S1 Ep8: Spot the Scammer with Claire Fallon and Emma Gray

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Oh my god, they're everywhere. The Delvis are everywhere. This is why you don't travel with friends. Hello, my little gossipers, and welcome to the season one finale of Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and this is the podcast where we bring you a delicious morsel of gossip from the real world. This week, we have Claire Fallon and Emma Gray on with us for an absolutely ridiculous tale, but before we get into it, a couple quickhouse keeping those. This is going to be the season finale for season one, but please do not panic. We're still going to be around, we'll be updating all of our social media, and we're currently working on a bonus episode, but we need your help. For this season's break, we're looking for stories about family gossip. You can send that to the voicemail at 2679 gossip, but please remember it cuts off at three minutes, or you can send it via a voice memo to our email at [email protected]. Make sure you specify that it's for the bonus episode. Please make sure it's your own gossip to share so that we can play it. You can leave your name or stay anonymous if you want. Okay, this week, we have Claire and Emma. Claire and Emma are the hosts of the Bachelor podcast, Love to See It, and the hosts of the General Popular Culture podcast and newsletter Rich Text. Emma and Claire, hello, welcome. Hi. Thank you for having us. We're so excited. We're so excited to be here. We're so excited to gossip. We're so excited to talk over each other this whole time in our eagerness to react to gossip. I think that's good. And I'm excited to have you both here. Why don't you both start me off by telling me what your relationship to gossip is? I've been thinking about this because I've been listening to your pod and I'm like, how will I answer this question? And I don't know that I would have self identified as a gossip beforehand, but the more I thought about it, I was like, Emma, you have to own it. You are a gossip. But I'll say I think I'm like a benign, a benign gossip. I find gossip to be something that can be a really useful tool for bonding, for entertainment. And I like it to feel nice and light and fun. When it fears into darkness, exit. What was your hesitancy in calling yourself a gossip? I feel like it's not, it doesn't really have a positive connotation generally, especially when you're a woman and sort of, I think, assumed to be somewhat flighty and silly by nature. And I think often gossip is associated with teen girls in a way that is quite negative and dismissive. When actually we're just all having fun. Exactly. When I think of the word gossip, I think of like a very harsh stereotype of a middle-aged housewife in a house dress with nothing better to occupy her time with than talking about what she saw over the fence at the Joneses. Yes. I, however, I'm really not much of a gossip. And I've been trying to figure out why no one ever tells me gossip. And I think that part of it is just that I don't have a very extensive social network. And so no one ever brings stuff to me. You know, I have like a small group of like five close friends who are not friends with each other. So like no one's bringing me in the background info. And when I used to gossip, it was usually at the office. And I don't work at an office anymore. And so my connection to like that, that office social network and gossip sort of funnel has been cut off for me. And I think I'm very conflicted about it because I have like two sides that hate each other. I have a side to myself that's like wants to be liked and wants to be nice and wants to seem like very sweet. And then I have a side that's just like a raging judgmental bitch. Each of those sides of my personality has like complete contempt for the other side. So I'm like, I want the gossip. And then I get it. And I'm like, oh, but they seem so nice. Like it's so sad to hear that actually they're doing that terrible thing. And like, so I have a very fraught relationship with receiving the gossip that I think probably has made it me a more complicated person to gossip with. And like this podcast is prompted in me like a deep self-examination of my relationship gossip clearly. There was a slideshow yesterday from some like therapist on Instagram that was like, how to respond to gossip if you don't want to do it. Kelsey posted that and it literally enraged me. I was like, I will not be saying this to anyone. I felt so angry the whole time I was reading it because it was like, I've only heard nice things about her. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. If you are going to divert my gossip, you must leave it. However, if you feel uncomfortable, that's fine. We could push through that. The thought of someone coming to you with news or something terrible, someone has done. And you say, well, I've only had wonderful experiences with that person. I mean, really think about what you're doing in that moment. You know, you're like, I want to make sure that the public narrative about this person for whatever reason stays uniformly positive. Right. It also feels like post the last two years of like uncovering me too. I was going to say that gives me a real like me to red flag situation of like, well, he never assaulted me. So guess he's good. Yeah. My experiences with him have been completely assault-free. So I don't feel comfortable discussing this right now. The moral is sometimes people are bad and they should be judged for it, I think. And sometimes people just do like weird shit and you want to be able to take a little bit of harmless pleasure in it. And that's also okay. Yeah, you guys are going to fucking love the goss today. Oh my god. Tell me you you both run a kind of two podcasts that have been about the bachelor and the bachelor franchise, which is notoriously gossipy. Can you tell me a little bit about how like gossip functions in the like reality TV realm, how it's different from real life, how it's not. Oh wow. That's that's a big that's a big question because I think that gossip functions a role both within the world of the show and also outside of it. So on the show, there is the perennial question of what do the contestants know about each other? What have they observed about each other? What have they heard about each other? And are they going to bring it to the lead and say this person isn't here for the right reasons because they have a boyfriend or a fuck buddy or an even more horrifying character destroying sort of slur. So it can be weaponized in this way, but also if you are the gossip that often redounds negatively to your credit. So on the show, gossip is this very dangerous but also powerful tool in the mission to rise to the top of the pack. And outside the show, gossip just is what they all just like become celebrities and what are celebrities for if not for all of us to gossip about all the time. And that's how they say relevant because they have no other celebrity qualities other than giving us people to gossip about. Exactly. In both cases, gossip is a tool. But afterwards, I think the gossip becomes on the whole far less dangerous because when you're talking about building an Instagram or a TikTok following, even some questionable gossip can in a way be good for building that brand. So there are, there are I think like more ways to play with gossip. And I also think that gossip plays a really important role in keeping the community of bachelor viewers tied together. You know, there are, there's a very popular subreddit dedicated to the bachelor. I would say that is pretty much exclusively about gossip on the whole. There are bachelor like scoop and gossip accounts and recently. Reality Steve. Reality Steve is the the originator. But there are a lot of younger people who have now who operate exclusively on Instagram and TikTok that like full-time do this. Yeah. And Claire and I have even recently started doing bonus episodes where we just gossip because there is this entire ecosystem of questionably true news that is continuously circulating around all of these people. Yeah. You know, the longer, the longer, this is the eighth episode of the show. But at this point, I'm like, is everything gossip? Because the more that we like talk about it the more I'm like, what is a political. a pointy rumor, but gossip. What is people getting engaged, but gossip? Do you think that gossip has parameters? Or do you think it is like an emotion? What is it? It reminds me of that annoying thing that people say sometimes that's like really deep people talk about ideas and like shallow people talk about other people. And so the idea of like talking about other people. I think that does feel just say you're lame. I'm just talking about existentialism and you're talking about how your neighbor is having an affair with the plumber. You and I are not the same. I mean, one of us isn't intellectual. Exactly. One of us is having fun. But like so much of what we talk about is about other people. And I think that that also feeds into so many other like fiction is essentially just like a way to gossip without actually gossiping. And I think that's partly why we always see such curiosity about like, oh, is this character based on you? And like are the other characters based on people you know? And what are you implying about them? Like anytime we're telling a story about other people, that has its roots in gossip. And it's so it is just like inherently linked to how we love to know what other people are up to. And like what human nature is like and how other people are showing that. I think we spend our whole lives trying to like excavate the truth about humanity, about other people and about why people do the things that we do. Like everyone around us is fundamentally to an extent unknowable, even the people closest to us. And I think that gossip functions as a way to try to to create that exploration. Like it just makes complete sense. And also it's absurd to try to separate ideas from people because all of our ideas are fundamentally at their core for the most part about people or about how the world functions with people in it. Well, speak for yourself. I have a lot of ideas that are purely conceptual and they're not related to people in any way. Clear, this is not a philosophy podcast. Stay in your name. Okay, the two of you ready to hear some gossip. You want to do some gossip? We're ready. Yes. Okay, so to set the stage, we are in the pre-pandemic world. It's 2019. Okay. 2019, our story concerns a group of friends. There are four friends, Maya and Naya, who are twins, Evelyn and Sophie. What, what, what do you have to say already? Trying to commit the names to memory. I'm just thinking that this is the platonic number of friends in a group and I'm already trying to assign them to their sex in the city counterparts. Okay, so we've got four. They're all in their last semester of law school and apparently when you have a law degree, as none of us know, people really want to hire you. So they all have like firm jobs lined up. Right there, like I just have to like get through this last semester of law school and then someone has promised to hire me. So one night over drinks, they're talking about like the summer space that they have between like graduating and taking these jobs and they've decided that instead of going off on their own, they should go on like a trip together to make their money go further. Right? So like we can share hotels, we can share reservations, we can like share whatever and this will give us more breathing room. They really figured out travel for the first time. They're like sharing a hotel room. It's cheaper. Yes, they're breaking new grounds. They're drinking frozen margaritas. They're like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to go to Southeast Asia. Ostensibly what they say they're doing is they're going there because like they won't have time quote unquote to fly to Southeast Asia when they're all like very fancy busy lawyers. They're like, we'll have limited vacation days eventually. Incredible. Everyone's excited. They've all been friends since the first year of law school. They're like, we deserve this. This is what's going to help us get through the last semester. We're going to like motivate ourselves with this trip. But when they start mapping out like what they want to do, they quickly run into a problem which is that there are like five different areas of Southeast Asia that they all want to visit and they can't afford to do all five of them. So they're like, what we really need to do is pick four. They're like, we're everyone go home for the week and when we meet next week for drinks come back with like a ranked version of these five five and we'll pick four. It's a democratic process. I was just going to say hard to believe this all went left because yeah, it sounds like it's going smoothly at this point. Okay, so they all come back. They've got their ranked locations right there like one through five. The problem is there are no clear winners. It is impossible to cut one of these locations because like the ones that are ranked fifth for someone are ranked number one for someone else. So it's like we can't figure out which one of these to get rid of. And so the twins Maya and Maya are like we have an idea. Instead of cutting one, why don't we add our friend from undergrad at UCLA who is free this summer and wants to come. And everyone at drinks is like cool, great. We bring in this fifth person, she contributes to our trip. Now we can afford to go on five. Is that how that work? They're working out the finances of this with like such complexity, but they can't figure out how to like find out who won the ranked choice system in any way. They're just like instead we'll do some financial magic on this new person we'll pay for our trip. I feel like just bringing a new wild card into a well oiled social dynamic. This is starting to feel like a Ponzi scheme. Yeah, I'm nervous. I'm suspicious. Okay, you're going to get more nervous. Oh no. Because the way the way they've decided to pay for this trip is that they've decided that each one of them is going to have a budget cap and a leg of the trip. So like you're in charge of booking the hotel and the reservations and making the itinerary for your leg of the trip. Okay. Okay. So they've divided it into five sections and each person gets a leg, right? Which makes kind of sense if you think about like they're all in law school and they need to study or something and so they're like you need to like figure out a section of this. Everyone needs to do their part. But it's also like okay, that's a lot of you've chosen to do something that I personally never do. Okay. This is an important thing to understand about this group is that the girls who are not the twins Evelyn and Sophie are like we feel great about this decision, right? They're like this is so nice while they're at drinks. The minute they're like walking back to their apartment. Sophie and Evelyn are like can you believe this? Oh my god Maya and Nia are so annoying. Their friend probably sucks. Like who even is she? I searched their friends while I was in the bathroom on Instagram and I think she's like some kind of influencer. And to be clear, they like this decision. Like they're in favor of the fifth girl coming on this trip. So what are they not in favor of the Maya and Nia making the suggestion? They're like this this changes the power balance in the group. Is that the concern? I think what it really is is that these are girls who are like bound together by circumstance. Oh yeah. And they don't really like each other. Yeah, I was going to say this is not how you I've never I can't if I were talking about a friend like this. I'm not going to be like on my high horse. I've never talked about a friend like this. I wouldn't be planning a trip to Southeast Asia with them at that point in time. That's like when I'm slowly drifting away from them on a gentle sea of apathy time. Yes. Okay. So they like plan the trip. Trip is planned. Five of them are going. They graduate. It's summer. The trip is here. Okay. Because our law students are in the middle of the country and they need to get to Southeast Asia. They're flying into LA to make their connection. Okay. At LAX, they are meeting up with this fifth member of the group Maya and Nia's friend. Her name is Jenny. Jenny is Los Angeles, right? She's like wearing a matching fancy athlete's suit. She like has a hat and like she has nice luggage. She has like those cheekbones that girls in the bachelor have where they're all like pumped with filler and so extremely beautiful. And Sophie, our friend of a friend are like access to this story is like, oh my god. You know, she's so beautiful. She looks just like a celebrity. I'm obsessed with Jenny and Evelyn is like, she's just tall. She's just tall and she's just dressed well. You're like losing your mind. You're just enchanted by her. And Sophie is like, yes, I am enchanted by her. She's arrived at the airport with like those little bottles of vodka for us to mix into our bloody marries on the plane. I love her. She's hot. She's gone up to counter with the flight attendant and persuaded them to put us all in the same row somehow. I love Jenny. And Evelyn is like, oh my god, she's so annoying. So I would like to ask now like how are you feeling? Do you trust these people? Do you think Evelyn has a right to be suspicious? I don't trust a single one of them. I don't think they all make me very nervous. Anyone with Instagram face to start with. And I definitely don't trust anyone who would go on a trip to Southeast Asia with people that they don't like. So that seems like all of them. That's all of them. think we're out. So Evelyn is whining, right? She's like, I don't like Jenny. And Sophie is like, I cannot deal with this line of thinking because my leg of the trip is first. This is very important focus. The order of the weeks of the trip is Sophie, our friend of a friend, Maya, Jenny, Nia Evelyn. Okay, so Sophie and Evelyn are like book-ending this trip. Got it? Got it. And sorry, the each leg is a week long. Probably not, but it's a little one. Okay. To me, how long are there? Sofie, Nia. One of the twins, Maya. Sophie, Maya, Jenny, Nia Evelyn. Okay. Evelyn. Exactly. So Evelyn is the most negative and she's last. This is, this is a disaster. Oh my god. And also Evelyn is like, she's not stressed yet because her leg is so far away, right? Sophie is like, we're landing in Singapore and I have booked the hotel and what if everyone hates it, right? She's like a little nervous. So now it's like they're each like throwing a party. They're doing like, yeah, for wedding. People don't have fun. Then it reflects poorly directly on the person who planned that. Exactly. Oh no. Exactly. No, thank you. I don't like that. Yeah, I, I, again, I off-doubt. Okay, so plain lands in Singapore turns out everything's fine, right? The hotel is cute. They're having fun. Everything's going well. They like, Sophie has booked them a lot of like restaurants for them to eat at. And so they're like, this is great. They're eating street food. They're having so much fun. Evelyn seems to be warming up to Jenny a little bit. So this is great. She like tells her story while they're while they're like eating dinner one night about how she once ghosted this awful guy so hard that he thought she had literally died. And everyone is like laughing, like drinks coming out of their nose, laughing, right? Like everyone is having a great time. Sophie is like, I did patting herself on the back. So on their last day in Singapore, their last day of Sophie's leg, she's planned for them what she calls a wander day. And that means she's like prepared for each of them a map. And on the map are like stores and restaurants and like little things that they didn't get to to see. And everyone can just like go see them, right? So like do whatever you want. Because there are five of them, it's like a little too many of them to just like wander around. And Maya and Naya are like, we want to go to this luxury store. And everyone else is like, we do not want to go to the luxury store. We want to like look around at Singapore. So we have two groups, right? Maya and Naya go away. Jenny, Evelyn and Sophie are like walking around looking at stuff and pretty quickly Evelyn ditches them. Evelyn's like, I have been with you people for so long. I need one afternoon alone. I need to just like look around Singapore, have some alone time. Goodbye. And Sophie is like, this is great because I'm trying to bond with Jenny, right? She's like, this is the best thing that could have possibly happened to me. So Sophie and Jenny are having a really nice time. They're like going through an outdoor market, right? Sophie like finds a necklace she wants and Jenny like helps her bargain and like try to get the price down and like convinces her to buy it. They pop into like a little booth full of furniture. And this is where Jenny finds the lamp. Oh my god. I've just never heard a lamp brought up in a way where I just knew that it was meant to say bad things are going to happen with this lamp. This is a cursed lamp. I can feel it. The lamp is a floor lamp. So it's like four feet tall. It's one of those like colorful birds where the bird is like looking up and it has like very long legs. So it's like an elongated vertical bird. One of those. And it's, yeah, I have one in the living room. I got it. It's carved out of wood. It's like hand painted. Sophie and Jenny are like touching the bird lamp. They're like, it's so soft. Jenny's like, I love it. I'm obsessed with the bird lamp. But this is a big lamp, right? And so they're like, haha, funny, cool bird lamp continue to shop. But like the bird lamp has ingrained itself in Jenny's brain. And Jenny is like, I need the bird lamp to live. And she's like showing Sophie pictures of her house in L.A. And she's like, look, this is the corner I would put the bird lamp. See how like the belly of the bird matches my couch? See how like this part matches my rug? And Sophie is like, damn, yeah, you've got to have it. So they go back to the like little area with the bird lamp. And they're like, I don't know, it's like, it's very big. Also, we're in Southeast Asia and hopping around a lot. So like, what are you going to do with this? I actually have a really good answer for that. They add the bird lamp to the trip. The bird lamp is going to plan the six leg of the trip and also chip in. So like it'll work out actually to everyone's benefit brilliance. That's a great thing. I see how this works now. Yeah. So they go back to the store. Jenny like asks the guy in charge of the store like how much the bird lamp is. And he's like, it's 300 American dollars. And she's like, no. And so she like haggles the man at the bird lamp store. And now he's like, it's a hundred American dollars. And so Jenny's like, Sophie, should I buy this bird lamp? And Sophie's like, what about the walk back to our hotel, which is a mile away? This is a big bird lamp. And Jenny's like, it's fine. It's not that heavy. I'll carry the bird lamp. And Sophie's like, what about the fact that it's huge? Like, we're going to have to get on planes. And like, what are you going to do with the bird lamp? I'll just like tell the stewardess that it's a piece of art that I have to keep with me. And like, she'll just let me bring it on the plate. What? Sophie at this point has watched. Sophie at this point has watched Jenny like skirt every rule that exists. So she's like, you know, maybe like this might work, I guess. Sure. So Sophie watches Jenny by the bird lamp. Jenny is ecstatic. But now the bird lamp has to be like, carried everywhere. There is now, as you've said, an extra person on this trip. It is the lamp. It's wearing sunglasses and hats. They're taking pictures with it, right? It's like, the lamp is now here. There's not an immediate problem with the lamp because the second week is who's weak. Do we remember? Think back? Maya. Maya. Maya. Nice. So it's Maya's weak. And they're going to qual import in Malaysia. And apparently you can take a train. It's a six hour train. And the plan was always to take a train. And so the bird lamp is fine, right? They just bring the bird lamp on the train. Up to this point, no issue. Maya's weak is not important. So we're skipping right through it. We have a lot of weeks to get through. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember who has the third leg? Uh, it's Jenny. Jenny. Okay. So it's Jenny's weak. Jenny's weak is in Thailand, right? She has Thailand. You could take a train to Thailand. Um, but I looked it up and it's 24 hours with two transfers. Oh, no. No, no, no. In my opinion, taking a 24 hour train to Bangkok is a bad idea, personally. So Evelyn is like, lol, this bird is dead. There is no way this bird is getting on a plane. The bird is going to be out of here. I'm no longer going to have to look at it anymore. I'm not going to have to deal with it. Is Evelyn harboring some resentment towards Jenny that's continuing to grow out? I mean, even if you can't take it on the train and all that, I would just be like, now we have to like, one of our members is not only dragging her luggage. She's dealing with this huge lamp. Like it just seems like you would weigh the whole group down. But like, so annoying. The people buy furniture when they're on vacation. So like, how do they have it? They've got to be ways to deal with this. Yeah, I don't understand why they would take it everywhere. I don't know. I can't answer the psychological questions. Ma'am, go to a post office. Go to the USP. I can only tell you in office. In Singapore. Yeah. It's to be like, ship this to my house. And I'll like, yeah, there are solutions to this that makes sense. All I have is the information I was given from a friend of our friend. They did not take any of the solutions that makes sense. Okay. So it's the morning that they're going to Thailand, right? And Jenny's been like, make sure all your stuff's packed. We need to leave at like 8 AM right from the hotel. Evelyn's like, bye bye to the bird. I can't wait to get off this plane. There's no way she's going to talk her way into this. They go downstairs and it's not like a shuttle to the airplane. It's like a fancy SUV with a driver. Are they being driven all the way there? Yes. How long of a drive is that? What? It's like 20 hours. What? Wait, how did they not know this ahead of time? Because everyone's in charge of their own life. Wait, so they didn't book their own travel just like they're just booking plane tickets? Okay, that is. This is why you don't put someone else in charge of booking your airplane tickets. Like the one day they'll just be like, oh, I don't feel like flying. So I got us an SUV to drive 20 hours together instead. Evelyn is also like have either of you traveled abroad a little bit like alone as a woman No, not alone, but like yes with groups with the groups of friends If you're in a group of girls who's like traveling together. There is like a lot of You know opportunities to make like taken jokes And Evelyn is like Evelyn is like you know, we've been making a lot of jokes about like being kidnapped this feels like ripe territory for me to be kidnapped is just like getting into this SUV No Right and so Evelyn is like, but I'm gonna use time right? I'm gonna be like 20 hours in a car to go to Bangkok. Absolutely not So she pitches a fit and Jenny is like Lucky for you. We're not going to Bangkok. What? What? so I was the kind of person who used to think that being financially Healthy meant that I could just not think about money at all I was just like I said it and forget it put it on autopay Turns out that's probably not the best way to manage your money who could have guessed that's why I'm so happy to be Partnering with rocket money rocket money is a personal finance app that helps fine and cancel your unwanted Subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings I'm not gonna lie sometimes I avoid looking at the rocket money app because I will be confronted with myself and my choices, but We're on a journey of self-discovery, you know, and rocket money has really been helpful. 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I love more than an untie and pretzel bite Hero bread is offering 10% off your order go to hero dot co and use code gossip at checkout That's code gossip at H. E. R. O dot C. O All right, so Jenny has decided that this whole group is writing 20 hours in a car and that they're not going to Bangkok Evelyn is obviously Freaking out and Jenny's like you're no fun. Just let me have my surprises It's my like of the trip. This is gonna be really nice. Can you please get into the SUV a promise? It will be fun. Do you think it's a good idea to get into this SUV? No Demand more information do they know does she tell them where they are going or is she just like it'll be a foot No, no, absolutely no, absolutely not getting in the car of an Instagram model Without knowing exactly where it's going in southeast Asia having no idea the location the amount of time I will be trapped in this vehicle like absolutely not Sophie is like Evelyn if you do not get into this fucking car I am going to murder you myself and so Evelyn is like fine She gets in the car and they drive and they drive for like six hours and it is a beautiful drive right there Like this is so pretty we're having that we like seeing we're stopping for snacks or we're having fun Whatever they arrive at a like small village six hours away and Jenny is like this is where like my ancestral family is from and I just wanted to like come and stop here because it has a really cool like artisan Area and I wanted to like visit my ancestors and Evelyn's like that's cool But you could have fucking told us like I would have signed off on this like section of the trip If I had known that that's what we were doing Everyone is like Evelyn you're being really rude. This is where her family is from like be respectful Okay, I'm sorry. No, this is not about respect She should respect their time and not lie to them about where they're going And like you're you're the fifth wheel on this trip. There's a sort of level of respect when you're like Entering a group of people you don't know. I'm offended. Yes, and Evelyn is also like Mapping where they are to Bangkok, right? And she's like there are still 12 hours left to like get from where we are to where we're supposed to be So the next day they get in the car and they drive six more hours and Evelyn's like this is not enough It's 12 hours to Bangkok like why where the fuck are we and they're like in a province of Thailand that I'm sure is popular But I had never heard of it and they're like eating dinner and Evelyn is pitching a fit, right? She's like we were supposed to go to Bangkok. We all wanted to go to Bangkok. You're ruining my life well, and Jenny is like Well, you fucking chill. She's like Tomorrow, we are going to the full moon party Do either of you know what the full moon party is should I? No, I'm not I'm not cool. Tell me. Yeah, Sam Okay, the full moon party isn't all night beach party on an island in South Eastern Thailand that is mostly attended by tourists. I feel like I've seen this in like Okay, is there something yeah, it sort of sounds familiar. So it's like a big beach party. Yeah, there's like anywhere from 5,000 to 30,000 people come to like each of these full moon parties There's one every month for the full moon, right? They're like fireworks the bars are open all night You know, it's the classic like neon lights. You're not allowed to have drugs, but also drugs are everywhere, right? So Maya and I are like screeching like they're fucking thrilled and Evelyn and so if you're like what is this? Like where they're like us right there like what is this party? And so Jenny explains it to them and suddenly they're both like, oh fuck yeah Like we can't wait to go to the full moon party. We're gonna have so much fun. We're gonna be up all night So they're all on board now. They're all on board for the full moon places to sleep. Okay, so this is a good question Most party goers. Thank you for asking do not stay on the island where the full moon party is They stay on like coastal hotels and then they take a two-hour boat to the island of two hours People are committed to party. I do not know you can party like I'm really anywhere like and can can people like Like you can have an all-night rager almost anywhere if you're really committed true I just prefer the option to go to sleep without a two-hour commute If I desire to do so. Yes, they're all Excited to go to the party. They're all amped up. I don't know what to tell you. Okay, so they eat They eat their big lunch because to these girls credit They're like you need to eat a lot before you go like that is important So they like eat a lot of carbs. They like have something to absorb their alcohol and they get on the boat to the island around five Immediately they lose self-service. Oh god It's happening. They're being taken. This is a death drop Oh, yeah, Jenny says I forgot to tell you all about that There's no self-service on the island and this woman is Jenny is Jenny is sociopath She's like, but your phone's clock will still work and like we leave at daybreak right to go back to our hotel And that boat is at five. So we'll all just stick together and if you get lost or like you leave in a group of two Just meet back at the boat at five. So what you're telling me is it's 12 hours before they can go to sleep It is 12 that well. No, it's more than that because it's the two hours back on the boat at five So it's 14 hours from the time they get on the boat To returning to bed. So they they get to the party everyone's having like a blast like it is a good party It's like everyone's drunk everyone's having fun. They start on the beach. They're like little bonfires They're taking photos for their Instagram's right everyone is so happy They like go to a bar. They're having a great time. They're like doing shots. They're doing karaoke. They're like singing, you know like journey They're having so much fun. Right everyone is so drunk. No No, no, no, no, no. I swear. Okay. It's weird. It's so good. It's so good. Okay, you're fucking hot Around 3 a.m. Sophie looks up and she's like Where's Evelyn? She was right here She's like huh, that's weird. She probably just like went to the bathroom So Sophie like goes to the bathroom. No Evelyn Sure. like makes another lap around the bar, no Evelyn. She like does a classic white girl thing and she asks the bartender, she's like, can I stand on this bar to see if I can spot my friend who's extremely blonde and he's like, sure, and she gets on the bar and she's like, no Evelyn. - Is Evelyn dead? - I'm scared. - For Evelyn, I don't mind you, this is a happy song. - All right, I was like, is this a horror film or is Evelyn just like, find a really hot person to go like, have sex with? - Okay, good idea. What are you thinking Claire? - My first thought was, yes, that she was taken. Second, she's hooking up with someone. Third was, she's fucking with them because she's annoyed about how this is all gone. And fourth is, she's found somewhere to sleep. Those are mine. Those are all mine. - I think those are really the four iterations. - Those are the four options, yeah. So if you're Sophie, what's your move here? - Panic, have a meltdown, start screaming. - Where's my friend? - A lot of friends who took my panic, running around. - No, I would probably be like, at five, we're all gonna meet at the boat and she'll be there. And so I'll keep my eyes peeled, but we plan for this, yeah. - I'd probably be like, are there some extra drugs that I can have to like lower my eyes? - Yes, I love those. - Better to get more intoxicated when the same thing happens. - Sophie is panicking. And an important thing to know about Sophie is that she was a camp counselor. And so she's like, we're doing head count, right? She's like Maya and Nia, check. She's like, Maya and Nia, we have a problem. Evelyn is missing. Do you think this is a problem? Maya and Nia are like, we're panicking. This seems extremely bad. We should definitely know where Evelyn is. And so she's like, I agree. She's like, we need, where's Jenny? I'm doing my head count, right? Maya and Nia, we've got, where's Jenny? Jenny is like in the corner, making out with some guy. Do you interrupt her? - Yes. - Yeah, probably. - Why? - I feel like Jenny makes out with enough people. I feel like the important thing here is we have one other person here who knows who Evelyn is and who might be able to say, yes, I saw her. She was headed this way. - So Sophie is like, I don't give a shit who she's making out with because nobody else is going off alone. We are all gonna have buddies and we are gonna find Evelyn. So she like, sidles up to Jenny and she like, pokes her shoulder and she's like, Jenny, Jenny. And Jenny is like, you know, she's gone. She's making out and she's like, Jenny, Jenny. And finally, Jenny opens her eyes and Sophie is like, Evelyn is missing. And Jenny to her credit is now like alert. She's like, excuse me, goodbye, what? Sophie's like, she's gone. Like she was here and now she's gone and like, they can't hear each other, right? 'Cause it's like fucking barred, it's so loud. And so they like, go back out into the street and they're like, talking, right? And they're like, okay, like, my first question is was she at this bar? Like, who remembers her being here? And they're all like, no, she definitely was here. Like, she's saying this song with me. How long ago was that? I don't know, like an hour. And they're like, okay. So we know she was here. Like, she could have gone back to the beach, right? Because there's a lot of partying going on there. There's not like a lot of other places for her to go in this area. So most likely, she's like here, couple more bars or at the beach. What do you think they should do? Ooh, this is interesting, 'cause they could check more quickly if they split up, if they go together, take longer, but they don't risk getting split up again. So I'm gonna say with murder movies in mind that they have to go together and systematically check each location where she might be partying. - You don't think a buddy system would work? I think you could go with a buddy system. - But then what if one pair of buddy shows up at the meeting place and the other pair of buddies is never gonna go down. - That's true. - That does sound terrifying. - I'm fully in horror movie mode. - They pick buddy systems. - The buddy system is just more efficient. That's probably what I would do, honestly. - And at this point, they're like, we're freaking out, but like, it's entirely likely we're gonna find her very quickly, right? So they're like, Maya and Naya, you're in charge of this bar and the two bars here. Jenny and I, Sophie are gonna go check the beach. Everyone meet at the beach at four, right? And then we'll get on the boat at five, right? We now have a strategy. Jenny, like, texts on her phone, like two Evelyn, are you okay? Obviously this text does not go through because they don't have service. Sophie and Jenny are like walking back toward the beach and you know when you're like trying not to panic, but you are like actively panicking and so you're like looking at each other and you're like, this is gonna be okay, right? They're like, should we run to the beach? We should probably just like run. (upbeat music) Oh yeah, it's so cute. Just like two girlfriends going for a little run. Maybe we're being chased or not and say, our friends totally alive, she's actually alive. So they like, you know, they jog to the beach barefoot and they're like searching around. They're like getting very worried. They're like, Evelyn is not here. She's not like at the next fire pit. She's not like, it is not looking like she's here, right? It's been like 30 minutes and they're like, if Maya and Naya had found her, they would have come here with her because that's what we told them to do. So they're like the fact that they're not here and we can't find her is very bad. And they're looking down the line of like coastal, like you know, like bonfires and shit. They're like, this is a lot of ground to cover. Like how do we make sure that we look at all of it and see if we can find her and they're like also looking at the ocean and they're like, could she have gone into the ocean? Jenny's like, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna bribe this man with a small motorboat drive us down the coast and yell for Evelyn. What? So she like hands him a bunch of cash. They like get in the boat. They're like Washington crossing the Delaware yelling at the beach, right? They're like, Evelyn, right? Trying to find her. They do this for like 45 minutes, no Evelyn. And they're like, we feel like we've done a pretty good like search of this beach. Like the island is big but we're pretty certain she's not on the beach. And they're like, okay, you know, they're looking at the phone. They're like, okay, it's 415. So like Maya and Nia will be at our meeting spot. Maybe they have Evelyn. So they go back and Maya and Nia are sitting on the beach and they do not look happy and there is no Evelyn. Oh my God. One of them spent the last like hour of the night sitting on the beach just like waiting for their 5am boat back to the hotel rapidly sobering up. And like the only hope in their mind is like which hold her to be here at five, right? We told everyone that the boat leaves at five and that she should be here then. Remember it takes two hours to get back to the hotel and then two hours to get back to the island. So there is a boat at five and a boat at nine. Oh God. 9am, so like four hours later. It's the same boat it comes back. You're not getting on that five. They're getting on the five and either of you are getting on the boat. I'm sorry. No. If she's not been found, I don't think you can get on the boat. If there is another boat, I don't think you can get on the first boat. Because you can sit there and watch everyone get on board. You know if Evelyn isn't on the boat, right? Yeah, but if she's not, what do you have to do, leave? Does it change your mind to know that the boat is running back in fourth all night just at two hour increments? Oh, well, there's been boats before? Well, they just weren't. They were staying until five. Okay, but there was like, what you're saying is there was like a three AM or like a four hours before a boat or some 1am boat. The boat is now here. You're sitting on the beach. The boat is here. All four of you are together. Do you want to get on the boat? And there's no way to contact the at like, can you, can you like do the bars have like phones that you could? If they do, these girls do not think of that. So the other thing to remember is they are very tired and now extremely hungover because they have made a huge mistake and they stopped drinking. Oh, yeah, you just got to keep drinking until I was found, but they do not. But the panic, yeah, I understand. I'm going to say that given the fact that they have looked everywhere for Evelyn, she could have left already, which I didn't initially realize, I am going to say get on the boat. Yeah, I think at a certain point, perhaps you're too, you're no longer functioning and you just need to go back where your phone works and see if you can reach Evelyn left overnight. So they stand on the boat dock and they wait for 5am and the minutes are ticking by and it's important to remember that everyone else on this boat is still raging, right? So like everyone around them is like still drinking, still doing drugs, still like wild and they're all like exhausted and panicking. Evelyn does not arrive. The boat leaves Sophie vomits off the edge of the boat because she's like, my friend is lost. And now we're leaving this island and she did not show up for the boat that we were supposed to get on. And Jennie is like petting her back and Jennie is like optimistic. Jennie is like, she's okay. Like she probably just went home with someone and like that's a totally reasonable thing to do. So like, don't panic. And Sophie's like, will you shut the fuck up? Like my friend could be dead. - I am panic. - She's like losing. And she's like, you have no idea what you're talking about. Like, you brought us to this island with no cell phones service. You didn't give us clear instructions and now Evelyn is missing. And Jennie is like, you know what, you're right. And I'm sorry, you are right to be stressed. I was just trying to make you feel better. So if he's like, I don't feel better. So they're like sitting on the boat. So if he's like gripping her phone, right? They're all just like staring at their phones, waiting for like service to return. Around them, everyone is still partying. Like people are trying to get them to dance. They're like, you know, it's like a whole scene on the boat that they're all very unhappy to be in. Jennie gets service first and she knows that because her text to Evelyn goes through. So she's like, I've got service. And so Sophie, like, you know where you turn your phone on airplane and then you turn it back on. So she like turns her phone on airplane and turns it back on and she has service. And not only does she have service, she has a voicemail notification. - Oh fuck. - Is it from a gun? - Oh my god. - So she picks up the phone, right? And she's like, it won't play, right? Obviously, because it's like now that you need it to play it won't, right? So it's not playing, not playing. It's a phone on airplane mode. She takes it off. She plays it again. And it's Evelyn's voice going, hey. Sophie immediately burst into tears. Evelyn's like, I'm fine. Sorry I didn't find you before I left, but things were just getting too crazy and I was freaking out so I had to leave. Ah. - Wow, well now I'm just furious at Evelyn. - You're both mad. - She knows they don't have service. - You don't fucking do that to your friend. You just say to them, I'm gonna go home. - You just say, I'm tired. - You can't do that. Yeah, you cannot, like, no. Oh my god, now I'm so relieved they got on the boat. - Sophie is like flooded with relief. Like she's like, I am thrilled that my friend Evelyn is alive, but I am not in the mood to talk to her because I am furious. So when she gets back to the hotel room and Evelyn is not there, she does not care. She's like Evelyn probably just went out for breakfast or something, she ignores it. Also, as we've mentioned many times, she's been awake for a million hours so she's like, whatever, I'm going to bed. When she wakes up at 7 p.m. though, after her nice, leisurely long nap, Evelyn still isn't there. And now, because she's well rested, she's also a little more aware of her surroundings and she looks over and she's like, hmm, not only is Evelyn not here, but her bag is gone. - Wait, what? - It is now 7 p.m. You've woken up from your nap, Evelyn's gone. Her bag is gone. What would you like to do? - I mean, have they tried calling Evelyn? - Like, they have said it, call her by a million times. - You should have immediately-- - A alert the front desk. - Immediately, what? - Hex Evelyn and be like, glad you're alive. We're at the hotel. You're not here just making sure that you're okay. - Okay, yeah, we're fine. - We've been very freaked out. We're going to sleep, but you better be here for dinner. - Proof of life, please. Like, where are you now? - Yeah. - We're not at our hotel. - I'm sorry, no. - That voicemail could have been from, it was probably from hours before. - Yeah, she could have, she's okay. - And taken at any time between like 3.30 when she left the voicemail. - Is the lamp still there? - Yeah, the lamp is still there. - Good question. - Okay, Sophie is like, I'm not calling this bitch. I have Evelyn on Find My Friends. So Sophie navigates over to Find My Friends. Evelyn is at the airport. She's at the airport without telling them. - Sophie calls her, no answer. Like it rings, but no answer. She calls again, no answer. Calls at third time, the phone was to voicemail. Evelyn's dot is no longer at the airport. She has Irish goodbye to the entire trip. - What? - What? - Yes. - No. So all her stuff was gone. They didn't notice that all her stuff was gone. All her stuff was gone. - And I assume now that last leg of the trip can't happen, 'cause they don't even know the plans. But they presumably all contributed money. - Is Evelyn international woman of mystery, Anna Delvie? - Like, I know I'm getting serious Anna Delvie vibes. Claire and I have been down to a deep rabbit hole of German Ares content. - Fake German Ares content. - That's all I can see here, fake German Ares. Is she a scammer, she's a bad friend. - She's a bad friend for sure. - I've got nothing, what happened? I mean, of all the times to leave, I mean, it just seems like she picked that time because no one would be around to stop her. - Yes. - Did she think that she was literally being held captive by them, that she had to wait until they were on an island without cell surface? - We got this story through someone who knows Sophie, so it is hard for me to pin into what Evelyn was thinking. But I think she just like got sick of it and was like, I'm not fucking doing this anymore and went home. - Okay, I respect your right to be over it and maybe even be like, I need to end this trip. But you have to tell people that and you can't like strand them and just be like, I'm sorry, I've canceled an entire leg of our trip. You have no access to any of the things I've got. - Oh, that was her way of contributing to the trip. So no, she has gotten this trip essentially for free. For free. - Feels like a scam. - Feels like a scam to me. - She's canceled. - The next morning, they like drive to Bangkok. It's another in Bangkok to do the rest of Jenny's leg. They still have Nia's leg and technically Evelyn's leg. But now you have this like empty spot for Evelyn's leg where you were supposed to be in Cambodia and you have no idea what you're supposed to do and also your flight leaves from Cambodia. - I'm writing Evelyn of very bitchy. Just like very goodgy. Like, I would go home. - No, I think I would lay out exactly what I need from her and I would start with a strongly worded message of just like, so glad that you're not dead. We were so worried. Given that you have decided to abruptly leave all of us without warning or any care for our safety, please send us the itinerary as well as Venmoing each of us like X amount of money for the trip that you have received for free. And you have to hammer home the emotional distress of the entire situation. - Yeah. - Play, you gotta make her feel guilty. While they're in Bangkok, they like, Sophie checks her phone and Evelyn is like, safe at home. She's in the United States now. - And no contact. She no contact. - No contact. - She didn't answer anything. - What? - She, what the fuck? - Does text Evelyn? I don't know what she said, but I assume it was something and they never hear from her again. - They never hear from her again. - Wait, what? - Did they ever talk to her again in their whole life? - Wait, we're gonna get there. - Okay, sorry. - Sorry. - So I just haven't already. I'm like, this has to be the final page. Oh my God. Okay. - So everyone is in such a foul mood. They like, make it through Bangkok. They make it through wherever Nia is. And they're all like, you know what? We can't do this anymore. Like, we are all bitter and frustrated and like, want to kill each other. The person who like, sent us in this gossip said that if you were watching their like Instagrams of the trip for the first like three weeks, it was like photos every day, everyone's having a great time and then nothing. - Oh no. - So like people knew that there was like shit going on. They just weren't sure what it was. So they just moved to their flights from Cambodia and flew home. And that is the end of our story. I do have some final updates for you. - Please. - Which are. - Thank God. - Jenny, sweet talk to the stewardess and to letting her bird fly on the plane. (laughing) - Wow, being pretty really does. Evelyn was like, I just don't wanna be there when she definitely gets what she wants just because she's tall and pretty. I just can't handle it. I have to leave without saying a single word. - I have to ruin everyone's trip. - She's looking out for her own. She's setting a healthy boundary. She's looking out for her own emotional health. (laughing) So Jenny arrived back in Los Angeles with her precious bird lamp. And they live happily together. Maya and Maya went to work for some big law firm. Evelyn also moved to Los Angeles after graduation. And the last time Sophie was there, she saw both of them. - Like, like saw them? - What? - That's, yes. - Like together. - That's the free of them. - She saw it or separately. So Sophie has reconciled with Evelyn, that's what you're saying. What did what's the explanation? I don't know I don't know Sophia Sophia was able to be convinced by Avalon that what she did was forgivable and therefore was like soundly based in something but not something terrible could you be convinced in the dead because Sophia is still friends with Ginny so how I like what what would you have to be told by a friend to forgive this behavior you know what and to ever be friends with them again maybe Sophie is just like a really sort of a sucker and also really loves her friends are friend of a friend said like Sophie just like cannot be in a fight with anyone like she it's called quietly not being friends anymore my god I sort of get it because I am so allergic to like thinking that someone's mad at me and so I think I understand Sophie a little bit but I think this might be like a bridge too far even for me like you ruined our collective trip you made me think you were dead you then like sent a cryptic voicemail and then ghosted me when I tried to figure out where you were and you just flew home and no that is extremely selfish behavior that's not a person you should be friends with she got it just to cut her out do you want to hear the final kicker yes there's more oh my god yeah I've all had never planned the Cambodia leg oh what did I say scammer scammer she was like I'm just gonna find a reason to dip before my leg yeah she and she was laying the groundwork from moment one she's like wow Maya Nia so annoying and then she's like wow this girl Jenny is too hot for her and then she's like why would I go on this van and then she just panics she she left when she had one they're gonna find out if she had left when it was the van thing and the changed itinerary that would have looked kind of legit and then said she just waited until the middle of a perfectly normal night and was like you know what I'm just gonna do now this seems like a nice time well I don't understand what she was thinking if I hadn't planned it I would be so panicked I wouldn't even get on the initial planning to deal with it when the consequences came and what she's realizing is like true just don't deal with the consequences you leave she literally is Anna Donnelly oh my god they're everywhere the the only explanation I have been able to come up with for this is that you have to leave when no one is around because otherwise they're gonna demand the itinerary yeah yeah yes oh tactically it completely makes sense like now I understand why she did this but it's like that very much scammer problem in that it would seem sort of rational and fair to leave at the point where you're like I'm being like I'm not I don't consent to this new itinerary this new I've traveled I don't consent but yeah then your present they can demand the money or the itinerary yada yada but if you leave during the party then no one there to demand anything from you but it's really obvious that you're doing a scam but then Sophie's still friends with her so she gets everything she wants we you know what wow I hate I found a new mortal enemy her name's Emily Claire and Emma thanks so much for coming on the pod oh my god we're both so angry now where where can our listeners find you where would you like to be found you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Emily Debrose and you can find our newsletter rich text at Claire and Emma dot substock dot com and you can find our podcasts on Instagram at Claire and Emma pod and I'm on Instagram Twitter at Claire eFalon although I'm mostly hibernating so you will never see me thank you both so much for coming on thank you for having us this has been an honor thank you so much for listening to the first season of normal gossip if you disagree with our takes or have a gossip story to share please email us at normal [email protected] or you can leave us a voice mail at 2679 gossip and please don't forget to send us your family gossip for our bonus episode you can follow me on all social media at Atmicony Kelsey and you can follow the podcast on Instagram at at normal gossip thank you to Calvert Caitlin Alex and Eleanor for doing the voice acting for our drunk girls thank you to Danny for the gossip this podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Loughlin thank you to projects editor Justin Ellis and editor-in-chief Tom Lay and the rest of the defector staff defector media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company if you love this podcast and want to support us subscribe to defector.com I'm Kelsey McKinney and remember you did not hear this for me.