yes, sir. So now you can go, okay, based on what my talent, passion, mission, what fires me up, what can I go out and do at 21, 22, 23 years old to go make $90,000? And it may not be your. Forever career. It may be, I did this for five years, got some experience. You're so young that you've got so much time. You'll probably have four careers in your lifetime, and that's okay. But just don't go do something because you heard it makes a lot of money. That is the quickest path to misery. Gotcha. I don't want you coming home depressed every day, and you're like, well, I cover the bills, but I can't be a present husband and dad because my medical device sales job is draining me. You know what I mean? Right. That totally makes sense. Yes, sir. And the credit card rewards game is a slippery slope, and if you can nip it in the bud at this age, you're going to be unbelievably wealthy because you're going to be able to create your own rewards with your own margin you create. So, Zane, just to recap, because I like to give people clear homework, when you come off this call, you've got four things you need to do. First off, yeah, you need to cut up the credit cards, just like George said. Number two, we'll give you every dollar. I want you to go into the every dollar budget, and I want you to create one just so that you can figure out exactly how much margin you have, and this is feeding into number three. As you see the margin, when you sign up for every dollar, it's going to walk you through an onboarding. It's going to ask you what your goals are. You need to put in there that your biggest goal is to pay off debt, and it's going to help you find the margin to do that. And then that's number three. You need to use that margin to pay off these two debts. Find yourself some breathing room. And then number four is, like I said, we'll give you Ken Coleman's book. Start reading up and start figuring out who the heck you are out there in the marketplace so you can make some money. That's right. And I'll also send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, saying it's going to cover credit cards, credit. Scores, every type of debt under the sun, and then how to break free out of that system and basically opt out and buck the system entirely and go, I don't have to play this game. And it is so freeing once you realize that you've been caught in the matrix and there's a clear path out. So hang on the line. We'll get you all those resources. Thanks for the call. When you take your car to the shop, you're probably thinking two things. How much is this going to cost? How much is this going to cost me? And is it going to get done right? What you need is a mechanic who will give you transparent information so you can make the best decision for your car and your wallet. Christian Brothers Automotive is the official auto repair shop of The Ramsey Show because you can trust them to take care of your vehicle the right way. Their digital vehicle inspections let you see exactly what their technicians see, giving you confidence on which repairs are urgent and which ones can wait. Plus, every repair is backed by their Nice Difference Warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles. With a guarantee like that, you can walk away knowing that your car and your wallet are taken care of. Schedule your service today and get 10% off your visit at cbac.com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. That's cbac.com slash Ramsey. 10% off, up to a $250 value. See store for details. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Daniel is in D.C. up next. Daniel, welcome to the show. How you doing? Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? Hey, so I'm looking to buy a new car. I have some investment properties. I have a good credit score. And I, you know, I have some money saved up as well. But the current issue I'm going through right now is I have a high DTI and I'm not sure what route to take to be able to buy this car. You're saying you won't qualify for the car loan because of your debt to income ratio? Yeah. Yeah, so my. You got a lot of debt. Yes. But I want to see what the best course of action would be to purchase this new vehicle. I'm not trying to upscale my life. I just recently got a new job. But it's more of, it's going to be more economical for me. So what car do you have now? I currently have a 2014 Mustang. Okay. And is it paid off? Yes. All right. And what's this new car you want to buy? I want to buy a 2024 Tacoma. All right. What's it cost? Yeah, how much is that? It's $30,000. The Mustang, when you trade it in, what will you get for it? If you were to trade it in or sell it yourself? I'm currently looking to sell it myself and I have an interested buyer and we met at $7,000. Okay. And then you said you had money saved. How much do you have saved? So I have about $22,000 to $24,000. Total? That's all of your liquid cash? Yes. What other debt do you have? I have just student loan and credit card debt. How much is that? So combined, roughly $5,000. Okay. So is the debt to income ratio because of your investment properties? Yes. I have two homes. They're actually right next to each other. But when I talk about the investment homes, they both have equity anywhere from $240,000 to $250,000. Okay. But how much are you bringing in? I mean, the whole point of having this real estate, you really want to make sure it's bringing in some money for you. What do you bring in every month? So I'm bringing in close to $3,000 after taxes and retirement. And that's it? All your money you bring in is from the real estate or do you have like a nine to five or a job? No, no, no. I have a nine to five job. But I also am splitting this three ways with a siblings. So I have two other sisters who- That sounds messy. Okay. Before we pull that thread too far, let's go back to the car briefly. Obviously, you could pull together the cash to buy this car, but I would not do it. I wouldn't do it for a couple reasons. The most obvious is it would be taking all the cash that you have saved and throwing it into a new car, which I can't justify that for anybody. The second reason is you still have consumer debt, laying around. And the third reason is it doesn't sound like it's a necessity. It just sounds like it's something that you want. And so all things considered, I would advise you not to do this. And then we can talk about what it looks like for you to be able to do this in the future if you want. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first option definitely did not want to drain my savings over a car. But ultimately, it's like the amount of gas that I'm currently spending on is probably going to be just the same amount as a new car payment plus the gas. I'm confused. You're buying a Tacoma because you're upset about gas prices? A Tacoma is going to do better on gas than a Mustang? Yes. So right now. Hold on. If you're about fuel efficiency, why not go get a Prius? I mean, so I also do have a side business that does require some towing every now and then, but it's not too heavy. So it's just like a perfect. What have you been doing, though? What have you been doing in the meantime without the Tacoma if your business requires towing? Renting a truck or trying to find somebody who can lend me the truck for the day. Can you just go down to Home Depot and rent a truck for 20 bucks an hour? Yeah. Why don't you keep doing whatever you've been doing? But don't put yourself in a worse state and justify it with. Because your justifications are kind of weak is all I'm saying. I want you to get this car. I just want you to do it in a way that's going to set you up further down the line. What would it look like if we said, okay, let's take some of the 24,000. Let's clear out the student loan in the credit card debt. You said it's only 5,000, right? So now we've got 19 left. And then let's keep that aside. Let's call that our emergency fund. So now we're at baby step three, which if you're walking our seven baby steps or seven of them, doing all this paying off the debt is baby step two. Saving up three to six months is baby step three. Now you're there. Now we can actually start getting on a footing and now we can start saving up for a car. And you don't have to save up all of it because you've got the Mustang there, right? You've still got the 7,000 and the Mustang. So how quickly after paying off that debt, how quickly could you save up the difference, the 23,000? How quickly could you do that if you worked a little bit extra, really pulled your budget tight? It would only be a couple months. Boom. So we're saying it's just a not right now. You can do this and it sounds like you have a great income. What's your total monthly take home pay? Um, so after taxes, it's going to be, um, like roughly 1500. Oh no, sorry. That's bi-weekly. So like 3000. That's total. Yes. You're saying 3000 a month is what you take home. Yes. That's with nine to five and the real estate properties. Uh, yes. Most, mostly the, uh, investment properties have been getting whatever, you know, is generated from that. We just reinvested it. to sit into the home. - So you're not really making money. So let's just put that aside and say you're full-time job is all of your income but you're telling me you make about 40 grand a year right now which means you certainly oh sorry right sorry um it's it's closer to 52 000 i just put uh about like 13 into my 401k and then another couple percent into different investments okay well just remember this rule of thumb and i think that you're good for doing the math when you get off the phone but really do the math on what your take-home pay is uh really do the math on what your gross pay is and then what we would say is your vehicle doesn't doesn't need to be any more than half of that so if you make 50 grand a year uh before taxes let's keep it at 25 so i get the feeling i don't know that i'm right because i think you're still trying to figure out your numbers but i get the feeling that a 30 000 tacoma might be a little too steep for you right now just keeping things in their correct ratios absolutely and it might mean you just get a slightly more used tacoma i mean if you're already going used why not a 2020 why not a 2018 right absolutely you got options so then just go cool my car budget is 25 000 max now what makes sense for that based on my life and i think currently you sound like a young guy how old are you uh i'm 24 years old okay here's the other problem and many especially young man young men experience this whatever car you're driving you'll never go backwards and so that's the hardest part is you always want to go bigger and better that's just human nature and so it's hard to go backwards so what i do is i tread lightly you don't want to just stair step into a brand new tacoma because then you'll always want to drive a brand new truck the rest of your life so if you drive a used truck it's paid for in cash you drive that thing to the ground while saving up for the next one over time you're going to be driving a really nice truck and the guy next to you in the truck is going to have a big old payment to go with it and you're going to be a guy who's debt free so that's the path i'll send you my book breaking free from broke daniel that'll walk you through all of these steps when is the right time to invest how do i go about this car purchase the smart way because i want to see you build massive wealth instead of just look good on paper if you've ever been really sick or been the caregiver to somebody who was you know how broken the health care system can be man nothing is easy finding the right doctor sitting on hold for hours or gosh trying to understand co-pays and treatment plans and weird medical terms that no one really explains and so much paperwork but what if you had someone to do all of that for you someone to take the burden off your shoulders solace health pairs patients with a personal advocate whose entire job is to fight for you and these advocates are covered by insurance nationwide they handle the paperwork fight denied claims and they're not going to be the only ones who are 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okay so long story short just wondering i had a boyfriend living with me for eight years he's moved out wasn't ever on title it's my home he did renovations on the house now he wants to be paid out for that uh so i'm looking at about sixty thousand dollars and i'm looking at about a hundred thousand dollars and i'm looking at about a hundred thousand dollars to pay out trying to figure out should i tap out my savings or should i refinance some of that on my mortgage did you ask him to do this work oh gosh it's kind of a long story i know dave always says don't live together unless you're married but well you know best case scenario it's a teaching lesson to other people out there life life lesson yeah if you're a woman owning your own home and you're doing fine just keep it that way unless again you maybe get married but um so yeah i mean he moved in and he said you know we can update this and that and the next thing it has already been at the lawyers it's been really expensive and at this point i kind of want to be done with it so okay so you know you're on the hook for this there's no question yeah he sued for this money this was not like a text no this has already been with the lawyers okay i just need it to finish it because as you know they're expensive so do you have the cash do you have the money laying around i've got 47 000 in my savings i've got um and i've got i'm just not sure if i should tap that out and then refinance some of it i hate to lose all my savings it's like that security yeah how much time do you have to pay out uh probably a couple months really just a few what does the actual agreement say like was it hey i'm going to pay this much monthly agreed on it yet but right now that's what it's looking at so i'm kind of getting my ducks in a row i'm one of these people that likes to get stuff done ahead of time and be ready well i'd be talking with your lawyer to to come up with a a timeline that's reasonable and let your lawyer know i really don't want to refi i really don't want to have to do that i would rather look at some kind of structure where maybe you can pay like the majority maybe you can do 40 like you can do 30 up front and then 30 over the next year through payments something like that yeah that feels better to me of like all right i'll pay 2500 bucks a month beyond that until it's paid out i don't know if it'll work that way or they take a settlement and go all right we'll take we'll take 45 up front and be done with it you know yeah yeah it could be that way that situation too because the problem is the repairs it's not it's clear how much he put into it but we don't know but it's upgrades like it's it's renovations basically but yeah he lived here for like 500 bucks a month so next to nothing so it's kind of complicated it's not a really a straightforward question i guess but but it's already been determined by the court that you owe the 60 000 pretty much so that's not really in question it's just how how can we structure clearly you don't have all the money today and you can't go down to zero so then what's reasonable i think what's reasonable is paying half right now and then the other half over a short amount of time less than a year like would you guys tap out your savings folks i wouldn't i wouldn't take it to zero that's why we're suggesting what we're saying yeah if you can say i'll give you 30 30 000 cash up front and then again structure out how you're going to do the next 30 how much margin do you have in your budget every single month uh i'm a super saver i have been my whole life i've got a lot saved from my retirement um i i don't make a ton of money but i own my car i don't have any debt at all but if you did an every dollar budget which i don't know if you have one if you don't we'll give you one but if you were to type type type tap in you're going to have a lot of money and you're going to have a lot of your income all your expenses how much would be left over after you've covered your expenses probably i don't know maybe a thousand bucks okay so based based on that margin what i would do is we'll give you every dollar like i said and tonight or this weekend your homework is to create the budget and it's going to ask you when you go into every dollar it's going to say what's your goal and just put pay back my boyfriend you know my ex-boyfriend thirty thousand dollars right it's a debt i'm so ridiculous but yeah well it's a debt and so i'm telling you life lessons exactly listen you'll never make that mistake again but sounds good at the time but yeah it can end in disaster that's for sure from there on it's going to help you find margin and follow the suggestions because if you can side hustle if you can work extra if you can find areas in your budget that you can cut back and get that thousand dollars of margin up to like i don't know two thousand or twenty five hundred if you do all of the things that's going to be a huge benefit for you because i'm like you know i'm not going to i don't want your hard-earned savings to go down to zero plus that steals your security that's yeah a little bit of security blanket that's for sure so you have your own lawyer he has his yes okay i'm guessing we don't want to spend any more time hashing this out with them because that's racking up your lawyer bills you know what honestly i've never had to go through this type of scenario and yeah that's uh yeah life lesson for sure and that's the other side of not giving him every dollar because there are going to be i gotta believe there's going to be other lawyer things that pop up because every time you text your lawyer it's a fee right like that'll be a hundred dollars it's honestly it's crazy it's so expensive yes that's why i want to just get some real clarity as fast as we can and be done with it and say great we agreed half up front half over this time period and we'll see i mean the the hope is that you can actually afford whatever monthly payment you guys agree to so make sure you don't agree to something you can't actually afford if it's two thousand dollars a month and your margin is a thousand that's not going to work yeah and i'd fight real real hard to not have to refinance i'd fight very hard against that yeah i mean my mortgage is quite small but it's So, yeah, I hate refining. Well, I'm guessing your interest rate is better than it would be now. Good lesson learned, and hope everyone listening out there either avoids that or gets out of that situation if they're in it. Oh, yeah. Thanks for that. Mike is in Cleveland up next. Mike, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Doing great. That's good. My question is, is it ever okay to factor in your future inheritance into your money plan? How future? How future of an inheritance? Tomorrow or 30 years from now? Yeah. No, it's probably, I would say, 20, well, I'd say 15 to 20 years. Ooh. Okay. And how much do you think that you're going to inherit? I think. Um, I think when my, uh, when my mom, uh, passes away, I think it'll probably be in the neighborhood of a million. Okay. So, uh, so me and my wife, our total net worth is a little bit over a million right now. Good. So the reason I'm asking this question is because, you know, we're still doing. 15% to retirement. Um, our retirement is at $550,000 right now. And so I was just wondering if it makes sense to keep contributing to that or if, or if we should, or if it'd be okay to stop that and do some, uh, do some home projects, uh, give away, uh, some more money, uh, to people in need. Um. Or if we should, uh, delay that, my, my concern would be, is that we, you know, we delay that and then, um, you know, we get to a point where we're in our, uh, 60s, 70s, and we have a bunch of money, but we didn't get a chance to, um, to use it like we would have wanted to maybe, uh, 15, 20 years ago. So I'm 50 right now. My wife's, uh, 44. The hard part with that, Mike. Is it, I mean, it's like the age old, don't count, count your chickens till they're hatched. And I mean, you're talking about a 15, 20 year span. So much can happen during that time. And. Just a long-term care nursing home stay could wipe half of that out. Gosh, yes. And how many times do we get calls on here about inheritance that just doesn't go as planned or somebody comes out of the blue and, you know, is claiming their state. Just so many things can happen. I love the fact that you guys want to give, but I think that. Waiting until that inheritance comes, gosh, then you can really get crazy if it really is a million dollars, but I would stay the course. I would keep investing the 15%. And I'm not sure if your mortgage is paid off, but if it's not, you can start to kind of pull your foot off the pedal here and there to do those home repairs. You don't have to, you know, sacrifice to that. Budget for it now. And listen, if you can get to the point where you never needed the inheritance, you just inherited a million bucks that you can give, and that can do some serious impact. Whether you're 50, 60, or 70. So stay the course, keep investing, and imagine that inheritance doesn't exist. I love a good sale. I also love the holidays. But if you're like me, sometimes those two don't mix well. Because six promo codes and a commercial later, it's so easy to convince yourself that you need just one more scented candle, or a waffle maker shaped like a Christmas tree, and some flannel pajamas. The temptation to spend more than you budgeted for is real. That's why I love having a bank that keeps my free spirit in check. And for me, that's Fairwinds Credit Union. With their smart bundle, you can choose a Ramsey-themed debit card that says live like no one else. It's a great reminder to stick to your goals. And what you're working toward, especially in a season that wants you to spend instead of save. You get a no monthly fee checking account and a high-yield savings account. You can even open up additional savings accounts, like a holiday fund for gifts, so you can finally pull the trigger on that waffle maker. Because staying on track for the holidays doesn't mean giving up your free spirit. It just means being smart about it. So get your live like no one else debit card by opening a smart bundle today at fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. That's fairwinds.org slash Ramsey. Insured by the NCUA. If you've worked hard to get out of debt, the question then becomes, what do I do with the freedom I've created? Well, we're going to unpack what comes next on the Live Like No One Else Cruise. This is your week to get away. Have an incredible vacation and hear brand new teachings from Dave and all of us Ramsey personalities. Talking about setting new goals after beating debt, ways to continue building wealth, creating a legacy that lasts beyond you. Plus, of course, we've got to have some fun. So you're going to experience live show tapings, the world's largest debt-free scream, and time with all of us Ramsey personalities goofing off, having a good time. Karaoke's, Q&As, you name it, we're going to be doing it. Western Caribbean, March 14th through the 21st, 2027. So if you're on Baby Step Forward and beyond, come join us. Book your cabin at RamseySolutions.com slash events. Mary Kay is in Atlanta up next. What's going on, Mary Kay? Hi, Dave. Sure. My youngest daughter is 29. She was recently promoted to be a manager at a dental office. Cool. She struggles with mental health. She is bipolar, OCD, body dysmorphia. She is a wonderful person. She is a hard worker, but she has episodes where. She does get depressed. In the past, she has struggled with thoughts of suicide. And she has gotten herself, this is not the first time, into significant financial debt. From what she told me when we last spoke, she's probably upside down about $1,500, $1,600 a month on her expenses because of running up credit card bills. She comes from a very well-off family. But we've always instilled living within your means. But she has asked me to help bail her out. What does that look like? Pay off all her debts? She said she owes $12,000 in credit card debts. I do not know how much she owes in student loans or car payments. So what happens? Does she. When this takes place, is it kind of just like a downward spiral that happens and she goes off? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She goes off on her meds and it just gets worse and worse. No, she stays on her meds, but she still suffers from fears of depression while she'll go out and do spending sprees. And I feel like I already have bailed her out one time, kind of unknowingly, let's put it that way. And I believe that her father also helped her at that time. Okay. But at the same time, as I expressed earlier. Earlier to the screener, I feel like I already subsidized her to some extent because she lives in a rental property that I have in Athens. Okay. And I only charge her the mortgage. So I could easily rent it for maybe $500 or $600 more than she is paying. Mm-hmm. I guess I walked. Does she live alone? Yes, she does. Have you. If I were in your shoes, I probably, myself, I'd probably walk into a counselor's office and go, my daughter is bipolar. She's got body dysmorphia. She suffers from depression. How do I. What are some things that I need to be expectant of? What are some things that I need to consider norms versus things that are outside the norm? What are. Like, how do I create boundaries around that? Because my guess is that's going to inform some of her behaviors. And if you can learn more about what that means for you, you can be ready when those things take place. Like, that was something that. I was thinking about. Would you. Because of HIPAA violations, would you suggest that I reach out to her counselor? She sees a psychiatrist once a month and a therapist once a week. I do have a relationship, Joanne, when I was going through divorce, for a counselor that helps me quite a bit. Do you suggest reaching out to my counselor? I would. I'd start there. And then if you find out that there's barriers because of things that you can't share or that. That she can't hear because of what you said, HIPAA, then we can cross that bridge when we get to it. But I think just understanding those general diagnoses and understanding what it means for you being in her life, I think that's a great place to start because then you can create realistic boundaries and know, hey, this is kind of normal. This is not normal. This is actually real. This is an excuse, right? For me, I'll be honest with you. Even me listening, I'm like, gosh, I don't know what part of this is a real reason for overspending and which part of this is actually. Could be maybe an excuse and it's just bad behavior, right? Yeah. And she did mention to me one time that part of it is. I'm going to use that. She didn't use the word entitlement, but I'm going to say entitlement, because like I said, we, you know, even though her father and I divorced, we both did very well, do very well for ourselves. So they know you'll be there. She knows you'll be there and you can financially afford to be there. So could she afford full rent on her own today? Well, she has said that right now she's about $1,500, $1,600 short every month. That's fine. If you charge her $0 in rent, I think she'd still be in this situation. Correct. I agree. And that's my fear. You bail her out again. She's right back here three months from now. Yes. So here's what I would do. I'll give you an option. This is just what I might do if this was my daughter. And I can't imagine how difficult this whole situation must be for you guys. I would say. I would say I am willing to pay off your debts, but it's with conditions. Number one, you cut up your credit cards and you never use credit cards again. Number two, you freeze your credit with all three bureaus so that you can't go open up new accounts. And number three, you never go into debt again. And if you follow those three conditions and sign an agreement, I will pay off your debts today. And you're going to be on a written budget. That's what I would like to do. And I guess my. It's like anything. When you throw the mental illnesses, you always have to pay off your debts. You always have the concern that, well, what if I don't do this? Right. And I do hard parenting. Is that going to send her to spiral? Is she going to do something to go into depression, possibly hurt herself? And that's why I would speak with the counselor because I like what George said. I think that those are reasonable things to ask for. But then you can bring that to the therapist and say, is this reasonable to ask of her? And what do I do? And you guys can kind of start creating those kind of emergency plans for how to react, and you can have just kind of a clear set of parameters of here's what we do, here's what we do if she does this, here's what we do if she does this. Because I'm listening to you, Mary Kay, and I'm with you. I'm thinking, gosh, if this were my daughter, I'm thinking if I weren't here for her, gosh, she'd probably be homeless. She'd be maybe on the streets with this type of behavior. Or maybe it's not quite that extreme. Maybe you're right. Maybe she is feeling that entitlement. And maybe half of this is the mental health and half of this is just her being irresponsible. I can't sit here and tell you that I know the difference, because I don't. But I think a therapist could help you. And I do think that if you do find that a lot of this is an excuse, then I would be putting the screws to her with some hard boundaries. I could tell you that much. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. And I wish you all the best. I have one more question for you, Mary Kay. Would it be helpful for her to get a roommate, to have some community, some support, a living, breathing human in the house with her? She also has three cats and a dog. It's a 1,000-square-foot, two-bedroom, two-bath. That's crowded up in there. Yes, it is. I can smell it from here. I'll be honest. And this was before she got rid of the six chickens in the backyard. Oh, my gosh. I don't know how to restrict access to chickens, but I might start there. I'd say, hey, this is my rental unit. No animals allowed. Yes, yes. I do think that knowing her, and again, how much of it is that she's just, she's used to having a nice life, how much of it is additional stress on her, but her experience with roommates has not been that great in the past. Let's put it that way. Sure. I just don't want her to be 39 and still have this sort of stunted growth because no one ever sort of pushed her into independence and adulthood. I am curious, though, Mary Kay. I do get her credit. Oh, yes, ma'am. When did all these diagnoses hit? Has this always been a struggle, or did it start? Did something trigger this? What do you see there? Again, I don't know the answer to that. She had told me, her dad and I went through a very difficult divorce situation in the household. I had my part. Let's just say he's not a very healthy individual, and I think it's fine to put her in the middle. Okay, so this has been something she's dealing with for a while, and maybe some of it is even, I don't know. There's some genetics in there, too, that's at play. I don't know. Well, I wish you the best in dealing with it. It's definitely a sensitive one, so I would tread lightly, work with professionals on this, and hopefully we can get her to a point where she's financially stable, independent, and doing much better. If you're in a really bad debt situation, I know how scary that is. 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Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. We love hearing from you guys. Questions are what make. The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show. And that's all about you. So give us a call. 888-825-5225. You can also submit your question using the link in the description. Gina is in Fresno up next. What's going on, Gina? Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can Jade and I help? Well, this is interesting. I'm basically wondering if starting to invest in things like a Roth IRA is. A good idea. I think there's a lot of kind of like financial trauma my husband and I have kind of gone through throughout our marriage. I'm 46. He's 49. So it is pretty late, but we haven't really had a chance to do anything like that because of our finances. We were very hand-to-mouth, food stamps, all of that, having to live with parents, all of that for a very long time. And it hasn't been until the past couple of years or a few years that. Things have really dramatically changed. So we have this money. We do not have a home or we rent still. We haven't been able to buy. But we have this money, and we know it just kind of sits there. But I'm also scared to death to do anything with it, to hand it over to another entity and say, Do make this better for us because we're just really scared of that kind of stuff. So you guys have nothing in return? Retirement or investments right now? No, we just have savings, and that's it. How much savings? $44,900. Okay. And you're both working steady jobs? Yes, yes. And we actually have two other accounts. I have a business account for my business, and that has $13,000 in it. Okay. And it's just me. I'm a therapist, so it's just my LLC, and I pay myself that way. And then he is. I'm a painting contractor, so his has $85,000 in it, but that is split between him and his partner. Okay, got it. So it sounds like you got burned in the past. Is that what happened? Something. You got scammed? You got burned? We've never done well. We've had to declare bankruptcy in 2011. Oh, okay. And we just were people that were never able to really kind of. We had kids extraordinarily young, way too young. And we were busy doing that, and so it was just extremely hand-to-mouth for a long time. So it's not that you're skittish of the market. It's just you've never been in a situation where you feel like you've been able to invest before. So this is just brand new. Maybe that is more accurate, because we have the money. We see it. We can use it. It's there. And then to just kind of give it to somebody, it's like, yeah, I don't know, but I have it. It's mine. Well, that's a good point. So I'm glad that you said that, Gina, because I would never suggest that you hand over your. Give your money to somebody and say, go invest this for me, and just cross your fingers hoping it works out. What I would suggest is really what you're doing right now, which is I'm going to dig deeper and start to learn this for myself, so that when I do work with a smart investor pro, I understand the lingo. I understand what they're saying. I understand enough that I can approve something and say yes or no and feel educated enough to do that, right? We would never say, take advice just because George said it or just because Dave said it or just because Jade said it. We want. We want you to understand and feel comfortable enough to make choices and approve them or disapprove them. Fair enough? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, yes, no, that is very fair. So you guys have no debt currently? Yeah, well, okay, a little bit. We have $3,000 on a credit card, and then we did buy a car of $22,000 left on my car with a 1.9 interest, and that is it. And what do you guys bring in combined as your payroll? Like what do you pay yourselves and receive every month? About, I mean, just throughout the year, I think last year it was $170,000. Wow, that's a great income. Why not pay off your debts today? Probably a little bit because, again, I'm like, but I have it now. And I'm like, it's only 1.9 interest. It's fine. And I just, yeah, probably because, well, I will have a credit card. The credit card's gone. The credit card's gone next week. That's fine. Okay, I'm just wondering because you mentioned like the financial trauma and wanting to get to a better place and building for the future instead of paying. For the past and the bankruptcy. And to me, I go, after all that, the last thing I'd want to ever do is owe anybody money. That is true. Yes, yes. And we have been able to get that mindset. For some reason, I'm not so much with this car, but we can. We can. It's like I'm scared because then it'll shrink, and it's like we work so hard for that. So it's like this mental gymnastics I'm doing with myself at this point, I think, that it's like blocking me. Yeah, I think you are blocking yourself by the past because here's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at people that have a great income. And to George's point, why can't you just clear up? Because the moment you clear up this debt, obviously you could reach over and pull it from the saved money and clear it today. You're not going down to zero. You'll still have like 20 grand sitting there. Yeah. With your income, you stack back up the three to six months of expenses. In your case, if three months makes you feel better so you can get to investing, I'm fine with that. So you stack up three months. And then I'm looking at your income, and I go, gosh, with our 15% rule, so 15% off the gross, that's about $2,125 a month. And I just plugged it into our investment calculator. So I said, hey, you're 46 years old. If you did this from age 46 to 66, so the next 20 years, you start with zero in retirement, and you put those contributions in at an 11% rate of return, gosh, that's $1.8 million. Why can't that be your reality? That's pretty cool. And that's if your income never goes up. Yes, that is true. That is true. But you see, compound growth is what carried that. And if you don't start investing, you're never going to experience that. All that's going to happen is inflation. You're going to eat away at your savings, and you can't save your way to a good retirement. No, and I just want to encourage you. I totally know what it feels like to have a past that haunts you financially, whether it's bad mistakes, bad breaks, whatever it is. But that's not true today. That literally was in the past. What's true today is you make a good income. What's true today is you actually don't have all that much debt. What's true today is you have become savers, and you've built that muscle, and you have $44,000 saved. What's true today is you're a person who's financially responsible enough to call into a podcast or a YouTube show to get financial advice. That's actually what's true. And I would love for you to spend more time thinking about who you are today versus who you were with money. Okay. Yeah. You're right. The problem is you don't trust yourself, Gina. You're going, well, you're going to screw this up again. You're going to put that money in. The vending machine is going to eat all my money if I put it into that investment. Yeah. And we're telling you, go slow, tread lightly. But also, don't wait another year to start investing. Okay. And the market will go up and down. But if you invest the way we teach, it's not going to go 50% up, 60% down. It's going to basically move with the market. And guess what? The market is up 13% this year. As much chaos as you've seen in the headlines, the market is up. For like the fourth year in a row, it's up. Meaning you would have made a whole bunch of money had you been investing. Yeah. And so I want to see you guys retire with dignity because guess what? Retiring with nothing is its own financial trauma. And I don't want to see you guys get to 66 and go, well, we were so scared of the market. We never invested. And here we are needing to work until our late 70s just to make ends meet and hope Social Security is enough to cover us. You don't want that. Yeah. No, no. And I know we don't. I know we definitely don't. Yeah, it is. It's like this mental thing of waiting for the next shoe to drop or this and stuff like that that's happened. Then can I suggest this for you? If you don't trust yourself, which I hope that you build that trust over time, but if you don't trust yourself, if you don't trust yourself, you're going to be in trouble. If you don't trust yourself, you're going to get into every dollar. The app will walk with you and it will suggest the next best step. So you don't have to know it on your own. You can rely on the app to say, hey, this is the next best thing for you to do. And that way it's keeping you on track with principles you've said you already are aligned with. And I think that that's really going to help you. That way you can – it's kind of like any good plan. The benefit of being on the plan is the plan makes the decisions for you. You don't have to be the compass. It's its own filtering system. Yeah. And if you need help with this, it's also online. It's a device to work with a pro. And so if you go to RamseySolutions.com, click on SmartVestor, you can connect with someone who's going to have the heart of a teacher who will actually help you understand this and not just, well, I got a guy and I don't know what he's doing, but hopefully it's working out. No, they're going to – you need to stay in the driver's seat to where you only make the decision once you fully understand it and you're directing the advisor on what you want to do with your money after they explain it all and recommend some things. So that's what I would – that could be a great next step for you is just jump on the phone, interview a couple, work with one you feel comfortable with. And they'll help you understand. Here's all the options. Let's start you over here. Let's open the Roth IRA. Here's your options for being self-employed. You might be able to open a solo 401K and invest even more to make up for lost time. So don't stand on the sidelines any longer. And you're a therapist, so you know more than anyone the psychology of this and how to unpack that, how to get past it. But it can be so hard when it's your situation instead of someone else's. So imagine this is your friend you're talking to and coach them into building for the future instead of being stuck in the past. I'm George Camel. My co-host this hour, Jade Warshaw, taking your calls at 888-825-5222. Ethan is in San Francisco up next. Ethan, welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? I have a problem. My wife and I are about 34 years old. She's the main breadwinner of the household. Yes, she wants to quit her job and retire early. That kind of scares me because we're so young. I was wanting to help, you know, guys in terms of next steps. Wow. How old are you? I'm about 34. How much do you guys have in the nest egg? About 4.2. Wow. See, this has been at least a goal of hers, to invest heavily. Yeah, yeah. From, I'm guessing, 20s into 30s. Yeah, we had a kid two years ago, and she really wants to become a stay-at-home mom. Oh, okay. For me, like, you know, it's an opportunity cost. So is she retiring to something instead of from something, or both? We haven't made a decision yet. You know, this is, like, still on the table, and that's a concern, you know. She's still working now, but, like, I don't know. So what scares you? Let's play it out. Let's say she does stay at home. I consider retiring early versus I want to become a stay-at-home mom. Those are two different things in my brain. Now, retire from this career, sure. So would you guys be okay to live on your salary plus this, I'm guessing, non-retirement nest egg you've built? I mean, essentially, yes. You know, like, we're definitely blessed. You know, my wife makes $700. I make $350. $350. Full point to you saved. You know, so we have a nice nest egg, and what scares me the most is, like, you know, the opportunity cost, you know. Knowing that she makes so much money, can we throw that away right now? Sure. So just the fact that she makes so much, and she's just, I'm going to put it in quotes, throwing it away to just stay at home. Well, isn't the bigger question, isn't the bigger question, how much do you, like, at what point are you saying, hey, now we have enough, and anything else is truly, like, extra? And knowing what that number is? And. Because, I mean, I think, I can't speak for every woman, but, I mean, a big percentage of the calls that we get are women who have children, and they want to stay at home. Yeah. And I understand it, and, like, there's a world where we can, you know, just live off my salary, but, you know. I would hope so. Would it cut down your lifestyle? Because, I mean, retirement-wise, you guys are fine. So the opportunity cost for retirement, we can set that one aside, right? Yeah. As far as your investments go. So now it's. Okay, our day-to-day living, how does that change? I mean, we could definitely live off my salary. You know, I think our monthly expenses are about, like, $14,000 a month. Okay. So we could definitely survive off that. But, like, my viewpoint, like, the reason why I'm calling is because, like, you know, $700 is such a large number. You know, like, can we milk that a little bit more before we can make this decision to retire? Have you already had the kids, or is she pregnant? Like, where are you in that journey? We have a two-year-old. We have another one on the way. Okay. So is she like, hey, once this one shows up, I'm done? Yeah, the decision's probably going to happen in the next, like, you know, six months. Okay. I think it's a values thing. I think it's a, I think it truly is a values decision, and I think it's what do you value more? Do you value, and this is a question for both of you to answer individually, do you value the $700,000 income more than you value the wife being able to be home with the kids? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. whether for a certain period of time or indefinitely. That's the question that you have to ask. Which one holds the greater benefit for you? And I think that that could provide some clarity. And I also, I don't know, I think I'd take the word retire off of the table. Because if it were any other situation, we wouldn't be using that word. We would just say, you know, she's going to become a stay-at-home mom or she's going to do this or that. I think when you say the word retire, there's kind of this thought of like you'll never make money again. And you must live off of your retirement. If she was just going to go on a beach somewhere all day and no kids, I would say, yeah, she's going to get bored and lose purpose real quick. And it will cause some resentment because you're out here hustling, working all day. But you both are working. It's just going to look different. And even then, the 4.2, is that non-retirement? I would say like half of it's like 401k. The other half is like, you know, a brokerage account. Okay. Okay, so let's say $2 million is in a brokerage account. Is that fair? Yeah. You guys could take another $100,000 out of that and never touch the principal. Every single year. But why would you even need to? You don't even need to. I'm just saying as far as opportunity costs, you're still generating some serious returns off those investments that you could use as income if you wanted to. But you told us your expenses are $14k. And the truth is I think you're both right. $700,000 is an insane salary to turn down. And it's okay if you decide being a mom is priceless. Well, yeah, because our thing over here, and by the way, it may sound like I'm more on her side. I actually don't care which one you choose. But our whole motto over here is live like no one else so later you can live like no one else, right? And that's going to mean different things for different people. So the idea is you sacrifice on the front end. You live like no one else. You make these crazy sacrifices. And then on the back end, you can live like no one else by just creating this amazing life that you want to live and you get to just be right there in it. And I think for everybody that looks a little different. For some people, living like no one else is, gosh, I get to ride the train on a $700,000 income. And that's so fun. And then another person is like, I've sacrificed. Now I get to put the $700,000 income on the shelf because I don't want to do that anymore. And I don't have to because I don't want to. Boom. You know, so it really just is up to you. But I feel you, though, like putting that to the side, it could be hard to make that make sense in your mind. Both of you have pretty stressful jobs, I imagine. I mean, for making that kind of money, it comes with that cost. I mean, like, yeah, her words are like, you know, she's never going back to that industry again. You know, she's definitely burnt out. But for me, like, I still think we're still not funded. You know, we should stock up on it for a few more years. And I think that's a business that's green right now. But I think if you had a good reason of just like, well, we could have this much more in investments. I don't know that that's compelling enough to her. I don't either, because then the other side of that is kids. I don't know what that extra million would do. And when you're looking at children, like a one-year-old, a newborn, a two-year-old, those are times of life that are so special. You don't get them back. They don't come across again. And so she's probably like, man. I want to be there for that. Because I think what's worse is you let this ride for five more years. She's burnt out, exhausted, has missed the youngest years of her children, now resents you for it. Yep. All for the extra million that you guys don't even care to spend because you don't even want to be around each other. That's my fear. Now, that's obviously a worst-case scenario. But there is truth to that of if she wants to do this, you guys have earned the right to because of the incredible financial decisions you've made and how hard you guys have worked. And part of this whole FIRE movement, which I have my own thoughts. Thoughts on it is that you're working really hard for a short season for this long-term gain. Now, that part is very rooted in the Ramsey principles as long as you have something on the other side. And it sounds like she does. Yep, yep. And that assessment is exactly what I look through as well. And I'm on your side. I'm the number cruncher. I'm like, dang, if you work one more year, that's an extra $4 million in retirement later on. I totally empathize with your math, and I totally empathize with her heart. And I think this is a head and heart conversation. And I don't think we're going to find a compromise if we both stay in those lanes. I think you need to jump into the heart side, and she can jump into the head side too. And you guys can crunch the numbers and get a reality of what life is going to look like for the next 10, 20, 30 years. And I challenge it further to say if you did, let's pretend you did convince her to work the extra years and you get the money and you invest it. Give me a reason. Tell me what are you going to do specifically with that money? Is that the yacht money? Is that the yacht money that now you can know? You know what I'm saying? Like, tell me what it was that you were hoping to have that money earmarked for. And that way you're putting even clearer parameters around what the value actually is. dollars for the sake of dollars. The Ramsey Cash Giveaway is back, and this year we're giving one lucky winner $10,000 in cash. Plus, we're giving away $500 every week. Just imagine what $10,000 of breathing room could mean for your family this Christmas. Come back and enter daily for more chances to win, and there's no purchase necessary. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway. That's ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway. our question of the day is brought to you by ask ramsay your free ai money tool that provides personalized money answers based on ramsay principles visit ramsay solutions.com slash Okay, then today's question comes from Robert in Alaska. He says, my take-home pay is around $25,000 per month. Wow. And my wife is not currently employed. She currently puts somewhere between $8,000 and $10,000 per month on various credit cards. Oh, my Lord. While the dollar amount is concerning, my bigger issue is that there isn't any accountability for her actions. I pay the cards off every month, which has made me realize that the status quo is unsustainable. And we'll get in the way of my financial goals. I've tried to talk to her about the spending, but nothing seems to work. I want to move to a cash-only system, not even using debit cards. Okay. How do I do this without making my wife feel like I'm trying to control her? I want this to be something we agree on and do together. Okay. Wowzer. So this is wild. I hear a couple of things in here, George. Number one, obviously. She's making $25,000 per month. That's a great income. What I'm curious is the $8,000 to $10,000 that she's putting on credit cards, is that just her saying all of our expenses? You know, a lot of people do that. We put all the expenses on the credit cards to get the points. Then we pay it off when we get paid. Blah, blah, blah. Are your monthly expenses just $10,000 and she's doing most of the household spending? Right. And it's nothing burger? Or is she going out? Or is it frivolous? Right. Just spending on whatever. So that I'd like to have clarification on. Then the other side of this, and if it's not the case, that's very extreme that she's spending $10,000. But then the other extreme is he's going to a cash-only system. He's going to withdraw $25,000 from the bank every month? Yeah. He's about to get robbed. I don't see that going well either. What I do see is two people who are completely separate in their ways of thinking. He's taking a sledgehammer to a nail because he's just so upset about this. Yeah. And we've got to calm ourselves before we address the situation. So let's tackle it from two ends. Let's pretend that they're doing what a lot of people do, which is putting the bills on. I would sit down with her and say, we've been doing this system and I just don't think it's sustainable. I don't like the way it feels. Let's just go to a debit card system. Let's use our paycheck. Let's use every dollar. Let's make a budget. That would make me feel a lot better and see what she says. Now, the extreme is if she is spending $8,000 to $10,000 willy-nilly on things that have nothing to do with the normal budget, now we probably need to sit down with a counselor because I think this is going to be a lot of work. This is marriage counseling material. Oftentimes, he hasn't really talked to her about what's going on and she might be depressed and retail therapy every day to feel something and get a dopamine hit. And so I want to get to the root of what's causing the spending, but not address it from a, you've been spending too much. Cash only. He needs to go first and say, I've done a bad job leading our household with money. I would love to get on the same page. Can we just do a financial reset? Let's have some stated goals. Let's get on a budget. And we'll include fun money for both of us to spend. So I'm giving you permission to spend versus restricting your spending, but we have to have a game plan for it. We can't just willy-nilly spend everything and hope we have enough left over. Yeah, that's a good point. They're able to out-earn the stupidity at this point, but at some point, his income might go down. Yes. He may not be able to keep this up forever. And so you want to make sure that you're living on way less than you make instead of riding it up to the line. Yeah, I agree. I also want to know what baby step they're on. There's much. I hear that. I would love to know. My hope is that they're debt-free with an emergency fund and he's investing, but they're just spending a whole lot. They could be doing better things with that. Yeah, it does point to another teaching, though, which is, guys, when you're married, obviously we believe that finances are best done together. But I do sometimes feel like that restriction, when you're beyond baby step two, you're beyond baby step three, you do need to make sure that you're putting a line item in the budget that you and your spouse both agree on. so that you can feel like you're enjoying the fruit of your labor and it's not just this un. just unending sacrifice, right? Because I do think that sometimes when people feel like that, they lash out and they do the most to try to, like, stake their claim, you know, in their own life. And they might decide, hey, you get $2,500 of fun money because we bring in $25,000. Yeah. And she goes, oh, okay, I can do that. Yeah. Then it's like, okay, there's parameters. I'm free to spend to use Rachel's. And we're sticking to debit cards. That's another thing we've got to agree on. Not cash. All right. Stephanie's in Grand Rapids up next. What's going on, Stephanie? Hi. I'm a stay-at-home mom with a little baby, and my husband is our primary income earner. I'm calling because I'm trying to get our family and solid financial ground, but I feel like we keep adding up in the same cycle. So we currently have about $45,000 in debt, $30,000 in loans, and $50,000 in credit card. And approximately 95% of our debt has come from my husband's spending. I have organized our finances, created budgets, and paid off his credit card like three times. But the debt keeps coming back. So this month I discovered he has $50,000 in credit card debt. $50,000 just in credit card debt. Yes. What is he spending it on? I don't know. That's even scarier. I'd almost rather be a toy you can see in the driveway. I know. I know. I know how it sounds. How did you find out about it? Because we are getting into a house, and then I wanted to work out the numbers to see if we can make the payment. And then he told me about this debt. And I was like, what? So that's called lying, where I'm from. Yeah, maybe called it like that, or hiding it through. Same thing? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was he remorseful? Yeah. Like, what was his reaction when he was like, oh, yeah, by the way, before you go apply for that mortgage, you should probably know I have $50,000 in credit card debt? Did you ask to see the statements? No, I did not, because he didn't lend me access to his account since the last time I was paying off their credit cards, because I would ask for every single payment, every single spend that I think that wasn't worth it. So I think that there's two layers of secrecy here. There's the layer of, I have this debt, I'm not going to tell you about it. And then there's another layer, which is I finally told you about the debt, but I'm still not going to reveal what it was spent on, because I don't want you to see the statements. Does that sit right with you? Because it doesn't sit right with me. Hmm. No, you're saying it. I didn't, I didn't, honestly, I didn't ask for the statement. Was he there when your child was born? Yes. Okay. So he can see that, but you can't see the credit card statements. That feels crazy to me. Like, if you guys are married, you're, you've become one. You've created children together. The fact that he, he is unwilling to show you where he went 50 grand into debt. That's very telling. That's a huge red flag. Or doesn't know, quote, I don't know what I spent it on. That's, that's problematic. Well, there is a part of, of that debt that comes from his job. So sometimes, sometimes when he travels, he has to pay for all the expenses of his travel. And then his company reimbursed him. Yeah. So why didn't they reimburse him the 50? It sounds like he's not applying it to the debt. Even if he is getting reimbursed. That sounds true. And they should be giving him a card. He doesn't need to be going into debt for this company. Yes. I know that because I used to work in a company that they pay for everything. Or they give me, I mean, they deposit in my account before I travel. How much does he earn a month? How much does he bring home? Honestly, I don't know the amount now, but I know that he brings home after taxes and health insurance. And one thousand and one thousand seven hundred retirement contribution. He brings seven thousand three hundred a month. Okay. Seven thousand three hundred. Okay. We have saved being for now six thousand two hundred. And in account investment, six thousand nine hundred. And I have in a stash account, thirty four thousand. Oh, wow. And he has in his retirement account, retirement account, sixty thousand. Okay. Okay. But you guys. You guys are trying to buy a house right now? Yes. It's an opportunity that his mom gave us. It's a big house and it's under the market value. But you guys can't afford a house right now. You got fifty thousand dollars in credit card debt. Well, and there's these crazy trust issues that are sitting here, too. It's not a time to tie yourself to a home, even if it's a great opportunity. There's no good opportunities when you're drowning in the water. And so we got to solve that problem first, get to shore before we can build our sink. So you guys have a lot ahead of you. I'd be going to counseling, getting to the bottom of it. And you're going to need to figure out if he's actually willing to change his life for the sake of his family. Listen up. If someone you love owns a business, you've seen how much work it can be. The late nights, the weekends that disappear, you can't put in the hours for them, but you can point them to something that can actually move the needle. The free Entree Leadership Newsletter gives business owners practical strategies to grow their business and their leadership in just six minutes a week. They'll get expert advice and real-life tools they can put to work right away. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash business owner or share the link in the show notes. dr john deloney's new book building the marriage you want is now available for pre-order and here's the thing we get a lot of calls in this show and at some point it usually involves marriage sometimes more than it does money and a lot of this stems from people getting married not being on the same page they end up becoming roommates and life gets full and one day you look up and you realize what happened who am i married to and that's why john wrote this book he explains why marriage can feel so hard, why yours still matters, and what you can do to make it great. And he gives couples practical tools to reconnect and build a stronger marriage. So you can pre-order now for $24.99 and lock in over a hundred bucks in free bonus items, including the audio book, the ebook delivered early, and an exclusive video from John. Go get your copy now at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. Brian is in Los Angeles up next. Brian, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you guys for taking my call. I appreciate it. How can we help? So my question is, me and my wife are looking for the best way to teach our kids to build credit in preparation for a home buying without going the credit card route, as that seems to be what's pushed the most in their econ classes in high school and things of that nature. So just wondering if there's different options. Well, you're right in that this is peddled to kids in an early age and what sets them on a path as like a gateway drug to going into debt because they're convinced the only way to get a good credit score and that they need one is by going into debt, staying in debt to get a good score, to get more debt. And so our curriculum that we actually have in high schools all over America is obviously not teaching kids that. We're trying to show them a different path. So, number one, tell your school to get a different curriculum. Number two, do you believe that they need a credit score? No. So in here where we struggle, we fell, we, we walk that path at a very early age and, and it, it worked out for us, but we were very disciplined. And I, so I don't necessarily know what else to teach them. We're very open with money conversations. We believe your guys' method in life now that we have got to the other side. But we talk a lot with our kids. They're very, very knowledgeable when it comes to money. 16th and 17th. Perfect. You mentioned specifically helping them build a credit score for a house. Would you oppose to just teach them about manual underwriting? That way they wouldn't need the credit score? So that's exactly what I'm talking about. I have no idea what you just said. Okay, great. I love that. So I'm glad we brought this up. so most people when you think about building credit they're thinking about a couple of key purchases they're thinking about buying a car they're thinking about an apartment or you know buying a house those are kind of the three things that it kind of pops up for it feeling necessary and to george's point you do you learn that in the media and the media makes you feel like it is a necessity there's no other way to buy a house there's no other way to buy a car but the truth is that's that's false that's not true and the reason it's advertised that way is because well banks are advertising that and it's advantageous for you to have a credit score for banks. So it makes sense that they would talk about that, but then you have to think your purchasing power. to say hey does this person have trade lines are they paying things like their utilities on time their cell phone bills on time do they have renting history can we look back and see that they've paid their rent on time for a certain period of time can we look back and see what their pay stubs say can we make sure that they've do you see what i'm saying so it's just an old school way an analog way in many ways of looking at whether somebody is good with money it's not just a generated credit score a generated algorithm which has only existed since the 90s and people bought houses before then somehow and it was through that method where someone actually looked at the paperwork and decided okay you get the loan and so it's a simple process i've done it jade's done it uh so we're not we're not special in that regard people do this all day but most people wouldn't even know it exists unless you told them about it because they're just going down the same path same thing for apartments they're gonna go well i need a credit score to get an apartment they're gonna check my credit score okay what they're checking for is a bad credit score when they see their credit score they're gonna go well i need a credit score to get an apartment there is no credit score they might require a higher deposit that's about it they're mostly checking to see if you're a criminal and if you have a bunch of delinquencies and so that's another fallacy actually negotiate not negotiate but they can actually tell the bank or whoever they go to get a loan from in regards to because like i said we don't do car loans we don't do none of that stuff with them they're very aware that that's you know like i said it's just this home purchase hurdle of you're going to be an adult in six months and you've got a real short window at home and you're going to be an adult in six months and you've got a real short window at home so we need to make the steps worth it and so you can simply talk to the loan officer you know and actually have that maybe it would be an argument i guess and just say look i'm not it's not even an argument well you got to go to the right lender because not all lenders do this and so we've had churchill mortgage as a partner now for many decades and they specialize in these no score loans because we send our fans there and so and there's other lenders that do it they're not the only ones in the world to do it but if you just went to any old lender and said i don't have a credit score they want to know what the credit score is and they're not the only ones to do it they want to make their lives easy so they're going to say well go open it have your kid open a credit card go put gas and whatever on it and then come back to us in a year okay so there are banks or or 100 will allow that okay awesome that's no because you get that from your normal lenders oh you know like the same stuff that it's like you got to unwind everything they learn at school every time at the dinner table so yeah just write down write down manual underwriting churchill mortgage start there and to george's point there's plenty of other places that offer that as well so i'm going to go to churchill mortgage and i'm going to go to churchill mortgage as well so it's not like they're the only ones in the book but they are the ones that we recommend and it's the one that i used and that george used and that we've all used um and then the next part and i really want you to grab hold of this is a zero credit score or an undeterminable credit score is just as good as what anybody would call a good credit score it gets you just as much right so obviously a bad credit score we don't want that but if you if you don't borrow money your credit score is indeterminable it doesn't exist and so if somebody sees that that's just as good as somebody who has i don't know if you've ever seen a credit score that's just as good as somebody who has i don't know a 750 score it just means that you don't borrow money bad rates or anything like that they don't reassess it as if it's bad credit no no i'll be i'll be flat out honest with you you might go some places where the people are idiots and they're just running an algorithm and if the algorithm doesn't show a credit score they'll just in their mind go well that means i got a bad credit score and there's you know they'll they'll not want to move forward so for instance you go to get an apartment you go into the leasing office and there are a and you kind of preempt it by saying hey i've never borrowed money but here's my trade lines here's where i paid my rent on time here's this i'm just looking for an apartment and they might give you a little bit of run around maybe you have to put first and last month's rent down or do something to kind of prove yourself i actually did this live on my youtube channel brian you can go have your kids watch this for fun but i called random apartments all over the country called landlords that owned property and i asked them hey i don't have a credit score can i rent with you and almost every single one said the same thing well as long as the credit score is background check clears you're not a criminal and i see a proof of income and you can pay a higher deposit sure and so that was really the end of it and most people would say well you can never rent because one time someone said and so you don't want to go off of that and i'll send you my book are your kids readers they like audiobooks they like to read physical books where are they at yeah no they're probably more audiobooks we're not we're not strong reading okay so in the car would you guys listen to my audiobook in the car and just even listen to the credit scores and including manual underwriting including how to rent without a score do all these things without a score and how to buck the system so i'll get that uh as soon as you're off the phone our phone screen will pick up we'll make sure you guys get that audiobook on the house to uh walk through the kids with that if they get this now they're going to be multi-millionaires and never stress about money they'll probably pay cash for their homes 14 years from now well they can't live at home that long so we got exactly well they can rent for a while even without a credit score but it's a question and you're a great dad for wanting them to not go on the same path as everyone else and i just love that you're open-minded no i i appreciate that and you guys are awesome i know i listen to you every day so it's it's a huge help so the kids do too and like i said we're just that was a one little hurdle question but i couldn't find a great answer for them for i love it man the kids are going to be all right if we have dads like brian in the world going hey maybe this path that all these kids are going down and then they end up in debt and miserable and stressed and frustrated feeling lied to maybe there's a different path there's always another way you got to look where the money points to if the money points to a bank then chances are there's an option out there where they don't benefit that's why they're not talking about the banks are funding half of the curriculums in schools because they're like sweet more victims in the future if we can get them trained on going into more and more debt it's the american way it's normal normal's broke don't be normal people ask me all the time george what's your number one money saving hack i'm glad you asked nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend so here's the hack get on a budget seriously how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place and that's what makes the every dollar budgeting app a game changer with every dollar you'll get a clear picture of your spending and from there it's easy to see where you can get more intentional cut back and save more money how much money are we talking well the average every dollar budgeter frees up 395 dollars in their very first budget and if you ask me i think you're way above average so why are you still listening to me go download every dollar for free and start saving more money right now it's time for our scripture and quote of the day jeremiah 32 17 oh sovereign lord you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power an outstretched arm nothing is too hard for you chuck swindle said we are all faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations that's so good that'll preach jose is in dallas up next what's going on jose hi everyone thank you for taking my call um my question is uh should uh me and my wife take unpaid vacation for honeymoon and i can give a little bit of context uh if time allows sure okay so how much time are you taking off uh it's gonna be 10 business days total two weeks uh and only five days will be unpaid uh so it's you know just one week uh in march this year i was working at a company where i was making 62 and my wife was making around 48 uh per year and then i was looking for a race at that company in a promotion since i was a junior analyst uh so the promotion didn't happen and i started looking but before that uh since we had the wedding plan and everything i spoke with uh with my wife and she said uh you know we spoke about if if i found a job that you know late on the year and i was not going to be able to accrue enough vacation should we just hold off on the honeymoon and it's already booked and paid for travel it is kinda it is um we still have we have the flights there the flights back uh but not hotels and tours but at least the flights are ready do you guys have any money saved any cash oh yeah yeah yes what do you have we do we have 52 000 saved and uh just to keep going on the context after leaving the company that i was uh beginning of the year i got a job making instead of 62 i got a raise to 80 at the new company but then i kept looking and then the company that i just started last month i'm making 109 jose jose i gotta tell you man the five days off it's not a problem i feel like i feel like you're you have more to say about your career path in that track but the five days off come on you got 52 000 saved you're making over 100k she's making a salary where's the problem are you that much of a tightwad no i'm not the one and that and that is the question that i have we both uh you bring like 170 because she also got a raise this year in september so like everything worked out perfectly i I spoke with my new manager, she said it's time off, is, is, um, approved, but, uh, you will have to take, you know, whatever you accrue from, from now on to December, you'll take it. And then the rest just unpaid. And then when I had that conversation with my wife, uh, she was like, no, no, no, no, no. Cause I'm not going to feel comfortable, you know, knowing that we're going to miss, uh, you know, after taxes and, and benefits and my retirement, my paycheck is, uh, like 3,500. You're going to miss a partial paycheck. Will any bills go unpaid if you take this trip? No, no, no, no, no, no, nothing. So what's the fear? She's just, she's being a tightwad. Yes, exactly. And I really appreciate that, uh, from her because actually when we met three years ago, I had a lot of debt and she pushed me, you know, into knocking all that off. And, and I admire her for that. For, for discipline and, and all that. But right now that we are in such a better position compared to two or three years ago. Yeah. You guys have no debt. You got $52,000 saved and you make 170 grand. And this is not just some random vacation. This is your honeymoon for crying out loud. You only get one. Jose, what's her name? And if you don't want to say it, make up a name. Uh, Jose Martinez. No. What's your wife's name? Diana Chacon. Diana. Diana. You got to go on the honeymoon, mama. Like this. This is the time you've earned it. You got to put this on Facebook so she sees. Oh, it'll be on the internet forever. Don't worry. Attention, Diana. This is Jade speaking. I'm telling you, go on the honeymoon, ma'am. You've earned it. You will not regret it. You're not going to look back 10 years from now and say, we could have had an extra thousand bucks if you just had gone to work. No, you'll look back and go, I can't believe we didn't take a honeymoon. Once life is crazy and you got three little kids running around, you're going to go, man, remember when we took that honeymoon, we could have extended it by another week and we didn't. Gosh. That would have been nice. Enjoy it, man. You guys have earned it. Enjoy it. If you were like super broke and this paycheck was going to mean the difference between you covering bills and not, I'd say let's not take it. Yeah, but even still, I'd be like, go somewhere for the weekend. Like, go to the Best Western. Go anywhere. Well, maybe not the Best Western, but go anywhere. Man, Best Western catching strays out here. All right. Depends on which one. Alex is in Detroit up next. What's going on, Alex? Hi, thanks for taking my call. My wife and I are having our first kid next year, which by the time the kid's born, we'll be on baby steps four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, five, and six. Love it. So my question, as this has started turning the gears in my head, is a 529 plan the best investment vehicle for saving for school? Or is there a better way to go about it? Because there's obviously concerns of if they don't go to school or want secondary education, what would that be used for? Well, I'll tell you what I do in my family. I save in a 529 plan myself for my kids. I've got a three-year-old and a one-year-old. Now, I set goals for my kids. I set goals for my kids. I set goals there, and I understand I may not need all of that money. The good news is there's about 1,000 things you can do with that money if there's any left over. You can change the beneficiary at any time. So if someone in the family wants to go, or even distant family, a niece, a grandkid, you can always change the beneficiary there. You can now roll up to $35,000 over time into Roth IRAs, which is also fantastic. And there is a penalty if you take the money out for something that's not education-related, but that's like a worst-case escape hatch scenario. You pay 10% to get that money out. So I still fund that. If you want to fund something outside of that and on top of that, you could put money into a taxable brokerage account in your name. That's what I do for my kids to cover things like a wedding, a car, a down payment on a house to help them launch their adult life. I think the fair thing to think about is just not overfunding it and do a little bit of homework on the front end and go, what do I think it's going to cost me? And then watch the kids and see what they're turning into. If you're getting to high school and you're getting the vibe like this person's going to be more of a trade school or this person's going to be more entrepreneurial, you can start to pump the brakes or pull back. And what if one wants to go to med school? Then you're going to go, man, I wish I funded it more. So I'd rather slightly overfund it than way underfund it or go, well, they probably won't go to school. I have a hunch that in the future, education will still be very important. It might be the trades, it might be certificate programs, but the good news is the 529 plan can cover all of that. And so it's going to be flexible in ways. And what it can cover, even K through 12, it can cover a portion of that. And so there's a lot of things it can do, and the tax advantages are too good to pass up. And so for that reason, I would set a goal that might be for you guys, hey, the kid's a newborn, we could put 250 bucks away a month for this kid and have enough. And then we can cash flow any gaps, or they might get scholarships or work part-time. So there's a lot of options there, but I don't like the idea of just ignoring it completely because we don't know what the future looks like. Okay. That was kind of my thinking as well, and I didn't know. I knew about the IRA rollovers. I just know that with the way that we're probably going to end up raising our children is teaching them that a four-year degree isn't necessarily a golden ticket, and they need to do what calls for them and what they want to do. Amen. I just know there's a $1.7 trillion student loan crisis, and I don't want my kids to be a part of that. And so I'd rather have the money and not need it than not have the money. And now I'm taking on parent plus loans, or they're getting loans because they're getting loans because they want to go to some random school. I want to be able to let them live their dream. And if that means covering a nice, expensive private school with no scholarships, I want to be able to do that. Yeah. We're going to definitely want to get the full 18 years of compound growth, but I just wasn't sure if the 529 is the best way to go about it, or if just a traditional brokerage, or what the best way is. I do both. And on top of that, you're going to be able to access the Trump account with a free thousand bucks. Yeah. I completely forgot about that. There's a little bonus. You're setting your kids up for retirement already as well. So I do all three personally, but I focus my priority on the 529 plan, then the taxable brokerage account for those sort of launch adult gifts, and then the retirement account if there's extra. Because that's a nice bonus. But I'm far less worried about my kids' retirement at 60 than I am about them going to school at 18 and cash flowing it. Yeah. I mean, if you look at, I mean, I know the numbers have the ability to inflate greatly, but if you look at what it's going to cost to send your kids to school at 18, send your kid to a reasonable state school, and then you think about, hey, I have 35,000 that I can transfer into a Roth IRA, it's pretty easy to stay within that limit and make sure there's money there, but also know, hey, a good portion of this could go towards retirement if I wanted it to. And if there's a little leftover, gosh, send it over to the next generation. We get far more calls with people going into student loan debt than we do, I overfunded my kids' 529 plan. Good question. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.