S4 E10: Supporting Fraud in a Centralized Environment

And I've always said I want to drive two to three percent of any sale. I want it to be related to ops and that was really how could we reduce bad debt on the backside and then prevent the volume of delinquency notices, all that extra work that it goes with when we make a mistake in screening. You know, I think that that disability for the on-site team still understand that application journey is a critical one because they are still the ones that are having a lot of correspondence in communication directly with that applicant. But ultimately, the decision lies at the centralized screening layer. Welcome back to Tech Talk with 20 for 20 and the last conversation in our series of deeper dives into fraud prevention in multi-family. We are finishing our series today with a conversation about centralization and in particular, how different organizations are supporting screening and fraud prevention in a changing environment. We have three different companies. We have a Marley Murdoch of Western wealth communities. We have Christie Weinstein of BH and we have Gardner Rees of Greystar. Each tells us about their own journey in admin centralization and we talk about the fit between fraud prevention and screening and centralized services, the benefits of compliance, the benefits of consistency and also, of course, the significant cultural changes that result from changing the way that we deliver a core service like screening. It's a great conversation, perfect place to finish this series and now I bring you fraud prevention in a centralized environment. Elyse I automates rent recovery with precision. Elyse proactively follows up with renters on upcoming and outstanding balances, communicates any applicable fees, answers payment questions and shares available payment options all without added to your team's workload. Every resident stays informed and every dollar stays on track. Elyse I delivering revenue through intelligent AI automation to learn more, go to ElyseI.com or click the link in the show notes. Okay, so to, to sort us off, we've brought this group together because we wanted to have multiple different perspectives. Centralization is a very, very fungible term. It means different things to different companies and we wanted to have three distinct, different business models and experiences. So let's start off by each of you just giving us a bit of a state of the state. What is your, what is your journey towards centralization look like? Marley, let's start with you. Okay, great. Thank you. Our centralization journey started approximately four years ago. I'd sat through a few conferences, heard some of the pioneers, the people I call the 1.0 people who started with centralization. And at that time we were looking, the industry was looking at centralizing three main pieces of the business. You were either going to centralize maintenance, leasing, or you're going to centralize admin. And so when we started doing the due diligence on how we could apply centralization to our organization, we looked at all three of those areas and we decided to jump in at the administrative level. And our journey is different in this respect, biting off the chunk of administration. First, we weren't looking to replace anyone. We weren't looking to reduce headcount. We were not on that journey. What we were looking to do after doing a ton of research was improve compliance across our portfolio. So taking the job out of 25 people's hands and putting it into three subject matter experts, hands for lease document preparation tasks. So that would be all things related to move in paperwork, move out paperwork, renewals and transfers. We do have a significant percentage of transfers every month. And so what we were really looking to do was drive better compliance to both process and policy, reduce training across the portfolio. As you all know, it takes a lot to train our onsite team members. So we were looking to encapsulate that into these three subject matter experts who are going to be the centralization team at the time, also to have more control and just have better reporting. And that's where we started with our centralization. And so we're still there now. And we have looked at centralizing other things, other aspects of our business. But right now we are in a holding pattern on those things while we launch into automating and centralizing screening. So Molly, couple of questions for those who aren't familiar with with Western wealth capital. Say a little bit about your portfolio and the kinds of properties, demographics and so on. But did it there? Well, Western wealth communities was born about six years ago from Western wealth capital. And Jennifer Stichokis is the president of our organization. And she came to she came to build this company really centered around technology and innovation. And our portfolio has expanded and contracted over the last couple of years as many as many organizations have. We're right now at 6,000 units. We're headquartered out of Phoenix. And most of our assets sit in Dallas, suburbs of Dallas and Phoenix, Arizona, and then some in Las Vegas. And you're looking at primarily B-C plus portfolio. And our applicants are of that same group. And we have a very steady workforce, but where we were finding the training was falling off was let that turn over. And where so that's one of the areas that we were really focused on like we're hey, we can't train. People had to consistently do this one thing the same way. And we needed for purposes across the entire organization to really address major because we're a nimble organization. Jennifer built a small organization on purpose by design. And so we were having a significant number of issues in let's say on the accounting team. So we build our centralization efforts around how to solve some of those issues. We were having customer service issues. So how can centralization help that? And so we were really trying to take those those large groups of problems and solve them through centralization. So we could remain nimble and relatively small as a as a as a people organization. And you mentioned the admin was the initial focus. Let's have a quick definition of what you're what what you mean when you say admin. So when I'm talking about the administrative tasks on site, I'm primarily talking about anything that has to do with lease preparation. So all the moving paperwork starting at post application, at the moving like the moving cost sheet, if you will, from that process. All the way through to least being lease preparation, signature, counter signature. And then from there, we would move into the move out process, which would be the move out documents, how they're handled, the deposit accounting. And then from there, we would move on to renewals. So high administrative stuff. This is what most people would say is the assistant manager's role. But in our organization, it can kind of move between the assistant manager, maybe share it a little bit with the leasing insult and also with the property manager. So and then lastly, anything related to do with transfer document, lease documents. So as we're transferring, we have some properties that are very close to colleges. So as we're preparing that dock, that lease that lease preparation and execution would all go through the centralization team. One last question. Where does sort of screening and fraud fall into this? Is that part of what you would call lease preparation or? Well, it's the second part of our centralization efforts. So initially, we were going to hire a team to work on behalf of using our old methods and our old products to run all of screening. And I quickly realized as I was going through building the centralization team and we were launching it and figuring and fine tuning it, I found that there are some pieces of this that can be automated. And there are some new products out on the market that are going to be more efficient in automating the pieces that we were concerned about automating or that we were really concerned about having higher compliance and control over. Then we could do ourselves as a centralization group. Awesome. Okay. So we will come back to those topics. Gardner, let's go to you next. So from from small and nimble to to rather larger tell tell tell us a bit about great stars on experiences. I'm sure and hopefully small and nimble to large and nimble. But you know, that's that could be argued. It's interesting listening to Marley's sort of history of centralization and how she and team have built and and looked at centralization. Dars is very similar. You know, we also started about four years ago and saying, you know, the the ideal intensive centralization is to drive more consistent practices, more consistent compliance and ultimately, great stars, a third party property management company. So ultimately, drive better economics to our clients. There's got to be economics somewhere in adding technology or platforms like this. And so we're always interested in seeing where that economics can come from and how much of that economics. The four three categories, Marley listed, ad mimly, seen and maintenance. We also started our journey on those three aspects very similarly. I'm thinking that, you know, maintenance centralization could ultimately in pockets across the United States could have centralized maintenance services so that, you know, you don't have downtime on any one property. The property of 300 units may have five maintenance people. And two of them might be down because like just have downtime because everything's running smoothly. Whereas another property has five maintenance people who are working, you know, night and day and overtime. And so ideally, could we reduce both properties to three and then have two floaters or three floaters that could go out there and centrally work the environments and make sort of the economics for the properties a little better. We at Graystar have found that both the maintenance and leasing did not meet the demand as much as we expected. And so we've actually pulled back on those two and we're rethinking the centralization environment around those two aspects. The admin centralization, as Marley talked about, the assistant property manager is working really well. We probably still have it in a pilot environment with 10-15% of our properties. And moving all the admin off, right? We think of the admin side more from when the resident becomes a resident through their life cycle. So until they move out. Prior to that, they're being, you know, they're going through an automated process for application. But once they move in, you know, anything they do, maintenance work orders, you know, paying rent, etc., renewals, transfers, etc., can be managed in a central environment with our ultimate goal of consistency to cross-platforms, but also looking at economics for our clients. Yeah, I mean, I guess you have such enormous and diverse base of owners that you control far less of the variables. When you're trying to define a centralization platform is kind of about finding the common denominator between the different properties that you're supporting. Yes. And, you know, Graystar does manage obviously a lot of units. We're up over a million units now across across the country and across the world, really, but really just focused on the U.S. You know, we're in almost every market, specifically every major market. And we manage properties from, you know, affordable students up to high rise, eight plus buildings and downtown city centers. And so you're absolutely right. Every owner has specific needs and will dictate what those needs are. And some of them are interested in the centralization, some of them may not be. Some of them may want sort of the white glove service that's provided with on-site personnel. So, Christy, I know that the BH has made very substantial strides on this over the last couple of years. Tell us about your journey. Okay. Good deal. So, BH is a owner operator, large third-party manager, you know, close to 100,000 units across the United States. So just given some insight there. Our journey actually started in 2019 when we started to centralize the renewals process. And so taking that renewals process from the site teams and providing dedicated teams that's going to help kind of get renewals across the finish line sooner, quicker, faster, all that good stuff. And then, you know, through 2020 and 2021, what we learned is, you know, what Marley mentioned was compliance, consistency was a bit of a challenge. And so that was a big indication to us that we needed to put some solutions in play to support the vast changing environment that was happening across, you know, the landscape or multi-family at that time. And then we also knew that our primary focus to support kind of decentralization efforts was to improve the customer experience. Ultimately, what changes were we implementing that weren't going to negatively impact that experience, remove some friction, and provide some better faster service there as well. And so, you know, today, our centralization effort is what we've dubbed to be known as the "Ment experience." And it really makes up four big components. And that is starting out with our BH contact center. And so like Gardner mentioned, right, the leasing process. And so when someone picks up the phone, they want to schedule an appointment, they just want to hear information. We've got a dedicated team of people that are supporting that communication and that relocation journey out of the gate. So those relocation specialists are supporting all the way from, you know, toer to appointment to post post tour follow-up. And we knew that that was an area that we had some real opportunity where we have people and automation that is supporting that process today. The second piece of that is our centralized screening efforts. As we've already kind of mentioned, there is definitely an area of opportunity to take this, the actual screening process from the site level, move that into a centralized overview to help support compliance, to help support consistency. And really, I think ultimately, to help support a reduction in some of the broad and sophistication of fraud that we're seeing in that space. And so that's the second piece. The third piece is our resident account management. And this is what I would say is that, you know, typical kind of assistant manager role in responsibility, removing part of those processes and bringing that into a centralized function. We're talking about your delinquency management, your accounting month end, your deposit accounting process then. We're talking about past resident collections. That's what's happening in the world of our resident account management, also known as our RAM team. And then the fourth component remains today, which is the renewals. That is, it was a strong indication to us that we can do centralization back in 2019. And then expanding, because we knew here's the thing at the end of the day, if we were removing an assistant manager position at the site level, they do more than just the delinquency management at the accounting month end. We all know this, right? In the world of multi family. So we knew we had to supplement that position with the four components, which is somebody driving renewals, somebody driving application approval, somebody answering the telephone, setting appointments, and then following up with those to enhance that tour experience. So that's really the four core parts of Armand experience today. And we continue to refine that process every month. Yeah. And Chris, Chris, you've got a mixture of owner-operator and third-party managed properties. Is it generally the case that everybody uses the central services? Is it some mixture? It would be amazing if everybody would use the centralized service, like if we could have some consistency. The good news for BH is that I'd say 85% of the portfolio is on the centralized platform. And so we've got a handful or two of communities that still want to kind of operate the pre-centralization era. But we see such great success in that, in this centralization, where the majority has adopted that model. Got it, got it. And we'll come back to centralization and more, that's very into screening and more detail after the break. But a couple of you mentioned where how screening fits into that picture. Mali, just so quickly before we go to a break, tell us where fraud and screening fits into the picture that you described. Right. Originally, we had planned to fully centralize. It was to hire a team to manage the screening from start to finish for all of our applicants. And while we were, it began the due diligence on this aspect of centralization, we quickly realized that there were a lot of vendors in the marketplace that we could look at to help us with automation versus centralization. So our new, we are currently piloting a program right now to automate screening. And we have one person now who manages all executive level decisions. So if it's an override or if it's a more complicated situation that needs to be looked at, we have one person in charge of that. So we sort of did up a hybrid centralization optimization model to solve this problem for us. We understood that there was quite a bit of fraud in the marketplace, but we also knew that we really, for our company, for compliance, for policy, and for most importantly fair housing purposes, we needed to take the people out of the underwriting process. And that was our initial mission. Everything else that came after that was really just icing on the cake. And one of the other things that we were really looking at was, how do we drive operational value from operations? This is one of my favorite conversations is how, how can we tell an owner about what our value is as an operations team? I want it to be related to ops. And that was really, how could we reduce bad debt on the, on the backside and then prevent the volume of delinquency notices all that extra work that goes with when we make a mistake in screening. And we went to that person and then the management of that person through their life cycle. There is an enormous amount of work that goes along with that. So we were also trying to reduce that workload on our on-site team members and drive a better resident experience. We'll come back to some of the details after the break, but just to sort of wrap that up, it sounds like you've moved more decisively towards automating the process under centralized control. Is that okay? Got it. Got it. Okay, so, so, so, Gardiner, before we go to the break very quickly, where does, where does screening fit at Gracer? We've, we've focused primarily, very similar to what Marley is doing. We focused, you know, very much on automation of screening, which I guess could be considered a decentralized environment where, you know, the any applicant going through our system, we encourage them to go through the system on online application. If they must do a paper application, we have systems that allow for that. But an online application where the application system will allow, you know, collecting all the information and then automatically going into a screening tool. And that screening tool, as I said earlier, based on the client's desire, you know, based on the demographics, the geography of the property, we'll have certain screening criteria set up from property to property and an applicant will go through that automatic tool and will come out of that tool, in the matter of seconds, ideally, will come out of that tool with an approval or a denial based on their credit, their criminal income verification, etc. So, the, as Marley said, the the ideal situation is getting the human aspect taken out of the screening process, so that an applicant for fair housing reasons for fairness, you know, for, you know, general business practices, an applicant will be approved or denied based on their own merits and not based on any influence by human interaction. Got it. Okay. Thanks very much. We are going to go to a quick break. Screening new applicants shouldn't mean your onsite teams have to chase down paystubs. With Western reporting's digital income verification by Enhabis, income checks are automatic, helping to stop fraud of the source and results that delivered right inside your screening reports. That means faster, smarter decisions and less risk for your properties. To learn more, go to Westernreportsing.com or click the link in the show notes. All right, so we talked before the break about generally where fraud fits into the picture of centralization. Chris, yeah, I'd love to drill a little bit deeper into how the processes work. What I have been observing over the last couple of years is as people centralize admin services, the bits of the process and the bits of the service tend to get more and more specialized. Tell me how fraud fits into the sort of application process picture and how you support it. Yeah, I think it's a really good question because you're right, you're spot on for at least from a BH perspective around the centralization efforts. When I talked about the kind of the four core components, each one of those has a specialized group of individuals that are supporting that centralization efforts. So those that are managing and working in our BH contact center, that is the function of their job. They are specialists in that role. Same thing with regard to the screening function. I've got a group of individuals that are managing that application process and providing a recommended output from start to finish. So once the application, which is an online automated application, we get the information, we will process that through the screening requirements, which is going to be our income verification, our fraud document verification, as well as criminal and credit review. And then we get that recommendation and then we're able to help facilitate the next steps with our onsite teams and the applicant directly. I think an important piece there is the visibility that is still required operationally at the onsite level around the application process. So for BH, we've wholly removed that full decision making off from the onsite teams and even the processing of it. And I know it's been mentioned here, you know, the automation, you know, for BH, we're continuing to refine and get to a more automated place. We've been in the midst of some technology changes in order to support the centralization efforts. And so, you know, I think that that visibility for the onsite teams to still understand that application journey is a critical one because they are still the ones that are having a lot of correspondence and communication directly with that applicant. So I imagine this to figure this out and to get it so that it works. Well, there's a huge amount of focus you have to put on communication, right? So the central team has to have a good way to communicate with with with prophecies. What was what was that part of engineering the process like? Yeah, if I could do it over again, kind of question. So I look at that one where we started and where we have come. You know, what's interesting about the the screening process and the journey that BH took is that, you know, originally, I think we had mentioned there was this ability at our onsite teams level to provide some sort of an override. You know, the conflict of interest of, you know, getting the head in the bed versus the qualified applicant in the door. And so kind of removing some of that friction, we started at an infancy of when they go through a credit or criminal check, if there is some sort of an alert on that report. You know, we didn't the longer want to leave that decision making to the onsite teams for all the reasons that Gardner mentioned earlier for the consistency of the compliance. And so that was like the the very start of the journey for us is a centralized group of folks we called them internally. It's a hard stop. The application couldn't go any further until this group of individuals did a review to say, is there some additional information that we may need from this applicant in order to get them into an approval state? And then from there, it was like, okay, why are we stopping? Why are we just looking at this one little piece of the process? And I think, you know, 2020, 2021 is really when we started to see and feel the fraudulent income documents, the fraudulent documentation. We saw a spike in the evictions due to some of the the fraud that was occurring. And then we there was obviously a hardship at that time in moving through the evictions process to get a qualified applicant into the home. So it was like, okay, from a compliant standpoint, we really need to govern this a little more, and we need to implement some additional solutions into the process. And that's when we started looking at, okay, what is the technology that we're leveraging? What are the solutions? What are some of the layers that we need to start implementing? And so we really did, we didn't change, you know, our CRM and we didn't change who our screening provider was, but we layered in an income and an ID verification solution into the process and then started to refine from there. I would say that the first summer that we launched the centralization of screening was we underestimated the volume of applications and the speed to decision that was going to be needed. That was probably the biggest lesson that we learned, right? Is that when that friction of removing that responsibility of the onsite teams to provide this approval process, centralizing that and needing to get a decision made quickly. Again, right, that these the folks that are unsighted or incentivized by getting an approval and getting a qualified applicant into the home. And when we are impeding in that process, it now became this friction between our onsite teams and our centralized efforts to say, but we can do this better faster. And so, you know, that's when the communication piece really became critical on how much insight of the journey should they be a part of? How do we keep them informed on where we have our own kind of friction and getting additional documentation back from the applicant that's delaying our ability to make a decision? You know, the kind of we we refine that quite a bit where when we implemented a new CRM, now there is singular insight into the full journey of that that life cycle and the application process of folks can have the right disability into into the process. But yeah, I would definitely say it was a journey and it still continue to be in refinement. So, just just one last thing on the sort of friction that you describe, is it mostly to do with where, you know, we're declining more applicants than we used to? Or is it more just the workload of processing the stuff? I think it's a mixed bag, right? I mean, there's definitely the declining of maybe more applications than what a community was maybe used to because there is now this governance over the process. And so, that's right, again, because of that incentive, they really wanted to understand the why and how can I help solve for that when there is no solve? At the end of the day, right here is the qualification process either qualified or they don't qualify. And so, I say it's that part and then it's really that just visibility into not knowing where the status of the application is, right? You've got that applicant calling and saying, where am I? How am I approved, right? The rush to a decision. And so, they feel that pressure and so supporting kind of that pressure of the applicant needing to know a decision. So, they can start doing the next parts of their move and journey, you know, was it was tough because, you know, you think about your leasing agents before we took that centralization, they knew where it was. They knew that it was stalled and whether it was a criminal or a credit check or whether or not, you know, they were waiting for, you know, the roommate to return some sort of income document. They had that visibility. And so, you know, when we originally took that over, they didn't have that visibility anymore. And it felt really hard to support, you know, the continued, you know, customer support that was needed in that in that process. So, you know, my recommendation is, like, if you're going to go down that path, you've got to be able to have that visibility, enough visibility for your onsite teams to continue to support the journey. You know, I often talk about, like, this idea of a teacher tracker, right? If you can give even your applicant that visibility of where is my pizza in the making, the less questions you're needing to answer, stay in thing for your onsite teams. They also needed to know exactly where the process was. You know, the pizza was in the making to help support the conversation with the applicant as well. Awesome. So, Marley, tell us about how you have your journey on from the process perspective. Well, in our endeavor, we were really trying to get people completely out of the underwriting process, as I've said. So, we partnered with a vendor who did that. And we poured all of our resources and efforts in the initial launch of our pilot into training our onsite team members to talk to the applicants about what an easy application process this is. If you bank link, we can get you approved in probably less than 24 hours. So, we put a lot of time and energy into that piece of the screening process. And to Christie's point, I love the pizza tracker. I always talk about the pizza tracker and how exciting it is for everyone to have that level of control. And so, both we did find a product that solved for that. So, both the applicant knows where they're at, and they communicate directly with the vendor. And then also our onsite team members are where throughout the entire lifecycle of that screening process where the applicant is and where they can intervene. One of the friction points and some of the interesting things, and this is a podcast maybe for another day, is where we're starting to see fraud. You know, where it's not just in income anymore. It's not just in people and, you know, offer letters. It's how they're applying. Room mates being added on and animals being removed and all of these breaking points. So, that's a whole very interesting thing, but we wanted to give the control to an outside resource and give the applicant and our employee the opportunity to see where they were in the process. But our end goal was really to let the applicant get themselves approved approved or denied. If that makes sense. It does make sense. Is it the same people that are managing your application process, managing the the screening process or are they different parts of you? Our onsite team members will discuss and launch the application initiative with the applicant after they've toured them or they had a conversation with them on the phone or communicated with them. However, that first piece occurs. And then, once that person selects the online method, selects the apartment they want, then they go into the application process. So, it's our job to inform and set the applicant up for success to succeed through the process of screening. And so, we let them know what that looks like. It's a major part of our sales process. Got it. Got it. And God knows where you obviously have a very different scenario from the others. But just from a kind of process perspective, where does, where does fraud fit into the applications, the overall applications process? It's amazing where fraud doesn't fit in. Because Marley talked about in this, maybe your next podcast, which is what type of fraud is there? And it's just amazing what's coming out. You know, the person walking on site is that person, you know, real. I mean, the person might be real, but is there ID real? Is it fake ID? Is the ID real? But it's a fake person. It's attached to that ID. The one thing that, you know, I want to emphasize with everyone, and I know everyone agrees with this, is fraud can be more expensive than a vacant bed. And, you know, there's a lot of times where, you know, the head on the bed, mentality is costing you money. Because if that head is a fraudulent head, then you could go six, seven, eight months, depending on jurisdiction and process of collecting rent that gets reversed all the way back to zero. And we see, you know, I see $10,000 of bad debt coming off of somebody, and when we do an evaluation back, it was because the applicant was fraudulence, and we didn't catch it, because we didn't have a system in place. And so what we're trying to do with Graystar is, is look at how do we provide our clients with recommended systems to capture fraud at every different place. And truly, I think there is between four and five different places where you can capture fraud. And this comes down to cost benefit analysis as well, because each of these tools cost money. And so very similar to Marley, and I think Christie has done this as well, we're implementing, or we have implemented, and we've had this for years, an automated system where we're giving the applicants the opportunity to get themselves from an application to an approved signing of a lease. And it's really their responsibility to get it from A to B. The system itself is automated to provide for it. Go ahead. Christie, just finally on the technology from, what have you learned over this extensive couple of years of learnings? You know, I think, you know, Gardner kind of said it really nicely, which is one, fraud is becoming more sophisticated, right? The more technology to consumers and the AI solutions that are available. The actual sophistication level of fraud is becoming more difficult to identify. And so I say, right, the partnership that you had in through your leveraging to help you identify that fraud is really critical, that they are also advancing in their technology efforts. And you start to see some evolution that's happening there, because what's fraud looked like three years ago? It looks very different today. And so, you know, I think that for me is the critical, you know, consolidation. I think there also has to be a real ease of a plug-and-play solution into what is your existing ecosystem, right? If it makes it difficult to use, then it's going to be difficult to identify, you know, where the fraud is, and people just will override the solution, whether it's at the centralized level or an on-sleep level. I think it just has to play nicely with your systems that exist. And when you're talking about integration, are you thinking mostly integration into the rest of your application process? Yes, I am. Okay. And I guess from your reaction, there's some variability in how well some of these things work, right? Yes, for sure. Yeah. I mean, and that's why, you know, when I think about the team of folks that I have today that are supporting, you know, let's call it 275 communities that are centralized, that are going through the centralized application process, I've got let's call it 25 folks that are supporting that effort. You know, there's a continuation of like how do you continue to refine and remove people like Marley said from the underwriting process. I don't really want people involved in that workflow, but because of the necessity or the, you know, the lack of potential integration or the friction that happens in that process, I still need people that are very, you know, in tune into where there's potential pitfalls in that approvals process today. So that's the refinement process that will be focused in on over the course of 2026 is all right, I still I don't I don't want, you know, as many folks that have to be as involved in that approvals process, I want to get it to a more automated stance, but, you know, I think we were talking at one point saying, you know, there's this volume of applications, ideally, most of those are going to go through this automation, come out with a recommendation, and no human needs to touch them. And then there's this percentage where they're, you know, have special circumstances or different requirements that need some sort of intervention. And it seems like that pool is growing larger, not getting smaller. And so that's where the people part is still so necessary for us today. And Marley, finally, it sounds like you've probably refined your tech approach more recently than the others. Tell us what the what the drivers were and what you've generally learned from that. Organizational readiness is absolutely key, culturally, technologically, and your workforce have to be ready for this. And it's really up to us on our side to get our team is ready for it. We can't just as operators in the positions that we are, I think this is a great idea and trying to deploy it the next day, but being ready across the organization, I think, is important. And you know, ready, I think, is a is a is a is a bit of a moving target. Like, where are you in that process? And, and you can sort of jump in at any moment, but you have to understand that, you know, all the areas of your organization, all the processes that are going to change right down to, you know, even how you're looking at hiring people differently now to manage systems that we have in order to run apartments, which is different than it was three to five years ago. So really, for me, it's it's really refining our readiness and continuing to document and, well, and share knowledge with individuals throughout different layers of our organization or the different of our organization to really understand where we are and why we're doing what we're doing. And I think for us, that's, that's a big part of it. As being as being the size company that we are, but going forward, I totally agree with both Kristian Gardner said it's, it's it's going to this is going to take constant refining. I think so too. Well guys, look, I thank you. I know we ran a bit over time, but thank you very much. This has been a great conversation. Thanks for listening to this episode of Tech Talk with 20 for 20. This was the last in our series of conversations offering a deep dive into forward prevention in multi-family. To hear any of the other conversations, you will find them wherever you found this podcast. 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