S17 E08: Simon Kneen, Brand President at J.Hilburn

[Music] You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. The classic suit isn't dying so much as it's being quietly retired. The trend away from more structured tailored clothing and towards smarter casual wear hasn't lessened the desire for having one's clothes made to measure. In fact, it's open to whole new arena for menswear enthusiasts with a crop of shops popping up all over the place ready to make not only a well-fitting custom suit but everything you'd want to wear. Even luxury fashion houses and independent clotheers have been doubling down on made to measure menswear. My guest on the luxury item is Simon Neen, brand president and chief creative force at J. Hillburn, the custom menswear company redefining how men buy tailored clothing. Simon brings a rare combination of creative leadership, retail expertise and deep fashion industry experience to the role. Over the course of his career at places like Brooks Brothers, Banana Republic and French Fashion House Balmah, he has shaped some of the most recognizable names in apparel. With a focus on craftsmanship design and the evolving relationship between brands and their customers. At J. Hillburn, Simon is focused on fit, longevity and everyday usefulness, reflecting broader shifts in menswear towards personalization, service and buying fewer but better pieces rather than trend-driven fast fashion. Welcome to the luxury item, Simon. Hello. Thank you for having me great to be here today. Yeah, thank you so much for joining me. I think a great place to kick things off is sort of giving a menswear weather report, if you will. What's your take on the current menswear climate and some of the major themes that you're seeing with your customers? It's an interesting part to kick it off because I mean, if I had a magic ball, sorry, magic, glass ball to kind of see what's coming down the pipeline, I'd be a lot more successful, I think, because menswear, it goes through a lot, it's going through a lot of change I see at the moment. And particularly in silhouette, you're silhouette the soft silhouette, so affecting both pants and jackets. And it's going to be interesting to see where that goes. I think, you know, definitely a move towards more noble fibers as I like to call them. The less synthetic wasting show up in our fabrics. And then color, I mean, that may be relevant to me and being, you know, our brand is based in Dallas, which is very much kind of geared towards more colorful, more statement pieces. And I think that affects how I see color. But our clients are definitely not shy about those bold statement colors at the moment. So do you think men are more interested in how they look these days and how they dress than they did maybe 10 years ago? Absolutely, and I love that. I think, you know, just over the last 20 years, I've been living in this state, seeing how men have involved from that uniform of the gray and the blue. I call it the ill-fitting suit back in those days to so much more every part of their wardrobe becomes important. You know, they're looking at how they look up on. And maybe we're in the golf course, obviously, professionally, but socially just as much as well now. So you have a distinguished career, bringing a rare mix of creative leadership and operating perspective from Balmah, Brooks Brothers, and Banana Republic to your current role as brand president at J Hillburn. You were a chief creative officer at J Hillburn prior to this expanded brand president role. And these days, the consensus is that creative leaders have to balance creativity with corporate expectations. They not only have to be creative, but also commercially savvy, communicative, and strategic all at once. How has the creativity leadership role evolved since your days at Banana Republic and Brooks Brothers, you know, retail brand alliance? You know, as you laid that out, it sounded terrifying. But you're absolutely right. And I think that's kind of the name of the game these days. That you really need to have not only a vision, but a story to tell with any brand today. And you need to offer something unique to the client. And he may not even know that he needs that journey that you're going to bring him along gone, but it needs to feel very meaningful. And it gives a clarity to everything at that point from, you know, styling color assets, the lighting. That you use in your photography, the location, even sometimes even the wording of emails. Your own mind presence can be affected all by that vision. And I think, you know, the thing that has changed most, the second part of your question is the fact that today we have so much data available to us to help us make better decisions. You know, I kind of did a little bit thinking back in the 80s how we all kind of wend it and into the 90s because data really wasn't readily available. Or if it was in so many spreadsheets that you took you, you know, four days just to read one. But today everything could be, you know, pulled, dissected, et cetera. So using the data is a really important part of any creator's role. And I think that's what makes people successful. So back then when you joined retail brand alliance as creative design director, your role included repositioning Brooks Brothers. Brooks Brothers in the early 2000s was a classic turnaround story, you know, a heritage brand trying to recover from over expansion, quality erosion, and a failed attempt to chase casual fashion. The court problem was that Brooks Brothers had drifted from its traditional customer. It struggled with the shift toward casual dress and professional America and tried to compete with retailers like J. Cruban and a Republican gap, which alienated its base. So as part of the team that helped reposition Brooks Brothers, what was your approach to recovering its authority as a classic American menswear brand? I like to describe that era approach Brothers is one of the easiest jobs I ever had in my life because it was a heritage brand that didn't use its heritage. So I felt like I was almost like the valet, you know, or the housekeeper, dusting off shelves and finding these hidden gems and just bringing them back and remodeling them. And you know, I think of just a whole Oxford shirt journey and that itself. I think we offered blue and white at the time, but then there was a whole series of colors that we never offered something as simple as that people just didn't see as part of the product offering. So it was a great, it was a really great time. Of course, it's the business exploded during that era, which was wonderful. But the other part of it, I think, which really was a turning point, was it that made it feel more relevant? I spoke about it a little earlier is, you know, the better fitting suit definitely because of the European influence that was happening at the time, the slinner fit that was coming across from Europe, I'm sure you know. At that time, that was really my background and my forte. So bringing that into the aesthetic of Brooks Brothers, where he felt like felt, felt made it feel more relevant and modern. That's fine. You jumped over to Banana Republic in 2008 as creative director. You arrived in an interesting time when the brand was trying to navigate the recession, workplace casualization and a need for sharper, fashion relevance. Banana Republic gained some cultural traction through collaborations and pop culture tie-ins, especially the Mad Men capsule with costume designer, Janie Bryant in 2011. What made it important was that it wasn't just fan merchandise. It translated the show's 1960s office world aesthetic into Banana Republic's affordable luxury positioning and using the costume designer for credibility and authenticity. It really set the benchmark for the TV to retail capsules that you see today all the time. How did the Mad Men collaboration first even come about? Firstly, collaborations are great. I loved doing them and they're really interesting. But very importantly, Janie and I hit it off from the very first meeting, which I think is a very important part of any type of collaboration, like those on between brands. And that was something we were always looking for during my tenure there with these collaborations that you mentioned. Having a good rapport, being able to talk honestly and openly about things that were happening within the product and how those two thought processes would come together. It was really about the electricity that that free activity, different types of creativity, if you like to create together. I'm not really one of those very protective or insecure designers. I actually love to work with other designers and approach solutions, listen to their solutions and how they do things differently. And that was really what it was always about. We Janie, you know, she had created this wonderful aesthetic. It was the mid century modern, but hadn't really appeared at the time in men's fashion or women's fashion. But there were things definitely happening in fashion that you could connect it up to. I mentioned the sum of fits, the bold pattern in women's wear as well, which is something that was kind of the mid century, modern thing. And so, yeah, it was just a very easy, seamless thing to put together in Janie is an amazing person to work with. And men had a very specific visual world, but banana republic had to filter that through its own. accessible luxury, workwear, adjacent identity, too literal, and it comes across as like a costume, and too generic, and the collaboration loses its reason to exist in the first place. So how did you balance authenticity and brand fit? - Well, there's the secret, isn't it, that you mentioned it yourself. It's not always easy, of course, especially with a very strong aesthetic like that. But I've always thought of myself, what I bring to the table is, as a designer, somebody with a very, kind of luxury approach, but an inclusive touch. So making things wearable and understandable, I spoke about color before as well. Wearable color is very important. It's not just any color in the rainbow. It's knowing which of the right color is for the right fabrics, for the right, that's kind of the expertise that I bring to the table, I think. - You said dressing well isn't hard. It's just a choice and like good food and music and good living, you consider it part of what you've called a happy life. So what is the biggest change that you're seeing in how people define dressing well today, versus 20 years ago, you touched a little bit about it a few minutes ago, but just up front the bigger picture. - So you can't see me, but I'm giggling now, Scott, because I say these things, and then I read them back to my stuff, and I like it. - Can I say that? - I so, I'm so not just, how do they ever think? (laughing) - But I mean, yes, it kind of just is part of this evolving thing I call my career. I just learned along the way, I think, filter out the things that aren't important. And dressing is one of those things that Gilles is very important. You know, you feel better about yourself, you feel better about how you sharpened from to others, you feel more confident. And I love what Tom Ford said, I'm gonna paraphrase them every day, then something about the respect for others, dressing well, into the modern form of food manners. And I really delete that, and you know, on the other side of that, I always, it's gonna sound another obnoxious thing, but life's too short for ugly. Why waste your time with it, right? Always choose the best thing you can, the best thing you can afford, and look after them over time, and you think it will pay you back tenfold. You joined J. Hillburn as Chief Creative Officer in 2019, J. Hillburn has been around for about 20 years. It was founded by two executives from the investment banking world. Its business model sits at the intersection of me to measure direct selling and premium menswear. I'm sure many of my listeners don't know about J. Hillburn, especially outside the US. Could you describe the brand, what problem it's solving for men at what makes its business model different? I mean, J. Hillburn is, I was very curious about J. Hillburn when I first heard about it, because it was a custom made menswear brand that was making seasonal collections. So of course you associated that, and it was a tailor approach, or a, you know, the spoke approach. But it was doing it multiple clients at the same time, able to turn around delivery very quickly on these custom made items, and using some of the best fabrics in the world. And then, how they were doing it wasn't through a, you know, the usual retail model. It was through a network of exclusive stylists who, you know, would work one-on-one with the client with a series of swatches and photography and assets and technology to help kind of work all through that part of it. And I'm like, this is so different. And coming from Big Box retail, as you mentioned, you know, after my last job, I was pretty burned out and dilute, you know, very not happy with the world I was coming from, as more like fast fashion. So this felt like slow fashion, obviously, but at the same time, it's not getting back into the atelier, getting back to a real product that meant something to people. And that for me was the biggest attraction. And then, of course, my mandate was to bring casual into the collection because we were really just focused on shooting and shooting at the time. And we needed to bring, you know, all parts of the wardrobe to our clients, not just shooting and shooting. - And stylists are the core sales channel and customer experience engine of J Hilburn's model, instead of relying mainly on stores. You use personal stylists to meet clients, take measurements, learn their preferences, recommend fabrics and looks, place orders and all those things, and basically manage the relationship over time. How do you hire for a J Hilburn stylist? Is it taste, technical fit knowledge, emotional intelligence or sales ability? - All of them, all of those things, right? - I don't really know the secret store, but being a successful stylist, but what I do see that those ones that are successful, are really good at what some describers the relationship business. Very similar to hospitality. It's not about a transaction, it's more understanding the client, where their needs are, and how you can work with them on a one-on-one basis. A lot of our clients work very closely and trust their stylists implicitly. As they're busy guys, they're traveling, they're all schedule, and they know it's very important to look for part, not just be the part. And then the two have time to go to a shopping mall these days and try and put a wardrobe together. I mean, it would be impossible for me, and I'd begin the business for a long time. So it's kind of a winning formula, I think, that a stylist, the successful ones understand and know how to, they're willing to go that extra bit for a client and make sure that they have the right thing at the right time. And if they have a special occasion, or maybe they're all going off to a golf tournament, need some special golf, I mean, all of the things that everybody, we hear that in everybody's lifestyle today, we wanna make sure that where they have them and can make them look until great at every moment in their life. - Do they use any kind of client-hailing technology? - They do, they do. They use, we have a lot of proprietary technology, of course, that we use, and a lot of them use their own. We don't impose any type of client-hailing technology at the moment, but we are working on, obviously, technology is ongoing, update all the time. - How do you create consistency and brand experience when so much depends on individual stylist? - That's a really good question. It's kind of, I see my job sometimes as creating the sandbox. It's a little bit like putting things together that you know people won't go wrong with, but that makes sense. If you imagine seeing a train from to view with fabrics and buttons and thread colors, if you choose them all carefully, that they can work together, and in a way that makes sense, but also have kind of a taste for stylish approach. And I think the stylist job becomes easy because you kind of guide them towards things that can work clearly with the stylist, their client with. It gets challenging, of course, the client wants to go outside the box, and that's what every brand is. You can't be everything to everybody all the time, and I think we all realize that. So Jail, but it isn't for everybody, but it definitely does cater for a very wide range of tastes and butchets. - You know, long existing in the shadow of bespoke, made to measure has been cast as the second best option for those without the money or the time to enjoy tailoring's ultimate expression. However, made to measure and tailoring appears to have benefited from a post-COVID desire for better fit, more intentional dressing and personalized service. Prada, Dolce and Gabana, and other luxury fashion houses carved out physical spaces and their menswear outpost for made to measure programs. What do you think drove the surge in made to measure demand after COVID? - Yes, I mean, I think COVID really, COVID era and after made people think differently, obviously about things, a lot of things. But ultimately for anybody in the power business, I think we all saw this upgrade philosophy. People wanted more for what they were spending, if that makes sense, makes sense. And a little bit self-indulgent, which is fine, right? I think it goes back to this idea of luxury is a self-indulgence. And spoiling yourself, but without obviously breaking the bank, I think the demand for better product would came out of them were all striving towards a better product that fits better into their lifestyle, not trying to even put their bodies, but into their lifestyle. And that idea I mentioned it before, that kind of best you can afford. I think people don't like to compromise anymore, particularly successful, dies who want to spend their money on nice things. They demand more and rightly so. I mean, I don't know if you'd be to a shopping mall recently, but it can be a pain, but it's doing it, shopping. Like I said, mentioned before. And let's be honest, I hate shopping anyway, especially American guys for a power. So JTL then really can answer a lot of solve a lot of problems for guys. And that's to me, feels the right place to be at the right time. So who is your core customer and what are their most common problems that you're trying to solve for them when they first come to you? Is it fit, time, confidence, wardrobe, confusion, or occasion dressing? Who are they and why do they come to you? I don't know if you know all of those things pretty well. It's exactly that. It can be any of the above. You know, shit is always the same thing. There's a lot of guys out there that can't find things, that shit them. And even if you can, there's always some alteration you're going to have done. Right. And I don't think people realize that the security is shopping for it. Let's take a suit for you. You know, you probably going to have to have a hammer just did the sleeve length not may not be perfect. If you're going to have that adjusted, I mean, that in itself is going to be time and money that you don't have to spend on top of a, you know, an off-the-rack price. So the, the, the, the counter to us really knowing it's kind of interesting because it sometimes feels like we're getting members to a club rather than to a, to a brand because once they discover that what we can offer, it's installed so many problems for them, but also doesn't feel like they're spending an enormous amount of money on top of what they would already be spending. It's kind of a winning formula and they, they become very loyal to us and the, the band and the stylists. But if you find himself is probably this, as soon as it was a wonderful man, who realizes that looking good is part of his status in the world and showing up professionally and socially looking and feeling confident that him is not an option. It's kind of a must-have. For you seeing it's mostly older millennials, are you seeing a surgeon Gen Z? Or they boom? Yeah, it's very sudden. I mean that the, the younger generation come in that we, we kind of pride ourselves on having online to call it gateway product. The people can come into the brand easily and effortlessly over from off-the-mark shopping. So, you know, directed, obviously, more to younger customers. It could be maybe his first suit for a wedding or for an interview or something. So, that's definitely something that we look at and trying to bring new types into the brand. But, demographically, I mean, you know, demographics are difficult to discuss because, you know, those very successful people with money to spend a 20-year-old these days. And then the regards to retiring in Florida and want to look the part every day no matter what. So, I guess the sweet spot is really that 30, 40, 40-year-old plus guy who's probably starting to make money in the world and wanting it to express himself better. In menswear, fabric is often where quality really shows up. So, where do you source your materials from? Oh goodness. So, this, you're talking about, so I have a lifelong love of fabric. And if we start talking about fabric, we could talk for hours and hours because I'm fascinated by it, like they said, I'm in love with it. And it really is the key to menswear, isn't it? Of course, it's very important. I'm very, very lucky because not only do I work with some of the best mills in the world, but the people who work in Los Milos, I've been working with the most of my career. So, you know, Laura Klanah, has been a geolude's a-near radar, guitar about barrisco, canonical, tributt, or tenure, to root, to touch. I mean, from a smathem, I'll beat all of these mills, which anybody who knows menswear will know them as, and if the icons of menswear fabrics, mostly from the yellow region in its leopards, which is this really ugly area at the sound of the alpha. One of the most beautiful places on the planet, basically. And that's where the mills are and they create some of the most beautiful fabrics every season without fail. And I think it's quite job-easy. You know, I rely on their taste and collection development to help me do a good job. And to be honest, curating collections with the taste of the nail out of these mills, not only is it easy, but it's also one of my greatest pledges, you can imagine. I consider myself to have this lifelong love of fail with beautiful fabric, like they said, but also one of the easiest jobs on the world because like, look what I do. I can't believe I get to do this every day. So when you're designing for Jay Hellburn, what materials tell the clearer story of modern luxury? I think Hala is a really important part. One of the things that's obviously the quality of the fabric is very important, but let's just take that for granted when you're working with these brands. The sensitivity to how to match pattern and color together, together to update things that look the same, but of course, it's a great guide that's completely different. So I think there's this misconception in menswear that it can be called boring, but a little difference, a little nuance of color or pattern can actually change it completely from where I sit. That's something that I love in the detail of menswear. And I think that's what I can see you as well. You know, he's looking for an 80 blue suit and you think, you know, that there is a limit to the 90 blue suit he can have in the world. I sit the other way around. I feel like it's an infinite amount of 90 blue suits you can have in the world. You can pattern nuances color shades of the needy, shades of what you can mix native with how you put it together, etc. So it really is a very everlasting journey of you like of working with these Italian fabrics. So how do you teach customers to understand the difference between good, better and exceptional materials? I think the easiest way, I mean, personally, I'm sure you've had the same experience is it's just wearing fabrics you understand. We pride ourselves and like I mentioned, even at the lower price point, we pride ourselves in having exceptional fabrics that we resource from all around the world. So particularly in today's lifestyle, people are on the go, they're commuting, they're on planes. Travel is probably one of the worst things you can do to your clothes isn't it? So it doesn't take the long time to understand the difference between good and bad fabric. And I think that's why tonight's become very loyal first because we, you know, make sure that our fabrics perform, they work well, they don't need a lot of care or maintenance, such as another thing which turns clients off, you know, you want it to look good all day, you're in meetings from morning to night, if you've invested in an outfit, you wanted to look and perform grateful day long. And that's what modern fabrics tend to do. That's really kind of the latest evolution, if you like, in fact. So what's your personal focus for the next 12 to 18 months? I know. I mean, this is the duty of what we do is my, because like I said, I had a crystal ball at the beginning, I get so excited about what's happening all the time in our world. It always teach on your toes. There's never a dull moment, quote unquote. I do think in men's wear, you know, seeing that the softening up of tailoring was, I mentioned the beginning here that, you know, seeing some of the softness coming back into tailoring, deconstruction, wider leg trousers, my cut symptoms, the better. How that's going to evolve. How the client is slowly reacting, how, you know, I've seen these kind of more evolutionary processes in men's wear happen over time. It's another thing about men's wear, it's slower, it takes more time. It's not a flashing the plan business by any means. So a slower process that we have at J Hillbone fits better into men's wear than it would into women's wear, for example. So that for me is something I really got my eye to. I love how men are not afraid of color, doesn't much anymore. I will be honest, like I mean, I go around retail all the time. And I still see oceans of, of mutuals everywhere. And I love a neutral palette to get me wrong, but I just love how our clients are responding to color and seeing where that can go and how far we can go with him. Yeah, that's kind of my next 12 to 18 months. How much sugar role do you think social media has played in the way men dress? Oh, enormously. Whether they like to admit it or not, it doesn't take long for social media to find out where you've even paused on outfits and start feeding you more and more. I see social media is like having your own personal magazine. You know, editor feeding you things that you're interested in and I really I spend hours of looking myself looking at all the people who influence me so I think it has an enormous effect but the better right because it does demand you looking at least things I follow people always look fabulous and break locations and this great things to aspire to on that and our clients are definitely looking at it. So Simon my final question is the luxury item question which I ask on my guess so if you were stranded on a deserted island and you could only have one single luxury item with you what would that luxury item be it can't be any form of air or water transportation to get you off that island or anything that requires mobile service to call somebody to get you off that island it's just you on this lonely deserted island but you have one single luxury item with you what would that be anybody who knows me and be listening will be laughing at this because they would know how to answer for me but it's gonna be a cashier me a sweater I like it I think cashier for me is something far too beautiful in life to live without and everybody should have one in fact I jokingly say my happy task is going to be cashier for everybody Simon Neen brand president of J Hillburn thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item thank you so much to be here that's it for this episode of the luxury item podcast thank you so much for listening if you found this useful and entertaining I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode and while you're there be sure to rate and review us on Apple podcasts it really helps other listeners find us the luxury item podcast is a production of silver tone consulting I'm your host Scott Kerr until next time