S13 E08: Jean-Marc Pontroué, CEO of Panerai

[Music] You're listening to the luxury item, the podcast on the business of luxury and the people and companies that are shaping the future of the luxury industry. Here's your host, Scott Kerr. [Music] The Panerai, a renowned Italian luxury watch brand, has been synonymous with high quality timepieces and precision engineering since its inception in 1860. Founded by Giovanni Panerai, the company initially specialized in crafting precision instruments for the Italian Navy, earning a reputation for its exceptional craftsmanship and attention to detail. In the 1990s, the brand made a strategic move to enter the civilian market. This decision marked a new era for Panerai, as its timepieces gained popularity among watch enthusiasts and collectors worldwide. In 1997, the Rishmung Group acquired Panerai. Over the years, Panerai has evolved to become a global leader in the luxury watch industry known for its distinctive designs, innovative materials and exceptional performance. My guest on the luxury item is John Mark Pontewe, CEO of Panerai. Recognize for his strategic vision, passion for product and multifaceted commercial experience, John Mark Pontewe has been at the helm of Panerai since 2018. A luxury industry veteran, he started his career at Givenchy with the LVMH Group. He joined the Rishmung Group in 2000, leading product strategy at Moneblah, before being elevated to CEO at Swiss luxury watchmaker Roje Dubuie. After six years, John Mark Pontewe was named the CEO of Panerai. Welcome to the luxury item, John Mark. Icecote and great pleasure to be with you today. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Panerai is one of those distinct and immediately recognizable brands and has become popular with the most discerning watch enthusiasts and Panerai's deep rooted connection to sailing the sea. The military are an essential part of the brand's DNA that dates back to its origins in the mid 1800s. Can you talk a little bit about Panerai's historical ties to maritime and how it has influenced its design and philosophy? As you say, rightfully Panerai's origin are, I would say three things, number one military, number two maritime, number three Italy. And that has created the foundations of all our storytelling within the brand. And that has influenced a lot all what has been done around the brand since 1860, bringing some innovations in terms of materials or calibers or water resistance and a level on many of our watches, which are above the rest of the standoff in that in that industry. In the past, it was very important. It remains today the maritime influence of the origin of the brand still something very, very critical. And I know that you have a couple of issues afterwards regarding our partnerships, which we got with the America staff. And that is all associated to what we are doing at Panerai. What type of maritime influence it can get to our brand where it comes to product development on marketing initiatives? And Panerai had built this incredible reputation and its watches were exclusively available only to military and professional users. It really didn't reach a wider audience until I think 1993 when it made a strategic move to enter the civilian market. What were the first civilian collections like and how did the public take to those collections? So the story of Panerai, even though we were not doing watches in 1860, has a lot of what we call the key dates of the brand, which in some of our stores around the world, we have this timeline which are highlighting some of our key dates. In 1935, it's a very important milestone for the brand because this is where we have the very first prototype of the very first Panerai watch which at that time was a radio mirror. Then in 1938, we had the supply of the very first radio mirror called on its well known code in our country, which is called 2533, which is the radio mirror with no numbers, just the button indexes. In 1955, we had the patent for the protecting crown, which is today one of the signature, the aesthetic signature of the brand in 1956, ZEG channel, which was creating the benchmark for the sports watches which became afterwards the luminor on the submersible. And in 2002, we were very lucky to have our first in house caliber called the 2000, the P 2002. So all these elements have paved what you are mentioning here is that from our military on diving origins, growing the brand towards a wider audience, which of course has been accelerated after 1993. When it was the opening of what we call the pre-Vendom era in Panerai. And then in 1987, when Rich Moore acquired the brand. And then we had the support of big group in terms of infrastructure, finance, research on development, distribution on your name it. And I know Panerai is a favorite among Hollywood action stars like Dwayne Johnson, Bruce Willis, Jason Statham, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Sylvester Stallone. In fact, Stallone and Schwarzenegger were catalysts of panorized transformation and explosive popularity in the mid 1990s. The watch is making cameos on his wrist and some of their big action flicks and promoting the brand and Hollywood circles and the red carpet and things like that. And some say it actually kicked off the whole watch industry sizing norms. Well, no doubt Stallone's endorsement quickly drove demand for the panorai brand. Did it in any way hinder you telling the brand's broader story to customers? It's an interesting point. It's true that panorai in which we are mentioning has been probably the brand in the ardenities, which has broken the codes of sizing standards. And at the time where 40 millimeter was probably already the beginning of big watches panorai came with 44 and 47. And that was really the way panorai started to exist in the watch industry as a very differentiating elements compared to the other ones. We are still proud today to have many celebrities in Hollywood who are wearing our products, but it's true that Silver Star Stallone was probably with Schwarzenegger the very first ones where the ones people they came to Italy. Also the one promoting the brand in the US. And it hasn't void us to also promote the other aspects of the brand, especially all his heritage, all his manufacturing competence, all the fact we are developing tough instruments for sports activities, especially setting activities. So all when you enter one of our store or if you go to our website today, we are trying to develop many stories around the brand. And for sure the heritage showing that panorai is a brand which exists in many decades with many premier the sandwich dial is one of them the luminosities and the one the water resistance, the shape cases we can have in our watches. And the big cases, the variety of straps you can have so you have many elements which makes a panorai so different from many other watch in the watch industry. And normally if you go to our stores, you are able to get these different environments from our the message you are saying in our booths. And did Stallone auction off its other bees? I think it was this last summer or two summers ago some key panorai pieces from his collection. He still has a lot in his collection. Yeah, he sold one of his emblematic timepiece because one of the very first one he had get a great price out of that on first it's always pride to see that because he's is he being panorai close to his heart. And but it's an interesting to see the value that these pieces can get supported by of course Stallone and on the auction house we did a great job in promoting this time piece on the shows that panorai can get value of a time on these type of specific time pieces. And as you mentioned before the Rieshmann Group acquired panorai in 1997 and that was a major turning point for the brand this partnership provided panorai with the resources and expertise needed to further make a dent in the luxury watch market. How did it change the way the panorai brand was marketed? Well, we were switching from a very family business family own business to a group which has the magnitude of being today the second largest luxury group in the world. One of the big one in terms of luxury watches segments. So it has given us a lot of advantages as always mentioning to you all what customers don't this receive but which are all what is. And then the HR talents organization distribution subsider is access to many information. which helped the brand to grow faster than the rest of the competition. I don't mention research on development, competences, quality standards, IT security. On for panoray, it was learning a little bit what was happening outside Italy. Of course, I exaggerate, but what I tell you that because the brand was already exporting some pieces outside Italy, but it was really the chance we had with Rishmol to get access to all the rest of the world. On having got a lot of informations, intelligence from this group about what's happening in the luxury world has helped panoray a lot to be developed in the US, to be developed in the rest of Europe, and of course a lot in Asia. And we probably don't realize how big the support is from a group. For example, if I take one example, the lab idea approach, where panoray, for the ones of you, don't know that I by the is trying to develop concepts which have to give the time, but they are associated to patented principles which are by definition new in the watch industry. On panoray is launched last year, the Elex, which is the force lab idea we are having, without the support of a group like Rishmol, launching this type of spectacular new concepts is challenging because of the cost, because of the time, because of the number of people who are spanning energy on creativity and these concepts, which are not necessarily something you can afford in many other brands. And Rishmol has allowed us like all the other brands that Rishmol is hosting to get extra resources to be able to bring these concepts. And Rishmol eventually moved production from the Florence workshop to a new manufacture in Switzerland, was the move just about consolidating the watch operations in one country? Well, we all know that if you want to produce high end watches, the Swiss made is not only a signature of seriousness, it's also where you find the talents. You know that probably I'm always proud to say that Switzerland is the only, our watches is the only category in the world, where luxuries made in only one country which is Switzerland. If you take all the other luxury products you normally have two, three, four, five, ten different countries producing around the world. Hearing watches, of course I include also Germany with our friends, for long years or but it's very concentrated on Switzerland. So when my predecessor had to choose a location, Switzerland was a natural choice because this is where the talents were based. This is where the suppliers were based and it makes the organization much more smooth, efficient, if you are producing, in addition to get this signature of Swiss made. So we had our first manufacturing in 2002 in Neshattel, which has been then transferred in 2014 in the existing location because it was too small in the very first one. I don't think that our my predecessor anticipated the development of the brand at that speed and today we are proud to have on the hates of Neshattel, a beautiful manufacturer. All you can say to all the people who are listening to us that this manufacturer is open to public that you can as well as you pre-register yourself before you can visit the location where all the time pieces of Panerai are assembled or you can see yourself or the journey of a Panerai product development from the beginning, from research on development, from assembly, from prototyping, on our below fresh test where we drop our Panerai at one meter high where you can test that unchecked that the Panerai movement on the case are still resisting despite of the magnitude of the shock. Did the move from Florence to Switzerland ruffle any feathers in the watch community and among enthusiasts? Well, you know it's I think that among the first week we kept on even enlarge our existing story in Florence. So the Florence boutique today remain number one or biggest story in the world in terms of traffic and business. Second, the origin of the brand third, the only boutique which has this architecture because we didn't change the original boutique we haven't enlarge it but we kept the original one. So if you really want to smell the Panerai spirit Florence remain the ultimate destination. I don't think I don't remember how people reacted at that time but I think that the communities of watch lovers did understand that in addition to Florence we were needing to get a Swiss made larger production capacity and that's why we choose to switch some of the time. And the Panerai product portfolio consists of four main collections, Lumino or Lumino or Duet, Radiumir and Somersible. Well, it's not the most extensive in the world of watches. The brand seems to go all in when it comes to experimenting with new materials, finishes, innovation and advanced watchmaking techniques. Is that approached by design? So when we look at the product portfolio, we probably have one of the smallest assortment among the top 20 wedge brand in the world. The assortment panerai is more as 120 skews in our assortment speed as you rightfully mention four product categories. Lumino remains the key story. It's representing always the highest share of bacerors among all the markets where we are distributed around the world. That stands for the original panerai product with a lot of Italian flair, a lot of differentiation compared to what exists in the rest of the industry. The Duet collection was developed afterwards, allowing smaller wrist to wear panerai watches as these, this family is available only in 38 on 42 millimeter. Then you have the Radiumir, as I was mentioning to you at the beginning of our discussion, which was the very first collection of panerai. This is the only one which doesn't have the protecting crown system. That is very much for the collectors. Provided that for Lumino, this is the category for which we have the highest number of newcomers to the brand. If someone wants to start its collection of panerai very often, he enters our brand through the Lumino collection. Radiumir for collectors, for people who are more in the traditions in the complications, that is the category for Radiumir. Then we have Somersible that has been launched a couple of years ago, which is a standalone family on which stands for all the sports performance, bigger cases, new materials like CarboTech, BMG, TCAMI Tech. All the new materials are very often associated to Somersible. As long as it brings added value for people who love sports. We don't develop only new material for the pleasure of being innovative. It has to get an added value in your sports or setting activities. You can spot a panerai right away thanks to details such as the sandwich dial, the safety lock system on the crown, and the bold shapes of its timepieces, a very hyper-masculine, yet chic design language that becomes synonymous with the brand. It seems like panerai produces a particular kind of watch for a particular kind of person and mindset. How would you describe the average panerai customer and that mindset that draws them to your brand? You know, it's an interesting question because I am very lucky to meet often customers of our brand, panerists, the collectors, people who are new to the brand. So I love to be exposed in a store or in a special event. To all these people who are discovering the brand or who know the brand better than me, like it exists very often when you meet with some panerai's team. As a command-demonator for all these people, you find a very strong masculine, self-confident, assertive, brave person with this charisma. And we often say that our time instruments are solid instruments. Our origin is military. When you work in the military industry, you are not here to make fashion products. You are here to make solid, trust-cool, readable instruments, which also can be worn by people like you and me who are working more in offices than on military fields. So the type of customers we have are people who are self-confident enough to choose a brand, which is not part of the top three ones in the world. So they are happy to show a product that not everybody has, that they know. Provided, as you say, rightfully, it's easy to recognize a panerai. It's very interesting when you see another person wearing a panerai because they know you know what type of brand they have. And it creates a lot of connection. I'm proud to always use use this claim that a former telephone company was using in the past, which is connecting people. And panoray instruments are connecting people. I have been stopped a hundred times in hotels, restaurants, planes by people wearing also another panoray on looking at me and say, how do you stop your story with panoray? And then you instantly a discussion which can take years about how people enter the panoray journey. And that is a very emotional moment when people start to speak about their entry in the panoray world to be back to your question. You find a common denominator among all these people brave enough to test something which is not necessarily known by everybody. Are you finding more women coming into the brand? Yes, you know, it's interesting. The first thing is that when we are working with collectors, when we are working with a panoray student, very often they are partners and wife are interested. To understand why their husband are so interested by this brand. It has happened to me very often to hear women telling me, well, they have been stealing a couple of times the watch of their husband. And that's why we brought the last couple of years a certain number of smaller sizes compared to a 44 and 47 towards 40 and towards 38 millimeter, allowing also women to find a selection of products more suitable for them. We don't do quite. We don't do smaller cases than the 38 millimeter or which is our atomic. So you would still find this duplicity of a panoray watch. You still find this masculinity. You still find a water resistance which are part of all the attributes of all watches but treated for a customer ship which is more women. I'm very proud to see a growing number of women wearing our products today. And you were just talking about the panoray community, really quite a robust collector community. It's one of the largest and strongest of its kind. They've been around for more than two decades while these kinds of brand centric enthusiasts communities operate entirely independently from the brands they love. Panoray has actually embraced this group. What are the benefits of engaging with your passionate followers? Well, first, if you have never been part of the panoray's tea community, I, I strongly invite the people who hear us on who love to be part of that to discover what it means. And I had my very first contact with the panoray's tea community when I joined the company on for sure in Hong Kong when they did their P day. For the ones who don't know this very all the details of this community, the panoray's tea community is about 30,000 members in the world. We have celebrated this year in 25. We will celebrate, sorry, the 25th anniversary of the panoray's tea community on each, they have local organization. So first is a community we don't manage ourselves. It's a community which lives by the people who are the biggest fan of the brand in the world. They exist in something like 25 different countries. The biggest communities in the world are in the US, in Italy, in Germany, in Japan, in Hong Kong, in Singapore. And they organize beyond the regular meetings they have during the year. They organize once a year what they call a P day, which is a three days gathering where you have in one city about 250 people who are meeting from all over the world on exchanges are expirions of panoray. I have the great honor to host them for one of the three evenings during that P day on exchanging with them, on presenting to them what are the big plans of the brand for the next 365 days. And it's for me, beyond being a very unreaching event, a very emotional moment I'm spending with all of them. First, because they know the brand, I mean all of them know the brand better than anybody at panoray. Second, because they come with very interesting ideas and suggestions. I never forget it's their brand. We are sharing together a passion at different levels. But they are doing that in the interest of the brand. And when I see the number of the resources they've been spanning on this brand, the time, the energy, the creativity, the envy to make panoray what are the leading brand of the world. Panoray will not be where we are today without the community of the panoray system. So it's a very insightful moment when I spend time with the panoray system. They have a claim which I'm very jealous because it's one of the nicest claim you can find the watch industry. They say panoray see so much more than just a watch. And when you see these people exchanging themselves from different countries, different ages, different starting point in their journey with panoray, it's a moment which is very fascinating. Lincoln, 2023, Deloitte conducted its Swiss watch study and asked the watch industry executives what their priorities were for 2024. Topping the list close to 75% said it was introducing new products followed by strengthening the Omni Channel strategy, organic growth, and investment sustainability. Looking back in 2024, how did that sync with your priorities for panoray? Well, I think that all these priorities remain have been extremely valid for 24 remains extremely valid for for 25. But beyond bringing on introducing new products, I think that the customers have changed a lot the last couple of years on the speed behind new products is not necessarily something that they are after today. The creativity is more important. Bringing new skills is easy bringing recognized creativity is much more challenging. And creativity is not only in products in materials, in caliber, it is for me very much in customer experience. Panoray, what we try to do since a couple of years is how we understand better the type of customers entering in our boutiques. We mentioned the panoray's story where you don't need to explain the brand history to a panoray's team. We have different product customers entering in our stores. And we are spending a lot of energy all over the world with different maturity markets. Because some markets are new to the brand, some markets are historical to the brand. So we don't have the same level of knowledge on brand awareness per market or per city. And we spend a lot of time with this agility to better understand all the people entering every day in one of our 200 boutiques in the world. How we can speak to them in a non-standardized approach with our heart being interested really by what they are looking for. Their budget, their taste, their envy to visit a location, is it for them, is it for what is the purpose of entering a panoray boutique. And that is something which occupies us a lot because all what you have said about sustainability, growth, new product, that is our daily work anyway. What do you bring to the business model which is becoming more and more complex every day with different markets, trends to be able to enrich the customer experience, which is one of the key story for the years to come. To stay true to its maritime roots, panoray has been involved in the America's Cup sailing since 2017 and has been the official sponsor of the Lunarossa Prada Pirelli sailing team since 2019. The America's Cup is not only one of the world's oldest international sporting trophies, but it's also arguably the most prestigious sailing competition. Why has panoray been drawn to a relatively niche sport like the America's Cup and what are the shared values? So first of all, you know when you mentioned that it's America's Cup is a niche sport. It's a billion viewers and it's one of the top five sports competition followed in the world. After the football workup, after the NEP games, after the Tour de Fours, after the Red Dicap, the America's Cup is one of the most followed up events in sports in the world. To give you an example, which I didn't know before preparing the America's Cup several years ago, in Barcelona, last year, two million people came to the city during the six weeks of the competition just for the America's Cup. So at the other day, not all the cities can host on the America's Cup, because the magnitude of the attendance, because of all the media coverage of the story, because of the infrastructure of all the teams. So it's a big machine, the America's Cup. When we enter, oh, it's not me, by the way, it's my predecessor who started that operation with different teams. When I joined the company, for me, it was making sense to continue the America's Cup, but with the Italian team. And I don't need to explain why we choose the Italians. It makes sense for us, but depending to the America's Cup that the Italians is basically the team to support. We found a very interesting team and starting with the captain of this operation, which is Max Serena, which is a legend in the world of the America's Cup. And this gentleman came in 2018. We got a very short meeting to say that we want to work together. It's a question of people, first of all. And the partners at that time on our sale today are Prada on Pirelli. And Panerai, who was a big operation in Milano, was designed, product development, digital, you name it. We were all in Milan to try to develop the sense of accelerating the presence on the efficiency of that team. Something not to forget, Lunarosa is a brand. It's a team, first of all. It's a country, Italy. But it's also a brand, which is-- we speak about the others by their nationality. We don't mention very often the Italian team. We speak about Lunarosa. And everybody knows it's Italian. And everybody knows it's a succession of different great concepting terms of products developed by-- developed also on the other side by Prada. So for us, it was a way to enter a chapter of our brand in terms of sponsorship, number one. Number two, extension materials. When you visit Cagliari, where they have the manufacturer, you discover a world of developments of new materials to gain one second, being lighter, being faster. Which basically is what we do on a smaller scale, on a smaller volume of products for watches. So it was very interesting that our watchmaker is meet with their engineers on vice versa to be able to identify some new materials, new methods, new approach in having a development product, which have a relevance within the assortment of Lunarosa. And finally, it was about experience. We took-- and I know you're going to speak probably more about that after-- but it was a chance for us to associate some of our best customers around the world to share the life of the America's Cup team, Lunarosa, during their preparation in Cagliari in Sardinia, or during the race in Barcelona in Spain. So there are many reasons why we work with them-- sponsorship, research and development, customer experience, and the beauty to work with the Prada team, which are very involved in making it a success. And could you talk about the Lunarosa collection from the most recent 37th America's Cup of the team? What's the key highlight-- the key highlights got of the watches on Wanderer's 2024 in Geneva, where we reveal six skills-- a new material, which was a T-Series Amitec, which is a Susie to Panerai, on the experience series, which is a tourbillon, host aid in a submersible model. And that was a big highlight on communication focus that asked what she's Wanderer's. And that has been a great success. Beyond the fact that you are participating in the race, it's also a way to tell the Panerai story about Italy, or about sports, or about sailing. And Panerai also forged an exclusive partnership with the United States Navy Seals in 2022 on a collection of special watches. So how does one go about engaging with the Navy Seals on a collaboration? Well, it took us a couple of years, because when you work with military teams, the biggest problem that you don't have any telephone number where you can code. Right, I'm saying it's everything's in secret, right? Exactly. So we started first by the Marine Amitec Army many, many years ago, as you know, we are supplier of timepieces to the Marine Amitec Army. And the beauty of the Marine Amitec Army in Italy are having a strange program with other forces, military forces in the world, among which Navy Seals. So Italian go to America, to America, and Americans are also coming to Italy. And when we first wanted to expand outside Italy, we got Americans who discovered these timepieces on the rest of many Italian Marines. And this has been the beginning of the story. Then we have been in touch with the veterans of the Navy Seals, which was which we started to develop contacts. And then on then we were able to find the right contacts to be able to develop this partnership. Today it's a series we have since now, three years, works very well. It is not one of the story we want to insist in the future, but it just highlights the fact that Panerai with other forces, military forces in the world, is supplier of timepieces. Some of them we could have mentioned them because we are obliged by contract not to mention their name. Also, we can speak about, like it is a case for the Marina military, like it has been for the Okitares forces in France, like it is for the Navy Seals in America. And it gives, it just strengths in the fact that the mission of Panerai originally was, as I was mentioning to you, the world of the sea, as well as the military regions of the boat. - And Panerai's brand heritage and storytelling have been at the heart of its marketing strategy. In 2020, Panerai brought this to life, launching stream watch experiences for its VIP customers. You know, I was reading previous trips have included a free diving expedition in French Polynesia with the record setting, Free Diver, a hardcore training experience with the Royal Italian Navy in Italy, an Arctic adventure with the famous explorer, Panerai brand ambassador, Mike Horn, each one of these unique experiences is tied to a limited edition Panerai watch, all with the goal of getting closer to the brand and creating memories with their timepieces. So who gets invited to these once in a lifetime adventures? - The principle which you describe very well is basically something we launched in 2019. And it happens to me in a dinner, when I was close to one of these people who know as I was mentioning Panerai better than anybody at Panerai. They had been to Florence, they had been to a manufacturing in the Chateau, they had been to many of our stores around the world, how we could supply them. On the idea was to be back to the origin of the brand, a supplier of the Italian Navy. Our story was to develop at that time a limited edition of 33 pieces, if I were remember, which you can get only on only if you also participate to a three day training camp with the Marinamitari. So in the quotation that we gave for this limited edition, will you have the watch? As a trophy of your three days experience with the Marinamitari. We come to catch you, so I know you live in the US in New York City, we come to catch you where you live. We bring you to the airport of New York. We bring you to the middle of Italy because it's in Las Pettia, close to the north of Rome. You spend three days with us and we bring you back to New York. In the quotation we gave you, that includes the experience in New York to New York and that includes the timepiece. We did about 15 of these experiences so far because we do about two to three every year. We have three types of experiences. You have the, let's say, easy ones, which are discovering facets of Italy. We did Florence, we did Rome, when I'm brought to announce you, that's a premier that will determine in 60 next year. I mean this year in 2025, that is easy one. This is where you can relax, enjoying the Dolce Vita of the country which has seen the birth of Padoray. Then you have the one which are adventure on expedition. You mentioned that here, it is about the diving with the world champion in free diving and in Tahiti in the French pre-Nesia. We go in next month with Mike Horn in Bhutan where people will climb a couple of thousands of meters to visit a new culture. And then we have the military experiences. We are here. We better make sure we select customers who are fit enough to be part of three days, follow up of the best military forces in the world. Where we send you six months before a training program. On this experience program at Panerai is mobilizing three people full time in Milan to prepare what will be the next program of experiences for the next three years. Based on these three potential Italy adventure on military. On that, that brings a lot of new community. to our brand, people who love to be associated to sing, where normally you cannot buy them in any travel agency, because when we bring you like in Bhutan where we are going to bring customers, there are many areas where you cannot go alone. Are you looking to expand the program? Well, for the time being, I can't say we take a lot of energy on resources to build it, because you need to find an interesting product concept, I need to find an interesting program of the experience. And I can tell you the program of experience takes probably more time to develop than to watch itself. The watch we know are job. When it comes to experience, we depend a lot on different other partners. But yes, it's something where we see a lot of appetite for high-end customers to be part of this unique experiences around the world. And that is one of the, when you are mentioning one of your pristine questions about what are the big priorities for the brand in 2024 and in the future for Panerai, developing our differentiation, not only by product creativity, but also by customer experience. What we do with this program is something we want to highlight, because this is very unique to the Panerai world. So much of Panerai's legacy leans heavily into its maritime heritage and Italian craftsmanship, which we've been talking about. So how does that carry through to your retail strategy and its boutiques and the customer experience? When we developed the new retail concept a couple of years ago, the idea was to make people discovering not only watches, but all the stories at Panerai, military, sailing, competition, vintage. When you learn the first radio mirror in 1935 on your name, it's so far as the biggest compliment we can have when you enter on your leave a Panerai store, did you learn something you didn't know before? What type of hidden stories of the brand you discovered on you didn't know? So we try not boutiques, even though some of them are not the biggest ones, to make customers not enjoying new products, but also the brand storytelling. And when you see our boutiques in which I was this morning again in Geneva where we have the laboratory of the Ede, you know, Panerai stands very often for laboratory Odee, a brand which has brought new ideas and we try to show what are the new materials, what means BMG, what means Kabutek, what means T7 and T1, what are the advantage for customers to buy these new materials? So our retail is here to stage, to fear-trolize all the innovation on development of the brand, all the new ideas we have, all the heritage we have on how we can make it accessible for all the customers entering our stores, whatever they know where the brand or they are new to the brand. So Jean-Marc, my final question is the luxury item question which I ask on my guess. So if you were stranded on a deserted island and you could only have one single luxury item with you, what would that luxury item be? It can't be any form of air or water transportation so you can't call your friends at the Navy Seals or the Lunarossa team to pick you up. It's or anything that requires mobile service so you can call somebody to pick you up. It's just you on this deserted island all by yourself with palm trees, sand, shells, hermit crabs and just lots of ocean. What would the one single luxury item you would like to have with you? Let me turn the rule of your story by having two of them. What is the quick one? Always breaking the rules, Jean-Marc. Well, part of final one would be a picture of my family to give me an emotion on hope. The second one would be a magnum of champagne as I'm a big fan of champagne and that give me joy on hope that one day someone will see that can bring me out of this this other island that you are mentioning. Good answers. I let you slide on this one. Jean-Marc Ponte, CEO of Panerai, thank you so much for joining me on the luxury item. Thank you Scott. That's it for this episode of the luxury item podcast. Thank you so much for listening. If you found this useful and entertaining, I would be really grateful if you can share it with a friend or colleague. I would love it if you subscribe so you never miss an episode. And while you're there, be sure to rate and review us on Apple podcasts. It really helps other listeners find us. The luxury item podcast is a production of Silver Tone Consulting. I'm your host, Scott Kerr. Until next time. (upbeat music)