S4 E254 -- Strength To Be Human --Interview with Bruno Rescigna

Hello and welcome to the Strength to the Human Podcast with your host, author and playwright, Mark Antony Rossi. In our fourth year we continue to explore the meaning of being an artist in an ever-changing digital world. Now without further ado, here is your host. Welcome back to Strength to the Human. I'm your host, Mark Antony Rossi, poet and playwright. Yes, we have another interview over here. As you know, it's always an exciting and blessed moment because it's not the easiest thing. I know we're so-called "post-covid," but you know, people still have lives. We're still dealing with holidays and all kinds of things that people have in the tackle. I just talked to somebody recently. They spent half a day having returned gifts. So you got people doing things. You know, you only can fit in so much stuff, so I understand. So we got a wonderful guest here, Bruno Ressignia, who I'd hope I'm saying his name, right? This gentleman is not only a poet and a fiction writer, but also a playwright, which is always wonderful to get the choice to talk to someone because, you know, I'm a playwright and I'm getting as many on as I'd like to. I don't know why, but I've invited plenty and some of them are this shy. I don't know. Maybe it's easy for them to put the voice into other people rather than their own voice. And that's fine, but, you know, I'm glad to have one as well. He's been published in "Elizon Fields," a quarterly Brooks County writer, a tidewater at literally a yard. So I really appreciate Bruno coming on the show over here and invited him. Not too long ago and we were able to make this happen quicker than normal. So that makes it an extra blessing. Bruno, thank you very much for being on. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's always wonderful to be able to speak with writers that bring something, if not new to the table, at least something that we haven't heard about before. And that's really what I like to be able to hear as much as possible as people's experiences, you know, where they're coming from. Everybody has a different one. That's why it's great to be able to hear that. It's almost like the show over the years is like a collection of all these different voices in the literary world. So this way, none of us can ever be mistaken. No, none of us can ever, maybe through insecurity or whatever, distinct that, you know, there's only one out there and therefore I can't write because this person really covered it. Now there's plenty out there. Absolutely. So you were mentioning, when we were talking before the show started, that you had a different take on this. And I was hoping you would want to elaborate more about that. Not everybody starts off writing 20, 30, 40 years ago. Sometimes people find it years later in the middle of a career or during a crisis or the divorce or something like that, how people find it all over the place. And from there, they were able to bring it over to areas that make sense to them and therefore they were able to stay committed and, you know, and become passionate. So what's your story about writing? Yeah. Yeah, that's, and that's really what I wanted to discuss with folks. But we're going to talk about writing, but this could apply to any goal that somebody has any dream that somebody has. I started out, I was working for Merrill Lynch and I had transferred from one place to another. And I read a book writing down the bones by Natalie Goldberg. It's been around a long, long time. And it's a classic. And this opened me up. I grew up in Brooklyn, a working class kid. I didn't know anything about writing. I didn't know anything about literature or poetry. The poetry we had in school, you know, is English writers from the 1800s or something. They spoke a form of English that, I mean, if you're from Brooklyn, people tell you, you don't speak English anyway. And I'm reading stuff that I know is, you know, they said it's English, but sure as hell doesn't what I'm right. And I'm speaking. So I never had any interest in it. Somewhere like in the really early stages of grammar school, I wrote a poem and I enjoyed it. And I kind of put it away in my head, but the experience of it never really went away. And I describe it as kind of a pebble in the shoe. It was always there. I always thought about writing. It would come up like, maybe I should write something. And then it would disappear. Where I came from, we didn't know any writers. And it got forbid if I had ever said to somebody, I'd like to be a writer. The abuse I would have gotten for that would have gone on forever. So periodically it would come back and go away. And as I say, I'm traveling. I'm working from a religion. I'm traveling. And I have this book, a book that I don't remember buying. It's on my bookshelf. I'm reading it. And there's a Zen saying that when the student is ready, the teacher arrives. And maybe I was ready. Because this book just opened me up. And I started writing. And if you would ask me years ago, how does a Hemingway write? I would have assumed, well, he just sits down on writes. There's no real effort for him. It comes to him. I didn't understand how you labor over everything. So I start writing. And I'm starting with very small short stories that may or may not make sense. But I'm just doing what the exercise is telling me to do. And I tell you, that's what I've done the whole time. I've been doing it now for my gosh. I guess it's 40 years. Pretty much regularly. But some periods of, I guess, of moving away from it because life got in the way in some way. And my wife is a retired English teacher. So it's a wonderful person to have at home. And she's my first responder. I give her everything first. And I start giving her these short stories. And she would comment on them, good, bad, or indifferent. And I just kept doing it. I had a notebook. I wrote in the notebook. I didn't discuss it with anyone. And over time, the story's got longer, a little more involved, a little more complex. I started submitting them places. And I had a couple of pieces published back in, I guess it was the '90s. And I really like theater. I really like drama. And I started looking at that as maybe something that I'd like to do. I met Merrill Lynch. And I'm pretty unhappy. I'm a manager. And I'm making good money. But I'm really unhappy. And I decided I had enough money saved. I said, I'm going to step away from this. And I'm going to spend time writing. But before I did this, I contacted Natalie Goldberg, the author of this book that I was told you about. And I sent her some of my work. And she was very nice. She responded and said, some things about it and said, you know, I'm running a seminar in in Towson, Mexico. It was about six months later. You ought to come to that thing. And I did. And it was like about 18 women and me and some other guy. And I fell in love with Natalie. I fell in love with writing. I fell in love with Towson in Mexico. It was just one of those experiences that just, just a very life changing. Somebody said, follow your bliss. Was Joseph Campbell said, follow your bliss and the world somehow cooperates with you. And I think this was one of those moments. Well, I go to the seminar, the workshop, it's about a four day thing. And I just have a great time. And I realize through Natalie and other people that I met, New Mexico has a very strong writing community. We're living at the time in South Florida. And I start talking to my wife about maybe moving to New Mexico for a few years. She's just a shot. And that's what we ultimately did. I stayed with Merrill Lynch as a stock broker. But I started really looking for ways. of connecting with writers. Somebody I knew, knew the head of the playwriting department at University of New Mexico. So I go there, my first course, I take with Issaq Shakron, who was then considered the national playwright of Venezuela. And I learned some things from him. And I got to meet other people, of course, all the writers. The next guy comes in, is Digby Wolf, who was, you all know Digby Wolf, but you don't know him personally. He was one of the creators of Lafayn back in the '60s. And a creative genius. He had done everything from British musical hall comedies to television and plays and movies. And he was a wonderful, wonderful teacher. And a lovely human being. He's passed away, unfortunately, a few years ago. And while we weren't best of friends or anything, he was very helpful to me and my work. Through his encouragement and the class that I was in, I had a couple of plays put on at the University, a couple of one-act plays put on. And they went over well. The first one especially well. And that was an experience, I mean, I can't explain, to be in the ought, to be in the back of the room. And this is a theater. This holds maybe 100 people. It was the experimental theater at UNM, as a matter of fact. And to hear your words being said aloud by these student actors and several of the faculty volunteered also. So I had some well-trained people. And to see this world that you've created come to life. And hear your words come to life. It's amazing to me that these words I had, I could have said from memory at the time. And yet, it was like hearing them for the first time. And it was wonderful. It was just the most wonderful experience to hear people laughing. And then all of a sudden you know a line's coming that's going to stop them cold. And boom, they stop. And then you know, and you're just like you're moving people emotionally. And it was just, it was the wonderful experience. And I guess I did eventually left Merrill Lynch and just wrote for about, oh, about three, four years, wrote another play and just kept working at this. And you know, you write, I was writing comedy sketches. We did, I had comedy sketches on the local PBS station, radio station. And he did something for Disney and I had contributions, I had sketches in that. I had one sketch on PBS in Lawrence, Kansas. And a ton of, a ton of no thank yous, a ton of, you know, doesn't work for us, that type of thing. And you just keep going. Not unlike a salesman who gets rejected trying to sell it, whatever he's got, you get the same experience with your material. People say no thank you for a lot of reasons. Some of them because the piece doesn't fit them, it's not appropriate for them. It's not up to their standards. It's beyond their standard. You never know. You just keep doing it. And digby had this wonderful lecture one day talking about all the reasons that it's not going to work for you. That writing is not going to, is not going to be your way of life. And he listed about 10 or 15 things that said, you know, the editor is going to screw it up. The publisher is not going to want it. The director of the play is going to screw it up. The actors are going to call it shit. The, and it was just, he had this litany of things that said why this is not going to work. And it's final two, and you're going to get frustrated and fed up and you say the hell with it, I quit. And no one's going to care. So it was like, it was, it was so wonderful in this negative kind of approach. It was in a way arming everyone. Hey, if you go after this, this is no better roses. This is no, don't, don't, don't, don't idealize this thing that somebody's just going to find you and all of a sudden you're in Hollywood because that doesn't happen that way. You get a, you get a lot of, you know, a lot of crumbled paper back and saying, no, thank you. I took about 11 courses would dig me. One of which was a play, it was a screenplay writing class. They did a stage reading of my, of my screenplay. Dig me like did it. It went well. He gave it to somebody and went to Hollywood and came back. And, you know, that's the way it goes. But it was still that, that experience. And he said something at the night of my reading. He said, everybody wants to be right of it. Nobody wants to write. And there's great truth to that. I've been in a number of writing classes and a number of writing groups where people like the idea of being a writer. I think they see themselves smoking a pipe and wearing a beret or something, but they don't actually want to do the grunt work. You know, the picking trouble stuff. And he said to me, in that year, I had written seven screenplays, none of which have ever left the university of New Mexico. And right now we're sitting on some garbage pile somewhere. But I did them because that's what you got to do. You've got to sit there and you keep writing. And you think of all the negative things that are going to happen to you and you keep writing. And then this guy has, and this guy doesn't like, well, and you keep writing. And it's just like this. It goes on and on and on. And, but it's been a wonderful, wonderful experience for me. I found, I found you through a workshop, I took, Ella Perry. And I took the class on poetry. She does one of the things that you got from the workshop is she would edit six of your pieces. She did that. And she also would give you names of places to send them that she thought the pieces might fit. And one of them was your website. And I meet you. And now I'm doing this. So who knows? You know, it's just, I can give you 100 stories of stuff that I did that never went anywhere. And yet there are moments like this that I just keep you going. Yeah, you don't know what's going to happen. And it's difficult. I find that that's what I did a show on last night when we talked about that a bit. But it's difficult to, as a matter of how good I'm ready or how expressive you are as a person to relay to things that can happen. If you're willing to be passionate and and present it because we live in such a society right now that everything has to be black and white. It has to have a beginning, middle and the end. You know, if we can't really evaluate the success if we haven't done this, that and whatever, there's no chance for the mystery. There's no, there's no theory about what could happen. It's just like, I'll do it for a year. And if it don't work, the heck with it. So when you have that kind of attitude, you're never going to be anything as a writer. You might as well just go back. You might as well be an architect or an engineer or a physician's assistant or something because if that's the final existence you want and I'm not mocking it, don't get me wrong. Then maybe that's better for you and in your frame of mind because for the people who do this, there's a thick skinned people that handle rejection. They're the people that continue to believe when everything around them says don't believe. And you just never know what's going to happen. You never know who's going to recommend you. I can tell you a brief story. I haven't really mentioned this much on the show before but I come out of the Air Force and this in the early 90s. 1990s and I was already doing writing but I started entering into play writing and So I I meet this fellow and this is before the internet and computer stuff and everything everything has to be regular mail So I meet I meet this guy off Broadway and he's like, you know, I really like this play he goes, but We're not really sure about how the casting is gonna go and Like maybe we should talk on the phone about this because I'm reading his letter and I don't know what the hell he's talking about Right, but I'm happy that he's talking to me because he's a he's a he's a director of the Harold Cleerman theater back when when there was a Harold Cleerman theater. This is off Broadway and We're talking the phone. He's like You know, you don't really sound black. I'm like, well not but the whole play is about black characters and I'm of that generation. I don't believe I need to be one thing or another if I want to write about something as long as I'm Being accurate and respectful. It shouldn't be a problem. He goes. There's not I was just expecting a black guy. I'm like, okay I go, so what's the problem he goes? Well, here's the problem Everybody in your play is black and because that's everybody's in your plays black These are the very same people that they're willing to work for scale Off-Broadway, Broadway or whatever But with the understanding that the moment someone calls from the agency to do a commercial They're literally gonna leave you flat and that's the end of the story because the money involved in doing just one commercial Could support an actor for an entire year He goes and they got to think about the rent and food too So of course these are things I never thought about it at the time. I'm like, okay, I understand and now I'll we'll all take the chance at it. We do so I go from just getting out of the Air Force I mean, I've been in Germany all over the world and I write I write this play. I wrote a number of plays but this one got picked up and the next thing you know I'm I'm speaking to the grandfather Who played the actor who played the grandfather in the Cosby show? He's the he's the pastor or the preacher in my shirt in my play and I go and he's like don't want me running off to do a commercial No one cares about it. Oh black. I do in a commercial But these other guys you could be in trouble. He goes and I don't need the money. I just like to work I'm like and I live in New York. So I'm like, okay, great So everybody's telling me the whole life story about this and I'm just like sitting here going Can anyone talk about my play? I'm saying that mentally though because this telling me about life and money and all this other strange stuff But that's how things get happy. You just don't know the next thing that you speak to people that you're just watching on TV last week And actually, I'll just talk to them in person, you know and And the director was hilarious. He goes I hope you don't mind the devil being gay I Go well, I got the devil being black. So at this point. I don't think it's really gonna matter to the audience They get they get that it's the devil. So what's what's going with that? So my my devil is black and gay. I'm like all right That kind of works actually because he's really slick in there too and I had the same feeling you did I didn't expect to have that feeling that as I sat there That's how I brought my girlfriend with me too We came over from New Jersey. You took the train and went over there That it was it was a shocking to see people do the do the play hear your words and in all of that because you visualize it And you try to hear it, but it's not the same as when someone else is is saying it I was fortunate we had a three week run and nobody got called I mean, I fortunate for me Obviously, they probably love to be called for commercial versus doing my play, you know And I had to still deal with some of the jokes, you know, because I'm like we thought you were gonna be black. I'm like I'm sorry But you know if you want to call August Wilson be my guest and he'll explain he'll explain to you that Even in black playwright in history The moment they get a chance to do a screenplay and it gets picked up and not doing plays anymore people are trying to make the rent I mean I almost picked out line up from everybody else because I'm hanging out with these Broadway people They're just they were like brainwashing me into this But that was that that was the truth for it all I got it's not my fault It's not a lot of black playwrights, okay, but I'm not trying to make a point other than You know, I thought it was a good way to express some ideas I had and It wasn't funny enough and I think that's why the The director liked this so much is because even though it was a play with black characters It wasn't a play about about racism or anything. It was just normal normal people You know dealing with a more of a religious angle. They just happen to all be black And then I really worked out, but I you know Like what you had to say about that because I remember that that very first time You know one of the things that you brought up it reminded me of it is the thing about why why do you want to write and this I have to tell you this is I think the biggest The thing that probably catches most people and I say why are you doing this if you're doing this because you kind of in love with being a writer Or you idealize some sort of life like that As digby said, you know, everybody wants to be a writer. No one wants to write Then you're in the wrong ballpark Because this isn't going to get you there You can't you've got to do this because You can't seem to help doing it. You just this stuff just doesn't it's it keeps yelling at you to do it And you've got to sit down and write it if you don't have that sense of that My guess is it's probably not for you one of the things it's funny when I I started when people start talking me about my writing and things How often they they talk about and this was early on They say well, you know, have you been published or you're gonna be published? I said I don't know I like to be but I don't know But no one says you know if you if I said I took up golf no one says are you gonna turn pro? You know If you play softball you're gonna try to get into the professional softball leagues But right away as soon as you say you're writing or you get did you get published? You don't have to get published You have to write Because you have to write because something's inside of you is is annoying you is saying would you put this down on paper? This is important right Right this that's why you're writing if you're writing because You want to smoke a pipe and you know and be a screenwriter or playwright some I don't think I don't think that's the motivation It's it's not a Big part of the show I did last night. I hope you get a chance to listen to it amongst other folks Or you got a bunch of people doing so and I'm definitely grateful. I got a few emails back already is You I Hate to sound this overly mysterious about it though, but the truth of the matter is is that You'll know the person is a writer when they can't give you a straight answer because there really isn't a straight answer Even even if you tried to give one you sound like a lunatic. I mean, I write because I hear a voice People like, okay, take care. I'm gonna go now. Bye because that figure you're mentally out, you know? Or like I write because something's calling me like oh my god. He's a joehova witness I mean they just they people just they lose their mind thinking you've lost your mind, you know, so I think I think I think one of the best answers if it's an answer at all because I'm not really sure if it's Answerable is what you had to say I'm doing this because I'm feel like I'm compelled to To get my voice out there. That's usually how I put it is the only way I can think of and I swear to God people still scratching the heads like what? Yes, I'm like listen. I'm not trying to be slick here But I can give you all these technical reasons and you're not gonna understand who care or you think I'm crazy or You'll walk away and tell everybody, you know underneath your breath. He must be on drugs He must be he must be an alcoholic. He must be three times divorced He must beat his kids. It's always some it's always some crazy stirrers. I've been learned from you know a cable show or something So it's a it's a hard thing to explain to people which is ironic because Part of a job is to find things communicate Yeah, I'm gonna be a communicator, but I can't communicate to you why I want to communicate I can't explain this But I I mean I've had characters in my head sometimes just like They're just bothering me. It was like come on come on come on I've had my wife yell at me because we're sitting having dinner and all of a sudden she sees my my head look up in the sky because a story is coming or a dialogue is coming and she was where'd you go and It's embarrassing in a way, you know, it's like I'm sorry. I just left the you know, I was on a plane with this fellow It's just I don't know why that happens and Digby was digby used to always say don't don't dig too deep into this about creativity and and just do it and There's something to that don't intellectualize this stuff. You'll ruin it Yeah, and I agree with that. It's just that people they they have a valid, you know inquiry, you know, why are you doing this or what's it all about or what you get in front of Or you know, have you made any money today? You know, that's what it's saying. Yeah, that's right. I don't really think those are invalid questions I mean I think they were annoying questions, but this this questions that we are called upon to ask and oftentimes we can give a suitable answer. And we live in a culture that measures worth by how much money you've gotten, how much you get in paid to do it. So it's a logical question given our world. And when you tell them, no, I don't get paid for this, I just do it. And there's always kind of, oh, okay, well, you know, I used to play tennis with my wife. I never got paid for that either. And I did it. You know, I go bowling. Nobody's believed me. Nobody's given me money to go bowling. And I, you know, you just do it because you do it. And it's something that some part of you says, it needs to be done. And so you do it. Yeah, I mentioned that in the show that I did just last night, I mentioned that I'm certainly not afraid to talk about it. And I'm certainly not ashamed. It's not a big secret. But I've learned over the years, it's better not to bring it up at all because it's just a whole less nonsense that I have to deal with. Why deal with that, you know? Really. But I was in the Air Force too. It was nice to talk to someone else who's been in. Oh, great. I didn't know that. That's good to hear. I just hit on the bio and that's great. Yeah, late 60s. Yeah, well, you're a little older than me probably. Oh, a lot older than you, I'm sure. But I was in the 80s, but still. Yeah, I was in, you know, I used to tell people, you know, I was in right after the Civil War. You know, I joined, but there was no Air Force then. That didn't start until 47. But, but yeah, I was in back in the late 60s. Never went anywhere. I was an listed guy, just a clerk. But it was a good experience. And it got me away from Brooklyn. It got me to meet people different than the people I knew because I hadn't, I hadn't been anywhere off to that point in my life. So it's, it was, they got more out of me than I'm sure than I ever got than they got. I got more out of them than they ever got out of me. And I'm delighted that I, that I did it. All right. Well, that's great. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you for your service. I, I mentioned it only because I've been fortunate when I was in the service that I got to go to school and graduate and got to drive around the world and got to continue to do writing. So I was able to get yeah, a lot of the things that you dream about wanting to do. Yeah, for us a lot of me to do that. I just didn't choose to want to stay. I just did my six years and went about my business, but I, I was very happy that I did it. Yeah. I, I don't think I would have gone to college without it because I really didn't think I was college material. I had no idea. Nobody I knew was in college. And when I, you know, when I met, I wasn't, I was enlisted when I went in at after high school. And I'm at, you know, I'm at very, very people and people who I could keep up with and who seem to, you know, appreciate what I had to contribute. And I was encouraged to go to college by those people. And I think that would that help give me that sense of confidence that, you know, maybe I could do this. So as I say, I got far more out of the out of the government than they got out of me. And, you know, I wouldn't have brought it up either. Truthfully, had you not said Air Force, I just was pleased to hear another Air Force person. Yeah, I don't get to meet too many of them. And even veterans that all that are that doing anything creative. So it's always, it's always wonderful to hear. When I, after, when I, I was, when I left Maryland, and I went to, I wrote for a few years. And, you know, it, dig me, said to me, said, no, you've got another five years ago before you're ready to do something he was talking about, screenwriting and playwriting. And I didn't have, I didn't have enough money and, you know, it was time to go back to work. And I took a series of jobs. And eventually I got to the point where I was in my early 50s. And I said, you know, just, I'm not happy. I'm not happy doing this. But I've got to work. And I said, what is one of the things that really mattered to me? And one of the things was psychology. I had always had a strong interest in it. It helped me in my own therapy. And I thought, how can I do this? And I eventually, what, make a long story short on this part. I went back and got a second masters in social work. And I became a clinical social worker in psychotherapists with the Veterans Administration. And I got to counsel combat veterans from literally from the, from World War II, right to Iraq. But mostly, most of my clients were Vietnam vets. And it was a wonderful experience. It was the greatest job I'd ever had. I cried my last day there. I mean, I was passed retirement age for me. And it was getting hard to sit and keep focused for, you know, six, seven sessions. And I felt it was time for me to retire. But truthfully, it was, I never felt I worked the day in my life. I went in, I sat with these people. Again, guys that were very similar to the people I grew up with. They were just working class kids. Nobody had any particularly, well, a couple had college education. Most of them were in college educated. They all were suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder, among other things. And it was the greatest experience of my life. And I'm sure some of their stories will leak out in things I do over the next few years. I've written a few poems about it. But it was really a wonderful experience. And I bring this up for several reasons. One of which is this was something, when I was in business, I could do the job because I'm intelligent enough and creative enough to at least be average. But there wasn't much me in it. There wasn't a lot that my heart in it. But when I found writing and then working as a therapist, I was totally in it. And the difference, I wish somebody could have directed me early on in life. You know, you raised by people who didn't go to school, didn't go to, had no education. You know, basically good people. But they just worked. That's all they knew. And so they couldn't really give you guidance in this regard. What I heard more than anything when I was a kid was get a government job because there's a good pension. Well, telling that to a kid is like the most worthless thing in the world. What does a kid care about pensions? But finding that place in life really, it really made me see where I belonged. And it gave me tremendous confidence. And I think that confidence helped my writing also. Yeah, it makes sense. It really does because one of the issues that people have, and I don't mean just starting out as writing. I mean, just they could be doing it for 10 years. It is a confidence issue. It happens a lot. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, so writing people, it doesn't mean that when they you gain it and now you keep it for the next 35 years or something. It doesn't really work that way. Yeah, it's, it's, it's like going through a series of girlfriends, you're going to grab a couple and you're going to lose a couple and it's just a continual path. You know, it's the same thing with confidence. You're going to gain it and you're going to lose it and you got to go gain again. And a lot of people don't realize that. They just think, well, what happened yesterday when you so into it and you were so focused. Well, that was yesterday. Yes, that was Tuesday. Tell you when I know one of my fears always after I get done writing a project is, is that the last one? You know, have I finished? As you know, because the mind, the mind wants to do things logically in linear in a linear fashion. So it assumes there's beginning and end things and there's a quantitative there's a number in your, you know, of stories that you have to tell you have now finished. It's not, that's not reality. That's just a mind's way of, of quantifying everything that it deals with. But I've had that experience many, many times like, oh, god, this is it. I got nothing left. But there's invariably, and I'm always my wife, bless our, it always says, no, don't worry, they'll be more. And sure enough, you know, some number of days later, hi, I got a new idea and I go running off with that. But it's, that's another part of, of the writing, the writing, why it makes writing so unique, is that you're dealing with your mind, and your mind is telling you all sorts of things that have no relationship to your reality. It's over editing everything you're doing, it's telling you you can't do it, it's taking any rejection and saying, you see, this is the earliest in for you. You've got to overcome that. You've got to just say, thank you, I appreciate your help, but I'm gonna continue. And yes, there is another story to tell. I just don't have it right now. I'm, you know, we've just had a harvest, and now we've got to wait until the season begins again. But there, you're forever fighting yourself. If you allow your mind to take over, you're forever having to try to win that battle with yourself to continue doing it. And you know you're going to continue doing it, 'cause the voices are gonna start again with the, why don't you write about this? And, you know, where's that character so perfect? Why don't you put him in that situation? And all the noise that we hear, people might equate writing with psychosis, but the reality is it just, this is what happens. Character show up. Storylines show up. And, you know, it motivates you to get going. Before you know it, you're starting to play around with it and write some things down. And it just, you're slowly gathering characters and situations and where you wanna take it. It's a lovely process. It really is. One of the things that I encourage everyone to do if they're thinking about doing this is get a notebook. I mean, the commitment to this financially is pretty low at the beginning. You gotta get a pen of a pencil and a notebook. So let's say you're out a couple of bucks and just start with journaling. Don't worry about writing stories. Don't worry about writing a bestseller. Just start with journaling. Do a journal every day for 30 days, fill a page. And Natalie says in a book, when you get stuck, write the word stuck. Don't edit. Don't worry about if it's good or not. Hershey says it right in the book. You're allowed to write shit. Write shit. No one's gonna see it. Just keep writing. Make, let the hand keep going. Don't let the hand stop. Fill the page and that's your job for today. Fill the page at one sitting. And then forget about it. And then do it again tomorrow. And then do it again the day after. And write about anything that comes up and it doesn't have to be logical. It doesn't have to flow. It doesn't have to have beginning, middle, ending. Just whatever the mind throws out, just write about it. Just write it down. And do this for a month and see how that was. And go back and read it. And when you go back and read it, pull out lines that you like or phrases you like. 'Cause that may motivate you to write something else. But that's a nice way of sticking your toe in the water. Just to see what that's like. And if you find it really tedious and something that you can't do after one day or two days, then maybe it's not time for you to do it. I would suggest no matter what your dream is, no matter whether it's writing, whether it's learning to ski, whether it's wanted to get a degree in something, start looking for ways to incorporate it into your life. The first thing the mind is gonna do is tell you all the reasons you can't do it. Well, you know, I don't have time, I got kids, my wife needs me, I've got the job, takes a lot of my time. All the noise, some of it is a hiding place. Some of it is a hiding place to avoid trying and avoid God forbid failing. Because that's really the fear of failure that comes up. What if I'm not good at it? What if this dream I've had all my life? Suppose I'm not good at it, then what do I do? Or suppose I don't like it, then what do I do? Don't worry about it, something else will happen. It may be taking you to the next thing. But find something that you can start doing, is there a Zoom class you can take so you don't have to go out to a school? Is there a group that meets that you could join? Is there a book you can read? Is there an exercise you can take? Something that incorporates that allows you to feed that dream a little bit. And see where this takes you. This is where your emotions, in many respects, your emotions are far more important than your intellect. Because the dream is an intellectual, the dream is emotional. What you want to do is coming from a different place and an honest place. As long as you're, if it's, if it's, if you're doing it because you want to make a lot of money, if you're doing it because you want to prestige, that's self-esteem issues and that you can work out with the therapist. But if you want to do it because there's something beautiful in it, there's something that looks so appealing to you to do it. Pursue it, at least a little bit. See what it's like. You may start in that spot and it may move you to someplace else that you didn't even know about. The thing is you went through the door and that door is going to lead you to another door. But you can't do it just thinking about it. Nothing happens until you take action. So if I, if I say nothing today that matters to you, but that, that's probably the most important thing. Because all we're doing, this is all intellectual, this is all verbal stuff. But at some point you got to do it. And I can only speak for myself. Since I started doing this, I've been happier in my life, in all facets of my life. I'm no richer, God knows. I'm no more important, if anything, I'm far less important than I would have been in any other walk of life I chose. But I'm happier in this and that translates to a happier marriage, a happier relationship with others. God knows it must be a healthier. It's got to be better on your heart, your physical health. So feed that part of you. And it's a way of honoring yourself because in a way you're saying, "I'm important enough to try this." So if you're honoring you and that's a wonderful thing, no one has to know you're doing it. Just do it. No one has to know you're reading that book or taking that class or doing that journal, taking the lessons. Just do it and see what it's like. What you might want to do is do it and have a journal while you're doing it and write about how it feels. I love the advice because I know from personal experience and from the things to other people and some of the things I've gone through that it makes complete sense and it really is a practical way of going about things. Because in essence, if you journal anything on a regular basis, really what you're doing is two things. You're getting some emotional release, which is important because you're still questioning whether this is something you wanna do or not. And then also believe it or not, even though you're not being proofreading and self editing anything you're doing, it is a form of writing that you're starting to practice about how you wanna organize your thoughts and what you wanna say. 'Cause later on, you might be able to use that as the source material, which a lot of people do. Absolutely. You're right. It's, I mean, you're going to live in a way for some number of years. Why not enjoy it? Why not do what you wanna do? Television gives you some fantasy. Your life may not be that world that you see on television. Probably isn't. But you're in a world. So find the world that you want to be in. Well, I'm known a lot of people, past and present, that they were unhappy people. And they wasn't unhappy people because they were in a wrong relationship or even in a wrong job. They were often unhappy because they were full of regrets of things they never pursued. They never got the answer whether it could have done something for them or not. Or if they just could have kept it as a, you know, a private or some other kind of happy. I can tell you a story about a guy and make it pretty short for you. But I knew a guy that is very unhappy. And I've known him for a long time. My first guess was, without really having a more intimate conversation about his unhappiness, was he was just stuck in a marriage he didn't want to be in. People are like that all the time. You know, my wife and I were probably one of the few people we know that are still married as long as we are. Everybody we know on both sides of our family, different second and third marriages. So I figured he's on that road. And eventually that broke down, the marriage. And of course, I'm stereotypically thinking, yeah, that was the course he was on. No, this guy was a trumpet player. Nobody knew. He never pursued it in any serious fashion. He did a little bit here, a little bit there, kept it very private. And you know, when about the job he hated to do in a marriage that I don't even know if he was happy in. And when he got divorced, he literally just packed up, took the trumpet, joined the band that he just literally tried out for. And he spent years in the road doing exactly what he probably should have been doing the last 25 years. Just in the last two years, he said he couldn't been any happier doing exactly what he should have done. It took that long for him to finally come to realization that he was unhappy, not because his marriage was bad or any else he was bad. He was just not doing what he should have been doing. And it always always plagued him. I guess it went from nagging to annoying to plaguing to where it literally put him into the depression. And you know, once you finally picked it up. I think the mind, I think the mind says see, it's never going to get better. Our life is just always going to be like this. And that's a depressing thought if you're unhappy. That you know every day you're going to wake up and you're going to go and spend eight hours not being you. You're going to come home. And you know, that a big part of you is not going to be expressed in any way. That's a very difficult thing to to to live with. I can imagine that it is. It's not hard to really understand when you're a writer and you deal with all these kind of things on a regular basis or you hear other people. It's not hard to understand. It's one of the reasons why is somebody who's who's a straight guy learned to understand more about people he knew was in the closet. And why either they decided to come out or why they didn't come out. I had a better understanding of that. You have to be gay to understand that there were things holding people back and also things where you can see why they just decided to hell with this. I need to come out because I'm never going to be fully happy until I do. And I think it's the same. It's the same. It's really the same instance. Absolutely. And the reality versus aren't it's really the same impulse is involved. You're in some kind of emotional prison and that sucks. Right. That's somebody said and I've used it for years. We build our own prisons. And that's a perfect example of it and you use the word. And that's a great. An example of it. Somebody who is holding back their sexuality holding back the real person. For all the real you know all the logical reason that we we know what that's about. But it's still the sadness of that is that somebody is imprisoning themselves. They're in jail holding the key. And they can't let themselves out. And in some cases, it can be a profound change. And a profound change in our lifestyle, in our people who are with. And it's really. It's on, you know, as I say, it's really a frightening thing. But not to do it. It's in a way to put yourself in a little bit of a hell. To say, I'm going to live in, I'm going to live almost like a character. I'm going to live as a character who works in a bank. And, you know, live in suburbs and has 2.3 children. And, you know, and. But that's not really who I am. It's a character I'm playing. Unfortunately, there's only one performance. It runs for 50, 60, 70 years. And then it's over and there's no, there's no second act. So I don't know what choice we have, but to be ourselves. And sometimes being ourselves is going to be scary. But maybe, maybe it'll work out. Now that I've scared the hell out of you for 30 minutes. Maybe it'll work out. Maybe, but you'll find is yeah, it's, it's. This doesn't work this other, but. And there's some reason I'm happier. I like doing this. Well, great. You're a success. You may not be a success in terms of our culture's. Measurement of success. But you are absolutely a success. Because you're being who you are. And is hey, if it's writing great, if it's something else, that's great too. But we always talk about creativity and the arts. It could be somebody who works in the garden. Who decides he wants to be a florist or be a landscape or something, a landscape architect or something. Who knows. It doesn't have to be in the, in the arts. It just has to be you. I couldn't agree more. Many of the things that I talk about on this show regarding the literary life and writing, have numerous applications on on the general basis in life. Because we're still talking about the courage to step forward. We're still talking about the faith to maintain. You know, we're still talking about the strength to endure rejection and even coming from the closest people in your life. And those are things that you still have to deal with in other fields and other things that you're doing. Yes, that's right. Not just for writers. That's right. I just, I just think that the more you're you, the more confidence you gain. And that translates into a lot of other relationships and it translates as you had mentioned before about your, the gentleman you spoke about. And it changes your relationship with people, it changes, it changes you. And it's life affirming. Oh, it is because I remember seeing this guy after not seeing him for like over two years when he told me all of this. Before he even told me all of this when he was coming up to me down on the street. I could already tell that something was different about him. He walked, he walked differently, his bilingual language was something that was Exciting and confident. He he smiled the way he never smiled before his eyes lit up when he was telling me about all this stuff I mean he's like in some smoky Backroom Jazz joint in some town and I've heard of before and he's having the time of his life So I mean, but he's telling me something that it's not just some some story to make me feel good He's telling me about something that he's just totally excited about doing didn't care Yes, he was in a flop house afterwards having a drink because he felt he was doing exactly what he's supposed to been doing And he said there was no feeling like that in the world and I knew everything about the guy was transformed He was just somebody else that had none that been for thank God. I'm a writer. So I was happy for him But if I was somebody else, I'm like, who the hell is this guy because he's not the same guy I knew two years ago I knew that as you know, it's a writer that what he was talking about made sense to me and I was extremely happy for him And I'm also happy for him too that as he long went along with the path of what he was trying to do He slowly tried to pick up some of the pieces of his of his life with his children Even with his wife who became his ex-wife He still tried to reconnect and wanted to be friends again to try to give them an explanation and for them to sort of be part of it It's a way he can eventually invite them as he got the places closer to where they resided at and he was trying to have it all and It looked to me like he was gonna be able to do that, but at least he had a Real honest approach to it versus again living a fake existence which a lot of people live and it's no wonder why so many people A dealing with depression and dysfunction and divorce is because They're not really living authentic lives. They live in some life that someone told him is about to live Whether it was their boss at work or their family members. I remember my father God rest his soul a wonderful guy He had the most Ironic and humorous conversation me one day It's something that people have heard on a TV show they wouldn't believe but he said You know, I'm all for you going to college it makes sense because you don't know how to fix anything And you don't know how to to deal with the world I'm dealing with I like I know I've been telling you after 10 years now You think I'm being a jerk over here. I'm telling you. I'm from Jersey I'm an Italian guy. I'm from this neighborhood But I don't care about cars and I don't care about plumbing I care about books and I care about the girls I want to travel and I want to go to school and this is the way I'm gonna do I'm gonna go in the F-force and I'm gonna get all that done Which is what exactly what I did only one in my entire neighborhood that even went to college Only one because everybody else Family just like my father they work for the union they work on the docs you get your guard you go and you have a whole life of Doing that type of work you're gonna make a good you can make a good income Most of the time they almost not everywhere I except for occasionally they went to Bermuda or they occasionally went to Florida or something But literally their entire life was like in that neighborhood doing those kind of jobs and maybe they have 50 60 70 years and You know, and that's all wonderful. I don't make fun of it It's what brought me in there, you know, I'm one of those few writers that I can't give you any stories of poverty because I don't know what the hell That is we had a pretty normal middle-class life, you know, we were enriched, but we certainly wasn't poor and yeah, but I didn't want any of that. I just didn't want it. It just wasn't for me my brother. He he that was all he was all for that and god bless them He's great, but it wasn't for me. I'd never clicked into me at all I'm still one of those people that I don't even like driving. I drive, but I go on because I have to drive I got to bring you to school so let's go But I don't want to drive if I have a win the lottery or I've got a big bet selling book the first thing I do with my money is I would get a driver because I would never drive again That's come with how much I don't like it. I don't care about how to fix the car. I don't even care about driving the car The car is just a super instrument to get me someplace and if somebody else can get me someplace that's great too So he's the way he literally told me yeah, I think you're the candidate for college mark because you're not gonna fit in this world And I'm like yeah, that I came to that conclusion years ago, but I'm glad we're finally like you know connecting here My my father grew up in the depression and They looked at work very differently than our generation my generation did Uh, they found the job and they held on to it Because they had experienced not knowing where the next meals coming from Uh, and When you know when I talked about leaving Merrill Lynch and and Going to off to write I mean I triggered a lot of noise for this poor man and You know too as credit he didn't like strangle me or anything. He just You know it was like when I was a kid. I said I was gonna drive a truck He said no, you don't want to do that. He said that's hard work and Your body when you're in your forties and fifties your body's not gonna like it and When you were a kid, you know, what do I know? So But that's the way he would talk about it. He he worked very hard and I don't you know He loved his job in the sense of me. He had he had authority and he had he had he knew what he was doing But it was very hard work And he never talked about his his feelings his life his what things that mattered to him But it was interesting after my mom passed We went up to visit him. I don't know where I was living then, but I wasn't new york and We went to visit him and he was playing opera CDs Now my father never I never heard my father put on music anywhere And all of a sudden he's in his 80s and He's got opera CDs playing and I'm thinking I wonder what other things in this guy's life I don't know about because we never discussed it. He never told me He never shared his feelings because truthfully I don't think he ever had The thought that he could do anything but just go to work That was his life He had to help his his father died when he was when my dad was 10 So he grew up knowing that as a as a boy in the family he would have to get a job As soon as possible He quit school He went to work and that's he he just worked and he never thought about What's out there beyond that? You know he he go to the track. He'd go play cards Uh later on in life he went to Florida a few times and you know he thought he found paradise going down there Uh Because it was just he spent his life in a warehouse that had cement floors And you know it broke his body up and stuff but uh He never thought he never complained about it. He never missed work. He just this is what that generation understood So all my stuff that I was dealing with Was absolutely far into him. He couldn't understand what I was talking about Because he never he never thought he had those options. It just would never you know it was never part of his thought process Um Your dad I mean I wish you and I share a couple of things here because my father would have said look A good days work would kill you so you better get a job in an office Because you don't know how to do anything and You know and you're kind of lazy and you know with I need somebody who can work I had somebody asked me if I would work for my father. I said I think I'd rather go to prison Because he was He was not he was not exactly a let's take the afternoon off kind of guy. He was uh If there was work you you know you were gonna do it So That generation and and your father's generation which would have been a you know Younger younger than my dad certainly but A silly grew up with that idea. You know you've got to work And it may not be options You can't just leave and go do something else. My father's generation was like you got a job You don't let go of that job. You don't care what happens Because you may not get another one and if you're going into life with no education uh Whatever skills you got is that's it. That's that's what you're gonna make money on and And then not you know they're not lining up to hire you so If you got a job You shut up and work and uh take care of the family and that's what that was his thought process But I always wanted it when when he played the music What other things about this guy? Don't I know what other dreams? Might have entered his mind just to be pushed away because He didn't have you know he didn't have an opportunity It was really uh really kind of interesting Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing that it's definitely uh tells you something about How Life can be different If you don't feel or maybe if you just don't have You know the flexibility the options that many of us later later on do have You know, I was I was fortunate with that old thank god that My father wasn't a very militant kind of guy And he was more than polite about the situation He wasn't even rude about it. He's just a matter of fact. You can't fit in this I'm glad you're going to college because I don't have a plan for you then if you don't Because there's no way there's no way you're gonna get your union card when you have zero skills on any of this stuff I'm like, yeah, I know I've been saying that for a while now You know, I think I think for a long time. He was just open Maybe this guy will pick up a screwdriver. I'm like no unless it has unless I has vodka and orange juice in it There's no picking up a screwdriver for me, okay? And then he saw the job that was getting Mark you working in the library I thought maybe you'd be apprentice with this guy. He's a friend of mine. I'm like, I don't know what need about that crap Laying down corporate. I walk on the carpet. I'm not laying it down. He's crazy You know, so that's I try to explain it to him. I'm funny, you know my father missed to be maybe becoming an iron worker You work at an iron worker in New York you're a pretty high up You think I'm gonna walk on an iron beam carrying something Are you crazy? God bless them. I mean, that's that's the kind of thing he had in it But then you know, I still I still felt from the experience and my mother laughed about it more than I did But I still felt from the experience that he was a little exasperated But the other point of it too is that he's still trying to be a father and still trying to be looking out and in his own strange way A loving manner of you know, I just want to be able to go back to work and know that you're gonna have a plan and because you know I my whole idea about having a plan on things because I'm a planning nut comes from my father my father has always been about you need to have a plan About anything, you know, I mean even if you go into the damn grocery store. What's your plan? You know, there's gonna walk around and spend money for nothing if you have a plan you could conserve money and Keep on with the budget if this kind of stuff we'd say and as I grew up and had my own family He was writing a lot of that stuff and I I kind of like took that in regardless of if I didn't take his lifestyle I certainly took a lot of his ideas because he was writing a philosophy Just was wrong in terms of you know the world out love about what I wanted to do but I was happy about that and and we we always laughed about that my my my mother told him for years He's not gonna work on the doc. He don't even like swimming And literally he came up to me later on he goes Yeah, your mother said you're doing the Air Force He goes is that because you don't like swimming? That's why you didn't join the Navy. I'm like no dad I went to join the Air Force because they have an easier plan for me to be able to get a college education unlike the other services So and also because if you score very high on the military a test to get into the service you could pick the Air Force You don't have to go into the army and do nothing but shoot people and you kind of hard to convert that when you go back home You know I go that's the reason why you know Because they were they were upset in some ways because I got a scholarship, but I turned it down. I was like listen I want to see the world as well as going to school This allows me to do both if I take this scholarship when am I gonna do this scholarship to scholarships just a tuition based one Which means I still need to be able to have money to do everything so now I gotta work my butt off and And then go to a school on a local basis in an area. I don't want to be at anymore I don't want to be in the Jersey for another four years and four years I can see all kinds of things. Why would I want to stay here? I really saw this stuff already You know, so it's just Sometimes difficult to explain that to folks that don't mind being there You know and I didn't I didn't hate being there. I Happy from being from New Jersey. I mean, I don't live there anymore. I don't want to live there anymore, but I didn't want to stay there anymore. There's there's a whole world to see you if you read books you look at things You know who's to say I can't visit Paris and learn things or go to Germany or go to Japan and all the places that Been around the world well you could do that if you want to do that if that's one of your goals Yeah, they could do that and if I want to be a writer and I did and still am those Experienced they helped me along the way and I knew I can do that all Still go to school and have the government pay for it all why not? We don't have to be rich and I've been to 32 countries and I got a four-year degree and I didn't spend a dime I didn't spend a dime other than to drink You know and believe me if I could have figured out a way for the government to pay for my drinks. I would have did that too I couldn't unfortunately, but I tried believe me Good Yeah, that's that's that was my plan. You know my father's right. You got to have some kind of a plan You know when I told him the plan he's like that's He goes that is that even possible? I go yeah, it's possible. This is a volunteer force sound like your day Would he really grab you and throw you on the bus to go to the go to Vietnam? Now you can actually volunteer and to get you to volunteer To give you a lot of stuff, you know, which I've been using the rest of my life health care I bought two houses already with the VA loan bill, you know So many things you could do and why not? Yes You know one other thing that I want to Point out and you just you kind of triggered it I got my Masses in social work. I was in my early 50s I used to joke at school that I was older than all the students most of the teachers and Most of the buildings I believe it and truthfully That's when light in some ways that's when life began for me That job I getting that degree got me to the vet center and and and doing that job Age has nothing to do with this conversation as far as I'm concerned I don't care if you're 80 years old It's well. I'm old so what do it anyway? You're gonna be 80 regardless. Why don't you just do it? If there's something you want to do and as long as it's physically you're physically able to do it Don't let age be a barrier Because that may again be just a way of avoidance It normally it normally is it becomes a does another Another excuse in the whole litany of excuses on why you shouldn't do this Yes, you're you're you're you're here You're breathing you're you know you're upright Do Now you've got the chance do it while you got the chance Even if it doesn't get you to wherever the the the the the finish line You're still going to we benefits of allowing yourself The opportunity to be you Whatever that means Well, definitely um I I feel The right course for more people to be happier You know if they emit certain things and then try to put together some kind of plan in in that direction You know, I don't know if It's everybody is suited to do it. My friend did by literally Dropping the marriage picking up the trunfren and hitting the road because that's literally what he did It almost sounds like a country song, but he really did that but And that work for him that's great, but maybe other people can do that in a way where they've come to that admission And now they want to figure out how to keep it all but maybe do it in a gradual way to work it into their lives That's okay, too. There's nothing wrong with that That's right That's exactly right as I say it's take the step Take the first step whatever that is Read a book do the journaling do you know take lessons in it in whatever it is Get involved in it be a volunteer Uh It's it's something that gets you into the place That will allow you to be Be you be that aspect of you that's been That's been repressed That that part of you comes out a little bit and Don't you know There is a million reasons not to do it. I can give we can do that we can do a whole show on why not to do it, but To be you to be the real person you are That is I think it's honoring yourself It's honoring if you believe in the supreme being it's honoring the supreme being that who put you here Uh, and it's It's giving the world whatever unique talent you have in whatever area you're interested in You're making the world just a little better by that I agree and I think Many people accused writers particularly of being a selfish lot And maybe there's some truth to that, but I don't always think that that's necessarily a bad thing So to look out for yourself to try to find ways for yourself to be happy and if this is one of the ways to do so To find some creative outlet that allows you to be happier than you were last week Let's say or something that I don't know why that selfishness is supposed to be bad. I'm all for Do the honor and sacrifice. I'm a veteran just like you are. I'm all for that. I understand that but It doesn't mean that I'm supposed to be miserable all the time Because I'm a husband or because I'm a father because I have a mortgage, you know or because or because my kids It's driving me nuts today if something, you know I'm supposed to always be miserable who says this. There's no hallmark card that says that so you know His all my card you must be miserable. Yeah, you know, no, of course not So we should be I know someone said America's going wrong because people are too selfish. I mean, I got a different viewpoint on that I think in many ways our country's going wrong because we don't care enough about ourselves Let alone our neighbors and I think once we start caring more about ourselves, we might actually care more about our neighbors That's right If if you accept the fact that most people are in jobs. They don't like their lives that may not be really reflecting their interests It's saying it's the reason why we're unhappy. Yeah, I think there's a lot of that unhappiness Manifest itself into so many negative things that happen in our world This is part of the self-actualization is part of the normal process of life and These are these are things we should strive for and loving yourself is not A negative that's a positive thing It's caring about yourself honoring yourself is not it's not selfish Uh And I understand that the you know that people say well if I do this I can't do I can't do these other things for the kids and stuff They'll be fine They what your kids want they want to know that they can trust you they want to know that you'll be there for them And they want to know you love them and that you care and you're interested in them They didn't ask you to give up your life And you're teaching them a very valuable lesson about honoring their own skills and goals You know you're not looking at your kid is saying what you've got to become a lawyer because I want to look good to have my son my son's a lawyer Just we want I want to honor myself and I want you as my child to honor himself and to find the things that matter to him It's a wonderful Wonderful lesson to teach your children It is help find what you like doing and do it and help to find what they want to You know if you can help I mean sometimes they got to do a lot of that like work too and that's fine But you're one of the at least be supportive and I agree with you. That's why I don't have any Stereotypic objective for them other than you know, I'd like them to go to college if it really feels that that's necessary for them to do so and They don't just like my father says okay. Okay. What's the plan? It sounds weird, but I always found that what he had said those words always made the most the most sense to me I've always lived by those few things that he did say to me that made sense because you know He's a lot of stuff that didn't make sense to me and I'm like all right That sounds like a union meeting from last night after three beers, but what's the plan that always made sense to me because he's right I mean Half of excesses really about some kind of preparation so yeah, you got to have some kind of a plan even if it's a bad plan It's better than no plan, right? You know? Yeah Well Bruno, I really appreciate it. I mean, I obviously a show like this is important to other writers But I've said this before and I don't know how much Folks have taken that part of it seriously that the show even though it talks about writing and about the arts You know, it's still show about humanity and it's still a show about Being human and having to be distrempt to be human. That's why we call it that show because my philosophy is always been that people A torn in life for centuries now that It's like they're not allowed to be human. You got a you got a science that says it's not good enough to be human You have to be superhuman and you got religions are often saying human is weak. You need to be supernatural So all you got these two forces wanting to be something other than well, I could be the plumber, you know who likes theater I mean, I can't be the writer that wants to go to the ballet. I can't be the the gay guy that wants to play football. I mean It makes no sense because When you get stuck With these stereotypical parameters they restrict your freedom and oftentimes that means that they restrict your choices You know, it's like you're stuck in the brave new world, you know, you can't be the plumber because you were born to be the engineer And that's all you can ever be because someone pre-programmed you to do that from the moment you were Conceived so we don't want to have that kind of world and I think sometimes Even though we don't have that country thank God we have we still have a social attitude that you know that says that Success is measured by how big of a house you are You know how many children you have or you know it don't matter if you're unhappy which is incredible that people will say You know, I'm really proud that my both my son's the lawyers and it doesn't really matter that they're deeply unhappy and they're on the second and third wife And they're in debt up to the ears, but the lawyers, okay, and that's great. I don't know what the hell was so great about that Yeah, that's you know, that's because the parents self esteem is so low. They need to be propped up by their kids So they're sacrificing their children To make them look good. Yeah, there's some they've got to go to law. There's some truth to that I'm just so fortunate that I had really normal middle class parents One union shop stood and one nurse and they wouldn't try to be anybody with that and they were happy with that Yes, so as long as I had a plan that's all they care about you know Sometimes I would get a little little cruel and cynical my father I'm like you just carried it. I'm out of the house and I'm not broken You have to give me money other than that, you know, you're like no, you laugh and say no I if I can't give you the union card you need to have a damn plan to go do something with your life That's that's what my job is is your father make sure you're gonna go do something that's gonna be worthwhile So and that and he was right about that and I feel the same way with my kids as well, but uh Yeah, that there's a lot That you can learn from the creative arts whether it's writing or sculpting or whatever That can help I I feel a lot people become more who they're supposed to be and maybe gay gather that self-esteem that they've lost I mean I'm known people that they entered marriages and they said that They became lost because It's not really what they wanted to do. It's just what it was expected of them You know and I think that's the problem is many times people Wind them being unhappy later in their life because they found all these other people's expectations I'm like what the hell happened to yours. You go. I don't know. I don't know where they are anymore So that that's a sad thing you need a lot of people That way yeah, there's a lot of people that way But I think that there's also in that some some time Some chance that people can turn it around I think the worst thing you can hear from somebody When they've identified that this has happened to them is that they say well I think it's too late, you know and my my my family's always been that it's it's not too late You just need to grab the the reins here and stop this friggin runaway training and go somewhere else do something different Even if it's in a small baby step way, but no, it's not it's not too late But it's it's it's gonna be too late if that's always gonna be your refrain whenever someone Challenges you or whenever even you challenge yourself when no one's looking or no one's listening, you know As long as you think that there is you're gonna be stuck in that prison You know and you're gonna be stuck in the prison and you're gonna be mad because you're gonna say the wardens a big jerk And then when you look in the mirror you realize you're the warden so yeah Very good. That's absolutely right And I Bruno I definitely appreciate it being on the shoulder Bruno with the signal A fellow fellow Italian folk there a New Yorker I'm from the Jersey So you know where in that competitive race in America over here because you know We're not supposed to get along according to cultural history over here We're supposed to hate each other and cross each other, but as you can see that's another silly concept. That's not always true I've had a few things And thank you for really sharing all of that. I think people are gonna get a lot out of the show and they're gonna feel like I feel that Even when we don't mean to you're gonna you're gonna I think go into other areas of people's lives with it with a show like this and they can get something more from it They don't have to be a writer or want to be a writer to understand that Maybe there's something I can get out of this that's positive and useful that I can you know correct my own ways or Possibly you know gain some faith that didn't have before because I really think people are needed that more than ever in our country All right folks until next time this is probably I think it is actually the last show of 2022 Which is great. It's a wonderful way to enter to show with Bruno and his wonderful take on things and some of the stories he's told you. You're just not going to hear that anywhere else and that's another reason why I'm always happy about this show is it really brings out stuff you're just not going to hear otherwise. And it's an excellent way to end the show starting next month which is literally next week. It'll be year number five for this show so we continue on and don't forget folks. I made a lot of things and I made fun of this in the past and I still do but remember I was on the network that literally told me Mr. Rossi we don't really know if you could do a show like this because of the way you sound. So apparently if you sound like you're like I don't know a nephew in the sopranos you can't do a show about intellectual art or anything because you know I'm supposed to be a boxer or I'm supposed to be a mob guy or something. I can't be actually interested in books in the world. God forbid but I've gone into five years there they're very happy I'm happy the audience continues to grow so again another another serious stereotype down the drain so I want the other people dictate you. I gave them eight shows in the can and I said put them down there and see what happens okay. What's the worst thing that happened? You don't like it then you can pull it. What can I say? I can't do anything about that but I can't change the way I sound. I'm not going to change the way I sound and I certainly don't expect your definition is true you know. I mean Bruno would tell you we're from people that literally created art in science. That's who we are. The most of those things on this planet came from Italian people who invented it so what regardless of Hollywood has us in a corner where you know we're seeing an Adriano day or shooting people well guess what we've done more before and we'll do more afterwards so don't anybody put you in some corner or some box like that you know and just like I'm telling you now I've never had a show about boxing or the mob on this show because guess what I'm not interested in either one of those subjects all right so this tells you that there's some silly stuff over there you know I folks God bless God bless you Bruno I hope we can have you again in the future especially you have another project maybe or something like that you want to promote or maybe you just want to stop by and share something and you're definitely welcome to do so all right folks until next time and next year God bless and take care thank you for all your support strength to be human mark Anthony Walsy to universe signal take care bye bye thank you for listening follow the show and support our efforts by visiting our sponsors at www.strengthtvhuman.com or purchasing an ebook at www.somapublishing.com