S6E5 - Chief of Staff 101 ft. Kanika Khurana, Chief of Staff - Driving Strategic Priorities at Chargebee

[MUSIC] >> Welcome everyone, we're back again with another episode in the season of the SAS session's podcast. If you're tuning in for the first time, I'd like to personally welcome you to a listener base of over 17,500 people. Yes, like we recently crossed that milestone and thank you everybody for tuning in and making this happen. Couldn't have happened without the support from all of you. So yeah, coming into our today's guest, today we have Kanika Kurana from Charge B. She's currently the chief of staff at the CEO's office at Charge B. Chief of staff as a role is not very common at least in India and Kanika is the best person I know who's doing this role. So in this episode, we're going to talk about the chief of staff role and what are the responsibilities when it's a company ready to hire a chief of staff. And if you want to be one, how do you break out into this role? So all this and more with Kanika in this episode. So take Kanika, such a pleasure to have your show. >> Hey, Sunil, thanks so much for that very humbling introduction. I'm looking forward to sharing what I've learned and role and hopefully it will be a value at everyone which this is in. >> Yeah, I mean, I gave a very short intro Kanika. I attended your session at the Grodzex website in Grodze and it was a very, very comprehensive intro that I had. But if I had to summarize that, can you please tell us more about yourself and also your journey into SaaS? >> Yeah, absolutely. You know, thanks for asking that question. So I am a journalist with about 10 plus years of work experience and that varies across industry and function and roles. I sat in my career with Mamun Sandi at the bank very early on realized banking of finance, not what I want to do and started a venture with a friend. I was 23 when we started to audit it. It was an online portal where women could research, shoot back, access to, to something like a fashion center, goelax. Learned a lot about building something ground up, got used to or introduced to the startup ecosystem then, which has been very close to my heart since. And then I, we couldn't just, we couldn't raise money and we couldn't scale. So I shut that and I went to Indian School of Business, Hyderabad. I was there a class of 17, 18. I specialize in marketing and strategy. And since then in about four years, I've been in program management, which essentially means, you know, I've been running multiple programs from budgeting to operations across the companies in the last four plus years. I transitioned to my current role, chief of staff in 2021. So I'm in this role about eight months. I guess we speak more about what I do and how I transition. But if I were to summarize in one line, I think it's been very dynamic, very exciting. And I do like to believe that this is the most reading part of my career so far. Interesting. And you know, we'd love to know what makes you think that for sure. So yeah, can you start with addressing what is chief of staff and what do you do? Like, you know, in your day to day job and what, what career role, sentence, responsibilities. I think, you know, before I talk about the chief of staff role, a call out would be that this role can really depend how the company defines it. Sort of all the roles that I know, you know, this can really really company to company organization to organization. What I mean by that is in some companies, it can be perhaps more operational, where you're just helping the CXO in a day on day operation. And then, the CXO versus in some companies, it can be more strategic for me at charge me. It's more of a strategic thinking partner. What do I mean by that? Okay, I do three things, right? First is I drive all strategic priorities for the CXO. I work with Rajaraman, who's the CEO and co-founder at charge, which basically means that whatever he wants to accomplish in the next six months, in the next one quarter, six months, one year, are we on track? And then I think that's really the key thing for me to do is to get the CXO to be able to work on the CXO. And then, I think that's really, really important to me. And I think that's really important to me to be able to work on that. And I think that's really important to me. And I think that's really important to me to work on that. present in the company with the C8 so at day zero or day one or it should be like after some point that you know heavy of race to CZB and now things are becoming too heavy or and need some streamlining of activities of operations that are happening and that's why I see you as C8 so might go and hire us chief or staff. Right, I think I know I was going to take this moment I really want to ask you about Chaji so just for the benefit of everyone that's listening in. Give us a global subscription management platform and in that we automate revenue operations for about 4500 subscription based businesses you know from startups to enterprises across the world and some of the key clientele you know that we have our fresh works of time, calendar and why I say that is I just want to you know use this opportunity to speak about the scale at which and the rate of growth at which you are growing which I think is very delighted related to what you're asking. I do find a lot of value that the company has established itself directionally you know has had some sort of MVP validation and is that a hyper growth or a growth stage because I do feel that at that point if a chief of staff come in can bring a lot more value you know then very initial days when the founders themselves are figuring out you know who are the target audience what are their pricing plans etc etc. Having visibility on where a company wants to go directionally and going there fast so a company in a hyper growth stage I think I don't want to tie it to the round of funding but just the level of growth because that's where someone like someone like Neena Rol can drive value when you just have multiple when you're growing very fast you are you're very dynamic your problem that I'm solving every day change so my no two days of the same when I do think that you know this comes in when we have a vision we have a goal we know where we want to be but 2023 but 2025 and continue the level of growth that you know we've had in the last four to five years so to sum a hyper growth company perhaps has validated the directionally where it wants to be where it customers these are and is growing fast is a good place I think to hire or chief of staff and I have seen that in Indian ecosystem as well couple of you know companies that are redeborded in Indian etc that are hiring I see that they are in a growth phase and you know they've been around two to four years or actually years is not the point the point is that they've been growing really fast so they need someone to kind of help support the CX so that you know drive the mission as a team. Makes sense makes sense and being in this role right comes with his own challenges and stuff but and I don't know that every role should have like some of some okay aspects some objective some API some metrics that they're tracking right every every CX would have their own not start for for example so for for a chief of staff what does the not start look like or what are some of the metrics that that you track or how do you measure the success in your own. Yeah good question I think I like question that I'm made to think I'll touch base about what you briefly mentioned in this which was every role has a pros and cons and if I was about a chief of staff role you know I can think of three pros and three cons I think the pros are what we've already been speaking a lot a lot about a lot of critical thinking on dynamic problems that also change the scope of the problem change is in scale and multiple parameters change there is a lot of visibility into how decisions are made and organization level you know I just really I really have that I can you know being meeting and just hear how different people are trying to approach the same problem I feel that's very holistic and I'm very grateful for that opportunity and I think you know what I said earlier was that I'm in the middle of all the action so you know just have multiple people to work with multiple stakeholders I really enjoy that and but this also has a flip side right and I think the cons would be that it can get a lonely because you don't have a team I used to lead a team in the previous form or at least with a part of a team and you know sometimes it can feel that while you have everyone as a team you can feel like you're on own part but I did know that you know this is an individual contributed role when I took on but sometimes it can feel differently and I think the second thing you know that becomes the con is like I said because of this role is still coming up so a lot of it you have to yourself define for yourself which means that sometimes you know you can feel lost because this is not a traditionally defined role how I overcome both of these challenges right feeling lonely and also ensuring that I'm directly interact I have identified both a set of fronts I'm very important to make friendships in an organization even for virtual but also mentors right so other chief of staffs who are chief of staffs the CEO to the CRO chief of staffs actually in other other companies like for example a higher-ach at once with a chief of staff it's really just to understand how do you we all say the same problem right so how do we overcome them and having that sense of belonging that somewhere really helps but I definitely think that you know for anyone considering this role if problem solving it sites you and you know you're you have good communication skills and you like to build relationships I do think that this is a great place to be because problem solving is very fulfilling for me as a person now you know to the question that you ask I'm taking the longer route to get there but what is success looks like in this role I find it hard to quantify it but I can think of two metrics I think one is that there is more focus time for the CXO so you come in you take off things office plate there are meetings where you know you represent him or her and you're able to make decisions on him or her if his or her behalf I think having that time on his calendar at this level I realize working so closely is absolutely an asset and a luxury but of course the CXO has to have confidence in you to be able to leverage that aspect of your role and the second thing I would feel is like the role says chief of staff it is also you know working very very closely with the CXO's one downs how do how do they win how do we ensure that you know the one down have all the resources at all points have whatever they require to make decisions at their levels you know to look good and to add to charge fees or their organization's goals so I would feel I would summarize this by you know I do believe that a manager is only as good as his or her team to ensure that how we collectively win is the way success of the Jolize from what you said I understand is like if that the success of a chief of staff like is aligned or it totally depends on the success of the so who the chief of staff is aligned to right like if their office is like succeeding and achieving metrics and achieving different targets completing objectives then obviously like a chief of staff is playing a big big role in the background where you're supporting each and everything right yeah I think I just like to add to that that it's absolutely very true I think it's a lot of groundwork and a lot of background behind the team's work but it's been when so when I say CEO's office I mean Raman and Raja Raman's direct team you know so all the other senior leaders that he works with I think this role is about making us win as a team and not just only the CXO and collectively aligning you know priorities with the or priority of the organization so I think it's a very the role supports the CXO and the leaders in that organization but it makes sense and how would somebody know that you know if tomorrow I have to let's say you know I don't know if I'm ready or you know if I'm eligible but if I have to be chief of staff for any CXO or any any SaaS company right how do I know that if I'm ready right like what trades do the CXO look for particularly I do think that you mentioned a few of the those in the in the conversation already had but if you have to pinpoint like some important trades that the CXO look for that I should have anybody who is who wants to get into this role right like how do I get hired for this role yeah I think I'll probably use this question on an opportunity to say that I would not actually act and be looking for a chief of staff roles okay just to change industry that being in B2C for too long wants something new wants to challenge myself and I was looking at program management because that's what I was doing in my last organization this role just came my way and I do like to thank the HR who you know said it my way and I found it very interesting if I were to look back you know and now I think that there's more structure to the role and there's more demand for the role I can think of three things that you know someone would focus on at the interview the person or if I were to interview again for someone else coming in I think first is you know your program management skills your ability to scope the fine timelines hold accountability and take small projects or big projects to closure I think that's very important which requires both a self of a sense of self discipline and some sort of previous experience of running multiple projects is always a plus second would be right how do we approach problems and what I've been seeing a lot in my conversation with you today is critical thinking so how can you know we ask the question that can give us a directional sense of any problem statement or any opportunity at hand and I think third would be even though it's more generic one but it's hard to get right is communication skills being in the center of everything I think it's so important to be able to bring different people together and I think you can only do that by building into this a person relationships and you know having strong communication is definitely a facilitator to that I'm not sure how to answer you know when is someone ready to be the chief of staff but I do think that having a sense of these three you know qualities in different ways but collectively you know that this big that person will become a strong character. for this role because this is something that I use on a day on day basis in so many different ways but it comes on to these three things. Got it and I think one one reason what you said right like one good bet this role has to like follow or you know abide by its like specialization is for insects. Like I don't I don't recall like who said this but what the meaning behind this is like specialization is for insects. Why everybody should know a lot of stuff and why it matters. I think there's a good good articles and there's a good book around this. I've read the article but I don't recall who actually said this quote or whatever but very interesting take. One thing I can share is right when I was switching jobs and I spoke multiple people my alumni from IZ and people in the industry. I think what I was worried about was you know I'm a journalist and ten years of my career should I become a specialist you know is this something that I'm not thinking will it be how to how to do my next 10 years look like. And this one lady I spoke to she said that in organizations to have people that have fungible roles that you know think of yourself as a sponge you absorb you learn and you apply to different places. I think that is going to be an asset in the next 5 10 years because we want people in especially you know look at currently when you're in a startup driven world where you want someone to play where multiple has and play multiple roles. And to be able to do that you know this is a good place to be so I do understand that you know there is this discussion of specialist versus generalist I really do think that it comes down to person aspirations. But what she said really stuck to me and I chose that I will not specialize I'll come to be a journalist and then maybe in 5 years I'll ask this question again and see where to go next. No totally totally I think it makes sense and you need to grow both both sides right you need to grow vertically as well in the role and you need to grow horizontally as well. And with you know with the all the changes that are happening around you around you around the world in the environment and ecosystems in companies and and everything if a person is not changing right beat anything right changing their jobs in their role changing how they think or the mindset and you know by change I mean just like you know always constantly doing themselves both vertically and horizontally. Like you know that's that's the only way to stay ahead of the curve. And I do think that this yeah and I do think that this sort of a change or you know when you just push yourself out of those comfortable waters gives you a lot of you know meaningful perspective that adds to your overall journey totally totally yeah I think that that's a lot for you know this episode to talk and for anybody to understand like you know what is the chief of staff how do you get higher water skills required and what others what is the success look like for you. And this look like for this role and and you know in the end like what are the pros and cons right of being in this role but that's that's the course for this episode but let's move on to the lightning round where I'm going to put you on the spot for three questions and since it's a lightning round you have to answer with whatever is on top of your mind. I do hope I will get a ham bit at the end of it but okay. So yeah first one like what's the one thing that has helped you short the your lot of. Challenging myself and facing my fears I was very scared about public speaking this putting myself out there and overcoming that has added confidence to a lot for this face of my life. That's amazing and you know hearing you speak at the growth side and like talking to you now on this episode I think you were never feared of speaking in public. You know just wait for you to come out. I was scared I remember the first time I went my hand was shaking and I was shaking and people were cheering but I think it's important to put yourself out there and overcome what stops you. Totally totally. So yeah second one what do you know about your work now that you wish you would have known when you first started. That I will work crazy I tell my child you did not tell me that I work so much this is not done but but I do appreciate it I really I really do think I'm not sure good looking and I do have nothing to complain about and I really yeah I really wish that she told me that you're going to be so crazy but I know completely. Awesome and the last one right who is someone that inspires you and why. Oh wow so many people and I think it's very difficult you know to nail down people one or two people that's right but I do think but I do think that I do think that my parents you know in their own ways I've been very closely watching my father set up a business for ground up and you know he has a team of his own about 100 people and he's the post 100 families I've always on that very inspiring. He's also kept his work flow work sorry work people from his team who've been within for 25 plus years and I think my mom very very adamant to study she studied LLB after having three kids and I do think that you know both these streets have because I watched them so closely I think they really influenced me to be a better person. That's that's really amazing I mean this is the 94th episode with you Kanika and so I've asked this question to pretty much everyone and you're only the second person to you know say that somebody from your family inspires you and surprisingly enough the first person who said that the family inspires me was just in the last episode so you know it's really interesting for me to know right right family is always is an inspiration right right from days ago and it really is amazing that you know you pick somebody. Who's not from the text has start up ecosystem. Yeah, who inspires you. Yeah, I didn't just say that because I feel that I think what's up for why did I choose my parents because to be inspired I think it's important to see the struggles it's important to see the days when things are not working and how you know those people behave in our act in them then while the world today is so glamorous is tech founders and we see is etc. I do feel that we only see the brighter side of them they have their own struggles but I think seeing that so closely because that's your day to day. Day to day is this when things are not working how do you motivate yourself and keep going so I think seeing that that struggle and seeing that challenge and yet see them come out on the other side absolutely shining with something that says close to my heart. Totally and I do think it makes sense so yeah so yeah thanks a lot canica for taking time this good beautiful morning and you know sharing all these great insights with us about getting hired as a chief of staff I do hope that if somebody's looking out for such kind of a role like I reach out to canica and I'm very sure that she we have for the happy to help you out with you know any questions any specific questions you have about the role like you know about any fall of questions from the episode. Yeah absolutely thanks so much for having me actually excited all morning that we were going to record this and for anyone you know looking any question I'm always happy to help I do think that my experience is not going to be of good use if I can share it with others so you can feel free to reach out to me on my link there are 50,000 canica but maybe canica which are these for me one or two. Yeah totally I'm going to include your link in the episode description so people can find you. Awesome thanks so many this is so amazing.