S14 E04: Sam Chamberlain, CEO of Americas at Ponant Explorations Group

This episode is sponsored by Bow Lake, the most beautiful paddle boards in the world. Visit BowLake.com and learn more. That's BEAU Lake.com. Bow is French for beautiful, BEAU Lake.com. You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury, and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. One of the fastest growing segments of cruising in recent years has been expedition cruising. A type of cruising that involves traveling to remote, hard-to-reach places such as Antarctica, on small, hardy vessels. This is a type of cruising so different from what the big mass market lines offer that it might as well be considered an entirely different form of travel. One luxury expedition cruise company that's been capitalizing on the rapidly expanding experiential market is Pona Explorations Group. The 37-year-old Pona is a world leader in luxury expedition cruises on small ships focused on the Arctic and Antarctic. It operates a fleet of 14 ships including Le Comitage Arco, the world's only luxury icebreaker with a polar class two hull and hybrid electric propulsion, allowing it to navigate the most extreme polar regions. Pona touches 110 countries across more than 400 itineraries. In 2015, it was acquired by Artemis Group, the holding company for the Pino family to help fuel Pona's ambitions. My guest on the luxury item is Sam Chamberlain, CEO of America's at Pona Explorations Group. Sam's distinguished career is marked by leadership positions across various facets of the global luxury travel industry, including Mark Henry Cruz Holdings and Four Seasons Yats, where he played a key role as a member of the executive leadership team. His experience also extends into the private aviation sector with wheels up and luxury hospitality with Hilton and Waldo, a story. Welcome to the luxury item, Sam. Hey, Scott, great to be here today. Thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me. Pona was founded back in 1988 by a group of French merchant Navy Academy graduates and despite being a 37-year-old luxury expedition cruise company, it's been kind of cruising, if you will, under the radar. I think a great place to start is to share with my listeners the backstory of Pona Explorations Group and how has the vision of its founders evolved over the decades? Yeah, you're right. It is a bit of a brand in the United States. It's not that well-known of a quantity yet. We intend to change that. But it was founded in 1988 by these French merchant Navy officers. But what it is today is this expedition fleet with intimate small yacht-sized vessels that are anywhere from 32 to 330 guests. And it's been over a long and I would say fruitful trajectory of conscious growth. 2019 Pona Exploration Groups acquired Paul Gagand Cruises, which is a beautiful ship in French Polynesia. That stays in French Polynesia and is really the French Polynesia destination expert as well as other destinations that we've been servicing across the poles which were more known for North and South Pole. And then also lots of tropical routes that are in these less crowded maritime destinations. So that is core idea has been to be at the forefront of exploration and going where no one else goes. Now expedition cruising has been a breakout travel trend in the last few years. It's the fastest growing segment. Expedition cruising which differs from conventional cruises in that they focus on exploring isolated, less visited or inaccessible destinations. Smaller ships also allow for itinerary flexibility, which means the captain can slow down for guests to observe polar bears or whale sharks or whatever. Is the surge in expedition cruising a result of our shift in immersive experiential travel, getting back to nature, etc. since the pandemic? There's been a lot of these mega trends. I would really emphasize that Pona was at the forefront of expedition travel as early as 30 years ago when we started pioneering in the poles and then continuously upgrading our fleet. We are the envy of a lot of these other expedition cruise lines because our fleet keeps upgrading. The answer to the question, I think there is this drive towards the experiential. There is this drive of what a small ship can deliver and small ships deliver travel in a more intimate, quiet environment. The logistics are seamless behind it. And your right going off the beaten track and experiencing destinations that are less crowded and over-touristic is definitely on the radar. So I think we have been our currently aligned to the trend but have also been that trend leader and servicing this exploration for a while. Are you speaking to some of the passengers who some of that have been on there for maybe for the first time? They just learned about Pona over the past few years and they're on there and this is something completely different and new that they do want to get back to nature. That they're just their agenda is different since the pandemic. Yeah, the agenda, the agenda differs and one of the things that we find when we speak to our customers is the amount of content and exploration travel that we produce is almost overwhelming. We have over 410, 910 areas, 110 different countries that we service. We literally hit every key geography globally. And what we find is people get picked in their imagination on one particular destination, which I call the entry point. But then they love what the brand delivers. They love the opportunity to explore. They love engaging in what is a multicultural cruise and I'll explain that later with you on how we deliver I think a very different, more worldly project. And then they keep repeating with us because we offer so much content and itineraries were always opening up new destinations. So it's a trend that they like to explore. They have one entry point and then they come on board with us and continue to travel because of just the diversity of product. Yeah, I mean, I've been reading some reports that the number of expedition cruise lines has significantly increased with the market nearly tripling between 2021 and 2023. So Polna has a lot of competition right now in the luxury expedition cruise space with new entrants continuing to break into the market. So how does Polna Explorations Group differentiate itself from these other luxury expedition cruise lines? Yeah, at its core, the biggest differentiation in my mind, of course, there's always physical hardware and product. And again, I really do emphasize that we are the leader in small ship cruising. We have an expedition fleet that is really the envy of the industry because we continue to upgrade it. But outside of product, you know, the French heritage and French flair that we deliver, one of the things that we've really been emphasizing at Pannat is this delivery of a multicultural cruise. I fundamentally believe that our traveler is interested in being on board with other nationalities, demographics, liked to engage with French, Chinese, Australian, great Britain, and being able to be in this environment where you could see these different perspectives is much more enriching. So I think the French heritage and the French service delivery that we provide gives us a unique viewpoint. But also the experts, the guides, the way that we enrich our experiences, you know, the way that we bring on our expedition team. And these are just an amazing group of individuals of natural guides, researchers, professionals that really bring this educational travel experience of life and let you get deeper with this type of immersion where fundamentally you are learning in a very unique and luxurious environment. But it goes back to this thread of experiential travel and broadening horizons both on the educational and cultural level. And you joined Pona as CEO of America's last April coming from Mark Henry Cruz Holdings, the owner and operator of four seasons yachts. You have experience in private aviation with wheels up and luxury hospitality with Hilton and Waldorf Astoria. You've pretty much covered luxury on land, air, and sea. What have been your priorities for Pona in the US since joining the CEO? Yeah, you know, I think the interesting thing about these observations and experience across all these different verticals of luxury travel, at its core, the needs, desires, and wants are very similar. So one of the areas that we're really trying to influence is what I call the travel ribbon had pannant. The travel experience needs to feel better, special, or differentiated with us from not the moment they get on the gangway to board the ship, but also how are we servicing them, how are we taking the reservations before, how can we influence how they pack their bags, getting the car to go to the airport, the lounge experience, and then when they get off the ship, how do we get the back home? So the travel ribbon, I think, is an interesting mega trend at all. Travel brand should be looking at is it's just not the experience that you offer, but it's the holistic travel ribbon. And small ship cruising really offers that amazing opportunity to simplify that travel ribbon. You know, if you look at the way that the world works right now with travel logistics delays, and just getting around mobility is a lot harder than it was before the pandemic. There's a lot more people traveling, a lot more of the suppliers are impacted. So how do we influence the travel ribbon, the really lift and deliver a differentiated guest experience? That's one of the big picture trends. And then specifically here in the Americas, it's really about strengthening the presence and the brand awareness of Paneer. and on explorations and how we do deliver these amazing multicultural cruises, how we are this distinctively French brand that delivers on French Flair, which again is very aligned to the trend of having a more worldly viewpoint, which I think is more important, more now than ever. And then expanding a lot of our strategic alliance is partnerships. We work heavily with luxury travel advisors, concierge companies, people that provide recommendations because we are a bit of a niche brand and having these travel influencers or travel advisors that really have great relationships and trust with their clients already, to be able to recommend that this is an experience that they would be willing to try is a great channel to be growing brand awareness and then some really great partnerships across multiple different types of institutions. - Pounas Flagship Vessel is the 288-foot Le Pounas, a three-mass motor sailor, which was launched in 1991 and marked not only the inception of Pounas, the cruise company, but also the first French cruise ship to hit the water. Could you talk about that specific vessel and how it's currently being used? - Yeah, they've pronounced one of my favorites because it really shows the brand's DNA inherited at its core being founded by sailors. It's the world's first relay in Chateau sailing yacht. So just 32 people on board, 16 state rooms, all have panoramic windows and you really get to have that slow sailing yachting experience, the focus on culinary excellence and then the specific deployments, it is this slow yachting, causing me mostly to have her in the Mediterranean and then she goes to the Caribbean and again, I think delivers what is on trend right now with sailing, going slow and really having a small ship intimate experience with the guests on board. - Does it have a different itinerary than the other? - Yeah, I'm always jealous of our itinerary and planning team. Again, like I said, Pounas is one of the more diversified expedition lines out there, 410 itineraries. So each itinerary is very much matched to the ship or the vessel itself. The laypin' off being a three-masted sailing ship. She stays more in the warm climates so she's going through the cold desert, she's going through the Caribbean. So much different style of itinerary than what you might be doing on Lake Hamadon Charco, which is the world's only icebreaker, right? Of course, that ship is built to be very cold so it stays in the cold weather and then our explorers ships, they are able to do almost anything. They go anywhere from the Japanese archipelago, they go North Pole, South Pole, Greenland, Caribbean, Baja California, so a very diverse fleet. And again, the itinerary team is meant to mash the ship with the perfect itinerary to deliver the best experience. - Yeah, I wanna talk about the Northern Pole of inaccessibility, sometimes known as the Arctic Pole of inaccessibility or just the Arctic Pole. It's located at the most remote spot from the ocean. It's so remote and just let that even the bravest explorers have only dared to glance at it from a plane. But last year, like you said, the Komadon Charco Ponaz hybrid electric polar exploration icebreaker reached a North Pole of inaccessibility. That's quite an audacious achievement. Could you talk about that? - Yeah, uncanny timing. I was just with Captain in New York two days ago and we gave a wonderful account and storytelling and images about his journeys on board, the Komadon Charco and the point of inaccessibility came up. So we were the first vessel to reach the North Pole of inaccessibility as the name would suggest. Of course, it's pretty inaccessible. It was identified in 2013 by NASA satellites. And what it means is the point in the North Pole where you're farthest away from any physical piece of land. And on that itinerary, we went literally above the world, we did all three poles in one itinerary. We did the North Pole, we did the geographic North Pole, the magnetic North Pole, and then the point of inaccessibility. And then we went through the other side of the top of the world. So it was an enchanting itinerary and it really speaks to this pioneering spirit of adventure, exploration, and going where no one else goes. The ship itself, the Komadon Charco, again, really speaks to the Panat, the fleet, and our viewpoint on exploration and sustainability. The Komadon Charco is a one-of-one type of expedition ship. She has a PC2 hole. PC is a rating and maritime by whole thickness. So if she's required to do so, she can go through 15 meters of ice. Most regularly, we are going through three to five meters of ice comfortably, safely, in an environmentally sustainable way. But it provides such a differentiated experience. The gangway is just dropped on the ice. You walk off the ship. It's an experience like none other. So I think the Komadon Charco and the idea and concept of us going to the point of inaccessibility, it sits more in this rarefied luxury travel space than it does expedition cruising. Fun fact for you, Scott, is that more people have been the Mount Everest than they have in North Pole. So the ability for us to go there and the Komadon Charco is just such a special and differentiated experience. And this is why using partnerships, using travel advisors and concierge companies, most people don't know that you can do this. And the growth and expedition cruising industry has been fueled by demand for sailing and the Arctic. But those destinations are only navigable for short seasons. How do you keep your ships filled year-round? Yeah, you know, that's a great opportunity for us to talk about exploration and expedition. Expedition has this connotation that it's always has to be cold. And where our approach is a year-round deployment, that's really diversified. So of course, Antarctica and the Arctic is where we position our fleet. But we also have ships that when they're not in the cold, they're going to the Kimberly, she sells, Amazon, South Pacific. So we have high occupancies around the globe and strong yield and strong performance throughout the year. And usually doing this by highly enriching those cruises. Of course, in the polar regions, we have great naturalist teams, guides, and expedition leaders. And then when we're in the warmer waters, we tend to differentiate those sailings with speakers, guests, gastronomic cruises, and the more lifestyle and educational components that still deliver some great enrichment. Yes, so how do you keep those itineraries fresh all the time? You've been in the business for 37 years. Yeah, well, with the fleet, like I said, 339 sailings for the Pannonce, Paul Gagon. She stays in French Polynesia, but French Polynesia has just so much diversity. If you look at the society islands within the Marquases, and the fact that French Polynesia, and we've been there for so long, and the goodwill, the relationships, the Goggins that we have on board, we continuously mix it up. And then every year, we're offering 20 to 30 new destinations. Like I said, I'm so jealous of our scouting and product team, because they really are working three years ahead of us when we announce our sailings, and they're planning what's next, they're planning what's on trend, and just the world's a really big place. And a small ship is a great opportunity to experience it. And then the difference of small ship cruising versus the land alternative is something that I really look at. If you look around the world, there's places where you can only go via small ship, all use the Kimberly and Australia, for example, really only accessible via a small expedition ship. Indonesian archipelago is another really good example. But then there's some things that are closer to home, like Iceland, where if you're doing Iceland via a car for five or six nights, it spends a lot of time in transit to go into all the historic and natural monuments of Iceland is an amazing place. I've done it by car. I can't wait to do it by small ship. But we also offer an itinerary. You can do a circumnavigation of Iceland. You spend the same amount of time in the destination, but then the ship is the vehicle that takes you there, and you could do so in comfort and relaxation. So small ship cruising is really this great way to see the land alternative much differently. You launched a collaboration with the nonprofit scientific expedition focused explorers club organization a couple of years ago on a series of new expeditions. How do those trips differ from your standard itineraries? The partnership that we have with the explorers club is really special in the sense that it's a great example of a private enterprise with Pennott working for a venerable nonprofit of the explorers club to amplify what is a really good, common cause of sustainability, research, science, and advancement. The partnership is really fun in the sense that with the explorers club, we work with them to have their explorers, their membership, produce and submit research proposals. So we'll review those research proposals. We'll find the explorer that best matches the itinerary, best matches the concept, or just has a really great idea and wants to be able to come on board. And then we co-build and create an itinerary, predominantly this like common on charcoal and a few of the other explorers and then those Explorers go on board. It's co-branded. The explorers will engage with the guests, they'll give talks, they'll give lectures, but they'll also be able to conduct their scientific research on boards. So it shows a really great alignment of that educational travel, that adventure travel, that experiential travel, bundled into what is a really great partnership that we have with that entity that gets a lot of great feedback and also does good. Different type of customer than the regular attenuaries for the explorers club? I too agree. The Le Comanachar Co itself, where a lot of the itineraries were explorers club land. The Charco traveler is much different than the rest of our expedition demographic. They're traditionally a little bit younger, a little bit more adventurous. It's a different level of price point as well. So there is a bit of a difference. And then we look at the explorers club. It is much more North American because of the explorers clubs, just recognition and the status that that holds, especially in New York City. So I would say they're slightly different, but then really the content comes to life because of those individual explorers that come on board. Just recently, Polna had its inaugural winter expedition in Canada, St. Lawrence River, which is exciting. It's the first time any cruise ship has navigated the St. Lawrence River during the winter season. Why have there never been winter expeditions on the St. Lawrence River? And how did you win over the Canadian government to have them do that? Well, I was actually just on one of these sailings. And you're right, before Le Comanachar Co. No cruise ship had the capabilities to navigate the St. Lawrence winter during the during that season for the obvious reason that it's frozen. So having this ice breaking technology made it possible. And it was such a great sailing. You know, imagine one hour flight from New York to get the Quebec City getting on the ship. And two days later, we were breaking ice through Sagna, which is a Canadian fjord on the St. Lawrence. We dropped the gangway on the ice. We were doing dog sledding, snow-shoeing. Just what I would call an amazing neighborhood backyard type of luxury adventure travel experience. So we had four itineraries this year that were 12 nights and then we'll be going back in 2027. And you're right, it took a lot of work with a lot of great people to envision this. It required infrastructure by Canadian government crews of St. Lawrence and really trying to accommodate the St. Lawrence, which is a great destination in the off season, which speaks to the trend of trying to have slower travel, have travel where you're not always going there at peak season. And Quebec City, of course, during the winter is this fabulous destination to start. Right. And like many cruise travelers in this category, I would imagine Ponaz primary target audience are these curious individuals over 55 years old with the money and time to venture off to wild and untapped destinations. And while Gen Xers and Millennials represent a probably a small percentage of your clients, have you started to develop itineraries to win over these audiences? Absolutely, you know, this fits with our notion of the fleet planning and our our scouting team and how we build our itineraries, you know, from the structural standpoint. We definitely see a shorter length of crews. And I think people want to pack it in the especially you know the US market, which I represent they want shorter crews, they want to be able to fly and get on and really what I would say maximize it. I really emphasize this notion of the multicultural crews, I think because the expedition product or landscape is so diversified, you know, there's really you see this in all travel trends, right. And really is a product that almost fits into every niche and every travelers desire. So I think fundamentally a pinot our desire is to have that multicultural crews cater towards an individual that's more intellectual wants to learn wants to be involved and engage with scientists, for example. So really that more explore type and intellectually curious type of traveler, we see a really big trend as well with solo travelers people going by themselves and solo travel. Speaking to this notion of a bruise versus land as a solo traveler being by yourself on land. And as a bit more exhaustive, it takes a lot more of an outgoing nature, whereas small ships really are set up for success with solo travelers, you're able to be in the dining room with multiple people, you're engaging with them on lectures or going out on excursions with them. So solo travel is just this new trend where there's a demand for more independent travel, but just very more immersive. And then lastly, you know, polygon cruises delivers this floating resort type of experience across from which is such a enchanting destination. So really there, I think we we hit all the cords and all the notes we have leisure travelers, we have honey minors, we have families multi gen, we have a great family proposition on board, polka gone. So we really see it all, but from the structural standpoints, airports of how Americans get on and offer ships, how they travel and then like to stare things that we're really looking towards. Today we're seeing true ultra luxury offerings from luxury hospitality at the pinnacle of wealthy guests expectations, exclusive once in a lifetime travel experiences have become table stakes at this point. What top of the strata offerings and services does Pona have that caters to the higher demands of wealthy guests? Yeah, you know, when I think ultra strata luxury, I think more around exclusivity and how we're able to find places that no one else is able to go to our service. There's lots of different types of travel experiences out there in terms of like I said, the diversity of product across luxury lifestyle brand positioning each brand is so personal. It's the one thing I've learned in my career around luxury brands every single person has a different type of desire that they specifically resonate with themselves. So it makes luxury brands so special because they are so personal, but really where I feel that we fit into that constructors around the exclusivity that we deliver with course the French flare the European touch the multicultural crews, but more of these destinations that we offer and how we are able to go places like the geographic North pole or the point of inaccessibility, but also be in an environment where you could be having dinner at an Al-Anducasse restaurant in the most. And the most luxurious setting so this dichotomy that we bring of ultra luxury experiences, culinary, fine dining, physical product and then marrying that on top of unique, exclusive and hard to reach destinations really falls into that construct of what the luxury travel or the that ultra-fied strat of income is looking for not about these physical attributes. Of course we have those, but how we take that ship that has those attributes into areas that never seen them before. Some exciting news, Pono Explorations Group recently announced that it took a majority stake in aqua expeditions known for its small ship cruises and remote locations. Is this acquisition part of a bigger accelerated expansion plan? Absolutely, you know aqua expeditions is a really great marriage of what I would call mutually aligned brand values aqua specializes in small ship expeditions and very remote destinations. You know they've been in the Peruvian Amazon they go to the Galapagos in the Nigenarkapalago they have a beautiful river crews that I've been on that does the mecon. The alignment between small ship experiential travel is very well suited for an integration and there's a lot of mutual values around enrichment conservation sustainability and in going word no one else does so aqua found a really great home and now really the jewel in the crown of our portfolio a much smaller type of line a much smaller ship so now our fleet has our explorers that have a hundred and 86 passengers and then a lot of the aqua fleet is less than 30 passengers on board so really amplifying that idea of small ship luxury intimate boutique cruising but also on that front you know and not continues look for other opportunities and strategic strategic acquisitions we have a new build project that we've announced called swap to zero swap to zero is our effort to decarbonize and produce what is a net carbon neutral cruise ship. And then lots of other opportunities opportunistic areas where we could continue to be at that forefront of exploration. So what's in store for the next couple of years can you share a couple of things that my listeners can expect from Pona. You know I think with aqua in specific it's about really how could the two companies leverage this energies and how can we continue to explore together how can we open up new destinations together how there could be opportunities for more smaller boutique type of experiences and small ships. So aqua recently announced a really exciting project in east Africa which has a second chapter because of the second season of where she will sail next and then I'm super excited about pannance entry into the glop of ghosts with aqua expedition. It's again, Galapagos is this marquee expedition, itinerary, that really gets a lot of people to fall in love with small ship cruising and expedition or exploration travel. And Aqua has actually been a great leader there. And then we'll continue to really over index on sustainability and what the future of the Pannot fleet looks like with our Swap the Zero project, where we are trying to decarbonize and be a leader and decarbonization with our sustainability initiatives. So Sam, my last question is the luxury item question, which I ask all my guests. So if you were stranded on a deserted island and you can only have one single luxury item with you, what would that luxury item be? It can't be any form of air or water transportation or anything that requires mobile service. It's just you on this island by yourself with lots of sand, palm trees, miles and miles of ocean. What would that one single luxury item you would like to have with you? I thought about this long and hard and the fun thing for me being on a deserted island as I love the cook. I love to actually would appreciate the quiet time. So I chose a awesome brand called Smithy. It's a North Carolina based cast iron skillet manufacturer. And I would want one of these beautiful handmade handcrafted hand forged cast iron skills because I'm sure I could use one pan, which is always the cast iron skillet way. And hopefully cook myself something that I would find on that island. And hopefully it won't rust. But if you said there was coconuts on this island and I'd figure out how to get some coconut oil and make sure she's clean. Sam Chamberlain CEO of America's at Pona Explorations Group. Thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item. Thanks guys. I was fun to talk to you today. Thank you. That's it for this episode of the luxury item podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this useful and entertaining, I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague. I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And while you're there, be sure to rate and review us on Apple podcasts. It really helps other listeners find us. The luxury item podcast is a production of Silver Tone Consulting. I'm your host, Scott Kerr. Until next time.