S1E3: René de Vries, Harbour Master Rotterdam

[MUSIC PLAYING] Hello. You're listening to the third episode of Port Coss by the Port of Rotterdam. My name is Anus Kallahe. And in this port cast, we discuss some of the most influential developments, trends and innovations with industry leaders in shipping and logistics. We are now broadcasting live from the New Amazah, the representation vessel of the Port of Rotterdam Authority. And joining me today is Harbor Master at the port of Rotterdam, Renée de Fris. Well, Renée, before we really dive into the content, can you tell us a little bit more about your background? My background. Hello. Yes, I'm Renée de Fris. I'm the Harbor Master for the Port of Rotterdam. You could say I'm the Port Authority within the Rotterdam Port Authority. Been a harbor master for almost 10 years now. Been working quite long for the Port of Rotterdam Authority, starting in the operations and my last job before being the Harbor Master is-- before I applied for the job as manager of the Harbor Code in Asia Center. And then my predecessor announced that he will retire within the short notice. And then, well, then I applied for the job. Yes. And you got the job? I've got the job. After more than six months and a lot of conversations and interviews, I got the job. You got the job. It was a tough procedure getting the job, wasn't it? Yeah, it was quite a procedure, because I was first interviewed with the board of the management board of the Port of Rotterdam. And then with representatives from the Ministry of Infrastructure and then with one of the elder men of the Port of Rotterdam. Yes. And have you always had that passion for shipping and the maritime industry? Yes. And the next one, you will probably be where that's come from. To be honest, I don't know where it comes from. But yes, I have the passion for the maritime industry and the shipping. And where does it come from? If you look at pictures from when I was young, when we were on the holiday, we were family, you see my brother myself playing with boats. So that is-- I don't know that where it comes from. That's playing with the boat and the child. Playing with boats, yeah. Yes. And is it a hard job being the Harbor Master? No, it's an interesting job. I have wonderful colleagues who do the job. My department's roughly 440 people. I've got colleagues working on patrol boats behind the radar screen at the Harbor Code and the Nature Center. And they do for me the difficult part of the job, keeping the port safe and efficient. Yes, you've got a good team with you. Absolutely. So let's also talk about the industry. Because what are the most important developments you have witnessed in the industry over the past couple of years? Well, if you look at the border of Rotterdam in the last couple of years, of course, the development of Maaslak II and combined with that the increasing size of the container vessels. And the last one or two years, well, you could say the new fuels, not the traditional crude oil or gas oil, but now also LNG as fuel for the deep-- the rough container vessels as for Indian barges and in the common GAs, ammonia and hydrogen as a fuel. Yes, because moving forward to the climate neutral fuels, that is a big challenge. How is the port responding to that? We are ready for it. You could say a few, for instance, take LNG as a fuel. We were one of the first ports in Europe where it was possible to bunker LNG for barges. But also for the ocean-going vessels. And now, for instance, CMA CGM has built a new series of ultra-large container vessels and they're all LNG ready. And the first bunkering of an CMA CGM container vessel was happened October last year. So that means you have a container vessel of 400 meters length and alongside LNG tanker with a length of 150 meters. And that is different with the traditional bunker vessels because they were all inland barges quite smaller than the big LNG tankers. So that is a challenge or a change with big impact as well for the port? It's a change. And it's a logical change. And my job is mainly to make sure that it will happen in the safe way. Yes. And is it also the biggest impact for you? I think the biggest impact is the increasing size of container vessels. We can't imagine it nowadays. But when Mars Lector II was developed, we thought that the biggest container vessel at the size of 12,000 TEU. And that is 10 years ago. And if you look now at Mars Lector II, you can see several container vessels. And they can carry more than 23,000 TEU. So we asked ourselves the question within the Rotter-Port Authority. Because every year you show bigger and bigger entering the port is Mars Lector II still accessible for these deep-to-art vessels. And luckily it is. It's a positive answer. Before giving that answer, we asked the marine-- and that's a research institute. And they have a simulator. And they have simulated the arrival of these big container vessels on the all weather circumstances. Yes. But they are getting bigger and bigger. I mean, you couldn't imagine a few years ago that they were so big as they are now. So what are the consequences for the whole supply chain and also for the hinterland? Yeah, well, for my job mainly is the traffic planning, of course, from the North Sea into the basin and the interaction with the other vessels. Because every day 80 ocean-going vessels entering the port and also leaving 80 and more than 100 inland barges on the day-to-day base. And that process goes smooth. The traffic planning is a puzzle. Yeah, but it's a puzzle. But that process goes smoothly. That goes absolutely smooth. But I think the biggest challenge when these vessels more at the container bird and then they put 5,000 container on the key side and they have to be divided by trained barge and truck into the hinterland. Yes, that's also a very complex process in the whole supply chain, I can imagine. Absolutely. Yes. So these are the most important developments you have witnessed in the last couple of years. So what do you expect for the future? For the future? Well, I think there will be also for the coming years container ship full grow, I think. I don't think there will be many more ships because if you look the last 10 years, it's still every year about 30,000 vessels, some years a bit more, some with less. So it won't get busier? No, it won't get busier, but ships will become bigger. New fuels, as I just mentioned, will be another development. Yeah, and of course the developments on autonomous vessels that will be new development. Yes, because what will be the impact on the whole industry if those autonomous vessels will be the standard? Well, that means something to start with for the cruise on board of vessels, of course. I bet you will not. Of course, I don't think that autonomous vessel coming from the North Sea will enter a port within the coming four or five years, but it will be different steps from the traditional vessels to smart vessels who will be managed from the shore center and then later on autonomous vessels. And for the coming, well, two or three decades you will have the traditional ships, the smart ships, and finally the autonomous vessels. And then in the marching is ahead of the ocean-going vessels because for in the marching there now, we are now testing, we're doing trials with autonomous in our port already. Okay, there are also pilots already pilots that are operational. And if you talk about those autonomous vessels, how is the port preparing their infrastructure for this operation? We want to be ready for it. We are not making these vessels ourselves, of course, but when ship owner comes to us and we want to sail with an autonomous vessel to your port, well, my job is to make sure that we are ready for it. And it starts with legislations because now in the rules of the road, every ship has to have a captain. So it's only on the one hand an issue of legislation and on the other hand, how do you communicate with a vessel where there's no captain on board? So that means interaction between different software systems. Yes, interaction with different software systems. And you also have to adapt the physical assets like the pre-walls or ballers or. Yeah, if you, for instance, we are now on the new bars that there you have a captain on the bridge. If you bird at a jetty within 15 minutes, the captain is looking to the key wall, to the ballers, know how to maneuver. And but if there is no one on the ship, a system will do that part of the job. So the system has to know where's the key wall, where's the baller, what's the draft, what's the wind direction and speed. So that means that there's a. a very strong and solid interaction between the digital twin in this case. So there's a real data communication exchange process going on. Absolutely. 24/7 and extremely reliable. And extremely reliable. So what do you think? What will be the biggest challenge then to move this process on in a positive? No. First of all, I would say we have to make sure that it's absolutely cyber secure before starting operations. And when we are absolutely sure that that is realized, I think the difficult thing, but I'm not from the IT sector, is that all these different systems have to communicate with each other. So standardization is key. And then of course, as you said, you have to make sure that all these different systems from different manufacturers have to communicate with each other. Yes. So all those systems they have to communicate, all the data has to be shared. You mentioned cyber security as well. Is support ready for this operation? Not now, but when the first autonomous vessel is at a horizon, we will be ready for it. Yes. And how do you get all those stakeholders? How do you get them along this route? How do you get them involved? Yes. Well, of course, we have a very good relation with all the stakeholders in the notable sector. But it all starts with the question from a ship owner, can they enter the port of order with this type of ship? And then we will look together with him how he can achieve the best safe and efficient way to do it, to ask you to answer to his question. Yes. Well, Renee, also our previous guest, Bart Kauper, he also, he left a question for you to be honest, because of the current disruptions in the supply chain. He was predicting or he thinks that it will be an increase in the intra-European traffic. So do you have an answer to that question? Do you agree with him? Yes. And with the disruption, you mean Covid-19 or the Suez Canal or both? I think both, yes. But also the size of the vessels you already mentioned. But there are disruptions in the chain. There are disruptions and there will be disruptions in the future, I think. But I don't think that will lead to near-shoring that routes will be produced in Europe instead of Asia. To be honest, I don't think that will be the case. Our memory will not last that long. Is that because of our human brain that we don't feel the impact of the Covid crisis? I think that it is and labor is cheap in Asia and it's more expensive in Europe and that I think that's the main reason. So I don't think that will be the case. So you don't? Sorry for Professor Kipers. Sort of a Professor Kipers, yes. So you think that we will go back to the old situation? I think we will go back to the new normal instead of the old normal. So disruptions will be also in the future, but I don't think that will lead to a significant change in where routes will be produced. No, so you don't believe there will be an increase in the intra-European traffic? No, not more than we see now. Okay. So, Renee, what is your next question for our next guest at the portcast? My next question for the next guest. Well, that would be a typical harbor master question, because as you know, my job is to keep the port safe and efficient. So my question for the next for your next guest will be, how can you help me and how can you help yourself to make sure that Rotterdam will be the safest port in the world for the coming decades? Yes. So will be the safest port. How is it? Will stay the safe port. Because how is it with the safety at the moment? Well, yeah, not going to would I would say, but up to now it's a very good year, not too much collisions. Yeah, and are you talking about the traditional safety then or the cybersecurity? Yes, cybersecurity is also a very interesting topic. Maybe interesting to mention that earlier this year we started a so-called cybersecurity initiative with the name Fem. As a company in the port of Rotterdam, you can join Fem. You can be a member of Fem. And Fem will help you and your personnel in the cybersecurity awareness. Okay. I think it's a wonderful question for our next guest. You also have somebody in mind? Well, in that case, I would suggest Aveline Bross and see the director of Fem. Okay. Well, let's see if she is available. She is. Are you already know? You know, you know, you will call her. Well, Renee, thank you very much for joining me here at the third episode of the port cast. Thank you very much because we are going to close the port cast. Are you enthusiastic about the port cast? Please leave a comment and tell your colleagues and friends about it. My name is Anuskele Hei and this series of port cast is commissioned by the port of Rotterdam, production and edit by louder brand activation. Thank you for listening and stay tuned for the next one.