S17 E01: Stephanie Macleod, Director of Blending, Scotch Whisky at Bacardi

[Music] You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury, and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. Spirit's Giant Picardi is one of the major players in the Scotch Whiskey business, which is built around doers as a global blended brand, plus a tight portfolio of single malt distilleries under John Doer's and Sons. One of the leaders at Picardi that has been central to building Doer's modern reputation, profile, and premium credentials is my guest on the luxury item, Stephanie McLeod, director of blending Scotch Whiskey at Picardi. Stephanie oversees the blending and innovation of some of the world's most awarded luxury whiskey brands, including Doer's Scotch Whiskey and Oberfeldi single malt whiskey. She made history in 2019 as the first woman ever to be named Master Blender of the Year by the International Whiskey competition and has since gone on to achieve an unprecedented six consecutive wins, cementing her status as one of the most influential figures in the industry. With nearly three decades of expertise in whiskey craftsmanship, Stephanie leads a predominantly female lead team of blenders, responsible for developing ultra-premium releases across Picardi's portfolio. Welcome to the luxury item, Stephanie. Oh, thank you for having me. You lead blending for doers and Picardi's Scotch distilleries and for those of my listeners who are uninitiated in the world of making whiskey and other spirits, could you just briefly explain the main role and responsibilities of a Master Blender in a distillery? Ah, well, a lot of people ask me that question. And as you could imagine, and the next question is, how do I become one? Is normally the next question I get? But yes, the role of the Master Blender is pivotal to making our whiskeys. You know, at duers we have a range of blended Scotch whiskeys, as well as single malt whiskeys. And so for us at duers, my role is to ensure that every drop of spirit that is coming from our distilities is the best quality that it can be. And then that spirit is filled into the correct cask types in order to fulfill the flavor profile of all of our whiskeys. And we fill the whiskeys into a variety of casks, you know, bourbon casks from the US, and cherry casks from Spain, casks that have previously held Scotch whisky, casks that have been rejuvenated. And then later on in the process, we will do what we call finishing. So that's where we take the whiskey from one type of cask and fill it into another type of cask. So for instance, a wine cask or another type of cherry cask. So something that's going to add some depth and complexity to our whiskeys. When we are looking at one of our single molts, for example, Aberfeldy, you know, we're as with a blend, we are looking at different types of malt whiskeys and different types of green whiskeys to form our blends. And those can be up to about 30 different spirit types. But for Aberfeldy, we're just looking at the spirit that is coming from Aberfeldy. But again, with Aberfeldy, you know, as well as for, you know, the single molts going to our blends, we will fill Aberfeldy into bourbon casks, into cherry casks. And again, we may finish it at the end as well. So it's the same kind of disciplines that we use for our blends and for single molts. But obviously they are treated in different ways. But the thought process, the planning is exactly the same for both types. And it sounds almost like a combination of an arc and a science. It very much is, you know, I have a science background as do, you know, most of my team. And the scientific discipline is very important when you're thinking about the type of whisky that you have and that you hope it will be in the future. And so the new makes spirit that comes from the distilities give us as an indication of how it's going to mature. I mean, what we want every time from our distilities is exactly the same type of spirit. Sometimes we'll get these little variations. And so we may then have to think, hmm, could that be an exceptional cask in the future? So what if we put it into this other type of cask and let's see what happens to it? So, you know, sometimes even if we're not thinking particularly about innovation, we may be presented with an opportunity just through, you know, studying the liquid and then thinking about what could that be in the future. So we're really not just thinking about, oh, this is a new makes spirit and it's going to go into cask or thinking about what is this new makes spirit and what could it be in the future to add some depth and breadth to our portfolio. And your journey into the world of whiskey and path to becoming the master blender, addures and McCarty's director of blending for Scotch whiskey was not a conventional one you started off doing food science at a university and focused on sensory analysis. Could you talk about how Scotch whiskey entered your world and what hooked you in? Yeah, I mean, you're right. I mean, it was completely by chance that I got into the whiskey industry and it was really because although, you know, I was born in Scotland and educated in Scotland, I had no idea that the whiskey industry could provide me with a career in the future. And it was almost like some kind of well-known secret in Scotland. We knew that it was being made up in the Highlands and there was secret recipes and there was men in tweetsuits that assessed the spirit and it was very, very secretive and not much was known about it. And so I never sought as being relevant to me. Whiskey was something that older relatives consumed and perhaps a flavor profile wasn't quite what I would have wanted. I remember buying a single malt for my dad for his birthday when I was a student and really not having much of a clue of what I was doing. So basically the whiskey industry did not feature in my radar. And so when I graduated, I joined the soft drinks industry. And which I quite enjoyed, but then my supervisor from my university, my undergraduate course, phoned me and asked me if I'd like to work with him to study the maturation of Scotch whiskey. And that's really when I fell in love with whiskey and not just with the whiskey itself or even the process of making whiskey, but the personalities of the people working with whiskey. They were so passionate about whiskey. They had such great knowledge, they had such great stories and they really wanted to share them with me. And I knew at that point that whiskey really was where I wanted to be. And so I decided that after four years of academic study that I didn't just want to study whiskey, I wanted to be part of whiskey. And that's when I joined yours in 1998. I can have worked my way through different departments. I was encouraged then to do more on the side of the laboratory and maturation and casks. And that's when I then began to study under the then master blender, Tom Haken. And it was basically an immersion in the world of blending, making up my own blends, talking to other blenders in the industry to find out what they did. And learning that blending is about patience, although that's one thing, perhaps not mastered very well, and understanding the importance of wood and the importance of knowing that you can never quite predict what a cask is going to do. And they're natural. And so is the production of whiskey. It's three ingredients. We don't add any additives. It's just water, multi-barlie and yeast and oaks and thyme. So I knew that once I got into the whisky industry, I wouldn't want to leave it. It's just every day, is really a school day in whisky. Yeah, and after you joined John Deore and Sons in the late 90s and 2006, you rose to become a new scientist. The first woman, too, was the most pivotal moment that clicked you on that path. I mean, when I was asked to, did I want to train to be the master blender? And I realized I would be the first woman. You hear stories of people being buried with a bottle of white label. And your product is with people at moments that matter for them. So you can be there in births, weddings. And so it's a big responsibility that we show up in our very best form because it means something to people. And that responsibility weighed on me quite a bit at the start, but it was also exhilarating to know that I was part of the legacy of jurors and continuing. And in some small way, developing the house style of jurors, but also of our single moats as well. When you took over at Doors Master Blender, did you see an untapped opportunity to push the brand into new territories? At that point, in 2006, when I became the master blender, China was starting to come onto our radar, the Fari Stasia. And I began talking with people about what was the perception of whiskey there. So that's really where my first assignment came in. I was asked then, could you blend a new expression of jurors, a juror's 15-year-old? And I thought, wow, what a first assignment. And really what we were wanting to do was to tap into the Chinese market and the flavors that they enjoyed there. And that market has changed completely since I first started working there. The Chinese market is very knowledgeable on Scotch Whiskey. And so we threw an assessment and blind tastings. We then came up with three candidates for jurors 15-year-old and they were all very, very different. And we then invited people from that market, people from other markets to all come to Scotland, assess these three whiskeys and tell us which one they liked best. And luckily they actually chose the one that I thought they might go for, which luckily was the one that we had the most stock of. So it was a few moments when that happened. But it really was such a learning curve for me to actually tap into the market itself. So I was thinking about what I wanted to do. And then trying to address that through the selection of the different malt whiskeys and grain whiskeys. And not only was it really sent in China, it then the US, jurors 15, to its heart. And I'm really very proud when people tell me that's my favourite whisky and asking me how it came about. So it still is a great source of pride. And when people ask me, what is your favourite jurors whisky? That is the one that I always talk about because it's the one that's closest to my heart because that was my first child. You lead the sensory side of the business, which is tasting, grading and selecting casks, deciding how they're combined, matured and finished. So the whiskeys remain consistent yet interesting across time. The realities of modern operations mean huge warehouses with 10,000s of casks, complex logistics, data systems and process controls. How has your role evolved with these more complex parameters? As our expressions of jurors and our single malt have become more complicated, therefore so have our systems. For example, our jurors double, double range, that is a four step aging process. So at each stage, we are assessing the spirit and ensuring that each element is exactly where it should be at that stage in the process. And it isn't just about the sensory assessment of the spirit. We work very closely with our laboratory and through the analysis that they do on our maturation related compounds, their results then also we assess these results along with our sensory results to see that there aren't just sensory markers, but there's also the markers from the maturation compounds. So that these elements are very important. And one of the things I did when I first started working at jurors, I found it curious coming from an academic background that all of our sensory decisions were based on one person. And so I decided that this was crazy and that we really needed to have a group of people who were also trained that could also assess the spirit as well. And so it's important to have a collective of people who are trained in sensory analysis that can be assessing our spirit alongside me and my team because we have a lot of products now. And so it is really important that we have a breadth and depth of sensory ability that are assessing those spirits. And as you say, we have thousands of casks. And not only are we assessing the spirit that's in the casks, but we assess the casks before they are filled as well, especially our sherry casks and our wine finished casks we use for wine finishes. Just to ensure that there is nothing there that could affect the spirit because you often were using very old, very valuable spirit and putting them into these casks. And so we want to make sure that those casks are able to take these very old and very valuable whiskeys because it would be very upsetting if an off note reaches these whiskeys. So we take great care to ensure that there are no nasty surprises that come down the line just by careful and systematic assessment, both sensory and chemical at each stage of the process. Scott Whiskey brands design new expressions or specific versions of a whiskey mainly to keep their business growing and their drinkers engaged while making the best use of the stock maturing in their warehouses. Who determines the market or brand need and hands you a brief? So we have our brand teams who are constantly talking to our commercial teams in all of [BLANK_AUDIO] markets. And we also have an insights team as well who are looking constantly at, you know, what's the voice of our consumer? Because we are constantly looking at that as well so that we aren't missing the mark. However, as I often, you know, the example I often make is, you know, smartphones. So I had no idea, you know, 15 years ago that I really needed my phone to tell me where to go when I was driving. And indeed to, you know, help me do my banking. But now that it's here, I wouldn't know what I'd do without it. So there is the cool of what the consumer is telling us and what they're buying and what they like to taste. But there's also the experiments that we are doing. And, you know, just looking at different types of, of casks and, and, you know, thinking, well, that could be really interesting, you know, our consumers haven't asked for it. But, you know, what happens if, you know, if we try it. And, you know, things like, you know, the, the jurors double 21 year old, you know, we filled them into magma stone toasted casks. And you really just to see what it was like, you know, what was the influence of the French oak, what was the influence of the American oak, what happens if we adjust the toasting levels, what, what happens there. And it was an intriguing project for us. And we got some really amazing results from it. So, so an answer to your question, it's, it's a bit of both. It's a bit of, you know, the brand teams talking to us about what they're hearing. And then it's about us saying, well, you know, why don't you try this? We think it's terrific. What do you think? And, you know, most of the time they are on board. And, you know, marketers love a compelling story. And, you know, the whiskey industry is built on amazing stories. And, you know, we find that our whiskey drinkers all over the world love to hear how we make whiskey. Why do we do what we do? And, and what are the results? And they love to hear about things that failed as well. I don't know why. But, you know, and, and Scotch whiskey blends, can differ from region to region, primarily due to regional taste and consumption styles. Scotch drinkers in the US skew more towards sipping, collecting and premium exploration. While I'm assuming much of Asia's Scotch is more tied to status, mixing and social occasions, how do you tailor expressions to complement regional taste and consumption habits? Well, the, the recipes for, you know, jures white label, jures 12, jures 15, those remain no matter where it goes to in the world. And, you know, our, our strap line used to be on on jures was, you know, never varies. So we don't adjust the, the blend recipe depending on where it goes. But, you know, your rights, you know, people drink whiskey's in, in different ways. And, and they enjoy it in different occasions. And, you know, I do quite a bit of traveling all over the world. And I, and I love to watch how people, you know, enjoy our whiskeys. I remember going to China in about 2008, 2009. And they love to pouring jures 12 into a picture with lots of ice, you know, almost the way you would serve beer in the US. And now in the UK. So I really, I was appalled. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I'm sure of whiskey. How could they? But then I thought, well, they are enjoying it. That's right. They, they like to drink it. And so that was a really valuable learning for me because, you know, I thought, you know, we make whiskey to be enjoyed. That's a whole purpose of, of making whiskey. And, you know, we, we also look at, you know, what, what is igniting people in terms of culture? And, you know, we realized that in the US, your Japanese culture, Japanese ways of presenting food and drink were really important in the US. And so again, double, double, 21-year-old, we sourced some misanara tasks from Japan. So they were, they were made in a coup rage in Japan and shipped to us. And this was actually, you know, 2020 during lockdown. We were, you know, waiting in these cask coming through with all the confusion that was going on in the supply chain. But these beautiful casks arrived as if nothing had been happening. And we, we filled some with double, double 21-year-old. And, you know, I don't know if you've ever tried misanara finish. But it just gives us this beautiful ethereal, perfumed aroma to, to the whiskey. And, you know, it's very paired down and, you know, it's just a beautiful whiskey. And it was actually ranked ranked number seven in the whiskey advocates. Top 20 most exciting whiskeys of 2023. And I think it scores like 95 points or something like that. And so, you know, we were really proud of it. Again, it was one of these things we thought we would experiment. And, you know, we thought we love it. So, you know, we think everybody else will love it. And, and they did. And, you know, people still, you know, I'm traveling about, they keep telling me again how much they loved that particular expression. And it, it, we then start to build confidence because, you know, we, we think, well, you know, you know, we like it. You know, we love drinking whiskey. We love, you know, drinking other types of spirits and wines. You know, we believe we've got a really good palate. And, and it's good to see that that that is then translated to yes, our consumers love it as well. India is a priority for doers because it's a huge fast growing whiskey market that is trading up to premium scotch. And recent tariff cuts make long term growth even more attractive. I believe India is actually the world's largest whiskey drinking nation by volume. How are you tuning your flavors to Indian preferences where luxury and super premium tears dominate scotch growth there? Yeah, I mean, India, you know, it is your right. It's our number one export by, by volume. And, you know, they, they love, they love whiskey. And there's this, you know, burgeoning middle class who are really excited by scotch whiskey. So you have, I've been to India a number of times. And the message that I get from them is that, you know, we don't want anything different from the rest of the world. You know, we want to, we want to be drinking the same as they're drinking in America, in Japan, or in France. You know, we, we enjoy the taste of scotch whiskey. And, you know, we, and you know, duor scotch whiskey and the single malt. And, you know, we want, we want it to be that way. But, um, you know, India is, it's a vast continent. And so it would be wrong to say that, you know, the north of India has exactly the same needs and requirements for flavor as, as the south of India. And, and, but I, I can see as doing something, um, that, you know, we reflect, um, the different Indian taste, swimming meals. You know, we obviously do different packs for, um, different holidays, you know, Duaali, um, is, is, is one that we do. But that really is just a, a different pack that we do. Um, but yeah, I've really only been to Mumbai and, and you, Delhi. So I've, I've only scratched the surface of, of India. Um, but one of my team actually is, is from India. Um, and he just, so she gave up, you know, her, her life in India to pursue her dream of, of working in scotch whiskey. So if we're writing any tasting notes and I, you know, I'm wanting it to be for the Indian market, she will help me out and, and, you know, pinpoint notes that are important. to her and so I'm thinking to Indian consumers. But it's a very exciting market. And obviously we have a free trade agreement that's in progress with India. So it's going to be exciting there. Everyone is very energized by the thought of Indian market. I'll talk about the American consumer. American consumers may have embraced whiskey over the past two decades. But that enthusiasm largely hasn't centered around blended scotch. There are exceptions, of course, brands that have grown and solidified their status. But overall volume has struggled to remain relevant to the current generation. Blended scotch has shown signs of stabilization and selective growth over the past few years, especially at the premium and super premium ends. What's your strategy for designing expressions that move drinkers up in price and status? Yeah, I mean, premiumization is their strategy with blended scotch, with our jurors range. And when I became the master blender in 2006, I made it one of my aims. The first day was as the first female master blender for jurors, I wouldn't be the last. And the second day was that I wanted to show that a blended scotch could be every bit as interesting and luxurious as a single malt. And I remember doing a tasting in London. And I decided to play a little game. I said, "Is everyone up for doing a blind tasting?" And I had a jurors 12-year-old and I had Aberfeldy 12-year-old. And they didn't know what they were drinking. I asked them, "Can you pick out for me which ones are the single malt and which one are the blends?" And I think one person got it right out of a room of about 150. And what I felt that illustrated was that there was no difference in the quality. There was no difference in the depth of flavor. Yes, they could tell that they were different in terms of the flavor profile. But they certainly weren't saying, "Oh, that's a blend because that tastes really cheap." There was none of that. And it did make people think, "Ah, maybe I have been missing out on a different flavor experience because I have shunned blended scotch because I thought it was a different quality." And I also remember being at a whiskey fair and inviting someone to try jurors 18-year-old. And they said, "No, I really don't do blended scotch whiskey." I said, "Well, try it." And the guy tried it and he said, "Ah, I didn't know that blended scotch whiskey could taste like that." And that was a great moment for me. If we can get our whiskey drinkers to try blended scotch whiskey. And if you think about our double-double range, the cues that we associate with a single malt are all found in the double-double range. So we bought it at 46%. There's no chill filtration. It's natural color. But not only that, we're employing this four-stage aging process, which ensures this incredible integration, first of all, of all the molts coming together. And then finally, they're blended together and then they are finished in a different expression of sherry depending on the age statement. And a huge moment for us was in 2020 when a completely blind tasting of blended scotch single malt Irish whiskey Ameri. And Irish whiskey, American whiskey, Japanese whiskey. They were all assessed and the judges did not know whether, "Jewers double-double 32 year old was a blend or whether it was a single malt such was its integration." And that's when it won the best whiskey in the world. And so if whiskey, if blended scotch whiskey is made in the right way with the right care, with the right thought and the right attention to detail, it really can be every bit. Because the skill is the same. We are using the same methods. We're using our factory system. We're using our laboratories. The same care is taken with single malt or blended scotch whiskey. And, you know, so we really, you know, want our whiskey drinkers to appreciate what a blended scotch whiskey can give them. But also, you know, thinking about our single malt as well, you know, our Aberfeldy exceptional casks series. You know, we recently did an Aberfeldy 15 year old, which was finished in Bulgaria red wine casks. And you know, Aberfeldy is, you know, you know, it was the only facility to have been built by the Jewish family. So it's, it's, it's very important to us from an emotional point of view, but also from a, you know, the character of the spirit itself, because it's very complex, but also it's very approachable. And it's very, it's very amicable and it gets on with most types of casks. And we hit this rich seam of wine casks. And first of all, we started off with French wine casks. And then we hopped over to Italy. And we just love the nuances that that we get from the interaction of the Aberfeldy flavor profile with the flavor profile of these exceptional Bulgari wine casks. And we don't just put the whiskey in the cask and then forget about it and then your fingers crossed, you know, we're we're assessing it on a monthly basis to ensure that the character of the cask doesn't dominate the flavor profile of the whiskey. And you know, we are known now for our light touch in in finishing that we will always be able to tell that, you know, this is a scotch whiskey that you're drinking. And so we're very proud of all the very exceptional casks as well. As premium and ultra premium expressions become brand flagships in the scotch whiskey space we're seeing blenders increasingly act as public ambassadors, fronting launches media and education to personify craftsmanship and really justify the higher prices. You yourself have become a high profile brand ambassador for doers frequently appearing interviews podcasts like this one industry events consumer facing content explaining doers whiskey's and new releases. Yeah, I mean, I am, you know, I'm an ambassador for for the jurors brand and our single single malls. I remember though when I accepted the role and I then became the master blender and my boss said to me, so you'll need to learn how to sign a bottle. And I remember looking at him and saying, why would I ever need to do that? And he said, don't know people will ask you to sign bottles. And I remember the first time when it happened, I thought, oh my goodness, you know, this does happen. And you know, it's about what I was saying before, you know, our brands mean a lot to people. You know, it reminds of things that happened, you know, when our whiskeys have been present at different occasions. It really does mean a lot. And you know, remember going to Taiwan. And we were doing a tasting of crequellechi and there was a guy in the audience, a young man who was a doctor and he trained to be a doctor in in Glasgow in Scotland. And he said that his favourite whisky was crequellechi and he brought the first bottle that he had ever bought, which was now empty and wanted me to sign that. And then he bought a bottle of crequellechi thirty zero that he also wanted me to sign that he hadn't yet consumed. So you're absolutely right, you know, people, you know, whisky drinkers, whisky fans, whisky collectors, they want to meet the people who, you know, make the whisky, you know, the people that touch the liquid. And, and you know, they want to hear about, you know, my journey, you know, my, my approach to blending. And but that is in Canada. junction with our actual brand ambassadors who also travel the world and have terrific stories to tell and the kind of combination between the two of us. We make for a very compelling story of our whiskeys, but yes, I mean it is a joy visiting our markets and seeing the excitement and people's spaces and the joy when you bring something new to their market. I love visiting the US, but also places like Japan where they really have taken Scotch whisky to their heart and they also make their own whisky there as well and it's really interesting seeing how they drink whisky again, seeing the foods that they pay with our whiskeys. Sushe goes surprisingly well with Royal Brackler for example. So it's all these opportunities that you get when you go to these markets that then help formulate new ideas when we get back to the blending room and thinking about the flavors and how other things might work with our whiskeys. So it really, as you say, travel broadens the mind and it certainly does when it comes to making new expressions of whisky. You've shared in interviews about your passion for nurturing the next generation of whisky making talent within Bacardi and the whisky industry in general, you noted that most of your blending team are women not by design, but because they were the strongest candidates helping normalize more inclusive talent pipelines in a really a traditionally male sector. What are some of the ways you're mentoring and carrying through the next generation of whisky makers? When I was coming out of university, as I said, the whisky industry was not visible to me. There was no one that I could look up to and say, "I want to do what they're doing, I want to be them." But now in the whisky industry, we deliberately reach out to universities and we have the Bacardi internship and also scholars. So we have a graduate program where we're bringing in graduates. They come in for an interview, it's quite a rigorous process. And then we have scholars, so those young people who are already studying and they get some experience during their summer holidays. And so it's very important for the future of the whisky industry that we are engaging with the young talent so that they can take forward the legacy of jurors and making whisky. And there are so many roles that are available in the Scottish whisky. The obviously master blender is the top one on my list, but scientists, accountant, lawyers, marketeers, you name it, the whisky industry needs it. And we also do mentorship as well. So again, it's talking to people from other parts of the business. Sometimes other companies, other whisky companies. And just talking to people about what their aspirations are. And just helping to solidify the thoughts in their mind and make them believe that they can do more. And that the things that they are dreaming about can become reality. If they just talk to the right people and get the right experience. So as I said, it was one of my aims as the first female master blender for jurors, I definitely wasn't going to be the last. And I've always been very open about recruiting more women into my team, but not at the expense of expertise, you know, the women that are in my team are chosen because they were the best candidates. And that is non-negotiable because it's so important to pick the right people in order that jurors will be around for another 180 years because this year we're celebrating our 180th year. And it's, yeah, I think that's what draws people to the whisky industry is our rich and and and storied, you know, history. And that history is all about people passing down their knowledge to the next generation. And, you know, we have a saying at jurors I came across in an article, it's a, it's a tribute to Gustav Mahler. And it is tradition is not the worship of Ashis, but the preservation of fire. And that's exactly what we're trying to do. We're trying to pass on that fire, that passion to the next generation to keep our legacy going. Well, Stephanie, my final question is the luxury item question, which I ask, oh my guess. So if you were stranded on a deserted island and you can only have one single luxury item, what would that luxury item be? It can't be any form of air or water transportation to get you off that island or anything that requires mobile service. You can call somebody to get you off that island. It's just you on this lonely island. You're all by yourself, but you have one single luxury item with you. What would that be? Well, you know, I think, probably going to hate me seeing this, but the biggest luxury I think that we all crave at the moment is time. So when you're saying about being in a, a deserted island, you know, all by myself, I thought, oh, that's a luxury in itself. You're that ability to sit with your own thoughts. And I immediately thought of the pile of books that I want to read, but never really have the time to. One of those books is by an author called Vikram Seth, and it's called The Citicle Boy. And it's a massive book. I've only ever managed to get a quarter of the way through it and then something has happened. And so that would be my luxury item. Is the luxury of time, but I would also want to have one of our jurors' collector series there. So the jurors' 37 year old blended malt. I would sip that whilst reading this book. And then hopefully the rescue team will come just as I finished the last drop of whiskey and the last page. Stephanie McLeod, Director of Blending Scotch Whiskey at Bacardi. Thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item. Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure. That's it for this episode of The Luxury Item Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this useful and entertaining, I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague. I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And while you're there, be sure to rate and review us on Apple podcasts. It really helps other listeners find us. The luxury item podcast is a production of Silver Tone Consulting. I'm your host, Scott Kerr. Until next time. [BLANK_AUDIO]