S7 E5: Jean Alesi's explosive 1990 season

The Athletic John Lacey looked destined for F1 Superstar Dome at the start of the 1990s as he kicked off the decade by leading its first race, then been mugged airtons center after the McLaren driver had caught and passed him for the lead on the streets of Phoenix. There were more heroics on track during that year and another street circuit podium in Monaco, but ultimately, Lacey's first season F1 became more memorable for what was going on behind the scenes, and his famous contract saga that eventually resulted in him landing a dream move to Ferrari despite having previously signed a contract with Williams. In this episode of Bring Back V10s, Will Unpick everything that was going on during a summer where Lacey signed contracts with three teams for 1991 and also revisit what made him and the influential Tyrell O19 such a potent package on their day, and joining me Glenn Freeman to do just that are Sam Smith and Andrew Vanderberg. And he welcome along straight into it when you think of John Lacey's 1990, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Hi Glenn, thanks for having me back on. So, honour to be here talking about Lacey in particular this season, so many memories. I mean, obviously everyone will recall that passing Phoenix and what an introduction to the year that that was. But I think the bit that always comes back to mind is the Italian Grand Prix that year, where he beats Mansell off the line, then does brost into the second chicane, then Warwick has his massive shunt and the start all happens again. And he does exactly the same thing. And we watch the commentary and like Murray Walker can't believe that he's there just blast in past brosts to retake the position in almost completely identical fashion to the way he did it first of all. So, yeah, I just had an amazing memory of that and a time when, you know, I'd been a PK fan since I started watching F1, but after those two years at Lotus, I was so having to come to the realisation that maybe he was past it and I was looking for a new hero and at that time I thought Lacey was going to be my man. I'm glad we got that monster mentioning because to keep the script for this episode tight enough, so we're not here for two hours, I had to skip monster. So, we've got to mention in right at the top. Sam, how about you? Personally, I think there's too much in all this to just distill it down for one memory. I mean, it's quite personal as well because in a sense, 1990 was the season for me where racing turned from a geeky hobby, which we all were at one stage, weren't we? And something more professional, I was working with a former 3000 team washing wheels and cleaning cars. So, yeah, 1990 is like a cultural reference point in some ways for me because, you know, when you're 15, the world kind of unfolds before you, doesn't it? And with the, you know, the music scene living in Manchester as I was then, Italian, 90 World Cup, it's so evocative. And just one of those years that in your youth, you remember so fondly, Alacy was very much a part of that for me, like a visceral sort of manifestation of growing up, I guess. Sorry, if that's a bit obtuse, but really that's the first thing that comes into my mind. It's just that wonderful, scary, technical year where Alacy was just this acrobat working with a car that should have been nowhere near the front and occasionally was. The underdog's underdog, I think, is a nice way to encapsulate what I feel about Alacy that season. Yeah, that's brilliant. You know, the, the, the, the open, the beauty of the opening question is that you can take it wherever you want and the more variety, the better. Obviously now we put the opening question out to our audience as well on Twitter. Once again, over, over a hundred replies to this. Thank you to everyone who gets involved is brilliantly seeing the, the variety we get. Obviously with Alacy 1990, there's some similar ones that kept coming up. We'll do those at the end. But let's crack into it. Greg Anker said the pleasure of seeing Tyrell competing at the front. Thought that was quite a nice one. There was a theme here that we'll pick up on. Matt Nop said the sheer potential he had, but the missed opportunities that would define his career. Gavin O'Leary said, fast and erratic, arguably the best driver in the first quarter of the season, then mistake after mistake. Ethan Davis said a clearly talented young driver, either looking like prime gym clerk or shocking the average, knowing between Paul Lucas said the points he threw away match those he gained and Stephen Gates summed this whole section up as a pointer to his whole Macquarieal career. Sean McMorrow is with Andy and chose Nailing Prost Ferrari twice at Monza. Our Jeff says the Williams Ferrari contract Fiasco will spend plenty of time getting into that. But we'll finish with the most popular choices. So many of you of course chose Alacy's race leading performance and battle with Ert and Centering Phoenix or as a couple of you said, Detroit, but that's okay. It was more than 30 years ago. Among those of you who chose Phoenix were Gavin Richardson, Robert Bonso, Clay Howford, Rob Young, Paul William Gibson, Jim Cooper and Cameron Evans and there were some shots for Monaco where Alacy split the McLaren's to finish second again. So thanks to Ben Mildon, Simracin Sam, Robert Wilmert and Heskiff motorcycles. Of course we love hearing from those of you who send us questions for the end of the series as well. So make sure you ask us anything you'd like about F1's V10 era from 1989 to 2005 by using a hashtag #bringbackv10s on Twitter or email [email protected]. Check out shop.theehighfromrace.com if you'd like to get your hands on some of our bringback V10s merchandise and thank you to everyone who sends pictures of the clothing or other items we have over there that carries our branding and thanks for buying them over the Christmas period and into January as well. And of course if you'd like to get early access to new episodes of the show and listen ad free then check out the race members club. To take a look at the other benefits you can get from the race by joining up and then to sign up head to thehighfromrace.com/membersclub. So in F1's circles the 1990s began with much being expected of a Lacey who had just eight starts to his name by this point but he'd made an impact during his part season in 1989 and in auto sport magazine Nigel Robuck described a Lacey as a young driver who should be central to the new decade. A Lacey was being talked up by his bosses as well, Ken Tyrell said he had a certain arrogance about him but in a good way because he has confidence in himself and Ken praised a Lacey's ability to be on the pace straight away when he leaves the pits rather than needing four or five laps to settle in. Tyrell technical chief Harvey Possilfoyce said a Lacey had the killer instinct and was aggressive without being silly. He also said a Lacey had no obvious failings and was already showing unbelievable consistency and races. In a later interview during preseason Ken Tyrell went even further saying the team's fortunes would depend a lot on how a Lacey dealt with being so inexperienced but Ken added if he continues at the rate that he has already improved then I can see him at the end of the year being probably second only to Senna. Now Sam given that this was pre-Fenix which was obviously the race that catapulted the hype around Lacey to new levels was he worthy of such high praise after just a handful of F1 races with Tyrell in 1989. Well Tobastodized is a great public enemy track of the era do believe the hype and I think that's what I was feeling when Lacey was even from early early on in his career and pre F1. I mean when you look at his early career 1988 apart when he had a very average first season in form of 3000 with Orica he'd been pretty mercurial he'd started in Rello 5s he was form of 3 champion by 87 and then in 89 when he went to Eddie Jordan in won the form of 3000 championship and had that amazing start of poor Ricard. You know it all been done with pretty strong fields he'd had some real some real testing parts of his career already and I think it's well known that Eddie Jordan kind of smoothed him out a little bit. That Ricard debut and his complete destruction of Jonathan Palmer as well which shouldn't be forgotten in 89 I think just signal a special talent I think if any one can effectively end a pretty strong drivers Jonathan Palmer was by half a season then you know you've got something special I think I think it Phoenix in 90 there was still a lot of unknowns about him particularly his temperament I've vividly recall actually been at Brandt Hatch in 89 August 89 and he was really having a ding dong with his teammate Martin Donnelly at the time and they were vying for the lead early in that race and there was a park car by the pit wall as they used to be in those days I mean you know unbelievable when there's a you know this sweeping right hand and there's a park car on the track they just left it there no yellow flags nothing and Lacey defending the lead edge Donnelly's Camel Rayna towards it and it was absolutely brutal I mean he missed it by a very fine margin it would have been an absolute playing crash if Donnelly had of him. hit that car. But it really gave you an idea of how ruthless this kid was as well as as rapid. But in battle he was utterly ruthless. I think Lacey had already built up this character and this buzz about him. And it was just that Formula One in its kind of usual blinker way hadn't noticed him. But they sure as well did by Paul Ricard and then once the paddock sees what he can do, the momentum builds doesn't it? And if you back that up with the results as he did in that part season in 89, come Phoenix, there was there was a big buzz about him. With Lacey's help, Tira had finished fifth in the Constructors Championship in 1989. It's best finished since 1979. And the team was looking upwards. It finished 23 points behind Benaton in the standings. But Tira was target was to overhaul Benaton and break into the top four. Ken Tira said, we've got to be fourth in the Constructors Championship this year, we know we can't beat McLaren except when they make a mistake. And the same applies to Ferrari and perhaps to a lesser degree to Williams. But we think we can beat Benaton, we've got high hopes. And he was Tira overreaching here thinking it could get on terms of at least one of what at this time was becoming the big four in F1. I think it was a reasonable thing for them to aspire to. If you'd looked at the pace when certainly when Lacey was in the car in 89 as Sam said he pretty much put Palmer's career to bed and when he was off trying to win the Formula 3,000 championship Herbert jumped in the car and neither of them were anywhere near as competitive as he was. But when he was in the car he was pretty much a match for the Benatons. He'd qualified them both in Spain when they put Pirro in instead of Herbert. He was pretty much on Pirro's pace. So I think there was every reason to think that if he was in the car for the full season maybe it could do that. Of course then it was only the top six at scored points. So there were slim pickings to be had. And if you had a guy who could perform miracles on these days that was often all you really needed. If you bagged a solid third or fourth place that could be worth quite a lot over the course of the year. Also in the DFR they had an engine that should have been solid, deriable. Obviously the whole reason we do this podcast is because of the presence of different engines and everything that were coming in there and the sort of randomness that that created. The Benaton had the HB not such a proven package. And also I think you look at the way the form fluctuated then. Lotus had been a championship contender only a few years ago. Then they were in the doldrums. Teams like arrows and leisure and brabham to a lesser extent would come and go. So you could never it wasn't quite a static and set as the form is now. Plus looking at the driver lineups that Benaton and even Williams had, you know, it portrays Ian Bootson and obviously I mentioned that I was a PK fan but it was hard to know how good he was going to be coming into that alongside Nene for 90. I think there were reasons for them to think that they could possibly do it, you know, and if a lacy bad enough are those big results to finish for from the championship. Just days before the start of the season Tyrell made a shock switch from good year to perrelli tires. This seemed bizarre because it Tyrell had spent all of preseason testing on good years and he wouldn't get to run the perrelli's until first practice at the opening race in Phoenix. Harvey Possible for a explained at the time that the decision was motivated by the fact that Tyrell would be able to work closely with perrelli to combine the development of the tires and the chassis and Tyrell would benefit from the latest specification tires. Ahead of this episode, Sam spoke to a lacy's engineer Nigel Beresford about various things that went on at Tyrell during that year and this is what Nigel told Sam about switching tire supply on Eve the season. Harvey and Jean Claude pressured Ken into changing to using perrelli tires and for very strong technical reasons, a big part of the performance of our cars at that time was the fact that Jean Claude had developed this computer program which was called AeroMap and I think we were probably the first or at least very much one of the first teams to use this and it basically allowed him to predict the aerodynamic balance of the car at different speeds and that's very important because when you were setting up a car in those days you didn't have, we had no telemetry or data recording devices on that car whatsoever and so it was very, everything was done, seat of the pants and intuition and understanding what the driver was telling you. So we, Jean Claude and Harvey pushed Ken, perhaps against Ken's better judgment but in the end he put faith in them and I think the faith was rewarded to change to perrelli because perrelli would give us the data, we were not a top five team and Gugia only gave top five teams the tire data, the stiffness of the tire you needed to be able to predict the car's behaviour with, we can only get that from perrelli. Sam thanks for getting that stuff from Nigel, we'll hear from him again later in the episode, perrelli had only been back in F1 a year at this point, how much of a gamble was this for Tyrell to make the last minute change away from what was the dominant Gugia tires? In one sense it was a big gamble but actually Tyrell at that stage was in a position where it didn't have a massive amount to lose, it had little expectation on its shoulders other than those of Ken Tyrell himself who always talked to their chances. You know he was the consummate optimist wasn't him, we loved him for it but it had no ties to manufacturers at that time, few commercial responsibilities and it was the archetypal racity in F1 at that time, even more so than Williams in my opinion, it was a pure racing entity so why not roll the dice with perrelli that had nothing to lose, we'd seen it some tracks in 189, notably Monaco where Stefano Modena took that brabham to a podium in Hungary, Alex Caffee qualified third, didn't get a result but showed that there was certainly one that pays in them and I think that provided some confidence to teams that actually perrelli was a worthwhile gamble and it could have an advantage on some low grip tracks and street circuits as we saw in Phoenix so why not give them a go, yes it was a late call, ideally they would have done a couple of weeks of testing but I don't think that was ever going to be a realistic prospect for Tyrell at that stage, I think Possilthway was a Harvey Possilthway was instrumental in this decision and remember that is early years in his own career been spent at Heskuth and also Wolff which were again underdog teams not dissimilar to Tyrell so he was in a good position to help rationalize these gambles and get the most out of them and sure enough not consistently but it did pay off for them certainly at Phoenix and Monaco that year. Lacey didn't take much time to get up to speed with the perrelies as he was fastest in his first session using them on the Friday morning in Phoenix which is remarkable, he went on to qualify fourth but that was made him only the third fastest perrelli driver as behind Pulsey to Gaelhar Berg as Gugiers Shod McClaren, we had Pierre Luigi Martinez Minardi second and Andrea D'Chezerez is a Delara third on perrelies, I mean somewhere Ed Straw is just basking in this grid lineup. Lacey spoke about this race for a special F1 DVD that was released a few years ago called Greatest Races and all of the content from that DVD has since made its way onto the F1 TV platform. He said that he told Ken Tyrell beforehand that he wanted to lead the race at the start and Ken told him I don't care what you do at the start, finish the race and Harvey Possilthway suggested it would be better to try leading the last lap. Lacey went on to explain that he made a perfect start and as he looked set to slot him behind Berger in second place at the first corner he thought that was enough but when he hit the brakes he felt the door open in front of him so he decided to go for it and pass Berger as well. So Andy Lacey goes from fourth to first in a matter of seconds here at Phoenix with a slightly cautious centre behind him sniffing around. Did Lacey ace this start or was Berger the pole man way too tentative in to turn one? I really enjoyed having to go back and rewatch the opening laps of this and speaking of Ed he must have been incredibly excited when you see a Eurobrain coming round having actually qualified for once. Well I tweeted about this, I tweeted a screen grab of Marino's Eurobrain in front of Mansles Ferrari because he qualified in front of him and I think Ed's response was I hadn't shouted out there was a LaRouche in front of behind the grid so that's what he I mean that shows how good those fairly qualifiers were right, Eurobrain and qualifying in Ferrari. Anyway so Lacey does make a very good start but Berger actually makes a pretty decent one. It's just he tries to cover the entire width of that very wide track all in one go. Literally he goes from left to right, trying to cover off everybody. all at the same time before then sort of taking a very conventional line into the first corner. It does just leave the door wide open. I can imagine a lady could scarcely believe his luck. I mean, it's not even just a jar. It is fully wide open. I mean, if Senna had wanted to, he could have dived down in there as well. There was enough room for him to go for it. I mean, probably not wanting to crash into his teammate in the first corner. But it was a weird one. I mean, I sort of understand it because they would have known from before that the Prelli's maybe didn't have a longevity and they could play a long game. But this is Burgers first race at McClaren. He's out qualified Senna, which is something he would hardly ever do again and hardly had ever been done before. You think he'd really want to stamp his authority on it? Get in there, get that guy in between this a bit of a random unknown and really make something of it. So I was, especially as Burgers wasn't a particularly timid driver, it's not one of the things you would say when you recall in his career, he was really timid. But here, he does just roll over it. It's remarkable. But it did mean that we would have this amazing fight and this effectively unknown kid leading the race, which is what anyone ever really wants in the Grand Prix, isn't it? Well, from there, Elaci charged off into lead building a gap of around nine seconds in the early laps. Then once Burger crashed out of second place, so brilliant start to his McClaren career, Senna was released and started to eat into the Tyrell's advantage. Speaking about his time out in the lead for the F1 greatest races segment, Elaci said, "I was laughing, I was so happy. I had a V8 engine and the others had a V10 or a V12, so they had more fuel than me and my car was lighter. So during the first part of the race, that was my time. I had to do the maximum." Senna said he was pacing himself in the early laps, wanting to wait for his fuel load to go down and to see how Elaci's parallel tires held up. But he said Elaci was driving very well and described him as aggressive but precise and Senna knew it was going to be difficult to find a way past. At the time, Elaci said, "I was driving every lap like a qualifying lap, but obviously that couldn't continue. I was sure I wouldn't win the race. I'm a realist. But I decided to hold onto the lead for as long as possible. That's why I pushed so hard from the beginning. I was at 100%. As fun as that is Sam, might Elaci have had a genuine shot at winning this race if he tried to pace himself a bit more or was he right that Senna was always going to get him? So why not charge up the road and get away from everyone else? I tend to think the latter is more likely and sort of that John actually had it covered in terms of what he said there. Don't forget the till had no testing on the prellies at whatever whatsoever. They had no real data. It was a complete unknown for them and so too for the driver on how to try and get the best out of them. So trying to gauge on how they would behave over 78 or 80 laps or whatever it was around a street track like Phoenix was always going to be marginal, I think. I also don't think you can expect a guy with seven grand prize under his belt to think strategically in a very focused way as others such as Senna and more experienced drivers would have been doing during a long-grand pre like that. He'd just taken a grand pre lead for the first time in his career and as he says he could barely believe what he had beneath him. So it was a temporary rocket ship that he had and knowing that there was going to be this drop off in that Senna's fuel levels were going to come down. It was always going to be the case that he was going to get caught. It's rare that a driver can pull off leading a grand pre in such fashion at such an early stage of their career. I mean I can't remember that many in that era that were able to do that. I mean Yana Trulli did it in the in Austria a few years later but I don't recall even in Senna's 84 season there was no way he was going to you know Monacoa part which had some extraordinary circumstances. There was nowhere no way he was going to lead a grand pre. So it was remarkable but certainly on race pace that day Senna had a clear advantage and it told eventually over the course of the whole grand pre. Senna said he called to Lacey once they got into the back markers and Lacey said slowly slowly I saw him coming and I said okay let's wait for the fight. I had no chance except making a bit of fun of it and that's what I did. On lap 34 Senna passed Lacey down the inside at the first corner but as he took the normal racing line into the next bend Lacey shot straight into the gap Senna had left on the inside to retake the lead. Senna said he didn't expect Lacey to come back at him where the track was so dirty that he said he took a chance and he did well. Senna said he had to open the door otherwise they would have crashed but he called the battle exciting. A lap later Senna did it again and this time he will and truly blocked the inside line into turn two. It was definitely established world champion telling a new hot shot you are not doing that again. But Lacey then kept trying to find a way by in the next few corners and Senna just about held him off. Senna cruised away to victory after that and he praised Lacey afterwards saying he drove a fantastic race. Lacey said he was happy to be second and it was an honour to fight with Senna who had been his hero before Lacey made it to F1. And obviously Lacey goes on to finish on Napoleon which is incredible but do you think this battle with Senna is a bigger part of Lacey's Phoenix legend than the fact that he led the first 34 laps of this race? Yeah I think it absolutely is but I think it's purely because of who he was fighting with. Had it been anyone else with greatest respect? Had it been burger or boots or nannini or whatever? I don't think that would have been the story. The story then would have been that Lacey had led all this time and then they'd gone on to win. But the fact it was air and Senna established by that point as the fastest driver in F1 but also probably the hardest to pass the most uncompromising, the wildest in battle. I mean a number of times him and Mansell had been pirouetted. Our friend Attrac could have had a last three or four seasons but I'm believable. For him to send it at the inside so beautifully and confidently was just absolutely awe-inspiring. I remember watching it at a time when I was jumping up and down cheering it was that good. And like you say when he tried it again and then just didn't leave it you know he's having a little dive here, he's having a little look there. He's not letting it go and I really wish he'd managed to get him again because we knew that the pace that Senna had he was going to disappear up the road but we could have had a couple more laps of that would have been absolutely amazing. But it is it's one of those things that's just seared in your memory. Now you can picture where the car's eye, you can picture how he does it. It's so absolutely iconic. I think with the pictures have to go the words and I remember James Hunt's fabulous commentary on that whole battle when he said there are two things that stood out. He said when Lacey did the movie said that's a bit cheeky isn't it? And then he comes back and he goes sloppy Senna, sloppy Senna. I mean just perfect James Hunt and I think he'd be remiss for us not to mention that. Yeah we always love shouting out the commentators here such a big part of watching F1 of course as wheel were back then sat at home on TV. Next time out at Brazil Lacey narrowly missed out on a point to Nelson P.K on the final lap much to Andy's relief. But in the seven week gap between rounds two and three imagine that today. I don't if you had a seven week gap could you get 24 races in still? Anyway Tyrell maybe if you did it in January to February. Tyrell's definitive 1990 car the 019 finally broke cover and actually one of our Twitter responses described the described it as a Mandela effect that you imagine Lacey battling Senna in the high nose Tyrell but of course he wasn't he was in the old car. So yeah as I've mentioned it this is the famous raised nose design. Possilthweight said the high nose improves underbody aerodynamics and allows more air to flow under the part of the car where it will produce more suction. Tyrell said at the time that part of the thinking was that it wanted to try something new and an attempt to get ahead and Possilthweight added if you're in a situation like we are where you don't have a powerful engine to find an advantage one must exploit the chassis to the full and seek out more radical solutions. If we had air to the center and Honda power we'd probably do something different. Well I'm glad they didn't I'm glad they didn't have center and Honda and we got this car. During testing of which there was plenty during that seven week gap. Lacey was right on the pace with the new car which he said felt more responsive and had better grip traction and top speed than the old car. Before we discuss it let's hear from Nigel Beresford again as he explained to Sam the other key feature that Tyrell was using at the time that was helping give it so much performance. It was a fantastic car. 018 019 were kind of half brothers really because the 019 was essentially 018 with the with the raised front end and and some tidied up details around the back end but it was they were both monoshock front suspension which was an innovation brought about like all innovations through necessity which was the necessity being that the whole problem when you were trying to set up a car in those days when you didn't have things are active differentials or whatever was you had to compromise you had to compromise between either having a car which was which was good in slow to slow corners or Good at high speed, but you kind of couldn't have both because The the stiff springing and the and the attitude the the rake that you wanted for high-speed stability was unsuitable for agility and and The ability to to attack She canes and that kind of thing at low speed what the monoshock did for us was it separated The vertical stiffness of the car and the roll stiffness of the car at the front which meant you could have a nice soft roll stiffness so the drivers could attack She canes aggressively and you could then Use the the stiffer central front spring to give high vertical stiffness which you needed in order to keep the the front of the car At the correct type of ride height of what you needed To make it more comfortable for the driver high speed and then at the back You could you'd use nice soft springs which would heave down onto bump rubbers So the car would Change rake the whole point was that basically you changed rake of the car Depending on whether it was a high or low speed the error map program allowed us to predict that the use of Preready tires allowed the error map program to be accurate because we knew how stiff the tires were and So it was all it was all part of a package which worked tremendously well and so it like I say you had You had this weapon and then you just needed a guy like Sean a lazy to get in it and use it and Get the most out of it which he which he most certainly did Sam great insight again there from Nigel But let's focus on the visual bit that you don't have to be an engineer to Understand as it's most basic level anyway when you saw that nose Did you realize immediately that Tyrell had set a trend that was going to define F1 car design for for decades to come? Although F1 cars of that era were so different visually from one another I still remember being completely wowed by this weird wall racy Front to the to the 019 it looks absolutely mega just so purposeful like it was sort of grimacing and Manacing all at the same time. I absolutely loved it. I'm not sure anyone looked at it and thought that Mischio and Postel the way it begun a new era of design philosophy though. I you know, I'm sure that the likes of Adrian Neue and John Barnard Analyzed it Forensically, but certainly outside of you know as mere fans. It I don't recall it being the kind of Duriga thing that you had to have But obviously, you know, we were on that there was this innovation that was gonna gonna come to the look of the cars as well as the Practicality of the moment Nigel mentioned the monashok front suspension though which sat at top the turban. It also had some Clever springs as well that worked in harmony with it and We're on the either end of the torsion bar which really led the way at that time in terms of some innovative Work from the designers. It was all in a package of Clever engineering and they had such strength in depth of engineering talent that Tyrell as well as As well as Nigel himself. There was obviously a design element of Mischio Postelthweight Mark Hanford was a very young Mark Hanford was part of Tyrell and that that era So they had a really strong strength in depth design office there a lot of ingenuity and I think it was perhaps the last of its kind in some respect That that that you could have a team such as Tyrell that was threatening to to lead and win races on such a meager Budgie in F1. I mean possibly that was the last time in F1 that the the an entity of that nature could. Could get those results and threaten the bigger team to were on so much more money had so much more spend than spending power than that team But as for setting a trend I can't claim to think it would become at that time such a copied trade for the early to mid 90s period But it but it clearly did and I think once people saw the advantage of the combination of Monashok and and this this and he draw front and how it worked in giving the car more downforce then it was it was a no brainer for the For the technicians to to get creative and effectively change the look of Early 90s to mid 90s Grand Prix cars Has the word and he draw ever been used in any of the comics. It's a good question. I was almost going to shout it out when when when Sam was describing the look of it I thought we've got to say an he draw someone has to say it was a muri walker thing wasn't I remember muri walker using an he draw as much as he used You know so a lot of the phrases he's super positive Yeah, I think he could he could cut the an he draw atmosphere with a cricket stump Also around this time a lacy was interviewed by a Joe Saywood for auto sport and he was asked about his future beyond 1990 he said Tural was a fantastic team to be with to learn f1 and talked up the fact it would have Honda engines for 1991 but he also said he was only contracted for 1990 and that the option in his contract for 91 had not been signed yet and this was contrary to something Tural had said in February when he claimed he had already taken that option up a lacy said it was too early to talk about the possibility of driving for Ferrari McLaren or Williams, but he added if I want to be successful I have to be with the best team at the right time Those words will come back to bite him In 1991 and 92 And the as we'll come to later we know that by this point a lacy had actually already signed something with Williams Do you think this interview is his way of making a first signed publicly and perhaps to Tural The his ambitions were already moving beyond Scrapping it out driving for a plucky underdog Well, I think this is a demonstration of a ambitious young driver that's reveling in being in the form of his career The rain in Formula 3000 champion he's effectively been the star Probably a quarter of the f1 race as he's done to that date Um, and you don't he wouldn't have to have been a genius to realize that that time his stock was absolutely soaring And of course he was right, you know if he was going to be world champion Um, he needed to get into race winning car as soon as possible Um, we've seen you know that you can only be the flavor of the month for so long And if you don't capitalize on that and you know we'll get into what ultimately happened to a lacy further down the line And you missed the boat Doesn't always come around again and you and you can spend your career Being oh one of those guys that would have been if only he'd been in the right car at the right time so um I think it would show exactly what I would want to see for a young driver in the position that he was in then You know if he was if he wasn't going to bag a big move off the back of what he was doing at Tural at this time I don't think he was ever going to Also in that interview a lacy had highlighted Monaco hungry and hereth as the races where he thought Tural could spring more surprises So all the twisty tracks and of Monaco he said he thought he could do better there than he did in Phoenix And he said if he couldn't win perhaps this time he could lead 50 laps as it happened He didn't lead any because Senna took care of that from lights to flag But a lacy mugged prost for second on the opening lap at Mirabot and then tried to do the same on A restart after a red flag which is actually caused by burger plowing into prost after a lacy had passed him Prost covered it a second time unlike uh Monza later in a year But a lacy was released into second place when the Ferrari broke down and he held off burger to the end to claim another Street circuit second place But how much of those results were a lacy's brilliance and how much was down to Porelli's tires even Frank Williams who As we've mentioned had already signed a contract with lacy at this point Said publicly in a summer of 1990 You have to ask yourself how much of those amazing performances is chassis or tires A lacy's races Monaco and Phoenix apart haven't been that competitive Sam when a lacy bagged this result on his first f1 start at Monaco Was this further proof that a lacy was the real deal or do he have to take into account the Porelli factor And did that actually make it hard to judge exactly how well a lacy was doing I tend to go with the fact that a lacy was flattering the Porelli's honestly and that's not just because I was a fan of a lacy I think if you look at the hard evidence At Monaco he was 1.4 seconds quicker than the next Porelli runner which was Pelleuigi Martini in the Minardi but importantly he was ahead of a McLaren a Ferrari both Williams and both Benatons at Monaco I mean that that's impressive for his first effort to go on prey on the on the streets of the principality and And actually for it's just the second race of this new car as well So there was still a lot of development that they hope to get from that that whole package and but a lacy's talent was so It burned so bright That I think that 1.4 seconds I mentioned and Pelleuigi Martini was the guy who was ahead of him on the grid in Phoenix and my Artini was a bloody good driver in '89 to '91. He was at his peak and probably was a very underrated competitor. To have that margin on a track like Monaco where talent rules, I think actually there is a strong case to say that Alacy was actually flattering the Pirelli rubber rather than what Frank William said. In my mind looking at it now, three decades on and more, it seems even more fantastic that with a customer Cosworth Pirelli tires in a team on whatever presented you want to guess at in terms of difference to the big competitors. As a deficit, Alacy was able to finish that Grand Prix less than two seconds behind at the centre who admittedly dominated the race and lost a load of time. I think with Derek Warwick when he spun at the chicane and he basically cruised to the flag. But Alacy was the only driver who took it to centre on that day. Again, he'd done it twice in what now, four races. I think it's forgotten just how sensational that was. I don't put much credence to what Frank William said. Maybe Frank was thinking of the long game there. Maybe Frank was thinking what might be to come with a whole mess of what he signed with Alacy and how that played out, which obviously we're going to come onto. I think it's a strange way of analysing it really because surely the race is where he's not a factor. You would say, well, that's because of the Pirelli's rather than the places where street tracks, famously where you can transcend the limitations of the package that you have rather than high aerosurker. It's almost impossible to go beyond what the package of car and tires have given you. So either it's deliberately naive to put people off the centre for what he's trying to do or it's a very strange way of looking at I think. I think you might be on to something we've put in people off the cent. As we mentioned, Alacy had signed some a deal with Williams in the offseason. Frank would later declare this was signed on the second of February. Alacy said an interview with Motorsport magazine in 2017 that the deal covered 1991, 92 and 93 and the contract said it would be announced that the French Grand Prix in July and if it wasn't, the agreement would switch from being a full-blown contract to just an option on Williams' side until September. It's a little surprise I think here and that to hear that Alacy's lawyer told him to get Williams to take that clause out. But Frank said he couldn't because Renault paid the driver's salaries and Frank hadn't told Renault about signing Alacy yet, but he said February to July would give him enough time to convince them to go for it so it would all be fine. Alacy's lawyer then asked John if he trusted Frank and Alacy said I have to. He's Frank Williams so in the end he signed the deal with all of those terms attached. And before we get into what happened next and try to look at this without the benefit of hindsight which is always difficult, was Alacy silly to sign up to those terms with Williams? Well there are bizarre terms aren't they? And yeah I can understand why you would pose the question but I can see from Alacy's point of view it's Williams, one of the grandi teams in the championship and you've got this opportunity as I said earlier, flavour of the month, you're going to want to grab that. But I sure there must have been someone else around him, he was good friends with Eddie Jordan, he'd obviously won 3000. There must have been someone else that could have advised him that they weren't the right terms for him to sign at the time. You know it's very easy to be dazzled by the bright lights and the opportunity and why wouldn't he want to get his bum in that car. But I think really that there was some big warning signs flashing there and there ought to have been someone else around him, other than his lawyer to put their arm around him and say look this isn't how it ought to be being done. So we get to the French Grand Prix weekend and Alacy bumped into Ferrari boss Chesare Fiorio. Fiorio had inquired about Alacy's future earlier in the season and was slightly put out when Alacy said he'd already signed with someone else but he wouldn't say who. By the French GP in Assamma Fiorio knew it was Williams but he warned Alacy that Frank wasn't going to be making the announcement he'd promised because Williams were trying to sign at and send her. Frank denied this when Alacy went to him but sure enough there was no announcement in France. Alacy then went to Nelson Pique who by now was acting as a kind of mentor for him in the F1 paddock and I think this is what Andy's talking about. If Pique had been there in February this might not have happened because when Pique heard what was going on he called Alacy an idiot. Pique's advice to Alacy was go to Ferrari and tell them to make a proposition and show it to Frank. If Frank doesn't sign you immediately go to Ferrari. Sam we was just talking there that Alacy needed someone giving him good advice was this good advice from Pique? Nelson Pique's professional advice consultancy limited. I'm not sure about that one. It's one hell of an unconventional mentor to have isn't it? I mean to be fair. I mean it's always good at getting money at people. Well I'm just thinking with that. Don't steal my thunder V2B just because you're an Uber fan of Nelson Pique. Actually as I was I've got a you know I think Pique was fantastic in period. He was pretty shrewd in his own career management wasn't he? He got into that Williams or you got into Williams just the right time. Got a title and a bunch of Grand Prix wins out of it. You know when he knew how to get the deals done. He'd been around the block. He'd been in F1 a decade by this stage. He had three championships. An ocean of money. So actually make you know although I poked some a bit of fun at the start there. Pique you could have done a lot worse than get some business advice from Pique and he was exactly the kind of driver that that would tell it as it is and did do. But what you have to appreciate is just how unprepared a lacy was at this stage of his career. V2B mentioned quite rally Eddie John's advice was was largely gone certainly on a formal basis by this stage because Andy was busy building his own F1 dreams of course during that summer. So John's brother Jose Lacey was managing his affairs at this stage. You know I'm not sure if that's the same. He probably had a different lawyer or maybe Jose Lacey was in the legal business I don't know but that was going to be a really tough ask at an early stage of a career and somebody who was attracting so much interest. So he must have felt like a real rabbit in the headlights that summer because he didn't have this protection around him. I think in typical PK fashion it probably was the right advice for Lacey just because it didn't have the stature knowledge of how to play the game with the power of hindsight which we try not to get involved in too much but inevitably you have to sometimes he should have stuck with the Williams option in my opinion. But that would have been a massive gamble as it played out and had man's that the mantle pantomime just was just starting up wasn't it the British Grand Prix and all the pseudo drama that that entailed. So it got massively complicated and the other thing we've not discussed is the conservatism of Williams and particularly Frank Williams in keeping drivers like Ricardo Patrazi who by that stage was not over the hill because he had a very good 1991 but certainly wasn't going to be the future of a top team and as hindsight going back to hindsight thing as as is known if Lacey would have been at Williams in 1991-192-193 he would certainly have won a bunch of Grand Prix if not won the 93 title you'd have to say. So yeah I think it was a rabbit and headlight situation there was a lot of panic on Lacey's side and I just think he got lost he got totally lost and I think that's well known that it rubbed off on some average performances after that Monaco weekend. So as Sam mentioned there the British Grand Prix as well is all really kicked off. Lacey confronted Frank Williams begging him to commit to the deal they agreed and to make it official in public. Williams said he didn't need to because they already had a contract together but Lacey reminded him it had now been downgraded to just an option and he wanted the deal to be announced because otherwise he was going to pursue other options. Williams knew this was about Ferrari and Lacey said Frank went mad that Lacey was talking to other teams. Lacey said on the F1 beyond the grid podcast that he got upset with Frank and said bad words to him before storming out. And by this point you know the French Grand Prix deadline has lapsed we know we're into the the weird option territory now is Lacey just being messed around by Williams here. I got a sense of deja vu here because I was listening to the Damon Hill episode one of this new series yesterday and obviously the key point and all of that is contract options with France and lawyers getting involved and Frank not necessarily being completely open with everyone and it really does feel like that's exactly what's happening here and Sam alluded to it. It's one of those classic Williams for all the brilliance in their engineer inside of things and the development, you know, technically in the car. They had this amazing habit of messing drivers around and trying to control the market, keeping all of their options open, which of course is understandable, right? You always want to be in the strongest possible position. But it's not really the reality of how things work. You can't have all the things that you want. It's a cake and eat it territory, right? You can't just keep stringing the Lacey out forever and then if you don't get Mansoul, oh, we'll bring him in. You know, it's like sticking with a girlfriend you're not particularly happy with because you've seen somebody else you fancy. And then it turns out she doesn't like you. Meanwhile, the other girls like, well, you're being a complete asshole to me. I'm off. You've got a sudden you've got you've got terrible options, right? At least either deal with what you've got or go for what you want rather than just trying to end up with nothing. What a brilliant analogy. On the Friday night at Silverstone, a Lacey met with Furio to discuss a move to Ferrari. On everyone's be on the grid podcast, he said he told Ferrari, if you give me a three year contract plus you take care of my buyout to Williams and Tyrell, I'll sign with you. So he wasn't asking for much. Ferrari agreed though. And a Lacey took written proof to Williams the next day telling Frank that either he signed a Lacey there and then or a Lacey was signing for Ferrari. John said Frank talked about his option and in a Lacey's words blah, blah, blah. So a Lacey walked out of the Williams motorhome and signed for Ferrari. This saga was detailed very well in a book called Red Missiles in the mid 1990s with input from Kent Tural, Eddie Jordan and a Lacey's brother Jose, who as we mentioned helped manage his career. In that book, Jose Lacey said the Williams deal carried performance clauses that would have been hard for John to live with. And it said that Williams had the right to replace a Lacey at any time if he's so desired. A Lacey got some help putting his Ferrari deal together as he showed it to PK who surprise surprise said the money was too low. So PK added a million dollars on demanded a Ferrari F40 on a Lacey's behalf and made sure it was a firm three year contract with no options prompting Ferrari president Pierro Fissaro to remark that the Lacey was really prepared for a young driver. Sam faced with Williams's reluctance to commit do you think a Lacey did the right thing here by storming off to Ferrari because they were more keen to sign him. And they were more competitive at that stage in 1990 they were more competitive proposition and you have to caveat everything with the emotional reaction to as the Sicilian parts of his DNA would have would have been buzzing around and you know any interest from the Scuderio would have been. Very flattering so there's the emotional part of it to so taking all that into account he was he doing the right thing I think I think he probably was because Williams was just. So object in trying to put its pieces together for 91 and this is it without even as talking about the whole mantle scenario that played out that summer too. But if if Lacey would have stopped and looked at what was happening with Williams in a bigger picture you know that there were a couple of years now into the Renault partnership they were winning a few. Grand Prix with boots and a portrays the perfectly capable duo but not the top line duo Adrian Newe had started work in July at. Did caught as it was then and actually long term Williams made a lot more sense from a long term perspective but only with the knowledge that you would have had with what's going on. Conversely Ferrari because Ferrari was descending into a complete mess you know just are a few or was that only had a few moments left in his position there was this bizarre committee of Ferrari running for a rate that stage the Montezembre handle come back Todd was few years down the. Down the road it was a rudderless ship and perhaps if Lacey had had somebody full time looking after him then he would have realized that and and done what it would have done whatever it took to to be a Williams driver in 91 so. He was still in a reasonably strong position he still had what he considered time a top line Formula 1 team after him remember the average age of drivers in that period is something else to take into consideration you know most of them. PK Mansell props were in their mid 30s you know center was the youngest of that bunch he just turned 30 in 1990 even the next strata of drivers at that stage Nany and he burger we're in their early 30s Lacey was just a completely fresh proposition that teams could mold. Or hope to mold into the next star of the the the sort of early to mid 90s and until she make a came along Lacey was was that person you know he was that guy so it's just unfortunate to hide himself in knots and couldn't play it a lot cooler and see things. What was going on you know what was the bigger picture it all seem very reactionary and and I think that was the ultimate failing had he or representative known about all these traits then he could have played things a lot differently I feel and it would have been a lot better for his career. I will give you the benefit of the doubt actually on Ferrari versus Williams Ferrari look great in the summer of 1990 Williams as you say it wasn't quite clear yet if the Renault thing was going to come good and even if you knew they signed Adrian you at that point Adrian you was a guy who. I built a really good car in 1988 and since then had pretty much failed to sort out a troubled late in house car for 18 months and I don't think anyone should have known that he was about to become a legendary f1 designer who is still involved in world championship winning cars today so I'll let a Lacey have that but so why let's try and get into why did Frank Williams string a Lacey along. While he had signed a Lacey up since February as Frank said publicly he'd been talking with Nigel Manson through the first half of the year Matt said in his mid 1990s or spography the he and Williams had agreed the bones of a deal for 1991 that summer but just before this silverstone weekend Frank said he couldn't offer mansular drive because in Frank's words Senna's coming to us and as you might remember that was what Chesare Fiorio had told a Lacey was going on. The previous race in France however Senna ultimately used that Williams offer to get a better deal at McLaren and Williams then went back to Mansour at the time when it's option on a Lacey was still technically active. Jose Lacey said in the red missiles book we knew that Frank had signed Ricardo Patrazi that he'd proposed a contract to Senna and he was discussing with Nigel Mansour if John had stayed with them he would have been relegated to a test driver. Andy let's look at that then does the fact that Williams went off to Senna and Mansour despite having signed a contract with a Lacey mean that Lacey was just the backup to kind of pick up on your earlier analogy. Well we know how much Frank had covered Senna right from that first time when he tested with them in 83 and clearly they'd been a very strong bond with Mansour through the time they were together although you could never be sure from one race to another whether he was going to announce his retirement in a fit of peak or not. So you have to conclude that Lacey was always a fallback nice to have option you know the fast new kid on the block that regardless of how many bits PK was able to add on was still going to be considerably cheaper than whatever Mansour or Senna were asking for. So it does make sense for them to cover their basis if both of those are falling through well we've got a perfectly good guy here he's almost certainly as quick if not quicker than Patrazi and potentially somebody you can build a team around for the future there was as Sam said they it's not something that they'd really been known for not really since you know Rosberg came there and that was only really by default. They've been a chance and there are with young drivers so it sort of makes sense for them very much on a business level but on a human and emotional level it's not a particularly nice way to deal with people but then when his life and business ever been fair. Yeah I wonder if there was an element of talent farming going on here kind of get the guy on the contract and if you don't need him someone else has happened has then got to pay you to get their hands on him but in that red missiles book both Ken Tyrell and Eddie Jordan say it was a mistake to go to Ferrari. Ken called it a huge error not because of Williams's success in the years that followed but because a lacy wasn't ready to drive for Ferrari Tyrell felt that a lacy didn't improve as a driver during his first two years there because he was too inexperienced. Eddie Jordan said he told a lacy he wasn't ready to go there and Eddie admitted to being furious when he found out a lacy had sorted himself a deal with Ferrari because Jordan felt it was too early. But both of these mentors accepted that Ferrari was a childhood dream of a lacy's and there was nothing they could do to stop him. Let's look at that theory about it being too early Sam do you think that was the case you know as you described Ferrari was an absolute cauldron in this era was that too much for a driver so inexperienced probably yes. Although there's also the sense he needed to hone what he had to, you know, this was a, as I alluded before, this was a bright red hot roar and innate skill that he had and this fighting instinct. I don't think anyone's disputed that in a lacy. It was just applying that and executing races which he always struggled with throughout his whole career. He always struggled, hence winning but won Grand Prix. But it's easy to underestimate, again, the buzz that was around lacy in 1990. It genuinely had the air of, for me anyway, it had a bit of an air of the whole Sena thing in '84 about it and perhaps maybe the fervor was a bit too much and maybe we're as guilty as others for ramping it up. But I'm just telling you what it felt like as a fan at that time and I think that transposed to elements of the paddock, I think, in the lacy was the, you know, the next big multi-champion and the waiting. I also think that he had what he needed to be ready in some respects because he had a mentor-improst and when he went to Ferrari in '91, I think if it hadn't been for that debacle at Ferrari which descended into civil war and just an amess of a team and they were effectively midfield runners for large parts of '91. It was always going to be hard for a young driver to try and patch that up and become the de facto leader in the team once prostrated, a checked out which was pretty much, you know, four or five races from the end of that season anyway, wasn't it? The argument for not being ready as Eddie John suggests, I think was only partially, only has partial validity because of John's, just his own nature as a driver, he wasn't an Uber analytical driver, he had natural feel, he acted on instinct and when things went wrong like at Heres in 1990 and he dumped it off, people immediately assumed that he just needed more time, but I think there's a case for stating that drivers of that era in particular needed more grand pre under their belt because there was just so much more, there was just so much more scope for improving cars and getting cars consistently into the points. Sennheur and Schumacher were probably the only exceptions in terms of winning races in their second seasons around that time. At Lacey, I think even if you'd have gone to Williams in '91 with Patrazi, you know, I think there's a case for saying that potentially Patrazi could have ended up with more points than him and more scope for winning grand pre's that year. We've talked a lot then about the two teams trying to sign a Lacey, but what about the one he left? In the Red Missiles book, Ken Tirol said he wasn't happier Lacey was leaving despite Tirol holding this option on him for '91 and '92. Ken said once more, I gave a kid a chance and he dropped me like a brick when it suited him. Ken said he didn't pursue the matter legally with the Lacey Orpharari, adding, "Experience has taught me that it's useless to try to keep a driver who wants to go." Before we discuss that, let's hear from Nigel Beresford one last time, as he can give us the perspective from those working directly with Lacey in the team and how they felt when he got his move. We were very unfashionable and all of a sudden that, yeah, there was this huge amount of attention, but the backstory wasn't just the fact that Lacey was clearly being courted strongly and it was a distraction to him and as I say in the background, there was this slow chipping away at the infrastructure as well. Ferrari started going after Jean-Claude, Cheyenne Villadelle Pratt, a huge part of modernising the operations of the team and making it look slicker and smarter. He was being courted by Benet on and obviously the big banner departure was Jean and he certainly distracted. I mean, we weren't churlish when he told us that he was going to Ferrari. We were as excited for him because we loved him so much and he was getting, you know, what he wanted more than anything else, which was a Ferrari drive, you know, a French Sicilian kid. He was more Sicilian than French, really. Getting his dream come true, you know, it would be pretty mean not to want the best for him, but he was, he certainly was a bit moodier and there was a famous kind of press conference, which was more like a gathering around a table at the motorhome with Ken and Jean, you know, to try and clear up what was going on. But it was inevitable and at the time it was definitely, you know, very sad that we were losing Jean, but it's, you know, in the end, if somebody doesn't want to work for you in racing or whatever you, you know, it's no point in keeping them around. And he lets pick up on Ken Tyrell's point if we can about being drops like a brick by a Lacey. Do you sympathise with Ken over that? Yes and no. And I can see why he might feel he was owed some loyalty, you know, gave the guy a chance, gave him a big break. And, but, you know, just raining Formula 3000 champion, it's likely somebody was going to do that. It's not as if that was the only route he was ever going to have into F1. But I think Lacey didn't owe them anything, right? He dragged them out the Maya. We mentioned at the top it was 89 was their best finish since 79, you know, okay, they won a couple of races in the, the DFE era with Alberto, but they'd been on a downward steep downward trajectory for a while. And the 88 car was absolute dog. In fact, I've driven that car. I drove that 88 Tyrell around Mallory Park on one of those driving days, not that I'm any judge of Formula 1 cars or anything. To me, it was pretty amazingly fast. But in the, did you look at it and go, what you need to do is raise the nose. So, and I have a massive spacer at the back. That was it like seven centimeters after the gearbox or something that they put. Anyway, I think it was a Julian Bailey car either way. They were in the doldrums. They were going nowhere, right? The early part of 89, Alberto had come in and had slightly helped them pick up performances, but it's only really when Lacey was in that car that they were then fighting it front. They would come and name again. And on the back of that, you know, they did the Honda deal. They had the big bronze sponsorship in 91 and they became a much stronger team as a result. But history shows, they didn't take them long to river to the mean of where they were before. I mean, if you stayed around for 91, you probably would have done a little bit better than the moderner did. Maybe a monochemicide. But I don't, they were going backwards. I don't think they would really struggle to kept the level that they were right. So I can see why Ken was upset, but I don't think Lacey owed them anything. At the very next race after all that nonsense at Silverstone where everything was signed, but nothing was announced, the media speculation got too much for Lacey. He called a media gathering at Hockenheim where he sat with Ken Tyrell and pleaded with the media to stop reporting on the rumors about his future. Lacey told the media, "I'm going through a very difficult period right now. I'm not used to this kind of thing. I'm having trouble concentrating on my driving. And that's why I've gathered you together to tell you that I haven't decided anything concerning my future. I'd like that you let me finish this season in peace with Tyrell before we start discussing next year." Lacey said that Tyrell was helping him deal with the stresses of sorting his future, which as we know it was already sorted because he'd signed for Ferrari by now. And also I imagine was a rather bemused Ken then told the media that Lacey had asked him not to exercise his option for 1991. Ken said he didn't know where Lacey was going and that he hadn't felt the need to talk to him about it because as far as I'm concerned I already had a contract with him. This press conference, if we can call it that, went down terribly with the media who pointed out it was a Lacey signing contract left, right and centre. So it wasn't really the media's reporting of that that was the cause of all the problems here. Sam, I'm sure there are plenty of times you've been told to stop writing about stuff that you find out. Was this plea from Lacey to the media? A bit misguided? I think it was naive more than misguided. Again another indication that Lacey was a bit green when it came to how the wider world worked. He was obviously prodigiously talented at driving the cars but outside of the cockpit he still had a lot of grain up to do. The media weren't going to help a novice firebrand driver out whatever nationality they were or standing in the sport. And Anita should say, from a journalistic point of view this was a great story and I think I can speak for most of us here and potentially listening. You aren't going to give much slack if any at all to a driver who's got themselves in this position. You can sympathise, but professionally, through their own mismanagement, they've got themselves in this position. So, you know, you're under no obligation to help them out particularly. This wasn't F3 or F3000 anymore. This was the growing up stuff now, and I like to see realise that in a pretty brutal fashion. And I think it was dawning on him by then that at this stage of his career, he needed to be a bit more savvy on what was going on. I suspect that Cantiral might have been behind some of this plea, some more, in an effort to protect Elaci. In case he ended up shooting himself in both feet, the Williams foot and the Ferrari foot and staying on at Tirrell. But I think even Cant actually, having been around the block, probably knew that he was going to lose his star driver. I think for all Ken's wilderness, he was still a pure, he's still had this pure and honest view of the world. And perhaps he thought it would just die down and John would actually honour his contract, I don't know. But it was all, I've seen, I haven't seen a film of this press conference, but I've seen plenty of still pictures. There's a few in I think, Autocourse and Murray Walker's annual. And it just looks utterly chaotic. I mean, it just looked a bit embarrassing and a bit unseemly. But that's what it was at that stage. It was a bit of a circus. But even just looking at it as a journalist, the reason I struggled to sympathise is that he had signed all these contracts. By now in his mind, his future was resolved. None of it was public. It wasn't like he was a free agent who hadn't made his mind up yet and everyone was going crazy with the coverage as they would and as they would be entitled to. But, you know, Elaci was withholding some of the truth in his plea. You know, and he's saying, I haven't decided anything concerning my future. It's like, well, you have. You've decided to bin Williams off and sign for Ferrari. So we can't be too sympathetic. But this story got even more bizarre in the middle of September. So we still have nothing announced by now because rumors then broke that Alessandro Nenini had signed to race for Ferrari in 1991. Just a week after that, Elaci's move to Ferrari became official and Tyrell announced that he was being released despite the team having a binding contract. A week later, Nenini explained his side of this story. He said he'd agreed a two year contract with Ferrari, but when he went to Maranello to sign it, it would become a one year deal with two more years as options. Nenini refused to sign that and was promised it would be adjusted. But when he flew out to Switzerland to sign it again, it hadn't been changed, so he refused again. Speculation in the press at the time suggested that the Nenini story was applied by Ferrari to get Frank Williams to release Alessandro. Frank did that in the end. He got money and an ex-mansell Ferrari race car in the process. And for many years, that was the only non-Williams to be on display in the Williams Museum, which I just love. But Andy, if Ferrari had gotten Nenini instead of Alessandro Nenini and before anyone listening gets wise and says, well, Nenini's F1 career was about to end due to his helicopter accident, let's assume that doesn't happen and Nenini does race on into 1991. How do you think Nenini Ferrari could have worked out? Yeah, this is an excellent question. I spent quite a lot of time thinking about this. I think at the point where he was in his career then, Nenini would have been quite a good fit for Ferrari. And no, he was very Italian with his love of espresso and cigarettes and all of that. But from what I understand, he was actually quite laid back, wasn't too political, didn't really get involved in any of those sort of shenanigans and as Sam alluded to a few times, the atmosphere in Ferrari at that time was literally all over the place. So if you could allow that to wash over you, you would have been in a very good position. And he was definitely quick. In 1990, he had some really strong races, Hock and Heimler, he drove really well there and he was seemingly coming to that apex of his talent and was probably just about deserving of a move into a big team if we don't look a little bit down the line and where Ben and Tom were going to be. So yeah, I think he would have been a good fit there. I think in actual fact, he might have done a little bit better in 91 than Elacia ultimately did. And I think his knowledge of the good year tires, I think his experience, like Sam said, you know, well, Lacey made a few rookie errors, sophomore errors, whatever the experience, whatever the phrase should be due to his lack of experience. Well, that's what we thought at the time. It was just a Lacey being at being a Lacey. That Nenini wouldn't have made, right? He wasn't somebody you'd chucked off the road very much or whatever and I think him and Prost would have been a decent lineup there until it all imploded at least. What he wouldn't have had any ability to control was the total dogs of cars that Ferrari would produce in 92 into a lesser extent, 93. I don't think you could have done anything with those. And in fact, Lacey was probably the absolutely perfect person to deal with those. We see how we buried Cappelli in 92 just by grabbing it by the scruff of the neck and throwing it around sort of at pro pro of nothing. That Portugal 93 race where Lacey manages somehow to get that car into the lead at the first corner is my absolute favorite Lacey Ferrari moment. But I don't think Nenini would ever have been loved by Ferrari and a Tafosi in the same way that Lacey was. But I think it could have been an interesting sign. It was a real shame that we never really got to see what he did and what he was able to go on and achieve as a touring car and sports car driver despite his physical limitations show just how talented a race and drive really was. Agreed. Lacey described the news of his Ferrari deal as one of the best moments of his career and he said he could finally get back to concentrating on his driving. Speaking about the off track pressure at the end of the year in an interview of auto sport he said that as the year went on things got worse and worse and every time he arrived as a race there was pressure all the time. Reflecting on this in 2017 he called 1990 a terrible season because every race I was in Frank's motorhome Ferrari's motorhome it was not nice. I know Sam that when we talked about the Hockenheim press conference we weren't very sympathetic but was this all too much for an F1 newcomer to be expected to deal with? Well it shouldn't have been really he'd been a professional driver now for four years and he'd gone up the single seat of ladder. He'd been part of the Marlborough scheme, a young driver scheme along with others like Mika Hackenheim and Alan McNish. He just didn't have that system that sort of strength around it. It was just he had a very idealistic vision of been a racing driver which I'm not criticizing because it's why I loved him and I'm sure many others did but at that stage even though it wasn't the Uber professional F1 as we know today it was still commercially orientated. So you had to have your ducks in a row. I think the basic requirement for most professional drivers at that time should have been a strong management representation. And as I've mentioned the Lacey just didn't have that. But then again remember that Senna got himself into a bit of a pickle didn't he at Tolman in '84 when he was effectively suspended from the Italian Grand Prix at a monster that year because of signing the Lotus deal. So it just so happened that Lacey I think took it all to a just a new level in 1990 and it just became as we've discussed this circus. Is there some inevitability that a new and young driver will get into these types of situation and shoot back at the didn't he in in Monza after his debut at Spa. But at least he had the experienced hand of or the hands of Willy Weber and Tom Walkins who are around him to guide him and Lacey just didn't have that. So I think if there's any sympathy or any sort of contextualisation then it should be just that Lacey was just too focused on his natural talent on the track and didn't have the team around him off it. While Lacey could get back to focusing on his driving in the final races of the year the season didn't exactly end with a flourish. He crashed out at the start of the Spanish Grand Prix as we mentioned that was a clash with Gerhard Berger and Ricardo Patrezi after Lacey had qualified fourth. He missed the Japanese Grand Prix with a neck injury after a massive crash on the Friday and he described his eighth place finish in the season finale in Australia which back then of course didn't get you any points as the hardest race of his career partly because he had the flu. It's all amounted to Lacey finishing ninth in the championship as he had in 1989 when he'd only contested roughly half the season. He scored five more points this time with a tally of 13 but he only finished in the points three times and never again after that podium at round four in Monaco. Here all meanwhile despite the ground breaking car design scored exactly the same number of points as they had in 89 just 16 and they were miles off breaking into the top four teams as they'd hoped to at the start of the year. Andy looking at the year overall did those two peaks in Phoenix and Monaco. asked what was actually quite a disappointing season for a lacy and for Tyrell? Yeah the highs were definitely high and I think when you look at this next to those expectations like you say they're aiming for top four in the in the championship and you know really seeking a massive renaissance it does look really underwhelming but I think that that does an injustice to actually what had happened you know with the exception of Phoenix he was never outqualified by another Perrelli runner and as Sam said Nimoniko 1.4 seconds quicker than that in the races that he finished he was never beaten by another Perrelli shot car although obviously he's going up against Menardi's Brabham's and Dolores so make of that what you will but you can only beat what you're up against so I think it's almost impossible to see this season out of the context of what the tyres were doing at the time you know they were clearly unaffected by the demands of street tracks where traditionally softer tyres are the ones that you want but anywhere where longevity and you know proper raceworthiness wearing was required they were they were left wanting you know so you would it always well I think there are two or three exceptions you'd qualify in the top ten normally somewhere between fourth and seventh which you know I'd say that's pretty good going in a car that's ultimately finishing wherever it does in the championship um he makes a few mistakes right he bends it off in Monza after making those cracking starts that we were talking about um he has that pointless crash with Martini and Hungary you alluded to the start in he actually makes a poor start at her death and that's part of the problem he swirves to try and go Ryan Berger and Clips Petraiseys from Weasley Petraiseys go up in the air and then he gets a punch and goes off but these I think they're the classic hallmarks of somebody dragging more performance out of the car than is actually there when your teammate you can't even see on that part of the greeno when the grid scrolling this is a few seconds to leap hops up you know you're clearly doing something right um but the results aren't there it's difficult to put all of that in the door or unfair to put all of that in the door the performance of the driver and actually the performance of the car as well just from those opening lapset Monza where that car legitimately is quicker in a straight line than a Ferrari Monza despite there being a horsepower deficit of 60 70 horsepower it's huge between the V12 and the DFR right they were doing something right with that car but there's another component there that's not working and I think that's that was the tire so in terms of pure results incredibly disappointing but I think if you looked beyond that you know there were reasons to think that a lacy was and I would say probably that's the highest level he ever performed that in F1 really and it was just a massive unfortunately a massive disappointment from then on but and how much of that was a car how much of that was the overall package how much was that way when he bonded with the tires all of these things are impossible to know but we never saw a lacy in that same way you just watching Monster in those curbs in Monza there's a bit where he takes about four tenths for a second out of the two McLaren just through the first she came he just hammers it through there so much more committed now it's like it's on burgers tail by the time he comes out of it it's like it was like four five tenths away when they were coming down the main straight but yeah unfortunately we never saw that again except for maybe a few times in a way Donington in a DTM or or something like that but I really wanted to believe right it's like the x-fast I wanted to believe that a lacy was the next superstar in waiting and I think the evidence was there in 90 but it was a fleeting glimpse and unfortunately we never saw that again I looked at the auticross head of doing this as I'm sure you did as well Glenn and they do their top ten which is caveated by it all been assembled due to the talent and skill that the driver has shown during that season and I don't know I don't know who it's probably Alan Henry or Morris Hamilton I think did it in those days guess where they put a lacy for that season in the top ten V2B 7th Glenn third do you know no I don't know I'm saying third well I'm raising this because it's astonishing they put him ninth oh which I just thought was unbelievable Naneini I think boots and burger are ahead of him and I just think it's just amazing I hope that size audible just amazing obviously I have to do a double check double take I just couldn't believe that they put John lacy night in that's for that season honestly 90 burga's lucky to have made it into the top wow yeah well I guess we could say now looking back they saw what we all couldn't maybe a couple of our responses on Twitter there were other people who said 1990 was his best ever season as well and it was all downhill from there so yeah maybe maybe the decline had started in the second half of the year we'll leave it there on that glum note for lacy's memorable 1990 season I think it's safe to say that he didn't become the defining driver of the decade as was discussed at the beginning but he certainly made his mark on the years that followed and it's always fun when an lacy tail comes up from any of the years that he was on the grid when we do these thanks to Sam and to Andy for helping us pick our way through everything that went on during that season on and off track next time we're jumping forward to the end of the 1990s and the penultimate race of 1999 in Malaysia where Michael Schumacher made his comeback from a broken leg to hand victory to teammate Eddie Irvine only for it to be taken away for a technical infringement for about six days the athletic