S1 Ep 1: Caitriona Balfe Golden Globe Nominated Outlander Leading No1

This podcast, this podcast, this podcast, this podcast is Intel Enhanced. So in these quite strange and wild times that we're having at the moment in the world, we at She's a Rec HQ have decided to launch the podcast early. So we've been working really hard to get it going and to finalise as much as we can with what we've got so far, so we can get it out to you and give you some love in your ears. Hopefully we can get to the end of the season and guess we'll be able to record and we can get the final episodes. So in the meantime, enjoy. Alright, here we go. Hello, I'm Lauren Lyle and this is She's a Rec. You're a new favourite podcast where I sit down and chat to some of the coolest women of our time on their biggest recommendations of albums, films, books and their female heroes. I wanted to launch this podcast as I realised a lot of my artistic taste generally came from men. I could list you my favourite bands and they'd be men or my favourite films and they'd be directed by men, which is amazing, but I decided it would also be cool to have some brilliant women review and highlight some more brilliant women that have most influenced their life. Each week I'm going to be joined by a woman that I've asked to come in and prepare. The album, the film and the book by a woman that has most influenced their life. We'll have a chat and get to know who they are and why they're so cool and then we'll get into why these pieces of culture and arts have really influenced their life and made them who they are. A great way to experience this podcast is through the Interactive Entail App where you can see photos of the podcast recording. You can find links to the books and films that we're talking about and you can also download the albums and the She's a Rec playlist. For this first episode, it felt only right to start with none other than the magnificent goddess of a woman Katrina Balfe. Once the Chanel model and now a Golden Globe nominated actress and recently a producer and for a while now a close friend of mine through working on our show Outlander she's had a wild ride in life and as one of these smartest classiest and most badass woman I know we sat down in her gorgeous home with our cat Eddie and I couldn't think of a better place to start. Welcome to the first ever episode of She's a Rec. My new podcast. I'm Warren Lyon and I'm really excited. This is something I've wanted to do for a really long time and I'm very honoured to be joined on my first one. Can't think of anyone better to be on the first one. Can't think of anyone. So instead I've got Katrina Balfe. Hello, hello. You two, to let people know that maybe don't know who you are. I mean you're just like a casually four times Golden Globe nominated actress. Four times loser. Four times more losses than I've ever come near to. So that's fine. And you have had a very colourful creative life. I know you as my stepmother in Outlander hit international television series Outlander filmed all over the world on location in Scotland and apparently elsewhere. And good friend and all around I just think you're a very cool girl. Oh my God, thank you. No, you are. I think it's for this weird that I'm your stepmom. I know. I know. Because it's really your farty young. I mean, you are. I could, I mean, I could be your mother probably. True, maybe I shouldn't offend people by saying that. So I have, like, hair to story. Oh God. That is, I mean, you may have told me it. I don't know, because I don't feel like I've Googled you. I mean, maybe when I just started the show, I googled you like intimidation. I'm very, very scared about what this is going to be. Because I know the few times we've had late night conversations. This could be anything. So what? Yeah. Okay, so no, I don't think it's about well, you tell me. I know that you started in theatre when you were quite young in Ireland. And then you went on to be a model, like a proper, like a proper model. As opposed to, you know, you know, those ones that I wasn't quite doing the Marigold-Dish Club. You wouldn't be wonderful though. Which, you know, as somebody does do that. I mean, so we need those people, we need every one of these marigolds. But you then, like, you were in Victoria's Secret, like that. Oh, God. So that's what I mean. Like, you were in Victoria's Secret model. And Carl Lagerfeld, that loved you, you did things all over the giant. And then all of a sudden, Outlander turned up, but you weren't initially. They didn't naturally know that you were someone. And like, was it? No, I was acting. I wasn't acting when it came along. I definitely wasn't on anyone's lists for leading a TV show, for sure. Okay. So, is it true that you had sent tapes? They'd been seen and then they maybe, like, had got everyone had been pushed to the side. They hadn't found someone, and then they revisited, like, what was it? Yeah, I'm not. So, there's a couple of different versions of what went down. And I think two different people sort of have their own origin stories of how I was cast. Okay. My version, or the one that I know, like, I don't know, Karen Bailey from Stars has one. Tony Grafie has one. I was living in LA. And I was a desperate actor who was not working very much, but, you know, occasional job. Yeah. And I had sent in a tape from LA. And I went nowhere, didn't hear anything back. And then, a couple of weeks later, I was actually doing a couple of days on this indie film in Belgium. And on my way back, I stopped off in London and I met with some agents. And I met with my agent that I'm still with now. And he was like, you know, there's this project, and I think you'd be really good for it. And I was like, oh, I've taped for that. You know, I haven't heard anything. And he was like, oh, well, send me the tape. Let me look at it. And. So, you done this a different agent? Yeah. Well, so it was my manager in LA. I didn't even have an agent at the time. Ah! Yes. I was hiring. I was being hip-pocketed. You know, that term when, like, somebody in it. Yeah, they do this thing in LA where somebody hip-pockets you. Okay. So, it's usually either a very junior agent or an agent's assistant who wants to be an agent and they kind of like. They have. have you as a client. So, they'll send you out on things just in case and if you get a job, then they might. So, they'll take your money? Yeah, or they'll. If they think you might have potential. So, it was one of those. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. At least that's how I'm looking at it. Yeah, like. But anyway, so I met with Michael and he was like, saw the audition that I'd done and he was like, "Well, yeah, that's not really the right tone or whatever." 'Cause, you know, when my manager had sent me it, I was given two lines or whatever. So, I retaped and that's the tape that went in that eventually somebody saw and. And then. And then. And then I checked that agent because I was like, "You're a bloody good agent." But the turnaround was mad. Did you not get noticed and then they were like, "Can you get to Scotland for six years now?" Well, yeah, I didn't know it was going to be six years then. I think I turned that tape in. I didn't hear anything for about three or four weeks. Then I auditioned like on a Monday or Tuesday. I didn't hear anything until the next Tuesday and then I was in Glasgow on the Friday. Whoa, and you just moved? For a year. Did you know that I did not know? Did you. I didn't even know it was going to be a year. I remember, because everything started happening so quickly and. And all the guys had been cast. Everyone was already in Scotland in boot camp. Sam had been cast, I think, in June. Everyone was here. Everyone had departments. Everyone had, you know, they knew each other. They were already doing all of their acting, coaching, horse riding, everything. And then I show up and we were supposed to start filming the next week. But I had no costumes because. Oh my god, you hadn't fit for anything. Well, because I hadn't fit for anything. And then I arrived and there was no apartment. And I remember the first few weeks being so beautiful and all to me. And I, you know, coming from LA, there is no seasons. I was like, "Oh, this is going to be amazing." It's so romantic. It is so romantic. And Emmae's mind was here from New York and he's originally from Glasgow. And he walked me up all around Calvin Grove and Park Circus. And, you know, it was show me all the best parts of Glasgow. And I was like, "Oh, this is going to be so great." And then it rained for about six months. But I love that it was. Didn't they think that they would cast. It would take ages to cast Sam. Or at this age that I forgot, because it was meant to be the King of Men. And they'd find the girl really easily. And actually, like, they couldn't find someone to shoot. Yeah, I mean, not that they'd say that's what. You know, what Marilyn Ron have always said about it. I mean, I don't know. But that's kind of important. But you couldn't find someone that was good enough to do it. Like, they must have looked at hundreds of people and they couldn't find someone. I mean, I was in LA. I was doing nothing. All they had to do was just, you know, call me. Which they did. Eventually. So, it's worked out quite well then. It's been amazing. I mean, yeah. It's been an absolute job of a lifetime. I mean, these things do not come around very often. No. And here we are, six years later. And we all like each other. I know. Which is even crazier. I think that's the biggest compliment that directors have when they come on set, is that they all say that it's quite rare to meet a cast who are on what's brought to season five. And everyone still likes each other. Yeah. And that you and Sam, especially, haven't killed each other is an answer. You know, I think we have never had a proper argument. I think, like, we may have had. Possibly, I can count on one hand the times that we've sort of, like, snipped at each other. More of those. Once when I corrected his French, it was kind of laughing at him. Excellent. And he did turn around and tell me to fuck off. I can't imagine that I'm right. That's the one that I really remember. Because I was like, "Oh, shit. I'm really, I'm really close to lying here." It makes me think that I'm surprised as our hasn't turned round and given nails. Everyone else has any shit for their French. Because you don't really speak so much of it anymore. It's so season two. Yeah. This is when we had to speak a lot of it. So, the idea here being that we're trying to hear some really cool women. I'll quote some really cool women. I would love to start then by hearing. If you've had this journey, you have always started being an actor, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's what I always wanted to do. Ever since I can remember, I was that annoying child running around and doing my own plays, sitting looking at a mirror, talking to myself. So, yes. If you've always started being an actor, you've been into it. So, what is the film? The film is Wanda. It's by Barbara Loden. Actually, it's a Loden, I think. Loden. Hey, quick interjection here. Me and Kat just got really into this episode. And forgot to give you a synopsis of what Wanda was about, for those that might not know. Wanda is a 1970s American independent film. And it was written and directed by Barbara Loden, who also stars as Wanda in the film. And it's set in the pretty bleak coal region of East Pennsylvania. The film basically focuses on a woman drifting from bars to motels and from men to men. She hands over custody of her children because she knows that they're better off with her father and then goes on the run with a bank robber, so it was wild. We will link you to the newly restored movie, financed by both Gucci. I think because it looks so amazing and the costumes are so cool. And the film foundation on the entail app. All right, back to the interview. You come home from work, she's lying around on the couch. Kids are dirty, there's diapers on the floor. Sometimes the kids is outside, run around, nobody watching them. Wanda Garransky. Listen, Judge, if he wants a divorce, just give it to him. It's a film that I came across when I was living in New York. And I was trying to figure out, I think, at that time how to get back into acting, because I'd been away from it for so long. And, you know, there was a couple of actors at that time that really made a big impact on me. And this film was kind of the first film of that ilk that I'd seen made by a woman. And written by a woman and starring a woman. And it was just, it's very much the sensibility of what I would love to do. I mean, I don't think I've actually yet been able to do a job like this that would scratch that particular itch. Because she wrote starred and directed it. Did she direct it? Yes. She's amazing. She was an actress. She was married to a very famous director, Ilya Kazan. And this is this gorgeous little indie film that she made. I think she made it for like a hundred grand. And it was made in Pennsylvania and Connecticut. I'm just no good. You're no good. You can do it. You can do it. You can. Yeah. I, you know, I was a big fan of Casavetes and I loved Jenna Rollins and all that kind of stuff. And this was very much that kind of world because it was, it's very improvised. She started off with a script and it's then very loosely. Well, she talks about when she talks about the film that very quickly they sort of through that away. They used it as a slight guideline. But mostly they used non-actors. I mean, I think it was her. What about the guy that plays her at the end? She ends up with Mr. Dennis. Yes. Yes, he's an actor as well. But everyone else pretty much is, there are just people that she got to sort of play themselves or play versions of themselves in the film. That's interesting to see that because I, when I watched it, wondered if it was improvised, that was one of my first things. It was so natural. If it is, this is unbelievable acting, that they were all just so off the cuff. But it was like nothing I'd seen. It was kind of unnerving at times because it's so quiet as well. There's no music playing at any time. There's no real soundtracking at all. No. It's just sort of her. And that's the thing. The whole thing about this film is what I loved is she doesn't have this mad change in the middle of the film. No. It's not like something almost. I think you have to just relax. You have to just let it happen. And I think it's that exploration of a woman who is passive in her life, but also in crisis. But doesn't know how to do anything about it. So in some ways, doesn't do anything. I mean, it's crazy when you think about it because I think we're all so, you know, there's so often we want films where it's like you need that big shift. And people have to like overcome things. Huge drama. Huge drama. It's always about a lesson or it's always about how do we better ourselves or the downfall? And I just loved this. And it was just so different from anything I had seen. And it really, I don't know why. It was just one of those films that really, really stayed with me. And it was like, oh, I want to make things like that. Or I want to be in things like that. It came to surprise me when you'd said that when you told me what it was going to be because when I was watching, I was like, this woman is like super passive. She's kind of lacking in agency. She doesn't do it. But instead of wallowing in her misery. I mean, the scene in the courtroom when she goes in and the judge is like, you know, your husband is saying that, you know, he wants to take the children, you have two young children like. And she's like, well, they'd be better off without me. Yeah. To me, there's something brave in that, even though it's really, really dark and really awful. But it's really honest as well. It's that I'm not going to do what I'm supposed to do just because everyone else, like this is the role that's been given to me. And I think also, you know, a couple of years after I'd seen that, I was in, I mean, not Pennsylvania, but I was in West Virginia. And it was like one of those cold times. And it sort of had that, just that feeling of oppression. And you can just imagine those like wide, wide shots when you see her crossing. I'm walking, yeah. Oh, my god. It's almost like a quarter or something. Well, it's a slag heap, right? It's a cool field. And she's something so defiant. Yeah. She's in her hair and at. And she's in this like white and light blue outfit. And yet she's just walking in this sea of black coal. And it's so depressing and dark. And yet she's like determined to be something different. Even if she doesn't know what it is, she's just, she's going to not stay at home and not wallow in it. And it doesn't work out very well for her. Because it all gets quite bluntly and clad at the end. It does. I did not expect that at all. Yeah, at all. Because the whole time I was going, right, I've got to sort of relax into this being quite a quiet observation of a person. Just of someone trying to get through the world and her way. And then it all sort of kicks off in this guy. Like in the scene in the bar. When she walks in and thinks he's the bartender. And then you suddenly see the guy. The bartender with a napkin stuffed in his mouth on the ground. I was like, all right, okay, well, right, let's go. And then that's when it all kicks off. I already attracted in some ways to people who are like, down and out and living in the gutter. I don't know how your husband hears that. No, but it's just the, I just think we live our lives and we're so locked in our own heads. And we don't really, you know, as actors, I guess that's what we're always trying to do. We're trying to like get inside someone else's psyche and their thoughts and their feelings. But you'll never, ever really know what it feels like to be somebody else. And I think that that's like the most crazy thing about humanity. Is that we are so in some ways alone. Oh my gosh. Sorry. I'm really a happy person, buddy. No, you're right. You're absolutely right. It's such a, you are right. Like I have, I have strange thoughts sometimes of say you've not spoken to someone all day. And you suddenly realize this brain that's in your head and this body that you have. Like, that is it. No one can actually get in there. You can hide everything in there. And no one can actually know. But it's also, I think, conversely, like you can never understand another person's perspective truly. No. And I think that that's what films like this. And when people strive to inhabit a world that is so different maybe from my own experiences or whatever, I just find it so fascinating because it feels like, I don't know, it's almost within grass. But I don't know, because it's just a character study. And it's not about like filling a plot or, you know, you just live this person's life for an hour or two or whatever it is. Like we have this whole thing and I suppose the industry at the moment. And society generally of like strong women and trying to sort of strive for strong women. And actually I think she's an example of like just a very real woman. And someone that that's actually can be so interesting and so compelling to watch is just someone really travelling through life and suffering in many ways. And not necessarily being strong in a very common sense. Well, that's the thing. But what is strength? It's like survival is strength. And this idea that, you know, strength is just power. It's just so, I mean, it's just, it's another lie that we're all being fed. We're so multifaceted. I mean, in times of my life I've been super weak and I've made super bad decisions. You know, you're never, I don't know, you're never just one thing. You know, and you have to grow into moments and even if you've grown into a good place in your life, something may happen the next day and next thing you're on the floor again and you don't know, you know. I think it's that thing of like almost being, I'm sure we've all been in that position of being so emotionally exhausted from something. Or that's what it felt like to me that one that she was so emotionally exhausted and done that she almost had no option and no choice and just went and just did it. And I've definitely, I think that is so relatable and I think that's why that film has survived. And it's seen as such a cult classic, it's seen as such. But I think as well, like, I think nowadays we, and I do this about her, like, you know, whenever I knew we were going to have this conversation, I started thinking about it again. And now you kind of think, well, maybe she had postpartum depression and maybe that's what it is. And all of these things, but I think the language didn't really exist then, like that's the thing, you women then didn't have the luxury of these things and so they just existed. So, okay. So that's my film recommendation. So this is what I want. So I want people listening and women listening, but people, everyone, it's best isn't about not wanting to listen to guys or not liking the guys, it's about giving space for some women and being able to give some more heroes to people to go and have a look and not always look to the guys for what's really cool. And I think this is such a, this is such a phenomenal start because it is a focus on this really real woman and I think everyone should watch it. Men and women alike. I agree. Watch it. Watch it. Okay, so next we've got the book. Well, when you are sort of like, well, what do you recommend and what had an impact or what influenced you? I don't know, I always think of those things. I'm like, oh, what influenced me when I was a teenager? I don't know why I always go to like that point as if I came out of teenage dumb as a formed person with all of my influences intact. So I, for some reason, I went to like my favorite book of that time. I haven't read it in years. So I was like, I got really panicky then. I said to you, I think I want to change my mind. And I was like, what, why? Why do you want to change your mind? You were like, of course, it's just really fucked up. Well, because again, and yeah, this book is quite dark and we, well, it's not. I mean, it's, you know, I think most people have read this when they're a teenager. It was weathering heights. Yeah, sorry. It was on the school curriculum at one point, I think. It was, but it was a book that I had read probably about three or four times. And then we went to do, in Ireland, we do a leaving cert. Oh, yeah. That's our final exams, right, at the end of secondary school. And so it was on my English school curriculum then. And then I was like, oh, they're going to ruin this book for me. And it didn't. And I think that that's a real testament to, you know, a book that you can actually sit and study it and actually come away and still love it. I think I came away from school traumatised by Shakespeare and it took years, yet years to be interested in it again, because English that you'd sit in English and just drawn through. I mean, it was like, I actually had a good English teacher. She was mean and horrible to me, but she was actually really good. I had a good English teacher in that she was really nice to me, but I would leave class at least three times during every class, like class would probably be like an hour and ten minutes. And I'd be like, really need the toilet. She was like, just go. Just go. So I was so bored. I was just bored of it, which is weird that I've ended up doing this career. That was one of the subjects I actually liked was English. So then it's okay, so you studied weathering haze. And did you like pull apart? Do you remember doing that? Oh, yeah. And then it was funny because I was thinking about saying I remember writing essays about it and everything. And then one of the things that we used to study so much about it, like some of the stuff that we used to be told, I remember this being this big nature versus nurture thing with Heathcliff. And when I think about it now, I'm like, that's really fucked up that we were taught that. Why? Because I think there was, we were sort of being told that because he was this like orphaned youth that his nature was dark. And then all of the good nurture of the family and his manage and things, that that wasn't enough to save him. But I think that's really, really fucked up. And especially if that's the opinion that's being given. By the way, am I like curses on this? Oh, we've done that already. I've totally given up. No, I think I started anyway. Sorry, mum. Sorry, sorry. They met me at the road before. Yeah, they've already heard me come secretive of one of the family. They've all had to accept it. My dad asked me if I was, I'm happy now. And I was like, oh, okay, it's not the 60s. No, no, no, it's not. That's exactly it, dad. It's not the 60s, but thank you. I don't know what, she's a hipster. She's not worse. Kind of are. That's the real. Okay, thanks. I'll take it to come for the moment. But, so, weathering hates. I did a play of it probably about five years ago, but it was a sort of reimagined version. Oh. And I played, they reimagined it. Who were you? I was Kathy. Were you on a wire and did you fly by a window at any point? Oh my god, that, like, it's not even that far off. It's not even that far off. We had like a whole structure that every, there was like, 16 of us and the whole thing. And everyone played all the parts and came in and out. And you stood behind a huge, like almost like plastic curtain. And like, we had torches and we would like torch the lights and all the sort of thing. It was actually quite amazing. It was on the West End, thanks very much. That was amazing. It was, I can't say that I was like massively drawn to weathering hates as, when I was in school either. But when I started having a look at it for this, I was like, it's so dark. It's actually, it's actually a fascinating book. And the whole, like, Heathcliff coming and having nightmares and dreams. And everything in this castle, like, is sort of a bit of a horror story, really. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it's that kind of gothic literature, right? But it's about this overpowering love. And what happens, I think, when love gets perverted, you know, the ways that we can, the very best of us, can turn us into absolute monsters. I think that's one of the things that I find to do with love. Yeah. Well, because it's so much about, you know, he fell in love with Catherine and then, because he felt that she rejected him even though, you know, in the plot, he kind of overhears her saying that she could never marry him because he's below her station. And what he didn't hear was that she was saying, but, you know, I will never love Edgar. The way that I love Heathcliff and he will always be the person, you know, that has my heart. And because he didn't hear that, he sort of went off and he became this man of wealth and man of fortune. And then he came back just so hell bent on revenge and sort of showing everybody. Obviously, it survived this, like, however many years it's been. And it's this huge classic. Why do you think it has something like that? Why do you think that was like something that popped into your mouth? Because it really is. I guess, like, it's a teenager. It's perfect for teenage angst. You know, it's perfect for that. That's quite fascinating because if you've gone back, because I only asked you to think about the book film and album that had, like, influenced your life. I didn't say that I had to be something. I know. I think it's the fact that. No, I don't know. But I think it's interesting that you've, like, gone back to something that stayed. I know. I know. Back to something that stayed. Maybe I'm. Just a dream. I don't know. I guess I grew up in quite a small, not a lot going on place. And I guess, in some ways, I always was like, I need to get out of here. And I need to feel the world that I need to live a life. And I think I felt very suffocated where I grew up. And that's nothing against where I grew up. I love where I grew up now. But I think it's a teenager that's how I felt, like, I felt very suffocated. And I think, like, books like that had such a. Because they were so. I don't know, dramatic. And I was probably a complete drama queen. Yeah. You know, it just spoke to big feelings and big emotions and life of passion in some way. And I guess that at that time in your life, like, you just are yearning for something that. I don't know, it gives you a place to put these crazy feelings that you're going through. Yeah, and these big emotions that you're having. And remember, someone gave me a book when I was going through a really hard time. And they were like. And another friend was like, why was that poetry book? And it was very dark, poetry. And she was like, why the other friend was like, why have you given her this book? She's in a horrible place. Why have you given her to me? What was it going to make her for worse? And this friend was like, no, I actually thought it would give her words to the feelings that she's got. And she's having. And it's almost like. Because I wonder now if I don't know. It's kind of cathartic. You sort of like. You put your feelings into these characters and you sort of live vicariously through them on the pages. And you kind of go through all these feelings and all of the anger and the love and the. I don't know, all of those things. And it just gives you a place to put it. I know, now it's weird. Why did I go back to my teenage years? I mean, I read all the time. Why that? I know, and I wonder if it's taught now. Like I wonder if teenagers now. Because when you think about age. Now, it's like, sort of violent and abusive. Well, you always was. And that. Well, yeah, that's what I mean. But I think when you think about it now as me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like when I was reading it, I don't think I looked at it in those terms. You know what I mean? I was just wow. But it makes me wonder it, because she wrote it in that time, where it probably would have been so inappropriate to speak about a man. Like that would be quite why I think it would go on. It was received really badly in the beginning now. Has she died? It came out, I think. No, she hadn't died. I think she died soon after it came out. Because I know she kept a couple of reviews of the book in her writing desk. No way. And I don't think they were particularly good. I think the reviews were just how could somebody sort of write about someone who's so debased and so on. And even apparently Charlotte. Because I read this somewhere, I remember reading it. Her sister wrote the four words to like one of the editions. So it wasn't the first edition, but maybe it was like the second edition after Emily had died and apparently she even wrote something like whether or not it's a good idea to have unleashed a fiend like this upon these pages. You know, I for one don't think so. Something like. Yeah, it's a defense on us. We're saying that she shouldn't have written about someone like this. What happened initially was I think Charlotte had written Jane Eyre and it was published and it was successful. And Emily had already had sent in her manuscript before I think Jane Eyre and had never the publisher, I can't remember who it was or whatever. And maybe it was under this other name, but they hadn't looked at it. And then with the success of Jane Eyre, they were like, "Oh, we have this other manuscript here." And then apparently they published it then. Okay, yeah, because I wondered if it had anything to do with. So many of them thought you could be right. It was a guy and they were accepted and taken out and published and whatever else. But not received well. And I was wondering at what point it was discovered that it was a woman that addressed that thing. Because I mean Jane Eyre is something that the three older sisters, Jane Eyre's dark as hell as well. Lots of them was going to say, I mean, I don't know, you know, it's no picnic. And it's not quite a lot about being trapped horrible times. What was going on with that horrible episode? They were all just sitting there in their own little corners, scribbling knees like really depressing dark. And then he died. And then I died. Okay, well that brings us on quite well then to the album. And the album when I heard I started listening to it and I didn't know her. She was in another band and then this was her solo album that she did. Okay, so when I listened to songs I was like, oh my god, it's so good to be in a battle. I actually was there. I was like, why? I don't know, can you see that? So say it, say it here. So it's Kristen Hirsch and it's Hips and Makers. There's a line in it. I like to see I'm shit for this. I never know the names of any of the songs. Okay wait, I can get up. I'm so just listening to it. But the line is, this hairdo is truly evil. I'm not sure it's mine. This is virtually in reference to my flat. What did you do? Did your hair. So oh my god, it's been such a battle. I've been told by people. By the way, it looks really, really good right now. Thank you. I, oh my god, why did I do it? Okay, so this is actually in reference to this. This is not about me, by the way, this podcast, however much of a hotel story. But it's so much fun. But it's great. So I thought it'd be really funny. I, on Outlander, I've got to have long blonde hair. And when I got the part, that was sort of a thing where they really liked the fact that I had long blonde hair. And, mostly, my character in the books is described as having like luscious locks or something. Which Lauren does. Thank you. FYI. That's absolutely true. Thank you. I just have my friend. Oh my goodness. Thank you. And I've always been told I've had great hair. I haven't done anything to try and do that. And so I thought it'd be really good, because for what has it been two years, having the same hairstyle, I cut a friend a while ago, which is a good decision. And then just before filming this season, which is season five, I thought you'd switch it up a bit. Switch it up a bit. What was it a month before? I dyed it blue. And I literally have my friend, Jess, sitting in my living room. And she got foils out. Oh my god, you-- We just foiled. Yeah, I don't know why we did that. I don't think that's what you're meant to do. So it wasn't even just a blue rinse. It was like a proper-- No. Or it was like highlights. Like, she had on marigold. So I sat in the mirror in my living room. And she pulled streaks of hair and foiled the blue bottle die into my hair. And the two of us were like, this is hilarious. This will be great. You'll look so rocking. And then-- And then when did it-- When did it-- When did it-- Watch out. It didn't. So I got to sit and walked into her makeup. And they were like, literally, I walked in. And they went, fuck! And I was like, it's fine. It washes out in six to 20 washes. And I was like, even if it's 30, it's fine. And it never washed out. And so, at the beginning of this season, I negotiated quite well with costume to not wear too many bonnets, because I hate the bonnets. And then you ended up wearing bonnets for the entire season. The entire season. So every bonnet you see, it's because we split here underneath. So, how did we go under here? Because there's an amazing line from that. Oh, yeah. Well, that was also the battle of my hair in the show. I'm always criticizing it, but actually, it was my own fault this time. Which I can't believe I've ever met into you. But so, when did you first hear the album? What age do you think you were? Oh, my god. It's so embarrassing. I don't know why I've gone to this, like, high in my life. And I just-- Yeah. It's quite cool, though. I remember it was 16. Why did it come out? Do you know? I think, actually, I do know, because I left it up in '94. So I heard it in '96. I was two years behind the curve. But getting quite cool and getting quite into it. Yeah. And I think-- you know, it's so random. I think the person who turned me on to this is a girl called Caroline Burke. And I bumped into her in the airport about a month ago. And maybe that's why I've been thinking about it again recently. Oh, yeah. But was she a friend from Ireland? She was a girl I met in a summer acting school. We've all done that. And I think it was, like, one of these stage coach things, or something. It was, like, week-long summer camp. I used to do the camp. I did it every summer. Oh, my god. The best part. It was the best part. And she was this really cool girl who is the same age as me, but she was, like, so cool. Yeah. Like, she had all the cool music. She didn't quite have blue hair. Yeah. But I think we were all in Dock Martin's. I mean, this is also the '90s. And this was one of the albums. She was also, I think, like, who else? Like, Husker Dew. And, like, yeah, just all of these, like, cool, grungy things. Yeah. She introduced me to. But this one album is one that I played. Two deaths. No way. Do you see the fact that you know a line from a song, like, I don't know the names of songs, but you always know the lyrics. If it's made no good. Oh, god no. I mean, if you ask Tony, he was, like, how can you learn pages and pages of dialogue? Yeah. And yet, you will never get a song. A lyric to a song, right? And so, why do you think it made such an impact? Did you do that a lot when you heard the music? Well, I think I just got in a guitar. Oh my god. Ah! So hold on. Do you play guitar? I mean, I haven't played any music. No, I haven't seen a guitar. The guitar is in a storage unit in LA, along with the other instruments. I'm going to request. Or don't play. I'm going to request that Claire Fraser plays some guitar. Don't you do something like that in season? What season does it you sing? Oh, god. No. I'm going to sing a song. I definitely think, I think when I was in LA, when I moved to LA, that was like a big life change for me, because I think I had far too much fun and not even fun. I think I was also very fearful in my 20s and not really didn't quite know how to cope with things or how to show up for myself. I think when I moved to LA, I was like, OK, I want my life to go in this direction, so I got to get my shit together a little bit. I think that's just like good advice for I think women, men, everyone, generally, though, to not be fearful of that and to just go for fun. I think I had a year. I sort of do this every year around New Year's. I write a letter. It's like a tradition we have and usually it's like whoever we spend New Year's with and it's sort of like being grateful for the things that you really liked about the previous year and then also running down your goals for the next year but also the things you want to get rid of. And then you burn it outdoors preferably or in a safe space, not outdoors if you're in like just somewhere safe. So what sort of things do you get rid of? Well, I think every year I have procrastination on it and it's still not working, but that's natural. But I think one year I was definitely I just, you know, I'm sick of being fearful of things and just it has to be a year of just saying fuck it and just go and do it. I think that might have even been the year I moved to LA and I completely changed my life. I mean, I moved to LA and you one person, I, you know, left all my friends, my job, everything and I just was like I'm going to do it because if I don't try at least I'm going to really regret it. And I think that's the thing you make the life you want, you know, it's up to you. And I think that's a really scary moment when you realise you're like, oh wait, I'm responsible for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm the one driving this shit and the dawn of the realisation of that. That's quite that takes back actually to what I was saying at the beginning of like you being your own person in your brain. Yeah, it's just you and then having like I do, I do remember because this whole podcast sort of derived from me in my 20s not having considered like the artistic influences of women on my life. I could pull on me an easily and wear things that come from whatever and I suddenly just like start to get to know myself a little bit and was just with me and thought, God I actually don't know what who the women are. And there are, they're there but I hadn't considered what I thought about it and it's almost like in your 20s that turning point of like getting to know yourself a little bit and having to like set with yourself. In some ways I mean this is a huge generalisation and not everyone's like this but in some ways we're quite, we're not as quick to sort of stand up and be like, well this is what I've achieved and this is what I'm doing and like look at this isn't this great. And I think that that's something we can really take from or learn from men is that that willingness to sort of stand up and you know. Like for laying your achievements in some way or talk about your goals and where you want to go and what you want to do. At least I don't know whether this is also a cultural thing having been brought up in Ireland or in the UK is we're just not really taught to be as effusive with those things. And I think for me that's one of the great things that I learned in the States and being in LA and being in New York like really helped me with was actually being okay with you know sort of standing up and saying well well I'm ambitious. I want things and I've done this and I've done this and I really want to go there and it's okay to sort of say that you want more. Yeah you know that that's like I guess like a bit like wonder like if she it's all like I guess it's this thing where it's almost could be considered obnoxious like some people may have called her obnoxious to written it be in it and have directed it when actually that's unbelievable that's amazing and I guarantee you most creative people want to do something like that. And also the amazing thing with that film and I think she had a crew of four. No so it's like she had the cameraman I think it's like very elegant. Yeah I mean the sound is terrible but you can't you love that but it's such a low budget you know but you know that. That's also something that really inspired me because it's that thing of we can do anything we just have to the difference between successful people and not successful people is not some like magic equation. It's people who actually do and I think that's always the biggest thing that I try and remind myself it's like when I when I feel a little intimidated or overwhelmed by you know wanting to achieve something or doing something. It's like well these other people who are doing it it's not like they know something that you will never know it's not like they they're tapped into some magic source of genius that you're never going to be allowed go to. Honestly I've just realized that. Half I've just realized that. It's just that there's certain people who are proactive and they do things and they create opportunities and and then there are people who allow their insecurities or their fear to stop them from doing things. And you know it's a constant battle yeah yeah but I think that's exactly I think I think that's probably the biggest thing that I have learned or that I would say is that's so important says that as much as you say people don't know what they're doing they don't like there isn't like these geniuses that we talk about their actors or directors or whatever. Our smart achieves creative people but no one actually is any knows anymore. No I mean you learn so much you know when I when I got outlander I had never done I like even a minute on a TV show. I've done a couple of you know indie films and I've done like a day or two on a movie here and a day or two in a movie there but it's such a different beast to like TV and all of the like I didn't know a damn thing. And now see when I remember walking on set in my first day I'm being having not known the show that well so like I wasn't like star struck in a I knew you as famous people but I was so intimidated. I remember being so intimidated because you all knew so much and you have this I don't do people tell you this that you have this like presence you have like this sort of aura and energy of like holding the holding the set. No you do you do what I mean maybe it's also the fact that you are. I've reverted to my iris. Oh god stop. She's like this. You like to me. Curly getting yourself and that's like we're just talking about how well achieved you like to say you can't. I'm going to be you have to accept the praise. But like that is and people have said it like people that come on set you probably don't hear them but people that come on for days are supporting roles that come on and they just are like. Oh my god she's just got this like energy of someone that really knows what they're doing and can really I remember I remember using the phrase you like command the set and not in our arrogant way and I've never ever seen you. Get up and arms about anything other than the work and about things that really matter and to have gone from some place that of very little knowledge in terms of like technically even to where you are now like that's and it's not even mean that long. No I mean well first I you know I had a lot of great support in season one and what I did have I mean if you look at season one if you look at all of the actors that we had. I mean the just brilliant British actors who had been around for a long time who done a lot of stuff and even though Sam and I were pretty new Sam had done quite a lot of stuff but. I was just surrounded by incredible people so I was just learning all of them all the time just watching everybody and just being like can I steal steal steal. But I do think one of the things that I try and do at work is make it a welcoming place because I think one of the hardest things to do is come on to a show for a day or two or you know even if you are regular on the show but you're only in like. One or two days this week or one or two days next month you never get the rhythm that we get you know I am in such a privileged place because I'm in every day I don't get phased I don't get overwhelmed because that's my. That's where I spend most of my life you know what I mean it's like so many chances and opportunities to get it right. Yeah so it just feels so comfortable but for someone with stepping onto that you know I remember what it was like to walk on to a set where I don't really know anybody and people aren't as you know they're not they're not kind of like oh Katrina. Here's your chair they're like you know you're just barely better than an extra stunt under there say you're lying get it done quick don't make a mistake and then it's off you know and that's a terrifying and a horrifying place to be but yet if everybody's not good and if everybody's not comfortable the show suffers yeah you know it's like you're only as good as every other person in the scene. To say and that's I think one of the big things where you know I just I can't stand when you meet selfish actors because it just drives me crazy. Yeah and it's like why do you think you're more important oh that's my cat to say hi Eddie. To have that ability to sort of command the set and make people feel welcome and have respect I think that's quite new I don't think that that's always been the case and I think it's really important that for that young actresses or other people that want to get into it can look to that and see that as something to strive for. Yeah look things are changing and we're all learning as we go along and I think them you know that right now there's so many opportunities for women in this business in front of the camera what I've noticed is you know I'm very comfortable in a group of men in a room full of men I'm used to that atmosphere but I've also had to be used to that atmosphere right and it's kind of been like that on our show. Yeah from day one you know we've had it in season one I remember when Laura Donnelly came on to the show. I nearly knocked her over I was like a Labrador I was like oh my god you're my agent you're a woman and you're like Irish like talk to me. Oh my god you're scary like go away but because it was just there was so many Highlanders it was so many guys. Yeah but what I noticed is that there's a very different atmosphere on a set when you have more women not in front of the camera but like in the crew and as a director or you know when I worked on Money Monster with Jodie as she was the director and she had a lot of women in the crew I mean our DP was male in a lot of the camera department and stuff like that but it just had a different energy. And it's funny it's not better no it's just different totally. And I think you know we try on our show to have female directors come in but I think some women can work very well with the rest of the crew being male but I also see some women where it's a different dynamic. And I see that they would thrive so much better if there's a few more women if there was a few more women around and it's interesting I had an amazing conversation with this director Alice Wattington and she's a Spanish director and she's got a movie coming out this year and we had this most incredible conversation about she had primarily just an entire female crew and what that felt like and what that did to the film and how it changed. And I've seen her film is beautiful and it is it's just it's such a different type of film to anything I've really seen like it's so feminine in her own very particular way. And that can't span so much as well feminine can span mountains but yeah but this is very particular so I you know I think in our industry we just really need to provide an environment where more women can be behind the camera. So we've had the album we've had the book and we've had the film that have been created in some way by a woman that has influenced you a cool woman in your life. Is there just a woman I went with those things that's has a major impact in your life. I think I've read nearly everything Joan did Ian has ever read. I don't know there's something about how she writes that just resonates with me in such a way and I want to live in her time and just do all that. And her favorite book they're they're making it and I'm sort of it's the first time the last thing he wanted and it's one of my favorite books ever of hers. And I'm sort of can we get excited and also well know because it's already it's I was told I remember years ago trying to see if I could get the rights to it and I was told she will never give the rights to her books. And then I remember I got one of those you know those I get the emails from the Hollywood reporter whatever you know the headlines. And and de Reese is directing it who I'm very excited about and now why brain oh no and half away is playing the lead. So I'm sort of excited to see but it's the first time I think I've ever felt an ownership to a book or something or making something and I was like oh shit I've turned into one of those crazy fans where I'm like what are they going to do to it. It's like when Harry Potter comes out every child is like it needs to be exactly have or without lander and I understand how all those women feel now because I'm like you what are you going to do to this character and all of these characters and what are they going to look like and you know I'm like oh god that's the first time you've like been able to because I can't say that I've ever been a major fan of anything to the point that I've met some of our fans who are unbelievably dedicated and incredible with the show but I can't say I can relate to that so and if you if I feel like I feel like it's the first time that's really cool. Yeah and now I know how they feel and now I get it and I apologize for ever questioning why they they questioned so much. And on that note thank you so much. Thank you for being my first guest and taking the risk on whether or not this would work. I have no doubts and thank you for having us in your very beautiful home as well. You're welcome apparently it's very echoey. Because it's a palace. Up next week we have model, game changer and author of her book Mixed Feelings Naomi Shimada. She was born in Japan, Spanish speaking and now lives in London so her recommendations are wild. Tune in.