S2-E8- What Judges Want- Emeline Rochefeuille

Speaker 1 Hello ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the final episode in season 2 of what judges want. And we are finishing with a banger, a grand season finale. We are speaking to Emmeline from Europe, living in Berlin. Let's get straight to it. Hey, Emmeline. How's it going? Speaker 2 Hey, Glenn, it's going Speaker 1 fabulous. Good. And you've just returned from an awesome trip. Are you allowed to talk about your trip on the podcast? Speaker 2 Yeah, of course, I'm allowed to talk about the trip has been like a month away and I was in Jersey Island like in the channels Islands to work with a ballet company. So we were creating them. 22-minute piece. Oh well and how did they find you was how do they know you guys the man? The social medias. So Instagram can be useful Speaker 1 sometimes. Yeah. And, and, what's so good about that is kind of west coast swing. Your creativity is getting seen and then it's getting into other worlds. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, like, for them we didn't really do west coast swing at all. It was more to help them bringing some partner work and connected partner work into their skills and see what we can do with them. How can they Inspire us to? Create and vice versa. Speaker 1 Okay, that's incredible. Cool. And there's more of that to come. I hope more work like that. Hopefully, Speaker 2 fingers crossed that is just the beginning of Speaker 1 something. Okay, cool. Okay, so I was speaking to you briefly about the podcast you're actually my first European apart from II did a podcast of my own podcast. I'm European I need to remember that you're my person. Yeah. Based in Europe still as it were so it's exciting for the U.s. to get to hear someone that still based in Europe. So, the goal of the podcast is to speak to you as a judge about what you look for. Because obviously, It's tricky to navigate this world with all this different feedback and I thought, let's go straight to the people and hear what you guys look for. So when you judge, do you split it into the divisions? Do you specifically think? Okay. I'm here on a floor judging intermediate leaders. This is what I'm looking for. Or do you go out? Out there with more of a blank slate. Speaker 2 So the second option I go out there with a blank State because I never know who I'm gonna face. So even if it's you know, like a novice or inter or any like Division, I feel like every time it always depends on the people that are competing and who are on the floor. So I have a database of criteria that I could use and I could watch. But then depending on like who are competing, I'm gonna do. Decide what to be prioritized? What to look for? What with me to select. Speaker 1 Yeah, and what's that? I mean you don't have to go through all four hundred things in the data bits of criteria but what some of the main things that that can make you think someone's doing great as opposed to not doing so great. Speaker 2 I feel like the overall question that I put in my mind is like, with that person handle the final. Uh-huh. It's like the first one. And also, with that person be a good partner for anyone with P bad person. Yes, no. And then, well, depending on What I'm watching. I mean like you know, when we talked about like timing technique and teamwork, I feel like those very broad term can be divided into so many sub division, but I would say in those, like timing for me, in a weird way outside of just dancing, on time, I would watch what the people are doing between the Beats. Mmm. So I like to see How they bodies are behaving between those transfers because I'm a big fan of flow. So flow is like something that I really like to watch. And I talk about the body as a machine. Uh-huh. I love when this machine is well-oiled. Yes. Bodyguards. A different machine. But does that much? It makes sense like those the electricity of let's say connection or traveling smoothly through the whole system. So, like this things that I look for, is difficult to explain, but it would take two hours or more. Speaker 1 Yes. And I would pay you for a private lesson. Like Benji asked Speaker 2 for Pusher Speaker 1 Pusher. Yeah, Speaker 2 I'll be just happy to talk about it, Speaker 1 you know. Yeah. No. That's, I like that wording Speaker 2 a lot. So like this is something that I watched I watched also. So when I say like is is it going to be a good partner for the other person? It's like the, the care and I call it like, the security index. Mmm, what is for someone else? So if I take a leader, for instance is like, is that leader able to put his follower on time? Instance, is that leader be able to Handle the consequences of the energy that he gave to the follower is that leader able to create a space for the conversation to happen. It will lead. And follow. For the followers is like, it's the same as like, he's a follower, not over dancing, the lead, but being able to speak within the framework of what is proposed, is a follower able to be like to just how do you say Wait for the movement to Speaker 1 happen. Hmm. Yeah, be Speaker 2 patient. So, be yeah, the patient's in the motion. What else? I mean I would just like, you know, send information here there because there is like so many things that I that I watch for. Yeah. And like Speaker 1 jump around, I found myself jumping around. Susan came with a list. She had this like that and I'm like this is the difference in two different budgets. Yeah. Speaker 2 I didn't plan anything, but then like I feel like the most, like, the most division gets hired the most was going to be important. For me is if the dancers are inspiring me because I like to be inspired myself. Like, even if I judge, I'm also like a crowd and observe and the hardest like the division is Is the more I know they capable of like ticking the boxes. A bit everywhere because they going to offer something that I haven't really seen before like even just like a certain musicality as a different way to express. Different roads in the connection I haven't seen before. Yeah, I guess I guess. I think I would like more precisely from your side for you to get more precise answers from me. Speaker 1 Say that last bit, one more time. Sorry, I just lost that last sentence. Speaker 2 I said like I would need like precise questions from you if you want precise answers. Yeah, Speaker 1 okay. So yeah, a lot actually, a lot of the questions we get we get about three things over and over again from the from the audience. And the first one is about straight legs and I think this is something that's come from a lot of feedback from other judges and it sounds so kind of basic some times where it's like, oh, your legs weren't straight enough. So that's something that I've kind of covered with different judges and I think I know the way your answer will go, but I'll be interested to hear like, do you go out on the floor or when you teach private lessons? Do you have a rule that the follower should walk forward 12 with straight legs or by the six? Should be on a straight leg. Speaker 2 No, I don't talk with rules. I don't like rules. I don't like should I like in what's happening with the body? So the person can get away. About what they're doing and then like take their own decision but just about straight legs and bent legs. So, as I say, I like to talk about the body, like a well-oiled machine and do feel, there's always a need for something that is engaged or toned and something that is relaxed. I'd like to work in Balance, so I like to be strong on the standing leg. So I like to see All being strong on the standing foot. Why the free foot is relaxed and vice versa as we actually doing when we walk in the street. So I Feel Like Dancing Is Not So Different. It's just that we exacerbate or how do you say insist on those Notions? So like we make them Speaker 1 very Speaker 2 saturated saturated. Yeah. And I don't find blend legs when it's for a purpose or when the person is aware of it. So when it's at, Voice. Hmm. And I feel like you I usually can defer in. See it when I watched someone dancing if it's doing it consciously or not? Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Yeah, and and then the next question that kind of a specific is about triple steps. A probably get told that by most students is so-and-so said I didn't triple enough or I triple too much. I'd love to know your view on triples and if you're watching a novice Jack, And Jill and you're judging it, would you even be counting the number of triples? Which, I mean, again, I think I know the answer, but I'm interested to Speaker 2 hear well like this is a big story. Speaker 1 Like Speaker 2 I do love Rhythm Rhythm. So like I would really pay attention to the Rhythm in the body and therefore, if Tripling is part of the rhythm of our dance. So, it's something especially in the Lord's division that I would pay attention because they start to just learn the structure of the dance. They don't have so much capacity to go outside of the structure that you've learned. So in the lowest division is something that I would sure be attention to, I wouldn't count, but that would just also pay attention if they're actually moving their feet. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Because as you just Ruiz or you start to, I don't know, maybe apply stylistic choices that you've just seen in classes or something like that, but you actually not able to move your feet and So in the lowest division? Yeah, I would definitely pay attention to it. In the highest division. I think then for me it's really starts to be conscious choices or not. So it's something that I would look Speaker 1 for. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 Really my judging though. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I wanted to go back to something. You said where you said as the divisions go up you want to be inspired and you want to see something slightly different. I think that's I think that's incredible to say because one thing you do in your dumb ones or I hear so much as from students. As I want, I want to learn this styling that Emmeline did or I want to learn this or I'll you know you've got a very specific way of moving a way of dancing. You don't look like anyone else how did that happen? Or how did that? But it's true. Like it was that you set out to do that or that I mean, how did you develop Emmeline as a dancer? Speaker 2 You know, I I have a lot of the question in private in classes. How do I find my brand? Mhm, let's find their brand and I always feel like my answer is you don't find your brand is a brand that finds you. so I feel like most of the time people are trying to force a character to happen, but For me. The key is like, if you if you just work on being aware about what you do with your body, how your body moves naturally and try to develop what you doing, naturally, then the brand can happen, you know, I do. So I think this is what I've been doing throughout my path. I didn't try to look a certain way even though, of course, I've been inspired by those Legends as everyone else. And, you know, you want, It to look like this or this. But I think what I did was really trying to just understand my own body and movement. So I do Point, what I'm doing, it's it becomes a choice, not just something that I suffer and I tried to make peace with my own motion. Meaning, it's mine, you know, I cannot change it. I cannot really look like somebody else. So why not making it a strength? Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, Dave look even more push further. What I'm already doing. Speaker 1 Yeah, that makes sense. My one is like, I want to look like Kyle and no matter how much I try. I don't. So I need to like, stop trying, you know, Speaker 2 you can still try to, you know, like, Take a bit of like those magic that people has and just analyze. How does it work with your body? Mmm, So this is what I'm really encouraging my students to do. So as well to just try to get to know themselves better in what they are doing. And therefore, the student alter something that they're doing. It's easier to come from a place where you, just who you are or, and they said, I think what's inspiring me. The most in the high-level dancer is when they just manage to stick to who they are. And they just like, try to bring Get like so far that then it's yeah, it's magic on the floor. Yeah. Which do you like is not happens that often? I feel like most of the time I just see people trying to reproduce what they think will be successful in that, you know what will work? Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I really enjoy that. I feel like I've been in the dance, just long enough that I can see all stars, maybe even Advanced dancers and you look and you go, yes, like they've got something there. Bring in something and then you see the progression progression and unfortunately, then you have to compete again then against them in Champions. You're like, shoot, I knew this guy was going to be good but yeah, it's really fun to see the difference between, as you say people repeating and replicating something as opposed to Bringing themselves to West Coast Speaker 2 Swing. Yeah. And I daring to take risks, you know, like I'm not seeing risk in terms of like acrobatics or anything like that because, you know, I'm far from doing this myself, like, it's not Actually my my zone of comfort, but yeah, just like daring to daring to dance, you know? Just it's like not to to dance for For successful, you know, goal or something like that. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah that's brilliant. Okay I'm going to go through some of the questions from the Facebook group. The first one was from Stephen. It said have you grown as a judge over time? I mean do you change the way you judge you change what you look for? Do you feel that you're getting a better? Judge over time? Speaker 2 I feel it's like waves. So of course you know I feel like what I improved is my speed. So you know, I Our first I can be in dissecting and analyzing and ranking people overall, but I had good and bad days, you know, like everyone and I feel like from an event to an another, I would change the criteria that I'm I'm prioritizing, I would change. Actually what even I prefer? Uh-huh. You like as judges we are also human beings and as objective as we trying you know to be or like non-biased, we've got our moods Stu. Yeah. My mood as a dancer, I've got way. Is this like sometimes what I even want to try, Moore's is to go outside of the box. Sometimes. I I want to see people really like grooving and like being with rhythm. So, of course, I've grown and I'm growing constantly and sometimes I feel like Taking it at an event you know as a judge I feel like super efficient and everything and then the next weekend suddenly my scores are all over the place and and you know I'm losing myself in what I'm watching too. So yeah, waving this would be my answer. Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. You say that I'm sometimes at the end of a week and Susan will say to me, I was really good as a judge this weekend. And then and then because I am see so much. Then when I judge, sometimes I get there and I'm lost in in their speed and I'm naughty, just haven't got it down and it feels kind of Everything feels slightly harder Speaker 2 work. Yeah, yeah exactly. Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay this is an interesting question from Mike. Well, he said, is there anything particular to west coast swing dancing in Europe that you wish would come to the United States or you wish the states would pick up on and vice versa. I mean, what? First of all, I guess what differences? Do you see if any from Europe to the state's when you compete when you judge when you dance? Speaker 2 Well? So many, oh really? Speaker 1 Hold other Speaker 2 podcast. We don't come to the states often do. So you're like it's more my comparison would be towards. Like also the Americans, that is traveling to Europe and that I see here. I feel like the biggest difference for me is like the middle slot, okay? Because like there is a constant presence in the middle slot and also towards like the width of the slot. So like sides connection and lateral connection, that is really present in your work that when I go to the state's I'm a bit lost into it because it's very present in the extremities. Uh-huh. So Speaker 1 in the end of patterns, you Speaker 2 mean interested There is this element that I've noticed. The patient's is different and feel European dancers or more patient and formal Speaker 1 present. Yeah, Speaker 2 connection Americans are faster and more as compared to body sensation. Yes. Speaker 1 I love the fact I can just put myself in either category which ever one sounds best. I might oh yeah, I'm European for this one. Oh, I'm American for this one is. Yeah, yeah. So you talk to me more about the you said about the middle and the kind of, so with that, would that be down to, in Europe? You feel, there's maybe more constant connection or constant communication, whereas when you come Stateside, it kind of maybe drops out to more, like a zero on the 34, or Speaker 2 Something like that is like in Europe is I could close my eyes and feel most of the leaders constantly. Okay, Eden's closed eyes. Let's say, you don't like that in the States because there is like those like a bit jumps. Yeah. Which is not bad at all. It's just different. Yeah. Because I feel like they also relate moron, sometimes like visual connection. Yeah. Also because of the difference in language because English is like they're an active language. So they would also be more attention to lyrics to playing. With the musing in that term in Europe and I was getting better, but I barely understand lyrics, most of the time. So I really thought on the vibe of the music and the atmosphere in the, the instrument that is also like another difference that I can pinpoint. Uh-huh. but it might be why I like it's Yeah. There's like some some breaks some absence sudden Apparition in the connection in the states. Speaker 1 Yeah. Well I think what's really interesting for me? Living here and my geography is terrible but I can tell the difference from state to state with what you're saying and it is and I guess it comes down to the leaders of those communities, what they're teaching. Because whereas in, I guess in Europe, potentially you guys are traveling to each country more. So you're teaching is, is filtering down in those countries, not just those States, you know, because it really is funny. I get students say to me, oh, I went to I won't even say a name actually because I don't want to offend any states, but I went to so and so and it was really light, and it was really this. And then we're and and or I teach someone from there and I say, hey I need more, wait, I need my wait. And they're like, oh well, so on Says, and it's just so I think there's more I guess there's more divided amongst the the teachers here because what you're saying? Yeah really I go oh yeah I can tell the difference from state to state here. Speaker 2 Well, I'm and like for me like when I say, you know, constant presence it doesn't even have to do with weight because I feel like some of the Europeans are extremely light and extremely soft but I could still feel the constant presence. Mhm. you can also observe, you know, because they They usually say, in the state's it's like Molinaro weather in Europe. We've got a lot of like more roundish motion. Yes. And instead of round, I would say, I would talked about it as, like elliptic, you know, and so I feel like in Europe, it's still linear but we would really work with the thickness of the line. Uh-huh. And like, loot look for the edges of the line, whether like it states. I feel like it's like the line is as thick but we just, you know, have very thin one in Speaker 1 the middle, like Yeah, that makes Speaker 2 sense like it bounced from one point to another. Yeah. Whether it's like more progressively accelerating and decelerating. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's funny. You talk about that. And then on the screen, Emily was just wrong. Kind of like a infinity figure eight, because Susan and I we practice on Wednesday mornings together and often will watch a couple and then we'll replicate what they were doing. Will try and add what like something. From that dance, we like to our next practice drill. And some, we do that you guys do and we call it the Figure 8 drill and we try and figure out a lot more and make our slot a bit wider and keep everything in like curves and arcs and figure eight. So, it's so funny. If you just spoke about that, we literally have coined a drill that is from you guys called the Figure 8 drill, because that's what I see when you guys dance is, it's so much. It's a wider. Yeah, we often yeah. Steal stuff from you Speaker 2 guys. All right, see ya, but yeah, we obviously talked often about not having sharp edges but always our kids, you know? And like rap the connections between really bring in things. Yeah, Speaker 1 okay well to finish off after such a kind of inspirational moment. I'm going to bring it back to boring judging stuff. At this is a something that you might rub your eyes out, but Cause I was gonna say costumes, clothing, do you care? Do you give a crap about what people are wearing shoes shirts? And I know this is this is almost upsetting after having you say those beautiful things to me. And now I'm like, okay, talk to me about clothing to finish. What do you think? Speaker 2 I don't care at all. Okay. And like we had Foods, we had an episode like this not long time ago where one of the competitor came to the dance floor, you know, like in socks and sweatpants And I didn't care whether I know some Jewels might even not like, how do you say when you cancel someone. Speaker 1 Yeah. Disqualified, are you Speaker 2 disqualified like the person like straight and no II don't care? Because for me, close is so important to dance who you are, you know, like is like to wear very white clothes and I keep having those comments. To know. Why are you wearing like, large t-shirts and things like that? But it's because I need to feel the fabric when I move, you know, it gives me like this impression of more connection with my body. So, I feel people decides for their closing for a reason because they feel comfortable in them and because maybe like, this is what will allow them to be who they are as a dancer on stage. I don't take it as a lack of respect, you know, towards the crowd, the judges or anything when, when somebody just make a decision about their attire, And I was, you know, the one like early stage when we had just to wear sandals, you know, and like those pants and like, I didn't feel like myself, I didn't feel like, I danced and went slowly, we could wear boots, you know, I was daring to wear them in comps, whether, you know, we had like these things about my gosh. If you wear boots, like, you won't be in final or things like that, but So I would always push in the direction of freedom of yeah. Being who you want to be on. Speaker 1 Yeah and I'm sure High number of people listing will be a super excited to hear that because that's really been one of the most contentious things on their swear. It's like because it's quite divisive and like, even something I said, on my podcast I got people message me, be kind of rude about what I had said, you know, it was like really it's it's really something in swing. A is a contentious divisive subject, so I'm sure people love that. It's just, it's about your personality. It's about what you feel, you move best in. Speaker 2 Yeah. That's Speaker 1 okay. So where can we see you next? I heard you told me, you were coming over to Mad Speaker 2 Jam. Yeah, we'll be at mirjam, it's not next weekend, but yeah, in a week. So we simply said, back in the States and then Speaker 1 you have time for private lessons, Speaker 2 not anymore. Speaker 1 So they need to get out too. Uh quicker next Speaker 2 time. Yeah, I know that anymore unfortunately but it will be also for 50 to 80 and swing tacular normally and DCS. Okay. Chances in the states and in Europe or agenda is pretty packed. Speaker 1 Okay, cool. That's awesome. What judges want? Well how awesome. Was that? What a great finish the show? I'm looking forward to seeing Emily, not mad Jam next week. Weekend. And I'm also going to do some more special. So we're going to do some one-offs. So reach out to me with someone off ideas for what judges want, please continue to share it, the good news about this, this podcast doesn't go out of date, so you can keep listening. I'll see you next time.