S1E1: Annet Koster, Director KVNR

[Music] Hello and welcome to this first podcast in a series of supply chain talks by the port of Rotterdam. My name is Anouschela Hei and in this series I will discuss some of the most intellectual developments, trends and innovations with industry leaders in shipping and logistics. With me today is Annette Costa, since three years she is the director of the KVNR, the Royal Association of Netherlands Shipowners. Over the past years she has been challenging the members of her association in order to change the image of the shipping industry and to become more visible to the broader public and stakeholders. Well Annette, hi, welcome. Thank you. How are you doing actually? I'm doing great. Happy to sit here and talking to you about what is going on in the world of shipping. So looking forward to this conversation. Yeah. Well, it's wonderful having you as our first podcast guest. Yeah. I did know that I was the first one, so big honor. So thank you. Well, you are. You are the port cast. It is. Well, let's talk first of your career because you have an impressive career in lobbying and public affairs. But now you are the director of the association of the Netherlands ship owners. So how did you actually end on this position? Nothing was planned to be honest. And I started my study wanting to be a juvenile judge. Something happened, something came along and something changed that path. And now I'm sitting here. Never planned anything. That's my advice. So juvenile judge and now the shipping industry, do they have something in common? The only thing I can come up with is that they're both in need of change. There were both when at least I was planning of becoming a juvenile judge. It was of the reason that I thought that youngsters in certain positions were. Yeah, we're not giving equal opportunities and that the legal system wasn't helping them on that path. And I think that's the same with shipping. We have something of a kind of bad reputation as well. So I think that is the comparison I can make between them both. But that's the end of the comparison as well. That's the end. Yeah. Because we will talk about misconceptions absolutely in the sector and the shipping industry. But you say it's also a sector that needs a change. Yeah, I think we are innovative and we are busy changing the idea and the views people have about shipping. But at the same time we are traditional and they need ship-on companies need to be brave enough to explain what they are doing and explain. In what kind of way they are changing the world. And that's necessary. If you take a mind that 90% of all goods are transported by sea. We cannot avoid talking about the role of shipping in the future. Because that's not something it's easily changed. So we play a big role nowadays and I think we will play a big role in the near future and in the far future as well. So your progressive ideas actually already resulted in winning the Port Personality of the Year Award in 2020. Actually it is called the Port Men of the Year Award. So why did you actually win this prestigious award? As I read in the paper, it's because of the things that we at KVNR and me as a person have done in the COVID-19 pandemic with regards to crew changes. And the problems that sea ferries were facing with everything going in a lockdown. And there were stuck at sea. At a certain moment there were more than 400,000 sea ferries stuck at sea. Not being able to go home, not being able even to go ashore. Stuck really at sea, like prison. And what we did as KVNR, we made use of our natural context. For instance with KLM, the Royal Dutch airline company. And we invented, if I can phrase it like that, we invented an air bridge and a hub between Amsterdam, of course nearby, the biggest port of the Netherlands of Rotterdam. And the five most important homelands of sea ferries. And by doing so and by cooperating, we managed to get some crew changes done even in very difficult times. And I think what I read that was exactly the reason why I won this title. Because giving a face to the sea ferries is that necessary as well, showing that that are real people. Yeah, unfortunately. Because in comparisons to airline companies, we all are acquainted with holidays and using airplanes as a mode of transport. But for most people here in the Netherlands, but also in other parts of Europe and all over the world, the sea going vessels are unknown, not being seen. It is there far away at sea. And if you don't see those big vessels, we don't see the people actually. No, but because we hardly see the vessels, I think it's even more difficult to see the people working on the vessels. So this is actually this award, the port woman of the year award or the port personality award. Does it also benefit your position or the reputation of your organization? Yes, indeed. I personally benefit from it, but more important, we're still today as we're now talking to each other. We're still in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic and all the problems that we're facing a year ago are still alive today, unfortunately. And I can, we at the KVNR, but I personally use the title and all the media attention to raise attention to the position of not only did sea ferris themselves, but also the shipping companies. Yeah, so it's a great instrument actually. Yeah, so it's when I was informed about the title, I immediately said it's a kind of big present for these days because I can use it. Yes, and in need of using it, in need of using it as well. Yes, you are the only second woman actually to win the award in its 40 year history. Yeah. And it is called the port man of the year award. We could say it's a port personality award. Does it mean anything for you that you are the second woman winning the award? If you would ask me, would have asked me this question a couple of years ago, I would be in denial. And not thinking it was a necessity for me as a woman to win this prize or this title. Nowadays working in shipping and the big disbalance between men and women in the maritime industry, I think it's important. And I think I can use it as well as a perfect example for other women and girls that you indeed can have a beautiful career in the maritime industry. Is diversity on the agenda or should it be more on the agenda? It is indeed on the agenda equality as such. But it should be treated differently in my perspective. We should give good examples and inspire not only the women and the girls, but also the men in the industry to show them what are the benefits of having more women and girls in the maritime industry. So what are the benefits then? It's quite interesting that you are asking me that because when I was driving to this world. building and for having this conversation, I was called by one of our members who said, "I'm changing something in my company. I make some changes and I'm in need of more women." And I said, "Okay, that's the good thing." Yeah, and why more women? Exactly. And that's why I accept the same question as I asked him. I said, "But may I know why you want more women? Is that because you need to do so? Because of our governmental things." Exactly. And things. But now he said, "I'm convinced that more women on the table brings another atmosphere in your company." So discussions are different and there's more attention to the human side of certain discussions and things like that. And it's also proven that actually women that they're really at value in the organization and the companies. Yeah, if I look at my own organization as small as it might have been, I think that a good balance between men and women will, on both sides, challenge people. So, yeah, there are differences between men and women. And of course, there's a man with some female touches and there are women with some masculine characteristics. But I think that we should both learn from each other. Would it also be your advice to the logistic professionals who are listening at the moment? Yeah, yeah, certainly. So bring it more in balance. Yeah, bring it more in balance because they will bring you more. But it's not only because of the gender and I think we always have this discussion at least in an alliance between men and women and the gender cap and things like that. It's also of background. It's also race. It's also beliefs and religion and things like that. So I think the discussions should be taking more wide. So this is one of the goals maybe for the sector to get more diversity in the organization. What other goals do you have for the future for your personal goals maybe? I think that's an easy one. Despite COVID-19 and everything what's going on there, I think if you look at the climate, if you look at what shipping is doing to our climate and the role that we can play there to give our children and children of tomorrow a better future, I think we can play an important role in that. So fighting the global warming actually? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not only CO2 reduction. It's also a noise below water and all things like that. It's about all kind of pollution. And in any shipping industry there are quite some maybe misconceptions or maybe there's also kind of truth in it that it is a quite polluted sector. Have you physical work? Yeah, with regard to the pollution, of course, our big ships using a lot of dirty nowadays, still dirty. How do you say that? I guess we have an actual exactly. But if you compare it to for instance, trucking or airplanes, it's seven times cleaner than a truck per kilometer. And it's 70, 70, 70 times cleaner than an airplane. So of course we have a lot to do and a world to win. Yeah. Is it only about public affairs then telling the right message or is there also some truth in it that the sector really can change more quickly to us? We have to change more quickly. We set in IMO in the international maritime organisation. We set a clear goal for 2050, 50% absolute reduction. We in the Netherlands were also being realistic. But even more ambitions in our national green deal signed in 2019. We made an agreement about 70% reduction in 2050. But we now just came up with a maritime master plan for getting 30 emission free vessels in 2030. So yesterday or the day before the Dutch government made an announcement that they are willing to pay 150 million euros for the mobility sector. So not only maritime but the total. And how? As a start. As a start. Yes. And we need that start. What are you going to do to get your members ready then for this transition? First of all, we need research and we need research and development. That's the first thing we need. Because all solutions are there. If you're talking about mattenall, if you're talking about hydrogen, all solutions are there. What shipping is complex? There's a wide range of types of vessels and all using different kind of powers, different kind of rights, different kind of distances to overcome. So there's no one stop solution there. No. So it's complex. It's very diverse. And is there a willingness? Is the mind ready in your sector? Is the mind ready for the change? The mind is ready, but it also have to be possible. And the mind readiness is one thing, but there has to be, like I just said, there has to be a proven concept for a couple of ships. So the rest of the sector can follow that one. Because this is, I mean, we talk now what the rule is of the ship owners and the shipping industry, but let also talk about the global supply chain parties in the whole chain because what is needed in the whole chain actually to make this transition work? And the whole chain, what is needed is that one must be aware of the fact that at the end of the supply chain, that a product is being shipped, for instance, and that we all take our part in trying to bring down the impact on the environment. So for instance, if you're going to buy a pair of sneakers, it's always an easy example because everyone is wearing sneakers. And let I use an example of a pair of Nike sneakers. And you will go to the store and you will buy that pair of Nike sneakers. And I don't think if you care if their cost you 100 euros or 110 euros at the end of the day. And the difference is even smaller because the price of environmental friendly transported pair of sneakers is only maybe five or six, two, not even two euros for instance. So we have to be, we as consumers, as we all are here present, we have to be aware of our part in changing that supply chain. And as a consumer, we have to be more aware. But the logistical parties, do they also need a kind of training or a kind awareness to understand what is actually happening in the whole chain? For example, the nautical knowledge, so it's really what's really going on on a ship, all those processes. Is it also necessary to know, to get more awareness of that part as well if you really want to make a transition? No, I don't think so. I have to be honest. I don't think because everybody has got to do their own job. And otherwise we have to know everything before we can change. something. I don't agree on that one. I do agree that we all play our part in it. So it's starting with the shippers who have to choose for the greener ship and must show some willingness to pay more for that more expensive green ship because if in a change the first green ships will be more expensive. So you say we cannot avoid that because of the research and development because of the lack to bunker supplies or things like that. So it's a transition. Yeah, but you're saying everyone in a chain has his own responsibility and his own task actually to do. But what about the cooperation then? Is there enough cooperation? Is there enough understanding of what everyone's role is? And now I fully agree. It all has to do with cooperation, with working together as we say in Dutch having the noses to the same direction, in the same direction. But it had support translation but you know what I mean. Yeah, it has to do with that. And if we can cooperate on this one together, I think it will take less time and to reach our goals. Yes, so get the noses in the same direction we would say here in the Netherlands. Yeah, well actually I've got two last questions for you Annette because first of all, what do you think is necessary to keep the logistic sector attractive also to current and future professionals? You already mentioned a topic diversity, but what do you think is really needed to get the sector in shape also for the future? First of all, feasibility. Because I think that if we look for instance to students here in Delft on the technical university, if they can choose between aviation or maritime, most of the time choose for the aviation aerospace part because that's where the innovations take place. What they think, that's what they think. Exactly. So if we can show them that the maritime sector is, I can't use the word, but it's so freaking innovative. Exactly. And we can convince not only those students but on every level that if you want to be part of the future, if you want to work together on a safe and environmental friendly sector, then you have to come to us. So it's first starts with feasibility. The feasibility is the first step. So what are you doing or what is your association doing to create more feasibility? We launched a feasibility campaign to be honest. It's all starting with that one because when I started in this job three years ago, I've noticed that many of my friends and family and not living here in Rotterdam, not working in the maritime industry, they couldn't understand. Actually, let you choose. I don't know if they couldn't understand, but they knew nothing about shipping and the maritime industry as well as was high because when in the first conversations, the first meetings I had, I was googling on the table because I didn't understand what they were saying. And it's not that kind of knowledge that your uncle has to have, but it has to be as some kind of appreciation, just knowing of how 90% of everything what we were wearing, what we were eating, what we used, what we shipped. What we will see of this campaign, is it for the broader public? This is a campaign that starts slow, but because we're trying to figure out what what the broader public is appealing for and how we can reach them. But you can look and I'm sorry, it's in Dutch because it's for the Dutch public, zee scheefvaart.nl and there you say zee scheefvaart. And there you can see some examples of what we are doing as shipping industry. So what are also your personal goals for the future? Good question. If I have to come up with one, I will say the climate sustainability. I want that we as a shipping industry, the maritime industry, be part of the future and deliver a world that is ready for our children and our children's children. So sustainability. Sustainability. Yeah, because there are some, I don't know if it are misconceptions, but what they say actually is that the shipping industry is quite polluted, a lot of hard physical work work. Is that also true or is it more or less a misconception of the sector? I have to be honest, of course, there are big vessels using all kind of fuels that are not environmental friendly, but shipping is still the most environmental friendly way of transporting goods. For instance, if you compare it to trucking whose seven times more polluting or air cargo whose seven times more polluting than shipping, what I'm saying is that we of course have still a lot of to-do and make a contribution to a cleaner world, but we have to stay in mind that shipping is the cleanest way to transport goods, but we have a world to win. So a lot of work to do in the public affairs, but also in actions. So what are the actions of your association? What will be the actions? We will start with what we call the triple A of the climate of sustainability. And that is adjusting the way of sailing, the A of adjusting the way of sailing, like in time sailing, just in time sailing, with adapted vessels, for instance, both form and things like that, and alternative fuels. Instead of disillin, we can use methanol or hydrogen or whatever. So that's the way we want to proceed. Yeah. Well, I think it's a wonderful initiative. So thanks for that. And in advance, actually, yes, and you are our first guest at a port cost series. What would be your question for the next guest who will follow after you? Yeah, not knowing who the next guest will be. I will come up with a question that I'm curious about, because we're now, as we just discussed in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. And in the Netherlands and in Europe as such, there's a discussion going on about reshoring or near-shoring. Are we too depending on everything what we have to bring from Asia? For instance, the medicine and the medical supplies and things like that. And I'm curious to hear from the next guest, whether reshoring is a chance or threat. Okay, great question. Yes, great question. So let's see if we can find a guest who can explore on this theme. And then Ed, thank you very much for being my first guest at the port cost series. So thank you, because we are going to close this first port cost. Are you enthusiastic, subscribe, and leave a comment? My name is Nuskele Hay, and this production is commissioned by the port of Rotterdam, technique by Burgonia, production, and edit by louder brand activation. Thank you for listening and stay tuned.