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It has been too long without those engine sounds and our theme tune plan.
But bring back V10 Series 4 is finally here.
We've got all kinds of subjects to get stuck into over the next three months from the V10
era of F1.
And we'll even be treating you to a brief detour into the V8 era that followed with one
special episode later in the series.
I'm your host, Glenn Freeman, and as always, we'll be finishing the series with a couple
of episodes where we take your questions on anything to do with F1 from 1989 to 2005.
You can submit your questions as always by using the hashtag #bringbackv10s on Twitter
by leaving us a five-star podcast review if you think we deserve it, and there are now
two new ways you can get in touch with us as well.
Bring back V10s must really have made it now because we've got our own email address.
So feel free to get in touch by writing to bring back V10s at therace.com.
And as Ed Straw always says, "I have on the race F1 podcast.
Don't forget the hyphen in the race."
We'll also be taking questions from the race's new members club, which you can find out
more about by heading to therace.com/membersclub.
Among the many perks and benefits you can get access to by becoming a member, you will also
get early access to add free versions of new bring back V10s episodes.
And your own dedicated episode will be take questions exclusively from our members.
So check out therace.com/membersclub to find out much more about that.
But now let's get on with series four, and we're kicking things off by revisiting the
rookie season of Fernando Alonzo, who made his debut in F1 with Plucky Mino Minardi.
Joining me for this look back at Alonzo's back of the grid heroics, Mark Hughes and
Ed Straw, Mark, welcome to another series.
You were covering F1 in 2001, so you can have the first go at the opening question.
When you think back to Fernando Alonzo as an F1 rookie, what's the first thing that
comes to mind?
Hello, nice to be back for the new series.
At Imola, it'd been absolutely spell-burning to watch in qualifying.
I think that was round three that year.
And he was bullying this little back marker car round with such confidence and abandon.
This was in the days of qualifying where you had an hour and you could go out whenever
you wanted and he was just getting more outrageously high-wire with it every time through.
And as incidentally in the same session was Kimi Reichen in the Sabah also in his third
race.
Fernando eventually dropped it around where Sonota went off this year, but it'd been
such a thrill to watch the pair of these two new boys who you just knew already were going
to be central to the sport in the coming years.
And I later bumped into Minardi's designer Gustav Brunner and we talked about Alonzo and
he said, "I know how much horsepower the car has, I know how much downforce it has, I
know what its drag numbers are, but I have no idea how he did that lap time."
It was only 18th place, but it should have been faster than the other Minardi, you know,
a long way behind the others, but it somehow managed to scratch it round ahead of five
other cars.
And this will find out over the course of the next hour or so, Alonzo made a habit of
that whenever the car was remotely close to the other's at the back of the field.
Ed, welcome back for another series.
The listeners will be hearing plenty from both of you over the course of the next 12
weeks because Mark has great insight and we can't seem to get rid of Ed, but Ed, you
love an F1 back marker, so what obscure reference is at the forefront of your mind when you think
of today's subject?
To be honest, I'm just relieved that he finally got around to a Minardi-focused episode
with four seasons in to bring about V10s, I'm wondering when the driver that I ranked
number one of Minardi drivers in a piece I did for the race last year, Piano Eugen Martini
is going to get an episode.
Alonzo is only ranked number three, so the only way is up in terms of Minardi episodes.
But yeah, I just, I like the Minardi team of this era because it was, it was always a
Minno, but it was ever more inachronistic this plucky little team that was conducting
miracles considering what it was up against.
So I think this is a period of Minardi's history that needs to be celebrated a little more
and obviously central to that is Alonzo.
You're right, it's taken us far too long to do a Minardi episode, who is number two in
that listing?
Who else was ahead of Alonzo?
That's a good question.
It might have been Luca Badoa, a Minardi veteran should have had that fourth place at
the Nürburgring, a very, very good driver, often, often maligned because of that two-raised
stint with Ferrari as a standard in 2009, but proper driver in his own right.
The best thing about that is that Ed can't remember who is number two in his own list, but
let's get on with 2001.
Because in early 2001, Minardi's immediate future in F1 was in serious doubt, and the team
didn't have an engine deal by January.
Alonzo wasn't confirmed at this stage, but was expected to drive for the team, but in
January, its priority was finding a buyer.
Team Boss Giancarlo Minardi said we're doing everything in our power to come to a solution
because time is money and grand predates don't move.
That was pre-pandemic, of course.
Alonzo said he was waiting on news from Minardi, adding to be ready in time for the first
race, work on the car has to start very soon.
At this point, it was expected that Alonzo's links with Flavio Breatori could facilitate
some sort of buy-in from Mechakrom and therefore a supply of the Renault-based SuperTech engines,
which Breatori was in control of.
Mark, we've already talked in that intro about how ridiculous Minardi's existence was
at times.
I think it was underestimated sometimes just how close to the brink this team came on
so many occasions.
Oh, absolutely.
It was perilous.
The team had been changing on as like fresh laundry for years.
Giancarlo Minardi, who you mentioned, was still very much part of it, but he no longer
owned the team.
Gabrielle Rumi had taken it over a few years before with Minardi as a sort of figurehead
in helping him run it, but Rumi at this time, we didn't know it, but Rumi had terminal
cancer, which he knew, he'd originally sold the team to Gastemizacana sponsors, yes,
the year before, but that hadn't finalised and they didn't wish to continue.
So Rumi was involved all over again in trying to find another new owner and maybe Giancarlo
Minardi had his own preferences for who the new buyers were for whatever reason.
They didn't come through, it was Paul who pulled off the deal.
But yeah, they'd been operating on borrowed time for a while.
It was absolutely on its last legs.
It was becoming harder generally for Italian companies, would-be sponsors to justify their
activities as the tax authorities began to get more involved at that time.
And the whole swath of Italian drivers and sponsors we saw in the '80s and '90s began
to dry up.
And it's something Minardi had been struggling with for a while.
They'd been using the contribution from paid drivers just to keep it float.
And Rumi had been putting his own money in, which he no longer wanted to do, as he wished
to leave his family with a healthy inheritance.
So this was all going on in the background behind the headlines.
And Briatore was the player behind the scenes here with his management of Alonso and his
mecha chrome links, and also the team principal at Bennett and all Renault as it became.
And he was trying to get corporate money from Renault to facilitate it, but they probably
balked at the idea of the extra expense complication.
But Briatore really wanted to blood Alonso in.
He got this fantastic new prospect of a driver, but who had very little experience.
He'd done only a single season of Formula 3,000 and not with a top team.
He saw him as the Renault team's future, but not yet.
So a season with a backmarker team was ideal.
So he was very much involved behind the scenes and trying to make the study deal happen
once the mecha chrome part of it had fallen through.
Yeah, that Renault interested, called by the middle of January, and it was only days later
that Paul Stoddard emerged as a leading runner to save the team.
Stoddard had been running the European racing team in every thousand at this stage, and
he bought most of the Tyrel F1 equipment when that closed at the end of 1998, but Paul
missed out on buying the team itself to British-American Tobacco. Stoddard told Sport
around this time, "We are looking at it and it's fair to say we are the team's only chance."
The following week, when he flew to Italy for talks, he told Motorsport News,
"We're in the final stages of negotiations and I'm very hopeful. I missed out on buying Tyrell,
but I hope I won't miss out this time." But Minardi seemed to get a bit twitchy about Stoddard
being so chatty with the media before the deal was done. And the team put out a statement in the
final week of January saying that while negotiations were underway, any story suggesting a deal
were done were completely inaccurate. That prompted Stoddard to admit that he'd hope to have it
announced by then, but last minute negotiations were still going on, although he didn't expect
any hiccups. The mark you were in the F1 paddock throughout Paul Stoddard's time in F1 was this a
taster of what F1 could expect when Stoddard came in because he was a man never shy about sharing
his thoughts in public, particularly with the media. Very much so, yeah. He always told it exactly
as he saw it. He was a mate, he Australia, no bullshit kind of guy, but a very shrewd operator
as well. There wasn't much politics or diplomacy about Paul. He was just very genuine, very enthusiastic
and wanted to give it a go. Lots of people come into the sport wanting to do that, but very few of them
survive shark-infested waters of F1. But he was very resourceful, very aware, but always very
down-to-earth. It was easy to imagine them with dirty hands getting stuck in, sorting out a car.
I'm not sure how often that actually happened, but he was, is that sort of guy? You wouldn't imagine
such a thing of celebratory. No, I think they were cut from different cloth, but the deal for Stoddard
to take over was made official on the 30th of January with Giancarlo Menardi staying on as a director.
Menardi said a lot of people did their best to kill off the team and he said he'd knocked on a lot
of doors but found them closed. He confirmed that he did feel the rumors of Stoddard buying the team
did more harm than good, but he said the main thing was that Menardi was still alive and kicking
in time for the new season. The team would stay at its finest base where what is now Alpha Tauri
still runs from, but in 2001 it would have support from Stoddard's European aviation facilities
in the UK with members of his F3,000 team joining the workforce to help get the cars ready for
the start of the season. The team would call its 2001 car the PS01 and a deal was done to keep the
old Cosworth engines Menardi used in 2000 which were now three years old. Stoddard said his short-term
goals were stability and to not finish last in the championship and then for Menardi to work its way
into the midfield over the next five years. He did accept that given the nature of F1 setting long-term
targets can result in what he called people making promises they can't keep. So Ed if we look at those
ambitions for the future of Menardi from 2001 without the benefit of hindsight because we know Menardi
spent its five years under Stoddard at the back and fighting to survive. Were those targets realistic
by then in 2001 with the direction F1 itself was heading in? Well they were realistic provided Stoddard
could get some healthy sponsorship money and then probably a manufacturer to pull that off. So those
are two pretty enormous preconditions and obviously they never came to pass. This is a Formula 1 very much
building to a manufacturer peak and explosion of costs so even achieving those preconditions
for a chance of the kind of success Stoddard talked about as a really big ass didn't happen so
that led to Stoddard becoming kind of a very loud voice for cost control to ensure the sustainability
of Formula 1. That was kind of whether existential debate about the future of Formula 1 started to
begin in the beginning of the century and it rages to this day but Stoddard was trying to do things
the right way. They were upping the amount of in-house work they were doing through that season so
there were some building blocks being put in but as always it comes down to money. I think a
poor Stoddard led Formula 1 team with those resources could have had enormous potential but
those resources never appeared the manufacturer never appeared. Alonzo was announced as a Minardi
driver in early February with Flavio Breatori somewhat cautiously declaring if Minardi races this
season then he's racing for them. Alonzo was pragmatic when speaking to the Spanish media he said
"I know that it will be very difficult to achieve anything notable this season. I hope people
have patience with me because I'll be starting from the back of the grid. That doesn't bother me though
I'm not going to get worried about results." Stoddard said in an interview with Reuters
"I've watched Alonzo very closely in Formula 3000 and he is special. It's a one-year deal.
Obviously we would like to get him for longer than that. He's going to surprise quite a few people."
Stoddard has since revealed that when Alonzo first walked through the doors in Fianza he promised
he could score points for the team. Now Mark you gave a little background to Alonzo's pre-F1 career
earlier and the fact that he only had that one season in F3000 but coming off the back of that
having won a race how high was his stock when he arrived in F1?
To the world at large you still quite a lot profile but within the industry if you like
there was already a bit of a building legend around him. He's got a buzz about him
he stepped into an alpha touring car and blown away all the big name drivers. There was a buzz
about him. He was beginning to show the rest of the racing world why. He done this one season
of 3000 being totally dominant at Spa with a fantastic performance but it was all very new it
it comes straight from Formula Open Nissan which he dominated but that was his first season of car
racing. The F3000 season was only his second season out of cars. The minority F1 driver was only
his third. It's worth remembering as well that people didn't really look to Spain for rising
four wheel drivers in the wider world. That's perhaps a slightly British outlook but that's I
think another of the reasons why he wasn't on the radar certainly in the English language press
because you look for your two wheel stars of the future but not your four wheeled ones. Alonzo
really was the the start of that in the modern era. The caution from Britoire in Alonzo
seemed pretty well placed as February rumbled on. Stoddard openly admitted minority was in a race
against time to get two cars ready for the Australian Grand Prix but it was also clear the team was
hunting for sponsors. Stoddard said we have a modest budget for this year and I have no fears
about funding. We are 75% complete on a budget for the year but we are still looking for a title
sponsor. If we don't get enough sponsorship I will have to fund it as painful as that might be.
Minority wouldn't have a spare car to take to Australia and Stoddard said they might even restrict
running in practice due to reduce the risk of an accident. Driver-wise Pedro De La Rosa turned
down the charts to create an all-spanished lineup with Alonzo thanking Minority for the interest
but saying I'm not sure if it's the most interesting offer at the moment and I'm not going to
take the first thing that comes my way. Stoddard was asked if he was looking for a pay driver
and he said money isn't necessary even in F1 but it would be wrong if I just made money the only
motivator. We haven't come this far to waste it all by putting someone in who can't really drive.
Gianni Morbidelli and Christian Albers were strongly linked to the seat and Stoddard even
entertained speculation about Gianni Herbert basically saying if he picked up the phone he could
have the drive but in the end Taso Marquez got the seat alongside Alonzo. Stoddard said Marquez
fulfills our requirement to have a pair of young drivers preferably one with F1 experience
with the added benefit that he has driven for Minority in the past. To Ed, given some of the
other names that were being linked to that seat was Marquez an underwhelming choice for Alonzo's
teammate. Yes, fair to say nobody was clamoring for Marquez to get another go in F1. He was an
unexpected choice even blindsided Marquez himself. He was quite close to a cart deal for 2001
then got a completely unexpected phone call. He even got a modest paycheck for his services which
oddly meant that actually there was a little bit of money connected to Alonzo but there wasn't
for Marquez. He was very much there to be the second driver and offer a little bit of experienced
help to Alonzo. Often he was in a car that wasn't the same specification. He said when I
spoke to him a few years ago about it that it was 30 kilos overweight his car at times and he
was a handy enough driver. Good enough to win an F3,000 race but obviously not even close to a
Rookie Alonzo's level even if all things have been equal. The year really was about Alonzo
and Marquez was the the hired help you might say and the 24th best driver in Menardi history. I've
checked my list just in case I had forgotten my ranking again. It was very much a kind of
plug-in option that did a job and I think it also served Stodart's desire to kind of try and
explore the South American market because he quite liked the idea of some Brazilian or
South American, just Argentinian money for example coming in. That didn't really work but I think
there weren't many drivers who wanted a Menardi seat as Petr de la Rosa proved so they went for
Marquez who was a functional option. I look forward to hearing a few more mentions of that Menardi
list every time we mentioned another driver who's been in the team at some point but while Alonzo
was waiting for the Menardi's to be ready so he could shake them down. He drove for Stodart's
European team in a 3,000 test set in the fastest time in the morning at Imola and in third quickest
in the afternoon. Stodart revealed in an interview with Motorsport magazine recently that he and Alonzo
helped build the Menardi cars in pre-season such as the pressure to get them ready for Australia.
He said it was a good gesture from Alonzo to get to know his team but he also said Alonzo realized
that if the car didn't get to Melbourne he wouldn't have anything to drive. Alonzo
and Marquez shook down their new car on February 22nd and six days later Menardi held a launch in
Australia where Stodart proudly declared they were the first team to arrive on site for the
first Grand Prix of the year. Stodart said for us the race was to get the cars manufactured in
six weeks and three days and get them to Melbourne and he's since
said that when he took over in January, all Minardi had was a wooden model of its 2001
design. At the launch, he added, "I've been to hell and back again. I personally was
working 20 hours one day and 18 the next. Even if just one of the cars finishes the race
on Sunday, then for us, it will be like winning the world championship."
And Mark, we know that Stolart was good at talking up his own achievements and his team's
achievements. He could be an excellent salesman at times. But was it genuinely impressive
that Minardi had gone from almost not existing at the end of January to, by early March,
touching down in Australia with two cars ready to go?
It was very impressive. But he studied, put it in a lot of preparation even before the
sale had gone through. Plus, as you mentioned, he already had his own race team, which he
effectively merged in a Minardi once the deal was done. So there were two engineering
bases. So he wasn't starting from scratch and probably with a bit of help from Renault
the at-end stand. So a lot of the work was done on faith in the expectation of getting
the deal across the line. But yes, it involved an incredibly intense effort from a core of
very committed workforce. He also had his own line to freight everything, of course. And
you would even pilot the 747 himself, although I doubt he did so on this occasion because
he would be in two knackered.
Yeah, that's an 18 or 20 hour day in itself, isn't it? Just getting there, scary thought.
But Alonzo made an instant impression in Australia. He was 17 from Friday, ahead of a jaguar,
a prost and arrows and even gents and buttons, Benaton. Minardi's running was hurt by an ongoing
engine problem, which Stoddart said couldn't be fixed for another few races. But he added,
we can't stop them blowing up. But we've got more to put in if they do. I think we've surprised
a few people with how many we've got here. We'll have fresh engines for the race. I guess
when you're engines are three years old, nobody else is exactly trying to fight you to get
them off of Cosworth. But Alonzo qualified 19th ahead of Mazakani's Prost, Bertie's Jaguar,
and of course, Marquez, who was outside 107% but allowed to start. Alonzo lasted a distance
in the race, coming home 12th. Stoddart said there are not words to describe this feeling.
Fernando showed what he is capable of. And after his performance, people have stopped
asking about the surprise I was promising from him. He has a fantastic career ahead of
him. When he got that bit right, Mark, under the circumstances, how good was Alonzo's
debut weekend? It got a little bit lost, I think, in the
whole drama of Manardi getting there at all and getting to the finish. But Alonzo was
faultless. The car actually turned out to be quite well balanced, actually, even though
it had no grip and no power. But it allowed him to hustle it between the walls, which is
what he's so good at. He'll just sort of bully a car and incorporate. And it's quite
an intimidating place, because it's high speed. Quite a lot of it's high speed, but with very
solid things to hit. But, yeah, Alonzo didn't look like a rookie that weekend. He looked
like someone totally on top of the car, operating well within his bandwidth. It was clean
and fast. There was no, oh my God, moment of revelation. But of all the drivers on the
grid that weekend, he probably did one of the best jobs under the circumstances.
I suppose his debut might have also got lost a little bit behind the fast about Kimi
Ryke and then one Pablo Montoya, who were also part of the rookie crop that year. And
we've done episodes on both of them already. I can't promise we're going to do an Enrique
Bernaldi's 2001 episode at any point. But moving on to the second race of the season,
Alonzo was outqualified by Marquez next time out in Malaysia, because he was jumping between
the spare car and his race car and qualifying. But he did beat him in the race. In Brazil,
he qualified 19th ahead of buttons, Benaton and Mazacani's Prost again. And he said it
without traffic, he'd have outqualified Giancarly Fisicela's Benaton as well. Imola, as Mark
mentioned earlier, he did outqualify both Benatons to line up 18th and he crashed out early,
saying a break problems. He was 18th on the grid again at the Spanish Grand Prix. This
time ahead of both Benatons and Delarosa, who turned out being his teammate and had now
returned to F1 with Jaguar. Alonzo finished his home race 13th beating both Benatons and
he said, "The lap times I was able to put in surprised all of us. For the first time,
we were not so far from our rivals and even if they overtook me, they didn't pull away
quickly." Stodart said he was overjoyed with the performance, calling Alonzo, outstanding.
Now Ed, I'm sure in the future we will talk in more detail about how bad that 2001
Benaton was at this stage of the year. But even so, did a rookie in an undeveloped Minardi
have any business getting ahead of Fitticela and button like this on as many occasions as
Alonzo did in this part of the year?
Yeah, not really. It certainly reflects what a tenacious job Minardi was doing and how
good Alonzo was right from the start, dragging that performance out of the car. Benaton in
fairness was always likely to be vulnerable at this stage of the season. It was very much
in transition into becoming the Renault works team. Renault, of course, did own the team
at this stage and it wasn't fully renamed until the following year, but it was Renault.
They pushed through all sorts of things. The wide angle V10 engine had a big impact on
the car concept, there were reliability problems, desperately underpowered at the start of the
year. So it was very much, will take some pain early on and they said early in the season
judges at the end of it. So they started off three or four percent of the pace and ended
it 1.3 to 2 percent of the pace in the last few races and on a positive trajectory towards
winning. So actually, when you boil it down, Benaton was always likely to start off being
one of the teams that was vulnerable, especially with Jensen Button, having moved from Williams
struggling so much in in qualifying compared to his team at physicala. But that said, there
was still not really any excuse for a team like Menardi with a driver like Alonzo to be
doing so well. So I look at it as you had a team and a driver getting 100 percent out
of their limited potential and probably a team at Einstein that was a little bit all
at sea and still trying to force things through and do stuff quicker than it could do short
term pain, long term game, which they did do. So actually, it kind of adds up that would
be a vulnerable team. Alonzo also found his voice during this weekend, complaining that
none of the other drivers respected Menardi in qualifying. He said it's difficult to do
a clear lap because we can't overtake anybody. You see a Menardi in the mirror, you try to
push a little bit more so you can have a clear lap without a Menardi in front. I hope
that people have a little more respect for us in the next races. His complaints didn't
get much sympathy from Eddie Irvine, who said they are so slow, they might as well not
be here. I can understand their frustration, but that's Menardi's job. It's up to them
to raise their game. Ed, we know now the kind of for-right personality Alonzo can be,
but was this bold from a newcomer at the back of the grid to be willing to speak out effectively
against the entire field? Perhaps the first sign that we saw of the kind of man Alonzo
would be out of the car as well. It shows he never lacked for confidence
even after that first qualifying session of Australia who's talking about how good
the lap was and that he could have been a few places high without some external factors.
Well, it was certainly a roar, Alonzo. All those characteristics we associate within
the fourth-rightness that confidence, supreme self-belief, all there. He did know how good
he was. Some rookies, even very good ones, come into Formula One and, while publicly
they'll be confident, I think there are doubts. I don't think Alonzo ever had a moment
of doubts even as a 19-year-old. Justifiably so. They were hints of him being willing
to be very forthright with a team at that stage as well. It's absolutely the prototype
of the Alonzo that we've come to know so well over the past two decades. He did arrive
in Formula One, close to fully formed as a driver and a person obviously evolved a lot,
but there's a straight line from 2001 Alonzo to 2021 Alonzo. If you looked, it was all
at all those ingredients for better or worse. Mark, did you have many interactions with Fernando
in that first season? Did you get a glimpse into what sort of personality he was or did
he just seem like a kid because he was incredibly young still, wasn't he?
It was young and yeah, we did get the talk a few times. He was on the surface quite shy,
which I think he still is, actually, even though he has this reputation for speaking
his mind, which he does. There is a surface shyness there, and that was more apparent
then, as he was very young and raw, but the underlying confidence behind that was never
in any doubt. He carried himself in a way that it was pretty obvious he understood how
good he was. He didn't strike you as a difficult character, but you can imagine him getting
exactly what he wanted behind the scenes, yeah.
Yeah, I think that's played out over the last two decades, hasn't it? In early May, Minardi
lost its designer, Gustav Brunner, to Toyota. If you want to hear all about how badly
Stodart took that news, check out our Toyota 2001 episode where we covered it in great detail.
Next time out in Austria, Alonzo was 18th again on the grid. This time out qualifying both
Benatons and Jean-Alacy's Prost, and he quite proudly said, "We are again ahead of other
cars with more potential than us." By the end of May, Stodart said Minardi was running
ahead of our plan, and some of that heart is due to hard work, and some of it is by the
driving of Alonzo. He said that was helping with his discussions over an engine deal for
2002, which he felt would help Minardi become a midfield team. He also said, "I see no reason
to slip backwards, but that's what happened over the next few races." As after another
star qualifying performance to be 18th on the grid in Monaco, Alonzo found himself struggling
to get off the back row through the summer. By the time of the French Grand Prix, Alonzo
said Minardi had lost something compared with the other teams.
because it wasn't doing any testing and it hadn't brought in any new parts yet.
He pointed out that the old engines were down on power,
but he felt Minardi could find more time in the chassis.
Mark, we've laid out quite clearly how under-resourced and under-prepared Minardi was for this season.
So was it inevitable that at some point Minardi would start to struggle as the year went on?
At this point, there was an upgrade coming for Hungary,
but while they were waiting for that, it was always going to get more painful, wasn't it?
Yes, of course. I mean, this test was a place-holding year, a survival year,
and you can sense in those comments from Alonso, the little bit of friction beginning to develop
between Paul's cutting his cloth accordingly to Alonso's ambition, but there was nowhere the team
was going to keep up with the development progress of teams like Bennett, and even Prost,
which was at the time struggling financially, but had its basic core around a team that had enjoyed
good investment in the past, so it had much better facilities. So yes, it was inevitable.
They were going to start off quite far off the pace and fall further behind the pace,
as the year went on. In July, Stodart told the independent he couldn't fund the team in 2002,
so Minardi needed to find a major sponsor. And it was at this point that rumours of Alex Jung
coming in with Malaysian backing first appeared. Stodart said, "Marquez was on a race-by-race deal,
and that because he wasn't bringing any money, if the right driver comes along, we will try him out."
He added, "We are in there competing with arrows, Bennett, on and Prost.
It's been heartening the way people up and down the pit lane have shown us the utmost respect
and congratulated us. If we get a point, it will be like winning, and it will have been worth what I've
spent." Those are great ambitions, and it was fantastic that Minardi could upset some of these
other teams, but is it fair to say that without Alonzo in one of the cars, Minardi wouldn't have
been upsetting anyone in the early part of the year in a way that they did?
Yeah, sure, to finding another superstar in waiting from somewhere, then
no, you weren't going to be doing it with Gianni Morbidali, decent drivers, he was.
You might not even have done it if they brought back Gabrielle Tarkini, but we'll never know that.
I would say Alonzo's skill set and position in his career was uniquely suited to doing well at
Minardi, lots to prove, determined to show how good he was, so he was always motivated to haul
an uncompetitive car to greater heights, and he knew that there was that pathway potentially
into a Renault team, so there was always a lot at stake for him, and he's always been a driver
capable of extracting a lap time regardless of the car characteristics and balance.
He's adaptable and reactive in a way that few drivers can make work. He's not a textbook
driver, and I mean that in a positive way, because lesser drivers wouldn't be able to make work
the way he does things. That's why he is so adaptable. So if you need somebody to haul a lap time
out of a car, regardless of its balance, of its development, direction, of where its performance,
strengths and weaknesses are, Alonzo is going to be right at the top of your list, and he still
was there. So yeah, short of finding some miracle driver elsewhere, that was exactly the driver
that Monardi needed. It's all sometimes it feels a bit George Russell in a Williams, doesn't it?
Yeah, and I think that's probably one of the reasons why Fernando Alonzo is so keen on George
Russell. Remember they did that helmet swap recently, and he called him a future world champion,
and Alonzo doesn't talk up people for no reason. He rates George Russell, and I imagine there's
a certain sense of a kinship there, particularly with how the Williams was early on in George Russell's
career when it was probably even less competitive in 2019 than the Monardi. So they are both members
of the possible future stars in the back of the grid car club. I like that club, and much like
with Russell at the moment, over the summer in 2001, Alonzo's future became a topic of speculation.
He was on a five-year contract under the control of Breatory, but there were rumours that Flavio
wanted to move him up the grid for 2002, possibly taking some Spanish sponsors to Prost,
which as we mentioned by this point was on the brink financially. Perhaps unsurprisingly,
those Prost links had come from reports in the French media, so maybe that was more out of hope
than expectation. Alonzo was pretty relaxed about his future, saying, "I know nothing about it,
it's still too early, but I'm optimistic. I think I'm doing a good job at Monardi." The results
are not spectacular, but people in Formula One know the value of what I'm doing. I'm not worried
about 2002. I'm more concerned about 2003 and 2004. I know at some point I will go to Renault,
and I'll have to find places where I can continue to learn to get there well prepared.
Now, spoiler alert for our audience, Mark, we know Alonzo would end up being Renault test driver
in 2002, but do you think there would have been any value in him moving up the grid to race
somewhere else that year instead? It wouldn't have hurt, but actually, I think the way it happened
gave Priatoria a better way of benchmarking where Alonzo was after his one year of experience,
so he could compare him directly to Trillian Button, and it was great for Alonzo as well,
to be able to do that too. I recall interviewing him in 2003, and he was saying that that direct
comparison to those two guys made him very confident. He was all but saying I was blowing them away,
so he was rare and a go out of the gates in 2003. The result of Alonzo getting into the Renault
was already mapped out. It was just a question of timing. Thanks to Priatoria being both his manager
and the team boss of Renault. It wasn't like some other drivers at that stage in their early careers
where the next move can be the defining one, but the choice is not theirs, and it's dependent upon
circumstances. In this case, he was really pretty much established as place was safe. Also, I think given what followed and the number of wrong turns in Alonzo's
career after 2006, I don't think we should really take issue with the pathway that led into
two world championships. Will that even keep that one? Minardi's new parts arrived for the Hungarian
Grand Prix as planned, and it was as significant in our upgrade to the gearbox and the aerodynamics
to be declared a B-spec car. Straight away, Alonzo was back into his previously customary
18th on the grid, although he retired from a race with brake problems. But after qualifying,
Stoddart was once again singing his praises. He said two drivers drove out standing laps in qualifying,
one was Michael Schumacher and the other Fernando Alonzo. The times they set in their respective cars
indicate both extracted the maximum possible from the machinery at their disposal. To say the team
is pleased would be a gross understatement. If you'd asked me at the beginning of the year
where I would have wanted to be at this point, I would never have dreamed of it being this good.
Mark, is that comparison to Schumacher at this stage over the top from Stoddart or was Fernando
already worthy of such comparisons? I don't think it was over the top at all. No, he was driving
an extraordinary level pretty much every time he got into the car. He was making people forget
just how far off the car actually was, and he was doing things whether the engineers wouldn't have
believed and he was just getting better. He was at a level I believe where if he'd made his debut in
a top team rather than a minority, he'd have been winning races and fighting for the title immediately,
just as Hamilton would let it do. One of my gigs at the time I was obliged to give points to each
driver for the performances after it's race, a bit like what Ed does now. And at the end of the
year some reader added up the scores, which is not something I'd done, and he'd found that I'd scored
a lot or second on it to Schumacher and how ridiculous that was. But I stand by it even today,
he absolutely was operating at that level pretty much from day one. Yeah, I'm sure you're not too sad
that you're not doing those ratings anymore. Ed gets to have all that fun and all the interaction.
And we do add it up for him on a more regular basis. So I think the feedback's a bit more regular
than it maybe was back then. I'll leave that away. But let's get into the real reason that we're here.
It's time to talk about that time. Nigel Mansl crashed into Fernando Alonzo. And yes, you did
hear that right. This was in the minority two-seater F1 race at Donington, where Mansl and Alonzo were
on track with Marquez, Alex Jung and Stoddart himself, and they were carrying passengers. Alonzo overtook
Mansl into the final chicane at the end of the race, but then his car slowed down, the Mansl drove
over the top of him. Everyone was okay. Fortunately, Mansl called it just one of those hiccups in motor racing,
saying it was unfortunate and regrettable, but also noting that he did overtake Fernando in the
air. Stoddart won the race, but he did say we'll not be doing that again. But Ed, this feels right
up your street. I'm sure you've analysed this crash in great detail. So let's hear your breakdown
of what happened. Yeah, it was gloriously unnecessary, but also brilliant. There was even a great
detail. If you check out the video you can find online. You can hear Murray Walker's doing circuit
commentary, and he misidentifies the other car involved as being driven by Alex Jung initially,
which just adds just that little bit of extra authenticity. Alonzo was well ahead through the corner.
This was very much an exhibition event, and he was probably creating a photo opportunity,
so he didn't get on the power as you normally expect, and he was kind of closer to the middle of
the track. All the cars were kind of together there, so I imagine they were probably
planning to get a nice shot. Mansl just got on the power relatively normal, and the collision
happened. I always thought his passenger, who was a businessman named Jonathan Frost, got a great
value out of that. He paid something like $55,000, an auction for that ride. He got a great story
to tell out of it. He probably had to pay double to get that kind of tail, but I'm pleased
Roger Mansl's turned up, because I feel like he's a proper bring back V10's staple, and as we
can't talk about whether Alonzo almost went to arrows with a Porsche engine or one of those things
that always comes up on. I'm pleased that you get this just weird incongruity of Mansl and Alonzo,
having a notionally racing act.
Yeah, it had to be included and Nigel's got his own dedicated episode coming up later in this series
I won't tell you which of his many
Colorful storylines were going for this time, but it's a good one
Alonzo's return to spa one year on from his every thousand victory was not a happy one
He had a massive crash in the warm-up, but after being passed fit to race
His gearbox failed early on and he was therefore unable to take the restart after the race was red flagged for Luciano
Bertie's massive crash with Eddie Irvine at Blanche Mont
Also that weekend rumours emerged that Alonzo could replace Jensen button at Renault for
2002 and Stodart said he was waiting for button to be confirmed as staying on so he could be sure Minardi would get a chance to keep Alonzo
But let's move on to a couple more stunning Alonzo performances to round out the year at the US Grand Prix
He qualified 17th and his big scout this time was none other than the B.A.R of Jacques Villeneuve
Which is an unfortunate first mention for Jacques in this series
Alonzo fell he could have been another place higher on the grid if he'd not had to take his spare car for his final run
And he said this result proves I am reaping the fruits of a season which is progressing in a way which is not only good for me
But also the whole team
So Ed how good was this performance and try not to dwell on the car that was behind him on the grid too much
Yeah, I was going to say I'm not sure as much value in that qualifying
Jacques Villeneuve ultimately ball B.A.R. We're having a horrible weekend
I think Villeneuve summary on Saturday was the car is sick and we can't cure it
But it was a good chance just put Alonzo's name up in lights again because he was ahead of a world champion
It was hugely impressive. There's footage online of this lap and even by the standards of the cars of the day
It's brilliantly committed. You can you can generally see how on top of a car a driver is by that entry phase and just the
The kind of unhesitating rotation in the entry phase just proper commitment and the car as well was pretty good
And that we talked about the the upgrades that they they brought and
They were pushing even at the end of the season there the titanium gearbox in the car that wasn't that reliable
But it was part of a rear end upgrade that's in rear suspension that was that was working well
Which I think was only on Alonzo's primary car there
But I think it shows again what team and driver together were able to Alonzo just grabbed it by the the scruff of a net of the neck
And as he often did that season he was able to pick off
People in potentially better machinery when they were underachieving just because he was getting close to the maximum and Alonzo was at it again
At a season finale in Japan qualifying 18th
But what was really impressive this time was that he finished 11th out of 16 cars
beat in Heinzhalde, France and in a frost, Olivier, Pannis in a B.A.R. and both arrows drivers
This time after qualifying he said getting any higher on the grid was impossible
And he said it was the best car setup he'd achieved all season
Which gave him a perfect balance and allowed him to achieve a hundred percent of what was possible
After the race it's no surprise to hear that he said I believe today
I've driven my best race of this first season in Formula 1
I pushed to the maximum from the very beginning of the race
I feel delighted that I was able to finish the year with such a fine race outcome
Studdard called the race a prelude of what is to come from us and he called Alonzo's drive gutsy and outstanding
So Mark, I'm effectively repeating my last question here, which is how good was this drive?
But all I'll add is how significant was it for Alonzo to achieve a result like this over a race distance in a minardi
Rather than just a one lap special when on qualifying day
Yeah, it was it this was back in the sprint year of racing where you could go flat out in between refueling stints
And you you absolutely had to and and when you looked at his times and how relentlessly was around that most demanding of tracks
Both from a driving point of view and physically it was a world-class performance
It was the sort of performance then and a top car would be winning them Grand Prix
It was as simple as that there were maybe only three or four drivers on the on the grid who could have done that sort of
Sustained level on demand. It's actually one of those things that you can't see in the same way this year
We mentioned George Russell earlier and people talk about him qualifying brilliantly on Saturday
But not sustaining on Sunday because today you're much more contained by the kind of controlled managed race pace
You can't do that whereas Alonzo
Perfectly seated doing that sort of thing, which is why that area is really strong from a
Showing which drivers really have that magic perspective
It was also a preview of the McLaren Honda years wasn't it where we got out the car pretty much every Sunday
And so I think that was my best driver for the season
But I think this one might have been a bit more genuine
But any hopes Stoddart had of keeping Alonzo for two thousand and two were quickly dashed
When after the season Renault announced he would be their test driver
However Stoddart has since admitted that Minardi knew Alonzo wasn't coming back before that final race in Japan
And in that interview of motorsport magazine that we mentioned earlier
Stoddart told a story about the Suzuki weekend
He said he'd agreed to let Alonzo do some glory runs with low fuel in practice as a way to sign off the year
But Alonzo's engineer overruled it after what Stoddart called a miscommunication
Alonzo was furious about this and confronted Stoddart about it who told him do your talking in the race and Paul says
What followed was 53 laps of pure qualifying I've never seen such a focused drive in all my life
And he added the bottom line is that every time Fernando drove the PSO one you got 110% out of it
Let's face it the car was a dog, but Fernando made it respectable
Is that a fair summary Ed?
Mathematically inaccurate I would say but it is metaphorically acceptable
We shouldn't underestimate the value to a team like Minardi of a driver like Alonzo
You've got somebody who is a top liner in the making and operating at a really high level
And if you think about it if you've had a more mediocre driver line up a driver line up
You'd say kind of worthy of that team's level think how the perspective the perception on that team and Paul Stoddart's credibility
Would have been because rather than talking about these exceptional performance
We just be saying well they're driving around at the back. What's the point?
So any chance of getting some sponsorship here nor attracting further good drivers in the future would have
Would have gone away. So I think Stoddart's absolutely right in in what he was able to to show through having Alonzo in the car
And through what Alonzo could drive out drag out of it
That's a Zucarace is just a good example
Most drivers can't live on that edge for a sustained period any driver in Formula One can do sort of one
Megalap that's
Your sort of drivers perfect lap is similar kind of level
But it's repeatability and consistency that is the real differentiator and Alonzo basically his whole Formula One career has lived on that limit in a way that
Very very few drivers in history have been able to now when the test driver deal was announced Flavio
Breatori said we have followed Fernando's performance very closely this season
He did an excellent job and we therefore decided it was important to integrate him quickly into the Renault F1 program
He is very young and has a great talent. We chose not to waste him by letting him drive for another team
It's important to save him to allow him time to prepare for 2003 in the right conditions
Alonzo said he was surprised to be going back to Renault so quickly that he added it's a good opportunity because between January and March
I will have driven a lot more than I did with Minardi in a whole of last season. The negative side is that I'll be missing out on the competition
I will obviously miss the racing, but this is an important part of my apprenticeship given that I'm only 20 not racing
Shouldn't really be a problem. I have already made the breakthrough to Formula One and the next step is to improve as a driver with a good car
So I can eventually fight for the world championship
And I suppose we should add for people who didn't follow F1 that closely during this time being a test driver back then was very different
Today Ed test drivers were out almost every week at this time of the year weren't they so Fernando didn't only get mileage from January to March
He was busy throughout the season. Yeah, there was a lot of work to be done
In fact, Paul Stoddott set up a testing for Minardi for the first time for that year
So not only do you have a lot of mileage you also have often your own test group to work with so
That's a very very different you're almost a competing race driver, but without the racing at that time whereas now basically test driver means you get to drive in two FP1 and spend a lot of time wearing a team shirt and that's about it
So hugely different times and of course you've got to do lots of Instagram Q&A's to earn your crust, but
We've already talked earlier about if Alonzo could have moved up the grid and raced for another midfield team in 2002
But let's finish on a final reflection on his 2001
Despite how how limited the car was mark how important was this first year racing with Minardi as part of Alonzo's wider development as an F1 driver
Obviously, we know the plan worked out because he was a race winner by 2003 in a world champion by 2005
But what role did the Minardi season play in his development? You think I just did just finished off
What was you know the talent and the way it was his driving was developing with that would have continued
Which whichever car you'd put him in but it just give him a nice set of circumstances and
Which the the pressure was off, but he could still showcase that at that ability and it just give him a good sort of
Preparation year for when it got serious, which is when he got into a property him and the Renault
So yeah, I think it was it could have played out any number of ways and he would have been fine
Given that Breitori was managing him, but I think the way the way
did it turned out to be perfect?
- I think it's also very important in terms of,
although he was on this trajectory to run-o.
If he tanked a minority, they might have thought again.
It gave him credibility, both among his opponents,
and with the team that he moved into,
it made sure that he was ready to do justice
to the 2003 run-o when he jumped into.
I've seen he got a win that year.
So without that, he wouldn't have had all that experience
of the race weekend.
So even doing it down the back and 17th place on a mega day,
just gives you that bank of experience and data
and made sure that there were no doubts within run-o
that Alonzo was the horse to back.
There was no need to hedge bets.
They had the data in the proof,
and then once he moved into the test season,
obviously they could experience that day to day.
So it just built that confidence behind him.
I think it's always possible for a driver
to derail themselves, should we say.
The expectations were there, but the minority year,
both sharpened him as a driver, built experience,
and proved that Breitori and Renault were absolutely
on the money to back this guy,
because backing a 19-year-old is a big ask,
and even a 21-22-year-old is a big ask,
but there's a straight line from that minority season
to the titles in 2005 and 2006.
- Yeah, I think we can pretty safely say
that Renault's preparation of Alonzo worked out
quite well over the years that followed,
and here we are 20 years later,
and he's back driving for what was then Renault,
and we now know as Alpine,
and in his third stint with the team, which is remarkable,
but the Alonzo Renault story is one for another time,
so that's it for this episode, thanks to Ed and for Mark,
for joining us to kick off series four.
Remember to get your questions in for our season finale,
using the hashtag #bringbackv10s,
or email #
[email protected],
or submit a question in a five-star podcast review
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I remember if you want to get early access
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check out the race.com/membersclub to find out more.
And if you sign up to the members club in time,
you'll get early access to our next episode,
where we'll be revisiting how Michael Schumacher
ended up signing for Ferrari,
and the huge impact that had on the F1 driver market for 1996.
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