S2, E3: Understanding Different Generations of Accountants - Journeys of Accountancy

Justin’s background Hello, I'm Joanne. Speaker 2 Wood and I'm Mark Cowan. Welcome to Journeys of Accountancy. Speaker 1 Today we speak with Justin Jones, who earned his Bachelor's and Master's degree in Accountancy at Boise State and works as an auditor for the state of Idaho. Justin, thank you for joining us today. Speaker 3 Thank you for all having me. It's good to see you all. Speaker 2 Let's start by having you tell us your background. Where did you grow up and what led you to study accounting at Boise State? Speaker 3 So I grew up in southern Idaho in Jerome, which is just a little dairy town right across the Canyon from Twin. What got me into accounting originally was I took a high school accounting class and it was just basic. It was bare bones, way less than you're learning 205. And I just took that fill in elective and I thought, you know, this isn't bad. And then I go to college and I didn't. I didn't start out initially in that I was a culinary arts major. I was in that for about a year. And then I realized it's a lot of hours for no money and I didn't know what to do with my life. And so I was like, well, I took an accounting class I like two years ago and I went and I ended up loving it. And, you know, here I am, just seven years later, goes quick. Speaker 2 Here you are and so you you have been pursuing a career and you are an auditor with the state. So kind of tell us about your job. Tell us you know what your typical day like. What kind of things do you do? Speaker 3 So I am an auditor for the legislature. We are technically the Legislative Services Office, the audits Division and what we do is we audit the state agencies, the various state agencies that receive federal funding grants and then we also audit you're the ones that received the state funding to ensure compliance with state laws, state code, those things like that. And it's it's pretty interesting. You get to see a lot of the the nitty gritty of government. Ido's pretty transparent with how they run things already. But when you're in there, you actually get to go even a level deeper than that. And it's it's really interesting to see how it all functions, how it all works, makes you love it or hate it. Speaker 2 Does it function well? Speaker 3 I'd say for the most part, yeah, there's the biggest issue and you guys probably run into this is people don't read. So we when we do compliance with grants and things, it, it gives you the instructions in the grants and a lot of these people just don't read. So then they get findings. That's the biggest issue. Speaker 1 So that's an interesting point, 'cause people don't read, students don't read like, and as a habit, students won't even read the instructions, they'll just start at the the problem, right? Yeah. So how did you get yourself to kind of change your mind? So you started reading. Was that during college or was that on the job? Speaker 3 No, that was definitely during college. You learn pretty quickly if you don't read everything. Get your butt whooped pretty quick, whether it's through grades or my parents. Listening and reading were taught pretty young when we grew up and it's it's definitely a lifelong skill that you need and everything in your job and in life in general. Speaker 2 And now you're seeing it in a context of where when people who are getting this funding failed to read and follow through on the instructions they were given, they potentially could lose that funding. Speaker 3 Yes, Sir. One of the ones that's been in the news recently was Health and Welfare. They got a child care grant that was supposed to help learning loss from COVID and it was supposed to go for kids ages 5 to 13. Whoever was running the grant that health and welfare ended up giving it to kids over 13 and under 5. And they also didn't read their appropriation bill and so they went over their appropriation for that. And it's actually it's a case with the attorney generals now, so. Speaker 1 So for our listeners out there that aren't accounting majors, what does appropriation mean? Speaker 3 That's that's your budget. That's what you get to spend every year. The state legislature appropriates, gives you the money, They budget you the money and they'll tell you this is, this is what a certain amount gets used for. This is what a certain amount cannot be used for. There's a cap usually on what you can spend for certain things, and it's there's trying to think how to explain this. Employee costs, I couldn't think of the word there's employee costs, administrative costs. And then something that's kind of different with governmental is trustee and benefits, which is where a lot of the grant money from the feds usually goes to and they went over by a good chunk of change on their budget, so. Speaker 2 So you're the one, your team of the auditors are the ones that are going in and finding these problems. Does that cause any awkwardness or does that cause any trouble like 'cause you're going in there to people in their workplace and kind of questioning what they do and then pointing out that they made some major mistakes? How does that feel and how do you deal with that? Speaker 3 It's not fun. Nobody likes being audited, especially if you're coming in and you're telling them you're wrong. Usually when they're wrong, the legislature Dings them, whether it's through a lower budget or less people to work with, things like that. I found the best way to kind of work with the animosity or the general tenseness that comes with that is just, you know, be kind, be happy. Usually people work with you a lot better. I found if you're nice to them, you know, if you talk to them a little bit instead of if you just come in and you start demanding things or telling them what they're doing wrong, that helps. And then sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes people are just upset, I guess is a better term. Better word for it, they're just upset that you're coming in and they've been doing this job for 5/10/15 years and you're telling them it's wrong and you're younger than them and they don't like that. And you know, even after all of that, we get the final say, so it their opinion matters. It also technically doesn't. Speaker 2 That's interesting you brought up. One of the aspects of this is being young and that is a problem I remember from public accounting is and they used to call it the the Gray haired problem, which is not a problem I have any more. But at the time, at the time, you're going into people who have 1520 years of experience and you're supposed to be the the auditor, like you said, and pointing out things where they might have gone wrong and they're like, oh, you're just a kid, what do you know? Speaker 3 Yeah, that rubs me the wrong way. Not because I think I know more than them or anything like that. It's just, it's just general lack of respect just based on how I look. I started and you can't see me on here, but I had hair. It used to be down to my back and I'm going into governmental accounting. The let you get introduced to the legislature when you first start and they did not look happy to see me. And you go out to agencies and they see a kid that looks like that and they're not happy and you're young and then you're telling them they do something wrong. And you know, so just the general lack of respect, it always bugged me. There's no need to be disrespectful, you know, whether someone's younger than you or whether they look different. I I took it with a grain of salt. I was not as happy with them afterwards, you know, but you can't, you can't really bring it out on them. So I was maybe a little more determined to get the audit done quicker, hopefully find something. Well, you don't want to find anything, but it was so. Speaker 2 You've kind of used it as motivation. Yeah, like trying to do a good job. Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. You want to do a good job. Speaker 2 Finding that everything's clean or there is a problem. Yep. OK. Speaker 3 Yep, Because if you find a problem, you know the vindictive side of you is like, huh, you're older. I mean, you don't know everything, but if there's not a problem, it means you're done earlier and you get out of there earlier and you don't got to deal with them anymore. So. Speaker 1 So I have you know you started out that way? Where your hair was long and they were disrespectful and then maybe you found a problem and now people can't see, but you've your hair's shorter. Yeah. Have you gone back to offices that treated you poorly a couple years ago and now they treat you different? Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, There's been a few there usually, and I don't know if that's how I talked to him before, but they're a little more talkative to me now. There was one manager at an agency that used to never give me the time of day and now we he'll stop and talk to me for 5-10 minutes when he sees me. First thing he commented on was my hair, how it got cut. It looks much better, more professional, so I don't like him too much, yeah. Speaker 1 And that's that's such a great point. I I know that as society, that's a thing and it's wrong. Yeah, like, I don't. I don't even. I think of you as the same person as when you were a student. Like, I don't even think that way. Right. You're just still the same person. Your hair doesn't matter. Speaker 3 Yeah, it's what I says. You know, if I know what I'm doing and I do my job correctly, it shouldn't matter how I look. Speaker 2 Now, Justin's probably got an issue that I gave him advice that he should cut his hair because that is sort of the way, even a few years ago when the job market was very tight accounting employers tend to look like you don't want to stand out in that way. You don't want to stand out by, by, by, by the, by the clothes you're wearing to interviews or by long hair or things like that. So over the years, we've had students who have reluctantly had to change, you know, kind of change their look to one that's more traditional professional, you know. Now I get the impression that that is not the case anymore, that you canmore be who you want to be. You find that you looks like you had some trouble. Speaker 1 And I think that's kind of happened since COVID. I feel like the world has relaxed in general in a lot of aspects. Speaker 2 Things we thought were important before. Speaker 1 Just aren't anymore right, 'cause people had meetings from their home and they started to see real life and they realized the person was the same no matter how they were dressed. And I feel overall societies became a little bit more LAX. I feel that way. And long hair came back during COVID, right? Yeah, 'cause nobody could get a haircut. Yeah. So I think the world's kind of changed a little. Speaker 3 Bit, yeah, I agree in a better way, more relaxed, a little more accepting. It's nice and I don't know if it's because of job market, you know, you know after COVID everyone needed a job and everyone needed employees. I don't know if that factored into it, but it's it's a nice thing to see. Speaker 1 So some students are always reluctant to go into accounting because of the long hours, and they're gonna be stuck in the office. But your job's a little different and it allows you some flexibility and it allows you to do some some other things in your life. Tell us about your schedule. Speaker 3 So I do four 10s and there's there's a couple different schedules in our office. Some people do 5 eights, the traditional, some people do 4 nines and then their next week is short end based on that two week span. I do the four 10s and the only stipulation with our office is that you have to be in the office three days a week minimum, which is fine. I don't, I don't mind going into the office for the most part, you know, you get socialized a little bit and things like that. But the flexibility if if I have a doctor's appointment and you know, I can go in the middle of my day and I can do that if I call in sick one day, you know, it's it's not like my work's piling up other people usually on that same audit. It's it's not what I thought accounting was going to be when I first started in accounting, 'cause you hear a lot about 60 to 80 hour work weeks in public and things like that. And we do, we do have some overtime in our office that we have to do, but it's only for about two or three months out of the year. We are not allowed to go over 65 hours in a week per Idaho code. And the most I've ever done in a week was I think 55 and usually that's only for about two or three weeks when we have to get one of our big audits at the end of the year in for the rest of the busy season it's around 40 fives. So the flexibility there is amazing. You can. I don't have a family, but if you have a family you can go, you know, to your kids sporting events. We have a manager that says she's never missed one of her kids events because of the flexibility that the job provides. Speaker 1 So if you're working for 10s, what time does your day start? Speaker 3 I am up at 4:00 in the morning and I start at 5:00. Speaker 1 That means you get off at 3:30. Speaker 3 I don't take a lunch. I leave at 3:00. Speaker 1 You leave at 3, and that's a choice they'll let you like. They'd let you start at 8 and end at six if you wanted. Speaker 3 Yep. So we and this is just our office, but we are not allowed to start before 5 and we're not allowed to work past seven. So as long as we get our scheduled hours in during that day, you know, we're pretty, we're pretty flexible to work whenever I like to get my day done as early as I can. We have some people that do the exact opposite. Someone doesn't come in till 10 and they don't leave till 6:30 or 7:00 every day. Speaker 1 That's a good thing. I've as I've started to take over the accounting internships, I've had a lot of students ask me how do you become an accountant and have a social life? How to become an accountant and have a social life And you just explained exactly how right you are done at 3:00 and you have plenty of time to do whatever you want and you're not stuck in the office. And even if there is projects you have to leave at 7:00. Speaker 3 Yep. And you can't do more than 12 hours in a day. So there's I mean there are long days if you're if you're doing those but the nice thing is there's a cap, you know and the managers are very, very firm on that. You hit 12, you're done, you hit seven, you're done, you know you hit your minimum hours. You're required to work that week whether it's overtime week or not, you're done. You know it's it's fantastic. I leave and people are still emailing me, people are still working. I don't check my phone at all. I don't feel any pressure for management to clock in essentially after I'm gone. So it's I step in, I work, I step out, and it's the last thing on my mind. Speaker 2 I think we should point out that what you, you know, this flexibility that you have is not, is not something that's rare because a lot of students don't think about that. The need for accountants in government The government needs accountants, the governor, government needs auditors. And what do you say is, as somebody who works for the state, do you see there being a lot of need for new accountants to go into government service? Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. There's a there's a huge need. A lot of the issues that we run into, like we mentioned earlier with the health and welfare one is, is people not reading, people not understanding. And a lot of the time it's someone that's in an accounting role or finance role that doesn't have a background in in any of that. So they don't understand how any of that works and you're coming in and you're essentially for that short audit time frame if if they're willing to listen, teaching them, you know accounting works and how it's needed. So there's always a lot of turnover based on that and there's always a lot of turnover in our office too because it is, it is a little niche. You know it's it's not public accounting, it's not like industry or corporate or anything like that. It is is definitely different and some people love it, some people hate it. But there's always, there's always an end is growing. You know, with, you know, as more people come to Idaho, more government needs, more government money starts flowing, which means more audits, more time, more energy is needed in the accounting world. Speaker 2 And at the same time as a state employee, you get very good benefits and there's a there's actually a pension at the end and so people are people will retire and that opens up more opportunities for newer accountants. Speaker 3 Yeah, you. So our pension is called Percy. I forget what the acronym stands for, but the nice thing as as you all know, is pensions, They're defined benefit plan. What you got is what you got, which is. Speaker 2 You'll get a monthly check when you're retired. Speaker 3 Yep, it takes five years to vest, but once you do that, you're in for life. And one of the perks, the other perks of that, besides the the defined benefit is Percy has a rule of 90, which is how many years you've worked for the state plus your age. Once you hit 90, you can retire, which for me is I believe 55 to 57. You can retire two years early. Speaker 2 You've already got it figured out. Oh yeah. Speaker 3 Counting down. Counting down only 29 more years. Speaker 1 29 more years. Speaker 3 So, but that that's nice because you know if if you want to leave, you can, you can go do something else or you can just retire. Percy has a myriad of options where they'll they'll cover your Social Security benefit until you turn 65 or whatever it is now they've upped it, but you know, so you have that. You could continue working if you wanted. You can. You can buy years of service and retire even earlier if you have that money. So. Speaker 2 So we've kind of talked about how there's a lot of great things about working for the state, namely the flexibility, the benefits. The drawbacks of working for the state And it sounds like it's interesting work where you get to learn and to teach other. We've also been interviewing a lot of people that take the more traditional route in public accounting and corporate accounting. There are some drawbacks, right? Yeah. And what what do you see as those drawbacks? Speaker 3 Pay is definitely, I would say the biggest one that comes up. Benefits are great, schedule is great, but pay is is subpar, especially working in a conservative state that is not a fan of increased governmental spending and things like that. There, there's there's that issue and it's been brought up a lot and it's getting better. It's still not great and it's never gonna be great. You make enough to let you do what you want to do is is what I tell myself. I I make enough. I pay my bills. I have money leftover to do what I want at the end of the month or the end of the week. And more more money would be nice. You know more is always better. But I it it gives me enough to have the lifestyle that I want is what I tell myself. Another con depending on how you lean politically is you're working for a usually pretty conservative legislature and we are, we are non political, so we can't, we can't really lobby or anything. I don't know why anyone would want to lobby anyways, but we don't do any of that. We don't push any bills or anything like that. But depending on which side of the aisle you lean, it can be, it can be frustrating for some people to see the stuff that's getting pushed out and and knowing that you're not really doing that, you're not the one pushing it out, but you're kind of a cog in that machine, which is what I struggled with when I first started. But there's definitely more pros, I think more good that's coming out of what you do than than bad so. The path to advancement Tell us about how about advancement like these? Is there like, what's the path for? It's very clear in like public accounting, right? You're there for two years and then you're a senior and then you become a manager a few years later, then you can potentially become a partner. What sort of the advancement opportunities, if that's what you are interested in? Speaker 3 So our office just recently switched to what public accounting does based off of time. Now you're there for two years and you get bumped up there for another year or two. You get bumped up, which I'm not a fan of. I had some beef with that decision, but it's out of my hands. We used to be more of you know you come in and if you show that you you can do your work and you know what you're doing and you can be trusted to do this on your own or with a team then you you you can get promoted within a year within you know six months depending on your experience. Now it's it's strictly timeline based. They I remember our manager's decision was she wants to align it with public accounting as closely as possible to help show pros cons to what you're deciding for if you're deciding between state or public. Speaker 2 But it's not just. But just to clarify, it's not just timeline, it's it's, it's also you have to have the skills and the competence. Oh yeah. Speaker 3 You still need the skills and the competency for sure. Speaker 2 Because sometimes there's this reputation of government. Well, if you, you hang around for two years, you'll get promoted, you know, But this is, this is more to say that we're gonna put you on a typical schedule. That is OK. Speaker 3 Yeah, they've they've pretty much mainlined it. So everyone's the same, Nobody's different. You still need the skills, you still need to have that competency. To get to the top promotion in our office, you need ACPA. But for all the other ones, you don't need that. And the top one, even with your CPAI believe you have to be there for about five years or have five years of experience coming in and. Speaker 2 What's your? What's your plan for the? Speaker 3 CPAI am studying for it right now. I'm not cracking down like most people are, but I am studying for it. But I'm going at my own pace. I I'm not going to lose my hair. Speaker 2 Over. Well, we already know how important your hair. Speaker 3 Is. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So I'm not going to lose it over the stress of of that or the stress of my job or anything, so. Advice for College So if you could go back and talk to yourself when you were starting college, what advice would you give to yourself? Speaker 3 Oh, so long ago. Speaker 1 You're. Speaker 2 Not that old though, no. Speaker 3 What are you talking about? It's been like 2 years. I would, I would tell myself to enjoy it more. You know, at the time when you're studying or when you're taking those tests or you're grinding on a project and you think, oh man, this is this is awful. It it not making any money. I'm paying money to be here. That time, for me personally anyways, was the least stressful time in my life. I had no bills besides, you know, paying for college, but no bills, no outside obligations. No, I don't have to worry about am I going to make rent? You know, I was able to. I come to school, I get to, I get to learn about something that I enjoy doing. I get to hang out with my buds and then I get to go home. I get to hang out, do whatever I want. You know when you're, when you graduate, you're an adult. Yeah. The real world kind of comes at you quick. It's it's like you're losing like the last little. And it's not, I know you're not a child in college, but it's like losing that last little bit of childhood, you know, now the world expects you to fully, fully provide for yourself and fully be able to essentially just adult. And so I tell myself, enjoy it. You know, it's four or five years, it goes quick and then you got 40 years of work, so. Speaker 2 And when you say enjoy it, you don't mean like, oh, go out and party. You mean more awareness of the freedom that you have and the opportunity that you have. Is that right? Speaker 3 I'd say both. Speaker 2 OK, both. Yeah, I'm fine. Speaker 3 Bit of both, but definitely, definitely more of the awareness of the freedom that you have for sure, because you can, you know with this you can choose to come to class and there's consequences. But you know, I would say depending on how much you miss, they're not lasting consequences. You don't show up to job, you can get fired. So a lot more repercussions in the real world, but. Speaker 1 So there's a time and a place to adult, Yeah. And there's a time and a place to enjoy your weekend and have fun at college. Yep. Speaker 3 There you go, 100%. Speaker 1 So try to separate those between, you know, work days, you know, yeah. Speaker 3 And weekends. Yep, I struggled with that. When I first started. I only had weekends and it it bit me. I can't cuss on here. It bit me in the in the butt, you know. I actually ended up failing when I switched to accounting. I failed my first two accounting classes 'cause I never went. And I actually failed Joanne's class once because I was telling my weekend phase a little bit there. Speaker 1 I don't remember that, just since. Speaker 3 Oh, I do. Speaker 1 OK. Speaker 3 It was a motivator for me. So it worked out, but it was, it was an eye opener for sure, especially once I realized I wanted to pursue a master's as well. And I, you realize the GPA minimum. And I didn't have that because I had spent so much time having fun outside of class. So then you really had to crack down and and you know, grind and get those grades back up. And you know, if you're smart though, then you can. You can have both, have your cake and eat it. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's just just for the record, it's the three-point O that you need to get into Graduate School. Speaker 3 Is it a 3.3 to fast track it? Speaker 2 No right now. So if you're interested in going to Graduate School in accountancy at Boise State, you at a minimum you need a three-point O overall GPA to get in at all. But to waive the entrance exam, which is the graduate management, the G mat, G Mat, you just need to show a 3.0 overall and a 3.0 in your upper division. 300 and 400 level courses, accounting courses. Speaker 3 Oh, that must be nice. I had to take the G mat. Speaker 1 But you passed. Speaker 3 Not passed, but it wasn't. Speaker 1 Fun. Just so you know, the G mats kind of equivalent to what most people know is like the SAT. Speaker 2 It's like high school math. I mean, yeah. Speaker 1 And English, yeah. Speaker 2 So it's best to avoid. Speaker 3 It Oh, 100%. Speaker 2 Yeah, yes. What are you? How does your. What is your favorite part of being an accountant? So you went into Graduate School and actually you ended up getting a masters of taxation. Yeah, Which is? Which is? Speaker 3 The way to go? Speaker 2 The way to go certainly but but you ended up doing audit. Speaker 3 Yeah. Speaker 2 So did you did you find still the msat useful? Speaker 3 Oh, yeah. I don't know if you remember this. When I first started, my grandpa was an auditor. And when I told him that I was going to the tax route, he told me that I was going to pigeonhole myself into, you know, a really narrow field of accounting. And so I panicked. And Mark and I had a zoom call, 'cause this was during COVID at the time. And he told me, you know, I have people that got the tax degree that went into auditing or they stayed in tax or they went a completely different route. So I found you know he was he was definitely right. There's I have a tax degree and I do audit, but it it has not limited me at all. Speaker 2 What skills do you use on the job that you learned? What skills do you use on the job that you learned in grad school? I mean, not the tax law itself, but did you learn any skills in Graduate School that help you on the job? Speaker 3 Now, definitely research. You know, when you're looking into the tax law and things like that, we don't do any of that. But getting used to reading, I forget what you call call it, but like the boring code you know, getting used to look at. Speaker 2 The Internal Revenue Code. Speaker 3 Yeah, it's bland language. It's dry. Speaker 2 It perhaps made it easier to read all these government regulations that you have to deal with daily. For sure, dense reading is dense. That's. Speaker 3 That's a better way to put dense. Speaker 1 Dense reading. Speaker 2 What would you, what would you say to somebody who 'cause we we go through this a lot. We have undergraduate students and they say I'm going to do the 1:50, I'm going to become ACPA, but they want to do it in some easy way. You chose a rather hard way. Speaker 3 I did choose a hard. Speaker 2 What would you say to them about the value of doing it your way? The Master's way. Speaker 3 Just studying right now, I am, I'm recognizing a lot of what we cover in in your tax classes, things like that. Speaker 2 Studying for the CPA. Speaker 3 Yeah. So just right off the bat, there's things that I know. If I had just gone for a different 150 instead of the Masters, I wouldn't. I wouldn't know. So I'd be studying a lot harder to learn those things instead of now, it's just more like review, you know, You open it up, it's like, Oh yeah, I remember this. And then you plug and chug. There's also, this might not matter to anyone else, but it was a personal thing for me. It was a pride thing to have my master's. I come from a family that most of the kids have gone to college so they all have degrees which is great. But I am the only one out of like 25 grandkids that has a master's. So that was that was a pride thing for me. I think it looks better personally on a resume if I see a bachelor's of accounting, C plus if you get a second degree or if you know if you just have 150 credits for some reason and I'm looking at one that has a master's already. In my mind I'm biased but in my mind I think it looks better and I you might be have better chances in that interview and things like that. That's what part of what sold sold me. My managers told me when I applied at the state was the masters. So there's there's definite value in it. A lot of you head on it, a lot more people find out you do accounting and they're already wanting you and then they find out you have a masters and it's whether it's an audit or tax. Now they're way more interested and you have a little bit more leverage to work with when you interview, whether it's with salary or or position or things like that. Speaker 2 It's something like tangible that you can point to that kind of goes with you throughout your career. Speaker 3 Oh, you have the diploma. Speaker 2 You know that it's, I mean, no, no, the fact, no, the fact that you actually have it on your resume, it's one of those few enduring resume things. You know, because we all get experience at this and that or have this job and eventually they drop off if you work long enough. But the master's degree, the degrees you have, the certifications you have, those always stay on and those always send a message. Speaker 1 So what was the biggest change for you from your bachelor's degree to your master's degree? The biggest change from a Bachelor’s degree to a Master’s degree Now that you're done with both, what's the biggest challenge? Speaker 3 Definitely this amount of studying you can get by, depending on the class, A lesser amount of studying and you could still get, you know, AC or whatever. Do they still have that you gotta have? Was it BS? You gotta have BS. Speaker 2 So in the in the graduate program you you have to have an overall B average of three. Speaker 3 Point. Yeah. So there was, there was that step up right there. And then there was also, I had never had Mark before as a professor, never had taken any of his tests. So big ol change. There was also spending 12 to 16 hours on a single test and that's that's not abnormal. And the tests are fun. You know they're long. But he doesn't. He doesn't give you anything you don't know. I don't know if you still do open notes but all the answers are in the notes and you make them fun. He always has little quips, loves The Simpsons, things like that. So you know it's you're taking a test and it's it's long and it's tiring. But I I did not have a single test in the masters especially that I did not enjoy. That's the other thing was I enjoyed every single one of my classes. The undergrad you have, this is what you're required to take. And you know English, you know you have to take APE class, things that don't even relate to accounting. But when you're in the masters, it's it's all what you wanna do. And that was that was something that I loved. Speaker 2 So our journeys are not all about accountancy and we've heard about your flexible schedule and one of the things you do with the extra time that you have is you have a side gig. How to get into accounting Why don't you tell us about that? Speaker 3 Yeah, So I am an assistant coach at Timberline High School. I help coach basketball and the amount of time that that job takes is it's comparable to another. It's having a second job essentially, which with if I didn't have the schedule that I have now and the flexibility that I have at my job now, I I would not be able to do it. It's the highlight of my day when I get to go into that gym and I get to play basketball, you know, and help kids play basketball and do something that they love and it it makes it worth it. Speaker 1 To advise them on their future college plans. Speaker 3 I'm sure they were a lot like me at that age. They think they know what they're doing already and I'm sure some of them do. So they they just tell me that, you know I can I can go away and you know we're going to do this or some of there's some of them that are have no clue, you know, which is fine. Some of them just don't want to go, which is also fine. But they all have the same overall theme of they they know more. Speaker 2 It's interesting. That's kind of to go full circle back here in your regular job with the state. It sounds like the the clients or the ones you audit seem to think they know everything and they look at you as being too young to teach them anything. And then you go to coach basketball and they think they know everything and you're the old man. Speaker 3 Yeah, they they do think I'm old and I'm only 8 years older than most of them, so that hurts a little bit. It's. Speaker 2 Quite the boomerang from it is. Speaker 3 Quite the other and nice thing is I can make the kids run, so. Speaker 2 You have power. Speaker 3 OK, I have some power there. So that that definitely helps. Speaker 2 Well, and so how's George? Speaker 3 George is good. George is my cat. For those of you all that don't know, she she's also a girl with her name, George, she's good. She finished her diet. She lost like a pound and a half. So now she's slim, which I'm sure she hates. You know she's living the high life came from the streets and now she gets pampered eats better than me most nights. Speaker 2 And and it's important you have that flexible schedule because she demands a lot of your time. Oh yeah. Speaker 3 100% there's there's been times at work where I'm like, I have no work. Can I just go home and hang out with my cat? And they're like, sure, so I have to, I have to use PTO, you know, But it's like I have no work and I can leave three or four hours early if I want. Speaker 1 Well, thanks again for joining us today, Justin. Speaker 3 Thank you all for having me. It's been a. Speaker 2 Pleasure. And for Journeys of Accountancy, I'm Mark Cowan. Speaker 1 And I'm Joanne Wood. Join us for our next episode.