S16 E08: Maribel Lieberman, Founder and CEO of MarieBelle New York

[Music] You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. [Music] Being to bar chocolate has taken the US market by storm as small businesses offer unique flavors crafted by a single maker who controls the entire production process from sourcing raw cacao beans to molding the final bar. World-renowned New York-based luxury chocolate retailer and manufacturer, Marie Bell, had the idea of sourcing cacao beans directly from Honduras long before being to bar became trendy. My guest on the luxury item is Marie Bell Lieberman, entrepreneur, chocolate tier, and founder of the luxury chocolate brand, Marie Bell, New York, known for fusing serious cacao craft with treating chocolates as art objects. Marie Bell began selling homemade candies as a child in Honduras, later emigrating to the US and studying fashion at Parsons School of Design in New York before discovering chocolate as her true medium. In the early 2000s, she launched Marie Bell in the Soho neighborhood of Manhattan, which has since grown into an international luxury brand with boutiques in New York and Japan, celebrated for its artisanal techniques, visually intricate ganache designs, and high quality Latin America cacao. Welcome to the luxury item, Marie Bell. Hello Scott, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for joining me. You know, the timing of this is perfect. It's a little after Valentine's Day about a week or week and a half after Valentine's Day, which for you and chocolate makers is like your Super Bowl or World Cup, if you will. So I think the timing is good. How did it go? How did it go with this Valentine's Day? I mean, Valentine's Day is always, we always wait for that day and in this a few weeks before it, because it is ego's crazy. We have lines of people buying chocolates and yeah, it went fantastic. We actually we did better than last year. Were there any trends that you saw this year at the boutique? You know, I mean, my customer always comes to look for something new, you know, so I always create something new, you know, something packaging, some flavors. So, I mean, I go with the trends when I create products, I go with the trends that was going on, you know, was not only in my shop at what goes on in the world, in the eating, in the ingredients. But the people are consuming today was good and I always try to introduce something new every year. And chocolate isn't a trend or a hobby for you. It's deeply rooted in your heritage, your journey from selling sweets as a child in Honduras, where cacao literally grew in your backyard to redefining the art of chocolate has become a powerful story of resilience, culture and craftsmanship. Could you talk about how the environment shaped your earliest memories of food and entrepreneurship? You know, it's funny because when you are little, you don't, you just do things and you don't, you don't believe that's going to go farther when you are an adult. But in my case, you know, growing up in Honduras, chocolate was more than just a treat. It was part of my daily life. We used to roast it, roast the beans and ground it and drink it just like coffee. And I happily remember how cacao beans were, where I mean, this smell when they were being roasted was amazing. And we always had a cup of chocolate in the morning of hot chocolate. And it was more like coffee, not mixed with milk or anything, you know. And when I started my first business at the age of eight, I wasn't schooled, you know. I come from a family of eight kids, you know. And I was the youngest one. And you know, we grew up very independent because my mother didn't have time to give so much attention to every one of us. But, you know, there was some girls selling candies, just for, you know, reselling candies. Okay. So I said, oh, you know, we used to have very small allowance a day. So I said, you know, I'm going to make some caramel. And I asked my mom to give me the sugar in the butter and that's how I started my business. And I realized then that fresh ingredients always are going to be the winners because I was selling my caramel faster than the candies from the other girls. And then the spirit of entrepreneurial will come in me, you know, I had that since then. And you originally came to New York to study fashion at Parsons School of Design and later spent five years in the fashion industry. And at what point did you realize your real canvas might be chocolate rather than clothing? It was, well, I came to New York. Yes, I came to New York to study fashion. And I love, I always love fashion. And, you know, I always follow in the also, you know, paying attention was going on in the fashion industry. However, you know, when I graduated and started working in the fashion industry, I didn't find the fulfilling. But this is at the time when I met my artist husband, you know, I realized that there were other things that I like. And I started just cooking at home for him and for me and buying exotic ingredients from all the different cultures that are in New York that I'm exposed to. And that's what I love. I love not so much about cooking, you know, but it's about experimenting other ingredients and making my own. And that's how I found that food was my, was in my heart. So that's, you know, the story of chocolate comes from first from cookie, I'm a chef. I'm not only a chocolate here, but I'm a chef. So, did your experience in fashion and illustration influence the way you think about chocolate as an object of design and not just something to eat? Yes, of course, you know, and this is the reason why I think my brand has become successful is because, you know, there is one mind creating the recipes and creating the packaging. I have that creation creativity in me. And, you know, of course, the fashion in me is still there, you know, and I just, for me, when I create a package, I think of, you know, somebody very elegant carrying their box. It's not in making it look timeless and something fun and that's, it goes with the fashion for me when I create a package. And your first New York storefront was running Lunette, which is French for glasses and chocolate. It was a tiny, eclectic boutique in the Nolita neighborhood of Manhattan that combined handmade chocolates with designer eyewear of all things. What do you handle on the chocolate side of the concept? So, so, you know, my best friend, Selima from Selima Optique, she's the creator of Selima Optique. We always wanted to open something together when Nolita started becoming very trendy. And then we said, OK, let's open the store. But I didn't have a lot of money to spend. So, then we decided to rent the space and divide the space. And then she would sell the chocolates. I mean, she would sell the, the, the, Lunette, the glasses. And I would sell the chocolate. So, that's how the name came, you know, Lunette. And, you know, since she was already very known in the fashion industry, you know, all the fashion people came to, to see the Lunette chocolate. So, were you already looking at this as like a proof of concept before launching the dedicated Maribel shop in Soho? No, you know, in a lot of people thought that we were doing a marketing, I mean, investigations to see how it worked. But no, that was not the, the idea of the idea of Maribel. I mean, actually, after September 11, you know, the boutique Lunette chocolate opened October 2000. And September 2001 was September 11, which was very, very bad for all the businesses in New York, especially here in this area of Nolita and Soho. So, there was, there were a lot of spaces vacant, you know, the people that closed their galleries. The space where I am used to be a gallery that closed after September 11. So, I decided in December to make, to take the space for a pop-up shop, you know, only for December. I mean, now is very fashionable, the pop-up shop, sorry, I was actually. Yeah, way ahead of time. Way ahead of time. And, and I remember just seeing a very blank space with white walls. And the first thing I did is paint the walls in blue, you know. And, and of course I didn't have, it was a big space for a chocolate store. I didn't have the money and I was not going to go and buy furniture for space that I was just going to be there for one month. So my next door neighbor had an antique shop. So I went to tell him I can sell your furniture. Please let me use some of your furniture. I send them to you when they come to me. So anyway, I started with a lot of antique furniture and then my chocolates. When people came in, they thought it was an antique store, but we chocolate. Right. So at that time, I didn't have a name. First I put it, Lunette's a chocolate. But then I said, I don't have Lunette here. So then I said, maybe a chocolate sand lunette. But then it sounds cute, but nobody knows why I put it in that. So then I said, you know what? Let's do Mary Bell. So that's how it started Mary Bell. So we ended up December very good. I mean, I opened on December 15. And I remember opening my doors at 2 o'clock. And I didn't even have a cash register. I had a shoe box to collect the money. And by 7 o'clock, I had $2,000 worth of chocolates that I sold. So I said, oh my god, this is great. So anyway, I finished December. And then I said, I extended my pop-up shop through Valentine's. And after Valentine's, I said, you know, I made a negotiation with the landlord. And then I said, OK, I like to stay for one year. And then it's not a little by little like that. Around the time around the Territax in 9/11, the city was facing a sharp economic downturn, shaken consumer confidence, and severely disrupted tourism and foot traffic. And many of the households pulled back on discretionary purchases. So what happened around that time? Like what made you decide to move forward with the chocolate boutique instead of waiting? You know what happened? That chocolate is just like wine. When people are-- want to treat themselves, they buy chocolate. Don't buy that dress or a bag, because-- So I was in that type of business where people are down. They find something like a treat. So I was not afraid of opening a boutique, paying a high rent, because I proved to the sales in December and in Valentine's. But at that time, I didn't know that chocolate is also seasonal. But when the summer comes, the sales are much less. But that pushed me to say, oh, maybe I should wholesale. And that's when I started selling my first customer was Nima Marcus. And I was very lucky that the vice president of Nima walked into my store and said, oh, I have been seeing your write-ups about Lunette's chocolate. I went to your store there, now I come. And then he says, do you wholesale? And I said, of course, we do. And that's how I started, yeah. Good timing is everything, as they say. Yeah, timing, yeah. Yes. And your chocolates are immediately recognized and will be close to the artwork. And the way you present them, each ganache square is topped with cocoa-based illustration, silk screened onto the chocolate, abstract arc, quirky female characters, fashion motifs, fabric-like patterns, cityscapes, et cetera. And the collections are often themed. How do you decide what themes or visuals belong on a chocolate? Yeah. You know, my first collection of 10 designs, it was actually the artwork of my husband. And he was not so happy at that time because I don't design chocolates. My artist is for hanging on the walls, not on the-- anyway, but he was very happy at the end afterwards when everything was translated on the chocolate. So I said it, we tend to tend of his designs. And then a few months later or a year later, I decided to introduce more fashionable images, because I was in the fashion industry. But my illustrations are more like-- they're not cartoonish, they're more realistic. And I didn't want that. I wanted something playful. So that's when I started, you know, interviewing different artists. And I found these artists that are still-- I mean, this is 2002 that I found these artists. And we're still working together. She's Japanese. And I gave her the direction. So I said, you know, I want a woman with a lot of energy, working women in New York. I want accessories. I want-- you know, so that's my first collection. Then when I go-- so when I go to the themes of Christmas or Valentine's-- so I want people to know the inspiration of this image. So I write a little poem, you know, like Mrs. Presso. It's a woman very energetic, you know, working, fashionable, you know, because I believe, you know, a woman should always look so good, but you know, always working. And so anyway, so every little chocolate has a little-- I mean, image has a little story. And that's the difference that I put from all the companies that they do the art work on it. It's not just putting colors, but putting a story about it. So have the illustration themes changed over the years to appeal to a younger customer? You know, I started because my lay husband's artwork is more contemporary. So I started using more of his work, because I feel the younger generations are looking for more contemporary artwork, and they are attracted to that. And you have a chocolate collection celebrating the lunar new year honoring the year of the horse? We started doing about 2020, actually. You know, because we have so many cultures in New York and it's a why not, you know, and I feel that introducing, you know, not only our traditions, but other cultures traditions is a way to know of his shoulder, to get to know his shoulder, you know, because we are all the same. And I think knowing about his shoulder is very important. So the lunar new year, we started since we do our chocolates, which I have three stores in Japan. And I also have a website in Hong Kong. So that's when the idea came when we started selling in Hong Kong. I said, OK, let's do the lunar new year, because it's a huge holiday there. And then I didn't think-- I started there only, but then I didn't think that they would be so popular. So we started making it here. And then it's amazing how the attraction, because there aren't too many sweet companies that are doing this. So you said that storytelling is at the heart of your brand. And like any luxury brand, it's perceived value comes from its story and emotional meeting. So how does every chocolate flavor and visual turn into stories that customers can see and taste? You know, OK, so for me, the artwork on the chocolate tells the story. And do I do this for fun? I mean, I'm telling a story for me. When you say-- let's say you're going to put something in your mouth. You want to know where this comes from. And you become connected to that what you're going to have. You become connected. So for me, when you open a box of chocolate and you see all these artwork, and then you take the insert and you tell each design has the little story, you know. You don't rush to eat it, but you actually become connected. Then you lift it, you look at it, you contemplate, your eyes are feasting. And then your palate savers the great ingredients. So you have become connected. I have customers that have come-- my customers for 23, 25 years since I was open. And that, to me, is the power of storytelling. I want to talk about the cocoa prices. They've really hit historic highs and new US tariffs on chocolate and related imports or squeezing manufacturers, margins. How have the rising cost of cocoa and tariffs impacted your business? It has definitely impact a lot. However, as I am an entrepreneur, I have so much entrepreneurial spirit. I see challenges. as opportunities for growth, I think each paying teaches us valuable lessons that can benefit us for the future. You know, while rising prices is one option, we want to avoid making that customer pay. So, you know, we come and create something smaller, you know, a smaller package, but focus is, you know, we focus more in solutions, creating a small package, products, analyzing our best sellers, discontinuing the not so successful items. And additionally, we invest in marketing campaigns for those top items to maximize their visibility. So, this approach really helps us to navigate challenges and maintaining the market prices. So that's how we have been doing all this time to not to really raise prices, but just create a smaller items, you know. Yeah, so you don't want to deny them access. You just need imagining what you have. And with uncertain economic conditions, we're seeing consumers being much more discerning about discretionary purchases, but still crave the concept of treating themselves, especially younger consumers. They're having their own lipstick effect, if you will. They're cutting big purchases, but still splurging on small luxuries. Are you seeing that trend playing out in your shop where younger customers are coming in for just a quick indulgence of chocolate ganache or siapat chocolate at the kekhal bar? Yeah, yeah. Well, young, younger, uh, generally younger customers are more selective with their spending. And unfortunately, I love creating a small package items. I learned this in the Japanese, in my Japanese customer, they like a small package, you know. So I learned that from my stores in Japan. And by offering a variety of these beautifully designed items, we cater to diverse tastes and budgets, ensuring that all these young customers and as well as the older, you know, can have access to all of this, you know. But I feel that doing, doing, for every budget, doing things for, for these, for budgets, I feel that we maintain the luxury, luxury and special, for a special purchase. So what does luxury mean to you in the context of chocolate today, especially when many brands are also emphasizing high quality kekhal, origin stories and artisanal craftsmanship that's proof of premium? Well for me, luxury starts with quality ingredients. That's definitely has to be the foundation. When you use top ingredients, it's easier to make a delicious recipe, of course. When it comes to chocolate, flavor and texture, additionally elements with like butter, you know, that we use cream and natural fruit flavors. Without any preservatives, it's very important, you know. I also believe that the final presentation is crucial. So I ensure really each item is packaged in a visually timeless and elegant package. And I think this commitment I started since, since day one, when I opened my boutique and it had work. And it maintained me with the, with my packaging, you know, it's, it's not a trend package, it's more like a timeless package, you know. So it's, it maintains from, you know, from 25 years ago, it still looked elegant today. I'm sure most consumers still do not know how kekhal is grown or chocolate produced as consumer-seek products that delight their senses and align with their ethics and wellness goals. They're folding their values into their definition of premium or luxury. How does Maribel make sustainability and ethical sourcing part of your story? Well, over the years, we built relationship with the small farmers. At one point I was making my chocolates here, my kekhal, you know, from being to bar. I was buying kekhal from women in small, small farmers, women in Honduras, El Salvador, in Nicaragua. And about that step after COVID, because a lot of farmers lost their farms and any was challenging to make to make the chocolate here is, you know, I mean, you know how everything went. So, so I found a company in Costa Rica that used to be based in Honduras that would go and do the sourcing for me by the beans, process their chocolate in Costa Rica and send it already to me, you know, for already made. So that approach has helped me a lot because I'm still supporting those farmers. And then we also buy chocolate from Colombia and Ecuador. And we make sure that we source from companies that are doing the practice of sustainability. I think it's very important, you know, because without them we're nothing, you know. So anyway, that's how we keep our sustainability in the company. See, the people that come into the shops, the guests, do they ask you about the sourcing? Are you seeing more of that? Were there actually asking you at the end? No, I mean, our package says, you know, this is from Honduras, but it doesn't read, people in my brand there aren't too many questions about that. They, you know, one of my star items is the ganache and also the chocolate. And so they're more like, you know, the taste, how is it? Yeah. Yeah. You know, on any given day, but probably mostly weekends, the sidewalks are filled with tourists and destination shoppers and fashion-forward New Yorkers browsing the luxury flagships and stores and resell shops of Soho. And your flagship location on Broom Street in Soho is prime for walking customers. What do you think luxury fashion boutiques can learn from you when it comes to fostering emotional connections with customers? Well, I believe the luxury fashion boutiques can learn a lot from my approach to encouraging an emotional connection with customers. It's about creating an experience that goes beyond the product. Unfortunately, to be in the business of chocolate, why? Because, you know, chocolate, where it's a, everybody loves chocolate. And I mean, you know, to be in this business in the store, the store has an incredible energy and magic. When customers enter, I smile instantly, appears on their face. I mean, I see the happiness that happens to them and then they eagerly browse around the store to every corner. They really want to take something with them. And I think it evokes a nostalgic feeling on them, reminded them of their childhood within, you know, their child within. And so as a result, they want to take something from the store to get that magic, that connection that they had in, you know, in that store. I feel this is something that other boutiques could learn. You earlier talking about your store in Japan and your first international shop opened in Kyoto in 2012. You now have locations in Japan covering Ginza Tokyo and Osaka. The brand has also expanded into Dubai and Korea. What have you learned from your international customers about luxury and taste that's different than in the US? Yeah, from my international customers, I learned that luxury taste came very across cultures, in Japan, for instance. There's a deep appreciation for aesthetics and craftsmanship, where the presentation of a product is as important as the quality itself. Customers often seek harmony in a product, you know. And this is fight for me. This is the reason why my product has been very successful. A blend of beauty and flavors, emphasizing not just indulgence, but also on the experience. The US consumer tends to focus more on bold flavors and innovative combinations. This inside has really helped me to refine our offerings, you know, to cater to diverse taste while maintaining the core of the brand. You know, when I started experimenting, let's say the matcha, I was doing it only for Japan and then I introduced it here. So, you know, all these cross flavors and then you introduce it. And then it goes, the matcha became very popular here in the United States. So much that in Japan, you can't find matcha because everything is being exported. So yeah, I feel that. that I learned that from the customer in Japan. And I feel as the future expansion, I'm looking for the Asian market because actually chocolate is new, it's relatively new in Asia. It's only like 25 years old. And I feel there is a big opportunity, just like, I mean, hundreds of years ago there were only drinking tea. And then coffee was introduced. Nestle actually introduced coffee. And now it's coffee and tea. So now I want to introduce coffee tea and chocolate. So I want to one of those nestless introduction for the hot chocolate. - How do you keep pace with evolving consumer tastes and priorities around chocolate? I mean, you just look at the Dubai chocolate trend. It arrived out of nowhere to become this must have indulgence last year. And now it's fading into obscurity. How do you know when to embrace new trends in the hopes they stick around for more than just a few months? - You know, I mean, I always know when he said trend. I remember when the Macaron, remember the Macaron trends and people, "Oh, Mary Bell, you need to do Macaron." You know, I mean, and I knew he was a trend. And you know what? I think what I always start, and I love the Dubai bar. We some of them, you know, some of them are not so good. But I love it. But just the fact that everybody is doing it, you know, and I know he was gonna die. I know, you know, because, I mean, even the bodegas and the fast food, I mean, they were selling the Dubai bar. And I said, "Oh my God, you know, this is gonna die." And I'm not gonna put my efforts on creating it because so no, I'm gonna stick to what I know I do best, you know? And I continue with my timeless designs, my, you know, I'm known for my designs, my ganache, my hot chocolate. And I stick to that. And that doesn't mean that I don't wanna bring something new, but I'm going to bring something new, something that I create from my heart. And, you know, and I see the influence of all the culture, but not necessarily I'm gonna be doing, you know, in Spanish they call it Joseph Follower. I'm not gonna be. (faintly speaking) So Maribel, my final question is the luxury item question, which I ask all my guests. So if you was stranded on a deserted island and you could only have one single luxury item with you, what would that luxury item be? It can't be any form of air or water transportation to get you off that island or anything that requires mobile service. So you can call somebody to get you off that island. It's just you on this lonely island, but you have one luxury item with you. What would that one luxury item be? - Well, I mean, that's a hard question. - Yeah, now. - I was thinking if I have, I mean, I love classical music, okay? I love Baroque, especially Baroque music, like Baroque people, the, you know, Monteverd, the, and you know, this music really, when I hear it, it just transports me, you know, to a beautiful place, a dreamy place, you know? So I feel that I would love to have Wi-Fi, to have access to that music. (laughing) - Maribel Lieberman, founder and CEO of Maribel, New York. Thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item. - Thank you so much, Scott. It's a pleasure. (upbeat music) - That's it for this episode of the Luxury Item Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this useful and entertaining, I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague. I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And while you're there, be sure to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps other listeners find us. The Luxury Item Podcast is a production of Silver Tone Consulting. I'm your host, Scott Kerr, until next time. 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