S2E4: "Opening Day Just Days Away..."

Welcome. We're Jackie and Brian, and this is As the Ice Cream Churns. Together, we found an ample hills creamery, one of the most beloved ice cream brands of the last decade. Then, we lost it all. We filed for bankruptcy a day before New York City shut down to the COVID-19. Now, someone else owns ample hills and we're out of work. But, we're ready to start over. Come join us for an exploration of what went wrong, and more importantly, what comes next. Our guides are close friend Debbie Rosen. She created the cracked cookies in her hit flavor, salted cracked caramel. When she's not baking, she's a therapist. We thought she could help us navigate these troubled waters. Let's get started. Hey, Debson. Hey there. Debbie, how are you? I'm good. Okay. So last podcast ended and you were at the halfway point. Are you finished and ready to open? Well, we're very, very close. It is too bad, but we're going to miss National Ice Cream Day. That's Sunday, July 18th. That's what we were really shooting for. But, we're almost there. We're going to open. We're going to have a grand opening on the next Sunday, July 25th. And do a soft open, probably a couple of days before that on Friday, the 23rd. But we're really close. I mean, we ran into some delays. I know we talked about the walk in last time and how hard it was to get a walk in. Well, that got built in California. And it made it across the country. That was crazy. That left California on a Friday morning. And it arrived in our Brooklyn shop on Monday morning. And so these two guys drove through the night all night long from Friday to Monday and made it from California to Brooklyn. So that was great. We unloaded it. The installation of it has, you know, run into some snags. They've got to run lines up through the foundation of the building. It's like a foot thick of concrete. They have to drill. I mean, this gets into the weeds a little bit. But, you know, when you put walk-ins in the basement, which is of course where the walk-ins have to go, you know, like your air conditioner, you have to have it vent out the window, right? Because otherwise, you'd create a sauna in the basement, which wouldn't be good for anybody. And so that venting of the heat that the walk-ins create has to go up above the roof of the shop. So it's kind of the, those lines have to go up through two floors. It's a lot of drilling. That's been a challenge. Some other little delays here and there with getting some equipment in. But we're definitely painfully close to that opening day. And how are you both feeling during this time of lead-up to the opening? Well, I mean, mostly it's just a game of trying to not forget something. So, you know, it's kind of constant. Do you remember do this? Do you remember do that? And all of these little things. And I've been keeping a running list. I've been, you know, a lot more organized than I've ever been. But it, you know, things come up. And then you have to remember if you don't put them on your list, you forget them. So like I'll wake up, you know, like three in the morning, which is what happened last night. And I'm like, oh my god, I gotta write this down. I gotta go, I have to make sure that, you know, I, I deal with whatever it is. And there's, there was probably like five different things last night. Jackie's lists are all paper and pen and pieces of paper and minor out the little notes on the phone. So we were doing them differently. But I mean, you know, it's things like pest control and garbage dumpster pickup. I mean, I woke up two days ago and a panic because I realized I'd forgot to order the cardboard cartons that the ice cream goes in. I mean, you know, I need hundreds and hundreds of those every couple of weeks. Otherwise, there's no word about the ice cream. So I'd remembered the sugar and I'd remembered to order the milk and cream. And I'd forgotten these ice cream tops. Luckily, they're in Pennsylvania. And so they're going to be able to get them to us in time. What are some of the benefits of having the chance to start over and some of the negatives? I think the, the benefit really one of the biggest benefits is being able to create everything from scratch with this deep knowledge that we have gained over the years of having built, you know, so many shops, honestly. And, you know, so being really creative and, you know, building this thing from the ground up in a way that, you know, we know will, will, you know, work for the most part. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's almost like a blissful joy and the ignorance of being dumb and innocent when you start the first time around. And so that's a double-edged sword. I mean, it's both positive and negative because you know all the pitfalls, you know all the things that can sideline you and sidetrack you. And that's obviously a big positive. But because you know, the, you know, to look out for them, they create some anxiety and worries and, and fears as you go ahead, whereas when you start the first time, like we did 10, 11, 12 years ago, you know, you have no idea the world is your oyster and you just plunge in. I mean, I think the other big part for me just personally in terms of starting over, I'm older now. I'm like 51 and I gotta go back to work, like physical leader. But that's all right because I, you know, I'm on a diet. I'm gonna try to lose like 20 pounds this summer by like standing and carrying those bags of sugar. Yeah, when we first opened a shop though, you lost 25 pounds. I did. We were on Vanderbilt Avenue walking down those steps and bringing up those types of ice cream. But you know, wasn't that healthy? I just know. But that's what I'm looking for again this year. Yeah, but it just consume ice cream for like breakfast lunch and dinner. Well, now we're making donuts. So that might make it a little more challenging for that thing. But I mean, you know, the starting, you know, the real positive part is just that that energy of meeting people of getting, you know, in there, you know. Yeah, I mean, for sure. Yeah. I want to just shift over to finances for a bit and budget. I mean, I'm hearing about shortages, price tikes. And I'm just wondering in general, how is it going and also has that affected you? Yeah, I mean, the budget was tight when we began, you know, we're building at a 2700 square feet, which is, you know, twice as large as, you know, an average ice cream shop out there. It's huge because we've got that big party room and we got room to make the donuts and of course a big kitchen to make all the ice cream. So it's, it was challenging from the get-go on the budget that we had. But we're over budget by about four to five percent, which, you know, all things considering since there are these shortages and pandemic surge pricings that, you know, I feel pretty good about. I would have preferred to have been three to five percent under. But, you know, I mean, examples where the walkins that we had talked about before, the paper cardboard containers that I was just talking about, forgetting to order, you know, the guy was telling me that his whole business just is just making paper ice cream containers, if you can believe that. And their prices for paper have just gone through the roof in the last three to six months. And so, you know, those costs more than we had budgeted for, you know, just this morning, the contractor, when we went over to the shop, was complaining to me about, you know, going to Home Depot and buying plywood and the price of the plywood was just, you know, ridiculously expensive compared to the way it was just a few months ago. So, it's definitely been a challenge, but we're close enough to feel good about it. I mean, speaking of shortages, are you experiencing that with finding staff for the opening of the shop and what's that process than like for you? You know, I mean, I kept hearing about it and how, you know, nobody wants to work and, you know, it's really hard to find people to work right now and I did not, luckily, find that as that was not my experience. You know, I have interviewed a wide swap of people from, like, you know, 14-year-olds to, you know, 34-year-olds, you know, and upwards. And I think because, you know, it's about us starting something new and being involved in this kind of, you know, new mom-and-pop, you know, shop that, you know, people have the ability to help us, you know, set the tone in the vibe and um And I think that that's really appealing to people. I mean, I don't know, or maybe it's just come, you know, it's just the right timing and people are ready to work again or the pandemic is subsiding or a combination of both, but it's been great. I mean, you know, I've been interviewing a lot and you know, you know, I think, you know, it's just been great. - First orientation is planned for-- - Yeah, first orientation is the end of the week and it's exciting. - And I think you pay a decent wage. I read that on Instagram. (laughing) - What about the ice cream? Are you making it? Have you started making it in the shop or-- - I wish, you know, any day now, any day. We just, you know, a couple more construction elements. Probably three or four days from now, we'll flip the switch and start making it. I can't wait to get in there and play with all the new toys. You know, right now I'm working on turning the one-court test recipes into, you know, 20-court, 22-court recipes for the batch freezer and some of those have to be adjusted, you know, as you do that on the fly. You know, we've got our head baker, Jasmine, starting this coming week and on, I think, Friday and a few days from now, she's amazing. She ran the bakery at Amphol Hills in the factory. We had hired her and she has an actual, you know, bakery background unlike myself, you know, self-trained. So she can bake a better cookie and a better, you know, cake than I can for sure. So I'm so excited to have her part of the team. She'll oversee all the making of all that stuff, mix ends and then I'll be turning the ice cream. So we're super close and super excited to get going. - I read about your recent farm visit and I'm wondering if you tell me more about the experience. - Okay, so that experience was amazing. Number one, we haven't left the city in forever. So it was like, I felt like, you know, it was just a relief just to like, you know, breathe the clean, fresh air. - Kids love it too? - Well, you know, the kids were just cranky, I don't know. But, you know, it was just a, it was just a nice getaway and it was a short trip but it was beautiful. But I guess the part that was really cool was this farmer. So we're gonna be using Hudson Valley fresh milk and cream and Hudson Valley fresh, your Hudson Valley is an area that's only around two and a half hours from New York City. So it's super close, super local. And it's a conglomerate of various family owned farms and smaller farms and they, you know, pull together their milk and cream. They all have their own dairy cows. And so we went up there to meet with one of the farmers and see his farm and there's a number of them. And he was amazing. He was a fourth generation farmer and dairy farmer from the Hudson Valley, which, you know, I don't even think dairy farm, when I think of New York State, I know that there's dairy forms obviously, but it's just not in my consciousness necessarily. I guess just being from New York City, I'm so New York City centric, if you will, but it was, he was so caring and specific about everything he did. Like one of the things he said, which just really struck me, was just like, this is not rocket science, being a dairy farmer is not rocket science, but you do have to care. You do have to care. And he cared deeply, he knew every cow, he knew, you know, they were part of his family. And it's so true. It's like when you, when you know you're buying a product where people really, really care, it makes it richer, better products on so many levels. - Yeah, I mean, it was inspiring, and not the least of which is his work ethic, I mean, like any and probably all farmers and dairy farmers, anytime I start to think about complaining, about being 50 and having to go back to work and make ice cream, I kick myself and remember that he's getting up at three in the morning, three, 30 in the morning to go out and start, you know, the cows don't stop making milk on the weekends. I mean, this is a full time every day, all day long, every year job, and it is so amazing. And we wouldn't have an ice cream shop, but it wasn't for those cows. So it was important for us just to go up and sort of touch the ground and touch the cows and take some pictures of where the milk and cream are gonna come from, just 'cause I think it connected us to the experience as well. You're known for your collaborations, any that you can discuss? - Yeah, so I'm really, really excited because our neighbor is only two blocks away is the Brooklyn Museum, and I, we both love the museum and our kids to classes there and just very excited to create a special flavor with them, and we are going to partner with them and create a flavor that have the community create the actual flavor, that you know what it's made up of, and name it. And then we're gonna scoop it in the shop, and it'll be kind of our signature, you know, Brooklyn Museum flavor. So I'm excited about that. - Totally. - And how, overall, do you bring the concept of the shop's name, social to life? - Hmm, yeah, I mean, we are so excited to have the space, this large, glorious space that's going to allow us to have this space to host ice cream socials. We are leaning into our name. Our name is a nod to the ice cream socials of past that we're giving back to the community, that were meant to raise money and funds and care for people, which is what the social is all about. And every month, we're gonna host socials in the space. And I think in our previous lives, with our previous company, it was really important to us as well to create the sense of community, but here, we have this ability to have understood what we really need to do in order to make that a reality and to operationalize it, if you will, to create these monthly experiences. Last time, I think we mentioned the fact that we have our tables, which are gonna be late, unfortunately, but they will be there eventually, have game boards embedded in them. And so just the very experience of coming in to get ice cream, you'll have the opportunity to relate to other people by playing a game if you decide to and not sitting on your phone. There are multiple experiences that I'm excited about to host in this space too, because it's large enough to gather people together. - Yeah, I think that the part of goes back to one of the learnings, like you're saying, in terms of the old shop, was always built around the idea of the community, but it's almost like putting our money where our mouth is and designing this concept of that monthly ice cream social to find a vessel or vehicle with which to literally give back by using that social and partnerships with nonprofits to raise money for those people. And the key part of that that makes it fun from an ice cream point of view, 'cause ultimately people wouldn't come if there wasn't ice cream, is that we've got that beautiful wagon wheel hand cranked ice cream maker. It's like a giant five gallon wagon wheel and it's coming in the next week or so. And so we'll have the fans in the community design and create the flavors each month that will be only made that one singular day for that social and people will get samples of that flavor. And they'll participate in the act of detourning. - Right, but then we will have that flavor in the daily cabinet for the whole month that you guys will have to make. - Oh really? - Yes. - I forgot that part. - Yeah, you know, that's okay. And then the other thing that I'm really excited about, and I just have to mention this, 'cause I'm really excited about it, which we haven't, we haven't, probably not gonna start until September, October, but it's the magic hour. And the magic hour, you know, I'd always wanted to do this. We didn't necessarily always have the space or, you know, the ability to implement it. But this is where we will have hand cranked ice cream maker along with various ingredients like the mix for the ice cream and the ice cream. ice for the ice cream maker that makes it cold and a bunch of mixins and it kind of be like you come in with your pod and during this hour three days a week basically you'll be able to create your own flavor of ice cream. So while parties you'll be able to do that all the time and for the socials we'll be able to do that as a community, this you'll be able to do this with your smaller community or your pod or your family or your friends. So very excited about that. So that's another another thing I think that you know again it's just it speaks to the social aspect of the social. Well, I know you're going to be super busy in the next well forever but podcast wise I'm thinking maybe in a month or so we could check in and see how things are going. I mean if you insist I mean I was kind of hoping this was the last episode and we just leave it as a cliffhanger you know everybody just guess whether or not the shop worked all right fine. Everyone just comes in. All right, all right another month we'll get another go. Thank you Debbie. Thanks, Debbie. Well, I just want to say before we stop you know just to thank you guys for your honesty through this whole process. I know it wasn't easy and I just wish you tons of success going forward. Thank you. Thanks, Tim. All right, talk soon. Bye. Bye. Good to work.