Hebrewl Talk Podcast subscribers, here's the scoop. You know David Parker, the driving force behind Alberta's biggest ever data breach, not only is he refusing to cooperate with the investigation from election's Alberta, but he won't even sign what's called a statutory declaration to respect the cease and desist, sent to him by the chief electoral officer. In other words, he won't even agree to stop breaking the law. In this episode of the show, a must listen, I would say, we connect with three of the political science professors, nearly 40 of them in total, that signed their name to an open letter demanding a public inquiry. Real talk is we're keeping the conversation going on an issue incredibly important to our home province of Alberta, but an issue, a story that Canadians are paying attention to from coast to coast to coast. And that is not just the leak of Alberta's sensitive data, the Alberta electors list, but also the follow the investigation into the leak, which is running into a pretty significant roadblock being reported. You may have heard of the past number of hours that, well, geez, I just caught myself there for a second, real talkers. I almost said separatist leader, David Parker, but as you would quick correct me, I'm sure there is no separatist leader. That's actually part of the issue in Alberta. Nobody really knows who's in charge of the movement to try to tear Canada apart. We do know that David Parker is the leader of a group called Take Back Alberta. We do know that David Parker is deeply involved with the Centurion project, and we do know that the Centurion project procured the Alberta electors list when they were not allowed to have it in lay person's terms and made it available to the public. Well, David Parker is now telling investigators that he will not cooperate with an investigation into the data breach. He's also refusing to sign what's called a statutory declaration confirming that he will respect the, well, basically the big boss at elections Alberta. This is Alberta's chief electoral officer, Gordon McClure's cease and desist. David Parker's basically saying he will not agree to continue or to cease sharing that list. David Parker is saying, I do not agree with the cease and desist. I will not respect a cease and desist to immediately stop distributing the list that I'm not allowed to have. And he's not cooperating with the investigation in the first place. Now that may not surprise many of you, but for all of you, the question remains, what does this mean? Where is this all going in a special edition of today's show and impromptu real talk round table. And three Alberta academics who signed their name to a list, nearly 40 deep, calling for a public inquiry into this situation. It is safe to say that real talkers have rarely rallied like they are rallying right now around a specific issue. We're receiving emails on mass social media contents, dozens and dozens and dozens in every single episode. If not thousands of engagements with every single social media post, put simply you care deeply about this. And we're going to stick with it because we believe that this story has incredible importance right now and will continue to have significance for years to come. Now if you're listening to the podcast later, thank you for that. Thanks to our subscribers. You can always leave a comment on Spotify episodes and you can definitely always send this email to
[email protected]. In this episode, we'll be looking to our live chat powered by park power for what audience members have to say when we connect with Dr. Jared Wesley, Dr. Melanie Thomas and Professor Laurie Williams. That's coming up in 30 seconds before we get there, a celebration of sorts, a good news story in Alberta from our friends at Hanson Distillery. I want to direct you to a photo that they posted on their Instagram account just a short time ago. Absolutely love this. This is Cass. This is their assistant distiller Cassidy over at Hanson Distillery. You know Edmonton's original distillery and she is proudly holding up as you can see a bottle of her brand new distilled by her gin. This is Cassidy's rules, Cassidy's palette, Cassidy's way, fresh strawberry, bright grapefruit, rose petals, chamomile and a long warm finish of spice and garden herbs. This is a beautiful gin for summer. This is a perfect patio gym. It's bold, it's jammy, it's floral and it's completely unapologetic. Now we were telling you all about this before Mother's Day. But our friends at Hanson have released another special detail about this gin and I love it. Cass intentionally made the alcohol percentage in her new creation, 44.4%. You know why? And every woman needs a little extra protection. Says the assistant distiller at Hanson Distillery. How cool is that? When they found that they did the final bottle count as well, you never know when you're distilling, when you're getting your gin in this case to a certain alcohol percentage, how many bottles you're going to get out of there, right? Well, you're about to get chills. Guess how many bottles they got? Exactly 444. If that's not a sign that this is something special, I don't know what is. You can pick up your bottle or your case of distilled by her gin at the distillery. If you're anywhere near the Metro Edmonton region, I encourage you to pop into Hanson. They've done a beautiful job there. Just North and Mercedes-Benz Edmonton West on 174th Street, 111th Avenue. Of course, you can always find them online at Hansondistillery.com. And I encourage you, the next time you're in your favorite liquor store, where they're offering up fine Alberta spirits, you make sure you ask for Hanson distilled by her. Learn more at Hansondistillery.com. As we welcome back to the Real Talk Studio in the historic Mercer warehouse, he's a professor of political science at the University of Alberta. I'll get you to throw the headphones on because we want you to hear your colleagues here in just a second. Dr. Jared Wesley, it's not been too long since you were last here. As a matter of fact, just a number of days ago, but we had to tap you on the shoulder. As we saw your name, a top and open letter, your signature kind of leading the charge. So welcome back, I guess, on short notice. The typical time hasn't passed, but these aren't typical times. No, and I'd love to say it's great to see you again, Ryan. But it just keeps seems to be getting worse and worse. Last time we talked about Jerry Mandarin, and now we're talking about the largest privacy breach in Alberta history. I don't want to see you again for a while. Yes. I don't take any offense. We should probably remind ourselves that the stories around allegations of Jerry Mandarin are still relevant. And this is still happening. We've just shifted our focus briefly to what we're talking about now. And I suppose it sort of feels like in case of emergency brake glass, that's what we're doing right now is we're breaking the glass. Well, all of them are tied together. It's around this notion that certain folks no longer want to play by the rules. Rules and laws and norms that have been around for generations and one group of people who tend to be connected with the separatist movement, just simply don't respect them. Okay. Well, nearly 40 Alberta academics have signed their names to an open letter. I want to welcome, you know, we wish we could have 38 or 40 people on the show today. We can have three. And so we'll welcome back to the show a political science professor out of the University of Calgary, Dr. Melanie Thomas and an associate professor of political science at Mount Royal University, also down in Calgary professor Lori Williams. Good morning to both of you. Thank you so much for making time for us today. Professor Williams, you sign your name to this open letter calling for a public inquiry into this situation. I'm sure that that's something you put some consideration into before putting your name out there to be to be criticized, to be roasted and whatever else comes along with it. By the conviction. Well, first of all, I want to say that, you know, I'm amongst all of those other folks that are concerned about their names and addresses being available to align actors within and outside the province going forward. I knew that adding my name to this list could increase the amount of negative feedback that I got that has be considered carefully as well. But this is extraordinarily important precisely because of the vulnerability this now exposes all of those nearly 3 million people to this can include domestic abuse survivors, judges, lawyers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, police officers, anyone who wants to speak out about the separatism issue in Alberta now potentially could be found by somebody who's perhaps more enthusiastic than others. And we've seen online lots of threats being made against various people. We've seen live searches allegedly of two former premieres, the premieres who had to have increased security details while they were, premier and the cavalier approach that's been taken to the privacy, the safety and security of these Albertans and the dismissal of it is you know,
something like making a phone book available. Again, Illustrates, what Jared was just saying, that this is something that highlights the laxity of the laws, the relaxation of the laws that have occurred recently. It's made it harder to investigate this, and of course, because of those difficulties in investigation, the limitations on elections, Alberta, on the privacy commissioner, they can't subject political parties to investigations, the length of time, and the kind of fault that needs to be found by the RCMP. For all these reasons, we agree that the way to get to the bottom of this is a careful and swift investigation that has the powers that a public inquiry uniquely has. - Yeah, I'll note that the difference, I guess, between docs or ripped online, when your name has been released surreptitiously without your consent versus choosing to put your name onto an open letter as an entirely different circumstance, right? - Oh, absolutely, and of course, we've always a careful consideration. I'm sure I can speak with all of those who have their name on the letter, and we had a fair bit of backing and forething online to make sure that we all agreed on that wording and we're comfortable with the wording in what most they was drafted by Jared, and we're grateful to him for his leadership on this, but he's identified exactly what the concerns are, and in times like this, people need to stand up to be counted, and if that doesn't tell some risk, then those who have expertise knowledge, sort of a bigger context to put this in to help explain how serious it is, if that can make a difference, then it's worth the risk. - Dr. Thomas, was, does that, what Professor Williams is describing, did you go through that similar thought process, the pros, the cons, and ultimately, if you could maybe shine some light on why you decided to put your name to this list, and invite the smoke, invite the heat, so to speak? - So at the risk of being cavalier, I moved between when the most recent voters list was out, and so it doesn't have my current address, and so that's not insignificant, but I have to say, I take, when I'm looking, I see all of this stuff as a system, and for me, I am now at the point where I think, there are lots of sensible folks in Alberta who are being very quiet about things that we know are wrong. Like it's not just stuff that we've got a values difference. It's not just, I don't think I would do it that way. I think what we're actually seeing is like a series of things, we're just kind of like, that's actually wrong. The more you do stuff like this, the more you are throwing away a democracy, the more you're throwing away the entire project. And so for me, I'm looking for the places and the folks that are taking a sand to say, we're not doing politics like this anymore. And so to connect this to what my colleague was saying, particularly with threats of violence and things, I mean, we get that because that's an extreme reaction to people who think that folks like us ought not to exist, right? And so we get this because there are folks who are going to say that women shouldn't be in intellectual jobs, or somebody on a different side of a political spectrum shouldn't be allowed to have expertise and then teach people the expertise that they have, right? Or it's, I mean, it fits into these ideas of like social dominance orientation. So a different set of rules for me, but because I don't think that you're as good as me, you need to be down under my thumb. And so when I listen to, say Mr. Parker, say that he's not, he's flouting the entire legal structure on this, I see lots of social dominance orientation, different rules for him, but the rest of us, especially because like what he, it's very clear that like for individuals like him, the preferences are for what they want and the rest of us be damned. And the thing is like, this is not the first time we've seen politics like this, but lots of people put a lot of effort in to making sure that that's not the politics that we, that we have as like a matter of routine. And so one of the things I tell my students is that your commitment to rights only goes so far as what you would extend to people that you really dislike, maybe even hate. And so for me, part of me is like, that's the rule of law though. So like the law has to apply, and like so the criminal justice system has to apply equally to everyone, rights have to apply to everyone as well. And so when I see somebody that says, I have the right to do things with everybody else's information that nobody else gets to, and I shouldn't be able to do that either, but expletives the law, I'm just gonna keep doing it as well. I'm watching and waiting and trying to find, I mean, here's the thing, I will, I'll end on this, my biggest frustration, 'cause I know the chief electoral officer has come out and said, actually I don't think the public inquiry is necessary, and part of me is like, cool, but I'm not hearing like the RCMP, like the head of the RCMP saying, for all the Albertans that have their information exposed, these are the steps that you can take to protect yourselves. This is the scale of the investigation. Like, and so the chief electoral officer is free to say things like, we want to let the legal process run, and part of me is like, I need these legal institutions to do what our representative authorities should also do, which is actually like the individuals in them need to stand up and start leading and doing their jobs, and telling us what they're doing, because in the absence, like the longer folks are quiet, the more we get the memo that maybe this isn't actually so bad or, and I mean, Ryan, you say it yourself in your introduction, there's nothing we can do about it. There is a list of stuff that we can do about this, and like as regular folks, you can be like, we're not gonna take it, we're not doing politics this way, like a full-scale projection of all of that. But also the people who are ostensibly leading us in institutions that are there to help facilitate that kind of leadership, they also need to stand up and like tell us what they are doing, and the responsibility and the accountability is to flow. - Okay, I wanna recognize that you've opened a couple of cans that we need to get to. I really wanna touch on David Parker's refusal to cooperate here. I'm not surprised, but I do think we need to talk about it, and I definitely wanna talk about the public inquiry, but Dr. Thomas, you've just brought up a very interesting point about the response of government and the tone that's being set. And I think that that comes from the top, and so I'm curious for the three of your assessment of how the UCP led by Premier Daniel Smith has responded to this. After our time with you today, I'm gonna get into a bunch of emails from real talkers. And they're calling out specific ministries, a very interesting email here from Lindsay about the Minister of Status of Women. I wanna get to that in a minute. But what's your assessment, Dr. Wesley, of how the UCP's managing this? It's always easy for politicians, in particular when there's a police investigation to say, I'm not gonna interfere with it, I'm gonna stay at arms length, and I'll comment after the fact. It's convenient, but that's not always the right move. - No, and if the scandal is as bad as everyone thinks it is, then that leader usually pays the price. So the example I'm thinking of here is John Cretian, when the auditor general back in 2002 revealed that there was back to sponsorship scandal or ad scam, the RCMP started the investigation and like any good Canadian, John Cretian regged the puck for as long as he could. His party said enough is enough, they ousted him, and it wasn't until the next leader, Paul Martin stepped in, that they called an inquiry. Interesting though, the gomery case has a lot of lessons for us, I hear the premier saying, it's not wise to have multiple investigations going on at the same time, gomery shows that it can happen and they can be mutually reinforcing, and that's not a bad thing. There are certain things that people will say behind closed doors that they don't wanna say in front of cameras or in front of microphones, but there are also things that people would like to say publicly that they won't say behind closed doors for fear of retribution and mystery around what they might have said and what they said to whom and when, right? And so I think there's a whole bunch of reasons why we should have concurrent investigations because each of them has their own mandates, their own powers, and each of them will compel different types of evidence. - Got an interesting comment here. Less is watching our livestream presented by California Clause, as you can get a free consultation today at
[email protected]. Less says, David Parker is not obligated to participate in an investigation against himself. He has the right to remain silent. They have to prove that you're guilty and any lawyer would advise him to not cooperate. Professor Williams, what's your assessment of that? He's not wrong. - Well, the right to remain silent is one thing. The obligation to provide records of information that could help this investigation is something that you would think he would want to clear the air and cooperate with. And this sort of seeks back to Jared's point that we're seeing in the legislature, the premier somehow suggesting that the NDP should have informed the legislature as well as the RCMP about this meeting that one of her staffers was in attendance at. This somehow or another, this is the responsibility of other people. And I am a bit concerned about the,
evasion of responsibility that appears to be happening here. And I think that might be a problem amongst Albertans. It might be the sort of thing that adds to the list of questions about democratic accountability that people may look at. And we've seen a number of things happen under this government, an ethics commissioner that found that the premier had violated free and racial privacy rules or conflict of interest rules was not her contract was not renewed. As Marguerite Trussler, the chief electoral officer, didn't have his-- the previous one didn't have his contract renewed. We had five AHSC-03 chief medical officers of health, two AHSC boards, changing the rules with respect to elections and referendums and so forth to move things in a direction that the government wants to do. Melanie spoke a moment ago about the importance of the rule of law following the rules. And if changes are needed in order to provide greater transparency and accountability, that's fine. But that's not what we're seeing happening in this government. And I think the frustration with this government's transparency and accountability issues and the series of things that they just mentioned, the criticism of judges and any critics, I think all of that raises serious questions. And now we're looking at a population who are themselves feeling anxiety and anger about their personal information being collected and then made available to whoever might have had access to this app and the information in the weeks that it took to expose this and begin the investigations. I think a lot of people are looking for much quicker answers and you put together what David Parker is now saying that he will not cooperate with the investigation with what he said initially about this, that it wasn't anything. It was no big violation of rules. It wasn't going to hurt anybody. That again, the rules don't really apply to him. That kind of attitude, I think, is damaging not just the project that he or projects to these associated with take back Alberta and the Centurion Project. I think it's hurting the separatists, generally speaking, because if these are the kinds of leaders, the ones that think different rules for themselves and for others to apply, it hurts both them and I think it hurts the government to the degree that they're associated with some of these activities. Well, and this is a pattern. This is in the first time Mr. Parker has run a foul of election law previously. And to this day, he refuses to disclose his donors list, even though he's been asked some might say compelled to do so because he was advertising during the last provincial election. And this is the thing about accountability, right? We have certain processes that can only take us so far. Cam Davies, who's also at the center of this, ran a foul of-- - Republican Party, Valberta. - Yeah, I mean, when he was with the UCP, ran a Kamikaze campaign in tandem with Jason Kenney, was apparently held accountable for those transgressions, but skates away and ends up with the electors list, both of these folks do. So it's one thing I think for David Parker to escape accountability by issuing letters and sending behind closed doors and refusing to talk. And that's one thing. Public inquiry forces him to get in front of a microphone and explain himself. - We may have some light shed upon David Parker's perspective on elections, Valberta, referencing an April 18th tweet from his account on X quote, I'm showing it now, "Elections, Valberta, is an evil institution that is used to suppress democracy. I will not rest until everyone responsible for the law fair being waged out of that den of evil are brought to justice." Dr. Thomas, your look is worth a thousand words. - I mean, okay, so like at the risk of getting like a flood of nonsense in my inbox, can we talk about how ridiculous that statement is as well as the viewer comment? Like to go back to the comment, like let's be clear folks. The lawyers that advise you not to talk to people who are trying to like apply the law or criminal defense attorneys and they do that when you've done something that will probably get you clocked for breaking the law. So like this kind of like any good lawyer whose worth their salt would tell you to never talk to the talk to an investigation, this is not the flex that like folks think that it is. It means that your lawyer knows that you've done some things that are probably going to get you clocked with some criminal charges where you might end up in front of a judge and might actually have some accountability applied to you. So like let's not pretend that flex is a flex, okay? And then for Mr. Parker, it's just kind of like cool. So we care about justice. What kind of justice? Our justice system is predicated on constitutional supremacy, which includes things like the charter of rights and freedoms, which includes things like section three, which is the inalienable right to vote. And the way that you do that is through a rigorous, independent, well funded, able to actually enforce its own rules, elections, administrations, body. Like this is not, these are not insights that are like hard to find. These are sorts of things that are established globally with like deep threads of research where people like practice doing these sorts of things like in war zones and various sorts of things. Though when Mr. Parker talks about justice, and at this point, I might actually go so far as to say when the premier of Alberta talks about these sorts of things too, like it's not for us as Albertans. It's for someone, but it's not for most of us. And it's not for like the project that is like this place where all of us happen to live, where we have to like operate in a good way, in a good governance kind of way. And so like it's very clear here that like full care about justice, even Mr. Parker cares about justice. He just has a pretty perverted way of understanding what that justice is. But like part of me is like he doesn't get to decide. Like this is ours, it's our collective. And when individual doesn't get to say, actually no, I don't think that that's the way that it's going to be. So the idea that this is law fair, like it sounds very immature to me as well. This idea that like I get to do whatever I want. And I'm going to pitch a fit when I've actually broken the rules that everybody else is supposed to follow. Like I'm just so unimpressed by it all. And I have no patience for it. But like again, I will go back to the like, if you're in trouble with the law and your criminal defense attorney tells you to not talk to the cops, you're still participating. They're just you're just in the middle of the process. Getting them like saying, sorry, officer, I'm just not going to answer your question. Like that means you've done something that you shouldn't have done. Come on folks, this is, I understand that like, people are like, raw, raw, like let's stick it to the fence or let's let I'm mad. And this is the way that I want to like show my protest or whatever. But I think people really need to stop and think for a minute about like what they're doing to their neighbors, what they're doing to the collective process because like I, I, I, I'm so profoundly frustrated with that kind of approach because it's just, it's visible on a pretty fundamental level. - You know, I was just going to say Ryan, you know, and it's, this isn't really a partisan issue. You can line up wherever you want on the separatism, federalism debate. I mean, it was one thing for us to marshal 40 academics to agree on anything, which if you ever been to a faculty meeting, that's almost impossible. There's always somebody gonna step out, right? But, but the fact that I woke up yesterday and found that I was agreeing with Corey Morgan of all people. - That's wild. I found, you know, that this, that what Mel and he's talking about, you know, it spans the political spectrum and says, you know, there are certain rules that we all need to play by. No, I know Corey Morgan who writes for the, for the Western standard is definitely doing it for partisan reasons. But nonetheless, I think that even he recognizes the blowback that comes from not playing by the rules and he's calling for a change in leadership to get away from that. - Yeah, I would say, I don't know that I'm prepared to give Corey Morgan a ton of credit on insisting that everybody's playing by the rules. I don't think that's what he's doing. I think Corey Morgan recognizes that if the Separatist movement was a boat, it was hit by a huge torpedo about nine days ago and it's been taking on water and it's losing much of any credibility that it had. And I think that Corey is trying to save the Separatist movement and recognizing that everybody's being looped up into one ball of ax here and it's doing serious damage. And so of course he's calling on them to cooperate but I don't think he's calling on them to cooperate in the same spirit that you and 37 are calling. But what he's getting at is what's at the heart of all of our democratic rules, norms and laws and that is public accountability. - Sure. - The only way that folks maintain decorum and respect each other in the ways that Melanie mentioned is if we stand up and hold them accountable when they don't. - Okay, this is Dr. Jared Wesley, that's hanging out with us in studio here in Edmonton, Professor Laurie Williams, Dr. Melanie Thomas, both joining us out of Calgary. Although Melanie, are you in Calgary? You, we need to talk, you have shown incredible commitment to this episode, navigating what sounds to me like a bit of a headache in your transport situation. So you're joining us on the road, aren't you? Well, I'm in the middle of rural Alberta because. the bearings in my front wheels and my car need to be replaced and finding a mechanic that will do it quickly because the one thing I didn't have access to is a press. Like they'll take you the next day on the farm or in the rural areas, but like even just trying to get somebody to like, I will look at your car and then tell you need to do like 16 things that you don't actually need to do. That takes like a month in in Calgary, so I'm out there. I go out there for my checkup. You're going to rural Alberta for your medical checkups. - Yeah, they're doing surgeries out there too. I get my throat surgery done. - Hey, real talkers, this is why you got to join the show. You're getting the inside scoop. Anyway, credit to you, Doc, for doing everything you can to be here with us today. The three of them joining us, of course, in our feature interview presented by Mercedes Benz Emitton West. I want to get to more of what real talkers have to say. There are questions around consequences. There are questions around how you can compel someone to cooperate. There are questions at the end of the day of like where could this go? And we'll go there with Professor Williams, Dr. Wesley, Dr. Thomas, coming up here on real talk. Real talkers in our live chat, of course, have a ton to say about this. Obviously, Alberta rancher says, if I wanted separatists to have my information, I would have signed the petition, right? Jim says the separatists know the loopholes. You know, Dwayne says, I'm an older voter here. Says I've seen it all for many years in Alberta. Many conservatives in particular, immune from consequences. Why do Albertans allow this? Justin says when the government chooses to stand up and make noise about what they choose, and then what they choose to remain silent on speaks volumes. He says, "Premier Smith and the UCP "are not governing for all Albertans and enough is enough. "Justins got a B in his bonnet for sure, "although that sounds a little bit glib, Justin. "That was not my intention. "It's serious business." You know, we'll be back with these three in just a second. 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We're hanging out with Dr. Jared Wesley, University of Alberta, Professor Lori Williams, Mount Royal University and Dr. Melanie Thomas out of the University of Calgary. I wanna read the three of you a quick email. Melanie will go to you first on this. This is from Graham. I love emails like this. He says, "Real talk I've written in before always asking. You keep my name anonymous 'cause I worked for the GOA." He's a government worker. He says, "But I don't any more. So I'm free to say whatever I want." Now that's music to our ears. So Graham says, "First thanks for the work real talk. "Does every day says I'm a former journalist, "former public servant, still a writer, "a keen interest in politics. "I have to give us this bouquet." He says, "I think your show does a better job "than any other media in really digging into political "and cultural stories. "Please keep it up. "Gram, we promise we will." He says, "Second," he says, "I'm listening to these episodes, "recent episodes during my morning dog walks." And he says, "I think there are two outstanding questions "about the voter list scandal." He says, "Number one, what's the penalty "for breaking a law like this?" He says, "I'm concerned it's only gonna amount to a fine." He says, "Nepharius actors factor these expenses "into their plans. "Break the law, pay the fine, carry on." He says, "I haven't heard anybody talking "about meaningful consequences." And two, he says, "I'm still unclear about who gets access "to this elector's list, this voter list." He says, "It can't just be political parties. "That would be unfair to independence. "Like, can anybody register to run "and then access the voter list?" Says, "Doesn't strike me that there's much security "in that system, which I'm sure will be a point made "in the legal defense of this breach." Like, how is what they did against the law anyway? That from Graham. Melanie, you wanna take it first? - Okay, I can speak a bit more in word details of some of the later questions. So, not everybody gets the list, and not everybody in a political party gets list as well. So, I mean, if you talk to people who are good at campaigning and running local elections, not even everybody there on the campaign has access to the list, you've got like two, maybe. And even if you've got people who are outdoor knocking and doing data entry in the light, they've got an interface in which they add in the data entry, but like very few people, even when they are authorized to have access to the list actually do. And so in that sense, because like most people seem to understand that this thing is precious and that we owe each other respect, this kind of information. I mean, I have to be really candid. Like many things that have been happening in politics lately, we're this is such an unprecedented breach, and it's such an egregious, unprecedented, lagrant violation of how the system is supposed to work, that I actually am not sure off the top of my head, what the penalties are, but I know what they are in general when it comes to serious violations of things like election law. Like it's go to jail. I mean, and so this is the thing, I can understand how people would be quite cavalier about fines, but again, I would go back to like, when your criminal defense attorney tells you to not participate in an investigation, it's because you've done something that could maybe send you to jail. And so for me, like I would need to check and apologies, I've got my parents' landline going in there. - We're putting you on the spot. But I see, but I see, Laurie, you raised your hand. Did you want to add to that? - And I had to look it up. I have to confess. I knew that the imprisonment as Melanie said and I find repossible, but the fine is up to $100,000. That's an administrative penalty. If they go to court and they're convicted in court, they're up to liable to imprisonment of up to a year and a fine of up to $100,000. - So part of me thinks, I mean, I guess I don't want to say I have lost faith in our judicial system, but rarely do you see someone receive a maximum penalty for something, but we're describing this. Dr. Thomas, I wrote this down. You just described this as an unprecedented and egregious data breach. I can't think of the last time that three million people got screwed over by one person's shadiness. I mean, if nothing qualifies, now I know that David Parker, I don't know him well, but I know that he would love to be led away in handcuffs and probably would love to be sentenced to a year in prison. If you look at the martyr,
narrative that it would set the table for, that it would pave the way for. It may also create some real like physical, actual societal instability in Alberta where somebody would be jailed over this. But where can you see it going? Well, I think he probably make the case to his followers that you ought to pony up and pay my $100,000 fine, which if we look at the amount of money that's being brought into the separatist movement right now from various sources, enabled by the way, by changes in campaign finance laws here in Alberta. It's not inconceivable that he could fundraise $100,000 to pay off that fine, and probably in addition to some legal fees. So I keep coming back to this. Yes, I think all of those tools of accountability should be applied. But at the end of the day, until he sets in front of a, like when was the last time you saw him actually sit down with a reporter, sit down and answer questions about any of this in a very public way. I don't think most Albertans would know him to pick him out of a line. And I also think most Albertans wouldn't know what he sounds like. This is the thing about a public inquiry. It forces folks who are responsible for, you know, malfeasance like this to face up to the public. And in this case, the public has been directly harmed. This isn't just an attack on a political party or a political rival. Every single Albertan that was on that list is harmed and they have every right to seek accountability directly. Okay. So this is why and for people that are just joining our livestream presented by California Closets, we're talking to three of the nearly 40 academics in Alberta that signed their name to an open letter. Can I say demanding? You're requesting a public inquiry into this. David Parker, as we mentioned out of the gates, though, you know, the chief electoral officer has confirmed that he's refusing to sign a statutory declaration confirming he'll comply with the cease and desist, for example. So he's not even agreeing to do that. I mean, you know, so people are sitting here going, and Laura, you're shaking your head. Let me put this over to you. Like people are going, hang on, not only was the data shared when it shouldn't have been posted when it shouldn't have been left up for all the sea. And who knows who downloaded it? Who has? Who knows who has it now? Who knows who's sharing it? But now he's saying he won't even respect the cease and desist now. In other words, he may just continue on his merry way and continue to break the lie. I mean, how's the average person supposed to wrap their mind around that? Well, I think, again, if he's doing a lot of damage, he has reprimanded. He's reputation and reputation and separatist movement. The idea that the rules don't apply to him, which clearly is indicating here that any official enforcing the law is engaged, either in law for law fair or some kind of evil entity that needs to be fought against. This doesn't line up with what most people think. And here he's not saying, I'm not going to cooperate in investigation. He's saying, I'm going to continue to do whatever I want with this information. I am not going to respect a court order saying that I can't continue to do what I did this information before. So he's saying, basically, I'm going to continue to break the law of the lie. The law doesn't apply to me. I mean, it just keeps piling on that tweet that you showed a little bit earlier with a bit of a shock, I think, to a lot of people. This is someone or this is somebody who says that the law simply doesn't apply to him. And unfortunately, we have seen this kind of attitude come up with other actors in the separatist movement who have actually found themselves on the wrong side of the law up until this point. The question that becomes, are these the kinds of people, these the kinds of principles and values that you want to represent you in an independent Alberta? So what's the potletlets as a thought exercise here? Melanie, what's the possible justification for the government to ignore you and your colleagues call and the general public's call for a public inquiry? Like what options does the government have here? You're a political scientist. Let's dig into it a little bit. So several months ago, I remember asking colleagues, the premier, like I asked, I was asking them to tell me how wrong I was because at the time, the best explanation I had for the data, like what I was seeing, was that the premier of Alberta wasn't actually governing for the province of Alberta. It was about pandering to a small group of folks that have become outsized in terms of their own perceived importance and the perceived importance of others. And as a result, it's all about maintaining power. To what end, I don't know. I don't know what the point of having power is that this is what you're going to do with it. So basically, the premier of Alberta is governing to maintain her position within the party out of fear of being turfed by, say, somebody like Mr. Parker, who doesn't like what she's doing. I mean, we saw this happen to Mr. Ketti back in 2019. And if you go back and look in the history of Alberta politics, this has been the case for every conservative leader going back to like once Ralph Klein went. So we're talking about like 20 years ago. And we have a very similar pattern with the federal party as well. And so what we have is a province where the perceived threat from the head of government is from the fascists inside. And so because the electoral threat or the perceived in the threat of regular Alberta is tossing the rascal out, seems to be less pressing. And so as a result, we've got government pandering to where they think the threat to their power is. And it's not us as regular folk. It's not the province. And if we want this to change, that's the balance that has to change. And this is where I'm a lifelong Alberta. And so I know that there's going to be this kind of like, oh, what can we do? It's always us. Oh, like, and I'll say, like, I have a lot of harsh words before, say, the official opposition for really not presenting a cogent coherent, credible alternative to government, the way that they are supposed to be doing as is Majesty's oil opposition. Like, so this is a very convoluted way of me being like, the problem is that Daniel Smith perceives people like Mr. Parker to be the people that she's got to play to because she wants to keep her job. And she sees the primary threat to her job as losing the leadership of the UCP, which means that the care and concern that's required to actually like lead Alberta, that secondary, if not true, sure, at this process. And it is obvious. I used to think that I was a conspiratorial thinker when I was thinking this several months ago. And now part of me is like, it is really apparent. You don't get the stuff about trans kids. You don't get the, ooh, it's the endy piece fall. They didn't tell us about this stuff. You don't get the gerrymandering. You don't get everything, pretty much everything coming out of this government unless it's about how do we keep the people who are otherwise going to turf us out happy? The rest of us be damned. And so I mean, part of us, do you like take back Alberta? Let's look for stuff. Let's do it. >> Maybe it needs to be take back Alberta again. We could be TBAA and we could make hoodies and hats and everything. Listen, I want to respect the three of your time. We're into overtime. I want to give the three of you each a chance to make a quick comment before we go. Dr. Thomas, I'm a point out as you well know. I mean, at some point, the premier, if you're out a drift in the Arctic sea on an ice flow and it starts getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. At some point, you got to figure it out. And I'm not saying that Rebecca Schultz, I mean, I think a lot of people have looked at certain cabinet ministers or certain prominent politicians in that party as potential future leaders, potential future premieres. But when you lose the Rebecca Schultz or when you're preparing for Alberta's finance minister to hit the road and leave, there's a little real talk scoop. People are going to start wondering why are you losing? Yeah, I've tried to shouldn't have buried that like 50 minutes into the episode. People can expect market. The finance minister is about to go. They're losing talent. And I think that that's something the premier's got to pay close attention to. Let me ask the three of you for a quick closing statement. Where do we go from here? The audience is looking for insights from these three bright minds. Dr. Wesley will start with you. Well, what can you do? A few things. First of all, do call your MLA. And I know people just roll their eyes and say they don't listen to me. I can tell you there's been no change by this government dating back to the Kenny days that didn't happen because there was a flood of calls to MLA offices. Does it work every time? No, but it's only it's one of the keys to success. Number two, on May 29th, there'll be a series of protests where people will be talking about, you know, enough is enough. These are folks from across the spectrum, not just folks on the left in the center, but folks on the right who said this type of politics is not something we stand for. But more than that, Ryan, you know what? We're going to have to get out from behind the keyboards. We're actually going to have to get out and talk to people. If you are as concerned as we are as the 40 of us to sign this letter are, use the information that we provided. And listen and inform yourself and then go have a conversation with six people and tell them why you're concerned and see if they will do that in kind and talk to six more people. If that kind of momentum starts, then the October 19th referendum are another opportunity for folks to say enough is enough with this type of politics let alone what the policy is. Professor Williams. I agree with everything that Jared just said. I would add this. We have seen in polling that those who are leaning towards separatism, including those strategic opportunistic separatists, the ones who want to send auto message. They say they're getting the information from so-called alternate sources and from friends and family. That means
In my observation, there is no Captain Canada that's going to come in here and go to fix the separatism question. Nobody who's going to fix the democratic deficits that are being created in a series of moves by this government. Despite its claim that it's a populist government representing and wanting to listen to the people, the only thing that's going to make them listen, as Jared has pointed out, is for all of us to engage. And that means not just telling people, and fact checking, it means listening to them, trying to understand what it is that they're concerned about, and sending that message as a collective, participating as individuals. It's going to take work and it's going to take discomfort. But this is absolutely necessary. Democracy is worth it. Amen. Last word to you, Dr. Thomas. So the way that I would frame this is through two things. The first is to understand that what's driving all of this is emotions. If you look at most political and body behavior, it's like the emotions are the data, and if you don't understand the feelings, then you won't understand where folks are coming from. So part of it is just like, know that it's about feelings. I would like the message I would send is just like I understand that people like David Parker hyper-emotional and very much know out of their frontal lobes and it shows. So in that sense, like the emotions are the data when you talk to people expect to get emotional arguments. But the other thing I would say is that I, sure, you need to write your MLA, you need to talk to folks, but you need to do it in a way that owns your power. So when you're talking to your MLA, they are your representative, and you get, they have to answer questions that you put to them. So when you write them, ask them questions. If you happen to be represented by a government, MLA, and you don't like this, you should ask them, what are you doing? Why are you not taking the service? And as they can stitch you in, like, give them your address and say, like, I expect you to tell me what's going on with this, right? And so in that sense, it's not just, don't just tell them what you think. Ask them questions and make them answer them. And then the other way we frame this is about boundaries. So we can't coerce people into doing things just because we want to, unlike some of the people, like Mr. Parker, who seems to think that he can just force the rest of us to go along with whatever his whim is. And so when you're talking to your MLA, or when you're talking to folks, it would be like, this is where my line is. If you persist, my behavior will be, here's my line. If you persist, if you don't answer my questions, if you don't take this seriously, if you don't do a 180 government of Alberta, if you start to lead on this, I'm not voting for you. And I'm making that very clear. Or if it's like your relatives or something like that, when they're like, if they're persisting in this, you could be like, this is where we're not having this conversation. We're not hanging out anymore. Like, this is, it's all about figuring out where your lines are and then actually using your own power to enact on them. Because I feel like in Alberta, like, we talk a big talk about some of this stuff, but then we don't actually do it. But we know that MLA's, MLA's move, like, this is the whole Defend Alberta parts, things and stuff. But like, when you tell them, I'm not voting for you if you persist in this and I mean it, and I'm going to get all my friends to come with me too, they'll start to listen. Melanie is describing an intervention. Your behavior is affecting me negatively in the following ways. And if you don't change it, our relationship will change in the following ways. That's a great suggestion when you're dealing with an MLA and ask them questions. Don't be afraid to drop your address. They already have it, apparently. A lot of people have it. Yeah. Although I just watched the Chloe Kardashian Lamar Odom story, not every intervention goes the way you think it's going to go, Doc. Anybody who's watched that knows what I'm talking about. Melanie, you wanted to respond real quick? No, I just don't know. Like, I really resent like the absolutely abysmal way we're being treated by these people who claim that they are acting for us and they really aren't. So in this sense, like if you are friends with someone who's just kind of like, I think this is great. I'm not going to say maybe you shouldn't be friends, but this kind of idea of like it's abusive. So just kind of like if you continue to persist in this way of treating me, then I will. And like maybe we won't be friends anymore. Maybe we won't be talking anymore. Like it's not just like this, when it comes to kind of like trying to understand individuals as well. But it's not like we're not going to be friends anymore. It's not like we're not going to be friends anymore. And driving the bus here in studio, driving that letter, his name right at the top of the list is Dr. Sherrod Wesley political scientist out of the University of Alberta. Thanks for doing this. We appreciate the three of you. Thanks Ryan. You got it. Real talkers. We're going to spend some time in the live chat here powered by Park Power. I love this from Super Chat Ken. Thank you. Ken. Dr. Wesley is going to grab a cold beer on his way out. Thanks to your five bucks. That's a directive. Dr. Wesley, you help yourself. Super Chat Ken says, thank goodness for these three. He says, Jared Wesley says consistently they're sticking their necks out to protect democracy. They're doing it with facts and integrity. And he's absolutely right. Super Chat Ken will get to more of what your fellow real talkers are saying in our chat of made some notes. It's disappearing on me. It's like a ticker and it evaporates into the ether. So keep the conversation going. We're going to give you the floor. Plus we have emails here from Lindsay and Nathan. I want to get to those two to talk at Ryan Jusperson.com. Before we go any further, I have a note for you. Anybody that is it's going to be flying out of Edmonton International Airport anytime soon. Like I'm talking like in the next year or beyond, you got to know about Y EG Plus. This is Canada's first airport loyalty program. You can find it online at Y EG plus dot com slash real talk. It's very simple. You earn one point for every doll you spend at the airport could be parking could be grabbing a bite or a beer. Maybe a mimosa doing a little shopping before your flight replacing the air pods you forgot or the neck pillow our family has like 11 neck pillows now. Well, every dollar you spend at Y EG, you're going to get a point through Y EG plus is your points build. You're going to move up tears. 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Last time he was here, and I'll have to wait and see if he does it again. I don't know if he does it again. A little bit of insight for real talkers. Don't worry. We'll get back to business in a second. You walk out through these doors. If you show your camera, people can see into our green room. That's typically where guests are hanging out. Sometimes it's publicists or sometimes it's press secretaries, whoever's in there, right? And they're watching. That's where the legendary real talk beer fridge is where they go grab their cold one from like Super Chat Canner, whoever, right? And then if you go out into the common area, then you'll find a big kitchen and we've got our espresso machine out there in the light. The last time Dr. Wesley was here, not only did he take his coffee mug back out to the kitchen, he washed it. I came out and there was a pristine washed coffee mug. I had to send him a note and say there's no expectation. You do your dishes when you visit real talk. We got that covered. You know what I'm saying? Okay. I take it back because he washed his dishes. I guess I'm going to have to give Dr. Wesley a pass. There you go. But we did get a little Super Chat today and he didn't take the beer. So Wesley, he didn't take it. Yeah. We're not hanging up the headphones. I'm going to take your beer, Dr. Jardin. You go ahead and help yourself. Maybe grab a cider since it's before noon. Bro, I always help myself. Shane. Shane is watching us on X. That's our livestream presented by California closets across seven social media platforms, 830 Mountain, 1030 Eastern on weekdays. Shane says, your guests, Jesswell, are great entertainment. Thank you. Shane checking in, I guess finding the humor in all of this and I'm not really sure where that lies. You know, I think to a certain degree and I've seen some people in our chat today saying, I really don't understand why this is such a big deal. I saw one of you and I apologize that your comment disappeared as the chat continues to scroll. I can only scroll back so far. But one of you, the spirit of the comment was my friends from like, as far left as it gets to as far right as it gets, this story just isn't resonating with them. They're having a hard time understanding why this matters or how this is any different than their information being released in any other way, which could be the phone book. It could be cookies online. It could be what have you. And I feel like we've done everything we possibly can and we're not done yet. We're not done yet. But we've done everything we can to check in with sure we're hearing from political voices. We're hearing from academics. We're hearing from law enforcement. We had an RCMP major crimes investigator retired, Neil Lemay on last week. I tweeted this, John. I said, if you watch and with respect to all of our guests, if you watch one episode a year of real talk, watch the Neil Lemay episode, but I feel like people are banging the drum, sounding the alarm, reiterating why this is a big deal. And if at this point, you're still trying to convince, maybe you've convinced yourself, convinced yourself of anything. That's your own business. But if you're doing heavy lifting to convince other people that a data breach, people releasing personal contact information of three million people is not a big deal. At this point, I feel like it's willfully ignorant. There was a great comment in our chat, John, where somebody said, if Thomas Lucasic and Forever Canadian volunteers had released data of three million Albertans, they said not only would people be losing their minds, Daniel Smith would be leading the charge on this one. Well, I mean, three million, that number is so huge. But just think about it this way. I've been talking to friends who are like you just said are kind of like, well, what does this mean? Like, you know, like all the politician, political parties have access to this. Is it really a big deal? I'll just put it like this, like even people in our chat who are saying that, you know, there's a few hundred people in our chat. Would you put your address in the chat today? Would you put your post to code? Would you put this, even the section of the city that you live in, your email address, potentially phone numbers are on there too? I actually have a, like a sample of what it looks like. I'm going to pull it up as you start talking the next time. But I just say to them, I say, would you post your address, post a code and email directly to your Facebook? And they said, well, no, that's crazy. I have thousands of friends. Well, millions of people saw this information. And when you say three million people are on the list, how many millions more had access? We're not just talking about people in Alberta. This was a public website. People in the States, people could log into this website and get your information just by typing in your last name and then looking for your first initial. We've heard security experts saying that this information in the wrong hands and it's guaranteed to go there. I mean, like you tried, like as sort of a, you know, a mental gymnastics exercise, if anybody can, to me, come up with a logical explanation. Number one, you know, less is giving David Parker the benefit of the doubt in the chat and saying he doesn't have to participate in his prosecution, which is true. He doesn't have to participate in the investigation. That's true. It's worth noting that he had gone on the record earlier saying he would cooperate with elections, Alberta. Somebody got to him and he obviously changed his mind. But the mental gymnastics lie in how can you justify refusing to sign a statutory declaration to comply with the cease and desist? In other words, you've done Albertans dirty. And I'm not saying a few Albertans. I'm not saying left leaning Albertans. I'm not saying NDP members. I'm not saying, you know, city slickers. You've done Albertans dirty writ large and now you're publicly refusing to adhere to or to observe a respect to cease and desist. In other words, you're saying, I've already done you dirty once and I'm not ruling out doing it again in future or potentially continuing to share the list right now. And that to me is real cause for concern. But I would say, and I think our political scientists today made the point very clearly. And I see a lot of you in the chat right now, like sort of like personal swipes at David Parker and you feel very strongly about him. There's a lot of insults in there. Say whatever you like in the chat for us, basically as long as it's not harm's threats, egregious comments will let it slide for now. I can respect the passion. We respect the passion in our live chat even when it's aimed at me. We try our best to keep from deleting. But obviously keep the comments civil and on the record. But I understand many of you feel strongly. I would also make the point though that many of you have felt that way about, you know, David Parker take back Alberta, the movement around like pulling books out of libraries and pulling down flags at schools. And like all of that kind of, can I call it? And I want to be careful how I put this because I don't want to come across like I'm writing off people's concerns or acting like certain things don't matter. Like if you're a young person that is like, you know, coming to your own awareness around your gender identity or if you're a young trans person in Alberta or what have you issues like that conversations like that are like top of the list for you on importance. I want to acknowledge that. But I'm just saying like if somebody, you know, they pull Margaret Atwood and George Orwell off library shelves at the end of the day, like families that actually care or kids being kids. I mean, how many kids were able to track down playboys like when they were 11 years old. Kids have been doing it for decades. John, they've been able to find what they're looking for. Stop calling them out. Kids will find ways to get their hands on Margaret Atwood. And George Orwell, it's not the end of the world. If anything, it's comical. If anything, it's fodder for late night comedians. Like if anything, it's Orwell manifesting himself in Alberta in 2026. But like the world didn't collapse. It wasn't the end of the world. You know, at a situation like this when you get into this with the sharing of personal information for people that and I feel like it's important that we keep saying this. It feels like we're reiterating our hammering home the same message. Like if you're a crown prosecutor or survivor of domestic violence or a judge or a journalist or somebody that just doesn't want their contact information, their address out there. And without your consent, now I recognize some people have real problems understanding consent.
Big picture! Let's remind people that releasing personal data without folks consent is no bueno. It's unacceptable. And you may be okay with your address being out there because maybe it's been like 30 years since your kids visited you anyway. Maybe because you know that nobody's gonna come knocking. Maybe you know that your personal information out there deep down inside though you would never verbalize it is not a problem for you because nobody is aware of who you are and nobody's interested in contacting you. But for a lot of people this is a big deal and it is totally unacceptable. It's ridiculous to try to justify it in any way shape or form. Huge and I've been doing digging the last few shows you notice I've kind of shut up in the background because I've just been taking it. There's a lot of information especially if you don't know what an elector list looks like and stuff like that. It's a very clerical like it's a very record looking document so I looked it up. And so this is these aren't real people but this is an example of what it looks like. And you know it's like a CSV Excel file document you're seeing here. This is an example these aren't real names but basically it shows the polling division which is like a geo tag of kind of where on the map this these people reside. It gives the electoral district. It gives the date of when they generated the list so that it knows that it's current and there you go. I'm right at the top. This is the most nefarious thing. Yeah people terrorist organizations, scammers can use all your info but the fact that your elector ID is right there at the top. Like people are talking about some of them have phone numbers, some of them don't, some of them have emails, some of them don't. This is your ID. This this identifies you. That's the nefarious thing I think could be used for the worst thing. You know what else it could be used for a John with all that information you're showing there. You know what that could be used for. Create a very large signature list. Well I was going to say exactly that. But there's what it shows. You're you're addressed. You're post the code. In most instances it doesn't include your email. Sometimes your phone number and then it shows if you're active which basically means did you vote in the last election. Yeah Zenith by the way, if this Zenith is a lapsky might be one of the coolest names I've ever seen in my life. You know what you guys know I grew up in Calgary. Growing up cheering for the Calgary flames, Zarliz Alabsky, one of the greatest hockey names of all time. Zenith says watching us on X in our livestream presented by California Closet says David Perker's reputation. He says what reputation right? He's like okay. Mean time Marin says our privacy has been breached by many entities. So what's the point? I mean what is there a database out there right now Marin with all of your information like readily available to everybody or if you've been punched in the face once what's the big deal with getting punched in the face a few times more like I don't understand that. I just can't understand how people are okay with this. And let's realize that a lot of people just don't understand what's happened here. And that's why I think what Dr. Wesley is saying is intuitive. Talk to six people in your circle. Have them talk to six people. Have them understand what's happening here right now. If this really isn't a big deal, why doesn't David Parker tweet out his address and his email and his phone number. I mean if it's really no big deal to have your personal information out there, why doesn't he just volunteer his to the rest of the province. Man I can make a list of all the hypocrisy that's been going on the last two weeks. And I'm not one to like to jump up and like point fingers. But like Jillian makes a great comment here just in the chat. This is all coming from people on the right who are like up in harms about electronic voting machines and tabulators and having to show ID. And during the pandemic, information being leaked of people who are donating to the freedom convoy. And now it's all flipped around and it's just it's pie in the sky. Everything's fine. This is stuff. Tell us and marketing people have access to. Why are you worried about this? Every time somebody says it, I say, hey, let me see your ID right now. Let me see where you live. Let me see your post. The code. Give me your email address so I can spam you all day and tell you your piece of part of my language. Well, should should anybody and I recognize that some of you that were collecting signatures for stay free Alberta, you were collecting signatures to trigger a referendum on separation to use separatists. I invite your feedback to
[email protected]. Our values don't align. But we don't want this between now and October and whatever happens after October to be a one-sided conversation. So I'm seeking your perspective on how you feel about your efforts being denigrated, your efforts being trought upon. If you sat on a lawn chair with a table out and an Alberta flag behind you in a highway rest stop for hours and hours and hours on when on end with every single one of your free weekends collecting signatures. And now people are looking at that number, 300,000, which you're probably pretty proud of, 300,000 signatures and going, I don't believe that for a hot second. I don't believe like, you know, let's say like Larry the separatist comes in and says, guys, I collected 4,000 signatures and they go, Larry, that's amazing. And he goes, yeah, look, here they all are with their names and their addresses and their voter ID and their phone numbers and they go, Larry, did you check their IDs and he goes, yep. And then they go, great. And then they submit Larry's 4,000 signatures. And it turns out Larry's just as greasy as David Parker and has been breaking the law just like David Parker. And then all of a sudden everybody realizes that this list of signatures, this 300,000 signatures does not deserve the reverence does not deserve given credit does not deserve to have people in Alberta to feel confident about it because the whole process is tarnished. It's demolished like, can you imagine in any other application in politics or life? Can you imagine a situation like this where the tone has been set where the main players in the entire thing have proven that they have zero integrity and that they'll stop at nothing including breaking the law to do everything they can to break up Canada. And the process still proceeding, can you imagine? It doesn't make sense. Ms. Katie says this is their playbook, right? Remember the premier protecting the Polish pastor, Arter Povlovski who raised money off of his arrest like whatever happened to him. Says we eventually forget about these people and Ms. Katie is right. We forget about it. The new cycle moves fast. We do everything we can to stay on top of it. You know, people are right now. We got an email yesterday. When's the last time you talked about Gaza, Jessbo? People are wondering why aren't you talking more about Ukraine, Jessbo? Why aren't you focusing on what's happening with Iran? When's the last time you did an episode on Kuzma renegotiations in our trade with the United States? Why aren't you paying closer attention to what's happening with the BC conservative party? How come we're not talking more about the Ontario Liberal leadership race? This is off the top of my head. I could give you 30 more because right now this feels and I got to be careful with wildfire metaphors as we say right now through this season, including recent developments. Our thoughts are with folks, including firefighters that are working hard in communities that are going to be hit with wildfire right now. And obviously we'll focus on that in future shows. But it feels right now, John, like fires are popping up and people with voices and people with platforms. And that includes you, real talkers in your own communities and your own circles of influence. We need to respond to this like a five alarm fire. We need to respond to this as an emergency because it is. Of course it is. And you know, Greg in the chat says, you know, this is David Parker. This is the Centurion project. This is a close knit small group of separatists. This isn't the UCP. But that's what bothers me about this the most is that back to the comment you read. If this was the NDP involved in this, if this was the forever Canada petition involved in this, our premium would be on TV every day, leading the charge to find the people responsible to fire the NDP representatives or the forever Canada representatives to have them put in front of a court, to have them in a deposition to hear what they know, how they got it, how the information was transferred. And what we have right now is media silence. And people will say, well, she made, you know, the UCP have been talking about it when they're asked about it in question period. They made a statement that that's not the same. I mean, if the tables were turned, this would be every day. Let's find it would be a witch on. And that's what bothers me the most because I don't care who did this. It doesn't matter what side of the political aisle they're on. We pretty much know that or now and we pretty much knew when it happened. But it didn't it wouldn't matter if it was the other side like this is this and it doesn't matter if you could hire a private investigator or do your due diligence and find someone's. This was millions of people's information being leaked to millions of other people in one fall. So the worst part is it was searchable like this wasn't like somebody handed like a covert, you know, PDF file on a USB. They were like, hey, not only do we have it, we're going to allow every Tom Dick and Harry to be able to type in a few key strokes, a last name and scroll through and find whoever they want and where they live in a second. And on the internet, we talked to, you know, I talked to a data person who was here the other day when we were filming another podcast, you know, a social media guy, very techy guy. And he said, do you know the amount of work that had to go into this? This wasn't just uploading a PDF. This took multiple people days to perform this work on a website and make it searchable. And that to me, I mean, if you've got multiple.
people involved in this working all like where were their ethics when they were doing this put it on the website Final buzzer in our live chat powered by park power says pretty rich of Jason Kenny to pipe up now Since his own inquiry was buried when he was premier If you missed our flame thrower presented by the decuse of northwest Edmonton and Sherwood park It's the final episode of every week this week. It'll be the Friday heading into may long weekend You can send us an email anytime to talk at Ryan jessbrerson.com looking for your hottest takes You can find that it goes out as a bonus episode to our podcast subscribers And then john if you want to show our youtube channel here By the way, thanks to those of you our recent subscribers our newest subscribers. We sure appreciate you Closing in on that 40,000 looking forward john is closing in will our members are those that give a little extra Just broken here. I love that. I love that you're campaigning for the members our members some of them's one of them's gonna One two tickets to emits an opera members are up, which is awesome But if you scroll down on the youtube channel just subscribing for free. Obviously you can check out you are full episodes You'll find them all there are shorts all nicely organized look at that cancel the referendum our gen gurson short 22,000 views and counting wow We've got our highlights and then the flame thrower there it is right there Jason Kenny. Is he the victim or the instigator? That's our most recent interesting Take on the flame thrower that was a 12 minute version of the flame thrower by the way I had to go get some throat laws and just after that one but a great email from a real talker that asks that exact Same question on Jason Kenny's culpability versus his vulnerability It is interesting to see Alberta's former premier probably more fired up about this than anybody else and and well I don't know if that's subjective, but who would blame them? A former premier having their personal information released their address released shown on screen That's what happened with him and Rachel notly by the way is absolutely Wild that's wild. Jillian says everybody with a soul left the UCP ages ago You know what I don't believe that as a matter of fact because I know a lot of people with souls I know a lot of smart people. I know a lot of ethical people that are still UCP supporters some of them are still UCP MLA's and they are remarkably quiet right now and probably In the quiet of night or when they're out walking their dogs doing some soul searching and trying to figure out what their next plan is because the whole point Starting back in 2017 was to unite these parties, right? And I've shared this with you before it was an attributed quote And I'm not sure that this person wants it to be a tribute it But it's a mover and a player in Alberta politics that said to me when they were working John to create the united conservative party Right and I said to him what's the plan here? Right? And he said I'm gonna be honest with you our biggest challenge Is we we've got all the corruption of the PCs and all the craziness of the wild rose And that was the problem that was the cocktail the new that they knew that they were shaking up And at this point when the UCP one big in 2019 and one again under Daniel Smith I think the conservatives in Alberta felt like we've got it figured out We've got the right united. We've got the party together and now You're in a situation where you realize this is unsustainable You cannot have a premier that's playing it cool when the largest data breach in Alberta history has happened And there's not strong statements in a demand and immediate commitment for a public inquiry It is chipping away it is hammering away at the foundation of the party and at the credibility of this government And whether that is this week or 18 months from now Maybe it's the next time that I'll Burton's vote this is going to be a very real problem The only thing that's saving This government's ass right now is that the official opposition is having a very tough time resonating with Albertans and a fair question would be if the official opposition can't connect with Albertans in a situation like this When are they ever going to make an impression with Albertans? So that's a real problem for the progressives That's a real problem for the left But the real problem for the conservatives right now is that the narrative and the reputational damage that is being done right now I would say in many cases john is irreparable Aaron's comment in the chat is bang on a friend of ours Mr. Bozen cool who's often on the show I love when he said this if if the premier doesn't address this fully She she she could lose her job if she does address it fully She could lose her job timing is the only thing that's a issue And I agree with you like I just think It's the kids would say it's very sus because if you chase this trail as the premier I mean it's going to lead to things that I'm not going to say anything but that like could likely tie or look like it's tied to your party right and that's I think Why we got the silence which is is really sad it's it's it's a shit show right well and listen and there's like I'm I'm in a bunch of photos Right so I would just say like when when you look and you see photos of like two people together you go look at this Like I mean the classic examples are like Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein sometimes the photos worth a million words right I'm just saying Can you imagine Who is the Edmonton radio personality Who is an Edmonton radio personality It was inviting Jeffrey Epstein to come to Edmonton to go to their charity dinner or something remember remember when that story surface That was absolutely wild was a CBC personality anyway. I mean not everything age as well My point is just to say like when you and I were both working for the Edmonton Oilers says example or when we're out and about or what have you people say Hey come up and say hey can I get a picture you're always like yeah for sure you don't know like they're The situations for I to to localize it even more there have been like conservative political candidates or there was a Candid I think it was the writing was Edmonton white mud. I might be wrong, but it was a female candidate For for the United Conservatives. This is a while back and at a fundraising event for her She was photographed with these guys that came in and then it later surfaced They had like patches on their leather jackets or they have like lapel pins or whatever and people are like these guys Right these guys like white supremacists or these guys are whatever and and and then everybody piles on this Candidate and goes what are you doing to getting photos with these you know these obviously like losers right these like scum of the earth kind of people And and I remember in that situation I remember in that circumstance looking and going holy shit like thinking to myself like you go back in your It didn't look well. I just didn't look that like there was nothing like it There wasn't like a night there wasn't a swastik on the code. There wasn't like a cookie wasn't wearing a hood You've been in this game a lot. Well, I'm just saying like I could see a circuit I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt and I'm working my way to a point real talkers. Don't worry But I can see a circumstance where you would get caught in a photo with someone you go I didn't know who they were. I had no idea it happens, right But the recurring theme here the recurring theme here is that there is photo after photo after photo after photo Through the years at different events some of them are political rallies But some of them are like weddings where it's like the primers with David Parker or David Parker is with Aaron deep sand who or you know There's the staffer that winds up at the online meeting of the Centurion project and like everyone's It's like there's like one degree of separation with a whole bunch of people So I'm trying to be objective here I'm acknowledging that every once in a while you may wind up in a photo with somebody you didn't realize or somebody you didn't know Let's extend some reasonable benefit of the doubt But when it is again and again and again and again and again and again and it's like the same 12 to 15 players Over a number of years at a number of different locations and they're always mingling. They're always talking They're always hanging out How on earth do you possibly Insulate your government from collateral damage here and how do you possibly convince all burdens That to be extreme David Parker doesn't have a direct line to the premier's office It's very sass dry and like the kids would say I'll say it again. It's very sass Dude I've been in the nightclub industry since 2008 I I cringe to think of the photos that I'm in on people's social media Counsel from back then where you know you can probably see me in a photo with oh there's a statutory rapist There's a drug dealer. There's a game there's someone who embezzled. There's someone who did something nefarious Right, but I think when you're at someone's wedding it's it's a whole different story 100 percent Neola says jess will please have these guests on again. I promise I will By the way, those are you in the chat that we're like where's news professor guys? Our fsg's we have three guests. I you're not happy want more We'll answer the bell. We'll bring you more We're not gonna leave this story and we're also not gonna ignore other stories that are happening either But Neola says let's form a plan lead this lead by this team to keep us fighting. Let's show albertons what we can be doing as this story evolved She says I don't think that this should be a one-time visit. We're gonna stick on this But we're also gonna circle back on other stories that matter, right? Like you don't blame Tracy D for saying I wish somebody would create a website where there's like a list of like crap They're trying to make us forget she says updated daily, but you could see it all at a glance She says maybe you know Turkish Tylenol Jerry mandering the list goes on from there dubious says I have a real fear that we never find out what actually happened during Smith's reign as premier because it won't end before trump takes over and most of this chat gets mass-graved for talking bad about the orcs dubious having fun with the comment there. Let me read this from Lindsey Lindsey wrote into talk Ryan Jasperson.com I immediately wrote her back and I said we're reading this on the next episode because Lindsey makes such a great point. There's a lot of heat on the premier right now around this There's a lot of heat on the justice minister Amory around this, but Lindsey says I just wanted to thank you so much for for real talk's voice speaking out shining light on this data leak situation And I wanted to add my two cents which I believe is being overlooked and Lindsey I think you're right She says I believe there's a very important question and under reported accountability in this voter list breach that nobody is asking
Where is the minister of status of women? Lindsey says the CEO of suggests domestic violence prevention society has said, quote, "It is very hard to recover safely after safety has been lost." Fear is not love. The organization has confirmed that domestic violence and sexual assault survivors are already seeking assistance with relocation already. This is not a hypothetical. election Alberta's chief electoral officer says he's hearing from hundreds of domestic violence survivors who are scared and anxious. And yet minister Tanya Furr, the arts, culture, and status of women minister whose own mandate letter explicitly directs her to develop and implement supports for victims of domestic violence has made no public statements in this regard. Her only acknowledgement of the crisis was resharing a colleague's post from the minister of children and family services she couldn't even find her own words. You know last week she was out celebrating the turning points fundraising gala. Praising fear is not love. CEO Kim Ruiz by name for protecting survivors and declaring her government is taking decisive action to prevent violence. Those frontline organizations are now put in a position to respond to this crisis and those same survivors of domestic violence are at much higher risk. Minister Furr's public silence on this speaks volumes. Lindsey says what I'd like to see her do right now and any Albertan could reasonably ask her to issue a public statement in her own words, acknowledging the specific danger that this breach poses to survivors. Outline what supports are available for effective survivors right now. Mr. Appeal or amend bill 54's investigation threshold. That was a lot that was changed last year. The elections commissioner basically saying I'm paraphrasing that having their teeth yanked out. I'm really paraphrasing having their teeth yanked out with pliers with bill 54 robbed them stripped them of the ability to investigate when they've seen fires right when they've seen issues when they suspected breaches. The whole idea where there's smoke, there's fire when they've seen smoke bill 54 has pulled their hoses. And finally Lindsey says call for a full public inquiry. She says none of these require waiting for investigation results. All of these fall within her mandate. She says thanks again for your consistent updates on this important story that from Lindsey to talk at Ryan Justerson dot com. Fantastic email. It has been you ever get to Tuesday and you're like it's been a long week, Ryan. It's been it's been just been and I love it because it's great. We got so much more engagement on the show. But last week and this week it's just it's a lot of it's heavy stuff. And like you're saying a lot of people don't don't understand it. And I love emails like that because I think I think we're trying you are doing a good job of trying to explain to people, especially with the former RCMP officer Neil LaMille. He just he lifted a lot of veils for people and just kind of showed how serious this data breaches. But I'm sure at some point this week will laugh a little Ryan. I've got a great video of Marco Rubio taking press questions filling in for Carolyn Levin that is going to make us laugh at some point in this week. I love that. Maybe tomorrow. Let's do it after my Jasper memories tomorrow. He's bombarded. It is hilarious. All right. We've got a former Toronto mayor joining Jasper's current mayor Richard Ireland's going to be with us in studio tomorrow, which I'm looking forward to. And then how about after my Jasper memories, why don't we get to that and we'll have a few laughs. Real talkers will have a few laughs tomorrow. Ken says watching us on Facebook today. Thanks to California closets. Ken says it's time to have David Parker's computers and phones seized. Jill says some folks would rather downplay this than admit they've been duped and they're supporting truly horrible characters. Jill I 100% agree. Sometimes it's trying to save face with egg all over it, right? And Tilly Lace says you can't take your information off the voters list. The fact that people can't even fathom the comparison of freely giving information on social media versus that is totally insane. Is totally insane. Justin says I seriously don't understand. As Melanie mentioned today, Melanie. Some says there's just not enough outrage or pushback on these things from the population on mass and to tell there is nothing will change. Odds and sods says the very first thing that a reasonably intelligent person does when they get access to such an expansive list that they are not supposed to have is copy the damn list and stash it that from odds and sods. Cassandra says defying the law is illegal. Others say Parker deserves civility. Says no, love you, Jess. But absolutely not. Yeah, I'm not saying David Parker deserves. Listen, what I'm saying is guys, if you're making physical threats and saying heinous stuff in our life chat, we got to clamp down. That's all I'm saying, right? I'm saying we're opening the floodgates for you to speak freely. But once there's like threats of violence and stupid shit like that, we're obviously going to crack down. That was my gentle way of asking you to refrain from making physical threats in our life chat. Okay. Even then we give a we give a bit of a warning. Someone made like some comment about chalk outlines today. Yeah, right? Politicians, right? And I was like, come on. That's not healthy to be. And I also just want to be clear like like this is a reputable. This is Alberta's number one talk show. This Alberta talk show record. This is where prime ministers come when they want to talk to Alberta. So we can't be having people making like comments about chalk outlines in our life chat. We're not responding to it. Right? Guys, this is like basic stuff. I don't think we need to spend too much time explaining this. I also want to note, you know, other comments here like Lorraine says there needs to be some serious consequences for Parker, both for the data leak and he hasn't even paid us fines before. Jim says, where's like Preston Manning and Stephen Harper? What are they doing right now? Very silent, aren't they? JJ needs an app says functioning democracy depends on accountability, respect for institutions, adherence to the rule of law without them disorder, extremism and the erosion of democratic freedoms becomes possible. It's a great point. Let that just sit there for a second. Tracy says Western alienation is part of first year university political science. Professors talk about the myths and how collaboration benefits all and division creates issues that create resentment. Sabrina had a really strong take. If you miss a creative Eddie in our most recent episode, that was the 11th of May. You can check it out. It joins us the first episode of every week. And she talked about the disinformation campaign around Alberta separatism. Like let's point out that the director of ceases Canada's spy agency has confirmed that foreign interference is relevant and is happening. And we need to be aware of it in the Alberta independence movement. We're talking about Russia for sure. Add China and India to the mix and Supreme at a very good point. One of the smartest people we know love having her on once a week. She says this isn't about an achieved outcome for them. You know, I'm paraphrasing Sabrina go watch the episode yourself. Watch the short that we put together. She says this is like the Russians basically don't care about whether Alberta separates or not what they do care about is destabilizing the entire landscape by amplifying voices. Many of those voices illegitimate. In other words, AI slop foreign actors and the like guys, this is the real deal. You know, this is the real deal. This is this is not some sort of sensationalism. This is not us trying to get ratings and clicks. This is the real deal and it impacts you. And it's time that we take it seriously more seriously. And these comments continue to come in. Less thanks for the 10 bucks into the super chat says who has access to this list. Many jurisdictions, Canada, parts of the US jury pools are drawn from voter registration lists. Some of you are writing in just all caps saying I am so mad. Aaron says it seems like Mr. Parker is looking to be a cult leader of sorts. Yeah. So when he said I saw there's sort of like Jim Jones vibes to it. I mean, I don't know that anybody's literally drinking the Kool-Aid. Put it this way if David Parker offers you Kool-Aid, don't drink it. Put it that way. Ken says a large number of MLA's have been silenced by by they've been given ministries with like, you know, $60,000 raise and staff, you know, now parliamentary secretary is just given an additional raise, six grand. The largest cabinet in Alberta's history. Eric says I appreciate the local coverage. You got it, Eric. Dwayne says this is all happening because this is Alberta, right? He says governments have been treated in particular conservative governments with impunity. He says grandparents voted for conservatives. So did mummy and daddy. So we have to without question. Listen, this doesn't have to be a conservative thing. Like that's the point I want to keep making. Like, you know, a lot of people will sort of say, you know, you ride the horse that got you there, ride the horse that brought you stick with the ones that like in this case, we understand that, you know, Daniel Smith's leadership win of this party. Remember, like Travis Taves was supposed to win. Remember Travis Taves, finance minister was supposed to be the next premier. And there were a few other competitors that popped up seeking to lead the party as well. Rebecca Schultz was one of them. Rijon Sani was one of them. Remember that guys, it feels like an eternity ago. And Daniel Smith came in president of like Alberta enterprise group former radio host, former longtime colleague of mine and right up the middle and won this thing.
did it with the support of David Parker and take back Alburder and all these other folks who have been served by this government with the paybacks, right? They have been satiated to a certain degree, but here's the thing. We've set it on the show a million times. They're never happy. They will never be happy. They will never have enough. And now you've got people in our chat conservatives doing everything that they can to defend the honor of their party, defend the integrity of their party, or they're staying silent right now and I don't blame you and then others piling on the conservatives. This does not have to be a conservative issue. This does not have to be a liability to a certain degree. I could write a whole thesis on this, but it doesn't have to be a liability for Daniel Smith and for the conservative government, but she has to do something about it and she has to do it like last week. She has to do it yesterday. She has to do it right now. Leave the comments coming, send us an email to talkorinegespersons.com and CCS on any email that you're sending to your elected officials. Hey, Johnny, before we go, I wanted to play something really important and that is, I mean, here's a classic example of something else that's happening right now. I know we're talking a lot about Alberta guys and I know that we serve an audience outside of Alberta as well, but right now we've got some things that need to be addressed with our immediate neighbors, right? With our friends and family members, our fellow Albertans and surrounding communities, in particular seven communities, you're called the integrated seven and this is where firefighters and paramedics have been working together, providing integrated service and that's being threatened right now. It's being threatened this week as municipalities are voting on whether or not they're going to keep those integrated services. Now, I recommend you check out the back half of our most recent episode. It's May 11th for a firefighters round table. It was very enlightening, really important stuff, but I want to play the highlight right now. It's just about two and a half minutes for those of you that may have missed it because this is an EMS crisis. This is an emergency response crisis in the province of Alberta and it is flying under the radar and it cannot. This is something we need to be paying attention to. So I want to make sure we flag this. There's a highlight from our conversation with firefighters from across the province. Here it is. This doesn't make any sense. More fire based EMS is the answer to the EMS crisis in Alberta and in other provinces. I market this everywhere I go. Fire based EMS, that doesn't have to look as integrated as we are, but putting paramedics in fire halls treating them like first responders rooted in the community rather than a provincially prescribed system that's going to fit every community. I don't think it works. Fire services, firefighters, the frontline particularly know the needs of the community better than anybody else's. And I think we need to actually empower them to do the work, not defund them in doing the work. We had a patient in the bottom of a trench in our community that the walls caved in and our members every second matters. Every second matters in that case. So our members responded and they are technical rescue specialists. They're firefighters and they're also paramedics. So they're down in the hole rescuing this man, but at the same time providing medical treatment. So they start IVs, they give medications, they can take bottle size, they can give pain control, they can they can deal with the medical need and the fire rescue needed at the same time. So when we talk about getting out of the EMS business, that is going to change the level of service in our community. Where the oldest integrated service, we believe in North America, if not the world, Dublin may be. So we have a long history of delivering this type of service. And we've engaged our community and they've spoken, they've been loud and they've been clear, they understand the value that we bring. This is 114 years of service that we've brought into this community. And when we've asked for their support, they have made it really loud and really clear that they find value in what we're doing today. Well, since 2017, we've done 148 VHRs, which is taking a patient from their house to the critical care they need in the city of the cath lab. 148 times. There's savings there because you're not stopping at the hospital and red deer, you're not seeing an ER, you're not seeing a cardiologist there, you're going and getting that life's saving treatment right away. Fund the system properly. Our elected leaders at municipal level have been put into a very difficult position because if they choose to stay and pay the difference, it's going to be a tax increase for the local, for their constituents. And so undoubtedly, it's going to look and feel like download of services or downloading cost to municipalities. Other municipalities all choose to walk. EHS now loses access to 700 registered practitioners. There's a staffing crisis. There has been four years and EHS themselves acknowledge is that they have to hire over 700 more by fiscal year 2031, 2032. It doesn't really add up in our minds whatsoever. Well, we have a system that's worked over 100 years in the left-bridge. Red deer, we've been doing it since 1964, Advanced Life Support since 1982. You can't tell me this system doesn't work. Those were firefighters that were joining us from the Metro Edmonton region, Strathcoma County, left bridge, red deer. Encourage you to check out the May 11th episode and share that highlight. You'll find it on our YouTube channel and across our social media platforms. You can follow us on Instagram, TikTok, X, and all the rest at Real Talk, RJ. I'm a blue sky at Ryan Jesperson. You can find me on Facebook there. We're always doing what we can to make sure that these issues are in front of you and easily understood. I know it's a lot to stay on top of it. But when you're talking about frontline emergency services, can we all agree? This is not where we want to be cutting costs. This is not where we want to be walking away from, in less bridges case, how wild was that? They're talking about like the early 1900s. They've had that integrated firefighter-paramatic model. They're going, "This works." It's worked in Red deer since the 1970s. It works. They're bypassing the Red deer regional hospital. They don't need stars, air ambulance every single time. Shout out to stars, by the way. But they don't need them every single time because they have the talent. They have the experience. They have the resources to do these big important transports. This is real life stuff. I wanted to shout out those firefighters who made the trip in to Studio to join us yesterday. All of them are proud members of the Alberta Professional Firefighters and Paramedics Association. We're going to be supporting them over the next month. You're going to be hearing some messaging on the show about them. But I want to encourage you, if what they said resonated with you, if you have a personal story to tell about how an integrated model, how a firefighter-paramatic saved your life, we saw dozens of them in the chat. Herd people talking about strokes, motor vehicle accidents, heart attacks. We heard a Mother's Day emergency response story in our live chat while the firefighters were right here. It doesn't surprise us with such an engaged, informed and active audience, an audience that values community. We want to encourage you to share your thoughts with us. Again, that's
[email protected]. As we sign off for the day and get ready for the next episode where the spotlight will be on Jasper. Of course, the rest of the province of Alberta, I do want to remind you that our friends at Play Alberta every single Thursday present Alberta wins. We're looking for your stories. Johnny wants us to have reasons to smile and laugh, and I do too. Tell us about an Albertan making a big difference in the world around them. You could be featured on Thursday, courtesy of our friends at Play Alberta. Real Talk is hosted by Ryan Jasperson, executive producer Josh Dunford, technical producer John Hicks, general manager Katie Cook Chivers, account coordinator Lauren Sturelego, human resources Lena Sheppard, website design Mike Johnston, voice over by me, Kerry Skeleton, member of America Julie Rohr. Real Talk is recorded in Edmonton, Alberta on Treaty 6 territory, the traditional and ancestral territory of the Cree, Denne, Blackfoot, Soto and Nacotus Suit, home to the Métis Settlements and the Métis Nation of Alberta. Real Talk is a relay project. For more, check out Ryan Jasperson.com. [BLANK_AUDIO]
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