S1 E18 Alessandro Viola & Anders Frederik Steen

[Music] Welcome. Today actually this is quite funny because we're going to do a mixed interview. Today we're joined by two YMAKES, here at Faurabh. - I'll have you draw Viola from? - Yeah. Sissili, Alkamo is the west part of Sissili, close to Trappani. My name is Salinas. I originally from Denmark. And as a background, there's a Sumerie, a restaurant, an importer in Copenhagen. But almost six years ago I changed to make wines in the Ardeche in southern part of the Ardeche region and the Roond Valley. So as Sissili, you're quite the wrong region for wine making and a really nice region. So we're happy to have you both. - I'm starting today with Aliyan. - With, not a new Bien. - Not a new Bien, but a new one. - But the new Bien is made from green love by Gryps. It's a typical Gryps of the west part of Sissili. I don't put the name of the Gryps in the label because for the appellation I have to make a conventional wine. To write the Grylo, because you can just write the name of the baritone. If you do a Sissili DLC, otherwise it's not permitted to put the name of the Gryps inside. It's a very crazy law for me, but it's okay. My customer, my client, and I make the money with the Grylo. - They can Google it. - It's kind of a wine that you don't choose in supermarket just a bit. The positive thing of that is that maybe for the people that do shop in Sivimarki, it's that no Grylo to be a particular style or to tick a certain box. If they saw Grylo on this, they might give it surprise. It's a bit different style to what they might be used to. So it's also in your benefit to maybe not put the grape on the baritone. - Yes. - Like the grape on the label as well. Yes, of course. I make the wine, we can see natural style. I don't put anything, I don't feel there. I just put the 20mg of sulfide when I put the bottle. I stop nothing. Then I work out the wines to obtain the Gryps. The carter is the wine for me, and I have to be equally bright because it's a warm region to make wine. But if you use your own grapes, they'll talk to the grapes. The grape is balanced. If you make the wine with international grapes, maybe you can have too much structure, but without freshness, their rumours are not so elegant like in other places. The grape varieties that you'll obviously know, Grylo and red varieties or other white varieties as well. - Inside? - No, no, just in the Czech Republic. I have a little bit of syrup, catacleto, and Nerelo Mascalezza. Syra is not a total, but in Sicily there are good conditions for Syra. There are many. What do you think of this? I find this smell really interesting. It reminds me of a tree sap. It's like a pine tree sap. It's sweet, but there's something really green. There is a sapiness, but it reminds me of dark or honey as well. There's just something tree-like about it. I remember I'm a tattooer, so sometimes the stuff that comes out of my mouth. - It's going to be a little. - When you drink it, you don't feel that the air is strong with freshness and sourness because the oil is warm. And then when you drink it, that the thingy-sheet is very fresh healthy. I love this smell, and I think this would also be something I would definitely eat with. It's a bit great with certain foods. What would you pair it with? What do you like to eat with this? - What do you like? - To eat with this. If you were to drink it with food. Nothing, just a drink. Just a drink. - That's all good wine. Don't worry about it. - Yeah, just drink. That is the dinner. For me, the best food of a discount of wine is something very, very healthy. - It's a very salty, spicy, spicy, spicy, spicy, spicy. - With capers, capers and salty fish. - Very salty. - Very salty. - All of the sudden. - So deans. - Yeah. - Just on the point of Grilo, with the supermarket wine thing, that I think in Sicily, you do see a lot of young Grilo that's made in a particular way. And it's quite sterile and sort of formulae if it can almost be like a Pinot Grigio style. And it wasn't until I went to Masala and I visited Marco de Bartoli, like four years ago, that I had a new appreciation for Grilo, like trying sparkling wines, steel wines, obviously the sort of sweet and some of those fortified wines. I really appreciated that great variety for its ageability, for its complexity, when it's made really well. And I think that's not necessarily talked enough about this great variety. - But the special thing is. - It's quite interesting, right? - Especially for white wine, if you work in a conventional way, on natural way, the expression of the wine is totally different. So it's the same also for other grapevillagity. Because in a conventional way, if you work with uptoxia, gender, with technology, you have the stronger rumors of tropical fruit, for example, like serenion, almost every grape. The body is different, it's more thin. It's true for the Grilo, but it's true for all kinds of grapes. They work in natural way. Our expression of total different, especially in white wine is more. They're really white, too. But white wine is another kind of wine compared to conventional wine. - I would agree with you. I think we all agree. - Also, they use in conventional wine, they used to put more sulfite, for example, in the white wine. Because you don't have the ten instead to protect the wine. So they need more sulfite. And so I'm very different, very different equilibrium. - So when did you start making wine? Since you grew up with it? - It does, doesn't it? My wine. - Your own label? - Yes. - Before I worked for some seller. Before I make the wine in my garage, - Awesome. - Without knowledge. - I love it. - Then I got to the university study and we're making a technologist. I started to work to Big Cellar, conventional cellar. And then I thought that the wine I make in my garage before was better. - And then I left the job and started making the wine, making a gigant. - Yes. - And now I make 45,000 of them. - Okay. - I started with 1,000. - I've only built it up over the years. - Would you say that your style of wine making or the way that you approach the grapes that you work with has changed at all? Since you started in 2010, or would you say sort of stuck to the way things began? - I started making the wine like that. In the white wine I changed something, the process of the process, but the philosophy was a very natural wine. But for example, you don't start in the book how to make a natural wine. They don't care. You will write the book, you don't care how to do a very good wine without the grapes, enough inside. - But do you think that working with conventional wines sort of taught you the art of what you didn't want? - In the book you. - But it's an actual book. - In the books. - I think you. - You studied what's up and everything's in the wine. If you put these, what day you choose out to make the wine. - Okay. - And the book is not a rite, you have to do the wine this way. But they don't care about how to make the wine without the grapes, nothing inside. - White wine you have to filter, you have to clarify. This is the normal process. - So it's like cooking with a recipe versus cooking with what's available from the market. - Right, and intuition. - It's like cooking a big of bread or making a bread with sourdough. - Right. - Basically you can buy grapes and you can buy all the products you need to make a wine. - And buy your own starter. - And you can make it. - Make the wine, he said. And it will be the same wine every year. Or you can make a sourdough bread with the local wheat and your own starter. - And it will be a different bread you make in the morning and you make in the afternoon. - It will never be the same. It's the same with natural wine. You need to adapt the grapes and the environment you are working in. I agree, it's the wines. So the natural wines are made, you say, 50 or 90% in the vineyard. And the rest is in the cellar but it's really a small transformation. You need to have your primary products as the highest possible quality. Otherwise you will never be able to make anything. - Otherwise everything you make with it is going to end up being souped up. - Because when you are into the cellar, the quality of the grapes become only less and less good. If you are good, you keep the same level. But you can never go up. Wine making is not about making things better. It's about processing grapes into being wine. And for me it's really not about making wine so it's more of a. following this process, you know. And if you think you can make something better, you have a whole impression of what you're capable of doing because wine making is not wine making. If it's something is wine growing, or it's wine following this, but you can also make wine. But then you actually blend things that is not supposed to be in the right place. If you talk natural wine. In my opinion-- Well, even there is a company. If you've seen that, I don't know, I sent it to you, called Endless West. And they're working on producing-- It sounds like a cryogenic company. That sounds awful cry, Janice. Yeah, and they're producing-- they want to produce whiskey without grain and wine without grapes. What? They're doing it in the US. Oh, no. It's absolutely the same. That's-- I mean, whether it's going to taste good or not. No, the problem is-- So it's very difficult. If you want to make a lot of wine, every year or the same, without risk, in conventional wine, they study how to do it. But for me, if you drink a very good natural wine and a very good conventional wine, the conventional wine seems the imitation of the natural wine. But it's too difficult to do every year in big quantity. So in this case, they use something to do. But for me, it's a false, very similar, because you do very well. But it's not the region. For me, the good conventional wine, the inspiration, is a good natural wine, but it's impossible to do in big quantities and every year. So they find a road to do hits very good. For the consumers, don't know that's original. They don't understand. But when you don't-- you know the quality of a natural wine and then you drink a conventional wine, you don't know why if you are not experts. But your body says there's something strange in this wine. There's something rumours that maybe don't have to be there. [LAUGHTER] Yeah. It's not perfect to link it to the grapes. And this don't happen in a conventional wine. But in the opposites, for me, conventional wine, are also for me an inspiration, because they are very clean, very perfect. And for me, with the experience in the future, you can do a natural wine, also very clear, perfect. This is my objective. And in this moment is a young, the process of the natural wine. And so if you have some little mistake, it's OK. Because better something true, that's something wrong. And more than-- And more than-- The imitation of the truth. Right. The consumer in this moment, maybe, say, that I prefer to drink a bit of blood. And on your false wine. But in the future, I think that we will improve everybody in the process to make a good experience. I think we will also say, in terms of a flavor point of view, was we talked about this before, didn't we? And we said that what we love about these styles of wines is that it's not just only fruit when you first try it. Yeah, sometimes there are off notes, but sometimes there's off notes make the really pleasant notes more pleasant. And it makes it a little bit more interesting from a-- And just from a curiousity tasting point of view, an enjoyment point of view. And I do think that generally consumers that gravitate towards natural wine are already the type of people that want to try new things that are excited about things not always being the same and open-minded to things maybe not always being as is. So yeah, I think it would be nice to teach regular consumers, but instead of having the same old every day that you know, don't reach for the bottle that you know exactly what it tastes like, maybe try something that could be exciting, that you find takes you to a different place. Like a conversation with a person who didn't know before. Right. Yeah, exactly. Like take the chance rather than to always stick to the thing that you know, because you might be surprised. The problem is that who use to drink conventional wine first time try natural wine since they feel something strange. Yeah, totally. And your body is in our-- what is this? I never drink some Galadis, but I'm sure I can drink it tomorrow. I'm not sick. And people generally feel uncomfortable and things are different too, you know? But it's like embrace that feeling of not knowing people, especially hardcore conventional wine drinkers, I think sometimes they just don't know how to feel about something that's a little different or taste a bit while. That's a good way to do it. Yeah, they're totally out of their comfort zone because they don't have the language maybe to describe it or they don't-- you know, maybe they see something that they would think is a fault and something else, but really it's an expression of something interesting in that wine. And suddenly they feel out of place. But yeah, I mean, that's why natural wine. I'm sure that's-- Yeah, I'm on board with that. Yeah. Should we try the next one? I was about to say that. Yeah. We've got empty glasses and an eyeball. We're going friends. I'm going to go back and forth. Thank you. Must have colored this. So, and there's what wine are you pouring for us? This is a wine from 2017 and a wine that-- I need to explain the vintage of 2017. What's the name of the wine for our list is? [SPEAKING FRENCH] OK, so-- No. It's a very long name for our wine probably, but it means, on this hand, that was slightly squeezed too much. Left me with the feeling of complexity, or leaves left me-- It's kind of a great segue from what we were just talking about. Actually, it's a sentiment. You know these guys? Between men, there's always this guy that's squeezing your hand too much. God, we met one of those. Oh my gosh. That guy is crushing hands. It was really-- Both of you. --age them instantly. I was just two versions of it. Because there's this guy doing this. And you think when he's squeezing your hand, you think, what is he trying? Is it-- Are we starting a battle now? Yeah. What's going on? But there's also these women that, when you're tried to say it also, they never-- No, the opposite. They keep squeezing your hand until you drag it up. And it leaves always this feeling of insecurity. And for me, the 2015 vintage was very, very warm. And it really left me with this impression of being squeezed a little too much. And when I experienced 2017 being not as warm as 2015, but similar in the heat and the dryness in the summer. No, we had not much water. I was afraid that I would experience the same thing. So I kept up my-- I started to make wines with a memory of 2015. This squeezed hand that left me a little out of my comfort zone. So it's actually the last red wine I made in 2017. And it's a blend of carvignon and chardonnay. Sorry. Carvignon and chardonnay. So it's-- we always, when we do red wine, we de-stem the red grapes by hand. So it's a small portion of grapes of carvignon. And a quite big portion of the juice of carvignon and then the juice of chardonnay. And it's a way to-- carvignon is a grape that has a very thick skin. And if you want to-- You can get a lot of color, yeah. It gives easily a lot of color and a very rich wine. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. So if you want to do that, it's easy. If you want to make a more light red wine, as I enjoy making sure. But at the same time, you need-- you like to find the structure of the wine. It's difficult. So when this way, I put a few grapes and a lot of juice. And it gives me the possibility to make a long massuration without having a rich, tannic, overpowering wine. This is very-- It's a smashable. I would be-- This would-- yeah, this would be a perfect smashable red, yeah, totally. And a category of wine that we-- we categorize wine that drinks a lot of it is, and the ones that are most drinkable are called smashable. But with the shardly grapes, are you-- are they-- is that a co-ferment, then? Are you-- are you fermenting them on the skins of the caronion with the caronion? No, it's only the juice of the caronion. Only the juice of the caronion. OK. But with the skins of the caronion, that's just what I've added in co-fermented. I always blend in the harvest. OK. OK. When I make wines, I really imagine that I'm cooking, actually. I have a background of a-- I'm educated as a chef long before I was so many years and all these things. And still, when I make wines, I feel like I'm cooking. So I would taste the grapes in the vineyards. And we harvest. And sometimes you feel-- you like some acidity from the grapes. And you want to follow this direction, or you taste some other grapes. And they have another bitterness. And saltiness, maybe, by mixing these things, I construct the wines to get the other grapes. And that's all in the harvest after Dicubage. When we do the press, pressing of the grapes, then it's finished with a touch afterwards. We never blend. We never do anything, filtration or sulfur. I really want, after the Passeoir, to leave the wines to make their own story. Therefore we have short windows, sometimes a few days, for some wines, sometimes we do mesoration for one or two or three weeks. At this point, not more than that, but it means that we have only these few days of weeks to make the wine or to blend the grapes if you want. And then afterwards the wine has to make themself. Yeah. You're like, "It's your turn now." Yeah, but it's. I like them too. I think you see that in the wine, there's a purity in the wine here and there's a brightness and. I think that's really nice that you've been really brickable while doing it. Yeah, totally. Very much like this wine. Michul, I would definitely drink heaps of this. What is your food, pair and going? That's usually your question. Actually, I think that I would probably be happy to drink this without. With the food. But no, I was going to say yes, but also with the sort of. Because I'd date an Austrian chef with the typical Austrian like Yorza, where they have just bread and some chocodri. I think I happily do that just since next house. What's it called? Yorza. I can never pronounce it properly. It's also like dialectic, yeah. Yorza. I always think if you say anything in Austrian, just like "Worz!" and you're like, "Sat down." That would bring us out of those folks, though, as well. Like, 100%. It's ridiculous. I live with Arnie. Yeah. I don't think so. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I think that's. But what would you then. I don't know. I like in wines. It's hard when there's your own wine. Yeah, totally. Because you feel many things when you taste your own wines. Yeah. You know the flavours so well, because. Before bottling, I taste the wines every day. Especially during the days up to where we. Or the month, we stop to work. We bottle like. And really, I taste a lot. So, the same wines over and over and over again. But when I make the wines, I always search for specific things. I like very much acidity and saltiness in one. And therefore, it's flavours that I. I like to find. Right. I taste that as well. In the south, we can easily make quite strong, right? The fruity wines. So, if you were to do that, it's easy, but to search for the other flavours is more. I feel these flavours are there. I like to put them even more in place. So, the same way, you know, I would go. I would go a direction of. I'm olives and salty fish. The salty plum would be this kind of food that I. In the same way, very floral and fruity. But salty. And the tallness to them. Maybe also that kind of meat. Yeah. Just from the red and the life white is difficult. You have to find a right hand. This one is for this one. It's regular, actually. It's a bad idea. I feel you on that. Yeah. Because I think that sort of acidity that you get from Tata also. Yeah. You like perfect. The meat cannot cook because it's a little bit sweet. Yeah. You need this acidity to. Apparently, you're saying that you want to make me. A chicken with a parfait. From chiquiri with blood. Or I saw you. I saw you. I saw you. I saw you. You're not joking. You cannot. The way he's done it is so fresh to chef because the. The chiquiri and the blood orange just make it so easy to eat. So you literally just pick up the chiquiri and put on the blood orange. And you just. It's gone. It's gone in two minutes. I'll have another one. And something like this would be great because it's very much like. With the chiquiri and the blood orange, that sort of sort of. I think that all falls into the catarge of like the sort of meat. Meat and. The chalice food pairing for me today? No. No sweet, no sweet sour pork today. Which is a lot from back in the morning. Yeah, some of the other. Sometimes because I live with a chef, I think about food a lot and what we would pair things with. And it's one of the things that we love to do at home is. If he's cooking at home for guests, is I love to. It's a great place to be invited to dinner because he'll be like, "What do you want to eat?" And then he'll be like, "Do you want to eat this? Do you want to eat that?" This is days before. There's a build-up by a text and then he's calling you and telling you new pictures of the ingredients he's going to cook. And because sometimes it's really like everywhere because he worked as a cook to Japanese food for years and he also does traditional Austrian. So sometimes you can come to dinner and it'll be a mishmash of all kinds of things. So actually for wine pairing it gets. And he loves wine so we always have. Yeah. Lots of coffee is definitely going through a lot of wine. We're really spoiled. That's just not in town, is it? Except Barra, of course. But we are today. That's very delicious and we're very grateful. Toddling. And for people who are listeners that are in Berlin, it's Holger's talking all so far the two wines that we've tried. Yeah, I think everything we're trying is all up in equal to today. Yeah, everything we've got. It is. Okay, great. Where do we go from here? We're going to go back. Shall we go back? We're going to jump back and we'll talk to you guys. You guys never. We can sit here. We tasted a little bit before we came. We have to be honest. That's why the bottles are half empty. We guess. We're no detectives, but. We put two and two together. We put four. Yeah. We're empty. It's a good sign. This one is. What's the name of this wine? Kuyomashik Padishimik. That's a bit easier. Yeah, it's translatable. You're magic with no chemicals? Yeah, it means. Because it's a blend of what you see in the northern part of our region, where they make kutkuti, amitash and all these things. This is Seren Bionnier. Exactly. Okay. And yeah, I work very closely to a wine maker called Shira Ljustrik. When we work, he likes to say all the time, "Smatchik is magic, smatchik is magic." Because he's a man that has a very easy to find joy. And he finds pleasure in many things. And even the small things he finds very magical. Cool, sounds like a great guy. He's a great wine maker, as well, by the way. But it's another thing. So I find it funny to say this is just magic. It's just magic. It's just magic. There's no chemicals. Like the same things you find 50 kms from where we are. So it's the same idea as the wine we tasted before. It's a blend of a white and a red. And the de-stemmed red with the juice of the reds. But also the juice of union. Yeah. It's the same idea. I taste the grapes. The Sira of 2017 was really spicy. Sira can be like grinded pepper and really, almost impossible to even in the. It can be tough, yeah. Really tough, even in the raw form it has a grape. It really can be really intense. And on the other hand, we had the unié that was maybe having a little lack of the structure. Because the white grapes, when it gets too long in our place, they lose acidity very fast. Yeah, then you get that blousy, quite flabby. Yeah, and over fruity, over floral things. For me, the unié can be almost like a lychee jasmine flower thing. And it can be nice, but it can also be without any direction. We talked about this. We talked about the unié. And when you were saying that you've struggled sometimes because you never know what you're going to get. And you can't really discover anything in the unié. So I feel like the unié is sometimes really salty for me. So it's a weird, that sometimes it can be really fruity and sometimes it can be really saline. So I'm always a little. Yeah, lost. What is a grape like that? I find it interesting, but. It's a grape for me, similar to Cabernet Souvignon or "Qiviste de Mina" and it says. "Qiviste de Mina" is just a balsa, that's her favourite grape. No, but I like it. I started to like it because I was assuming you. I didn't like it as all because. That's what she hates, I like it. It's so all-powering. But it's so rich and it takes so much space when you. But I love natural Givert streamers, because I think they can be really interesting. I don't know, but I agree. But there's too few making this. Yeah, I think it's. That's why you should have that tomorrow. I know. And that's a couple of good guys in Alsace, that makes people. She loves Julien Meyer. And listen, it was the other one you just found recently. And also. She loves it. Yes. It's different than that. You make some mass-related. quiviste de Mina. Because I love these mass-traded ones. They're almost like cocktails, you know? They have this sort of regrony. Or. And it gets a bit of an assembly. And I love anything with a bit. We've also discussed this. I like anything with a bit of. enough, because it just makes it more. She want to have more and more of it. Maybe they tell you they like bitterness. Coffee, macaroni, and. compane. That's my jam. I mean, I. That's my jam. I also love Italy. I got it Italy more than any other way. In Italy, we don't make strong coffee. We make coffee. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, they'll pack the coffee with the water. And they'll make coffee similar to tea. Our style is the coffee. The flavor of the. Keep rolling on this. We could talk about it, but for me, for another half an hour. watch out. But your labels. I think it's worth just touching on them, because. even when we got the delivery. and I had some magnums from Alex of Tutor in London at my last event. the last two events that I did. And one of the guys were like, "The labels come off this wine." Because it does look a bit like a back label. It is actually a back label. Yes. So the story is short. Is that the first vintage I made. I wanted to find an artist that I like to work with. But I didn't succeed in finding the right person at the beginning. So we decided just to put on the back label, write the name, and put all the info, the legal stuff that needs to be there. And then I thought, "One day I find the artists that I like, and. I put on the label." But then. Then the wine started to taste good and my bank manager called me and said we need some money to go into your account otherwise this project that will never succeed. So we started selling wines with the label and I liked it. Also, we were searching for something that was neutral in some way. I like the name of the wine, it's the same name two times. I changed the name all the time, I changed the blend of the grapes and the verification every year. And sometimes the names are quite political as well. Sometimes they're quite political, sometimes they're. Some stuff they're funny, my reference music and different things. I like it like that. I like to. It's also for me the wines are a picture of we that make them in a certain period of life. And the names are the same, it's actually what I think or we feel, I think inside and we put, we write it and we put it as a message. So I like to be able to have this volatility, this easiness in changing the thing. Flexibility, exactly, all the time. And also I like to have a label that fits into a wine bar or a nightclub. And also a label that fits in in a three-star restaurant. So I don't want any naked women or stupid things written on my labels because I think if I do that, I take my wines away from a place where they could be. Or I pre-detailed an impression of the wines that not necessarily is what the wine wants. You kind of just want to let the wine speak for itself. Yeah, that's what my understanding of it. For such a minimal label and then you see the wines actually that, I mean, it's in a really positive way actually, that wines that have sort of minimal manipulation going on with them that really present the character of a great variety of vineyards without this sort of very sort of hand. Look, it's, you know, without this very industrial. You know, like, it's the opposite of industrial wine. There's zero marketing in that label and that's what I like about it. Which is in itself its on type of marketing. Yes. Also for sure this one. But also around it. Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm fascinated by labeling anyway because I think it's a. Yes, but you as an artist. Yeah, right. So that's something that I'm always fascinated how the two things can act or sometimes when you have wine makers that have very different labeling say like Christian Chidewere, you have one, you know, bottle that looks very classic. We have bottle, and then like, so yeah. And then like, so yeah. You give this communication, I don't put that I've done. And you're right. So you give it a communication because I paint in the label something that I like to paint. Did you paint yours yourself? In my. Oh, someone else. It's different. Oh. Yeah. I tell her I would like to. something like that. She paint and then I. Check that out. So you give her artistic director. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that story very much because it's the same connection. Sometimes I think what you miss in natural wines also that the labels becomes more and more you know, wild and crazy. Right. Sometimes it's more the label selling than the wine. Absolutely. And when you say it's your girlfriend or we do it, it's not something I'd see. For me it's important that the label communicates something about the wine. The beautiful label that I don't link with the wine. So no. Yeah. But I think that's why I do like this. I like it. But you have wines with totally different styles. Many sellers give a graphic. Do a label for me. Ah, beautiful. But the label is something that you want to communicate. Just you can do. It's the idea for that. But someone can help you to paint it or write it. But the idea is important that there is a link to the wine. Sure. I think we're very interested in experiment actually to label the same wine. You know what we interested in? If you took the labels off the bottles, right? And you gave people the bottles blind. They tasted it and then they had to match the labels up with wine. I wonder how many people could get that. We should play this game. Oh, you should. Let's do it. It won't be a matter of a street night. It'll be a case. It was bottle number five. It was a little too much. In the bathroom. For sure, good point. Because if you drink a wine where you like the artwork on the label, probably it tastes nice. Of course it changes your perception. But if it's like you're drinking wine in a room on a restaurant where you don't like it or with a couple of people that you don't like, the wine's tough to take a taste part. If you drink it like today in a group of people we enjoy our company. It's the wine taste better. And it will be the same with the label. There's some labels I really don't like what they do. And immediately I thank properly this one in this way. Because you think you don't have the risk. Yeah. Yeah, it's what my question is. I wasn't trying many good ones before. I was like, "Well, I was scared about this. Someone don't like the label and don't like the wines. I don't want to risk." That's it. OK. I like about you though. If someone who works in your own artistry and you're designing your drawing and your own art, you're very talented at what you do. But you're quite a risk taker with wines. Because sometimes you buy stuff which has really shocking labels and you're like, "I'm giving it a go." And I really respect them. But she's like, "I don't care about the label." I just like to try new things. So I just go for it. So we've discovered some stuff that maybe I wouldn't usually pick up if I'm not as talented as shelf and then I'm like, "God, this is great." Because I don't always look, I mean the labels are interesting to me but I don't think it's, I try not to be swayed by them. It's more like, what is this, where is it from, who made it, or why is it interesting to me and then I'll buy it regardless of how hideous the label is? Anybody wants to write in on the worst and best wine labels that they've seen? Yeah, feel free. Feel free. That'd be great. I'm sure we'll bring it up in a while. We'll have 15 votes by one football. Yeah. That was some. Yeah. That's some labels there. That's some labels in ballroom that is there. That's new. Pure magic powder, kemiq. Shimiq. Shimiq. I'll give up on French. It's a very longer than this Dixie show. Yeah, the second wine of yours, I'm just going to call it pure magic. Yeah. Pure magic. You're giving it a lick? No, it's lovely. It's really pure bright and again. Another easy trick for all of us. It's the trick on, but my fingers are second. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also a smash of all. I like this freshness because it's rare in our region and I find it interesting. The same you get in. In Sicily you get the same always the same freshness in my opinion. Yeah. You know better than I, but you know some there was probably there are some producers that don't reach this freshness. But what I say is from I only drink natural wine, wine without so forth and so on. So for me I have very limited range of wines that I can drink. I want to drink. I find pleasant drinking. But from Sicily it's the same, even many warm regions when it's grown well and it's in the Taiwan and the hands of a wine maker that know what's why to put the pressure in the magnification. You can find a very charming freshness. And that's what I'm searching for in our wines. It's really the same. Definitely comes across. Now the problem is that's the climatic change for Sicily is not a big problem because we used to cultivate the gaps to resist to the warm and dryness in the summer because a normal summer in Sicily stop a rain in May and restart in October. So no one times rain in six months, five or six months. And so we planted the grapes also more distance. OK. Less plant per perreter. In the regional liking friends in the north of Italy, where in the summer rain a lot and maybe you put many plants in this case you cannot think of a good matter of maturation of the grapes. But if the rain, then I planted it to survive the wet. Ah, so you're not crowding them? They have like little excess. Yes, if the summer like this in Germany, no, they cut the grapes in an honest, crazy, in Sicily. In Sicily I cut the grapes in a topper. So incredible. They all posited. They all posited. It was very, very hot in the center of the Europe and this year. And we don't know what can happen because it's very cold. The weather is the last year. But the warm for the warm and dryness, we are not scared because we used to cultivate the plants in this condition. This is a really interesting smile, really like this one of us. It's like salad and sauce. It's actually, yeah. It's like tuna salad. Salad of the quinoa. Yeah, it's like totally salad in the sauce. You never can drink into times the same wine. Also, you can label this same. Yeah. But also the fact you need to accept natural wine is a living thing. It's totally. We talked about salad and cooking in this way but it's the same with natural wine. You're your, your, your bottle of wine and I'm gonna go. the top part of the cube and the bottom part of the cube or the barrel, whatever it doesn't taste the same. When we bottle our barrels, we have maybe, I say, two or three or four of the same wine in barrels. But we don't mix the four barrels, we bottle one, we bottle number two, we want number three, so what you get is different. And the same with the bottles, they change during period. And I think it's chapter two. The wine is narrowed out and it's here together. It's called noted heroes. Noted heroes. This is 2016. Okay, so 2016. So this is the 2016 noted heroes. The 70% of the barrel and 30% of the syrup. It fermented with the skin for eight days, three hours and 25 minutes. It's very precise. How many seconds? Including lunch break. Second I don't remember. But tomorrow I can tell you. No, I don't. I can check my book. You know this. It happens a lot. Yeah. I stay in stainless, 80% to 20% in just not the barrel. Is that your dog on the label there? Is that your dog? What's your dog's name? It's a picture when I make my first one in my garage. So this was a photograph then. I was trying to get in on the action. It's a supervisor I like to call it. I mean, the wine in an open barricade. And I removed the skin manually. And the dog can. And somebody take me a picture. Funny because it reminds me of a dish that I've had. But I don't think it would go with it. But it reminds me of something. What is it? It reminds me of in Venice. There's a pasta dish with onions, caramelized onions and salted fish. Doesn't it sound like it's for the faint holes? No, it's really good. It's just like they're really thick. I forget what the pasta is called. It's thick with holes in it. But it's quite long. Like the tubes that's like big sort of with the hollowed out. Yeah, but it's quite thick. But it's just caramelized onions and either sardines or anchovies. It's really good. And this kind of reminds me of it. Yeah, they're almost in this moment. It's quite, quite, quite strange. It's long time ago that I've been doing the 2016. And so for me, it's a surprise to. I like. You were once, for me, always feel very savoury. Yeah, but less, less, bit more savoury and more herbal. Yes, of course, it's more herbal. It's really, there's a lot of life. Now it's turning more herbal. A lot of berries like aromas in my case, there are other aromas. But people really find this. I was. before when you talked about food, or for me, in my head I had bought a couple of years ago, many years ago, actually, I did a shroud in Barolo area. There's a lot of Italian tuna. Yeah, Italian tuna, so yeah. And you could always this parsley. Parsley. So when you eat it, the first thing you have is parsley, green parsley. Very aroma. Then you take it and then you add all these things in the meat. And I find the same with this one. It really has so many. That is a great quality for wine. When you have all these layers of flavors, it's like you're digging into something and it keeps. You keep wanting to go back to find out something else here. It keeps giving you something. That's really a big quality for wine. The fantastic things of the wine is that you can have all kinds of aromas inside. Yes, you don't know why, but rally grips. Everything but. Every kind of flavor, too. Love it. Yeah, yeah. It's a very, very complex. I would like to thank you, Buzz, for joining us. Thank you. We do thank you so much for your time for sharing your wines as well. Really appreciated. Yeah, I do. So for anybody that's in Berlin that is listening, you can find these wines that have been equal to it in Charlottesonburg on Grommemstrasse. But obviously the wines are found. You're selling in almost every market, aren't you? We have an audience in the US, Canada, the UK. The UK, no. Japan now. Cut the singles here and there. You know, one in Malaysia, one in the other. There is Thailand. I don't. It's probably tattooed yesterday. I don't see it. I don't sell just in Angola and Kazakhstan. And there everywhere. Okay. Well, I love it. So sorry if you're in those two places. Get out of there. Yeah. So thank you so much. And. Yeah, cheers. Thank you. You're joining us. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.