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[music] And now we're running through the translation machine. And that means this. Hello, Paul. I'm Chris here and welcome to a very special podcast celebrating, oh yes, folks, the 30th anniversary of Mars Attacks. Tim Burton's Mars Attacks came out in 1996. Oh God, I feel so old. And now it has been celebrated with a brand new 4K remaster that is going to be available in standard steelbook, collector's edition and digital available to buy now from Warner Bros. UK. Helena Harris here. Hello. I love doing that. That is so much fun. James Dyer is here. Hi Chris. Come on, give me an act. Why can't we all just get along? Do you not do an act, Jimbo? Yeah, I feel it would be culturally insensitive to the Martian culture and I'm not prepared to do that. He doesn't want to create a diplomat against it. No, no, you do not want to do that. We were going to invite, in fact, we did extend the invitation to the Martian ambassador to come along and be part of this, but he sent us a very lovely message that we couldn't decipher and it's sending a fleet. Even now I imagine some sort of party, some sort of podcast party, but that's great. But I have to say, okay, we're going to talk about Tim Burton's Mars Attacks now. It's 30 years old. Oh God, it's 30 years old. I really love this movie. It's one of my favorite Tim Burton films, but I saw this in the cinema. Oh God. House bells. Did you also see this in the cinema? I saw this in the cinema. Very excited to see it. I think I was reading Empire by this point in my life. I was hyped for this movie. I was really hyped. I was a Tim Burton fan. I had loved Independence Day earlier in the summer, so I was primed for another alien invasion movie and this could not be less like Independence Day. I had seen the trailer, of course, I had read about it, but even so, I was not remotely prepared for what I saw on screen. I don't think anyone was. I don't think anyone was either. I saw in the cinema as well, probably off the basis of the Empire of YouTube, to be honest with you, but obviously I am far too youthful to remember the 1960s top-straining. It's a Mars Attacks. It's a weird tonal shift for Tim Burton because it is. It's a gleefully anarchic kind of B-movie throwback satire, with the most stacked cast that I think at the time I'd maybe ever seen or heard about because you've got Jack Nookerson twice, who else have we got in there? Glenn Close and at Benning, Pierce Brosnan, Danny DeVito, Martin Short, Sarah Jessica Parker, Michael Jay Foxx's last leading role, I believe. Well, it's not a leading role. Well, on film. Yes. Well, I guess it's kind of an ensemble cast. Can you cast him as a leading role? Not really, I guess, because he gets off quite early on, doesn't it? Yes. Anyway, anyway, Rod Steiger, Tom Jones, Pam Gray, Larry Portman. Sorry, sorry. You're very delayed. You're very delayed. He's just said Tom Jones. Yes. And then you just carried on. Is that there was totally normal to have Tom Jones in a movie? Well, Chris, it's not unusual. Jesus Christ. That's the first thing Tom Jones says in this movie because Jesus Christ. It's brilliant. Well, one man can do, another man can do. But he, I think, is less shocking than Jack Plack, who he has checks notes about four in this film. Yes. Christina Applegate, Joe Don Baker. Yeah. So I rewatched this movie in preparation for this podcast and it is staggering the cast of this movie. You are, and I don't mean any disrespect to the person who's 20th build in this movie. But you get to, honestly, in the credits of the beginning of the film, the submissions are making the way to earth. And you see all the names of all the people who are in the film, including Tom Jones, the Welsh singer, the legendary Welsh singer. As himself, that is how Batman insane this film is. And it is about 20 people deep into the credits before I got to someone who is not a household name. Obviously there are people who were cast before they hit it big. But a lot of these people were a listers in their pump and the whole idea behind Tim Burton, who I can just imagine Cackling Gleefully all the way through this film. I imagine he has more in common with the Martians than he does with many of the humans in this film. Cackling Gleefully, as he bumps off a lister after a lister in some of the most grotesque and friendly, deranged ways possible. I watch this movie and I am so glad that this movie exists because I don't think it would exist today. I don't think you could make this movie today. I don't think a director of Tim Burton's caliber could go to a major studio and go, "I'd like $100 million, please, to make an all-star sci-fi action spectacle in which Martians come to earth and attack everyone and we fight back." Great. Sounds fantastic. Oh, and Jack Nicholson is going to play two roles. This is amazing. Where do we sign? Do you want more than $100 million? Oh, and everyone's going to tell you horribly. What? Everyone's going to tell you horribly. And the Martians are going to be the heroes of the film. Hey, not everyone. Not everyone. Sylvia Sidney survives Lucas. Thank you so much, Congress. I'm Greer and Big Jim Brown, both survive. Oh, yeah. Here's Brosnan and Sarah Jessica Parker find love. What they do find love. As they counted heads. Yeah. But it's lovely that as the ship crashing, rolls them together. It's like one little kiss before they die. One last little smooch. We're in a little green screen, aprons and leotards. I mean, even Daniel Craig, mostly waited until he had stopped being born before doing this Batman nonsense. This is a crazy, crazy choice to make for Pierce Brosnan. This was the year after Golden Eye. I know. This was released in 1996. He sandwiched this movie in between Golden Eye and Tomorrow Never Dies. And he is having the time of his love in his movies. He is so as he is so no perfect as well as that 1950s, 1960s, B-movie style scientist with his constant pipe. With his constant pipe and his, you know, his very calm, like let's be reasonable guys demeanor and his. Being wrong about everything. Oh, gosh. It's so good. It's so, so good. I just, yeah, it really is. It's ridiculously stacked cast, but they're all just having fun, I think. You know, Martin Short as the White House Chief of Communications. Just incredible. I came out this movie completely wrong. I think even though I was a Tim Burton fan, and I knew there was an element of subversion in, you know, you just have to look at Tim Burton film around that time. So, you know, this is Tim Burton. Still fairly early into his career. He'd made, obviously, Batman and Batman Returns. He had made PB's Big Adventure, which this movie has a lot in common with Tony Lee. He made Beetlejuice, Ditto. But, you know, he'd made Ebbers his hands, which has a lot of heart, a lot of whimsy, beautiful film. But he had just come off Ed Wood. And Ed Wood in a way, I think, is the biggest nod, the biggest indicator to what this film is, because what this film is, it's an Ed Wood film, essentially, but just one that's a hundred million dollars, where people know what you're doing behind the camera. But they try very, very hard to make it look like they kind of don't at the same time. But I came at it this wrong way, because I came at it as, yes, someone who loved Tim Burton, but Jimbo, I came at it as someone who was also very, very excited about the one two punch of Independence Day at Mars Attacks. And even though at Mars Attacks, we'd be a bit more off-kilter, I was still kind of, before I saw the film, infested in who would live and who would die. And I didn't realize, only when I saw the movie, the movie doesn't care, who lives or dies. The joy is in the journey, and the joy is in watching them die in horribly funny ways. Without doubt. And I mean this in a good way. There is, because Tim Burton's films have a warmth to them. They're very off-kilter. They're very kind of outsider centric, and they're very quirky and slightly skewed. I mean, it comes back to him, wasn't it? I think he had a, shall we say, oh, let's just say, what don't think he was one of the cool kids when he was at school in Burbank? You know, I think he always felt slightly disenfranchised in a part. I think a lot of his films see the juxtaposition of the strange and unusual and the kind of vibrant, technical normality of life. But all three of his films are like, there is a, there's a warmth to them. There's a kind of, not quite cozy in this, but there's something that feels very sort of amiable to it. This film, though, he delights in the carnage of it. There is a mean streak in this film, a mile wide, and he is having so much fun with it. And I think, weirdly, it stands apart from any other film in his, in his back catalogue, because of that. Yeah, I think, I think that's right. I think it's so, this is not a film that actually has sympathy for the monster, particularly. I mean, it's enjoying the monster. It's liking hanging out with the monster, but it's not necessarily saying, hey, Martians are just misunderstood. No, they are vicious little creatures. And they're not nice. And there is no sign of second thoughts or humanity to them, no pun intended. They are just on. to cause absolute mayhem, and just make themselves giggle, it seems like, and that is a very different feel. It's literally too inscrutting. It's literally inscrutting. Yeah, it is. And I think Ed would, you're right, kind of set him up for this, because I think that was the sort of reminder of how much he loved these B movies and how much he kind of wanted to scratch that edge. And I think he probably got away with it, because I think if you look back at the sort of '80s and into the '90s, a lot of the studio execs had those warm and fuzzy feelings about their own childhood, all those Steven Spielberg films, with sort of a '50s feel, you know, the stand by me's and the things of that world. It just, even back to the future, it feels like that's the kind of, that's the kind of feeling almost that they're kind of going for here in a very different way. It's just, but it's harking back to that era, it's harking back to those childhood memories, it's tapping into that same seam of kind of a weird nostalgia for a very, very messed up franchise, I guess. Even things like the way the Martian ships work, the way they spin, the way they fly through the sky is riddled and dove, it would, and plan nine from outer space. And originally, the Martians, the idea was that they were a stop motion. And you can see it still, there's a little bit of stop motion in their CG movements. And I like that, I like how, quote unquote, alien they seem. There is part of me that does lament the lack of stop motion, because I would, I think I would have given it an extra layer of other worldiness that might, that might really have worked. The, the ILM designs are very impressive for their time, but they are of their time a little bit. But that kind of works with the 50s, yeah, a lot of the, and this is, because it's kind of the first wave of CGI-centric films, and a lot of those films have aged really poorly, because the CGI has come on. I think this, it's so stylized, and it fits the tenor of the film so well, but actually I think this gets away with it really nicely, because if anything, it enhances the kind of slightly tweethro back feeling of the entire story, so, yeah, I like it. Yeah, because they always lived cartoonish, so they haven't aged, because they're not going for a full-of-realism. No. And that's, that's why it works, because you know, you can see, you can imagine the world where they were cel-shaded, like, you know, it is, as you say, it's kind of, it's got loony tunes in its DNA, so. Yeah. It's, it's interesting as well. I mean, it does have that kind of timberiness, burtoniness of the time, kind of a feel. You've got colline bloody atwood doing the costumes as well, like, this, the sort of star names continue into the crew, and so anytime, like, if you remember, the press conferences and the group images, everybody's in those sort of pastels that look like the houses in Edward's his hands, you know, that sort of very kind of, this is suburbia, this is safe, this is normal, and then you've got the Martians coming in and primary colours and messing it all up. But just like, even some of the details there, like, Sir Jessica Barker's fashion journalist, going to meet the Martians, wearing a hat shaped like a flying saucer, an entirely head to toe silver, including her underwear, as we see when, when her dog's head is so into her body. Like, just the detail of this, and the way that everything is just completely off-kilter, I think, is amazing. Cheesy, another holdover, of course, from Edward. That's true. I'd forgotten. Yeah. Of course. No one goers sweaters this time, you know? Yeah. Uh, because of Jack Nicholson aside, this is a pretty untanning defeat of, of course. Who gets fifth built, despite the fact he's barely in the film. This is largely a cast of Burton first-timers, isn't it? Yeah, I think so, actually, yeah. Glenn Close, and that Benning, who was, of course, going to be Catwoman, about her returns, but then had to drop out when she became pregnant. Yeah. Michelle Feiffer, I think, took the role. I can't remember. Does anyone, did that make an impact on any of you at a formative age, no? Don't think so. That's, I remember. Oh, no, wait. Yes. I remember that. Let me see. Tom Jones, definitely his first Tim Burton film. I think he's actually a Batman. Yeah, he mostly works with Scorsese, but he just made an exception here. Well, you know, it's not unusual. Hey. Hey. I just made that joke. I love it. I love that he has his thick, well-checked. I mean, he obviously does have it. Jesus Christ. Oh, there is a bit where he says, "I saw you fight in Cardiff Wales." Just like, we know where Cardiff is, Tom. We know where Cardiff is. Yeah, but you have to do it. I know. In Arkansas. We don't know this. And honestly, that, that, that, that tracks for a Welshman. (laughter) Cardiff Wales. Cardiff Wales. Cardiff Wales. They're always reminding you of from Wales. Cardiff Wales. It's one of two Wales. No, one of two Wales. Yes. There is also Lisa Marie, who was, I think, a Burton's girlfriend at the time. Also from Edward, of course. Also, Andrew and Sleepy Hollow, she plays the mum and that. But her performance is one of the things about this film that has stuck in my memory ever since that sort of wavy walk that she does. She's a Martian girl who seduces Martin Schortz and leads him to his demise. Yes. She's amazing. It's, it's a, it's a great piece of physical comedy and the fact that she's never really looking at him because she's basically not there. It's kind of a construct. Yeah. It's, it's so good. That scene is so funny. And Martin Schortz is brilliant in this film. And he, that scene sums up, I think, one of the themes of the movie, which is that people just can't see what's in front of their eyes. People in power are completely blind to the obvious, you know. And the Martian, one of the funniest jokes in the, the movie is, is the, the American president and my god, we'll get on to that in a second. This is first of this, this movie. But the idea is that when the Martians first appear, the Martian ambassador makes his, makes his, um, address over the, over the radio. And they're always, well, what do they like? Well, obviously in a highly, highly advanced civilization must be, uh, by, but just by definition, must be benign. I did a Martian ambassador appears with an evil looking sculptor of face, a massive domed brain. And he's going, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, in a way that is just pure evil and cackling chaos. And they're going, yeah, well, they all seem, they all seem to be fine to us. That's, that's good. Roll out the old welcome wagon. Shall we? Do you really run a mark and they kill everyone, including poor, uh, Paul Winfield? Uh, they do it again. They just cannot accept the truth that lies in front of them. A martian short is that she's clearly an alien, an alien man. What are you doing? Yeah, but he, like, she doesn't even say a word. And he basically carries the entire conversation because he assumes she must be into him. You know, it's, uh, there's a commentary there. I don't know what it's saying, but I don't understand how long there's no self-taxer at all. No, no. Uh, can we talk about, I mean, there's lots to talk about with this movie. Can we talk about Hosep first of it is? And, uh, this is a movie obviously came out in 1996. Oh, God. Uh, 30 odd years ago, this is a movie that, among other things, depicts the president of the United States of America as a well-meaning buffoon. I think would you say? Yeah. I think it's fair to say he's not necessarily a bad guy, but, yeah, I think that's something that we were more comfortable with doing in the 90s, because, you know, it felt safe to do so. Who's the president? Was this Clinton times? This is Clinton. Yeah. In the second Clinton administration. That doesn't feel like a Clinton standard. No, no. I don't think he's meant to be, I don't think he's meant to be Clintonian. Yeah. I think if anything, maybe a bit like Jimmy Carterish or, or even, you know, for their back, but I think the idea is like the, you know, this idea that the American, you know, super power status is a bit of a paper tiger, even at that point and it's sort of going well, you know, we talk, we do, we do anything we can to avoid going to war. Now right now, that seems like an excellent way to be, but I think back then, maybe there was a sense that this was a bit like wet. Well, it has, it has some cold war kind of stuff in it in its DNA and the war room in this is modeled off the Dr. Strange loved ones. 100%. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's definitely in there as well. But I very much enjoy the, the general who very much wants to stop wearing a lot of the bomb. Rod Stiger was very much strange, lovey and coded, I think, through the whole way through this. Not that it did him any good when he did fire the bomb and they just use it to, to basically blow bubbles. Yeah, as helium. As helium, yeah. Thank you. You're even high. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Yes, but, you know, the president is quite ineffectual. Congress is blowing up much of Sylvia Sydney's delight. So this is a main, again, let me reemphasize this. This is a mainstream movie released in 1996 by a major studio, Warner Brothers, who back to film in which the president was an ineffectual buffoon, Congress is blowing up halfway through. The Martians have to rick away with all sorts of American landmarks and British landmarks and just worldwide landmarks and, of course, our beloved Mount Rushmore. Yeah, yeah. And then as if that weren't enough. The first lady is killed by the American shadows in the White House. And then the coup de gras, the pierced resistance, as the Americans say, the American president James Dale in this movie played by Jack Nicholson. One of his middle names badge. I was wondering that as well. Well, yeah. The American president James Badge Dale, star of Iron Man 3, is killed by a assassinated by the Martian ambassador, who plans a fake hand in his back, which then unfurls and becomes a Martian flag. Now, that I'm saying is pretty suffursive. Yes. Yes, I think it is. It's that kind of practical joke, because the Martians are just pranksters, aren't they? The whole thing is it's just they're just amusing themselves. This whole thing is just a big old jolly for them. You're bowling on Easter Island, you know, possibly Mount Rushmore, all of that stuff. They're just having a great old time. When they knock over the Washington Monuments and the school kids start to run away. start knocking it in another direction to try and squish them. That's when you know that they're not serious about military objectives. They're just having a good tonight. They're just having a great time. They're tourists are here. They're living in the moment. Yeah, absolutely. But the art targeting authority figures as well. They are. That would always tickle me. But also like old people's homes, you know, and just a random trailer park. Yes, in a mech. Of course, you break out the big guns for the trailer park, not for not for Washington. No, for the trailer park. Perhaps we should talk about the Martians because the Martians are an endless source of glee to me. It's not just little things like, you know, which A-list celebrity is going to die horribly next. It's going to be Michael J. Fox. I didn't see that coming. You know, when he suddenly gets disintegrated and per se, Jessica Parker's left holding his hand. It's the Martians. The Martians are the stars of this movie. They are just a gleeful, gleeful delight. The decision to have them communicate only fire that language of theirs. Yeah. Ack, ack, ack. Famously. Of course. And I don't know if the new 4k Blu-ray reissue will have this, but you remember the DVD of this famous he had a Martian stop title track. Oh, yeah. So you could just have it saying, ack, ack, ack, ack, all the way through the film. And that is a joke that never stopped being funny. And I really hope it persists on this new version. It's so good. It's so good. Your favorite Martian moment or favorite Martian, do you have one? Oh, a favorite, I mean, the favorite Martian, you kind of has to be the kind of, the female Martian infiltrator has to be the favorite one. I quite like the supreme commander, but then he's, you know, not great. The Martian ambassador. Well, so here's one with the blue cloak. I'm on the red cloak. Yes, that's right. The blue cloak, I think, is the one who's really the supreme commander and the red cloak as the ambassador. I think so. Yeah. And all of the others just wear white front. Yeah, that was a, that was a choice. I think my favorite might be the one in the mech suit because he's just getting his, he looks like he's just on the step machine. Cross trainer, yeah. Cross trainer, yeah. He's just like punt away, just chasing this random pick-up track down the highway for no reason. He's having a great time. I like the ones that are kind of backing dancers for Tom Jones, that haven't a really good time. When he stops singing, then they start killing everyone. And again, they've like targeted the innocent backing dancers first, such a, such a terrible people, the Martians. I think, oh, it's so tough. I love, so many beats with the Martians. I love, I love when they blow up Congress. I love when the Martian ambassador goes to make a speech. And then he reaches into his pocket and everyone thinks, oh god, he's going to bring an array gun and kill us all. And then he doesn't. He just pulls out his speech. And then seconds later, pulls out of my gun and kills them all. Oh my god, he's so hilarious. But I think it's the bit in Sylvia Sidney's room just before the method of the Martians' demise is revealed. Let's just see the old lady listening to headphones. And they decide not to just shoot her. They bring in the biggest gun. Somebody find, and they're cool. They bring it in really so I don't want to surprise them. I'm pretty sure there's at least one moment where they look at the camera. I'm pretty sure there's one moment where they look at the camera. It just feels like they're constantly on the verge of breaking the fourth wall before they break a whole load of noggins. Honestly, I have so much fun with these guys. And it's weird how the movie does kind of hue to those disaster movie structures. Right? So we get the beginning with, which is very much a top-smars attacks, trading card image brought to life, which is the- - Call us on fire. Call us on fire. And then we see the Martians obviously, they're fleet flying towards Earth. But otherwise, first 20 minutes of this movie is character stuff. We're getting to know the characters. We don't really see the Martians. And the movie doesn't really hit overdrive until the Martians land. And disintegrate Paul Winfield. And of course, you know the fact that it's a- - Paul Winfield. - Well, it's a dog business. It's the dog. - Is it the dog? - It's a symbol of peace. It scares them. It scares them. - I think they were going to already. - I think that was just the- that was just essentially the starting pistol if you were. - They were waiting for their moment. - They're in advanced culture. They couldn't possibly be this barbaric. - No, what are you doing? - Naturally enlightened. - I also love the idea that Paul Winfield's character had gotten there by never saying anything for his entire career that anyone could possibly disagree with. You know, this is the, again, the satire coming through. But his whole thing of like, honey, I told you, my strategy of never saying anything would finally pay off. - Yeah. - And he's so pleased to be meeting the Martians. He's so pride of, you know, he thinks he's finally made it. And then not so much. - Is this your favorite Paul Winfield disintegration by laser moment in movies or do you prefer? - Defer. - The fact that this man had a career where we could make a list of moments where he's disintegrated by lasers, I think that's pretty impressive. I'll be honest, I can only think of one more. I didn't want to spoil too much for people who haven't seen Star Trek 2, the wrath of Khan. - Period. - But the Star Trek 2, the wrath of Khan, he is also disintegrated by a laser. Do you think that's better or worse than Mars attacks? What do you think? What's your favorite bit? - I mean, for his, I will say, for his sake, I think that the Star Trek one looked quicker and more merciful. This looks real painful. He has time to turn around and sort of go, "What?" as he is being disintegrated. Like, they are really nasty, nasty little aliens. - Oh, yeah, yeah. I like that because I like Jack Black dies, for example. You can see that he really is in quite a bit of pain, but yes, people seem to die pretty quickly. You know, and so there's no real rhyme or reason to what works. Oh, and speak to the subversive moments. Jack Black's character, Billy Glenn, waves an American flag in surrender, which is. - Yeah. When the clip pulls out, it's rightful. - Oh, boy. - Which is pretty amazing. I think we should shout out to Frank Welker, who is one of the most legendary voiceover artists of all time, and he voices all the Martians to my understanding. I don't know whether anyone else contributed any Martian voices. - I mean, there's not a variety of accents, I would say. - I think he's got to have a conversation with him. - Yeah, you've got to have tone, yeah, vary the tone and speed and so on. So this is an entire voice performance with just the word "acc." - Yeah. - I mean, that makes Vindy's look like he worked through his voices. - Yeah, that's incredible. - I'm Groot. You have three words to play with? - Ah. - Ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah. I love this movie so much. I think it's probably fair to say that it's not 100% successful, that there are some swings at Tim Burton takes it that don't entirely hit. Weirdly, one of those is the second Jack Nicholson. His second role in his art land doesn't land for me, and you're just watching the movie going, "Why is Jack Nicholson playing two roles?" - Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, the idea that it's a galaxy hotel and then he's cruelly taken away. I guess that's trying to make it a sort of satire on capitalism as well as everything else, but I agree it doesn't 100% work. I also think, I mean, there's characters who just just stop being in the movie for a while and then just turn up again at the end, Natalie Portman, just isn't there and that is then there again. - That's Taffy. - Yeah. - That's Taffy, the president's -- - Do you think it's going to be a sort of archetypal kind of an honor writer and Beetlejuice? - Yeah. - Gaulty, Burton, teenager, you know, Jenna Ortega is filling that role now and Wednesday and Beetlejuice Beetlejuice don't say the third time, he'll turn up, but yeah, she doesn't, she kind of loses -- - Yeah, she kind of comes up at the end to just sort of stand for the government being back again. - Yeah, being the only one. I mean, I have like a limited knowledge of the line of succession in the US, but I'm not sure the first daughter inherits the mantle when the president -- - No. - I'm pretty sure constitutionally there would be a problem now. - Constitutionally, like a lot of the others were in Congress. - That's true, there is no Congress. - Yeah, I think there's anyone left. I think she's in the left. - Yeah, there is no line of success. - And also, of course, as you know, James, they modeled the US Constitution and the powers of the president on the British monarch. So technically, really, it's not that much of a stretch that the promoter couldn't inherit. - I think I can help you on here. The line of succession is thus Jack Ryan, if he's not available, keep yourself in the land, and if he's not available, Natalie Bourbon. - You have it figured out. - That's how it works. - You forgot John Goodman from the West Wing, otherwise you've got it. - But he can't -- - I want you to go in John Goodman from King Ralph. - Yeah, that's fair enough. - I mean, he couldn't be the president because he's the king of England. - Yeah, I love that the Martians pulled the same thing on the French and presumably the whole of Europe. - Oh, yeah. - The whole -- yeah, yeah, they've just explained everything. It was a misunderstanding. And the American president going, "No, no, Jack, no." - There's two bits of cast in a movie that are, I think, worthy of, of acknowledgement as well. As well as the 455 A-Listers that are in this movie, because the French president is played by the film director Barbae Schroeder. Director of Reversal of Fortune. And the guy who tinkers with the Martian translation machine is the great Polish director, Yertzy Skolomowski, who also shows up in Avengers. The Avengers. He's the guy who is attempting to torture Black Widow at the beginning of the movie, and of course she has exactly where she wants to. And he's a great director of movies like Essential Killing, and I love that he shows up in films like this, and Avengers Assemble/The Avengers. Yeah. Also, didn't I see a Howard? Wasn't there a Howard? Yes, Rant's Howard. Rant's Howard, Ron and Clint Howard's father, who was no longer with us sadly, but yeah, he's very, very briefly, and the casting of this movie is so idiosyncratic, and so purely Tim Burton, I just adore it, down to the Tom Jones thing, which makes a kind of sense, because Tom Jones would be playing in Las Vegas, wouldn't it? Very associated with Vegas. Yeah, very, very much. So, and I love the movie ends with, ends with a couple of things, ends with Taffy becoming, I guess, the president of the United States of America, or certainly representing the government. Let's say, acting Goodwill Ambassador or something like that. And even then, it's kind of subversive, because all the way through the movie, it has represented her, the audience, as the voice of reason in this family, like she knows her parents are a bit stupid and a bit much, and a big ghost and vulgar. At the end of the movie, which she takes over, I guess, she's basically hitting on Lucas. Yeah. Do you have a girlfriend? Which again, perhaps shows the lack of judgment inherent in people in positions of power in this movie, because Lucas has his Richie is not, I would put it to you, a catch. He's a sweetie pie, and he has access to like only six day old doughnuts. He's an idiot. No, no, he has moral fortitude. He didn't care. He was going to get his grandma, and I respect that. You've got to love a guy who loves his grandma. Yeah, and if it weren't for him, they never would discover that Slim Whitman is the, you know, Kryptonite for the audience. This is true, but he thought Jimbo, they were making the international sign of the doughnuts. He is a doughnut. He's a little bit of a doughnut. I wonder, if Slim Whitman's yodeling was key to killing the Martians? Does that mean like the entire country of Switzerland was totally fine because of all the yodlers? Yes, Helen, that's what happens in Switzerland. Everybody yodels, because they don't have phones, so they talk, that's how they talk out of long businesses. The Slim Whitman thing is brilliant. It's obviously, it's a riff on the common cold killing the Martians in more of the worlds, but what an inspired joy set is. Oh, I do genuinely, I would give real money to have been in the room when this was first shown to the executives, and they realized what he had made for them, because let's be forget. So this is what two films I want to say after, Batman Returns, which he'd had some sort of creative wrestling with the studio over that, because it's dark, it's much more of him. He had more creative control in that film, and then Edward is a relatively grounded down-to-earth Burton film, possibly what the most grounded down-to-earth Burton film. And then to go straight from that to this dose of pure supercharged anarchy, I can just imagine you'd have heard a pin drop in that room. They'd have had no idea what to do with this, and I think it's fascinating because it obviously didn't perform as well as he would have liked, and I think Empire loved it from the get-go, but I think it was critically mixed. I think it's taken time for it to be kind of re-appraised as a kind of cult classic, because I think people do have real affection for this. And actually, in Burton's Uber, I think it stands out as one of the kind of boldest, most incredible things he's actually put together. It's wild that he even attempted to do this long enough. I said, I had this poster on my wall for years. I loved the poster. With all the head of the poster. Yes, that was a great poster. It's a great poster, and I think it's an incredible ticket. Yeah, and great tagline, and I feel like that, hopefully, over the years, helped people pick it up in videos, stores, and all the rest. So what happened? Why did this movie. I mean, it did okay, the box office. That's not pretend. No, it didn't. I think it was partly the proximity to Independence Day, where people maybe thought this would be that, and it very much wasn't. But also, in the open opposite, Jerry McGuire, was so, you know, unfortunately, it was knocked in seconds, but other people were showing the money to Jerry McGuire. It's very much so. No one helped me help Tim. Yes. I do think it was a weird one as well. Like, I remember it not being what I expected at the time, and I remember being a bit discombobulated by that and sort of taken it back, and I wonder if people who were less willing to just go with the madness just came out and give it horrible word of mouth, because I think this is a niche interest in a way that, you know, I think Tim Burton has always aimed to speak to the outsider, but actually, there's a lot of people who have at times in their lives felt like outsiders, and therefore they identify with these characters. Everybody's gone through a phase of feeling like you're on your own or people don't understand you or whatever, else, so you can identify with a Edward Scissor hands or whatever. And I think in this case, it's just so bonkers. It doesn't feel like, oh, this is speaking to me as an outsider, it just feels like this is upending everything I hold dear, and I don't know how to cope, you know? Black just waved in American flag and surrender. I also think this is Burton at his most butt nest to the point where I think after this, he got a bit gunshot. I think this he peaked. I think this is so him. This is so his sensibility. I think he felt like he could finally kind of go nuts, let rip and just throw it all out there, put it all out on the field, just do what he wanted to do. And I think he's been his choice since, don't get me wrong, his sensibility is still tangible, it's still there, it's very much present, but I feel like he's been much more cautious since this. I think everything built up to this film, and he went completely hog wild with it. And since then, I think his choice has been a lot more conservative. I mean, I think that's a little harsh. Yeah, I mean, he sticks for my hips, wasn't you know? Well, yeah, but I think there are a million reasons why that movie turned out the way that it did. But his next movie after this is Sleepy Hollow. Yes. And I think that's exceedingly Tim Burton. It's very Tim Burton, but it's much more traditional as a film than this is. I mean, true. I don't think anything else in his filmography stacks up against his four, just sheer ambition and just, well, of his carnage and weirdness. I guess that's true. I love Sleepy Hollow. I think Sleepy Hollow is wonderful. So these like that run through the 90s. I mean, Batman's a degree, but Batman returns to a much greater degree for me. Tell you what, Hell's Bells, we talked about the Rob Rhino run on this podcast a lot. Halfway, we talked about, you know, how between well, 82 and 90, 92 if you want to extend a few good men, you know, that's an amazing, amazing run. But look at Burton. Burton's early work, you're a grown, yeah. So PB's Big Avenger in 1985, Beetlejuice in 1988, Batman 1989, Edward Cicchahans 1990, Batman Returns 1992, Edward 1994, Mars Attack 1996, Sleepy Hollow 1999, and then that's for that run. And so that's an amazing, that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight movies in a row, all of which I think you can make an argument for are certainly cult classics. One of which re-invented the plotbuster wheel and redefined the landscape and changed cinema that we watch today exists because of that film. Beetlejuice, of course, is what we're talking about. And that's a hell of a run. And I don't think there's anyone in cinema, even today, even something like Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, I don't think there's another director on the planet who could make movies the way that Tim Burton makes them. Sometimes that's for good. Sometimes that's for ill, but I think more often than not is for good. And I, like I said earlier on, I applaud the fact that this movie got made. And I applaud the fact that someone is idiosyncratic and weird and singular as Tim Burton exists. Absolutely. He's one of our handful of directors, whose name has essentially become an adjective, right? Like, Burton Esk is such a distant, you know exactly what you're saying when you use his name in a film. And I think he established that style really early on. It's so wild to me that he started out at Disney as an animator, like working on the fox on the hound and things like that. I just can't even imagine how they fit him into that box. If Disney had been making better films during the 1980s, the landscape of film generally would be so different today because Tim Burton might never have left. John Laster might never have left. You know, Brad Bird might never have left. All these people who went on to change cinema might still be sort of working away as animators at Disney. Probably they'd still have made films because I think they still knew what they were doing, but it really is quite astonishing. And thank goodness he did leave. You know, he got to take things like Frank and Winnie with him and go later. Well, Frank and Winnie, I think, is the reason he got kind of quote unquote soft-fired, wasn't it? He put that out as a sure. And they were like, what the hell is this? We don't think you're a good fit for us. What the fox and the hound is going on here. This is not very Disney, is it? My goodness. Tim, I've just seen you leave a sketch of the hound. Why doesn't have wild, weary hair and massive eyes? Why is it wearing a black-on-white jacket, Tim? I don't know. It just happened. Thank goodness he did. We also got two of the greatest Christmas movies of all time out of it, The Nightmare Before and Batman Returns. But no, yeah, he is singular. And what's weird is it's singular even here, even though this doesn't look like most other Tim Burton movies. Like, if there's a look that you can kind of see running through, sleep your hollow and Edward's his or her hands and okay, maybe it's just Johnny Depp's face, but I think it's also, there is a certain more of a Gothic element. Yeah, and a twisted fairy tale call too. Yeah, and this doesn't really have that. It definitely is the twist though, and maybe that's what makes it feel pertany. It's the first of his movies, I think, that takes place in the real world. And I say that knowing that Edward took place in the actual real world, But you know what I mean, yes, there is a you know because even the design here is they're really over the top But it doesn't feel very burdened in there's no great elaborate constructs and there's no weird spirals and everything slightly off-kiltern weird. This is a sense of the real world Until the Martians come in yeah, I think there's a little bit that kind of again the color scheme is very that's that what really leapt To me when I watch it again last night that very sort of 60s almost kind of Almost kind of Doris Day comedy Doris Day Rock Hudson kind of like quite pastel-ish Brights and Everything is very pretty and very colorful and very like we're modern and now in hip And and then like crazy stuff happens in that in that world. I love it. It's so good So what you're saying is that those movies would have been improved of Martians that show up and have way through honestly I I rate Doris Day's chance against the Martians. I think she would have shouted at them enough That they would have run away from her. I think I think she could take them You really yeah, I do I do I Lamentified that this movie underperformed the box office. I looked it up, but it made you know in 1996 I was a worldwide cinema wasn't reported as much as it is nowadays So we don't really know what things were making around the world. So it's largely Well, it's something like box office mojo.com is basically just the us receipts for movies But it made roughly a tenth of what Independence Day did Last year and I lament that because You know, yes, it's taken the long slow train to recognition over the years But I would have loved to see a Mars attacks two or three because I think there is Real mileage in how anarchic and funny and Wild these characters could be you bring the Martians back. There's no limit to what you can do with them You know, it reminds me a lot of gremlins. They are the gremlins of this movie Which is just running a mark and could you have had a Mars attacks - that was absolutely as insane and fourth wall breaking and meta as Gremlins - I mean, it's much more insane than the original gremlins I'd say it's not a million miles away from the insanity of gremlins due just without the the meta stuff guys two words Legacy sequel. Oh my goodness gracious. Thanks again. What we attack Mars. Honestly. Yes. I you've got the title We we can do this thing. Yes, it's gonna be incredible team. Are you listening? I know you are Is this on hello, Tim? Tim we would love to pitch you Mars attacks again Hello, how do podcasts work? Can he talk back to us? I don't think so. No, no. I'm sure he'll text in a minute Just text in Tim text. Yes to 800 Mars attacks again. I'm like a cracking on that screenplay But yes, what is this time for you? You say that you think that this is Something that feels the most Tim Burton in many ways. So is this your favorite Tim Burton film? I don't think it's my favorite Tim Burton film because I'll always have a soft spot for the original Beetlejuice But it's definitely up there I just think for the pure anarchy and I remember seeing an a kiss. I knew you were gonna do that was literally writing for it I remember coming out of this and just being like I don't know what I've just seen But I absolutely love it and I bought the VHS of this the day it went on sale Wow, I really did. I was so excited. Hang on VHS. Yes VHS No, it was old school. It was old school. This was the 90s. If anyone needs him just gonna crawl into the corner and wait to die Widley, I just saw C. Robert Cargill be this green writer and author. Did you see Robert Cargill? I'm talking about this film this morning and Was was talking about how it felt like a fever dream. Oh, I can well imagine What are the chances? Yeah, that's amazing I yeah just to just the ending it's not just a slim Whitman thing It's not just a slim Whitman song. I cast my last ode toward the sky But I think the end of this movie the very end of this movie is one of the great cuts to black in cinema history Don't it might be my favorite ever cut to black. I think I think this is what they were going for with the Avengers at the end of Avengers Age of Ultron. Oh, and they got it. They they nailed it. Sure, but But this this is yeah, it's it's the blind. It's the dancing. I don't know what kind of bird it is It looks like a woodpecker, but it's the dancing bird that just does it for me with a head flipping back what's important in the terms It turns in to the kind of Disney fairy tale at the end that Tim Burton would almost certainly have been fired from having worked on it And it's so beautifully known and tongue-in-cheek and pissed takey and it is glorious as Tom Jones Yes from card of Wales Starts to Bob to to the the sound of it's not unusual that cannot be coming from anywhere except inside his own Company by woodland animals come by woodland animals and run to him as if it's bambi to the bambinine and it's just It's just amazing and as he's about to launch into his not unusual We cut to black. It's up there with the hard cut at the end of American world from London to Blue Moon Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba Boba I'm not gonna do the whole thing, but it's it's so good It's so good. Why why didn't people appreciate this movie at the time? I want names I want addresses obviously will spread GDPR, but but still show yourselves. We'll write some strongly worded letters. Yes. Yeah, this is this is top Oh, this is tops It's only top Fourteen Burton for me. This is top. This is top this top five. Maybe for three for me. Yeah, I'm having the same debate Like I think I think that man returns Does it and sleepy hollow just just edge it for me? Oh, okay. It's definitely. It's definitely maybe like might be third Okay, maybe in terms of directorial effort. So I think it's ahead of big fish, which I adore Which one's that that's the that's the Albert Finney. You're McGregor one. Yeah, not to be confused with big eyes No, which is not to be confused with all his movies, which are big eyes in them. That's correct. Okay Yeah, I think and I think it's ahead is but it's ahead of Batman. It's ahead of Beetlejuice and what ahead indeed little evil skull glaring eyes Massive massive heat massive Brent which indicates intelligence which must mean that they're benevolent James got a big head Thank you. I've got big head. It's very hard to find hats Indicates telepathic abilities You would not want to sit behind one of these guys at this and about which you wouldn't know not least be be doing that's all the way through Be like max Katie if they were watching love actually. I'll love that actually Oh boy, all right. I think they would talk in the cinema. You were correct. Yeah, they would definitely Yeah, they would turn around and Yeah, they would that's it. They would be hypocrites about the whole thing. Yeah, yeah Right, one last thing to talk about okay, the terrible fate of Muffy It's Eric Jessica Parker's dog. Oh, oh Poor thing, but Muffy fights back when she is her head is transplanted onto a human body She uses that human body to kick motions I'm not a good use and that's a good use well done Muffy all right Well, that is it for this Celebration of Tim Burton's Mars attacks in association with the 30th anniversary brand new 4k remaster release which looks absolutely stunning. It's available in steelbook standard Collector's edition and digital. It's available to buy now from Warner Brothers UK in all good evil and virtual stores Wherever you get your blue rays don't order it from the Martian so or you'll get a very very nasty surprise Right, all it remains now is for me to say goodbye to my two colleagues of such lethal cunning Goodbye James Dyer goodbye Chris for dark is the swayed that moe's like a harvest What that's the translation when they're trying to translate the modifer dark is the sway that moe's like a harvest Goodbye hill in a hurrah That's brilliant Frank Welker is in the room And it's goodbye for me. I am off to cast my lasso toward the sky and see what happens and make an international sign of the donut Thanks for listening see you next time bye-bye