S4E3 Part 1 Charlie Colvin - Spotlight on Elite Undergraduate Research Award Winners - Puzzle by Puzzle, Becoming a Researcher

Welcome to From Concept to Creation, the podcast where we invite everyone to uncover the process of research with us. Hey everybody, thanks for joining us for another episode of From Concept to Creation. I'm Kate Morgan, Instructional Designer at Penn State World Campus. Hey folks, I'm Jen Jarsson, Headlibrary Unit Penn State Lehigh Valley and Interim Headlibrary Unit Penn State School. And this month we're doing a little series of some mini-sodes. And by the way, if you like this mini-sode series, be sure to check out the series of mini-sodes we did back in season three. But don't let the word "mini-ful-you." These are some pretty powerful episodes. We have four fabulous students in this series who have each one to lead awards. And this month we're bringing you two of those conversations. Right, so why are we focusing on these students and these awards? Well, to start, these awards are huge accomplishments. They're a testament to not only these students' research and the impact of their research, but also to their future trajectories in research. Right, right. And we're talking especially about the Goldwater Scholarship and the Astronaut Scholarship. Both of these awards are focused on undergraduates doing STEM research. They're prestigious and they're super competitive. For example, the Astronaut Scholarship was awarded to only 74 students across the United States this year. So how do students get here? I mean, absolutely, these are amazing accomplishments. But what we're interested in is the process. We're really jazzed about and focused on the journey, you know, the process, the decision-making that got these students to this point. So how did they get started? How do they find their way through their diverse experiences to this point? And my favorite question, when did they start thinking in themselves as researchers? Right. Yeah. So first up in this episode, we're talking to Charlie Colvin. He's graduating in the spring class of 2026. He's a plant sciences major with a concentration in plant genetics and biotechnology and he's minoring in agronomy at University Park and he received the Astronaut Scholarship. You know, I love hearing about Charlie's passion and his motivations for research. You know, Charlie's work has to do with corn, which may sound like a side dish, but Charlie was so articulate about why his research matters to the bigger picture. It has changed my perspective on corn. When I drive through a corn field, I always think of that episode. Yeah, Charlie illustrated what it means to be able to communicate with different audiences about the work you're doing and its impact and what an important skill that is. It's just one of the important elements that helped him reach this level and has helped him, you know, challenge stereotypes about research generally and his research specifically. Yes. In this episode, Charlie shares more about the kinds of work he's done specifically, but also the attitudes that have helped him persist and succeed. So let's let him tell the story. Sounds great. Charlie, welcome to the program. We are so excited to talk to you today about your research. Hello. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to it. Thanks so much, Charlie. It's great to have you here. So to get started, you have done a ton of cool research stuff in a lot of different settings. So let's just start by chatting a bit about the kinds of topics, questions, problems that you've been researching during your time at Penn State. Give us a quick overview. Sure. So I guess overall my research looks at plant genetics and how they can be used to improve crops that we grow. So I focus mainly on corn and a little bit on sorghum, which is another crop. And I've worked on some different aspects of this ranging from disease resistance to insect resistance to improving the yield or harvest quality of these plants. It's a lot of different things where we're working towards this overarching goal of improving the crops that people grow throughout the country in a way that makes them more sustainable and also better for the farmers. And so that sounds like the kind of research that happens both in the field and in the lab. Do you divide your time kind of equally or do you spend time in one place more than the other? Yeah, I travel between, I'd say three settings. I do some work in, I would say dry labs, a computational work. I do some work that is wet labs. So like in the lab using pipettes and chemicals and things like that. And so do a little bit of field work where I'm actually out in a corn field conducting experiments in that setting as well. Okay. I would say the ratio is between them kind of very depending on the season. Obviously in the summer there's more, we're field work to do because the plants are growing and then the winter we switch more to the indoor stuff. So the computational or the wet lab work? That's really cool. Yeah. Did you get started with doing this kind of research in your first year at Penn State or was this something that started later? I did join in my first year. So I was a freshman here at Penn State. It has probably only been a couple of weeks into the semester. And I was, I was taking all my freshman level classes and they were, they were interesting but I found them a little too easy. Which makes sense for some of your, your freshman level courses, they're, they're kind of the introductory things. And so I was looking for something I could find a little more, I don't know, intellectually stimulating, I would say. And I saw an email come out from the academic advisor in the plant sciences program. And she had forwarded an email from professor who was just looking for an undergraduate to join their lab. It was a maze genetics lab. Aces corn. That's what we refer to it as. And he was looking for someone to join the lab and I was like, yeah, sure, like, you know, I don't have any research experience or lab experience, but now I'll do that. So I reached out to him and I was like, hey, like I'm interested. He's like, okay, like, you know, that's great. Send me your CV. And at that point I went, oh, I don't have a CV. I'm sure. Right. And it's like I, you know, I've worked a couple of jobs through high school and working on farm and working restaurants and making, making burgers, but that's not really something you would put on like an academic CV. So that night I quickly scrambled to put together as much of a CV resume as I could come up with and set it off to him. He's like, yeah, sure, looks good. Like, you know, come out and meet us at the field. Okay. Oh. And so I went out, met him there and since then I've been just working in that lab. Okay. So you didn't necessarily then enter college with the idea of doing research. It's just that you were looking for some more challenging experiences, saw this opportunity and, and basically seized, seized the moment. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't come in like, oh, I need to find a lab and do research and we just kind of like, oh, this looks somewhat interesting. Let me, let me try it and I found out that I actually really enjoy it. So it sounds like you came in knowing what your major was going to be at least like you already in your major at that time. I was already in my major. So I got into plants initially actually through my family's backyard vegetable garden, which every time I told the story, people, people always assumed that like, oh, we had this garden, it was a great experience growing up. And actually it was, it was kind of the opposite because for the longest time we had this vegetable garden. It was run by my father who is a, is a great person, but it's definitely not a, not a green thumb. And so he would go out and he would buy these plants and spring on Mother's Day and he would put them in the ground and then he would kind of forget about them. And then he would come back in a couple months and use a machete to hack through all the weeds and find those plants to the original plant. Right. What's left of them? Yeah. All three of his cherry tomatoes that he managed to get. The rabbits were happy though. Yes. The rabbits were happy. The groundhogs were happy, but we did not really yield very much for that garden. And so I was, you know, probably about 12 at the time. And I've always been a very competitive person as, you know, a protein. You're always very competitive. You're trying to one off your parents. And so I told my dad, I was like, okay, I'm going to take over the garden this year. So like, let me do it. I'm going to see if I can do it better than you. And so I spent a long time on, you know, on Google and YouTube and learning all these different things about different plants and how to grow them and different pests and diseases and weeds and fertilizers and all these different things. And so I took over the garden that year and it worked a little bit. And I did better than my father had. So I proved my point there. But I wasn't one to just let it rest. And so I was like, okay, then actually I'm going to get a job on a farm. So I can really learn like how to do this. That's a level up. Yeah. And let me learn from professional here. So I worked on a vegetable farm for about two summers. And it was definitely hard work, you know, working in the summer, 10 hour days is a 13, 14 year old. No joke. But that was definitely something that helped me learn a lot more about actually how to do things the right way and a little bit of work ethic too, I would say. Mm-hmm. And doing that, I kind of even got more involved and I got better at growing things. And I was like, okay, this is, I'm starting to really enjoy this. But I noticed that throughout the whole time, you know, as I would grow these plants, I would fix one problem with, say, an insect pest. But then when I did that, there was something else that would come and take its place. And so there would be, you know, I'd fix one problem and two more would pop up. And so I found it was kind of this constant like whack-a-mole of like, you know, you saw one problem and another one takes its place. And I found that actually quite interesting kind of kind of an interesting challenge to kind of work on chasing. So sort of like a puzzle where you put one piece in place and you're like, okay, I fixed that, but where is the next piece going? And so that was something that I kind of really enjoyed. And so when it got time to pick my college major, I was like, okay, well, I enjoy, you know, working with plants and kind of the hands-on aspect of that. I've always liked science and doma in my science classes through school. I was like, this looks like a good opportunity where I can continue to work with something that I enjoy and also keep working on that sort of problem solving and real hands-on work. Mm-hmm. Wow. Okay. So back to your first year experience. So what did your first steps, your first jobs in that research assistant position look like? Like what kinds of stuff were you doing? So I washed dishes for a couple months. Oh, good. So your restaurant experience did pay off? Yes, exactly. I guess that was probably important to include on my resume there. Yeah. So yeah, I spent, you know, first couple, first couple months in the lab, kind of washing dishes and cataloging chemicals and just helping doing little things like that around the lab. And then from there, I kind of gradually moved up over time to like, okay, now I'm going to help, you know, with some experiments that maybe one of the post-oxes is working on. And like he'll give me some small task and I'll do that and then it would be like, oh, okay, now he's gonna text me like Hey, can you do this task in general? And I'll go and like do the experiment and like give him the samples and From there kind of move on like okay, you're seem like you're capable enough of doing this and you're still here So here let's start you on kind of your own your own project and see where you can go with that Mm-hmm And so I think probably by the The spring of my of my freshman year. I started to kind of work on my own projects. Oh wow So that's a pretty quick pace to move through their stages. Yeah I think my lab is is particularly good about if they see someone who's showing that they're competent and they're interested and they're willing to work on things They're not afraid to give them a project regardless of the fact that they might be an undergraduate or like they might not have a ton of experience Right I've known some other people in some other labs. It may be like oh, well you are an undergraduate So you're gonna spend two years working on like just helping other people and like that's just kind of gonna be your job Which is fine. That's that's how they do things and certain people I think benefit from that where it's like you always have kind of something Put it laid out in front of you. You can just work on the next project that you're given But for me, I always kind of had that bit of independence to me wanting to try new things and take on kind of new challenges Right, and so it ended up being a really good fit where they were like, okay Hey, you're willing to do this and you seem like you might have a chance at actually accomplishing it So like here here you go like have at it. Mm-hmm And so I think I kind of locked into that. Did you find your interests? Changed a little bit or your focus changed or your Find it a little bit maybe yeah, I think so I think it's it's kind of evolved over time Like I said, I've always been kind of interested in just kind of the general problem solving and like how that can be applied to different settings Mm-hmm And so for example right now one of the projects I'm working on is Looking at developing varieties of corn that are resistant to different insect pests We work with a couple different caterpillar species. So one is called fallarmewarm the other one is corn earworm Both of our different caterpillars that eat different parts of the plant and can cause major yield losses And so I've been working on that project for a couple years now And I wouldn't say coming in that I was you know super excited about caterpillars or working with Insects or anything like that. I wasn't afraid of them But I was not really like wow, okay caterpillars are really cool But I think as as I've worked with the project it's it's become something's kind of grown on me It's like okay like I enjoy kind of working on this and how I can you know manipulate the plants are used different plant varieties to kind of achieve a goal of making them more resistant Mm-hmm It sounds like in the projects that you're working on I mean You know, I think we all have a mental image of corn. We all have mental images of caterpillars So in some ways like your research sounds very relatable But I imagine the techniques that you're using to address these problems are very Advanced and you know not something with which a layperson would have a lot of familiarity like how did you find yourself Developing the knowledge and the skills to be able to work on these kinds of problems It's not like you had the whole toolkit ready from those foundational experiences, right? How are you learning as you go? I guess is what I'm asking Yeah, I mean, I think you you learn some by you learn some by just reading and so you read the literature and you see what other people do and like you know What what techniques exist? You learn some from your mentors So if I was working with a postdoc or a graduate student or my PI suggested something a bit like oh What is what is that like what does that mean? Mm-hmm? And so like you know even even now and I'm continuing to learn in my my PI even his He's in his 60s and he's still continuing to learn new techniques as I come out Science is one of those things that you can never know everything and you're you never always up to date on the the newest techniques and approaches There's always something new coming out somebody is developed a better way to do things or a new way to do things Mm-hmm So in that in that sense you're never really further behind than anyone else because there's always new things coming out Right, I think there's some level of background knowledge where if you know just basic underlying biological principles Things like DNA and RNA and how those those molecules interact and how they work in a larger organism Those helped you to put together some experiments But a lot of it is just coming down to okay like let me read and see what other people have done to answer similar questions And how can I apply it to my system? Mm-hmm And so for example There was you know sometimes I take bits and pieces from my classes I learned something in a class and I like oh I wonder if that could be applied to this setting and like you know I try that Yeah, I think that's that's generally how that goes you just you pick up pick up bits and pieces over time And you try them and sometimes they work sometimes they don't and do you just go from there? Mm-hmm But have you ever had a moment or when did you have the moment where you're like? I did research. I did amazing research right now or I discovered something about myself in this process Um Yeah, I think I don't know exactly when I don't know if it was one like kind of aha moment or a thirt's there's something missing I mean one that I can think of is like So we've had these core varieties for a while that we can feed to the caterpillars and Some of the core varieties were killed the caterpillars and some of the core varieties don't kill the caterpillars And so we're kind of narrowing down on like okay. We know what compound is in these different core varieties that causes them to either kill the caterpillars or not kill the caterpillars Um those compounds are actually a classic compounds called flavonoids Um, there's something that we see in a lot of different plant species as pigments And so if you think of something like blueberries that have that really strong blue color or some flowers that are kind of a purple or like a deep red color Um those pigments are actually flavonoids and there's something that uh have been studied widely for their health benefits So they're really poten any oxen there one of the reasons that things like blueberries are called a superfood Right, but we've shown actually that they can be toxic caterpillars So one of the things that we were doing though is we were we were doing this and we were showing that okay We can kill the caterpillars with this corn that has high in flavonoids Um, but we didn't really know the mechanism and so we were kind of struggling to understand like okay How does this actually work like we we obviously know if we feed the caterpillar the caterpillar dies But what happens in between that feeding and the caterpillar dying that actually causes it And that was one of the projects that I was given um to start on And you're kind of worked on it for a while with not too much results And then we did an experiment where we got rid of the uh gut microbes that are inside the caterpillars So we fed them on antibiotics and we we used a bleach solution to surface sterilize the eggs So they were kind of germ-free caterpillars if you will okay And when we fed these germ-free caterpillars the the high flavonoid corn We saw that they no longer died they all survived perfectly fine And so that was kind of an interesting link to us goes like huh Like we got rid of the effect of the caterpillar or we got rid of the effect of the flavonoids Just by getting rid of the gut microbes in the caterpillars Wow, and so now we see that okay the flavonoids do something to the caterpillars But only when they're they're in conjunction with the microbes in the caterpillar's guts And so I think that was kind of an interesting like aha moment But I guess I could say is like yeah, this was like you know Like this is me doing research and finding something that actually answers one of the the ongoing questions we had Yeah, we were wondering how do these like you feel like a you feel like a valuable part of the team like like contributing and doing the research So just For my mental model of corn and so when you say a corn with high flavonoids We're talking probably about like not traditional corn that we would buy at a farm standard in the grocery store We're talking probably like Like um like red corn or something that's really intensely colored right? Yeah, so um You've probably actually seen high flavonoid corn before is like a decorative thing So like they sometimes they call it when I was thinking and the corn or something like that or like glass gem corn Some of those pigments so our corn is similar to that But we breed it to be better for actually commercial production. Okay, so high flavonoid corn varieties or something that existed for a while Even the Native Americans would would grow these high flavonoid corn varieties But they were always something that didn't yield very much and so you might get an ear of corn But it was maybe only you know four or five inches long And in you know in in 2025 and you go to the Midwest and you look in an ear of corn It doesn't look like that you know four or five inches Sure That you see on a decorative corn stock It's this huge like you know giant yellow ear And so what we've been trying to do is take those compounds and those genes in the in the purple corn or the Indian corn And enteragress that into like kind of modern corn varieties that produce the much bigger plants and the bigger ears and bigger kernels Okay, and so that's one of the things we've our lab works on overall is just kind of introducing these high flavonoid traits into corn that's actually able to be grown by farmers Because it doesn't matter how great the high flavonoid corn is in general if it doesn't yield enough to make the farmers profit right So the other aspect of that is as a genetics lab we know more than just this corn is purple or this corn is yellow We actually know the underlying genes that control the coloration of the corn in different parts of the corn And so we can kind of pick and choose okay Maybe we want a corn to have yellow kernels, but a purple plant We want you know purple silks, but yellow corn or we want a purple husk, but yellow corn or we want a fully purple corn and Sox and plant we get to kind of pick and choose and manipulate exactly how we want the pigments to be produced and what type of pigments if we want more of a Purple's color or a reddish color So we can all in order to increase productivity and yield or quality and nutrition or whatever your goals might be or yeah Disease resistance and insect resistance that's like that. Okay. I mentioned I work with two different insect species The one being fall armor where they're an insect that feeds on the leaves of the corn and so to control down We want corn with purple leaves gotcha the other insect that we work with though is called corn earworm and just like its name It actually feeds in the ear of corn So if we've ever maybe gone to a farmer's market got like an organic ear of corn and it had a little worm in the tip of the ear Yeah, that's a corn earworm right right and so it doesn't really matter if there's flavonoids and leaves If that's not where the corn earworm is feeding and so for those insects we actually have different varieties that produce pigments Specifically in the ear and in the silks where those insects would be more exposed to them interesting Okay, so a few minutes ago you mentioned that you know you had this really successful experience when you identified this A new understanding about sort of the the microbiome in the caterpillar But then I think you alluded to the fact that you had like tried things before that that didn't really go according to plan or maybe didn't reveal to you what you had hoped it would What's that like in that moment? moment when you go down a path, you're sort of pursuing a line of inquiry and it's not working out as expected. What's that like for you? It can be frustrating, especially if it's something that you're really invested in and you're like, oh, I really hope this works. With that being said, I think it's one of those, it's part of research. It's not just like, oh, all the answers are immediately going to be there for you. You have to search for them. I would say it's something that can be frustrating, but it's also something you don't need to take personally. Experiments fail probably more often than they actually work. It doesn't mean you're a bad scientist, so you don't know what you're doing. It just means that that's just sometimes how it goes. I think particularly when you work with biological systems, so if you're for me, I'm working with corn that's a living system, and I'm working with insects that are living system. There's microbes that's the third living system, and so there's always some variability just in living systems in general, and the more layers of living systems you stack on top of each other, the more variable the experiments are going to be. Sometimes it's just not going to work and there's nothing you can do about it. It's just kind of that happens because sometimes the weather doesn't cooperate. It's just a fire, something random happens, and there's just something going to work with it. We've had things where we had all the worms, we got them as eggs, and we hatched them. We had them in this big jar, and the jar apparently did not have a very tight seal around the lid. A lot of our worms started to get out, so we were like, "Oh no, quick, let's save this. Let's wrap it in tape so they can't get out." Well then we realized they were attracted to the tape, and they all died. That was unexpected. We ended up killing all the worms with the tape rather than with the corn. Bummer, yeah. Well there's another element. Put tape on corn, right? There's another option. Yeah, you'd be like one of those sticky traps that you can get for the fly tape or something like that. Wow, that got to be one of those, "Oh my gosh, I was not expecting that kind of thing." It's got to be like, "I want to bang my head against the wall." Yeah, it can be frustrating, but you've just got to kind of roll with it and expect it. It's not always going to work. I think that's probably the bigger part. It's just the mindset of like, "Okay, we're going to try this if it works. That's great. If not, we're back in the same place we already were." We didn't really lose anything except a couple days. Time to order new worms. Yeah. So it sounds like, "Okay, you started as a first-year student. You quickly got up to speed and you started doing independent work in the second semester of your first year." And now you're in your fourth year, right? Yep. I'm assuming throughout this entire time you've continued to be involved in research. I think maybe you've even gotten more deeply involved. What has been motivating you to persist through all of these research experiences? Is there like an end goal in mind for you? Is there something about the research itself? Like what's keeping you going through this? I think it's probably more about the research itself and kind of like I mentioned, I think previously the idea of like I'm always interested in solving problems and chasing these problems and working on things like a puzzle. And so there is kind of an end goal, I guess, that I'll end up having some sort of research type career and like working on that. Or at least right now in the immediate future, right now I'm filling out grad school applications. So I guess that would be a goal, but I'm not sure that's really the reason that I'm doing the research. It's more that I'm doing the research because I enjoy it and I find it fulfilling. And because I'm enjoying the research and because I find it fulfilling, that's why I'm going to grad school, not the other way around. So one thing that we haven't touched on yet that I know is part of your research journey, part of your research experience is the fact that you won the astronaut scholarship. Congratulations. That's amazing. Thank you. Yes, congratulations. The award itself is of course amazing, very prestigious thing to have won. What was your motivation in applying for that award or what is the process of applying for that award? What has that meant to you? How has that helped you in your journey if at all? So yeah, I guess I wish I had a more significant answer than this, but I was basically just kind of browsing the undergraduate research website and I was like, okay, scholarship. Sure, like that sounds fun. And like, you know, I need to pay tuition. So I kind of, I would say I kind of stumbled into it into the application process. And then you know, I read a little more into it. It's like, okay, this is like a, you know, this is like a legit scholarship. And so, you know, I filled up my application and I ended up getting the nomination from Penn State. So the way the astronaut scholarship works is there's an internal nomination process and then there's like a national round. And so Penn State is allowed to nominate two students from all of their undergraduate population. Wow. But yeah, I kind of stumbled into that and I applied for it and I applied for a couple others as well. There was one called Goldwater, which is another scholarship. Actually applied to that one first and I didn't get the nomination. And so there was one of those like, oh, like, you know, dang, I kind of was hoping to get that one. And you know, in a way, you know, I knew it was very competitive in a way. It was a little surprised because I thought my application was very strong. And I thought I had a lot of research experience, which is what they were looking for for that one. But it was one of those like, okay, like, you know, let's not get too upset over not getting an nomination. Let's let's work on taking any feedback and get from them and improve the next application. Right. And so Goldwater nominates four people, which is almost less selective in a way. Yeah, and actually only nominates two. So it's like, okay, well, I better like, you know, make some some improvements here to the application. And so I did that and actually ended up getting the assent nomination. And then you're looking at that. I was like, okay, like, you know, when I were going to the national round of selection. And I think they pick, I think it's about 70 people nationally from all the different schools. And that was one of those where I was, you know, again, I'm confident in my application because I like what I do. And I think I've done quite a bit of research and stuff. But at the same time, I was looking at this and, you know, it's called the astronaut scholarship, right? It's not called the plant science scholarship. Right. Right. You're looking at the past winners. You're like, wow, these people like they want a whole bunch of stuff. And they've done all these things. And more strictly to me, like a lot of them were in engineering. A lot more so mechanical engineering aerospace engineering, some like that. There's some biologists, but like if you look at them, they're all doing like cancer research and stuff. So I'm like looking through as like, oh, there hasn't been like a single person to ever win it within like a plant science is major or anything. Anything anything like that. So I guess in a way I was a little nervous. I was like, okay, like are they going to even accept my application being like, oh, you're not like you're not a real STEM major, which, you know, like. I think sometimes there's the impression outside of the field that agriculture is not really science or it's not like hard science. I would because of the applied nature of it. You mean like it's like people figure like, oh, you know, it's corn like farmers grow that and I just walk out and feel my overalls and like people we have out. Right. Right. Stereotypes. Yes. Of course. Right. Yeah. Interesting. But you know, that being said, I'm in a molecular biology lab. I do molecular genetics and computational genetics and it is very much hard science. It's just applied to a system that maybe everyone's so familiar with that they don't necessarily even think about it. Right. You don't look at a field of corn and think of how many millions of dollars went into the engineering of that particular corn plant that's sitting in that field. You don't really think that like, oh, while there's a whole like level of interactions here and like there's PhD scientists who have worked on this for like 20 years to like make this corn that's highly resistant to these caterpillars. And manage things in a very particular way. And I think that's something that is perhaps a fault of the researchers who are involved in the field that don't necessarily do a great job of sharing with the public like actually the science that goes into the things that they do somewhat also of a consequence. I think of just how common agriculture and corn, for example, is everybody sees corn in the corn field. Right. So it's something you've almost become numb to because you encounter so many times. If you look at something like I don't know a nuclear reactor or right from like so it's not something you encounter every day on your drive to work. And so it seems a little more novel. But it doesn't necessarily mean that the technology behind it is significantly different. So I think it was one of those things. Yeah, I was it was an interesting process and the application was interesting and I was very happy to be found out that I was I was selected for it. And I think it was really interesting. There's there I was talking to all these other students from these other schools and. Everybody there is very highly accomplished and winning all these national words and doing research and all sorts of different fields working for the government and. You know, working for private companies and things like that. And I think it again, it was very interesting that like all of these people are super intelligent and they have a lot of background and research and. When I would explain my research, you're like, wow, that's really cool. I didn't realize there was that much science behind corn, for example. And so I think it's one of those that like, you know, it's research that obviously is very important, right. We everybody needs eat. But it's not something that really people necessarily think about unless you're part of a agricultural family, bring up or. I mean, even by myself, I had this garden back in my house, but I didn't really think of like, okay, how much. Research and development goes into developing a tomato variety that gets released to the market. We're like, you know, you don't think about the tomato sitting on the shelf of the supermarket. Somebody's done so many experiments to figure out how long it can sit on that shelf and how we can. You know, getting into the supermarket without bruising or whatever like there's, there's whole fields of research that even I wasn't myself familiar with. And I think there's a lot of that in just everyday life. There's the invisible research behind so many aspects of everyday life. Yeah, the things we take for granted is we drive our cars or whatever the case may be. We get on the bus. Yeah, absolutely. And so I think sometimes it's interesting that some of the most common things that you look at actually have a ton of really complicated and interesting research behind them. But it's just something that it's so common you don't really think about it, right? And such a huge impact. Yeah, because they reach so many so many parts of daily life. Yeah. So having gone through the process, this is really interesting having gone through the process of applying for this award and then talking to other award winners and sort of raising the visibility of agricultural related research. that impacting how you think about your next steps, your career path, your grad school plans? Does that factor into how you think about what you want to do? I don't know if it necessarily factors into changing the overall plans. I think it gives me some interesting insight for writing applications and things like fellowship applications where I'm applying for funding from general sources that maybe aren't specific to my field. And kind of the concept of like, oh, I need to kind of explain some of these things that I take for granted because I'm in the field that would maybe make sense to actually highlight to someone who's not necessarily in the field. And so like, for example, I was, I had a conversation with somebody who I was talking like, oh, I work on plant genetic research. And they made some comment that was like, oh, like, you know, that's cool, but it's like, it's not as complicated or it's not, it's like, it's simpler because they're, they're plans. Right. Right. In a way, you were like, oh, yeah, well, that intuitively makes sense, right? Humans are much more complicated beings than a plant, at least it appears from the outside. And so it seems like the genetics must be equally complicated or non-convocated, but actually like, you know, for something like corn, the genome is the exact same size. And there's actually more genes in corn that there are in people. Really? Wow. Yes. And so that's, you know, little things like that or like something like wheat has like a genome three times the size of the human genome. And so there's, there's way more complicated stuff that like you don't even necessarily realize it's there. And again, you know, I'm talking to a biologist when I'm when I'm doing this and there's someone who just won a national award for a research topic. But again, there was that kind of like level of like, oh, well, like I just assumed that plants were simpler and that plant research was simpler. It's like, no, not necessarily. But you know, unless you work in the field, you wouldn't necessarily be familiar with it. So. And I do, I do want to say you are really good at explaining this. Like, I feel like I really understand. I recognize what you're talking about in the research here and you made it very, very, you made me much more aware of when I will tell you the next time I drive by a corn field, because I live in a lot of corn fields, I will love it then very differently. Yeah. And you make such a good point about how important it is to be able to, I'm not only do the research, but to talk to other people about it to spread the word of the research and raise awareness about it. Yeah. Sure. I think that's something that especially today in the in the current climate that's that's very important is the not only doing the research, but the communication for. Absolutely. You know, for example, I work with I work with agriculture, right? How many farmers do you know that read academic journals? Exactly. Like, you know, what what farmer is reading nature plants and like, you know, oh, wow, I found this like in this gene and this corn, I'm going to try and like use this my own farm. That's not something that really happens, but they are the people who are most impacted by this by this research. Right. Yeah. And so there needs to be some level of communication between the academics to do the research and the people who actually get to use it. And so that's something I've kind of prioritized as well. I've given a lot of presentations from all the way from small garden clubs back in my hometown. Sure. To like, you know, national conferences or like, you know, big extension events at Penn State with like 40,000 farmers and people in attendance. And I think that's something that is really important to me and I think probably to research in general is that we not only do the research and we do it well, but we share it and we share it in a way that is hopefully understandable to whoever the audience is. Right. Well, and presumably hearing from those people who are working in farming informs the directions your research could go to, right? Helps you see the problems that need to be addressed. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's one of those that like, it's kind of a back and forth sort of thing that maybe agriculture is a little unique in that we have such a great dynamic in that where it's like, okay, we we're researching this thing and we show this off an event and a farmer comes up and they say, okay, that's great. But does it solve this problem? Right. And you're like, no, I've never heard of that problem. Like, can you tell me more about it? And they explain like, oh, like, there's this disease. I've seen in my field, but like, you know, keeps popping up and like, not only like, fungicides that I have available, like, you know, commercially are working against this disease, like, is there a way we could control it with the plants? And then you're like, huh, like, that's a really interesting topic. Like, I wonder if we could design an experiment to test that. Right. Like, more into that. And you get the kind of this back and forth where the farmers themselves or the people themselves are actually driving some of the research just by observing things and telling them back to the researchers. Same thing with, you know, people who are like, oh, I want, I want my corn to be healthier. I want, I want less pesticides in my produce. I'm not comfortable with the amount of pesticides that are used today. Like, okay, well, that's that's kind of, to us, that's like a push to like, keep working on this insect resistance thing. Right. Now, we don't need to use pesticides and it is kind of a nice back and forth. And that's why I spend quite a bit of time, especially in like the spring and summer at different conferences and events and things not only with academics, but also with civilians of people outside of the field. Because I think that sort of collaborative work is really, really important and can provide some really interesting ideas that maybe you wouldn't necessarily get if you stayed just within the active department that you're in. Right. Open lines of communication. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Charlie, thank you so much. What a journey. Yeah. What a journey. Taking a son. So interesting. Thank you so much. Of course. Yeah. It was it was a lot of fun. Good. And hopefully people now can can look at their corn fields. We're impressed by the corn that's growing out there and have a little glimpse into what goes on behind behind the seed there. A little more impressed about the corn. I'm impressed with you. I'm impressed with like I keep remembering your student and you're really building bridges there and and addressing real problems. So kudos to you and thank you so much for sharing it. Of course. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to From Concept to Creation. This podcast would not be possible without the support of Penn State University and its amazing population of curious minds. Uncovering the process and inner workings of research can sometimes be messy, but it's also rewarding and so interesting. As always, we want you, our listeners, to be part of this community. So please send us your comments and your ideas. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast and your favorite listening platform. And tune in for the next episode.