Ryan Clark Tells T.I. How He Almost Died… Then Won a Super Bowl

(upbeat music) - You said that the name of your podcast is Pivot. So tell me what the biggest adjustment is that you had to make entering the NFL. - That's a good question. - The biggest adjustment I had to make was understanding my worth wasn't tied to the amount of money I was making. - Mm. - You know, I'm an undrafted free agent. So you work your way up in all of these different ways and the way that you feel valued is by how much somebody pays you. - Most of the time. - I play with, I'm with Sean Taylor, by the way, when you mentioned him in your song, it was, it meant a lot to me. - Right on. - So I'm with Sean Taylor, we're playing well together, we're both young, we're in year two and year four, I'm thinking that's why I'ma be the rest of my life. You know, I'm trying to get a contract and they steal as the first time. - This is with Washington. - Okay. - The other time. - So the Washington was the first team. - So I was the giant. So it was the giants for two years, Washington for two years. I went to the Steelers for eight and I finished in Washington. So this is before I went to Pittsburgh and I'm basically begging them to keep me. Right as the first team that gave me real opportunity to start, we were good, we were young. I had friends there and my wife liked it there and they're like, nah, we can't pay you, but they went and made Adam Archer letter, the highest paid safety in history of the NFL. - Mm. - Right and so I go to Pittsburgh and it was having to have the conversation with myself because they didn't see my value. Doesn't mean I don't have one. I just have to go out and prove it again. - Right. - Right and it was having to understand that that I think was the biggest adjustment to me because then to that point, like I said, I played the game because I loved it 'cause I have a passion for it. But now when you tie money into it, it's impossible to not allow money to factor into how you see yourself. - It's the scoreboard. It's how you keep school. - Yeah. - And so that was the biggest adjustment to me to be able to walk into a building every day and know that my effort, that my output, my contributions can be bigger than the paycheck. - Well, I think it's like, okay, as a commodity, okay. I feel like players in the NFL, NBA, MLB, you know what I mean, any major league player, you are just like a corporation on the stock market. Okay, you're like a corporation, they're gonna buy and at the lowest that they can, if it's bad news, and they gonna try to get the most they can for you when it's good news. And that's just what it is, you know what I'm saying? But how do you rationalize that even though I'm giving 100%, there are other things that factor in to me receiving 100% of that value? - The thing for me was, I stopped looking at how big my neighbor's house was and only was concerned with mine. - That's right. I had these goals of being able to take care of my family of being able to do certain things and I was able to do that, right? Through my hard work, through my blessings, the opportunities God gave me, I was able to take care of my family, take care of generations of my families, be able to help my parents, right? Like, my parents, you know, my parents still live in New Orleans, you know, after Katrina, the house called on fire, right? So we had to rebuild the house. I was able to do all that based on what I accomplished. And so I had to not look at the safety from this team or the guy from this team that was making more money than me, right? Just 'cause this house might have been bigger, didn't mean my house wasn't big enough. - That's right. - And that was the thing I had to really come to grips with to understand, like we were talking about earlier, if you have a level of faith at the plan or the path God has for you is your path, you can't look at anybody else's. - This is true. - Because God has blessed us all with gifts and he had, we all have, I guess you could say, spoils or profits that we will receive for us, you know, making the best of those gifts. But if we look away from our blessings to look at somebody else's, we'll never truly receive all of the blessings that we have right here in front of us. - It's the, it's very simple, right? There's no time that you was ever in your neighborhood racing and the finish line was there that you ran your fastest look at at him, right? There was no time when there was like ready, set, go, and you ran the whole way trying to see where he was and you was as fast as you could possibly be, like you got it, you had to look at the finish line, you had to look at where you were going and sometimes you realize when you stopped looking to the side, that your pace is actually faster, you were slowing down to their pace watching them. But the thing is to be on it with you man, I found for me the best thing is to just race myself. I'm just trying, I'm just trying to do the best that I'm able to do because that's what's gonna get me everything I got coming. If I'm comparing my pace with your race, I ain't gonna never be satisfied. - I agree. - You know what I'm saying? I don't, whatever God got for you, man, blessings, keep it. I'm going for what is, while I'm on earth, I won't was here for me. And that's it, I don't want nobody else, I just want one man. I think that, you know what I'm saying? But a lot of times it'd be the people that we surround ourselves with that kind of being out here that we listen to, that we allow, you know what I'm saying? To penetrate our own psychological experience. And you know what I'm saying? It could be the woman that you got. It could be, you know, the homeboys that you got. You know what I'm saying? A lot of times, you know, my homeboys, I tell them all the time, my homeboys are more competitive in this shit than I am, you know what I'm saying? My homeboys will see, you know, other people that's coming up or other people that's doing it being. And they're like, man, you see what they're doing, man? You know, I'm like, man, let them do it. I'm focusing on this, this is what I'm doing. I'm doing this right here. And we all have seasons, man. It's a season to sow. And it's a season to reap. If you hear me, they might be in a reaping season. I'm still sowing. I'm not gonna stop my sowing to try to reap too soon 'cause then I didn't messed up my harvest. I'm gonna continue to sow my seeds and plow my land until, and now when my reaping season came, now, you know, somebody else might be sowing. So for them to look at me and compare, my success right now to whatever there is is, it's just not realistic. It ain't fair to them or me. - The big piece about your surroundings is, most times when people are, whether they're comparing things that they see from other people, they're doing it because they believe in you and they love you. - Most times, most times. - Yeah. - Right, most times. Outside of that, the way we have to conceptualize it is you're talking about sowing is what you control. - Right, that was how I judge myself. I didn't judge myself on the outcome, right? 'Cause you talk about the scoreboard. Let's say I work hard the entire week, right? I do everything I'm supposed to do. I get all the treatment I'm supposed to get. I get all the work I was supposed to get. I practice hard, I stay up late, I watch film. I do everything I'm supposed to do, right? And I get in the game and they throw the down ball to Randy Moss. You know what? He left the hospital with more than me. And sometimes I could be perfect and Randy Moss might be better. If all I focused on is the outcome, if all I focused on is how much success I have, there is no way to be content in who I was and who I prepared to be, right? Now don't get me wrong. I'm gonna look at the scoreboard and be pissed off. I'm not gonna talk for an hour after the game, right? I'm gonna understand that I gotta go be better because this is what I love. This is the way I feed my family. But what I controlled, I did. So I don't have to be upset about that. - Now that brings me to a phenomenal question that I think you could answer better than anybody. Now I think you might have. Would you say Randy Moss was the toughest matchup that you faced? - Yeah, he said, 'cause he had alien. (laughing) Like, Randy, but honestly though, that's truly the feeling you had though, that I could do everything perfectly and it still won't be good enough. And there's some peace in that and there's also some sadness in it, right? And I played like I was talking about Sean. Man, I remember Sean's rookie year, we played Minnesota Randy Moss, right? So this Randy Moss, this Randy Moss, mooned in the field goal post, all that. And I remember the entire week, I didn't know he did that. - Yeah, he's phenomenal. Straight cash, homie. Straight cash, that's some how you pay it. He said straight cash, I'm gonna start doing my own interviews. Sean was a rookie, bro, so he's 21 at the time. Freakin' nature like Randy, right? Like legitimately, just mirror images of each other, play the other side of the ball. He had zero doubt the entire week that he was better than him. - Okay, right. - Moss. - No, he was better than him. - Yeah, Sean, yeah, he's zero doubt. There was zero fear, there was zero respect. It wasn't and not in like a disrespectful way, but it's not like me I was like shoot I'm a randy so I'ma back up Right cuz that's the smart thing to do That's what smart people do But for Sean, it was like you know the same way man like I'm sure sometimes you get on the microphone and you like You know you got a feature with somebody like now. I'm that too. Yeah, like that was his thinking. He was like I'm that too and so to me That was I think that would be like Lil Wayne, you know, you know, I'm saying you get on a record with Wayne. You go have to You know how to stand up from the end oh, so yeah, so I absolutely like I think that way definitely a free good nation and so Randy Randy was like that for me man It was like, you know, I'm gonna do everything I'm supposed to do But my thing is like how how physical can I be with him? How dirty cannot make it because if it's pretty and it's perfect He's better than me, right, but is he willing to get into the muck with me? Is he willing to do some things that when all your houses paid for it all your calls cars paid for a straight cash home It and I'm willing to do because I'm still trying to get there and if I could drag him into that world That's my world and see that is the that's the mindset of the people Online that's they mindset right there You feel me that's where they at with it You know, he's already up here. He has everything good. How can I drag him down to this dirty place where I can give a little bit of that light on me Yeah, and I think that's what we both had to learn Right and you got to but you know what I see a lot of of I think how can I say it? I see a lot of security and a lot of Belief in yourself when you say you you you estimated where you were in your performance and say well If I play it like that, he's better than me A lot of people are so oblivious to their own ability that they aren't willing to make that statement That's self-awareness though that in indeed right in the way I focused on football is the same way I focus on life I have to put myself in position to accentuate my positives and Decrease my opportunities for my negatives to show right and so if I'm if I say to myself I'm not faster than Randy Mosswell. I need to give Randy Moss some space right right if I say to myself I can't jump higher than Randy Mosswell I need to figure out how to get one hand tight one hand down to his side with a referee don't see so I can reach high on the side like you got to but you got to be like that in life right if if I'm an alcoholic I Can't continuously put myself in bars right because now I'm behind the wheel Well, absolutely Absolutely, but in the sense of how do I stay away? From something that is impacting my life negatively and so I think I try to do that level of assessment Every day in my life now because I want to have as much positive output as I possibly can while my eyes are open You've done something that most people who Went undrafted never getting an opportunity to do you want a Super Bowl? Yeah, you want a Super Bowl We're one of the best scores that anybody could ever hope to play with Can you talk about your mindset during your Super Bowl run? Yeah, absolutely still The year before almost died. Hmm. How so? I had a sickle cell crisis in Denver and I lost my spleen my going bladder piece of my liver. What had it had it so you were born with sickle so straight Oh, you had to sickle so true right and then 1% of the people that have it you can actually experience a crisis in altitude From overexertion. Yeah, I did right and so I played there once did you know that beforehand? No, I didn't I didn't know that my I can go into crisis I knew I had to trade though. Okay, but you didn't know that the altitude and overexertion. You know that okay Well because one yeah, I realize it's a Disease that affects minorities, right? So the awareness the research the funds Put into finding cures and finding medications It's not like with some of the other illnesses that affect less people right, um, and so I'd played there once before and I had a crisis and I was affected, but it was misdiagnosed right legitimately going to Denver I laugh with my wife. I say baby be funny. Something happened to my spleen again. What to that right? And so she laughed it off energy. So when my homeboy calls her energy whatever So my homeboy calls her from the plane and it's like they take her right off the plane Cuz getting on the plane. I told the doctor. I say my spleen hurts and they were like, well, how would you know? How could you recognize your spleen hurt because it happened the other time I played in Denver, but it was misdiagnosed Exactly what the feeling was and so I remember they take me to the hospital They give me some pain man. It's like basically we can't do anything for you So they send me back to the hotel one of the doctors is there and I remember like I just couldn't like I had never been in so much pain So I just took a shower. I put the air conditioning down. Low as it could possibly be I took a cold shower, bro, and I just laid on the floor because I was like maybe I can make myself cold enough Why don't feel anything? My kids come out the next day. I stayed in the hospital to bring me home by the time I went to surgery a month and a half later I was 205 pounds the night we played the game. I was 160 pounds when they put me in the hospital damn Um, so you go you do that and so now When I'm cleared in January the doctor tells me If you can rehab or if you can build your body back up you should be able to play football Right, you should be able to do it again And I remember the first game we played against Houston And I remember walking out and that game felt like the Super Bowl You know, I'm saying like when the doctor came into the bathroom to take me to surgery because they was trying to figure out what disease I had so I had uh, I got an infection Right, so my spleen was four times its size. Okay, so two times they vacuumed it Right, so the second time they're vacuuming it. I woke up in the middle And so the doctor looks at me. I look at him and uh, he's like, are you okay and my question to him was should I be And he was kind of like well if you could take the pain then we could finish and my mind said was if if he's telling me this There's some civilian that don't play ball that ain't as tough as me that could probably do this. So I got to do it Right, so I do that and so the next so let's talk about the pain Yeah, I never felt nothing like yeah, I realized the vacuums like this And it's in your side. Yeah, it's under my under my left rib Mm-hmm, right so under my left rib and so I can watch him. I can how long I did that let how long So probably over 30 minutes that I had that was it that over 30 minutes. Yeah, so there was no And it was it won't they can give you no more. No, I guess they ran out. I don't know if they I don't know if they ran out But like that was the thing and so When I got to the room Literally, they will me in and my wife looked at my face and she goes what happened Because like she already knew um, you know, and so My fever every night broke probably like three weeks my fever would get up to like 104 every night And so I was in the hospital and it starts to happen so they ice pack you Right, so the ice packed me and then they move me and so they all these cool and things on me And it just wouldn't go down and so the morning they take me to And this is the with I'm playing at Pittsburgh and my doctor looked just like Tom Brady So I know I'm like I know I'm a guy, you know, I'm saying like I was like, you know You didn't think automatically maybe he's the best at this And I was like ain't no way doctor Tom Brady go save me Like he was so good. Yeah, yeah, I'm like he go and I remember man. I was in the bathroom The morning of surgery because I still wasn't supposed to go. There's trying to figure out what the infection was so they could treat it I was in the bathroom. I was crying. I was on the floor of my wife and I told her. I was like, yeah, I'm cool It's like I'm done fighting You know, I was like if it's like if this is what God has for me Then I understand it and major peace. Yeah a week before You know, and if I've told a story publicly like in this form a week before I was watching The team play on TV And my mom was there my mom who they would play Cincinnati, okay, it's playing Cincinnati and my mom was there And my mom like a super prayer. I already told her how long she had me in church on Sunday. She go every day Um, and I remember I started shaking because I was cold And I was like I asked my mom my wife. I said hey, do you have windows open? And they were like no, so I'm shaking. So my mom puts all these covers over me like put stuff on my head. She rubbing like Bless the oil on my head. So she's praying and so my wife runs to the bathroom and gets the hair dryer And so she puts it under the cover, but she had it on cool I was like, that's like baby, that ain't it You know, and uh and brought like and so I'm still shaking and I can't stop And my mom's praying so I start praying And uh the first thing I asked for I was like, you know, I was like God please let my girls Find good men Right, and I said and I pray that my son grows to be a better man than I ever was and he takes care of the girls The best he can and I was like and I pray that my wife can move on for me and live a great life find a great love As long as he's not better looking God, this prayer is about me. Will you please give her a shirt up? What a words you've earned. Hell I have for sure, hell I have. - Teeth messed up, but I do want it to be a good dude. And then, and I said, God, and I said anything that I've done-- - Give her somebody beautiful on the insides, though. - Only on the insides. - And I said, and I said, God, you know, anything I've done that didn't edify your kingdom or any ways that I've disappointed you, please forgive me. And I said, amen. And, you know, I've told this in like, private forms. I immediately stopped shaking. - Ooh, right. So like, at that time, I was like, oh, this isn't my time to go. - Right. - But that morning, man, like, I just was tired. You know, we had been going through it for so long. - Did you finish watching the game? - The game was over by this point. - Okay, got you. Thank God, I think we won. - You won, I think we won. But like that, you know, and so, I say all that to say, tip, that season, the entire season was the Super Bowl. You know what I mean? I remember the thing I kept thinking about was, when I was sick, and then even after I was sick, when I didn't think I was going to play again, I kept thinking to myself, what was the last play? Right, what was the last play of the game? Because like, if I died, I felt like, whenever ESPN ran that I died, they were going to show the last play of the game. - Right. - My thing was, truly, every snap of every football game could actually be your last play. So what does it look like? - Right. - And I vowed after that that every single play, nobody would play harder, nobody would get to the football, more, nobody would be more physical, more violent than I was because if they had to put it on the ticker, Ryan Clarks never playing again. This was his last play, Ryan Clarks died. I wanted it to look like what I wanted it to look like. - That's right. - So when we get to the Super Bowl, bro, that year, bro, we was on the cover of ESPN, the magazine, going into the playoffs, the defense, and we're playing, I'm going to be honest with you. - Yeah, I was cold. - Tip, I'm going to switch it. Lariff is jerk, put it on our ass, though. (laughs) Lariff, hey, the four quarter till he's going crazy so much. So Coach Tomlin had to come give us a pep talk at the Santonio home score, bro. Coach Tomlin had to come tell us because we, bro, we got boys over there with tears in their eyes, we cussing each other out. Coach Tomlin's like, if y'all stop him, y'all still a legendary defense, because that entire year, all we done was dominate. For three quarters in that Super Bowl, all we done is dominate, made plays. - So in the second, so in the second, you was at safety. - Me and Troy. - Me and Pallamalu. - Troy Pallamalu, James Harrison. - Okay. - It was a beast. - Monster. - I'm talking about it. - Just lost in my nature. - Freaking nature, and actually crazy. - A hell-knit popper. - Yeah, just like actually crazy. - And I had a chance to kick over here, man. We was in, man, we was at the end of the day. - Okay. - And we were backstage together. We were kicking it, man, just chopping it up. It was before we went out on Ocho Sinko in shape, Shannon Shaw's show, and it was a live show, but you know what I'm saying? So they had him come out, me come out, and I believe they had a La Russa lawsuit. So all of us was on the same show separately, but on the same show, none the less. And he just, you know, he got them eyes. - No, something really wrong with him. - He got them eyes, man, you know what I'm saying, man. - And he my dog, or something wrong with him. - He doesn't bend through something. - Yeah, he wants to do it, but you got to meet his mama. - For real? - She won't play no games. - Okay. - Yeah, she made him look nice. (laughing) - Yeah, like Ms. Mildred, hey, hey, Ms. Mildred, how are you doing? It's so nice to see you, like, she is in, but as throw it off, as we can all tell, he heals. He's extremely polite. - Yes, and cordial, you know what I mean. - Because people like him need to give other people the least amount of space to disrespect him as possible. Like, he needs to know that if you disrespect him, you went out your way. - Then that means he's validated. - That means he's validated. Like, if he mistreats you, or bumps into you, and he's rude, and you rude back, that's not really your fault. - You just kinda like returning energy. - Right, exactly. - But if he's polite to you, and you still come at him-- - He gets to return energy. - He gets to return energy. And so I think that's what he's doing. - That makes sense. - He's making you have to go out of your way to get beat up. - I don't think nobody's going that way. - No, that's not true, man. - You know, he makes sure, but, like, yeah, he's gonna work out with him. - Yeah, 'cause the workout is crazy. - So the trainer that he ended up training with for, basically, most of his career, I introduced him. - Yeah, so we all trained together, worked out together, and he wanted those people, you both, - Was he always-- - Did he always bench press the most in the locker room? - No, we had some lineman, like the bench press more. He just wanted to do it more than they did it. - He was one of those people that overdid it. Like, he wanted to make sure everybody knew that you weren't going out working, you weren't going to be more prepared than he was, and he was one of those dudes, man. Like, for sure, for us, he set the tone that if you come to this side of the football, they might carry you off on the stretcher. - Hmm, we was comfortable with that. - And they changed a lot of rules for y'all. They changed it for the player's protection, of course. - They did the right thing. (laughs) - They did the right thing. - And now you help advocate for the protection of players. - I wasn't then. - When you were the antithesis of that application, the advocacy back then. - But I remember, so when they may, started making the player safety initiative, my homeboy was coaching in Green Bay, and he called me, and he goes, "Hey, man, this video is just a highlight film of you and James." (laughs) And like that, bro, me and James, if they had 13 plays, we were a tin of them, damn. - They're like, can't do this no more. Can't do that no more. That's illegal. They would come to us before the games, and they'd be like, I had 2492, like, keep it clean. (laughs) - I should be like, honestly, guys, I'm trying to keep it clean. - I really feel like y'all put too much emphasis on what I'm doing instead of being focused on what y'all doing. Now, man, but like, the game needed to be different. The game needed to change. My son plays for the Jets, no. I'm glad he plays in a safer game, more skilled, a more skilled game that, then, was ours. - Oh, man. - You know, what did you feel about Michael Irving's rent when he said, you know what I mean? - He was a lot of. Now, I'm talking about the one where he talked about people. He said, when they were judging their time in the game, versus he is. - Yeah. - 'Cause he played when pain was a part of the game and coming through that middle was more uncertain. - 100%. - Michael Irving is 100%. - Correct. - Did you think it was, like, back when he played, that they improved it to a point from then to the time that you played? - Not much. - Okay. - They started during my time. - Okay, okay. - Right, Roger Godell, Dima Riesmith. Like, they started to understand the effects of it, but you also had to realize that that's when the concussion suits were out as well. - Got it. - Right, so as much as it is true, the game-- - That's when the awareness presented itself. - The game needed to change, but that's when we also started to study it in a way for its long-term effect on players. And now, we know the difference in between how many times a defensive lineman and offensive lineman makes contact with their head, that's compared to a safety in a cornerback, and now we know how to keep them as safe as possible. So it definitely needed to change. But Michael Irvings, right, in this sense, to be as good as he was at that position for so long during his time, it's much different than now. - Right. - I love Jamar Chase, LSU Kid. Right, I coached him in high school in 707. - Okay. - Some of the stuff Jamar gets to do is because of some of the pain that Michael Irving had to endure. Right, when Jamar cast their ball across the middle, and dudes just running up and trying to bump on like this, like that wasn't like, I used to walk it to the stadium and tell them every argument, like people we talking trash, man, I'm not finna talk all that. I used to be like, that's how people go to sleep. All that you talking in's very quickly if I get my shot. And now, and but that was the game we could play. - Yeah. - You're talking about, you talked about walking in the stadium. Can you please tell me your most memorable behind the scenes locker room moment? - I can tell you, yes, I absolutely can tell you my, it's not even a locker room moment. - Okay. Super Bowl. - Okay. - 2008. - Okay. - When, 2010, when we lost the Green Bay. So when you go to Super Bowl, you and the family stayed a certain hotel all week. - Got it. - The night before the game, they move your hotel. Do you know what Bure is? - Bure, the game. - The game. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. - Bure was our game, right? - I didn't see people get boo, boo, like yeah. - Hundreds of thousands of dollars. - Yeah, like, that's offset type. - No, yeah, like just like, I was like, "I was like, bro, I was like, bro, I was like, bro." - Hundreds of thousands. - Hundreds of thousands. - Shit. - And so, till, it's the night before the game, and I would never play, right? I would always sit on the side, 'cause I like my money. I would always sit on the side, but it was like me. It must be a leap of things. - Must be, bro. I was like, I would see where it go. - Yeah. - But they played, I would just always watch. - Where did it come with instructions? - Mine too. Don't lose it, don't stupid shit. And so, so here they are. So they playing tip, man. And one of the homies get booed. And they like, nah, pay me now, 'cause you owed me from last week. And he like, nah, you trippin', you trippin', whatever. They have like money, what's this? - This was tens of thousands of dollars. - Tens of thousands, okay. Was he able to pay at the time? - Well, I think he felt like he was going to be able, to pay at a later date soon, he didn't have it on him. - Oh, he been on his ass. - Yeah, he didn't have it, but he didn't have it on him at the time. He was like, "I got you, I'll pay you." And he was like, "No, I'm not gonna finna keep playing." - But if he didn't, but okay, but they're playing, obviously they're playing together. - Yes. - So they know each other. - Yes. - They know what they contract. - Excuse me. - They know what they contract, seals. - Yes, they don't care. - No, okay, I'm about that. Paying my money. (laughing) - This is, it is not my job to take care of your family. It is your job. - Damn. - So bro, this is not like, this is two people that's gonna play a lot. One full time starter, they stand up and they finna fight. - Right. - And it's the night before the Super Bowl, bro. - Damn. - And you got to make the decision, 'cause most times in the locker room, it's like. - Let 'em fight. - No, go ahead. - Yeah. - Right, and it'll solve the problem. - Yeah. - We'll all be friends. - Everybody be cool afterwards. - One of them get hurt, we in a bad spot. - Right. - And I remember after we break up the fight though, the captain looked at the fight. - No, we made 'em, we kept 'em from fighting. Captain, look at that, me go. We ready. (laughing) - Hey, hey, he was like, he was like, we ready. But man, I think, you know what I mean, that's all. But just one of the coolest things that happened to me was, I had babies, yo. So I had my first, I had my daughter when I was 19. We had my son when I was 21. So when we went to the first Super Bowl-- - That sound like me, man. - Yeah, so when we went to the first Super Bowl, like my son was there to see it. Like so many of these guys' kids never saw them play and never got to experience. Like my son got to see it. And Coach Tomlin, I would always bring 'em to the walkthrough 'cause you know, you try to spend as much time as you can. - Sure. - On Saturday, I would bring 'em to the walkthrough. So we're going into the playoffs. Coach Tomlin calls 'em always like, "Jorda, break us down." He breaks us down, we win. So, you know, all football players are superstitious in some way, I would still bring 'em. Next game, Jordan, break us down, win again. Right, so now we go to the Super Bowl. And because I would bring him every week, Coach Tomlin tells everybody on the team they can all bring two people, two family members to the final walkthrough. So the final walkthrough, we all got two family members there and the team picks up my son before the Super Bowl we win and he breaks us down. And so to me, like just from a locker room standing point from a moment that you shared with your brothers and obviously your kid, that's the moment that will always stand out to me. I'll never forget. - Now, you talked about having children early and I did as well. I had my first child, my son was born 2000. I was 19 years old, the money I had when I was 20, the money in Asia. I had when I was 20. And that kind of, it changes your expectation. It changes how you approach whatever game you're in. Do you recall football ever making you miss moments at home? - Absolutely. - I mean, but the things that you still think about. - No. - You know what? - You let it go. - Not one. - Okay. I never missed a moment for something that wasn't good for my family. If I missed a moment 'cause I wanted to go party. If I missed something doing something sneaky or underhanded, then yeah, I would definitely look back now with somebody who's more aware and be like, you know what, I sold them short in that moment. - Well, you know, I can't say that because I miss two years from prison. - You know, so I still think about this. - Yeah, I think that's totally different. 'Cause my son became a Saints fan. King is a Saints fan. I went to prison. I come home with Saints fan. - What year's will you be doing this, too? - This is the year what is at, this is nine, 2009. - That's Super Bowl Saints, though. - I know it, that what I'm saying. - How does that work in a Falcons house? - That's what I'm saying, bro. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you what, the Saints could be two in 15, right? I'm from the innermost. If those two wins is against the Falcons, they actually, all right, I know it. I have never seen a group of individuals hate another group of individuals based on a sports team. The way these people hate y'all. - Yeah, I mean, you know what? - You actually lucky any of your music cells anymore. - I mean, but the thing is, I mean, that brings me to my next point. We swept y'all last year. So, I played with Pittsburgh. - I know of that, but you're still from New Orleans. I got to get it in. I got to go ahead and leave you with that one. Now, but he did become a Saints fan. I hated this year. I hated it when I came home. Like, you know, he would wear a Saints jersey. And mine, he was so young at the time. He was like eight years old. You know what I mean, eight, nine years old. And I'm like, man, what the hell happened? Man, what happened? So, that's the thing. One of the things I still think about, me leaving home and, you know, missing time, watching football with him, you know. - How did that affect the way you utilized your time after? - Well, I mean, we definitely spent, I put him in football. And, you know, he was actually the best athlete in the family at all the kids. He took to sports a lot more naturally than Messiah, Domain, or even major. Like, he actually had that spark, you know what I mean? That made him want to win, you know. Messiah, Domain, and major. And it was like, I had fun, but, you know. - It was cool. - We didn't win, it was okay. - What's for dinner? I don't, my son is definitely not an is what it is kid. - For real. - Yeah, I used to, he used to take losses so hard. I used to have to end up like being nice. - Mm. - You know, because I used to want to get on him. Hey, man, you got to do this. And he was so distraught. I was like, "Hey, man, it's gonna be okay." You know what I mean? We're gonna play another game. But I think, you know, I was actually talking to your team earlier. You know, I had somebody question me recently. They said, okay, from a schedule standpoint, after you retired, you know, how have you found a way to get a work-life balance? And I was honest with them, there's no such thing. There's no such thing as a work-life balance. There's a work-life understanding. - We have to move at the speed of opportunity. - Yeah, I agree. - Because that window opens and closes sporadically. And we don't know, you know what I mean? As it opens, you got to recognize it's open. You got to optimize the time while it's open. When it's closing, you recognize it. And that's when you get as much time in and you do what you can until it opens again. - Yeah, and I said, no, I said, like, I don't know. And I asked this guy who was talking to me, I asked him a question. I said, tell me, the person in life, you admire that you respect what they've accomplished from a career standpoint who had an ordinary schedule. I don't know one. - I don't need them. - There's not a person in my life that I'm like, man, when Bob wakes up at seven o'clock and drops the kids off and goes to work for eight and then Bob is going up. - I don't know, I don't know anyone. - I don't know, I don't know a person that I admire what they've accomplished. - Well, I may admire them, but I don't admire them for their professional accomplishments. - That's right. - I just said, I admire their character. - Might be great people. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I don't want to be them. (laughing) - And I don't mean that. - I don't mean that in any disrespectful way, because I've learned, I don't like visibility. - Right. - Right, since I've been in a place where like, I could go to like different places and meet different people. When I'm in a room that like, you have to be famous to be in, I shrink. Like, and not shrink, like, I want to make myself - I just find a quiet corner. - That's what I do though, like, I put my, I kind of put my, it's almost like, they started playing, set it off or nuck if you buck it. (laughing) - You know what I'm saying? And you know what's coming up next. - Right. - I kind of just sit on the wall and I observe because I feel uncomfortable. Maybe there's a little bit of imposter syndrome because I'm a football player. And even in that, I was never thought of as the greatest football player. I was never treated like football royalty. And so now you move into this world where your word is valuable, right? There's pros and cons to that. People, you've impacted people. So you get invited to these things. And so that was, like, that was very difficult for me. - Well, outside of what I tend to do is, I go in those rooms, I make my rounds, speak to the people I know, and you know, just very quickly, what's up, man? How you doing, all right, right on, what's up? How you doing? Make my rounds do about eight, nine of those. And then I find my space with anybody who want to talk to me that I know I'm here, yeah. But you speak of yourself as a football player only, but you're also a thinker. You're also because I think people admire your game for the intelligence of it as well as the physical aspect. - Well, that was born out of necessity. Now I am, we talked about my grades. I am naturally smart. And I have a memory, right, that if you tell it to me or if you show it to me as it pertains to football, I don't forget it, right? And so I was able to not only line myself up, but line everybody else up and also know how the other team will attack us. And I was a good enough communicator that if they were gonna come at you a certain way, I give you a few more questions. It's an A to be alert for this, right? So I was able to make people which made you a leader. And it makes people, and I made other people better, right? And I don't know if everybody can say that there are some like individually great players that didn't know how to communicate their greatness, or didn't know how to communicate what they knew. So they killed it within themselves, but the 10 people around them didn't necessarily feed off of that based on what they gave them. That was my job. You also became an analyst, correct? So this is a two-sided question. One, when did you know it was time to walk away from the game, and what made you know that being an analyst was the natural transition? So in November of 2014, I retired on my sofa before I retired in real life. [LAUGHTER] So you knew before we got back in there. Yeah. I said it all out. I told my family, I told my family then because-- But before that season, did you say this is my last-- No, I didn't know. I didn't know. My barber would come to my house every Saturday, and I would have to text my son in the morning and be like, his name was Money. I'd be like, Money's outside, Jordan. Go open the door. I'll be downstairs later. Because he used to take me on Saturday day before the game, it would take me forever to get downstairs. Just hurt, just pain. And so what was happening on Game Day? The payoff wasn't worth it to me. I was no longer getting out of football what I was putting into it. And I knew I couldn't continue that way. And so in November, I told him, I would never let my family come down to the field before the game, because I didn't want to feel loved. Right. Right. You didn't want to feel loved. No, that's why. Yeah, why would I-- with what I was planning on doing humans, I didn't want to connect them to their family. [LAUGHS] Man, you were right. Like, you were the most-- you were the nicest, most polite, savage beast I've ever met. Yeah, good thing about that too. Like, why, why, why? I want to associate that you got a demanding, a major, and a king on Sunday. I'm OK, nothing about that. Nothing, I remember it, bro. And like I say, I didn't say a lot, too, because I was just focused. I remember, dude, cheap shot at me one time, man. I was like, that he's like, yeah, it's like that. I said, I swear to God. I was like, if your kids are watching, that's the last time they're going to ever see you play. And when it ends, I'm going to be standing over your body. I swear to God. And that was just my thought, because it was like, did that come into fruition? No, it took them out of the game. It was late in the game. We was getting beat. That's probably why I said it, too. I was salty. OK, good. It was like, you even had-- you cheap shot at me. Yeah, I was in a bad place, too. I was in a bad place. OK, back to Noville, bro. Yeah, so I told my family. I told my family, I was like, this is it. You know, and I remember, my best friend sends me the picture. So you guys weren't-- so yeah, I weren't in the playhouse. I'm taking-- Oh, no, we were terrible. It's my last year at Washington. We was butt booty. Oh, OK. We was trash. OK, this is watching. OK, cool. I'm thinking. Now, this is-- now, you know, if I was with Coach Tomlough, it was always in it. Yeah. And so I think that was part of it, too. What you think led to you leaving the stillers of the stillers part and ways with you? I think-- I got older, right? I got older. And so the next year, so me, Troy Palamaloo and Ike Taylor started every game. We were all healthy together for eight years. The next year, even though I was gone, we all retired. Yeah. Right? Our last year was all the same year. And I think we just had-- we had such a good run. It was dynamic. But I think Pittsburgh understood that they would have to be moving on at some point. And the one thing you didn't want to do-- like they had to replace two of them. You didn't want to have to replace all three at one time. And so I think I was the one to go. And it was good, though, because I felt like if I was still with them, I would have kept fighting to play. Being in the place where I kind of felt by myself-- You didn't feel the allegiance. Yeah, I didn't go-- you know what, guys? Like, I got to go try to do this for you all one more time. And so that helped. Man, in TV, I was the first active football player to have a TV contract. So I knew-- You were the first active football player to have a TV contract? Ever. How did that work out? I interned. I asked the intern, just undrafted free agent mindset. They would bring me into ESPN. And so I asked the boss who ran the NFL. I said, hey, would it be a problem if I interned? I was like, because I want to do the job for real. Because, like, let's say, if you went to ESPN, somebody would just walk around with you all day, because you're a celebrity, right? And just say, hey, tip you on this show now and come down. And that's what they would do to us, because we were active players. I was like, I don't want that. I was like, I want to get my email like everybody else. I want to study for my shows like everybody else. I want to see if I want to do it. And in that, you can see if I'm good enough. Right. I did it. After I was done, an agent called me and is like, I think we could get you paid. I was like, everybody loves extra money. Yeah, for sure. Right. And that's so that was how I started. But you were still playing at the time. Yeah, so I did that for two years. And I actually retired on TV, on ESPN, and announced my new deal at the same time. Do you recall the toughest quarterback you ever played again? Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers. Green Bay Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers is the best quarterback I've ever played in my life. And you know, people are going to be like, oh, that's sacrilegious, because Tom Brady used to tell you all ass up. Yeah, him too. But the difference was, the difference was, bro. I mean, how was it going into that game, man, which knowing you had to go play Tom? So I am comfortable if you're smart enough to beat me. I hate being in a position where even if I'm better than you, I still might not win. Right. Like Tom, Tom played us so often, too. He just knew everything, like everybody else we could confuse me and Troy would move around. Like Tom would identify the blitz. And as soon as the blitz came, wherever the open spot was, he'd find nothing to do with the notes being taken by the guy down the field. To do that, to do that video, that practice, he might have knew it. I got the Pittsburgh tip you laughing, bro, when I got the Pittsburgh, they wholeheartedly believe that. Yeah. Like they did. They were like, man, there's no way that they are anticipating what we're doing to that level, where they're always right. And so there was a game, 2010, Coach LeBaud, Dick LeBaud, the greatest, deepest coordinator of all time in my opinion, comes in and he goes, we're changing everything. We're not going to do the stuff that we always do, right. And we bust, they tell them, we played two young cats and we played, we used to do a lot of fire zone, which is blitz, but you still have enough people to play zone. We didn't do none of that. We played man, we sent pressure and we was like, they're going to have to beat us one on one. And coach was just like, Troy and RC hit everything that move. That was it. That was a welcome door. It was a welcome. And so that was the, but that was the first time we ever did something that he had not seen from us. And we won. And so they just all, he was just so smart, bro, so ahead of the game. But with Aaron, yeah, I was just saying, so I understand how you felt with Tom. But you didn't have that same difficulty as far as him playing you so often with Aaron. So how was that different for you? You know, I remember, man, listening to Paper Trill, right? And I was like, this mother eff is in the zone. Yeah. I was like, no matter what he does, it just works. You like, you want to make a song for a chick? He got that one. Right. You want to make a song for the hood? Like he got that one. Right. That's what it felt like. I remember Michael Jordan hit the threes against Portland and then he was like, yeah. That's bro. And it was in my time. It was every time he played. And you got to realize, we had a number one defense in the league for five of my eight years with the best in the world, and we played in a Super Bowl. That's the defense that Coach Tomlin says was our best defense and we couldn't do nothing with him. But we were right there. There's a plane that I skimmed up for two weeks. And I was like, he's never going to see me. I was like, I'm going to pick this ball off. My kid is going to go to Disney World on the Super Bowl. I'm going to be the Super Bowl MVP. I'm like, this is it. It happens. Everything works like I said it was. It was the play I thought it was going to be. We was in the coverage. I thought we was going to be in. I told I to do exactly what I had to be telling him to do for two weeks. I take off to go get it and legitimately, like, this is a video of it, bro. Like, because obviously the Super Bowl, he probably threw it this high over my hand. Like he knew you were going to do it too. Like he knew I was going to. And he threw it right in front of Troy. And so the next time they got the ball, they called the time up. So he looked at me and he said, too far. I look at him and go, you laughing a lot, too, that's a lot of laughing. Hey, that's a lot of laughing, though, that's a lot of laughing. How did you respond to that? Did you ever, I mean, did you ever hit a quarter back? Yes, I got sacks. I never got it. I never hit a quarter back. Like I would have liked to. I mean, but like, but, but, you know me, I get it, I get it because like they protected it. You got to go about that. You know, I force fumbles on quarter back, but you never really, and when they get to you, when you can really hit them, they slide, they're protected, you know what I mean? So never like, but I would have liked to hit Aaron. Right. Man, I listen, man, finally, when you watch the days in their field. What's one thing about the game that excites you and one thing you wish you could you could go back to how it used to be? I think the thing the thing that excites me is the opportunities black quarterbacks have. To see the Jalen Hertz of the world, Patrick Mahomes, the Lamar Jackson, the Dak Prescott, you know the reason Michael Vick was outside of his extreme talent was so important to our communities, to our culture. Right. Was because he was different. That's right. Right. We had never seen someone that looked like him, played like him, moved like him, connected with us the way he did. That's right. Play that position in that way. You know, we had random, we had war and it didn't feel like Michael Vick. And you remember all the stuff that we were here together, you know, saying we kind of, we bonded and kicked it like it was the height of hit career, the height of my career, you know, saying when he was went down, man, kind of went down to, you know, I'm saying. So his comeback, my comeback, like we all, we are successes in Canada. Yeah. But there are other quarterbacks in the world that could have done the same thing, but you wouldn't feel that connection with them. There's a reason you did. And I think the opportunities that these young men have to not only be quarterbacks of this team, these teams, but faces of the franchise, that's, that's so, the game has come so far in that manner. I think the game still has a ways to go in some situations and some circumstances, but for that to be what it can be and for these guys to be able to change generations of their families lives by being leaders. Right. To be a quarterback, you have to be a leader, you have to be the face of an organization. So that, that's what excites me. I think the thing that I also told a whole lot of accountability. Yeah. But, but, but isn't that, but isn't what we've always fought for was to say that we have enough value and worth to hold that kind of accountability. This is true. I'm smart enough. Right. I'm seasoned enough. I'm experienced enough. Right. I'm nuanced enough because we all, they always try to make us this monolith and box us in. And we were trying to say, Hey, man, all of these things that you see leadership qualities and other people, we possess those two. Absolutely. And so I think that's what's beautiful about it. And the thing I would love to see, you know, go back. Honestly, bro, it's like, can we hit the quarterback at some point? Like, God, leave, bro. Like, if you took, if the quarterback throw the ball and I try to hit the ball and I touch his head like this, come on, man, I can't just give him different equipment. They need to give him flags. They need to give him like, that's the, you know how, you know how hard it is to get Lamar Jackson on the ground. If you scared to tackle him, yeah, to get, that's why Patrick, bro, Patrick Mahomes run like he running on hot coals and they can't ever tackle him. You know why? Because they can't hit him. Yeah, they scared of the penalty. But, but it's not the penalty. Them boys get, bro, they live in 60, 70,000 dollar fines. Damn. For penalties on the quarterback. Damn. I remember I got a 40,000 one for 80,000 foot in the quarterback. I mean, I had a tight end. Damn. No. To the NFL's credit. This is probably like my fifth penalty. Okay. You're a habitual. I was a habitual. Yes. I was a habitual offender. Yeah. But yeah, man, they, they, they take your money, man. Man, well, I appreciate the conversation, man. Thank you, bro. This is awesome, man. Yeah, I enjoy it myself. And then at the time, you know, you need me to come on your show, man. Oh, definitely, definitely be tired of me. Yeah, I don't got no problem with that, man. But here, expeditiously, we have what we call the word of the day. The word of the day is a word that describes either the conversation or the guest, you know, expeditiously. And the word of the day today is regenerative, regenerative, bringing something back to a healthy state. Now use that in a sentence. Ryan Clark introduced a regenerative strategy to rebuild the NFL's culture and views on player health. I like that. You like that, man? Yeah, I did that in both good ways and bad. Hey, man, it's almost like creating the problem so you can be hired to solve. Yeah, man, that's all right. Have you ever met a word you didn't like? Have I ever met a word I didn't like prison? We will take that, man. Thank you, but I appreciate you for coming. No doubt, no, it's welcome here, and this has been expeditiously. Yeah, my dawg say prison.