S1 Ep1: What it means to be LGBTQ+ today

The sun shining, birds are singing and all feels right in the world. Until the season changes and suddenly you lose your motivation to get out of bed. In fact, one in five people experience some form of depression no matter the season or time of year. At the American Psychiatric Association Foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all because we want you to live your best life and be your best you all year round. Please visit mentallyhealthynation.org to learn more. I'm Cristania, the girl with a big hair and editor-in-chief of AZ-MAG, an online publication for LGBTQ people of colour. And my name is Lexis, I'm a gay man, writer and also apparently what happens when you let your boy play with dolls. And welcome to Community! For our first episode, we thought we'd dive right on in there and rip the plaster off straight away with the biggest of big questions. What on earth does it mean to be LGBTQ? It's 2018 and we, as the LGBTQ community, have gone through a change. We've apparently won all of our legal rights and protections and we've seen off the bogeymen who wanted to hurt us. We're told that we've never had it so good and many people, some even from within the community, question whether pride is still necessary. I first realised that I was a lesbian at a very young age and over the years that I've grown, matured and found myself within my own identity and the community. I'd say that to me being LGBTQ means different things to different people. Your experience is definitely effect how you will interact with this LGBTQ identity. But to me, ultimately, it means that you're extra special, that you live outside of the heterosis, patriarchal norm. And we can live and make our own rules. I would never change being gay. I absolutely love it. And I think to me being LGBTQ means that when I was younger, because I was pushed out of the mainstream, read "petch sexual norm" and made to feel different. As I've grown up, I felt freer and more able to build a life for myself on my rules, on my terms. I'd say the biggest gift that comes from being gay is that not only makes it stronger, but can instilling you such a great empathy for other people. It's clear that between us we don't have the answer and dialect facts and figures, so let's make a start. Since 1983, the British Social Attitude Survey has asked the question whether they think sexual relationships between two adults or the same sex are always wrong, mostly wrong, sometimes wrong, rarely wrong, or not wrong at all. And the good news is that we're almost at 70% to the positive. Downside is that still 30% of the people around us who believe that we're wrong that our relationships aren't valid and that we're not equal to them. Which, side notes, if we look at how that question is asked, it's even loaded against us. That's four negative options, an only one positive option. Despite its policy legislation apparently being on our side, you got research from in the last year, 35% of LGBTQ people have hidden their identity in the workplace. Because they were afraid of discrimination, a shocking figure that rises to 42% for black, Asian and minority ethnic LGBT staff. While these facts and statistics can give us sobering snapshot of some of the difficulties we face, it's really important to remember that they don't tell the brilliance of our community too. We are winning our journey through equality. People are feeling more and more able to come out and live happy lives at younger ages. The strength of our community, our joy to have and ability to bounce back and keep flying our flag in the face of adversity can't be reflected in statistics. We need to start the conversation and so for our first panel show, recorded live at the Ex Hotel in Shoreditch, we were joined by Rita Loy, CEO and Founder of Gaysians, Stefan Zakaya, Film Director and Producer, Chloe Filani, writer and Lewis Corner, Devt Editor of Gay Times. We kicked off the conversation by asking the panel what it means to be LGBTQ today. The next voice you'll hear is Rita. She bravely took on the opening question and got things going. [Applause] It's about being part of a community and I think that's one of the most beautiful things about it. I think one of the best things we have is that we can share our experiences and feel like we're part of a movement. Yeah, and to add to that, I think that. That's Lewis' voice. All of us have a common experience in coming out, so we all have that psychological event in our life. And as soon as we come out, we are part of this community and kind of get to explore what that means to us. It's not bigger than just the LGBTQ community. When I came out as trans, I thought, now I've found a sense of belonging. I found home in a way. So it was about accepting myself first before being able to accept that other people on the outside of me will not accept me. So it's also about being authentic, it's also about being true to yourself. It's also literally just owning who you are as an individual. So yes, I've come out and maybe the tea is attached to the LGBT, but that doesn't define all of me. You've just had Stefan describing his coming out. And next we'll hear Chloe sharing her thoughts. I feel part of me, understanding historically why it's even LGBT in the context of we all know, that we're all just as gendered and hair somewhere and but somewhat hair. And we all push the margins reason why we have this term. And I think one thing that has been a massive understanding of mine is like, we realistically, the LGBT movement has mainly focused on the LGBT and the two stone wall even put out the statement it wasn't till 2016. We haven't been thinking about the trans people. And that is a realization that the community, what that is, has not really taken into account of what does trans mean, what does gender mean. The context what Chloe is talking about here is that stone wall, you're its biggest and leading LGBT key charity. Until four years ago did not consider the trans identity to be part of their fight for civil rights and left them to the side. When the new CEO Ruth Hunt took over, she said that stone wall must apologise for the harm they have caused. And she quickly said about writing this wrong, stating, "However you identify, we must all be trans allies." As we keep talking about community, we then had to ask the panelists how they viewed community and what it meant to them. I feel like community is almost a support group. When I hear the word community, I feel a sense of warmth, again a sense of belonging. But it's not always like that. So coming out as a transgender man or a man of the trans experience, I felt a huge resistance from the community itself. And I don't know whether that was because obviously, you know, I transitioned from female to male or whether that was because I was black and I was transitioning or I also identify as black British maker. This is deaf and voice speaking. So the community in my head that I felt most connected to was my family at the time. So as soon as I made that decision, it's like my family literally just kind of like, literally come with me before my eyes. So therefore I had to seek another support system, another support group in order to feel loved in order to feel accepted. Even though I had to do that internal work myself first and foremost, it was almost that I needed that extra support around me outside of me. So when I think of community, I think of a group of people that I can connect with, a group of people that I can basically just that can embrace me for who I truly am. Steph and then went on to reveal his journey to acceptance, had a surprising twist, one that I wouldn't have anticipated. I felt the most acceptance from cis, gendered, heterosexuals, which is crazy because that's what I thought. That's where I meet the resistance. And the LGBT community. And I'm speaking about it today because I feel like it's an important issue to raise because there is still a lot of resistance when you know people choose to go on a transitional journey, you know, transitioning through, you know, obviously medically or just transitioning mentally. So again, I had it from lesbians, you know, why are you doing that, you know, you're just seeking attention, ex-white and zed, and it was just like really seriously, this is my sole decision and you know, you're projecting your insecurities in your beliefs onto me because you feel uncomfortable with the way I want to live my life. And that was again from the LGBT community, even from gay guys as well. It was very difficult. Although what Stefan said might be quite surprising to you, I can empathise with him because being other with and other is something that I deal with. I'm not just a lesbian, I'm also black. And sometimes that can feel isolating and for safety, you want to stick to what you know. Transphobia in the LGBT community is rife and some people are not willing to unlearn their bad behaviour. Sounds like we need more context again. Two in five trans people who would like to undergo medical intervention as part of their transition haven't done so yet, simply because they fear the consequences it might have on their family life. In the last year, a third of trans people have been discriminated against because of their gender identity when visiting a cafe, restaurant or nightclub. And more than two in five trans people avoid certain streets because they don't feel safe. If you look at housing, one in four trans people were discriminated against when looking for a home. The knock on effect of this, being the 25% of trans people have experienced homelessness. Chloe made it really relatable when she next broke. There have been killings of trans women before where we've even been reporting this stuff. This has been consistent and throughout history. So when it comes to community, personally, I have found it with other Black queer women, be there lesbians or also trans women. And I say that because it's like, my race comes into account when it comes to my identity and how I navigate the world. And then my womanhood and understanding what my womanhood has been, has been so much more of a finding community within that and then nights that I go to that's specific towards that and sort of celebrate Black queer women and themes and non-burning people. But realistically, I don't find any solid attitude. I found that really troubling to be perfectly honest. I just simply hadn't realised how bad that lack of solidarity had been. I think there's also that realization that with the whole marriage movement that was really centered around sort of same sex people and very specifically white and middle class as well. And yes, that created a lot of change, but realistically that didn't really create change for trans people because we're more about agenda. And even with me personally, I would see myself as heterosexual and what does that mean when I'm coming to a club? And like, "Get your guys out, looking for me, basically." So, yeah, there is a lot that we actually need to talk about. And if we actually want to again maintain this LGBT and the T-NOT falling off it. Yeah, there has to be a real look at ourselves with misogyny, race to the transphobia within the community and actually deal with those problems before you can even talk about like to this heterosexual people attacking us. Like, we actually have to deal with what's happening in our community. The hate is definitely coming from inside the house. If we look at how race amplifies the issues of sexuality that people face, it's not just the wide heterosexual world doing it. Shamefully, we're doing it to our own community too. According to research by FS Magazine, a horrifying 80% of Black men and 79% of Asian men have experienced racism upon the gay scene. Sanjay Seud Smith, Director of Empowerment Programs at Stonewall, said of online dating that the frequent appearance of phrases such as "No Blacks, no Asians, no chocolate, no curry, no rice, no spice." He'd become the modern day versions of "No Blacks, no dogs, no Irish." I think with gay times in particular, over the last 12 months, we've done a really big push to be like, "Do you know what? We can't just appeal to gay and by many anymore, we have to appeal to the whole community." So instead of just having a trans cover site that's one a year, we've fully integrated it into the to amplify the voices throughout the whole year, through cover shoots or inside. So we're trying to bring that community and have those discussions within the community while addressing the issues outside of the community towards all of us as the LGBTQ community as well. I'm glad that Lyrist touched on this and I think that gay times are moving in the right direction. Their most recent covers and features have been quite surprising. "Lack of representation was exactly why AZ Magazine was set up." Lyrist continues. Almost when you come out, everyone thinks that, "Oh, you come out as gay, oh, hey, we're like everyone except you, it's fine." And then you go from there and you live a happy life. You actually have to completely deconstruct everything that you've been taught from that moment of how life should be, how society will accept you, and rebuild who you were supposed to be. And that could take another 10 to 15, 16 years. It's almost like we're growing up twice and that's kind of been my experience. Like, when I think when I came out as gay, I don't really know anything about the LGBTQ community. I barely knew what it meant to be gay. And so that's been a journey of discovery from myself, but through my 20s, when you're supposed to sort of be the response, but I don't know everything. And yeah, it's kind of getting rid of all those things that you've been taught you're not supposed to like. The whole toxic masculinity thing comes into play, where, oh, is that too feminine? Who cares? Like, you shouldn't have to care about that. Or is that too that? Is that too something else? And it takes a lot of time and work to break that down. And it also takes a lot of time and work to break that down and not care what others think. That speaks to me deeply. My sexuality got labelled by people at my school, before I'd even really processed my identity. And it was used as a weapon against me. As a result, I felt incredibly rejected from masculinity and straight spaces. I was hounded out of places I'd previously felt free and school become a battlefield. If I'm perfectly honest, I still have to clock myself and that inner-shamed voice that sometimes will worry about how I come across, how I look, my mannerisms, or even this podcast, how camp my voice makes sound. And even though logically and rationally, I really don't care. I really don't. It's not the society that I was raised in. We were all brainwashed and so to one pick, all of that past trauma, almost the way that we're brainwashed into thinking we all have to conform to a very narrow range of what's being a man is. It's tiring. Lewis spoke about how freeing yourself from assumptions and admitting you don't have it all figured out can really help you break these things down. I think interacting with other people from the community I grew up in the countryside where I don't think I've ever really met a gay man or an openly gay man until I was like 17. And so you learn from other people's experiences and also a big part of it is listening. Don't assume you know everything. You don't assume you know the way you feel or the way you should act. Is listen and observe. What I found is that most of my Asian friends, actually none of my Asian friends were queer. None of my queer friends were Asian. So I was exploring my queer identity in one place and separately exploring my cultural identity or ethnicity. So the two were not coming together. So I felt that I was building community in spaces and with people making those connections but I wasn't doing that and I didn't feel whole really. I still felt like I was living a double life which I think a lot of LGBTQ people can relate to and a lot of Asian people can relate to. And that was the reason behind starting Gaysians was to I ended up creating a community or a space and a platform for us to meet and putting on events and coming together and that's what's great about now is that we can build those sorts of movements with social media and technology and the internet. The crossing of different identities, ones that may oppose and not naturally interact were something that Rita then elaborated upon on how she found peace with her conflict in identities. I can relate to Rita's experience growing up. I was convinced I was only Black Jamaican lesbian in the village and Black women are constantly erased from media even in everyday life people act like they can't see you on the tube. So being a lesbian on top of that just felt like more discrimination, more pain, more hurt. But finding other Black LGBT+ people was absolutely liberating for me and I felt so lucky to live in a big city at the time where I could meet other people that looked like me and had similar experiences and it probably saved my life. I started researching and going to events and just sort of grassroots meeting people and there were all these amazing charities and support groups and other activists out there that were going through similar things. So we came together and started working together. Last week we saw legislation change in India section 377 being repealed which is India saying, "Yeah, okay, you can be Indian and queer at the same time." And I'm like, "Yeah, I know, like we're queer, you know, we know that." I was going to swear by, you know, I think that a lot of our identities or facets of our identity have been seen as separate or taken from us and I think it's about reclaiming those in ourselves and then finding ways to connect in those ways with other people. One thing that we've noticed is the way people are identifying is differing and diversifying. We're not just the gay community anymore. It was gay and lesbian then we included the B and T and it's grown into an ever-increasing spectrum which I think is brilliant because people feel the freedom to express their sexuality and identify however they wish. While it's great that some people are finding their new identities and the acronym is expanding to represent that, I do understand how a lot of people can feel left behind and resisted to this change. For me, it's only very recently that I've forced myself to be okay with the term queer. To me and probably a lot of other gay men, queer is a really violent and aggressive word that was used against me. It was spat at me along with the F word and by that I mean the one with a couple of G's and T and I was really badly gay-bashed and that's what I can remember being shouted at me before I lost consciousness and ended up in hospital. However, I can recognize that there is a strength in the way that some people are working to reclaim the word queer and to find that label for themselves and perhaps if they don't feel comfortable identifying as gay then maybe I should take the steps towards them and make myself comfortable with the term queer. Read to elaborate on the diversification of our identities. I think there is a lot of isolation and loneliness that a lot of us feel when we first start to discover our own identity and when we share it with people, their response often becomes how we end up feeling about ourselves as well and if it's negative, which it's sadly often is, that has an impact. There's a real need for us to be able to find connections and find our tribes and I think social media and technology really helped us to do that. We want to identify with a particular label so that we can understand ourselves, place ourselves in our environment and our world and then find other people that we can connect with based on that. We can learn all these new labels for ourselves or understand each other, or be like, "Oh wait, that is me." I'm not that term because it's very like, I think sometimes obviously for some people who is not fully uncompresent of their identity. So yeah, there's this big push for having more labels and not that I feel like these for me labels don't narrow yourself. They give you a foundation in which you can then be a person in the world because, like, person for me, it wasn't until when I started transitioning and understood my womanhood and understood my blackness also came into that and my transness also came into that in which I was like, "Okay, it wasn't really about being consistently happy, which they always say, but it's like, I have bad times, I have depression or this other thing, but now I have this foundation of my black trans womanhood in which to fall back on of, okay, this is me, what is happening, how can I change that?" I think labels can really help activate that sort of like, you're being, you're beginning, so what you have to deal with, like, you're not dealing up with no foundation because that's probably the worst to be like, "I have no idea who I am." I was really pleased, Chloe, made this point and made so much sense. I mean, a few years ago, there was a definite push to drop labels that we were going to reject them that labeling ourselves and our sexuality was reductive, but I hadn't actually consciously considered the way she talks of them as a basis of strength. She really hit the nail on the head with her next point. We live in a society where labels are pushed onto us and it's almost like trying to claim something before someone claims that for you. Lewis agreed and expanded upon how labels can be useful in our understanding of our identity and how our attitudes towards labels and whether they're needed or not has shifted. I think a lot of labels maybe 10, 15 years ago came with a very stereotypical idea of what that means and I think the new generation coming through is very much taking that and owning it and redefining it. And then that's probably why there is a desire for all these different labels so people can understand their experiences and their voices and what they're going for. And it's also a sense of representation. People want to see themselves represented in culture, mainstream culture and within the community. And if you've got a label on it, then you can identify with that amongst the stories being told or the voices being heard. In the past when our community was first coming after the shadows and beginning its journey towards civil rights and equality, our four queers and by that I mean those brave men and women and trans individuals who took to the streets and fought for our rights. They were forced to frame our identity in a political and social context that was entirely different from our life today. The world they were operating in was oppressive violence and they had to define our identity in retaliation to what was being said about us, rather than who we wanted to be and how we wanted to live. With this in mind, I wonder how much of that came into the labels and community identity that was created then. And now that we have fortunately moved on and progressed our rights, are we seeing our changing identity as a natural evolution and growth? The language changes over time, therefore surely the way we speak about our identity has to evolve too. Exactly. The term homosexual only entered the Oxford English Dictionary in 1976. And before that the term gay originally used to refer to prostitutes. Yeah, it has been about rights and it has been about just fighting to even exist and feel that we have the right to be here as we are. We have also had the HIV and AIDS crisis that has made our community focus in terms of our energy but also in terms of funding and charitable support and where access has been. So it is really quite recent even here in the UK that we are in a position where we are able to now really start to explore and develop community in a broader sense and a more inclusive sense. If that is what we collectively want to do and choose to do, which I certainly hope it is. So yeah, I think that there have been certain challenges and distractions along the way and around the world obviously where we are still seeing those challenges being fought. It kind of feels like maybe the community is maturing. Like they are kind of getting a sense of who they are and what they should be and what they deserve rather than trying to like, wow, fighting. The energy isn't being spent fighting on rights, there is still a lot more to do but now we can sort of sit and be like, okay, what do we represent as a community and what should we stand for as a community. And so I feel like those conversations are starting to happen now and it is 50 years over 50 years since the legalisation of homosexuality in England and Wales. So it is kind of becoming into our own a bit, kind of all that history is there and we can learn from that and build a future from it. As we see the community diversify in its identification, does that have any impact on our shared sense of identity and community? Are we at risk of moving too far away from each other? I feel it has made the community look at itself in a way that they are realizing there is a difference that there is a lot of problems in the community. I feel like it is not really possible to just even say LGBT anymore and just like have one person be that image, it is just not possible to have that anymore at all. Like I think it is great that there is a community but I don't know what the steps forward would be. I don't think there is a singular homogenous community anywhere in the world and I think that I see it as a gift to be part of the LGBTQ spectrum because, you know, like so the beginning is about we have this gift and this opportunity to embrace difference in ourselves and difference in others and we are a microcosm for everything that is happening in the world. And I think that we are in this information age right? Rita argues that this changing time gives us permission to ask more questions of ourselves. Like who am I, what is my identity, what is my place in the world, how do I connect with other people? Is this person just because they live at all the same intersections as me do I even connect with them, you know, because a lot of the time you don't, right? A lot of the time you can let the people you most connect with happen to be very different intersections to your cells. But I think yeah the journey for me is really now about moving into that space of connection and spiritual awakening that where we are right now is a part of us getting there. We have to go through this period that we are out together. It's almost like we need our era of enlightenment where we kind of we celebrate everything that's different within the community and about the community and support it and evolve with all of those facets involved. While we explored this view of our identity Stefan chimed in with a different perspective and the argument for stripping back the way we identify. We need to embrace that the fact that we're human first and foremost and I can connect with you to you as a human being before race, before culture, before gender identity, before sexual identity, before all these labels that we create, we've just basically got to just think you know we're human and that's it. As we began to wrap up the panel talk we asked each the panelists for small, easy steps that everyone in the room, Chris Daniel and I, and now all of you lovely listeners, do just start improving the bonds within our family. I think very real it's especially when it comes to trans people, help fund our transitions, help get us taxis when it comes to like, especially the ones in early stages who are trying to fight navigating society, who get harassed in the streets for just like walking existing world. People we need to understand like, transition is like a second career. You have to have a job on top of having another job and just like sort of I guess with when it comes to sexuality, you know, yeah you'll fit your, I must be coming a new person, trans people are like, especially ones who do medical transition, we're coming a whole new person. And like that's really hard to deal with that and especially upon when it comes to race or with that you're dealing with also like other situations of society and a lot of the time, there's so much statistics out there, loads of trans people do not get hired. So if we want to really do that activist community work is do the trickle down effect we live in the capitalism. There are a lot of a lot more white gay men in high positions in power, we need to trickle down, we need to help each other out in a very real physical way. Like yes, you can, you know, say, oh, I love you, care about you, but I love you, care about you, but I've got this nice high rise apartment and you're poor, escorting and you don't want to like having to do that. Lose of trans girls are still escorting like that's a real thing, loads of them are out here because they can't get real jobs, they can't afford to take care of themselves or they can't afford their hormones or that surgery is that they need to survive in the world, that is very harsh on us, that is very, is trying to kill us. And that's the real reality of that like if you want to be a part of community or say this is a community that is doing that work to care each other, we need to take care of each other. As you know, I mentioned historically the LGBT part has forgotten trans people so we've been trying to figure it out, but still we're, you know, we're still dying, we're still fighting and we're not surviving. So gay marriage has come and like even me I see it a lot more in workplaces. is where people are more chill with gay people, but when it comes to trans, they're like, what the hell? So you need to be your own idea of think about your position, what you can do. Maybe you can't give a lot, but sometimes it's doing those small things or walking home with someone if you know that trans and if they're in danger on the street, even that's a lot that you could do for that person. So yeah, those small steps. - I think it's really simple for me, just to act from a place of compassion. Do to people what you would want done unto you, treat people how you would want to be treated. So the change starts by feeling love. - Chloe's suggestions on supporting trans women were helpful, especially as she gave options for people on different pay grades. Stefan's point was basically telling us not to be shit humans, which is something I think we can all manage. - Whether that's based on race, gender identity, even expression. So to the biggest stories today was the fact that queer eye and RuPaul's Drag Race won loads of Emmys last night. And they are, those are mainstream programs that are showcasing the wide breadth of gender identity and sexual orientation from different backgrounds. But then on the flip side, there was a story about a really popular gay nightclub in London basically saying that if a guy wants to turn up to their doors and heels, they're not going to be let in. And they don't want anyone fair acting in the club and they keep them out. And we should not let that be happening in 2018. That there proves that we've got loads more work to do in that area within the community. And I just think the way we can challenge that is stand up to it and then don't go. Like some recently said to me, your money is almost like a ballot card. How you spend it is almost a vote in favor. If you agree with something or you don't agree with something. So put your money with things that you agree with. Lewis makes such a good point. We can as a whole, unfortunately, let quite a lot of bad behaviour go unchecked. I won't name the club nights. But as Lewis mentions, in the last month, there was an incident where a club owner went on a very aggressive rant against femme men and anybody who didn't fit in with his very narrow definition of what it means to look and be a man and be masculine. And honestly, sure, you might not be that guy in heels that wasn't allowed in. But in truth, I believe that everybody, actually regardless of sexuality, have probably been affected by toxic masculinity in this way. And worried whether we're too effeminate, too masculine, or not masculine enough. We only escape these pressures if we challenge that behaviour when we see it. I'd say there are three things that we can all do every day. The first of those is have gratitude, real gratitude for this journey, because this is your journey. And no one else can judge you on it. No one else can tell you they're wrong. It's for you to enjoy and celebrate your life and have gratitude for everything that you have within it. And the people you have in it, and feel self. As I say, the second thing is do something for yourself every day. Like ask yourself how you are. And what's the gift that I can give to myself every day? Be kind to yourself. Because sometimes when things are really tough, you just don't want to leave the house that day. And think about something nice that you can do for you, whether that's just cooking a meal or speaking to a friend or whatever it is, watching a movie, whatever. I'd say the third thing is ask yourself what you can do that day for somebody else that is part of the LGBT community. And I think that's really important. And that's how we start to build this alliance. And that's how we own LGBTQ+ is think of somebody that you know that might be friend, might not be a friend. It might even be something on social media that you've. You know, someone that you follow that you think is cool or someone that follows you that is always retreating your stuff, you know, shout out to them and say hi. Like reach out to each other because this is how we become a family and that is. That is to me what family is supposed to be. After that beautiful answer from Rita, we handed over the microphone to the audience who asked us some lovely questions on the night. We've included one here. Hi, something specifically related to what Stefan said earlier. Right at the start actually was that as you came out as trans, you felt neglected by the queer community and you found your way in the cis-hat community. What could we do as cis-quares to make people like yourself and other people going through the trans experience more welcome? What I would say to that is just kind of like train shoes shoes with us for one day. Coming out as gay or coming out as lesbian is the same as similar experience as coming out as trans. So, you know, what are the feelings that you receive coming out? If you feel those feelings, then you'll be able to relate and understand how to treat us from that place. You're seeing where the commonality is and then navigating through that, you know, even down to the workplaces as well. I know the doors are open and as I said, but it's recruiting a lot more transgender people and not discriminating. It's even down to like, you know, application forms, you know, removing the trans box from the one, but that's my personal opinion. We've got ban, we've got woman, we've got trans, we've got, you know, non-binary, we've got, you know, all these different types of identities. But as soon as I take trans man, if I choose to, there's another page that I'm directed to where he asked me, you know, was this the, you know, gender you was born at? But if like, that to me is a trigger. So then I don't want to take anything. It's the same thing with, you know, the diverse intersection and application forms as well. Why do we need to kind of take into these boxes? The same way you would want to be treated, the same way you could treat somebody else. And that's how we would feel respected in that sense. Chloe made the point that it's the responsibility of the rest of us, those who are cisgendered to educate ourselves, rather than to always put the burden of explanation on people who are trans. You know, that's Google. There's so many trans activists on YouTube online that have put out so much information that like even with me, I found out how to transition because of Google. Like if I can do that, you can figure out how to just, you know, get the correct pronouns or how to approach a trans person the right way. It is very easy. Do I want to be a dickhead or a shit person? Or do I actually want to be kind and generous and treat someone the way I'd be treated? [APPLAUSE] What a way to end the panel, Shoei. I mean, you set in the audience for this one. What did you think? It was such an amazing night. The panelist really touched on topics and issues that I think we shy away from. It was great that Rita, Stefan and Chloe gave context to their experiences as non-white LGBT+ people because sometimes I don't really think it's always considered that your race plays such a role in your identity. I really appreciated Stefan and Chloe's fragments when talking about how the LG and B had treated them as trans people. Everyone always wants to pretend that it's all sunshine and rainbows. And that's definitely not the case. We have a lot of work to do in terms of uplifting and supporting each other. What stood out for you? Firstly, the shirt I was wearing actually went see through under the stage lights and I showed way too much skin, so apologies to everyone in the audience. But what stood out to me the most is that Louis Retrinai, all spoke of feeling empathy and solidarity between other lesbian and gay people. But that absolutely wasn't how Chloe and Stefan felt. I really hadn't realised before how distance many within the trans community felt and how we'd let them down. It's really well documented that it was Marcia P. Johnson, a black trans woman who kicked start the Stonewall right that triggered our modern day LGBTQ civil rights movement. And yet, we've left the tea by the wayside. I also really liked their very practical tips on how we can all start to build a stronger, more cohesive community and look out for one another better. What's the one thing that you're going to start doing? When I can, if I can afford to, I would like to support more black trans women. I'd never even considered the sheer cost of transitioning. We'll find a list of crowd funders like Chloe mentioned and we'll share them on our site under the Get involved section. To check these out, the charity's community pledges to support along with full episode transcripts, links to further reading and ways to listen. Go to www.communitypod.com You can follow us on social media by finding us at @communitypod or further conversation with our own hashtag #communitypod. Please subscribe for free, review, rate and share on Apple podcasts or your favourite podcast out. Just search community. That's QWNUNITY. Community is produced by Renae Richardson for Broccoli Content. Executive producer is Kevin Roskey, researcher, resmarino and our live show engineer is Ben Williams. Thank you to the Ace Hotel shortage for letting us record in your Miranda space. And a big thanks to Nick Brogdon at GIMPR for hooking us up with tickets to Dreamgirl's Kinky Boots and strictly boring musicals for our live show giveaways. Thank you, cast Denton for providing our live show technical advice. [Music]