Ryan Gardner and Tomislav Spoljar: Two world class trumpet performers/pedagogues/leaders discussing the organization, community, and impact of the upcoming International Trumpet Guild Conference in Crotia

[Music] Welcome to Anthony Plogue on Music. This is Eddie Lutemar, the shows producer, here to introduce Ryan Gardner and Thomas Lovett Spuliar, two exceptional trumpet players and educators and leaders with the passion for fostering community in the trumpet world. In part one, Tony Ryan and Thomas Lov discussed the upcoming International Trumpet Guild Conference in Croatia, exploring their motivations and the excitement surrounding the event. Ryan shares his vision of expanding the ITG's international presence, stating, "The community of trumpet players is what keeps me engaged and motivated. They delve into the personal journeys that led them to become leaders in the trumpet community, highlighting the challenges and rewards along the way. But before we launch into the conversation, Tony and I will love to share a brief message with you from our good friends at Doraco." Make perfect scores faster with Doraco 6. The latest generation of Steinberg's family of music notation and composition software for macOS, windows and iPad is packed with new features to help you create peerless performance materials more quickly and easily. From its unique proofreading panel that identifies potential issues as you work, to one click cutaway scores and hundreds of other new features and workflow improvements, Doraco 6 is smarter than ever. To find out more, visit www.doraco.com to buy or download a free No Obligation 60 Day trial version. No credit card or subscription required. So Ryan Gardner, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me, Tony. It's a privilege. And Thomas Lov Spouliar, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, thanks for having me, Tony. It's nice to be here. Ryan, where are you right now? I am in Lafayette, Colorado. I teach at the University of Colorado Boulder. So just pretty close to school right now. Okay, and Thomas Lov. You are here. I'm at my hometown, Zagreb, Croatia. And I work near Zagreb in a little town called Velika Gorica. So it's pretty close. And right now we are on mostly vacation because school is off. And I'm having time to organize a beautiful conference of ITG. Great. Okay. And I'm in Fiber, Germany. And our producer, Eddie Lutema, is in Pocahtello, Idaho. So technology is fantastic these days. Absolutely. So we'll have an awful lot to talk about, especially the upcoming ITG regional conference, which will be held in Croatia. And I, before we get to specifics, I'd like to start with, to me, what seems like an obvious and maybe difficult question to answer. Which is, why would either of you want to take on a project like putting together an ITG conference, either in the United States or in Croatia, considering that it's going to give you headaches and frustrations? Why would you want to do that? Who would like to go first? Maybe I'll jump in because I volunteer Tom to do it. But, you know, one of the things that I really feel is important for the International Traffic Guild is to make sure that the. ITG is more international. And we haven't really been out of the country very much. I think we were in Manchester in 2002. We were in BAMF in 2008. And then we were in Sydney in 2010. So the last time that we've been in Europe was, you know, 23 years ago, which is a long time. And we have such great support and participation on the board from Europeans, including Tom and Hugh Morgan and Dave Collins. And so, you know, when we started thinking about this, my vision was to see if we could figure out a way to bring ITG back to Europe and to remind everybody how awesome what we do is. And that sort of led me to asking Tom if he would be a willing participant and organizer and basically do a lot of work to ensure that this conference goes off without a hitch. And he's been an absolute amazing person, team member, leader. And we're so fortunate to have him. So now I'll turn it over to him and he can answer his why. And Tom, you said you were putting out several fires already today. So, so why would you want to be putting out fires for a number of months, I guess, in preparation for this? Well, the short answer to this is I didn't know what I'm having. But that makes sense. But I must say I'm really glad that I said yes, although I really have a huge amount of work and I'm really glad and I will say why? Because the last ITG conference in Europe as Ryan said was 23 years ago. And before that we had one in Rotterdam, if I'm not mistaken, and one in Sweden. And we didn't have anything in a sound part of Europe. And that was because as you know, few countries fell apart and there were some wars and everything. And now after 23 years, it's really good time to have an ITG in this part of the world. People are really hungry and a lot of them they never had an opportunity to meet so many trumpet players at one place, to have so many exhibitors at one place, to listen to such good artists at trumpet at one place and also at the end to hang out. And all this gives me really great energy to continue to work forward to this conference. And I'm really glad that I said yes to Ryan. Oh, that's great. That's great. And Ryan, why did you choose Tom in Croatia just because of location or because of Tom or all of the above? All of the above. I mean, I have known Tom for just a couple of years now, but I've known of Tom for many, many years and have heard about the festival that he puts on in Vellica, Gordica. And I've spent time in Croatia myself before. And so when I met Tom and I saw what it go get her. He is and I've known about his incredible studio and students. And also this incredible festival that he puts on and just him being like the person he is, which is just a kind guy go get her somebody who's going to help us. I thought it was just a match made in heaven and I was proven correct. So that's great. Well, let's sort of go back to the beginnings, not with this ITG festival, but how you both first got involved in not being just trumpet players, but let's say trumpet player entrepreneurs. So Ryan, what were the steps that took you to be coming president of the international trumpet girl? Yeah, so I actually grew up not being very involved in the ITG. I don't think I went to an ITG maybe one. I think I went to to one conference while I was in school. And so when I became a professor in 2008, I went for the very first time and it was such a wonderful opportunity to hear incredible music and to learn from these incredible pedagogues. And then also to just network and meet people. And so from that point on, you know, I was hooked and I got to meet so many friends and, you know, the best part about ITG for me is the community and the community of trumpet players, the community of musicians and just the fellowship. So after that, I sort of got more involved. I started doing like little things for them, judging. I was writing articles. I was getting involved in fundraisers for the guild. And then that sort of led me to a board nomination. And so I've been on the ITG board since 2016, which is almost 10 years of my life. And I never really thought about being president, but I was approached about potentially running. And I always want to be somebody who's proactive at somebody who is service oriented and who can help. I don't want to be somebody who just sits back and doesn't contribute. And so for me, this was an amazing opportunity to represent and to move ITG forward. And so I ran, I guess, almost four years ago, four and a half years ago. And somehow the ITG entrusted in me this opportunity. I was vice president for two years under Jason Bergman who did a great job. And then now I'm president. And in about 42 days, I will be past president. So you're counting the days. Yeah, well, we're getting closer and I'm excited because we're handing it off to one of my incredible colleagues, Jason Dolval, who's going to do a wonderful job. And the positives of your job, as you sort of mentioned, are that would be being involved in the trumpet community. The negatives are just the amount of work you have to do or what else. Yeah, I mean, I never expected. I guess I didn't really know who is signing up for. I just thought it was going to be, you know, a lot of leadership, but you know we've made a lot of changes to ITG. I mean we've changed a lot of the competitions to allow for more student participation. We've made the conference more student centric. We have a new conference director. We've changed our recordings to these recording awards and we're doing some other unique things. So you know I wanted to just to make a difference and so a lot of it has been interesting the right people to do a lot of things and it's interesting being president means you have to know about everything that's happening in the guild but you're overseeing everything which is so it's just kind of you know you have to be in all the meetings you have to be in touch and sort of check in and just make sure everybody is feeling good and feeling positive and feeling like their work is strong and effective. So that's sort of the way I would approach it is lots of thinking and trying to figure out the best strategic plan for the ITG but yet helping everybody kind of fulfill that mission. Yeah and it's interesting. One of the people you studied with and we'll get to this in a bit was Mark Gould and I did a recent interview with him that's not out yet and he was talking about I ask him you know what makes you so great as a teacher because he said so many great students and you talked about the ITG CD recording competition that they had. Yes. And he said well as an example he said that you know I have a student named Caleb Hudson and he had his first lesson at the end of the first lesson Mark said okay next week I want you to come back with a list of repertoire for the first recording you're going to make. That's pretty amazing to think of teaching that way so yeah so fantastic. We'll get to balancing things in a bit but Thomas loves you got an earlier start than Ryan did in terms of sort of being an entrepreneur because I know I think it was 2007 that you became the artistic director of Howdy finances the Velika. Velika Gorica. Okay Velika Gorica. Brass music festival and had you done anything before that? Yes actually somehow the life always gave me the opportunities to organize something. I always wanted to play for people I always dreamt to be a chamber or musician or solace but somehow I always was the one who needed to organize concerts and go to sell my band or stuff like that and then I also learned that nothing for Brass is happening in Zagreb at least it didn't happen at that time a lot. In example during my studies I had the opportunity in Zagreb only to listen one concert of Hocken Hunderberger and that was actually it. Stanko Arnold was the one who was very often here and then when I started to teach here I decided to try to organize something I went to different doors and they were always closed and then by chance with the father of my pupil at that time, Vrajan Gorilovchen. I started the Brass festival in Velika Gorica and now we will celebrate 25 years and in those 25 years we had really great great musicians and composers and we have some works that we commissioned for the Brass festival we had some premieres here so it was really nice feeling and as Rian said I feel like I'm contributing back something and also when I see younger generation that grew up through this festival and with this festival it's really nice feeling to see them it's you know it's 25 years it's a long time and when you see people who are young students and now they're professionals and they come to play to the festival it's really great feeling. Yeah that's got to be a very great feeling. I would think that you know knocking on doors and all the doors are closed and you just keep knocking and knocking and knocking that just takes a certain amount of persistence. I remember the story of Walt Disney I guess when he wanted to start Disneyland he was already very big he had put out snow white and everything and I think he knocked on or talked to 210 people and he got knows and finally 211 gave him the money that he needed loaned him the money a bank so that he could start Disneyland and so I think you just have to be persistent and it sure sounds like you have done that and exhibited that in your life. You also are you the head of brass teachers in Croatia and the entire Croatian country is that correct? Yes that also happened by chance I didn't want to do that you know life only is give me gives me things that I do not want to do that and then at the end I say well okay and they're they're not negative things I really learn a lot and I learned a lot this particular thing happened while I was pretty young and I was really afraid to take that position because I will say I was afraid of older people professors who were right ahead of their retirement and I said to the lady who was in charge to put me on that place that I don't think that I'm the best person for it because I'm young and she said well but you organize things and whatever you say you do you do it so I think you are the right person at the right position and then I took it and I hope that I open some doors for my colleagues as well and at least I opened their point of use and made some contacts for them and I tried to use that position to make a methodology of trumpet teaching not only in Croatia but also this area to be on a bigger level and another level of consciousness if you want. When we first spoke about doing this podcast you said you didn't want to talk about yourself you wanted to talk about the ITG and what it was accomplishing but I do have to say this that in 2021 you were the first music educator to be awarded the highest teaching title of advisor in Croatia that's pretty special I'd say yes I wonder how did you find that one you prepared well well yes yes I don't think so you don't have to worry about that yeah that one is special I'm not the only one anymore of course but I was the first one and in Croatia we have some system where when you teach you collect some points for the things you do as a teacher and I had really a lot of points because I didn't work for the points I just worked I worked because I wanted to work and I worked for my pupils and then some friends told me well you should try to to apply for this and I applied and and I got it so that's that story so yeah tell me about this or you said points for things you do what would be things that you do like organizing concerts or yeah organizing concerts leading your pupil or taking him or her to the competition going to a masterclasses doing workshops yourself organizing concerts not only for your class but also for the school stuff like that so close to pedagogical work right right okay well Ryan I forgot to ask you about the ITG what have been surprises for you as president and also what do you think that you've learned that you didn't know before assuming the presidency oh surprises I just think that when I came into the job I thought it was just going to be easy to know fires to put out you know just like kind of moving things in the right direction but it's been awesome but it's just been a lot of getting to understand different people's perspectives and trying to help find solutions and so I think those were some of the challenges through my time but I've learned I feel like I've grown into I would hope in a decent leader and and I feel like I understand administration a lot more and how important it is to have people in the right jobs but I would say that yeah the biggest the biggest challenges that I faced were you know trying to to make everybody happy well not always being very successful but always trying to do the right thing for the guild are you familiar with the book Jim that Jim Collins wrote called Good to Great oh I know that book yeah yeah okay it's a wonderful book and one of the chapters is called like a basically about on the bus getting the right people on the bus but you also have to get them in the right seat and I think that's probably what your job would be completely I mean I feel like I've been very very fortunate you know somebody like Tom agreed to organize this incredible conference you know I've I've got such a great journal editor in Peter Wood. I've got Rebecca doing the conference. I've got Jason Kraft in Renewant recordings. I mean, I just have all the right people doing all the right things. And that's more of a reflection of their great work than it is my leadership. But I feel very fortunate that I had all the right people say yes to me. - So you chose those people? - Yeah. - Okay. So to me, that sounds like leadership. - Well, thanks. I don't want to embarrass you, but yeah. Okay, so let's move ahead to this regional conference. And so it came about because you thought you would ask Tom if he would do it and he said yes. So first a question just so that we can get going. How do you pronounce the city? It's Varsadin. - Varsadin. - Varsadin. - Varsadin. Okay. Okay. So I'll let you handle that. Yeah. For the best of this. So a couple of things about this, the festival is first, how do you go about inviting artists? And is that discussed with a two of you or do you usually leave that to Tom or how does that work? - Yeah. So you know, when it comes, this is the, this is only the second regional conference we've ever hosted. The first one was hosted by Michael Anderson. And I believe that was in 2018. So it's been a minute since we've done that. We've done this. And so sort of the vision with the regional conferences, we choose a host and we sort of give them like very few parameters and we let them run with it and boy did Tom run with it. (laughs) We, yeah, he has put together an incredible array of artists and you know, he would just sort of, what do you think about this person? What do you think about this person? And I was like, great. Like, so he was really the vision in a lot of the artists that were chosen and I was just a mere bystander of approval. So I'll turn it over to Tom who can tell you a little bit more about his process. But. - Yeah, a quick question, just to get back here and don't name names. But did he suggest anybody to you with that? Well, maybe not. Are we always on board? I don't think so Tom knows what he's doing. So we trust, we trust in Tom. - Okay. (laughs) Okay. So Tom, we trust you. Take it away. - Yeah. So he's good to know. So I will go like this. First of all, when Ryan asked me about the conference, I had few concerns and one of the concern was where I should do it because I know that in the Silicon Valley, it's a dozen have enough hotels, enough accommodation rooms for people. And I also knew that Zagreb is out of the question because I tried to get it, but it's a big city and all of the money goes to different things and the trumpet in Zagreb wouldn't be so interesting as it is in Varyshtin. And why is that? It's because the northern part of Croatia, it's tradition, it has a tradition to have a lot of brass bands and wind bands. So Varyshtin was a good choice and we got really easily through contacts to the music school and the theater building and the cathedral for the concerts and the whole city I think will live ITG conference and they will be happy that so many trumpet players are there. Actually, the second thing that concerned me was who should I invite, of course, not because I didn't know anyone or that I didn't have any idea, but I wanted to speak with different people and Ryan was one of them and Hugh Morgan helped me and they've called and helped me and some other friends from Europe. How we could attract more trumpet players to come and listen and to become ITG members. Because that's one of the biggest goals for me. I would really like people to have the experience that I had in '90s when it was really, ITG was pretty much the same but it was different time. And for me, for a boy from Croatia, when I grew up in '90s to have so many information about artists, about the process of practicing, about the process of learning, about how to go to competitions, about everything. I really wanted to share that at the conference and to try to attract people. So when I decided whom to call, I tried to have really good artists. Let's say big names. I also tried to invite great teachers, whom I know that will attract probably students to come to listen to them or to maybe work with them. And I tried to invite people from this area who has something to say, to give lectures about different themes. So that was my idea. So yeah, that's why I picked Varastin and that's how I invited people that I have invited. And as for exhibitors, I also tried to invite people from Europe mostly because I was thinking also to try to present them to people who will maybe come from USA because people from USA do not have so many opportunities to try nice instruments of some European brands. That will be here. So that's also my point of view. What's it difficult to arrange venues and lodging? You said it was maybe not so difficult? Well, it's to arrange venues and lodging, it's not so difficult because I have a crew behind myself and they really are helpful. What is difficult is to meet standards that ITG set and they are really high and they should be high. And it's not so easy to do that in this region because our halls are maybe smaller. The halls that are big, they cost more. So Varastin, I think it's a great city to have because it's a little baroque city and it's also UNESCO city of music. So it's really, it has certain story behind that and we will of course provide whatever we can to be at the best possible level. And I, you know, Ryan and Rebecca Wilde, who also helps a lot and gives a lot of great advices. They went to Varastin with me and maybe Ryan can say also something about the venues and lodging and how he sees things. I personally think it would really be nice and great here. - Yeah, well, I also just wanted to compliment Tom on the representation that he has in terms of the artists and the presenters. I mean, people are coming from all over Europe, from the US, from Canada and it just really is going to be such a special event that is inclusive of like a lot of different kinds of artists and people. And so I think that's really really cool. When Rebecca and I had the opportunity to visit Varastin, I fell in love with the city the minute we drove in. It's so beautiful. And what's nice is that the city's just completely walkable. You can go anywhere within, you know, five, 10 minutes. And the halls are absolutely gorgeous. Tom took us to the school, which has beautiful facilities. There's two concert halls in there. There's a church that is maybe one of the most beautiful churches. I've seen that we're going to have concerts in. And then there's also another concert hall where some of the evening performances will take place and that is absolutely stunning. It's one of those typical, gorgeous European halls that have all the glitz and glamour. It's really beautiful and stunning. And the people in Varastin have been so welcoming. The Varastin School of Music is an incredible facility and they've been really lovely to work with. So we're super excited to be there. - Well, it sounds really idyllic. Well, what about funding, which I think would be one of the most crucial aspects. And it would be funding in terms of, I guess, paying the artists who come. I guess you would also have to cover travel expenses and maybe food. And what are all the concerns for funding and how do you go about getting it? - Well, I'll jump in here for a minute and then I'll let Tom answer. I think funding was probably both Tom and my biggest concern when we started doing that. Would you agree, Tom? And when we do regional conferences, ITG essentially offers very little money to put this on. And so, Tom has really been incredibly creative. in terms of finding sponsors and writing grants and working with sponsorship companies, like some of the exhibitors or sponsoring artists. One of the things about ITG is that we don't pay artists to perform or to present. And so people really want, have to want to be a part of these events and Tom's been incredibly creative and raised a lot of money in order to help us achieve this dream. So Tom, if you want to get into more specifics, you absolutely can. Well, I wouldn't like to discover specifics, so I would like to keep it a secret. Please do mind. It's just our secret. That's right. I'm not a secret of mine, that I will not share. But I just want to share one thing. I listened to your podcast with Dave Collins and I spoke with him a lot because he knows European system and he has been helpful to me. But it's different. He's here at Eastern or Southern part of Europe if you want because usually you get a lot of sponsorship. That was new for me because here we don't get that. We get funding from the city, from the county, sometimes from the Ministry of Culture. We get people who come to play to get funding from their cities or so on. So to get money as sponsorship from someone that was totally new for me and I really learned a lot through the help of people like Ryan, like Dave Collins and through a lot of contacts. And I had really nice opportunity to know through Velika Gouritts-Abra's festival. I have met great people, both artists and exhibitioners who also helped me with their contacts. They were not selfish and they didn't say, well, I will just come and present my brand, but they were really helpful with other brands and they promoted what we do here and everybody wanted to help ITG in Europe. They're really happy and they were a little bit hungry to come and to present their work, their artists and so on. That goes also for the artists. When I said that ITG will be here and that we have regional European conference, it's nice to see that I need to put exclamation point of regional because people are really happy that ITG has a conference in Europe. So a lot of artists that will come, they really want to be here and they will have a lot of fun. So that's really nice. That's good energy. It's behind this, it's really what motivates me. And then it's easier to try to get more funding sent and it's easier to survive things when you learn that maybe you lost some money at some point, but you need to gain at some other end that works then much easier. You know, you mentioned Dave Collins who's fantastic and when I talked with him and his wife, Sarah, Sue, one of the things that they said that really, really struck me as being important was they said a lot of people when they have a music festival, they'll have one or two very, very big sponsors and they were never able to get a big sponsor, but they think now that that actually was a help for them because they had to get a whole series of very small sponsors. And if one of these music festivals had a big sponsor and the big sponsor decided not to sponsor again, they were in trouble and it might not happen again, but with having many, many different sponsors, maybe even one person just sponsoring an airfare for one artist as an example, they were able to really build and build. And so it sounds like that's what you're doing. And also just a question about writing grants, because I've heard that in the United States, there are people who actually are professionals at writing grants and they'll get hired to write grants for people. Will you and newcomer to writing grants and how difficult was that for you? Well, it wasn't difficult because I tried to get some grants before and I do that also for the festival, but on some other level because the grants we are trying to get are usually connected to the state or city. This was different because we tried to reach firms local and in Croatia who are not necessarily connected to music business, but we tried to reach them to try to support something that is important and happening and happens in their city. So I can tell you it's not custom here as I told you and from we send really a lot of letters and a lot of emails and when I say you a lot it's around I would say five to seven hundred for sure and we got only two answers. One was negative and one was positive and we got one phone call and that one phone call happened because the woman who works in the firm is a mother of a trumpet player. So yes that's you know it's hard to get sponsor here but when you do you try to feel them feel nice not because you expect them to sponsor let's say my festival but to sponsor any other cultural event that's important and we try it's not only what I survive here now it's something that lots of musicians and also dancers and actors they're trying to raise the level of consciousness of people who are businessmen because they go to their work here and they it's easier for them not to support cultural events but to pay taxes because it's less paperwork but maybe if we raise some money and we make some of them they will speak about how lot paperwork they have and maybe then the political offices will raise the amount of paperwork and something will change. So that's what I learned also to write the G and I really have new new weapons that I will use for my festival in the future. So but if you send out 500 to 700 what emails or contacts and you get one positive response two responses and only one is positive how do you deal with that kind of discouragement you just keep doing it and coping or you just do it by road or to me that would be very very difficult. Well you know I told you at the beginning this is like a spiritual question because when when I was growing up I couldn't do and have what I wanted to do because of from where I was and and it was work here and I early learned early on that that does not discourage me. I look at that positively and that just gave me a strength I you know I see it as some hole some gap that I could help to make a change and I'm like a bull so I will continue to do that for the festival it's not a discouragement it just raised my stubbornness to to do that more and more and more and more and and and I'm sure it will change some things I see the change also in 25 years of the brass festival you know in example our brass communities small and today we work as a group before that it was not really like that you had few groups and they were like keeping their secrets from the self now and I called my friends for the ITG and Ryan saw that when he was in Croatia they were really interested they tried to help they came they you know it was really it's really easier and I see that I can make change change in the future with the firm so I will continue to do that you know it's just like I don't know the word pendulum pendulum yes I will start to to make it flow and it will become bigger and bigger and I hope so yeah talking about the pendulum when you're when you're sending out emails if you think of the first email you send out in comparison with email number 500 or 700 did you did you change the way you approach things or was it pretty much the same type of of contact that you would make yes I changed some of things that I needed to change to try to get more close to the people I write you know because it's not the same to try to make culture closer to someone who works with the cars or to someone who works with I don't know wood all day so I changed that and I also changed my way I was not so distant but I tried to make them closer and they feel that they really can make a difference. Because if you make a difference to one person, you really can make a difference to a group and more people and then community. And that's something what I try to do. Well, Ryan, what thing go wrong? Are the things that you worry about that you try and plan in advance that something can go wrong and how do you deal with that? Of course. The good news is, you know, we have a lot of experience with the big conferences. We've got an incredible team in place. TJ Tess is our treasure, Rebecca Wilts is our conference director, Anthony Salabria is our assistant conference director. And we just have such an amazing team that I think we're prepared for anything. I think what we're most excited about and also nervous about is to see who comes and who attends. And but I've given the amount of great trumpet playing and music that we're going to share. I can't help but feel good that it's going to be a huge success. And so we're really excited about it. And it's happening. I mean, it really realistically in two and a half weeks. Tom, can you believe it's going to be two and a half weeks? So we've been organizing and planning this for almost two years now, Tom, huh? Like very close. Yes, very close. And so, you know, to see it come to fruition is going to be really, really special for both of us. Yeah, at the beginning when Ryan approached me, I was afraid and I said that I would like to do this in 2026 to gain more time for it. But we squeezed it in two years. And I must say when you say what could go wrong, a lot of things. But I think that first of all, on the field, we prepared really well. And also to have ITG behind yourself. And by that, I mean certain people like Ryan, like Anthony Salabaria, who works on the web and who really responds in minutes. I think that that guy never sleeps. And Rebecca chose him wisely to be her assistant. Then you have Rebecca Wilde, who is always there for advises and has really nice and great ideas. And, you know, everyone in ITG, I don't want to left anyone out. But everyone, and I'm so thankful for that because then we on the field, my colleagues Marco and Tom, who are helping me a lot. It's easier to work and it's easier to ask. And then you can prepare for anything that could possibly go wrong. So I think we have venues and yeah, I expect, you know, I have a little anecdote, Ryan knows it. We have Latron Petit de Lyon, who will come and they will have a closing concert in a theater. And we are still fighting with officials not to change air conditioning pipes in theater on that particular Sunday and weekends. So, you know, things like that. But we have a plan B, we have a plan C, and we have really, we have normal people who will solve things normally. So everything is under control, I think. I mean, there's no way to prepare for everything. But I feel like we have such a good plan. And we have the right people to help put out fires. So and that I think we feel like we're in a good spot. One question I had not thought of asking, but since you say this is basically a two year project, are you planning that as soon as this is over, you're going to sleep for about two days straight? I hope Tom takes like, you know, six weeks off. I know he won't because Tom doesn't roll like that. But I, for me, I'm actually on sabbatical this semester. So I will have a little time to decompress. But like Tom, I also find myself enjoying being busy. And so I actually more thrive in a situation where I'm doing more things than just sitting around. And so I'm sure I'll, you know, feel good about it for a day. And then actually I, when I come back from from Zogra, um, see you. Uh, we're hosting the Cleveland principles. Uh, so Mike's actually will be here like two days later. And so I'll be hanging out with him and watching him teach my students. And so onto the next thing. Tom, I'm sure you, I, you could answer as well. But I, I know you and I know you're not, there's no rest for the weary. You know, I spoke with my daughter and she said, well, I was asleep when I die. So that's maybe a good point. Also, if you, when you do something and, and you do it with good energy, you don't need to sleep. I would like to sleep two years in a row. But I like also to do some work. And I'm happy when I see things grow, uh, things that I planted. What I will do for sure. I will be more with my family because these last four months, you know, I, I try to be, but I know that I'm not a good father, a good husband, and a good son as I used to be because I'm always on the phone when I am speaking with them. I'm always watching and scrolling and answering important emails on mail, Facebook, WhatsApp, Wiber, you know, it's, it's a lot of people and you want to be for everyone here. And what is very frustrating for me is that I like to answer things promptly and I like to answer to everyone and this is so many things to do that you cannot possibly do that. So that's what I will do. Uh, when I do my teaching calendar, I want to use the free time for myself and my family. Yeah, that's really important. You know, talking about sleep, um, early on, one of the interviews I had was with David Newman, the Hollywood film composer. And he talked about a specific occasion where he went, I think he had to go do like 50 hours straight of composing for a project that was going to be recorded in Japan. And he, he had a 24 hour period, I think in, in the United, in Los Angeles where he was. And then I guess his wife was making him coffee all the time and then he got on the plane, he composed on the plane and all of that. And I said, oh man, if I had 50 hours, you know, straight, I'd die. And he said, no, no, you're too scared to die. So that's something I think maybe comes into play occasionally. Well, let's, um, completely change where we're going. And let's talk about your individual careers and, um, Ryan, you studied, um, you had some phenomenal teachers. You studied at Eastman. He got your, um, bachelor's at Eastman with Jim Thompson and then, uh, rice with Mary Spatiali and then Manhattan with Glenn Gould and Vince Pence around. So maybe you could talk about those teachers and the experiences you had and what was similar and also maybe different with these teachers. Yeah, I have, really been so fortunate to have extraordinary teachers. Um, I'd also include Boyd Hood, who is my, my high school teacher. Um, and, um, I feel like Boyd really set me up so well, fundamentally, always thinking about music and trying to be the most expressive player, um, that I possibly could, uh, and then when I started working with Jim, um, we were actually really focused on solo repertoire, for my, for a lot of my time, um, at Eastman. And so I was probably going through, like, a major solo every week, um, here and there and, um, so I feel like that was a really interesting, um, journey for me. I was still doing a lot of work in the orchestra because I was lucky enough to be doing a lot of subbing with the Rochester Philharmonic at that time. Um, so still getting that orchestral track, but really diving into the solo literature fundamentals. Um, you know, Thompson is really big on the buzzing book and sort of like trying to play as efficient, efficiently as possible. Um, and so all that was amazingly helpful. Uh, when I started studying with Marie Speziali, it was, um, really amazing. We worked a lot on air and, um, we were really actually focused on orchestral, um, training. And so I think I thought that's what I was going to do at that point in my career. And, um, you know, I was doing really well in the audition circuit, things were going well, getting close. Um, and then, um, I kind of was at this crossroads of do I want to stay one more year at Rice and keep taking auditions or do I want to, maybe think about getting a doctorate and moving to New York, because I really wanted to work with Mark Gould and Vince Pensarot at the time. And, um, so I decided I, and I had, I had some really incredible experiences teaching. One of my, my first high school student is now, uh, he, I ended up sending him over to Whiffrudd, um, where he did his, his bachelors and he's gone on to an extraordinary career. He's a trumpet professor at, uh, a really big university here in the, the States. And so I kind of got bit by the bug because I just love the kind of person that I am is I get more enjoyment from seeing other people succeed than I kind of do myself. Um, and so that sort of led me to, to New York City and I, uh, went to the next and I studied with Mark. And Mark was really incredible of kind of like, almost breaking down my brain and like building me up a lot stronger and making me a lot more mentally tough. And so I'm really, really grateful for that. Mark is such a beautiful musician too. So, you know, always artistry. And then when I studied with Vince and I ended up writing my dissertation on Vince Panzaro's Pedagogico Philosophies and Techniques, it was also just kind of like, wow, like just really simple, like just music, air. Here's how you practice. Here's how you be efficient. And so, and really more of like imagining what you want to sound like and then tapping into that and then producing that, whatever you're hearing in your imagination. So, you know, what I would say is you can hear, there's like, while they all were teaching me different things in different ways, everybody was kind of about the same thing. Fundamental training, playing with a great sound, using your air efficiently and then always promoting artistry first. And so I would say that was sort of like the common theme throughout my teaching. And I feel like one of the reasons that I feel so fortunate is because they all teach so differently. And I feel like that's been really helpful in me being able to connect with students really differently. I have like, I can, you know, one thing doesn't work. I was like, okay, so what did Miss Spatiali tell me about this or would Miss Dupin Zarella tell me about this? Or, you know, and so I have a lot of ways to kind of work with students while getting the same result. - So, a couple of questions about that. First of all, with Mark Gould, how did he break you down? What do you mean by that? - Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, I think Mark saw me as like somebody who was accomplished, but I think Mark thought I was playing the trumpet too much. And so he kind of was like just kind of making things like don't practice as much, but make your practice time more efficient. And so like, you know, there were moments where maybe I wasn't even playing the trumpet enough. Like I went almost 180 degrees the other way. And that kind of led me to, you know, really deciding like how much do I want this? Because when I wasn't playing enough, I wasn't feeling as confident and Mark was so helpful in terms of like, you know, saying, okay, maybe we've swung the pendulum the other way. And then really like, you know, when you feel at your weakest, right, you're worse than to have somebody kind of build you all the way back up and show you how what's really important and how to kind of have that kind of confidence again. That was a really special time for me. So that's how he kind of broke me down. It's almost like I was like just probably playing too tired, which I think is like a common issue for a lot of trumpet players. And then realizing that maybe I don't have to work that much. And then showing me that like there's a much better path that led me to much more success and a much more stronger mental game. Yeah, it's interesting for me because I know Boyd quite well. We played in the LA Chamber Orchestra together and have a really good friendship, have had a lot of laughs over the years together. He's amazing. Yeah, yeah. And I know Maria more of his in acquaintance, I guess. And then of course Mark, I know somewhat well, I guess. And really like him. I've never met Vincent Pensarella. And to me, just from afar, he seems like a bigger than life character. And I think I would be really intimidated meeting him. You know, Mr. Pensarella is like an old school Italian guy, right? So like you definitely want to call him Mr. Pensarella. OK. Or you probably don't need to, but I did. Well, no, I'm sure I would. So he wouldn't show up at the first lesson and say, high events. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, honestly, what's interesting about Vince is he is a larger than life character. And you know, he's sort of known as like a Mr. Fixit, but like never really talks about chops ever. And so I just remember when I was doing my dissertation with him on him and just like talking about so many things. And we just have hours and hours of like laughs and stories on recording, on many discs. The kids won't know what that is, but you and I will. And so it just was such a fun time and experience to like learn from him in that kind of way to a different way other than just like teacher, student, sitting and saying, well, how do I get better? Mr. Pensarella, but just kind of like really diving into the way that he thinks about teaching and music. And I think he's one of the best trumpet players I've ever heard. I mean, wow. Yeah, you know, just in terms of if you think about that old school in New York, you know, with with with fill and events. I mean, I think that they were such an incredible team and just so inspiring to hear. So you know, I heard a story Bob Sullivan told me this story. And I'm sure I'm not going to get totally correct. But the main idea hopefully will come across where Bob was playing with the New York Philharmonic. And he was playing on a piece, I guess, where Phil didn't play first. So Bob was playing first. And this one concert, he nicked a note or missed a note or something didn't go the way he wanted to. So the next day, you know, they were sitting on stage before the concert and Mr. Pensarella said, so how are you doing today? Or something like that. And Bob said, oh, boy, I really sort of screwed up last night blah, blah, blah. And I guess Vince got all over him and he said, this is New York Philharmonic. You should be happy to be here to be able to make music with this, you know, with this orchestra. Don't whine about it or something like that. But I'm getting it wrong, I'm sure. But it was like he really got on his case and said, every day here is, it should be like a great pleasure. - That's just the way he always was. You know, Vince was in a really bad accident and he ended up going like face first through a car. - Wow. - Yeah. And you know, how did you like kind of like a rebuild of his whole plan? He ended up working with Arnold Jacobs and, you know, coming back and instill being the amazing Mr. Pensarella that we know him to be. But I think that really changed his outlook on life, you know, every day as a privilege and we get to make music and make artistry. And so that doesn't surprise me at all. - Yeah, that's great. Well Tom, you've had some not so bad teachers either. You first studied with Thomas Reiner in Stuttgart and then you're the Geiger and Hungary. But then you did you have master classes with Pierre Tobot or actually studied with Tobot? - So first I studied in Zagreb and I finished Music Academy in Zagreb. And I studied under Stan Kosellak, who was a big teacher here and I need to say, I mean, it's really interesting. He was student Stan Kosellak, was a student of Viennese trumpet player, Franza Dengler, who premiered Strauss and Malar symphonies and stuff like that. And he was in class with Helmut Fobish for whom Pils wrote Sonata and Concerto. So Stan Kosellak really knew what he was doing. But I was unlucky generation that he went to his retirement and I was searching where I could go study and I went to different master classes and then first of all I came to Ed Tarr who introduced me to ITG and also told me, well, I don't have a place in Basel for you but maybe you can try to go to see with this guy who started to work in Freiburg and his name is Tony Blog so you can try to reach him out and I remember how nervous I was to call you to turn the phone number. Yeah, I'm even more intimidating than Vince Pensarello. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and then, you know, after my studies in Zagreb, I studied some time with you and then after that, I went to privately study with Pierre-Tibault and also with the Judge Geiger and Thomas Heiner. Everyone other than that was master classes and also I had the opportunity to have few lessons, not few but a lot of lessons with David Baldwin in USA. That happened later in my career just as Thomas Heiner happened later. I went to USA to play evasion piece at Jeweljords, a trio for trumpet, cello and piano that Eric wrote for Velico Gordizapras Festival and I had a New York premiere there and then David Baldwin invited me to his school to do a workshop and I actually used him to give me some lessons and I learned really a lot. So yes. Wow, great. And you were responsible for that ovation trio being real. - Yes, I was in touch since '90s with Eric Yvesen and he influenced my way of thinking on music and I must say that Ed Tar and you are also the guilty ones for that because you taught me to perceive music like a musicologist and also like a composer. So also to get in touch with composers to try to see, you know, I remember one lesson with you when I argued with you about what the piece was but maybe it was hint of it or something and I argued strongly about some part and you said, "Well, it's pity, this guy, it's not a life because we could form him and ask him what he wanted to write here." So yes, whenever I have the opportunity to contact the composer, I do it and I just liked Eric Pieces and I have contacted him, he was so nice with me and we became friends and when I started the brass festival in Velika Goritsa, I invited him. I even got a grant from American Embassy and he was the only composer who got the grant in Croatia and that was the only grant he got from American Embassy anywhere in the world and he decided to write a trio for piano, trumpets and cello and I'm a little bit guilty about that because I wanted him to write that piece because his trio with violin is so nice and then also this trio I played with the flute and also with the trombone. So it's versatile piece, it can be played in different ways. Of course Eric Pieces. Enough the pastoral. No, it's not pastoral, it's really a trio for trumpet, trombone, a trumpet cello and piano. Oh no, yeah, that. It's kind of cello you can play it with trombone or with the flute. So I did both ways and then speaking about composers, I was also lucky to get James Stevenson to compose a piece and that's a special piece because it's called Croatia and the cool part is that in the third movement you have more code that say Croatia and it's difficult piece, it's really nice piece and it's cool piece. Join us in part two where Ryan reflects on the profound influence of his teachers including Mark Gould and Vince Pensarella. While Tom Slough's lessons learned from legends like Marisa Andre and Pyrrty Bo, together they explore their unique teaching philosophies focusing on the individual needs of their students. We wrap up by celebrating the vibrant future of the trumpet community with Ryan emphasizing our love for the trumpet and music bonds us together. To enjoy the remainder of the conversation consider becoming a contributing listener by clicking the big blue button on our podcast website to start a free trial. You can also go directly to Anthony Plogue, Dash on Dash music dot supercast dot com. As a contributor you'll gain access to exclusive audio content and Tony's podcast reflections where he recaps his interviews with valuable insights for students. You'll also join our discord community where you can participate in ongoing discussions and share ideas with fellow listeners. Thank you for tuning in and don't forget to help us spread the word. [Music]