S15 E04: Sam Ioannidis, Managing Director of The Plaza Hotel

[Music] You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. The Plaza Hotel has been a New York City icon for over a hundred years. Through its longevity, the Plaza has achieved near mythical status, immortalized by F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby, Neil Simon's Plaza Suite, Hitchcock's North by Northwest, and of course, Home Alone 2. You're just as likely to spot well-heeled visitors in the lobby as you are to bump into shopping bag-toting upper reciders, stopping in for afternoon tea or a drink at the iconic Palm Court. The Plaza, as we know it today, has changed hands a few times in the nearly 120 years it's been open, passing from the original operating company to owners like Conrad Hilton, Western Hotels and Resorts, and for a time Donald Trump. Since 2005, it's been managed by Fairmont Hotels and Resorts, meaning the hotel's reputation for outstanding service has even more backing behind it. My guest on the luxury item is Sam Ionitis, managing director of the Plaza Hotel in New York. Sam brings over three decades of global experience in luxury hospitality, having built a distinguished career with four seasons hotels and resorts across the United States, Europe, and the Middle East. Sam joined as managing director of the Plaza last year, and has since led the iconic property through a series of strategic initiatives contributing to improved performance, brand positioning, and overall financial success. Welcome to the luxury item, Sam. Thank you, Scott. Good morning and happy to be with you today. Same here. I'm so thrilled to have you on. You know, the Plaza has always been a place where people know it, people want to go there. It's the ultimate global calling card. It really speaks to the history of wealth in New York, the history of celebrity in New York. It's also one of New York's most beautiful buildings and most recognizable to you. Like, what makes the Plaza Hotel so unique in the world of luxury hospitality? As you said, Scott, it's a very, very special place and we're so intertwined with what is New York and what makes New York special in the Plaza. As always done that, you know, since 1907 when the building opened up and we, you know, Vanderbilt was the first registered guest, which I still have is ticket on my wall here. It just brings in so many memories, even prior to me coming to the Plaza, everywhere around the globe that I would travel people talked about New York and somehow the Plaza name comes up to it, whether they got married here or they had a special occasion or they came for tea or they had, you know, champagne in the champagne bar. There's always a memory that is striking that I don't believe any other property that I've ever known of has this much of a legacy. So the memories that people have had and also as guests walk in with all of the plethora of movies that we filmed and, you know, from home alone, which is quite famous and we've done a package for and we continue to create those memories. Fathers and families bring in their kids to do the home alone package or, you know, the Eloise. And so we continue in what was rich in history and moving it forward to be relevant today and continuing the legacy and the luxury feel of what people would expect coming to New York. And I believe the last time you were in yourself, guests walking and taking photos of the outside, but also on the inside and their jaws drop open. And at any moment of the day, I walk in there, I walk down to the lobby just to watch that experience where else can that piece of special. And from when you talk about luxury, that memory of luxury or memories and moments create luxury at every level of life and we're very proud to be part of that in the history of New York and the plaza. Yeah, you were saying that the, you know, the doors opened in 1907. I think it started construction a couple years before that it actually replaced an earlier plaza hotel that opened at the end of the 19th century. And at the turn of the century, that area of New York City around Central Park South, Fifth Avenue in 59th Street was really the premier luxury hotel district. So how did the plaza want to define its brand when it opened and who were they marketing to? Yeah, it's from a global sense and from from the point where from the time it opened, as you said, it opened and closed and we was redone a few times. And this was and it started creating its own history with their first hotel that had taxis in front of the hotel. We're first hotel that had independent bathrooms, which was a very luxurious thing which today we wouldn't even think twice about. But back in the day to have, you know, everybody was sharing bathrooms, not not at the plaza. So there was a lot of, you know, amenities and features and services that were implemented that then became the common norm in any building and any hotel and any hospitality. So we're, you know, the guests would come to the plaza and not New York and now it's people come to the plaza in New York. So it became synonymous with the destination. It became synonymous with the plaza with that luxury feel and now we're we're very proud to continue in that in that experience. You joined as managing director of the plaza hotel in October of last year previously you had an impressive 30 year tenure at the four seasons hotels and resorts journeying through various properties throughout North America and overseas. The four seasons is renowned for epitomizing luxury hospitality. I would imagine it's become part of your DNA. So it aligns nicely with the high service standards of Fairmont hotels and resorts which manages the plaza. What excited you most about taking this role in New York City's iconic grand down? Well, I lived in New York. So was number one. It was exciting to come back to the, you know, one of the best cities on the globe and for somebody that travels this so much and lived in so many places around the around the world. When you make a statement like where would you love to live in you say New York? It says it all through experience. What drew me was the plaza. What drew me was, you know, what what I could do in, you know, to to accent to to move forward to be part of something so special like the plaza. So we're very proud that we have great owners, guitar hospitality that are invested in the property. They're also extremely proud to move, move the product forward. So it was exciting. The fact of a being part of the plaza and the team that has done an exceptional job to keep things moving. We have a team of that's been here for 30 years and we love to celebrate, you know, their their their anniversaries as we go because they created the stories. I have people, you know, that used to be employees here and come back to reminisce or C.A. I was a banquet waiter and, you know, in the in the 50s and and being part of that story. But being part of something that we could, you know, take luxury to the next level to support what the future generations want and need from travel and so forth. So I'm excited to be part of that. I'm excited to be part of a team that is really, really, really proud of the hotel, which is is a rarity to have. You talk to a plaza employee and they're so proud to be here. And that in itself fuels my own fire of, you know, what we can do to make the experiences even better and to make future memories and not just live on the legacy. Right. So we're proud to have the legacy, but we want to we want to continue to become relevant and continue our guest to come and have those experiences. So very, very happy to be part of this experience. I was reading an article recently by a top consult. You might have been McKenzie about how the world's best hotels deliver exceptional customer experience. They quoted GM of a luxury hotel who said, our facility is our stage and guests are paying for a performance. Do you agree with that? Very much so. You know, throughout my experiences in life, no matter where you are and what you read, guests very rarely, you know, right about or discuss the physical element of a property, you know, globally. But they do talk about the experience of the employee or employees of a specific restaurant hotel have provided. So it's always been that, you know, hospitality has been in my blood since I was, you know, young, you know, being Greek hospitality is a, you know, it's part of our DNA. And, you know, we have a special word for that in Greece, Philotimo. And here we bring that we bring that to the stage. You know, you come to a place that we're part of the ambiance, we're part of that experience, we're part of the reason why, you know, that special happens. We're very proud that we have a historic iconic hotel that has a tremendous amount of history. We have more backer at Crystal, chandeliers and any other place in New York. But nobody talks about that. But they talk about the experiences, they talk about who served them, how they served them, how they made them feel special. And we are part of that. And I think that's, you know, that we always strive every day to make, to make special happen. So we continue in that. What's your approach to keeping the plaza hotel relevant and forward thinking? You have to listen Scott. Listening is a, your guests that have been coming and the new guests that are coming and listening to guests. reading, understanding, we don't want to be trendsetters. We're not a trendy place, but travel has changed. As your needs have changed in the past, as we said, we were the first to tell that had bathrooms. OK, what's new? What do people want today? What are the connectivity issues that are important to them? What are the reasons they travel? Are they business or pleasure? And how then do we ensure that that experience, when they come to the hotel, is completely recognized under that? So we have a lot of business guests that come in, so experience of service, a great fast breakfast, a proper gym and a spa where they can relax when they have a moment, as opposed to what about the family that comes in, and how do we stay relevant for them, because they have young children. And so what are the activities? How we can support that? So a tremendous concierge and the ability to get into access to places where some other properties can. So it is about being relevant. It's not, you know, the beds will always be comfortable. We always take a look to make sure that the quality is always there, but what we do and work with our work, with our teams to be able to deliver. But at the end of the day, it's about listening and what people want, because if you stop listening, how then can you deliver? People would just choose something else. So we spend a lot of time every morning, speaking about guests and their interactions, and we take note. And as we look towards the future, what are the things that we can incorporate? And a lot of great ideas come from our staff, and a lot of great ideas come from our guests, and how we move with the world to more relevant experience at the plaza. You know, it seems today the most powerful differentiator in the service sector is a culture of excellence, powered by staff that can actually anticipate customers' needs, exceed expectations, create cherished memories, and make it all feel seamless. Luxury properties are seeing more return from investing in this type of culture. So as a veteran of the luxury hospitality business, what are some of your strategies for creating a healthy supportive and winning service culture? That's a conversation we'd have to have 10 episodes. It's like making dinner. There's so many ingredients into that equation. It's not a one-size-fits-all what you can do. Being global, different cultures, different from the working team to guest is important to understand. Everybody has a different need. When it comes to New York, it's identifying what is special about New York, and how do you make sure that the team stays authentic, and delivers authentic service without ascribed, this is what you say and what you do. Because that's not what it's about. And if you're going to strive to create service or service experience, it needs to come from the heart. So being able to fuel that fire from all the things that we do in the heart of the house of our property, which is to make sure it's clean, it's well-capped, we've got great locker rooms, we've got great food in the cafeteria, we have open forms to listen, we have open forms to first suggestion, which we do every day from every single department, and listening to the team to make sure that they feel pride in where they work, so that when they're with a guest, they show and extend that same pride. Walking the talk, I'm a little bit old school, so I feel meeting guests, walking through the lobby, enjoying their experiences, and listening to them as well. So the team sees that the leadership does the same thing, and that also inspires them. So it's not, it's a very long answer to all the things that you need to do to make sure that the experience that the team has is second to none, because they're the ones that go on then to create the experiences for the guest. And there's a lot, you know, from training, we do a tremendous amount of training, and we're training despite the fact that the team is tenured, and they have tremendous experiences. Again, being back to relevance, how can we serve better with the things that we do? So there's a lot that goes into that to ensure, but the most important thing, Scott, is the authenticity of the service delivery, and we strive very, very hard to ensure that, and we have a tremendous amount of feedback from our guests, which I enjoy, and I recognize our staff by writing back, where guests come in, make a comment about the, you know, Joe the Bellman, and you know, Paul at the door, and so forth, and we recognize it back. And I always tell them, listen, imagine that the life of these individuals, the our CEOs, they run their companies, I have a tremendous amount of wealth and travel, and they stop for a minute to make a comment and write about you and write to me, or the hotel, you know, Joe made my day. And so we recognize and feel that fire of recognition to keep it ongoing. And it has blossomed. I remember my first, you know, a few weeks here, where we'd have one or two, and now we're having 15 to 20 a day, because we fuel that fire of inspiration, and the feedback from the guest, and recognition, and striving for authenticity. So when you have regular meetings with your staff, which I'm assuming you do, whether it's every day or every week, what are the ways that you get feedback from them, get ideas from them, that you turn into, you know, a new way of thinking about things that that that had been done in the past? Are they enthusiastic to share those things? I mean, how do you get those ideas from them? Well, they're super excited. You know, we talk about legacy and how important it is for some of the programs that are so important to the hotel in each of the areas, where there be, you know, guest coming in for tea, which is one of our most popular experiences here. Well, how can we make tea better? How can we make it more relevant? And, you know, you have, you know, 30 plus employees between the kitchen and the front service that have, and, you know, served the 300 plus people a day that come there. And what are they saying? What are they doing? What are they eating? What's not? What's the feedback? And it is about being on the floor and having conversations. It is making sure that the team is very comfortable at all levels and that you're approachable and that you can be approached for good and bad in either way. And we have open forums where I call them coffee with Sam. So once a month, I have coffee with Sam with my leadership team, you know, which are assistant managers to managers and assistant division heads. And we have, what can we do? What are our biggest concerns currently? And how do we solve them? To what can we do differently to stay ahead? And where have you traveled to? And what have you seen? And what are the things that we can implement in our hotel? What have you read about that we can implement in the hotel that's different that continues in our in our future of successes? And then I do the same thing with our line stuff. So we have coffee with Sam and there's a representative from each of the areas. And we've created the comfort zone where they can provide feedback back to you. And that's really, really important in anywhere in life. It's a relationship. And if you, you need to be able to take the constructive comments as well as you need to take and ensure that we take the feedback that they have and you fix things or that they see things that you've implemented. And there's employees now that are so proud to say, by the way, have we ever considered, you know, to do this? This morning, for example, I was in room service and we're walking through and we're looking at the tables and somebody said, hey, listen, if we ever thought of changing that this is a service member and he says, every ever thought of changing the flower, I think we could do this and this and it would enhance the table and the flower would live longer. And, you know, so now we're going to do that. And then others see that and they take more pride in the place that they work at when they know that they've established something that is special, something that is new and something that will help the experience of the guests or help how they do their job. Do you ever find yourself acting as the chief culture officer at the plaza? Oh, you have to, you know, in our, and you know, my position has changed drastically from from the years of what general managers used to do, managing directors, what they used to do. I think in every career and everybody's business today, we're very different. You have to be a mom, you have to be a dad, you have to be a therapist, you have to be, you wear many, many hats, you know, depending on your audience, you know, we deal with our, with our owners and our asset teams and it's a, it's there. But I do believe the comment thread is authenticity and the comment thread is being open and the comment thread is, you know, take information and deal with it and do something with it so that things may be able to be improved, whether it be from a relationship side or service delivery or product. And so yeah, things have changed and they will continue to. And if we, if you, if you stop as any leader stops to, you know, or continues in their own way of leading, you will, you eventually become stale. You know, today we have Gen Y Gen Z Gen X, you know, we, we need to be listening. And you know, because not only from an employee standpoint, but also from a guest standpoint, if we stop listening, and stop reacting to, or being proactive to the needs of, of, of guest or staff, you ultimately can fail. On the flip side, do you think that customers' demands have changed post pandemic versus pre pandemic? Oh, definitely. I think the value proposition is more than it's ever been. Unique experiences are more than they ever, ever were. People tend to, not to be so trendy. And, you know, what they're looking to do, they're looking for that authentic experience. And, you know, being at the plaza gives us that, you know, being in New York with a place where right and, you know, by Central Park, where right on the best shopping globally right off of Fifth Avenue. And so being part of all the history, all the emotion, all of the excitement of one of the best cities on the globe, it gives us a lot of opportunity to ensure that it is special. That it is special for sure. - The Plaza Hotel has been updated in recent years and underwent a significant $450 million renovation that lasted over three years. What have been some of the more notable renovations and enhancements at the Plaza? - Well, it's gone through so many transformations, Scott. It's like our own body's going to the gym, you know? (laughing) You know, we gain weight and lose weight quickly. With the Plaza, you know, there's an element where it's so special. It's one of the most photographed buildings, you know, globally. It's been a statement for New York. When you see literature from any sort, you see it in New York, you see a picture of the Plaza. You see the Statue of Liberty, you see the Plaza, and we're very proud to be part of that. And it's important that we continue in that. And so whatever we're looking at as we move forward is, how do we celebrate the architecture? How do we celebrate the history of the property as we move forward? And we are, you know, in plans of how do we accentuate what the Plaza was known for and how do we move that forward for the future? So celebrating from, you know, not only the architecture, but what are the new services that we would need, we would need to be doing, you know, for the future to address the future travelers that are there. But there's being, again, having owners that put a lot of pride in this hotel and money to be able to drive that, speaks to the relationship of how we're able to drive the service and experience and making them proud as well. But there's been a lot that we even currently do. We spend a lot of time, I walk with my team three times a week to guest rooms and checking underneath the beds and the engineers there, housekeeping is there and how do we keep the product, you know, tremendously clean and pristine because, you know, as we all get older, we need a little bit more makeup and a little bit more lipstick, you know, to move on. And so the guests, they certainly have to have a clean exceptional product. And we are what we are. We celebrate that, but we have a good team that keeps that up. - Going on the inside of the plaza, the iconic Palm Court was relaunched in 2014 and then you had a new culinary director takeover and the afternoon tea was reintroduced at the Palm Court which was really a main draw for tourists and New Yorkers alike. Of course, it has a special child-friendly Eloise theme menu for afternoon tea in honor of the hotels, Literary Heroine Eloise. What significance does the Palm Court have as a cultural touchstone of New York City's hospitality, history and high society? - Oh, it is a special room. You just walk through the lobby when you walk in and again, guests are a gasp at what they see, their mouths open up and they're taking pictures. And then the next step is they walk into the area of the Palm Court and it's even further more exasperated with more pictures and more of a view. And it really resonates with the elegance of what the plaza was and what it is today. It is an area where, yes, we've done recently refurbished carpets and so forth by keeping in the theme, celebrating what it is and as opposed to masking what it's not. So we're very proud of that. And it still seems to be, it still is one of our most successful experiences where guests come and you have mom with daughters, the moms that came here before and now they bring their daughters and the daughters bring, you know, you got three generations sitting at a table having tea. We've challenged our culinary and service team to add value to that experience and make it even furthermore a balance between service and product. So we're very, very proud of you know, being able to deliver. And we're always thinking of how much more we can make it special. And you don't necessarily need to have TES, the Eloise experience is there, you know, the family experience and little girls get dressed up with their moms and it's really, really a special moment and the experiences that come back to us are stories and you know, talking about the staff and how they made it special. But it is also, you know, you've got a little, you've got the bar in the center and you have a lot of guests that come in either tourist or locals and just have a drink and watch and look at this beautifully, you know, the ceiling and the architecture and the history in there. And very, very few if not any properties within, you know, North America have that magic. So it is a special room. Now we continue to work hard to make it even more special not restaurant or laurels with the delivery of both the food and the service in the, in the palm port. And another iconic dining destination inside the plaza is the Oak Room, which originally opened its doors in 1907. It's no longer open to the public as a restaurant or bar. It closed its doors in 2011 and the space has been repurposed primarily for private events. The Oak Room is a cherished part of the plaza's heritage and its original design elements and murals preserved for event guests. Are there plans to open the Oak Room and the Oak Bar to the general public anytime soon? You know, Scott, I love going into the Oak Room and just sitting on the bank hat and absorbing the feel and, you know, wondering who sat here and where. Because this is where big business came, deals were made for the city. And it continues to have that powerful feeling. We're very fortunate that we do a lot of events with CPS in this area and we have a lot of weddings from celebrities and the alike. We recently did the 50 year anniversary for a settlement life. So we have a lot of very high profile guests that are all enjoying the space and what it has to offer because it is magical. But yes, we're considering at this point of how do we bring that back and make it part of the community and part of the hotel. So as well as that our hotel residents that live here can have another place to enjoy, to add value to the plaza and add another, you know, bring back a little bit more relevant than it was, right? Whether we wouldn't change or we'd celebrate the architecture but how do we make it a place that today you want to go to a great bar. So yes, we have aspirations to do that. So stay tuned. - You know, we were talking a little bit about experiences and despite the luxury industry confronting a slow down, luxury experiences are outperforming other segments of the luxury market and Bane. But their latest report shows that luxury hospitality remained especially buoyant in Q1 2025 with rising hotel occupancy rates and longer stays, reflecting consumers strong appetite for personalized and memorable experiences. You know, the shift to prioritizing experiences over goods and seeking these unique personalized and emotionally resonant offerings is getting stronger and stronger. Is the plaza providing more curated experience to its guests to meet those demands? - Absolutely. You know, today, today you can have a new hotel that opens up and we've been very fortunate within the city that the existing properties, some existing properties are renovated. There's been some new hotels that come in that have spent a lot of money on creating, you know, a unique or non-beauty. But guests are drawn to experience and, you know, luxury is about delivering on service. So I'm very fortunate. I have an extremely creative sales marketing and PR team where constantly reinventing some programs that we've done in the past that were successful but also thinking of new programs. For example, we've just launched, you know, Christmas in July and everybody thought, well, that's a little bit silly. I'm like, look, Christmas is the most magical time of the year. For New York, we're embroiled in, you know, that experience of New York and people come globally to be part of that at the plaza. And so we did a modification and said, look, let's have Santa do a checkup and see if the kids are not here in ice and giving us six months more at the halfway mark to move. And so we've launched this package. It's running for the next, you know, a couple of days and we were overwhelmed, you know, we decorated the lobby. We have, you know, dancers, the Christmas dancers, we, the Seraphinas, we have Santa here doing story time and it is, and we're doing ice cream in the afternoon. So it is about, you know, yes, how can you curate? How can you make it more special? We see the Eloise Prince. We just did an Eloise, you know, pop up with celebrating the Seraphine University of Eloise so we did a whole bunch of special things with that respect. But we spend, we spend a considerable amount of time, you know, challenging ourselves. What, you know, we just had a meeting yesterday about how can we make the amenity program different and much more unique for our guests coming in. You know, people are away from, they're more healthy, you know, do we need, you know, do we need to continue to do something with chocolate? How can we make it more in New York? We, we're by the Hudson, we have, we're surrounded today by peaches and cherries, which are in season. How do we incorporate that as being part of that? The breweries, the distilleries in New York. So we're very happy to be part in a basket of goods that are, our New York based and that you should be proud to present those from, from that perspective. And same with our, with same with our partners from our limousine services that we have. that are here that know the city well, that do great tours to anybody that can help us to curate what special people want. And they come to us on Ask Us. How can we make our trip to New York special? And that's where we light up. That's where we light up. And we will continue to light up and be ahead of most as we go forward. - What role does social media play in getting all that information out there to draw people into the plaza? - Oh, it's today that's what all people read, especially the newer or younger generation, they're constantly on TikTok, they're constantly on YouTube, they're constantly on Instagram and Facebook and the such. And where to go, where have people gone? So it's important for us again, as we're very tactful and careful of what we put out, because we have to tell a story Scott. You can't just, every day put, here's my new drink. You start to bore guests. You know, luxury is about access. Luxury is about providing a unique experience, but it also should be a story that has a continuation. So we're very careful as we curate programs. Of how do we, how do we put that on our social media channels? So they creates that emotional draw that you'd love to be part of it, but it draws back also into what the plaza is. So Christmas at the plaza won't put it on social media talks and feels about Christmas at the plaza. It's, you know, yes, it's a popup that we're doing. And you know, a program that we're doing for the moment, but it needs to talk, you know, volumes for what is our brand and what is our, what is our feeling as a, as a more, as a bigger picture, as opposed to just, let's put out the new drink, let's take a picture of the burger, let's take, you know, it needs to be very much embroidered into your story and your storytelling. Speaking of that, hotel brands like Fairmont Hotels and Resorts are actively targeting this new wave of young affluent experienced seeking travelers who will account for 83% of hotel guests by 2030. How does a nearly 120 year old iconic luxury property like the plaza, which has a solidified reputation as a place of style, class, and old world sophistication make a play for young affluent guests? That's the secret sauce. But it's going back to what we spoke earlier, it's about being relevant. And you know, we're very pleased that with the Fairmont with the new campaigns that are being brought up, speak about that and speak about the story. So we're able to participate and be part of that and capture the essence of youth, energy, vitality, making special happen that people are wanting and wanting to experience. So you know, it's easy to kind of use the leverage of the brand to be able to do that. So, but it is about, again, it goes back to listening. What a, as much as I speak to some of our guests that have been coming here from a historical sense, I'm also speaking to their kids. I'm listening to what those teens or early 20s have to say, wherever you're being, what do you like? And then again, speaking to our team, it's saying, well, here's some feedback. And the team is doing the same. We're gathering information of what does that younger generation want because that's who we need to appeal to. So whether it's through social media, through the programs that we do, or how have we enhanced the program. And what's that story behind that? So they can say, look, I want to go there. Because there is a balance to, you know, there's so much more experience through the social media platforms, if you recall, perhaps you're younger, but, you know, we have these phones now that are popping up and they're reading everything and experiences are there. So how do we make sure that we're relevant and that story makes sense for them? And it appeals to them. - So Sam, my final question is the luxury item question, which I ask, oh, my guess. So if you were stranded on a deserted island and you can only have one single luxury item with you on that island, what would that luxury item be? It can't be any form of air or water transportation to get you off that island. Or anything that requires mobile service, you can call somebody to get you off that island. It's just you on this lonely island by yourself, nobody else, no boats or people anywhere in sight, just miles and miles and miles of ocean. What would that one single luxury item you would like to have with you? - That's the hardest question I've ever been asked. (laughing) You know, because luxury to me is time. And giving people back time today is really, really key. But if I'm on a island, I have all the time in the world. So along with that, I would bring somebody along with me that is a love of my life that I can share our memories and our stories and have the companionship. So I would bring her along with me as my luxury item. So Andrea, if you're listening, we're gonna be deserted on the island for the next little while. - Yeah, we're not gonna be shipping you off to an island anytime soon to test that out. But Sam Ionitas, a managing director of the Plaza Hotel in New York, thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item. - Thank you very much Scott, look forward to seeing at the Plaza very soon. (upbeat music) - That's it for this episode of the Luxury Item Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this useful and entertaining, I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague. I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And while you're there, be sure to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps other listeners find us. The Luxury Item Podcast is a production of Silver Tone Consulting. I'm your host Scott Kerr, until next time. (upbeat music)