S15 E02: Eyal Shani, Celebrity Chef and Restaurateur, The Good People Group

[Music] You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. My guest on the luxury item is Ial Shani, Israeli celebrity chef and restaurant tour who has significantly impacted the culinary scene in both Israel and around the world. As founder of the Good People Restaurant Group, Shani owns and operates over 60 restaurants worldwide among them Hassalon, Shimon, Miznon, and Malca, his first kosher eatery. Shani opened his first restaurant Oceanis in Jerusalem in 1989. He gained notoriety with the opening of his Tel Aviv restaurant's Hassalon and Miznon taking a revolutionary approach to dining using innovative techniques and a dedication to the craft that allows the ingredients to tell the story of the dish. This culinary ethos evolved into a signature style blending middle eastern traditions with contemporary flair and the nightlife vibes to match. He has since opened restaurant locations in New York, Miami, New Jersey, Las Vegas, Singapore, Paris, London, and Vienna and continues to expand worldwide. Many of Shani's restaurants transform a meal into a celebration with late night dancing on tables and live music and have earned him a loyal global following. One of Shani's New York restaurants, Shimon, was awarded a Michelin star in 2023. He has also been a judge on Master Chef Israel. Welcome to the luxury item, Ial. No. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. You know, your restaurant group, the good people group, which operates around 60 restaurants worldwide says it's about providing hard opening culinary experiences. Could you elaborate on your approach? What that means? That means that we are in some way like guerrilla forces. I mean, somebody's deducing us to join him, local men, a businessman. That is going to be our partner, mostly seducing us to come to its own city. And he says such beautiful things that we cannot refuse. And so we are coming, we are checking, you know, just from first impression. And then we feel if it is yes or no. When it's yes, we begin to dream on it. And I'm coming for a few times to understand the city, to feel the vibe, to feel the energy, to look on the houses, to talk with people, to try to analyze and to understand what they are dreaming about. And most important, what they are not dreaming, but they are supposed to dream. And then all these things that I'm describing now are parts of ingredients that I'm using for creating my food. Because I'm always talking about the same thing, but on the other end, each city, each arching. It's giving a different point of view, different ideas, different limitations. And inside these new frames and shapes, I have to put my language in. And we cannot stop doing it. We cannot stop because it's made us to reborn all the time. We are awake all the time. And the anger is increased all the time. And that is the only way to develop your own language as a chef. So so many decades, I'm doing it for the last 30 years if I'm not too young. And I understand your backstory on stepping into the restaurant world started out at a dinner party almost 40 years ago in your hometown of Jerusalem. So how did that all go down? I had a food writer. She was my neighbor. She was originally she came from Italy. And one afternoon she invite me to eat with them in their garden. And she suddenly I felt such a great smell that is coming out from the kitchen. It was a smell of a wasmari. But it wasn't just was married. It was a smell of a baking bread with a wasmari. And I enter into the kitchen she opened the the oven door. And I saw a huge focaccia. Then I did know that it's a focaccia. I've never been to the and I have never been in Italy. And it was what we are calling in Israel. It I rack it Iraqi. It's a very big flat bread, something like 50 centimeters in the in diameter. And she just pour some olive oil salt and wasmari leaves and bake it together. It was unbelievable. So. Till then I had my first restaurant my ocean restaurant in in Jerusalem. It was. She was one year old something like that. And I didn't have my own bread because I didn't know how to make bread. I even didn't calculate or didn't know that if you are mixing flour with dough. Flour flour with water. And then a dough will come out of it. I didn't realize it. So I began to buy this Iraqi pizza in a place in a very primitive place in Jerusalem. I used to cover it to wrap it with olive oil. See salt that I already bought from the walks. I'm doing it till now. And I serve it and people were amazed. And suddenly that man that saw me this pizza die. And nobody replace him and the bakery was closed. So I had to find my way out to do it. I had an alphabetic chef that I took from a bone. And he told me you know my grandmother is doing something very similar to that. And he took one kilo of flour, one kilo of water. See how big is the duration one to one. And some salt and some yeast mix it. It was like a mixture for making a pancake. And it was so watery. And then he made the hill made out of flour. And he threw this water into the flour and immediately wall it. So it got a shape. It got a shape of a sphere. And it didn't afraid for me. It was inside his hands. And it took it and opened it into a huge circle of a focaccia and immediately swore to the stone, to the oven stone that we got in our tiny kitchen. And the result was unbelievable. And immediately I called it a focaccia even today. And 30 years ago I already knew that it's not a focaccia. It's a flat bread. It's in between focaccia and Middle Eastern, flat bread. There is something very similar in Italy that they are calling it quacante. And from the fact that we are opening it with our hands. And your hands are getting here. It's made a kind of big bubble that reminds me of mountains and valleys. And when I put the olive oil, you know there were paddles of olive oil in the valley with the sea salt. And with the wasmari, it was the best bread that I ever had. Yes, so was it the focaccia that started raw? In the end it was the first thing that I learned how to do. Because I opened a restaurant that I knew nothing about food. I just knew how to make the best bread in the world. Not because I'm such a genius because I got the book, the cooking book of Julia Child, and the French cooking book of Julia. If you are following it. and recipes, following them precisely. Very good things will come out of it. So yeah, I promise you, till today I'm reading her, she's inspiring me in a sense of humor and in a way of being so precise and to understand what is the most important points on each dish. So I made a bouillard base and with the local Mediterranean fish, there were huge varieties, today there's almost nothing. They took everything from the sea, the fishermen took everything from the sea. There was a great bouillard base that came out of it. It was a mixture between a French and a Mediterranean. It was amazing. And I had a girlfriend, she was older than me and she traveled a lot around the world and she told me you are doing the best bouillard base. I found that it's an enough reason to open a restaurant. But I wanted to open it in Jerusalem because it was my hometown and I was in love with that city these days. So I decided to open a fish restaurant. Today I know that the best fish restaurant are the ones that are not close to the sea because they have to prove something. So I opened a fish restaurant without knowing nothing about cooking fish and cooking it all. - I just know how to make a bouillard base. - So the first thing that I did there, I decided I had that the French people are doing a thing that is calling a green salad. There was nothing like that in Israel. A salad made out of leaves, I out of lettuce. So what I used to do is to bring white lettuce from the Arab women, from the old Arab women in the, from the were inside the walls of the old city. I used to put them inside a big bath with huge amount of ice, water and so on. It's freezing your fingers. And I put it with all the mud. I didn't wash them, nothing. And if somebody ordered a green salad, it took me 30 minutes to find the right leaves inside that, it's water life. And I couldn't feel my fingers because of the cold it was. It was a terrible feeling, but that green salad was amazing because you know I choose and live by leave. I break it very carefully into the right size that I think that it was the right size. And, but it took 30 minutes to do that. So that was my beginning. And then came the Fokratya. You've been called the Godfather of Israel, Equizine. And there's been a growing interest worldwide in Israel, Equizine. And the perception of the Israeli food is just falafel and hummus, but Israel has an amazing mix of immigrant cultures. What do you believe is the essence of modern Israeli cuisine? In the beginning. Of the Israeli state, when it was born, the policy of the government was to cut out all the roots. That people that came to Israel from other countries were caring with them. They want to make a new Israeli human being. So the first thing is to cut the culture, the own culture that they bought from their homes. Or maybe the first thing is to cut the cuisine. So people were ashamed in their local, in their original cuisine that they bought from their countries. And they did the own cuisine inside their home. They didn't open restaurants in the time. Russian Polish people, Arab people that came to Israel, didn't show it outside of their own. There was something, there were restaurants that used to call them misadamis raheit. It's an oriental restaurant. They used to serve the skewers and some Arabic salads. These were the only restaurants and another three restaurants in Israel. That pretend themselves to be a French restaurant, but they were our French restaurant and the same with one Italian restaurant. And I understood that there is no Israeli cuisine. I mean, at 40 years ago, in all the new world, all the new world got no cuisine. I mean, in England, there was no cuisine. In the United States, there was no cuisine. The Japanese got the Chinese, the Italian, the French, but not the new world. And I understood immediately that as a family cannot live without an inner kitchen inside that apartment, inside their home, it cannot be a state without its own cuisine. So I decided to find it, but I didn't know where to begin with, and where to look on. So the only inspiration was these old women in the old Jerusalem in between the walls that I look on there in Grydien's. They pressed me a lot because they used to sit on the floor with five tomatoes, four cucumbers, ten zucchinis, and I understood that it's a very exclusive agriculture. I mean, it was born inside her own little garden and it impressed me a lot, and I used to bring them to my restaurant, I look on them, I didn't know what to do with it. And then people two months after I opened my restaurant, there was the most important food critic that came to my restaurant, and one that is the best restaurant ever in Israel. Why? Because they ate the briebes and the green salad. There was almost nothing else. So you can imagine how many people came, knew yesterday and came to see what is that magic, what is a new Israeli cuisine that is coming to Israel. And they came in huge amounts, and I didn't know how to cook. So in the service time, I used to run away from the kitchen to go to the mountains, I got a chip, and I used to climb the mountains around Jerusalem, and I used to pick sage and rosemary and red fennel. I used to, that I can do something with it, but yet I did my work two times. And then I remember one day, it was the first rainy day of the autumn, and all the inside and live were covered with huge amount of little wild flowers. I look on it, and I say to myself, I have to bring them all to my restaurant. I had a big bag that I used to go with, and I picked them, I'm at a huge amount of flowers, thousands of small flowers. I came to my restaurant, ask myself, what shall I do with them? I cannot cook them because it will destroy. So suddenly I said to myself, in the same day, I got the first new olive oil. It came from Bejalites, also the Palestinian area, and I said to myself, I will arrange the flower in the same way that I saw on the mountains, and then I will put some olive oil. I will bake my focaccia, and I will give it to the people that they will roll the focaccia inside the flowers, and the oil like they are doing with hummus. They know the movement. Sorry, did it, and they asked me, are you sure that it's all right? Maybe some of the flowers are poisoning? And I said to myself, them, yes, I think that some flowers contains amount of poison, but they ate it all, or the western ones. And then the next day, some of them call me and they told me that they didn't slept all night from some pains. And I told them, I told you, I mean, it's not secure, I'm not, I wasn't sure, but they didn't stop to come to my restaurant. They trust me. Why did they trust me to them thinking about it? Because they understood that I'm beginning of a journey in the name of all the Israeli culture. And I'm experimented without any knowledge, but with a big passion and honesty. And that hypnotized them. And they didn't leave me, even though there were such a fellows on the way on that journey. But they were very close to me and follow me, they are following me till today. And you ask about the new modern Israeli cuisine. Look, if you are talking, I tell you what is an Israeli cuisine. I will exaggerate it, but that is the way to explain it. Remember the first days of the Japanese cuisine in Israel. It was 30 years ago, something like that. And people become familiar with the sushi wars. That was the first things that introduced in Israel as the Japanese cuisine. Two months later, from that first show, they began to put knifles inside that wall. These are the Israelis. The Israelis are hybrid people. They are importing visions, knowledge, technology, and mixing it all together. They have no fear. They are very flexible. They are very fast and they are big inventors. And more of all, even in Israel, we have no tomorrow. Because the tomorrow was always foggy, today special. But we had the past. But the past is also also wasn't a thing to think about. Not so happy thing to think about. And the future was always very foggy. So what was the rest? The present. There is now and just now and therefore, if you are serving a cup of espresso to an Israeli. And it doesn't think that it's the best espresso that he ever drink in his life, he will get mad out of it. Because for him, there will be, maybe there will be, there are other expressions. You know, the Italian people are drinking espresso, their grandfather drank their espresso and their great-grandchildren will drink it 100 years ahead. So they are trusting the moment. And they are pushing the inventors and the creators to create things without stopping. So that is Israel. And Israel got a very talented chef, very vibrant, very passionate, very flexible in the way of thinking, the afraid of nothing. And you know, there's the term "Fam to table". It's a term that contains so many lies inside it. But Israel is a real farm to table because it's such, it's such a small country. The distance between the field and the rest one is 25 minutes of driving. There's nothing to compare all around the world. So the food is very fresh and you know the sun, the heat of the sun. It's so strong and the light is so strong. So all the colors are out and vibrant. So take all these elements and assemble them and you understand what is the Israeli cuisine. It's mostly based on Mediterranean cuisine. But it's not in percentage. Maybe it's not the major cuisine. Maybe the far eastern cuisine is bigger than the Mediterranean cuisine here. Israel doesn't feel itself as a Mediterranean country and a middle eastern country. You consider a chef like a European or an American country that's following their culture, that are importing a lot of inner parts of that culture to their own culture. So I think that in the end, if they are importing far east cuisine, they are not making a big change. So it's not for me, it's not a part of the Israeli cuisine. So the Mediterranean is the Israeli cuisine. I think that it's the most colorful and fresh and with a huge amount of energy inside it. So you made your US debut in 2018 with Mies Nune outpost here in New York City at Chelsea Market and Mies Nune is really Mediterranean street food. The restaurant was already a global phenomenon in places like Melbourne, Paris, Tel Aviv and Vienna. Why did you enter the US market with a fast casual street food spot versus a more high-end experience? I don't call it fast casual. I call it street food. But and of course it's not a fast food. It's something else. It's the rest ones that in the end, the final destination, the thing that they are pointing on is on a pizza. You know there's mainly the way that we are eating is in an horizontal way. I mean there's a plate or there's a board and the chef is arranging the food on that plate. It's coming into your table. You're watching on it from the top. You can select how to arrange your bites. And that is the way that we are eating. When you are eating a pizza, it's not a or a reason that it's vertical eating. I mean the one that is constructing that creating that a pizza is putting a layer above layer. Each ingredient taking a layer and above it it got another layer. So in the end there's the window of the pizza, the part that is open and you can see some things that the chef decided to put on top. But it says nothing about what inside the pizza. So a pizza is a blind eating. I mean you are eating it from top to bottom. Right. And you don't know what will be your next what will be your next bite. It's a kind of a journey that you are planning for your own customer and it must to ask you that you shall create for him a beautiful path, a beautiful journey to go from top to bottom. And you call it fine dining in a and you said that you want the energy of the country. - Okay, you want the energy of the street? - Okay, and now I tell you that. - That what made me to make the Peter was that suddenly I discovered an unexplained passion in my fine cuisine restaurant, a salon in Tel Aviv to do Peter. I made Peter with everything. I made Peter with prawns and sour cream and chili, I made Peter with chicken livers and scallions. Suddenly I'm micron now, but it tastes much better inside the Peter and more of all, that Peter loves everything that you are putting in, if you know how to put it in. That means that Peter is in love with fine cuisine. That was something to discover, because in then, Peter used to serve Salafel, Shalarm, humus, sometimes Schnitzer, a very basic food, very basic food for me. It's an only food, because so many people are eating it on a daily basis and missing it from day to day, so it's holy and it's so tasty. But then I discover that it's not ending there. - That is the beginning of the week. To take a fine cuisine that you plan so putting inside a plate and to convert it, inside a pizza to find the way to reconstruct it inside the Peter, that is a new thing in the world. So the Mizznone is fine cuisine inside the Peter, the packaging of the Peter giving an impression that it's fast-casual. And that's I need because it's increasing the energy of the food. You cannot sell it expensive. You have to sell it cheap. That brings a lot of young people that are pushing, a fine cuisine, but cannot afford it to themselves. And these young people are like viruses. They are taking your Peter from your own place and going somewhere into the depth of the city, sitting on a bench and eating the Peter. And till that point, it's increasing the area of your Peter place, all the streets are becoming to be your own restaurants. And that was the moment when I discovered it. That was the moment when my food became a mobile food. And you know, it's like with the internet. The internet has existed for the last 60 years. But almost nobody knew about it. These Steve Jobs, 17, 18 years ago, put the internet inside iPhone 1 or iPhone 2. And then people began to use it. Till you are not convert yourself into a mobile device, your influence will not be a huge influence. So in the end, it's a fine cuisine inside the Peter. You know, you said it's the ingredients, the knowledge, the originality, the purity. This all makes it fine dining. And it makes you wonder if it even makes sense to differentiate between fine dining and casual dining anymore. Like what exactly is a fine dining restaurant today? - I tell you one thing. Same dining in the end is talking about luxury. But luxury is a thing that is changing through the periods and the time that is passing by. - How so? - In the past, fine dining consider an act that giving you a feeling of royalty. You are eating in the three Michelin star restaurant and you feel like the princess that used to eat in their own palaces. That was the fine dining with a lot of attention to a very small details, but not attention to the energy of the food, of the meaning of the food. But it's about beauty. It's about very perfect arranging inside the plate. I think that there's no reason that it will be today like that. I think that today people are much more casual, they are looking for the experience, they want the food to be a part of the night lives of their daily culture. You cannot divide it anymore from each piece of your life. And I think that today, the meaning of luxury is first of all, locality. That people can recognize that you came from a specific place. It can be a culture, it can be a memory, it can be a country, it can be a family that made a big impression of you on you and that you express it and translate it into a modern time. That is, I think, the first thing with luxury. The second thing that is very similar but is different is being authentic. I mean, do not follow anybody, do not copy anybody. No, you are, where you are standing, what you can understand, what you cannot understand, what are your limitations, what are the ways that are opening to you and find your fingertip on everything. Don't look to the sides, be completely yourself and put all your attention, all your focus into an energy into the thing that you are doing. People are most appreciated because it's very rare to find it in these times. It's all about fashion today and fashion in the end can never be a luxurious. Today you've built a mini global cuisine empire and it's still growing. You said in an interview about your hospitality approach, hospitality is one of the highest cultural levels in our humanity, hospitality is about service and service is all about seeing the other. Could you elaborate on what you mean by seeing the other? There's one thing in common between you and me and short people and told people everything, everybody. Everybody needs one thing that is the same between everybody. And that thing is the need of each one of us that people will look on us, recognize that we are unique and the one and the only of our own type. When you are looking on some of these and you cannot fake it, you need to really, you have to be passionate about it. You have to really love people and to be curious about people and to understand that each one of us is in all different world. And when you understand it and you are looking on somebody without thinking about any other thing with and you are cutting all the outer noises of the world and you are paying attention on him, looking on him, seeing him, it can feel it immediately that you recognize him. And into a tale, Every open is those to you because you are so important to him, because you can see him. And if somebody is looking on you and seeing you, it means that you can see. For me, he's high, that becoming like a mirror, that you are exist, you are alive, you are one, and only and unique. It's such a beautiful experience for both sides, that improving the energy and creating, I think the most wonderful feeling that you can get in your life. For somebody, the somebody else is looking on him and as the one that is looking on the other, and that is the basic of the service. And therefore, it's so high because when that act is happening, you are elevating and improving the experience of the one that you are looking on the other. It can come very poor and very sad with a low energy and when he sees or eyes that are looking on him, is climbing into the sky of itself. The restaurant Shimoné, which is the number eight in Hebrew and located on West 8th Street of course here in New York City, was honored with a Michelin star in 2023, a year after the restaurant actually opened its doors. It's exciting to be recognized, New York is the big league. What does it mean to you to have a Michelin star in New York? It's strange because it's strange. I tell you why because when I first entered the restaurant after we hired the lander, I opened the door with my sous chef. I look on the walls and I said to him, it's a Michelin star restaurant. He said to me, how do you know? I told him I see that it's written on the walls. That is the space for a one Michelin star restaurant and the atmosphere, it wasn't the restaurant, the atmosphere is a one Michelin restaurant. So he asked me, how can we get it? I told him, look, we are too wild for them for Michelin. Therefore, it doesn't have Michelin in Israel. There's no Michelin, but on the other country, there's within the Michelin. We are too wild for them. I don't want to surrender to their protocols. I want to be who I am. My contract is between me and my clients, my customers, my visitors. But if you want to play a Michelin star, let's do it. So ask me, how can we do it? I ask him many, many spaces, sources. Do you know how to make it? It told me around eight. I told him, okay, let's go to Union Square Market. And by all the ingredients that we need for these eight, nine, for these eight spicy sources. That's what we did. And we made eight spicy sources. They were very good. He looked at me and he said to me, what next? I told him, it has to be spicy. That is our way to the Michelin, not just by taste, but by our behavior, behavior, by our feelings, by our passion. We have to be very, very spicy. Being spicy in New York, it's not so simple. But that was our first step to get the Michelin, that understanding that we have to put that restaurant under the highest risk that we can put it. And Schmone restaurant, till today, every day is changing its own menu. We have 120 suppliers. Each supplier is bringing just one ingredients that is giving his life for the ingredient. And there are a lot of very strange things that are happening there, but on the other end, the food is very pure and clear with a lot of sex appeal. And there are a lot of things that are happening there, but on the other end, the food is very pure and clear with a lot of effort. And there are really one thing, to create food, you need limitations. You cannot create nothing in an open space. You need a walls that tight your way. That's first of all. And we are talking about coastal limitation. It's about mixing meat with dairy products. That is forbidden. And that is the main limitation. I'm not working my kitchen, not with cream, not with milk, and not with butter. I'm working, I'm an olive oil man. I'm working with olive oil. Because olive oil is making a shape to your food. Butter is like a pastel color. It's making everything to be round, soft and nice. And with olive oil, everything becoming transparent and naked. And it's improved the main character and the main will of the ingredient that want to be something inside your hands. So for me to open a kosher restaurant, I thought to myself, okay, I cannot serve selfish. But okay, but selfish. And no interaction between them and other ingredients like I'm not serving an elephant inside my restaurants. And I'm missing nothing that I'm not serving an elephant. So I can also not serve a selfish. Now about the dairy product. Okay, I'm working with olive oil. What rest? The dessert. Mostly I tell you the truth. I don't care about the dessert. I'm letting my I let my corpse to do the dessert and doing beautiful things. So why not to do kosher? There are so many Israelis. There are so many Jewish people. And there's also so many Islamic people that all of them are eating kosher. The problem with a kosher restaurant. And on that base, I opened my first marker in in Tel Aviv that there's a kind of darkness, a shadow of darkness that is covering the kosher restaurants because they afraid from the limitation and they feel in fear. If they compare themselves to the uncorsoist one, but I said to myself, I'm going to open a kosher restaurant that is full of joy, happiness and light. Or what I have is not to add butter. That's all what I have to do because I can find the best meat that is kosher with vegetable. There's no problem. The best fish in the seas are always kosher. The uncorsoist are sharks and things like that that are inferior to the kosher fish. And that was the beginning of the of our way with kosher restaurant. When we opened our first location, woodware and 72nd street. It was such an instant success we couldn't believe that it will be so successful. And the thing that made that success. That a lot of people that are using to eat a kosher food suddenly discover a kosher food that you cannot. recognize that it kosher because we are not trying to adapt ingredients with another ingredients. We are just going into a direction of a food that is full of light. And if there is a limitation that we cannot pass, we are not doing it. So they found suddenly an every restaurant with epiphood with very tasty food. And it's the same with Israel for my surprise, some of my friends that are-- that ate to eat kosher because they ate the auto-dogs are coming to my marker and eating there because there's a different energy, a kind of different energy that I cannot put in my hand that the kosher restaurant is creating for people. It's because the roots are inside the depth of the culture of your people. And that's what I talk about being authentic. So what's next for the good people group? Look, it's always surprising, surprises. We are not as an Israelis and our personality and according to our personality. We are not planning things ahead. We are waiting for things to seduce us to follow them. And what else? I'm going to wear the means non, the Peter place. Do you search different ideas after 15 years of operating the means non? So I'm going to change the shape of this means non. And we are going to open more and more restaurants because we are believing we really believe that we love our visitors, our customers. And we want to touch them. And we want to make them to be much happier than the moment before they came to us. And I want to tell you one thing in Singapore, we got a restaurant. We got two restaurants, misnown, and so the note that it's our bistro, all my cooks are Chinese that are cooking my food in the best way. Most of our customers are Chinese that fall in love with the energy of that fresh, clear and pure food. So for me, the ability to touch as many people that I can. In so many different cultures. Well, chef, my final question is the luxury item question, which I ask all my guests. So if you was stranded on a deserted island and you could only have one single luxury item with you, what would that luxury item be? It can't be any form of air or water transportation to get you off that island or anything that requires mobile service to call somebody to get you off that island. You're just by yourself on this lonely island, but you have one luxury item with you. What would that luxury item be? Laker camera, film Laker camera. Laker camera, I'd say German producers that are manufacturing, the best cameras in the world, I think. So the way that the lens is absorbing the world is the way that I want to see the world. So my way to do it is to look through the viewfinder of the Laker camera. So one Laker film camera, I think that's enough for me. I'll Shiny, Chef and Rosteron, Chef and Rosteron tour. Thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item. Thank you for being with me for that time. That's it for this episode of the Laker Item Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this useful and entertaining, I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague. I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And while you're there, be sure to rate and review us on Apple Podcast. It really helps other listeners find us. The luxury item podcast is a production of silver tone consulting. I'm your host, Scott Kerr. Until next time. [MUSIC PLAYING]